All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.
This is Veterans Radio.
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I am Jim Fossone.
I'm the officer of the deck today.
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We want to welcome to VeteransRadio today, Navy Veteran Jenna Carleton.
Jenna, welcome to VeteransRadio.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, we're going to talk to Jenna.
She is also known as the Millennial Veteran.
She is active on all sorts of different social media programs.
Facebook, she has a group.
Instagram, a big group.
Does VETCHETS live on Instagram?
And she has, among other things, a monthly opinion piece and task and purpose.
She recently wrote on the recruiting crisis, and that's particularly caught my attention,
and said, I got to talk to Jenna and get the view of a younger vet.
Now let me set this up, if you will, Jenna, and you can correct any mistakes I make.
You were a nice Wisconsin girl graduating from high school, and you thought, I should
join the Navy.
Yes, yes, pretty much.
I had an uncle who served, and he really talked me into it, said, you know, you're going
to see the world, you're going to get out of Wisconsin, and I was sold.
I was excited to have a new experience.
So she served four years in the United States Navy from 2013 to 2017, got out as a petty
officer second class.
You were, and I don't think I've ever spoken to anybody who was an AeroGrapher's mate,
and you deployed on the Harry S. Truman.
Tell us what you did in that capacity.
Yes, so, AeroGrapher's mate is weather meteorology, oceanography.
So I was trained as an observer, a weather observer, so basically I told you what was
going on now, and that's pretty important for pilots, you know, they need to know where
the ceilings are at for cloud bubbles, what the wind speed's at.
So I did a lot of briefing pilots on the carrier.
And that part of getting out of Wisconsin was to see the world, so did you get a chance
to do that?
Yes, I did.
Yep, on that deployment we went to Dubai, we went to Greece, we went to Croatia, and
we went to Bahrain.
So I definitely got to see a lot of the world, and it was a lot of fun.
You are not in Wisconsin anymore at that point.
No, far from it.
I always get a kick out of folks in the Navy, because generally there are folks who were
not on the ocean's edge.
You know, somebody from Iowa or Nebraska or Illinois or Wisconsin makes it to the Navy.
Now, at least Wisconsin, you say, well, I had a great lakes, I knew a big water was, but
so it was an uncle who talked you into this.
You still talking to him?
Yes, oh yes.
Well one of the other things that you were able to do after the Navy, I assume, is use
your GI Bill and you picked up your bachelor's degree in public policy from St. Mary's College
of Maryland in 2020.
Am I correct in that?
Yes, yep.
And as part of that, I think you get an internship at the House of Representatives, which probably
helped ignite your interest in public policy.
Yes, it absolutely did.
And that's where I got to really work with a lot of the public and a lot of veterans
and hear a lot of, you know, how policy is, how the sausage is made, as they say.
Yes, some of that stuff you don't want to see because it's not very pretty.
We're going to back up to her time on the carrier in a minute, but she's currently working
at Naval Air Systems Command as a government employee.
You've been doing that for a couple of years there.
Do you want to explain briefly what that role is about?
Yes, so as you can see, the politic route did not work out, so I ended up working back
for the Navy as a civilian and I currently do contracts.
Okay, well, I have to back up to this story because she told it to me before we got started
and said it was okay to bring it on the air.
So you met your future husband while you were on the Truman Dinshah.
Yes, I did.
I met him in our last court and this was in Greece and, you know, we were all dressed
up for a friend's birthday and me and one of my friends, we stepped out of the bar to
get a breather and we went down to another quiet bar.
And as soon as this guy walked in with us, you know, he said, I'll go somewhere quieter
with you guys.
So we walked into this other bar.
He walks in with two pretty girls and this, it was a British football team, soccer team,
and they whistled at us girls.
And my future husband, you know, he said, hey, you can't do that to them and they just
jumped on him and he got knocked out.
He was bleeding and then his friends and came and took him away because if you served in
the Navy, you know, there's such thing as shore patrol.
They're like police officers that are dressed as civilians and they report on anyone misbehaving.
So they took him away.
So if you want to get caught.
And then I never got his last name.
So I didn't see him the rest of the deployment.
And then about six months later, we were reunited at a going away party.
I saw him there and we started dating ever since.
Well, there's a five year old daughter to that's very thankful that you were on the
Truman in Greece, observing a bar fight so that you could connect with your future husband.
And unfortunately, all too many folks who've been in the Navy or any service who've been
away for out on ship for a long time, you get into port and you maybe drink too much
and you got a lot of pent up energy.
So I'm sure all of that was part of that evening, but it all worked out, didn't it?
It was meant to be, I guess.
Well, you've taken those experiences from your Navy time and your time on the house
and thought about how veterans of your generation are being treated or not treated, heard or
not heard.
And it really has launched you into this passion of being a veteran advocate.
As I say, the millennial veteran is the name that you use on a lot of these sites.
Talk to us about how that evolved and how it brings you to where you are today.
Yes.
So like I mentioned, I did my internship and then when I got out, I joined the local Legion
and I realized that I was the youngest one by about 20 years, me and my husband.
And so when we come in, they would call us the millennial veterans.
Oh, the young people are here.
So it just got me wondering, where are all the younger veterans?
I live near a base, so I figured there would be more out and about or wanting to be a part
of something like the Legion.
And then as the pandemic hit, I started reaching out online to other people that have gotten
out and just trying to share advice on benefits or schooling.
So yeah, that's kind of how I started my online thing, trying to get younger veterans involved
because I realized a lot of them don't realize they have a whole community and they have
benefits that they can turn to.
A lot of veterans like to isolate themselves.
It's very easy to feel you're the only one in this.
Nobody else is going through what I'm going through and nothing could be further from
the truth.
And part of that is about 30% of veterans have some sort of disability rating from VA,
which means a big group of veterans, 70% or so, don't have those situations arise in
their life.
But it's really easy if you're in that 30% group or otherwise struggling in transition
to think, well, I'm the only one who's never had a job or I'm the only one who hates the
job that I've gotten.
And as you've talked to literally thousands and interacted with thousands of younger veterans,
what are some of the themes that you hear?
Yes, yeah, I hear a lot about isolation.
I hear a lot of people who delay getting help.
And you know, I think every generation, all generations, we have the same problem since
war has started really coming back re-entering into society, having injuries, either physical
or mental.
But I think what changes per generation is how you want to seek care.
What do you want to remedy all these old age problems?
And I think a lot of younger veterans are more open to mental health.
And right now the VA just doesn't have that mental health care that matches the demand
in the community.
So that's something I've seen that's been kind of a bigger problem with younger veterans.
One of the also differences between the Vietnam era where I fit myself into in today's veterans
is the increase in women who have served in the military and then become veterans.
Any additional themes that you've heard from that cohort?
Yes, that's a great point, Tom, because the veteran community is becoming more female
and we need the VA to also reflect that.
But yes, and we need to make sure women feel comfortable in these spaces and just having
more women involved will help change that.
Yeah, we now have more women in leadership positions, Secretary of State commanders of
the services, that sort of thing.
So it really is hopefully changing and clearly for the better.
As you've talked to folks and thought about these issues, it kind of led you to write
this opinion piece on all of the services that are missing the recruiting goals and
you can't keep doing that and have national security.
So Jenna, I guess I wanted to get your views on the recruiting problem that the military
faces and what kind of compelled you to write the opinion piece that you did on this issue
from the point of a younger veteran.
Yes, so I went out to the military influencer conference and they had a panel which I attended
and it was the VA Press Secretary.
There's a lot of big names up there, the president of MOA, and they were talking about
how veterans should share their stories and be involved in helping the recruiting crisis,
which it's a great sentiment and I wish it was that easy, but I couldn't help but thinking
about sometimes the hardest part of serving is the aftermath and the lifelong injuries
that our veterans are living with and sometimes that's the most painful part is continuing
your life after service with these life altering injuries and not being helped, which you were
promised to be helped through the VA.
And so I kind of took the opinions of when I worked in Congress and I would get folks
of the Vietnam era calling in, you know, needing help but not qualifying due to different parameters
and then also the messages that I get daily from people who have served, especially women
who have had MST and just all those opinions were swirling in my head and I was like, I
got to say something, you know, I think a lot of us would love to advocate about the
great experiences but also we can't just ignore the pain that it's caused.
So that's really where I was writing from.
And you see this reflected in the studies done by the Rand Corporation or IAVA just
came out with a survey of women warriors this summer and they got a chance to talk to Alison
Jaisalow, their president and CEO over that.
You still have 50 or 70% depending on the stats of people recommending, you know, would
you recommend to your family members, friends that they consider joining the military?
And I'm kind of surprised by that number sometimes because it's not for everybody.
And particularly, you know, just coming out of a 20 year war, hopefully we're not going
back into anything.
It's a different type of service if you're not in a war.
But so many people don't serve at the front line.
Everybody's got these different experiences and I suppose I'm interested if you think
overall younger veterans would be much lower than 50% approval of or recommendation of
going into the military.
Oh, yeah, I would be curious to know that as well.
Especially for, you know, younger veterans are having less deployments.
They're not going to have that combat experience as other generations.
But still, I think the most harmful thing is what I hear the most is just the culture
of the military.
And I've had people reach out to me that have served of all eras and say, yes, you know,
I've seen such a shift in just how military leadership is.
And I think that's one of the biggest pain points is just that disconnect between leadership
and, you know, creating a culture of, you know, being able to reach out for help or
just better communication all around.
The military is a big organization.
If you work for any big organization, communications from the top down is always a challenge and
seems like it always gets changed as it keeps working its way down.
But one of the things you said in your opinion piece was that you felt many of the younger
veterans were given unrealistic expectations of what our military service would be like.
Are you referring to what the recruiter told you or the image that, you know, your uncle
or Hollywood or something else put in your head is about how this would be in the Navy?
I'm referring to all of it.
Just how society portrays service.
Even even recruiters, of course, you know, they're going to tell you anything to get
you to sign.
Yeah, you can't believe the thing they tell you.
That's what I tell everybody who has.
Take whatever the recruiter says with a grain of salt.
Oh, absolutely.
And, and definitely Hollywood, you know, they put this image.
You're doing a heroic thing.
You're going to be changing the world.
You know, when I joined the Navy slogan, what they were pushing was a global fight for good.
So I really thought that I was out there, you know, maintaining that.
And I think a lot of us are kind of fed that image.
And then when you join, you realize, okay, you know, maybe America's not the shining
hero that I thought it was, you know, I witnessed a lot of terrible things the military accidentally
did to other countries.
And, and you know, you're just putting things in perspective in that way, which is, you
know, it's kind of hard to come to terms with.
Some of this is the difference between being 19 year olds and being late 20s, right?
I mean, don't you, is, is it hasn't your world view just evolved?
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think that that's very true.
And most of us, we joined at 18, 19, you're joining at that age.
And so, you know, once you get in there and you, you see it for what it is, it's, it's
something you got to, you got to deal with.
I call it, everyone has mixed feelings about their service in that way.
One of the other things you write about, and, and I think this, I'm curious as to a younger
veterans view on the transition out of service, you know, back, back in the day, there was
no, the word transition didn't exist.
You were in one day out the next.
Hopefully you could find some civvies to where, but there seems to be a bigger emphasis
on recognizing that there does need to be a transition out.
But as you point out, the first year out is when the risk of suicide is highest, are we
doing enough in transition and getting people ready for it, for that big change in lifestyle?
I think we're doing great in, you know, there's a lot of career avenues because, you know,
you're not going to get out and it's really hard to meet that same paycheck.
I think they're pretty practical on that, but when it comes to the identity piece or
how you're going to fit into society, I think we're, we're sugarcoating that a little bit.
And I can just tell by some of the, I do a lot of short little clips on Instagram and
I have people reaching out to me all the time saying, I thought I was the only, I thought
I was the, the weirdo.
I thought I was, you know, so alone, I thought there was something wrong with me on why I
didn't fit in or why I couldn't get myself together after the military.
So I think we just need to be more honest and understand that yes, being tough and being
mission oriented and all those things that helped us in the military aren't necessarily
going to help us in the civilian world.
And we just need to start having more conversations like that.
Yeah.
And you use the word identity, which I think is pretty interesting because you have a certain
identity when you're in uniform, right?
And when you come home and you see your friends and they know what you're doing, you have
this identity exists and maybe it's blown up a little bit, but it exists.
When you get out, you no longer have that identity.
A word I like to use as purpose.
You have to have a purpose too in life.
Otherwise, it's, you do sit on the couch, wallow and think about, you know, things like harming
yourself, which you shouldn't do.
Is that a little bit of what we're not helping veterans with enough is to have them realize
it's going to take some time to have a new identity, to find a new purpose, to find the
right job.
We all think this is going to happen immediately, don't we?
Right.
Yes, that's so important because so much of our identity in the military, you know, society
puts us kind of on a pedestal like they're out there, they're fighting for us.
You know, you're doing something good with your job.
And then you get out and you, like I went from, you know, being in the Navy to being
a college kid and they're one of the most, you know, looked at as like entitled people.
So it was just hard to go from military personnel to college or, you know, some people are getting
out and having to take a lower paying job.
And it's just, it kind of messes with you.
It's like, what's my purpose?
You know, what's my next mission looking like now?
And I just think we could be more honest about how that's going to affect us because I don't
know anyone who hasn't experienced that.
This is, you know, just Jim's experience from years of talking to folks about this transition
issue and look at, I hear her.
How good is that?
My two year old just came home too.
I'm sorry.
Not a problem.
And my thought, my thought is that we're not honest with folks or we, we don't pass on
what we've learned.
It, it takes about honestly six years after you get out to go through, maybe it's some
more college or education, maybe it's two or three lousy jobs before you figure out the
one you really like.
It doesn't happen in the first year or second year or third year.
It may take six years before you go, man, I really feel solid now.
Have you experienced that at all?
Have you heard from folks who said, yeah, those first couple of years were horrible,
but I really feel like I'm grounded now.
Yes.
And I get that question a lot.
People are like, how long does it take?
They want to know how, how long does it take for you to go through this transition phase?
And I'm like, it's different for everyone.
Absolutely.
I think six years is a good number, more realistic than what people plan on like six month adjustment
period.
I think we need to give ourselves more time and a lot more understanding, you know, it
is a process and it's not going to be an overnight thing.
And not only do we have to give it, we veterans have to give that timeline and ourselves more
patience and more allowance for the time to go by, but we also have to communicate that
to our family because whether it's mom or dad or uncle or spouse, they're all thinking
like, man, this, what's taken so long.
And the reality of it is it just takes a long time and it is different for everybody.
And I, I'm just picking the number that I kind of have played with, with the folks in
the past to get there.
And I think both the veteran and his or her circle of friends and family have to understand
it.
And, and I don't think they do.
Do you?
No, no.
And it's something you're right.
I think we need to remind military personnel as they're getting out to identify that support
system and you know, say those phrases like, Hey, I'm going to be different.
You know, I'm not the person who, who left for the military.
You know, I was 18 at that time and now I'm coming back.
I'm not going to be the same person.
I think a lot of families get frustrated with that or even, you know, they're, they're
not used to them being around as much.
So it can create issues, but, but yeah, they'll never fully understand.
But they can have, they can have more compassion for you during that time.
That's great to communicate.
That's what you're looking for is just a little more compassion from those folks who, who want
to be helpful, but they just sometimes don't know how and don't really realize how long
it's going to take because you've got a lot of stuff to sort out finding your new identity,
finding your new purpose.
So as we wrap up, we're talking to Jenna Carleton.
She is the millennial veteran on Facebook and Instagram.
Jenna talk, give us, give her a veteran radio listener some idea of how they can follow
along on what you're doing.
Yes.
So I'm most active over on Instagram.
And I also, we also have a weekly podcast that comes out Sundays at nine is when we're
live on Instagram.
And then I usually have it posted Monday morning on the podcast.
I also have a workbook that I self published for veterans to kind of work through a lot
of the things we just talked about finding community that purpose after service, you
know, diving into your new identity and really setting yourself up for the next chapter,
the best way you can.
And you could find the link to that also on my Instagram.
Well, I'm also on LinkedIn, but I'm not as consistent over there.
And you have a Facebook, the millennial veteran has a Facebook site as well.
It seems fairly active.
Yep.
We have a Facebook group and we have a lot of chats in there.
People are always online, which is good because, you know, I encourage people to reach out
if you're feeling isolated or lonely, someone's always going to be active on there and be
able to talk to you.
Well, we appreciate everything that you're doing for our veterans.
Really a nice Wisconsin girl went to the Navy, found a husband in Greece and now has two
chatty daughters.
That's great.
And we're glad for all that you're doing out there and spending a little time with Veterans
Radio today.
Thank you so much for having me on, Jim.
It's been such a pleasure.
And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today.
I am Jim Fossone.
It's been a pleasure to be your host.
I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans and you can reach us at
800-6934800 or LegalHelpforVeterans.com on the web.
You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio
shows by visiting us at veteransradio.org.
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And until next time, you are dismissed.
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