All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.
And now your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
Welcome to Veterans Radio.
My name is Dale Throneberry.
I'm a CW2 helicopter pilot in Vietnam, the United States Army.
Welcome to Veterans Radio.
I'm really excited to have you here today.
We've got two great stories that we're going to be talking about.
Number one is Operation Song.
Those of you that have been listening to Veterans Radio over the years know that we bring on Operation Song veterans and songwriters.
Usually about once a month to talk about their songs and to play them for you.
What Operation Song does is that they, as I mentioned, they combine a veteran with a songwriter, they get together, and then one day they write a song and normally they record it right away.
And they're just great. They're really beautiful songs. They're heart-regionate sometimes. Sometimes they're humorous.
We'll see what goes on with ours today.
And the second half of the program, we've got a gentleman's name is Andrew Bezio, and he wrote a book entitled The Rifle.
And just a brief description of it is that Andrew went around the country talking to World War II veterans, average age, 93, 94 years old, to talk about what the Am1 Garin rifle meant to them during World War II.
It's a great story, a very compelling story, and I invite you to stick around to find out more about it because it's really heart-wrenching to know what Andrew was able to accomplish and talk into these really older gentlemen over the last couple of years.
But before we get into our program, first thing we have to do all the time is we need to thank our sponsors because we can't do this program without them and without you and our listening audience.
Number one, of course, is Legal Health for Veterans. Legal Health for Veterans has been a sponsor of Veterans Radio, I think, since about the beginning, 2004, 2005.
They specialize in veterans disability claims, so give them a call at Legal Health for Veterans at 800-6934-800-8693-4800, or go to their website that's Legal Health for Veterans.com.
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For more information, go to their website that's MVVDC.org, or give them a call at 888-237-8433.
You want to do business with the federal government and you are part of a veteran-owned service-connected disabled veteran-owned business.
I know that's a mouthful, but that's what it is. You need to be certified.
And this is what the organization does. This is what MVVDC does. They certify your business as an official, legitimate, veteran-owned business.
So again, give them a call at 888-237-8433.
The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
For more information about them, you can go to va.gov.
And you can find our website at www.aubarhealthcare.org.
The residential, home, health, and hospice care for veterans and their families.
You know, as we age, we need these services more and more, and this organization, the residential health care group, is able to help us answer some of those questions that we have as we age a little bit more and more and more and more.
And need more and more assistance and help. So give them a call at 866-902-5854 or go to their website as residentialhealthcaregroup.com.
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All right, so let's get right into our first guess for the evening.
And this is, as I mentioned before, it's Operation Song.
And as I said, Operation Song writes music, helping veterans, you know, talk about their issue, get their issues down and song and so forth.
Their motto is bringing them back one song at a time. And joining me on the line right now is the veteran in this case.
That is Roger Blackwood. Roger, welcome to Veterans Radio.
All right, thank you, Dale.
Thank you, Roger. Tell us a little bit about your background in the military.
I think I found you on Google, but I want to make sure it's the right one.
Well, daily, probably as I've never been wanting to put a lot up there, but some positions I did serve in, of course, there's things out there on Google.
I joined the Army in 1978. Well, I actually joined a March 78 delayed entry program, and then went active duty in September 1978.
Out there in the Midwest, in Nebraska, on the farm.
A couple of recruiters came in there, a little small school, and I said, yeah, I'll talk to them.
And as you know, the Army just started the volunteer force just a couple of years prior.
And anyway, not many choices out there in the Midwest.
Armored, go to a tech school. Anyway, I joined in 1978.
Armored crewman. And I ended up doing a 35-year active duty career and had a very good career of many places around the world.
And in many positions where I was able to enjoy my time in the service and actually impact and influence many others.
And in short, and I was an armored crewman, a tanker.
And out of that, 35 years, I did spend 13 years in the 82nd Airborne Division with the armored unit.
And deployed numerous times to Iraq.
The first one, actually in Desert Storm, Bosnia-Herskovina, the old border camp in Europe with tours in Korea.
And many of them in the 18th Airborne Corps.
In short, I had a great career, and I'm still standing and served with many good soldiers and a lot of great people.
That's the important thing now, you're still standing. Well, I guess that I found because I saw that you were a command sergeant major at Fort Polk, Louisiana.
And that was one of my favorite places I ever went to when I was in the service.
Yes, actually, I was the regimental command sergeant major for 2nd ACR.
And that's where I deployed initially an OIF-1 during the initial invasion, if you call it that, and did the first 15 month tour.
And that's actually where I got to serve with Sergeant Major retired Sam Rhodes, who runs Warrior Outreach and Operation Song.
And that's how years later, Sam invited me a few years ago to Operation Song.
And that's where I got to be a part of that. And as you know, as a command sergeant major at different levels, you don't open up to a lot of people.
You keep a lot inside. And Sam, I think, knew that, because he was in service together during OIF-1.
And he pulled me in to that, and I thank him for that to this day.
Well, you know, you obviously had a great military career, and then we want to thank you for your service, as they say, and all the dedication, obviously, that you put into that 35 years.
I can't imagine, you know, I was so anxious to get out after three and a half different time period.
So you ended up with Operation Song. And I'm reading the song that we're going to be talking about is, Was It Worth It?
And we've got the songwriter on with us right now as well. And his name is Will Nance.
And Will is a songwriter, performer, well-known songwriter.
I'm looking up your history, Will, and see that you had a number one song with Brad Paisley called She's Everything.
A lot of Grammy-winning awards and albums and all sorts of things. So Will, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Well, thank you, Dale. And Roger, how are you doing, buddy? Good to hear your voice.
Fine, Will. I think you all from there, so.
This is what I love about doing this program. We reconnect some people that had some, you know, some things going on for a little while.
And so, Will, how did you get involved with Operation Song?
Did I lose him?
Maybe. Welcome back to that. So let me get back to Roger here.
So, Roger, when you went down to, you met up with Will, was it Warrior Outreach Ranch? Was that where you went?
So I got there. I'm not sure. I didn't know really what it was all about.
And then Sam, I got down. Of course, I knew Sam, and that was very comforting. And there's also a couple of soldiers there, veterans, who had served with me in the regiment.
No, I have one. So immediately I felt comfortable. And then I found out what it's all about. And I got linked up with Will Nance.
And I will tell you, Dale, Will is just a great person. I never really, I'm not kind of a person to open up much, but when we started to write that song, Will's ability to talk with people,
it just gives you such a comfort zone that you kind of really opened up. And that's where I opened up to Will. And he kind of pieced it all together from some of my comments that he asked about my career.
And they came up with that song, Was It Worth It?
Well, we got Will.
Which I do have a story about what that meant, where it came from, Was It Worth It?
Let me hold on to that thought and come right back to Will. We were back on a line, correct?
Okay, can you hear me?
Yeah, now we got you. All right. So how did you get involved with Operation Song?
Well, you know, my buddy Bob Regan founded this organization. Gosh, I'm just track of time. How fast it goes by. Probably at least 10, 11, 12, 13 years ago.
And he asked me if I would want to be a part of this, you know, writing, writing with some victims and stuff. I said, sure, man, I would love to do that.
That's how I got started, you know, and I've been fortunate enough to be a part of this. And it's really a blessing to me as a writer to be able to do this, you know, and it helps a lot of people out.
You know, I've written with at least four or five World War II guys. And, you know, it's a blessing, but that's how I got started.
Bob Regan's a award-winning songwriter, and that's how I got started doing this.
All right. So, Roger, you sat down with Will at the Outreach Ranch and came up with your song. Was it worth it? You were just going to tell us a little bit about how did you come up with the title?
Well, Dale, I was a Northern Iraq command sergeant major, as the division sergeant major in 2007-2008.
And we had a lot of different forward operating bases out there in Northern Iraq. And one day I was visiting one.
And of course, the little small forward operating bases, dusty as can be, hot, dusty, and some soldiers had just came off patrol and they were in a striker unit.
So there was myself and about five soldiers sitting behind some T-walls, which are those cement protective barriers.
Eating MREs, they're rifles, and I will note they're rifles. And I do have a picture of my rifleman who was with me, took that unstage photo without me knowing it.
Myself and those soldiers, clean rifles, all dirty, and sitting across from me was Corporal Luke Runyon.
And you know, as a sergeant major sometimes we get to talking and stuff with soldiers. And he looked at me and I got that photo where he's staring right at me and he goes,
Sergeant Major, how long have you been in? And I told him at that time I was, I've been in the 30 years. I've been in the Army 30 years.
And then he goes, well, I'm thinking about relisting. I don't know. I've got a two-year-old daughter at home.
Whether or not to relist, he looked at me and goes, was it worth it?
And I told him, well, I can't answer that question for each or every individual. That's something you have to answer yourself.
For me, I told him yes. My service, it was worth it being in the United States Army.
I walked some more a little bit and then of course, you know, I move out. And that was October 2007.
I get back to that fob around November. I'm walking through the little small fob there and then he comes running and Corporal Luke running.
He had just re-enlisted. He wanted to see me and ran up to me and he was so proud and said, I re-enlisted, Sergeant Major. I'm going to stay.
And I said, of course, you know, great, great. Congratulations. Fast forward to February 2008, the casual report came in.
Corporal Luke Runyon with his fellow soldier, a specialist groper, was killed in action.
They were in a trench. They jumped into the trench and the surgeons, whatever we want to call it, put the name tag on those who were fighting.
And he got hit. He got hit in the leg area and he bled out, which means he was killed in action, February 2008.
And that hit pretty hard in that. The words always, to this day, they stick with me when he asked, was it worth it?
And his daughter is probably about 18, 19, what, 20 years old now? Probably somewhere.
And General Hurtley, my division commander, he got a copy of that picture and he framed it with the words on there, was it worth it?
And that's where that song came up as I was talking to Will. Was it worth it? And that came from Corporal Luke Runyon.
He was killed in action in February 2008.
So Will, when Roger told you this story, I'm guessing it just naturally flowed out of you, how much of that?
Well, yeah, I mean, Roger, he told me the story and we just put what he said to some music, you know.
It's all coming back to me now. I ranked with so many soldiers and stuff and I remember writing with Roger.
I remember Roger, but him telling that story there and I'm looking at the lyric of this song, it's like, wow, it's all coming back to me.
You know, like, like, like, yesterday, you know, it's like, but yeah, that's quite the story, man, very touching.
Yeah, when he said that, well, there's your song, we just, it's his song. I just, I just helped him with it.
Yeah, because, because so many of us have a talent to write songs and, you know, music and lyrics and everything along the line that goes with it.
Well, why don't we play the song right now for our listeners and for you.
And when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about the meaning of the song and, and maybe you guys could help me out by sending me the lyrics.
And Roger, I would love to get a copy of that picture to put up on our website, promoting today's program.
I can do that deal.
Okay. All right, so here we go.
Was it worth it?
Country boy at 18, never been on a plane.
Left the fields of the Midwest Plains.
Join the airborne. Junked out of planes. 800 foot journey out the door down to the ground.
As a soldier, traveled around the world, from the heat of the desert to the cold of Korea. Yeah.
Was it worth it? You got to walk it to know.
When it was time for me to leave, I got to say, I didn't want to go.
I think of Luke Runyon. Every time I turn around, that picture of us in the dust cleaner rifle's on the ground.
I was asking for an answer. So I gave him one. There's a stone with his name on it on a grave.
And all of them done.
He asked me, was it worth it? You got to walk it to know.
Was it worth it? You got to walk it to know.
When it was time for me to leave, I got to say, I didn't want to go.
Nearby are some Twinkies and the desert was a little taste of fun.
And the minute with your family was a blessing on that satellite phone.
Was it worth it? You got to walk it to know.
When it was time for me to leave, I got to say, I didn't want to go.
Yeah, when it was time for me to leave, I got to say, I didn't want to go.
I don't know. Was it worth it from Roger Blackworth and Will Nance? It's part of the operation song program.
I think it's part of the operation song.
They match up soldiers with songwriters and this was one of the results.
Just a great song.
Yes, Dale, brings back a lot of memories just hearing it again.
I'm sure that it does, especially when we know the backstory about Luke Runyon asking you if it wasn't worth it.
I'm sure that brings back a lot of memories for you.
Yes, it does. And the Twinkies and Nearby are just some of those words and the story with that. Yes, it does.
Will, you mentioned that you feel that this is a privilege to sit down with these veterans and write these songs.
I can't imagine how it really feels.
To be able to take these men and women's stories and put them to songs, I think I would take it as really such a privilege.
It's amazing and it helps these people. It helps these veterans and stuff.
I've seen it change lives, to be honest with you.
Something about the music, they told us some things that they haven't told anybody else.
That is definitely a privilege. It's a blessing to be able to sit down with these men and women and be a part of this.
I can't put it into words, to be honest with you.
This from a songwriter. There's a song there somewhere.
I want to thank both of you, Roger Blackwood and Will Nance from the Operations Song.
This particular one, it wasn't worth it. I encourage you all out there, all of our listeners out there to go to operationssong.org and find out more.
There's a lot of sample songs on there.
Maybe they can put on an event in your area to connect some veterans with their songwriters.
I know it's something that I'm trying to figure out how I can get them to come up to Michigan so we can do it up here.
Did I hear somebody say, oh, we'd be happy to do that?
We can make that happen, I wish.
I'll make sure I talk with the powers that be at Operations Song.
So Will Nance, Roger Blackwood, thank you very much for being on Veterans Radio.
Well, thank you. And Roger, good hearing your voice, my friend.
Oh, maybe we must have lost Roger.
So anyway, thank you very much, Will. We'll be in touch. Hopefully we can get you back on and talk about another song as you've written for Operations Song.
All right, so we are going to take a break right now and play our Medal of Honor segment.
When we come back, we're going to have Andrew Buzio on and he's going to be talking about his book entitled The Rifle.
You're listening to Veterans Radio.
The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in combat given a member of the Armed Forces of the United States.
There have been over 3,400 recipients of the nation's highest award. This is one of them.
Staff Sergeant Homer Wise's platoon was pinned down four times.
Each time Wise led a breakout of the platoon. Details after this.
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact legal help for veterans at 1-800-693-4800.
They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.
Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.
While his platoon was pinned down by enemy small arms fire from both flanks,
he left his position of comparative safety and assisted in carrying one of his men,
who had been seriously wounded and who lay in an exposed position, to a point where he could receive medical attention.
The advance of the platoon was resumed, but it was again stopped by enemy frontal fire.
A German officer and two enlisted men armed with automatic weapons threatened the right flank.
Fearlessly exposing himself, Wise moved to a position from which he killed all three with his submachine gun.
Returning to his squad, he obtained an M1 rifle and several anti-tank grenades,
then took up a position from which he delivered accurate fire on the enemy, holding up the advance.
As the battalion moved forward, it was again stopped by enemy frontal and flanking fire.
Wise procured an automatic rifle and advancing ahead of his men, neutralized an enemy machine gun with his fire.
When the flanking fire became more intense, he ran to a nearby tank and, exposing himself on the turret,
restored a jammed machine gun to operating efficiency and used it so effectively,
that the enemy fire from an adjacent ridge was materially reduced, thus permitting the battalion to occupy its objective.
The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio.
A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.
We're back here on Veterans Radio. This is Dale Throneberry, your host for today's program.
And joining me on the line right now is Andrew Bugio.
And Andrew's book is entitled The Rifle.
And it's a story about World War II veterans that Andrew chased across the country to have them sign this M1 Garin rifle.
And I'll let him talk a little bit more about that in just a second.
But let me tell you just a little bit about Andrew.
He was enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in 2006.
He served as an infantry rifleman during Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.
He did six years in a Marine Corps as a sergeant and also learned his degree from Suffolk University when he got out.
It seems like he was a glutton for punishment.
But after college, one of the can-do-do's served, so he was sworn in as a police officer in 2015, where he has worked there ever since.
Excuse me.
One of the things that he founded, which is this is a veteran veteran, I think.
He's the founder of Boston's Wounded Veteran Run, New England's largest motorcycle ride dedicated to severely wounded veterans.
The last 10 years, Andrew saw the need to assist soldiers, Marines, airmen and soldiers who returned from Iraq and Afghanistan with injuries.
Non-profit has been responsible for housing modifications, new transportation, financial support, basic living needs, and some of America's most severely combat veterans.
Andy's a policeman and a new father. Everything is happening here.
So Andrew, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Thank you for having me. That's a great introduction. I appreciate it.
Well, you've accomplished more in the last 10 years than most people do in a whole lifetime.
So let's start talking about the rifle. How did it come about around this idea?
Yeah, well, you know, it spawned from, unfortunately, my great uncle being killed in World War II.
And I'm named after him. So when I came home from Afghanistan, I said to read all the letters he wrote home, this young man who never got to live his life, really.
And I read all of his letters that he wrote home before he died.
And in one of the letters, how much he enjoyed the M1 grant.
So I went out and bought one. I wanted to feel what he felt. I wanted to hold what he held.
And I began to take the rifle to other World War II veterans and putting it into their hands and seeing their reaction to see how much it meant to them.
I can only imagine what, you know, in reading the book, and it was a real, actually, it was a real joy to read your book.
I love all the stories and will kind of try to talk about some of the people that you interviewed.
And, but this rifle, you know, the M1, I didn't realize I was called, is it a Garand?
M1 grand, yep.
Garand, okay. I knew that I just knew the word M1. My dad was in the Coast Guard, so he didn't have a lot of exposure to these things.
So this was, this was the weapon or the rifle of World War II, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was the standard rifle of that era of that time.
Almost everyone had experience with it, whether they shot it in basic training or carried in combat, you know, no matter if you were a cook, a medal of honor, a recipient, infantry, anything.
It was something that these veterans were able to connect with. It represents the whole war, this rifle.
So when you decided that you were going to go out and have some of these World War II veterans sign this rifle, who was the first person that you talked to?
I'm sorry, could you repeat that a cutout?
Yes, sir. Who was the first veteran that you talked to that you got to sign the rifle?
Oh, Joe Drago was the first. I know I, I thought you said first. Joe was my next door neighbor. He had held the rifle basically for the first time.
It had no signatures on it whatsoever. As soon as I put this rifle into his hands, he shot up and we started talking about the battle of Ocona for almost four hours.
And, you know, because I was trying to figure out, you know, here I was reading Andrew Bidio's letters that he wrote home before he was killed, but the letters end, you know, a few days before he died.
And then I figured, like, who else can I take this rifle to? Who else can I talk to that went through something similar that my uncle did?
And Joe had been living next door to me and with 92 at the time, he had really weakened it, gotten skinny and it was bound to his recliner.
And then when I went over his house and put this rifle into his hands again, it was like a gave him a strength of being 18 years old again.
He said, waving it around, smiling from ear to ear. And I said, Joe, please sign your name on this rifle. I always want to remember this moment.
And he did. He signed his name. We talked about the battle of Ocona and then now today, you know, seven years later, there's over 320 names covered all over this rifle.
You can't even see the wood of it.
I can't imagine.
You know, the book is called the rifle. It's by Andrew BGO BI GG IO.
Look it up, folks. I'm encouraging you to read it. Make a great Christmas present to, you know, your history buffs that are out there.
So you've been traveling all over the country doing this for the last what seven years you said.
Oh, yeah, coast to coast, different countries. You know, I wanted to represent the whole war in the rifle. I wanted to get men's signatures on the rifle.
You know, be 17 pilots, Tuskegee airmen, and he was him a vets battle of the bulge veterans ex prisoners of war nurses doctors.
Everything every every I want to represent every battle every campaign and I did as best as I could.
I just love the cross section. I mean, obviously you couldn't include all the people in your book.
But there are there are there are Marines in here there are there are army guys as you mentioned there are POWs there's ambulance drivers and everything across the board.
And you know, I was trying to think of the ones, some of the stories that I thought were really, I don't know, I guess, touch my heart more than anything else.
And one was toward the end of the book and that and that was the one Aubrey, I guess name was all I got to look it up right here.
I wrote it down and then I lost my piece of paper.
All my notes.
Yeah, they all they all taught me something, you know, meeting over 300 of these vets, you know, I had to pick 19 of the best stories from my first book, the rifle.
And after the it became a number one bestseller people demanded more they wanted more they wanted to hear more see more they.
And I wrote a second book with 19 more stories, you know, these stories are some that have never been told some of them that have been told but a different spin on it, you know, I interject a lot of myself, going to these veterans homes and bonding from one veteran to another
and me being an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran it's it's a story of the youngest generation generation of Americans veterans saying goodbye to the oldest and how to live a successful life after combat.
Well, I think the thing I got out of it was, you know, obviously 75 years ago, you know, the world was a different place.
And, you know, you talked with Japanese American soldiers.
The article I read this just this morning was Robert Andrew and he was the patents last Panther, and he is a black soldier and talking to you know it came from.
Alabama, and, you know, just the, the world that he suddenly was, you know, thrown into was so different than small town Alabama for a black soldier.
And how he was.
He's one of my heroes I got to see him actually on veteran day.
This last verse veterans they won't buy I mean, just amazing I've been trying to actually even get into France to show him exactly where his tank was destroyed.
He's one of those guys that won't go back and relive that but his stories he was one of the first black tankers to ever see combat in the United States military history.
And that's huge and his story. Oh my God, I mean between white infantry guys protecting the tanks and the black tankers protecting the white infantry men.
I mean it was a story on how to end racism quickly because these men fought for each other and died for each other.
Yeah, absolutely and he was, you know, and actually, when he was going through his training, I think it was going through his training at Fort Knox is young lieutenant was Jackie Robinson the baseball player.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
Jackie Robinson was a famous gentleman in that unit. He did not deploy to combat with those men. He stayed home and trained the other tankers. But Robert remembers them well actually.
I, again, the stories are great and how you were able to pull these out of him because it was the first time that that Robert Andrew told his story I think allowed was when you were talking with it because you mentioned how his family was around him.
Mm hmm.
He kept quiet about his, his conditions, you know, basically, they didn't know anything about him and he kept it to himself until I showed up with a rifle in their home.
I can't imagine. Did you have any trouble not getting in to see some people that you wanted to see?
No, they, um, yeah, I mean, most veterans were receptive if they didn't understand what we were doing, then I would, I would send them letters and, and mail and show them photos of the rifle and, and they said, Oh my God, what a project I'd love to be a part of it come on down.
I would I can.
I wouldn't.
I think the idea of these people in their 90s.
And you mentioned one of the things I've always been amazed at at World War two veterans is every time I've participated in a parade or gone to, you know, both of July parade or something along those lines and you go past the, you see the really older veterans.
And they go by with a flag raising, you know, being carried in front of them, they all stand up, even if they're in her Walker suddenly they get straight, and they salute it, you know, they snap a salute up.
And you can tell how proud they are of what they had been able to accomplish. I just think it's, it's wonderful. You know, obviously, what you've done to encourage these people to tell their stories.
Thank you very much.
So, as I mentioned, you know, you talked to Robert Andrew, I thought he was kind of cool.
Steve, and I'm throwing these names out. I know you have 300 of them that you talked to us. I'll try and give you a lead into it.
But tell me about, if you can Bob White, he was part of the 17th airborne in the Battle of the bones.
Yeah, Robert White, he just passed away last week actually at age 100.
He was a magnificent fellow. He was in a 507th Parachute Infantry Regiment had never returned to his drop zone in Germany had never returned to the Battle of the Bulge sector where he fought and I got to return with him and see about this, you know, this little known
infantry unit, you know, the 17th airborne was disbanded after World War II. A lot of people won't realize that they also jumped over the Rhine River and into Germany during Operation Varsity.
A lot of the major airborne jumps of the 101st airborne, the second airborne are often focused strictly on Normandy and Holland and the forgotten jump they call it was Operation Varsity.
And to be bringing Bob back to his drop zone was amazing and we actually erected a monument together for the 17th airborne in Germany, which one never existed.
You've been really involved in a lot of these monuments.
I think I've talked about the story about Bob White. I don't know, I guess it was tongue in cheek a little bit. He wasn't really jealous of the 101st, but he says they got all the glory. Nobody ever heard about the 17th.
That's the truth. Yeah. He said that and then when we got to the drop zone, of course, there was not even like a monument or memorial to these men who took 2000 casualties during this operation.
I think that those things are the most amazing to me is the number of casualties that these men suffered.
You know, not being around of course during the 1940 myself either.
You know, to take a town they would lose two to 500 or sometimes even more than that, not only kis but wounded.
To me, it's just mind blowing. I can't imagine the trauma that these men and women, you know, went through just trying to get up through Italy or get across, you know, the Netherlands or Hollander Belgium or all those things that we heard about in our history classes, but not really heard about.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, sure. It took me to get out there and meet all the events to learn about all the different units.
There was, you know, there was one there was a Steve.
I think his name is he was an ambulance driver and he got caught up in a POW situation where the Germans, you know, executed all these. This whole group of army military people.
Yeah, the malmite massacre. Yep.
He was a survivor of it.
No, how did he, how did he talk about his story? What did he tell you?
Oh, well, you know, he, that was one of the biggest war crimes against us soldiers during World War two.
Germans had nearly killed 100 men who had surrendered in a field.
He laid there and played dead as Germans were walking around and shooting other wounded and dying soldiers.
And after several hours he got up and ran to the woods and they put him right back into circulation right back into being a soldier on the front lines again after he experienced that traumatic incident where they just were slaughtered in a field by machine guns.
And this guy went his whole life without, you know, I'm sorry for himself or anything like that, you know, he just he kept going and he was a huge inspiration.
And I, yeah, I mean, just the idea of always these men that were, I don't know, you know, they would get wounded and then the next thing you know they're back, they're back on their fronts, you know, it's because it wasn't bad enough to be sent home.
You know, they, what does that do to your mind.
Right.
Think about it.
Yeah, they, they were able to prevail out through a lot in their lives and that's why I love this story is you know I want younger veterans to see this and know that they too can can make it to the finish line and grow to old have a family and career go to college have
work after going what they went through.
Well, I, yeah, I think that that's, that's really important is for the younger veterans to realize that, you know, these older ones that are out there went through, you know, very similar situations came out the other side and you know and most of them were able to make a life for themselves.
I think that's one of the transitioning from, you know, the being in combat and being shot at or maybe even being wounded and so forth, and then coming back and just trying to, you know, ease your way back into civilian life is so difficult for so many people.
Yeah, it is. And some people can overcome it others can't but I think taking a page of these guys chapter these guys live is a good way to learn.
I think I think it a great history lessons. I was interested in talking a little bit about Al, which are really is another one of your people from Massachusetts.
Yeah, Al, yeah, Al lost his leg in Italy when he was 19 years old, got blown off and I took him back to show him where he lost his leg.
75 years later, I brought him back to Italy. He had never returned and brought him back to the vicinity, lost his leg and showed him the grave of the squad leader, his squad leader that was killed by the same explosion that took his leg.
And man, he was also another inspiration. On that trip I paired him up with another Marine, actually, who lost his leg in Iraq. So the two of them together was just really something amazing to amputees from two different wars 75 years apart.
And that's what I was really excited to talk to you about was this particular veteran and you know the Iraq veteran as well, because you have a photo in the book the rifles were talking with Andrew.
And the book is entitled the rifle I guess this is volume one of a series and it looks like it's probably going to be but you have a nice really nice picture of them two of them sitting there and you can see both of their prosthetic legs there and I'm sure that they must have bonded just over that.
Oh yeah totally.
It was so unique. You mean that photo will probably be famous one day. I was many of your photos I think would be would be will be famous someday.
It's just, as you go through each chapter in here.
Andrew has a picture of the veteran holding up the rifle. And you can see how just don't know it just brings us them. Most of them it brings back an extra shot of adrenaline I guess be the word I'm using for because these folks are not young at all.
No they're not. I mean, now the youngest World War two veteran really, you could be about 97 right now.
And that's 18 during the war.
I don't know. I don't know. It's it's it's the thing I found really cool was the way that some of these veterans would we refer you to other veterans.
Yeah, they took so many of them still remain friends with each other or having coffee or going to their local VFW together and you know I'd visit one guy with the rifle and he said you gotta go see my friend George and my buddy from my reunion so my cousin who also jumped into Normandy.
I was this was so many cool stories like that that meant because these guys didn't touch each other and getting harder and harder for these men to find one another.
And I was going to ask unfortunately because they're disappearing I'm sure rather rapidly.
I was, I was, I was looking at the story of the Japanese American, when I got to find his name here now again, probably recall it, but he was talking about his family did not get put into the.
In tournament camps that's what it was.
But that here he is.
Lawson, Lawson Sakai was the 442nd regimental combat team.
And when you interviewed him he was 95.
And he was talking about that he said he wasn't angry still doesn't hold a grudge.
He was at a reunion of Japanese American soldiers, and their children were coming in.
You know, grandchildren were coming to find the stories about their relatives and so forth.
And you know this whole unit, just like the you know the black tankers, you know going up through Italy and you know growing across France and so forth, having to prove that they were true American soldiers.
It's the truth they ended up being the most decorated infantry regiment of all time.
These Japanese Americans, and it's true to this day the 442nd regimental combat team and Lawson himself had three purple hearts, two bronze stars.
I mean, he was just what a guy.
I had to write about him I knew when I first met him because his story was one of the toughest and most powerful ones of overcoming severe racism, and having to be put through a cannon fodder, you know through Italy, fighting up the gauntlet up those mountains, and being one of the most heavily decorated men in his regiment.
I don't think many of us are aware of, you know, these battles, you know, in Italy because you know these were occurring at the same time the D day occurred and of course, that was the, you know, that was the one that got the big stories at the time.
And many of these men in this story is talking about some of the generals and you know general officers that they were under that, you know,
had really strong egos, let's put it that way, you know they wanted to be the first in Rome where they wanted to be the first in Paris and they wanted to be the first in Germany.
And they just kind of use the kept pushing these, these men, you know, continually pushing no breaks in the battlefield I mean some of these guys were in, you know, in the field for weeks at a time months at a time, without a break.
And I don't know how they did that, I wish I had read this book, you know, 50 years ago.
So I could have figured out, you know, why, why certain friends of my family or my dad, you know, and so forth, acted the way that they did.
And even we were talking the other day with some friends of our teachers, when I went to high school back in the 60s, the vast majority and probably were a World War two veterans and we didn't even know it.
Oh yeah, even even when I grew up in the 90s, you know, taking about these old men and saying you know they can not really know who the other sides being a little kid thinking like look at that old grouch or that old guy or, you know, and man,
I wish I could go back in time and talk to more of them.
Why didn't you say you mentioned that you have other other volumes of this book coming out or are they out already.
Yeah, the rifle to rifle volume two came out about two months ago actually.
And it's been doing good became a bestseller as well and a little bit more controversial and a little bit more stories of guys who had rougher times coming home and adapting to civilian life.
Some of them ended up in jail, some of them became alcoholic, some of them were liars about their service and I was able to include those men's story to that sometimes the great generation isn't perfect.
You know, there's a few embellishments out there we did a story about a mellow honor recipient a couple of months ago, that evidently had embellished his, his events.
We all go into that. But it really happens in the fog of war. Sometimes you don't remember what really happened.
Right.
So, so we've been talking with Andrew BGO, the book that we're talking about right now is entitled the rifle and it could be found pretty much everywhere. I know it's on Amazon and major bookstores and so forth out there.
And now that we have a new second one rifle to and I'd love to have you back on the program after I get an opportunity to read that one.
Thank you so much. I'd love to.
I think I really do appreciate what you are. You know what you've done as a young veteran, not only the books that you're writing but also your nonprofit.
Can you just talk about that real briefly and give a little plug so maybe there are people out there that would like to help you out financially with that one.
Absolutely, you know, for the last 13 years I've been helping my fellow Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who came home with severe serious wounds.
And I do a motorcycle charity ride every year in Massachusetts. It's one of the largest about three, four thousand motorcycles.
And they fought. We ride.com. And you can see on there how to donate or support the cause or start a local charity ride in your state.
They fought. We ride.com. And my book is the rifle and it can be found at Amazon or on Facebook, Instagram, the rifle.
And I appreciate being on the show.
Thank you. Thank you very much and be careful with your real world. Please.
Thank you. God bless.
God bless you. And you, Andrew, the author of the rifle. He's also a full time policeman.
All over the country finds these World War II veterans that have an opportunity to open up and tell their stories that we've, you know, this is what we do here at veterans radio as well. We, if we don't tell their stories and they disappear and we never know about what Uncle Joe or Jim or Bob did, you know, when they were younger,
not everybody, you know, not everybody at 90 years old is an old guy.
You know, they're still 18 years old in their brains. That's what they want to be. And that's where they were when they were at their finest.
So I encourage you to read this.
Talk to veterans, participate in the veterans history project. You're a veteran listening to me now. And you've never told anybody your stories.
Make sure that you go to the veterans history project.
And record your stories. Wouldn't it be great to have your grandchildren go in and say, Hey, Uncle Joe was, he did what?
Holy moly. See, you never know what happened with these.
So do that.
Ben and women are in the military now increasing numbers. And their stories are out there just as well.
So anyway,
tune in next week for veterans radio. Jim Fauston will be here. Have a great some more great stories for you. We'll be back in two weeks to talk with Keith King, the National Veterans Business
NVBDC National Veterans Business Development Council to talk with you about businesses and how you can become a good veteran business owner.
This is Dale Thromberry for all of us here at Veterans Radio. Until next week, you are dismissed.
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