1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,720 This is Veterans Radio. 3 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,280 And now your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry. 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,320 Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:31,440 My name is Dale Throneberry, a CW-2 helicopter pilot type person from, wow, many, many years 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,940 ago, 1968-69. 7 00:00:34,940 --> 00:00:37,200 Welcome to our program today. 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,680 I think some really great guests. 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,160 Number one is Hopad Sek and she's going to be talking about the prepping for the next 10 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:49,240 fight and we're going to be talking about some of the major changes that the various 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:55,160 services are going through and as they move into the future and look at different weaponry 12 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,680 and recruiting and so on and so forth. 13 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,360 So I think that's going to be really interesting. 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,240 And in the second half of the program, we're going to be talking about universal service 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,520 and national service, that is, and I think you'll find that really interesting. 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,840 It was an idea, well, I mean, it's been an idea proposed forever. 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,720 And as a result of the volunteer army, we know that the numbers have gone down as far 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,920 as recruiting is concerned. 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:29,760 And so this idea was first proposed by Colonel Jack Jacobs, a Medal of Honor recipient, Vietnam 20 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,960 veteran back in 2013. 21 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,680 And we're trying to see if we can get some traction behind this. 22 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,800 So we're going to be talking about universal national service in the second half of the 23 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,160 program and if you'd like to get in on the conversation on either end of the program, 24 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:52,000 you can give us a call live at 734-822-1600. 25 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,240 734-822-1600. 26 00:01:53,240 --> 00:02:00,000 But before I get to my first guest, we have to thank our sponsors because we can't do 27 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,760 this whole thing without sponsors. 28 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,680 And so we're going to start off with our longest serving sponsor and that is Legal Help for 29 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Veterans. 30 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:13,000 Legal Help for Veterans specializes in veterans disability claims. 31 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,560 For more information, you can go to their website, legalhelpforveterans.com, or give 32 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,080 them a call at 800-6934-800. 33 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:27,320 The National Veterans Business Development Council, better known as NVBDC, is the nation's 34 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,040 leading third party authority for a certification of veteran-owned businesses. 35 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,760 For more information, you can go to their website, that's NVBDC.org, or give them a 36 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:45,280 call at 888-237-843-843-843. 37 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:51,280 If you are a small veteran-owned business and you want to do work, get contracts with 38 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,440 the federal government, you need to be certified as a real-life veteran-owned business. 39 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,240 And these are the folks that will do that for you. 40 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,240 So check them out. 41 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,640 That's NVBDC.org. 42 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,720 The Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center here in Ann Arbor, Michigan. 43 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:12,240 For more information about the Charles S. Kettles VA Medical Center, just go to va.gov 44 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,480 slash Ann Arbor Health Care. 45 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,880 And of course, we'd also like to thank our longtime sponsors, the Irwin Prescor and 46 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:25,960 American Legion Post Number 46 and the Charles S. Kettles Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 47 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,040 310, both of Ann Arbor, Michigan. 48 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:34,640 If you would like to become a sponsor, all you got to do is go to veteransradio.org and 49 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:36,680 click on the sponsorship button. 50 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,880 We're looking for more and more sponsors if we can. 51 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,720 We can't do this for free. 52 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,760 So we're trying to gather the funds to pay for the various affiliates that we are on 53 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,640 and equipment and so forth. 54 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:55,360 If you would like to donate to Veterans Radio, since we are a 501-C3 nonprofit corporation, 55 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,360 again, you can go to the website veteransradio.org and click on the donate button. 56 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,760 Now, we're kind of a little thing we're trying to do this year since this is our 20th year, 57 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,600 is 20 bucks for 20 years. 58 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,480 That's a pretty good deal, I think. 59 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,280 So go and click on that button and we would greatly appreciate your support. 60 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,080 All right, let's get right into our program right now. 61 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,880 My guest is Hope Hodgson. 62 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,280 She is a writer on military issues. 63 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:28,760 She's based out of Washington for those that have watched the Veterans Radio or listened 64 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,000 to Veterans Radio over the year. 65 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,680 Hope was on before when she was the managing editor for military.com. 66 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,720 Her previous assignments have included a war zone embedded in Afghanistan with the Marines, 67 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,240 multiple reporting trips aboard amphibious ships and aircraft carriers. 68 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Her awards include multiple North Carolina Press Association honors in 2015 and 2017 69 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,560 Corps Heritage Foundation. 70 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,480 I know a lot of wars. 71 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,440 Just know there's a great writer and this is an expert, a real expert on what's going 72 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,560 on in the military today. 73 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,160 So Hope, welcome back to Veterans Radio. 74 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,880 Thank you so much for having me. 75 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:16,120 Well, you know, when I got my my magazine, the magazine that I'm talking about right 76 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,720 now is from the Military Officers Association of America. 77 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:26,240 It's their magazine and on the very cover, I'm sorry, we're not doing this with video, 78 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,240 but we should. 79 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,160 It says prepping for the next fight. 80 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,480 Find out what's in store this year for our uniform services. 81 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,760 And we're going to talk about all the services a little bit today. 82 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,840 I hope you don't mind. 83 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,200 And how did you come about writing this article? 84 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,440 So I love working with Military Officer Magazine. 85 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,800 I write for a lot of different outlets, but they are one of my favorite clients because 86 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,960 they are very forward looking when it comes to how best to serve the military and veterans 87 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:58,960 community. 88 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:07,480 And in fact, they have, I was just looking it up now, I think, 360,000 members in Military 89 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,400 Officer Association of America. 90 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:15,720 So this is a regular feature they do where they take a look forward at what matters most 91 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:23,360 to the different military services, both for operational things, equipment, deployments, 92 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:29,360 but also really practical things like pay and benefits and healthcare. 93 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,440 So this is a regular feature and I was really honored to do it for them. 94 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,120 Well, it's a really interesting article for one thing. 95 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:42,000 And with all the turmoil that was involved with that particular senator who didn't want 96 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:49,320 to let the newest commanders of all the various branches of the service get through this committee, 97 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,360 everybody seemed to hit it all at the same time in November, I think it was. 98 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,040 And so let's start off with the Army. 99 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:02,960 So I'm looking here as the Army really is mostly a concern that looks like with radical 100 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,000 recruiting overall, their numbers are so down. 101 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,000 That's right. 102 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,920 And the Army, of course, that's the largest military service. 103 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,360 So they tend to have, you know, the things that all the services are struggling, they 104 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,400 have kind of the biggest proportion of. 105 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:28,920 And this past end of the fiscal year, they missed their recruiting goal for a second 106 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,520 time in a row on active duty sessions. 107 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,440 And that's a big deal. 108 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Now they are being really aggressive about how to get after this. 109 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:46,800 And they've already rolled out some elements of what they're calling a recruiting transformation. 110 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:53,240 They're looking at populations that they haven't reached as well as they could in urban environments, 111 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,400 in places in the US that they haven't had as much of a reach as they would like to. 112 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:05,160 Now to connect with the younger generation, the interests and concerns of Gen Z are different 113 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:10,640 from millennials and those are certainly different from Gen Xers. 114 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,960 And this is a little peek into the future. 115 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:20,800 I have it on good authority that the Army is about to roll out a whole new tranche of 116 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,560 recruiting initiatives in the next month or so here. 117 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,080 So I don't have a lot of details on that yet, but that's definitely something to keep an 118 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:28,800 eye on. 119 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,920 Are you talking incentives? 120 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:38,040 You know, I would love to know the details of that because everyone wants to know where 121 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,640 the bonuses are. 122 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:45,600 I have heard though, because I've been in these conversations with recruiting officials 123 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,640 and in fact we're going to do a deep dive on recruiting for military officer magazine 124 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,920 and an upcoming issue, that the services are aware that they can't just keep pouring 125 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,120 incentive money at this problem. 126 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,440 Bonuses are not the long-term permanent solution, so I think you're going to see some more outside 127 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,440 the box thinking. 128 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,440 Yeah, I would think so. 129 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,880 And I know that in the article you were talking about that they're doing this test program, 130 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,200 I think it was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. 131 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:20,120 That's right, where they take these recruits who are not quite up to Army spec and you'll 132 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:25,720 hear all of the services and certainly at the Army saying we're not lowering standards, 133 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,720 we're not going to change the bar, but taking recruits who might be able to make that bar 134 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,800 but are not making it already, whether it's on height and weight, whether it's on academics 135 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,920 and saying we'll coach you, we'll bring you up to standard. 136 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,920 And so far that's been a pretty successful effort on the part of the Army, so they're 137 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,800 looking to build on and expand that. 138 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:53,480 I think that sounds, that's really interesting, that sort of like minor leagues or sports. 139 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,320 Exactly. 140 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Or you're going to some of these sport training schools that they have out there because you're 141 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,520 not quite fast enough or you're not quite tall enough or you're not whatever it is, 142 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,920 and then they build you up and then you can take that next step into the program. 143 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,120 I think that sounds like a cool idea. 144 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:18,080 Yeah, it's like an Army farm team who got to do the Rocky montage and getting ready 145 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,080 for the fight. 146 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,480 Yeah, plus maybe I'm sure they must get paid while they do that. 147 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,200 Yes, that's my understanding. 148 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,640 It's kind of like a pre-boot camp. 149 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,960 Yeah, well, I can hardly wait to do that again. 150 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,040 I don't think so. 151 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:43,920 So you also mentioned in the article about the Army, their new combat vehicle, this M10 152 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Booker. 153 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:55,120 Yes, so this has been about a decade in development and we're finally seeing some action on turning 154 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,760 it into a reality. 155 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:03,640 Now Army combat vehicles in general, they or any military service, these things don't 156 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:11,040 move fast and even the relatively rapid progress takes years. 157 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,680 Something interesting to look at that goes beyond the scope of the story is the various 158 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:23,640 services are looking at ways to integrate hybrid and electric technology. 159 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:29,560 So I don't know if you'll see that directly for the Booker, but they're considering the 160 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:34,520 options there and certainly looking ahead to future combat vehicles. 161 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,080 It sounds like a really cool vehicle. 162 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,760 It's kind of a mini tank. 163 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,320 I'm reading from the article here. 164 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,320 We're talking with Hope Hodgseck who wrote this article and I thought it was so cool 165 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,800 because the Booker is named after a Medal of Honor recipient, a Private Robert D. Booker 166 00:11:52,800 --> 00:12:00,120 who died in World War II and a Distinguished Service Cross-Resipient Staff Sergeant, Stefan 167 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,320 Booker who unfortunately passed away from his injuries in Operation Iraqi Fury. 168 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,920 So I didn't get a chance to look it up and go, Jesus, these guys are related. 169 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,200 I don't know if they are or not. 170 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,600 I'll have to check it out. 171 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:17,680 But it said that it looks like a smaller Abrams tank with its tracks and 105 millimeter gun 172 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:18,680 turret. 173 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:23,640 I think that might stop a few people on the way. 174 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,160 Substantial firepower in the fight. 175 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,160 Yeah. 176 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,080 I think that that's kind of cool. 177 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,400 And so for those of you that are listening and want to find out more about it, just go 178 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,960 and type into Google M10 Booker. 179 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:36,960 See what it comes over. 180 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,280 It's kind of a cool picture of what it looks like. 181 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,680 It's in the magazine. 182 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:46,760 So moving on from the Army, let's go to the Marine Corps, which I thought was really 183 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,240 interesting in that the Marine Corps is kind of transitioning away from their own, their 184 00:12:52,240 --> 00:13:02,320 tanks and focusing more on, I don't know, it sounded like, what's the word I'm looking 185 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:03,320 for? 186 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,320 I just forgot it. 187 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Age related problems come along here once in a while. 188 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:16,640 More individual training than not utilizing the tank aspect of it. 189 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:17,640 That's right. 190 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,320 Well, the Marine Corps is officially tank free as a service. 191 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:30,520 They've divested of all of their tanks and they are looking to get lighter and leaner. 192 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,000 And this has been a subject of some controversy on Capitol Hill. 193 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,560 There are certainly folks and particularly in the retired ranks, retired general officers 194 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:46,600 who say the Marine Corps is changing too much, too fast, getting rid of infantry components, 195 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,480 various capabilities. 196 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,400 But the Marine Corps is looking forward to that future fight. 197 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:59,720 And they want to be able to send small units for island hopping operations in the Pacific 198 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:07,560 to be able to operate independently when they can't get quick resupply. 199 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:12,240 They want to transport on ospreys and vehicles that can fit inside ospreys. 200 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:20,640 And they're really looking at creative ways to sustain that kind of light, agile fighter. 201 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,080 And the Marine Corps, as I'm sure you know, is very, very concerned about its own identity 202 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,800 as separate capability from the Army as something that no other service offers as kind of this 203 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,720 hybrid amphibious force that it's always been. 204 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,280 And this is the picture that they've come up with. 205 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:45,440 And it's now a couple of Commandants who have kind of sustained this vision and it is moving 206 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,560 forward into the future. 207 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:54,440 Well, in the article, you talk about them seemingly concentrating more on the South Pacific part 208 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,440 of the world. 209 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,200 And, you know, I guess letting the Army take care of the Army and the rest of them take 210 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,160 care of the Middle East. 211 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:09,160 But is this something that is part of this overhaul of the Marines? 212 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Absolutely. 213 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:17,520 And the Marine Corps will tell you that some of the biggest potential future fights, future 214 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,040 adversaries are right there in the Pacific. 215 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:27,880 You think about China, which is a technological and geopolitical threat and increasingly very 216 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,600 capable investing in its military capacity. 217 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,600 And then there are unstable actors out there like North Korea. 218 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:47,040 So even though the Middle East continues to pop up as a center of conflict, as we've seen 219 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:55,480 even recently, the Marine Corps is making a big bet that the future sort of of the big 220 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,160 near-peer power struggle is going to be in the Pacific. 221 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:04,240 Yeah, we've had guests on Vets and Radio recently that talked about that that's an area we really 222 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:11,440 need to concentrate our attention on because it's pretty a dangerous area. 223 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:17,320 I mean, so many parts of the world are dangerous right now, but this is something that could 224 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:23,720 potentially cause us problems in the not too distant future. 225 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,240 In talking about not just the Marine Corps. 226 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,920 So the Navy, this I found was really interesting. 227 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:39,160 So we got the Navy with the first female top officer ever, Admiral Lisa of French Eddy. 228 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,920 And so she's in charge of the whole deal. 229 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,440 That's pretty cool. 230 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:46,440 That's right. 231 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:51,160 And she comes with some impressive bona fides. 232 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,040 You know, she's she's been out in the fleet. 233 00:16:54,040 --> 00:17:01,760 She commanded sailors underway at a very high level and in general, she's just an impressive 234 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,320 sailor to serve under. 235 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:14,040 So as you mentioned or alluded to earlier, there was this lengthy hold on nominations 236 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,480 of officers for promotion. 237 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,040 She was part of that. 238 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:26,120 So her ascending to the position of Chief of Naval Operations was somewhat delayed, 239 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:32,360 but she's now in place and the Navy is leading the way. 240 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:33,360 They are leading the way. 241 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:37,840 And they're well, you know, you we mentioned earlier on that there are things going on 242 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,560 in the Middle East and, you know, around the Red Sea and this was canal and so forth. 243 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,280 And there are two Navy carriers there right now. 244 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,720 The we got the Gerald R. Ford and the Dwight D. Eisenhower are there. 245 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:58,240 And I'm sure that many of those retaliatory flights are taking off from those aircraft 246 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,400 carriers. 247 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,560 Not only that. 248 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:07,320 So that was a very, very fast response from the Navy. 249 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,400 And on behalf of the whole Defense Department, the Navy was sort of the Ford arm of that 250 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:19,320 response following the October 7 attacks by Hamas on Israel to get out into the med to 251 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,440 have a carrier presence to say we are here and we are responsive and we are at the ready. 252 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,920 Since even that sort of that story that I put together at the end of the year, we have 253 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:36,600 seen the Navy be a very prominent actor in defense. 254 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:48,680 So there are a number of Navy ships, destroyers and cruisers that have very, very successfully 255 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:59,120 blocked, defended and returned fire against Houthi rebels out of Yemen who are to as best 256 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:07,080 we know, acting on behalf of Hamas in sending out missiles toward Navy assets. 257 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:13,040 So the Navy has acquitted itself very, very excellently so far has just demonstrated its 258 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:22,160 ability to maintain dominance in this area and to respond as needed. 259 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:30,480 I think it's really concerning, I guess you can say to me, as people that prod us and 260 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,560 you're prodding us, we've got the biggest stick, I guess you could say, out there. 261 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:45,240 And from a political standpoint, I guess it comes down to, we have to be careful because 262 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,880 we don't want to have this whole thing erupt into World War III or anything along those 263 00:19:49,880 --> 00:20:04,000 lines, but we still can't allow these small groups that are being supported by other states 264 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:13,800 to hold up the business of transferring goods through the Suez Canal or through the Red 265 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:14,960 Sea and so forth. 266 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:21,400 And I think that all of these small little organizations that, I don't know about you, 267 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,360 but I wouldn't want to take on an aircraft carrier or a destroyer or anything along those 268 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,880 lines because you know that you have to know that they're going to retaliate and they're 269 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:37,000 going to retaliate three times, 30 times over what you can do. 270 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,000 That's right. 271 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,800 The Navy always wants to maintain overmatch. 272 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:47,080 And that goes for all of the services, but they're the power in the seas, no doubt. 273 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,840 Well, yeah, I mean, we go all the way back to the Rosevout with the big stick thing. 274 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,400 So okay, so we're moving, trying to move along. 275 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,440 I don't want to lose you when we're talking. 276 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,000 So oh, I know the other thing I wanted to ask you about was the ghost fleet. 277 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,880 The ghost fleet, yes. 278 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,600 So this is really wild. 279 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:17,960 You know, the Navy, not unlike the Air Force with this boneyard, has a number of ships 280 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:24,160 that are always, that are sort of in this in-between area where they've been, they're 281 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:30,480 out of commission, but they're not in the scrap heap yet. 282 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,800 And so it proposals every once in a while come up to say, hey, can we reactivate some 283 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,640 of these ships and add to our numbers? 284 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:48,880 And the Navy for several years now has been very, very preoccupied with how many ships 285 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,840 do we need in our overall fleet? 286 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,160 And what is that number and how do we get to it? 287 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:02,680 Because building ships in the shipyard is very cost-intensive, but even more than that, 288 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:03,680 very time-intensive. 289 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,040 And there are a limited number of shipyards to draw from. 290 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:15,360 And so building more ships adding to the fleet faster than the Navy can retire old ships 291 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:21,640 has been just a really difficult problem for the Navy for a while. 292 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,240 So that's where this kind of concept comes from. 293 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,600 I just thought that was interesting. 294 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:31,160 Ghost fleet is like floating around out there some long, you know, with the pirate ships 295 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,160 and so forth. 296 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,640 Moving out more out there, but it sounds like they're trying to upgrade these ships without 297 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,680 building new ones. 298 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,680 Exactly. 299 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:40,680 Exactly. 300 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,800 That's a proposal on the table. 301 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,600 I'm not sure where it will go. 302 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:52,360 Another thing to pay attention to is the Navy building unmanned ships. 303 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,080 So they're cheaper. 304 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,280 They tend to be smaller. 305 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:03,960 But if you can predict their movements, make sure they're capable and you're controlling 306 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,520 them, that's a way that the service is also pursuing to build out its fleet to the desired 307 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,520 number. 308 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,520 That's kind of interesting. 309 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:19,520 It's sort of like the pizza guys in our town with their robot delivery vehicles trying 310 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,960 to see how that works. 311 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,960 All right. 312 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:22,960 That's cool. 313 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,960 I like that. 314 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:24,960 All right. 315 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,240 And they're sort of increasing their special ops training. 316 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,520 And one of the things in the article, we are, as I mentioned before, we're talking with 317 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,960 a Pope Hodge Sector article is in them, the Military Officers Association of America's 318 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,160 magazine called the Military Officer Never Stop Serving. 319 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:50,760 And she's kind of taken a look at each of the military services and what we can anticipate 320 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,120 with the upcoming year. 321 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,400 So we've gone through the Army and Marine Corps and the Navy. 322 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,360 Now let's go to the Air Force. 323 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:02,120 And the Air Force is increasing their special ops training where they're holding training 324 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:06,880 exercises with the Army's 160th Special Operations Aviation Union. 325 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:13,080 Those are the guys that take the SEAL team six people around on their missions. 326 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,880 And so it sounds like that the Air Force wants to get more involved in that. 327 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Yeah. 328 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,680 A very, very exciting concept. 329 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:27,080 I always am interested personally when I see the services looking for opportunities to 330 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080 be what you might call joint. 331 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,080 I think very often they get siloed. 332 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:41,760 So they are reinventing the wheel or doing the same thing in kind of different colored 333 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,760 iterations. 334 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:51,800 But I also believe that this kind of combined effort is reflective of what they're anticipating 335 00:24:51,800 --> 00:25:02,480 for the future fight, which is opportunities for the services to lean on each other's capabilities 336 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,600 and to draw on what's available. 337 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,760 Again, as we were talking about with the Marine Corps, looking to operate in sort of austere 338 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:16,080 areas where there's not a fancy base with a KFC inside. 339 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:27,240 You know, you have things where the Air Force might be using Army assets or vice versa. 340 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,440 Another piece of the overall Air Force vision puzzle is what they call Agile Combat Employment. 341 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,000 Again, they've been rolling this out over the last few years. 342 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:46,480 And again, that's the ability for aircraft and squadrons to sort of bunny hop to austere 343 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,760 areas like the Pacific, use the available resources, whether they belong to the Army 344 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:59,400 or the Navy or what have you, and deploy force in kind of like a hub and spoke way to reach 345 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,240 further out with their power. 346 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,560 It sounds certainly it sounds reasonable and I would think it'd be very cost effective 347 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,120 if they're working together on some of these things. 348 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:15,000 I know there's duplication as far as weaponry and so on and so forth. 349 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,760 But if, you know, for instance, if the Marines can't don't have enough people somewhere, 350 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,760 then the Army could add to it or the Air Force could come in before the Navy has the opportunity 351 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,600 to get their planes on station types of things. 352 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,640 I think that's really, really kind of a really efficient. 353 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,320 The other thing that the Air Force is doing that you mentioned is that they have a new 354 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,480 new jet coming out. 355 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,480 What is it? 356 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,320 The sixth generation fighter is taking shape replacing the F 22 Raptor. 357 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,160 Can you tell us a little bit about what's coming out with that? 358 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,160 Yes. 359 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:55,240 So this is the end guide, the next generation air dominance. 360 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,600 And this is the the exciting new thing. 361 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:06,680 Now I feel like I say this a lot and have already said this, but these these efforts 362 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:15,720 are years in the making and we sort of get little scraps and pictures of what these next 363 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,160 capabilities might be. 364 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:26,160 But we don't yet have a sixth generation fighter aircraft anywhere in the US military. 365 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,760 There have been only two fifth generation fighters. 366 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:34,040 There's the F 35, which the Air Force, the Navy and the Marine Corps have. 367 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:43,040 And there's the F 22, which was a which is an Air Force program that was cut short in 368 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,160 terms of production. 369 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,400 So there is a limited number of F 22s. 370 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,440 Now when you talk about the capabilities for, you know, the kind of the next level Air Force 371 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,440 fighters. 372 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,800 There's a lot less of sort of like the the dog fighting maneuvers that we think about 373 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:07,200 with, you know, Tom Cruise and and top done and and his F 14 Tomcat. 374 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,160 And it's much more about being networked in the sky. 375 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:16,520 So you have just an unprecedented view of the battlefield and everything in it and everything 376 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,840 is talking to each other and you can sneak up on the enemy well before they're they're 377 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,680 aware that you're in the area. 378 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:31,040 I think one of the things that that kind of, you know, attaching to that is to talk a little 379 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,440 bit about what the Space Force is up to with their and I didn't want to leave them out. 380 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:45,240 That's that they're focusing on positioning navigation time and electromagnetic warfare. 381 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,120 Oh, big word. 382 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,520 Yes. 383 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:57,000 The Space Force is fundamentally different than any other service out there and they're 384 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,400 leaning into that. 385 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:04,760 You recall that they date back only to December of 2020. 386 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:14,280 So they just passed their three year anniversary three year birthday and they are they don't 387 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:20,200 have a lot of well, you know, they they're not deploying to space. 388 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,960 They've got acquisition folks and and satellite controllers. 389 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,480 It's highly technical. 390 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:36,680 And yet this is becoming an increasingly important part of warfare is just maintaining dominance 391 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:44,800 in in space and in sort of the the electromagnetic realm and everything that we can't see. 392 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,320 So you're still seeing a Space Force looking for different ways to organize that makes 393 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:56,440 sense for for its specific needs and for them, its specific mission, which is unlike any 394 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,440 of the other services. 395 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,880 And what I think is just, you know, and based on what we were saying about, you know, the 396 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,440 Navy is trying to figure out where everything is and then you got the Space Force is above 397 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,240 them and they could be working with all the different branches of the service and saying, 398 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,360 OK, the bad guys are over here. 399 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,760 And, you know, they have the ability to direct you toward wherever the action might be. 400 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,760 Correct. 401 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,760 Yeah. 402 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,160 OK, finally, I'm going to I need to get into the Coast Guard a little bit. 403 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,720 This is my father's branch of the service. 404 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,360 And it's not that they have a whole lot of things that are going on, but they do this 405 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,520 is the Coast Guard. 406 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,680 And then this is something I didn't know before. 407 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:41,160 The only service that can work in ice locked waters and they now they're they're getting 408 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,640 a new icebreaker. 409 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,000 Yes, this is at long last. 410 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,280 And not many people know this about the Coast Guard. 411 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,120 And I'll shout out to my father-in-law, who is also a career coastie. 412 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,960 But but the Coast Guard is the only service that possesses this icebreaker capability. 413 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:05,640 They've got two icebreakers, the Polar Star and the Healy. 414 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,560 They're both incredibly old, should have retired a long time ago and are more and more difficult 415 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,280 to keep up and keep moving through the ice. 416 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:22,880 And at the same time, these these ice locked kind of Arctic northern waters are more important 417 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,880 than they've ever been before because you've got competition from Russia, you've got competition 418 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,640 from China. 419 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,760 There are folks in that space who who haven't been as interested before who are trying to 420 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,600 claim it, you know, for for their power. 421 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:45,120 So so the Coast Guard, this, I think they call it the Polar Security Cutter. 422 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,560 It's been they've been fighting for funding for it for a long time. 423 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,440 It's moving forward in in a really healthy way. 424 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,760 I think the design is finalized and they're they're getting the money that they need. 425 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,800 So this is great news for the service and it's been I think if there's been anything 426 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,040 that the Coast Guard has been asking for on Capitol Hill for the last few years, it's 427 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,880 it's for this this Polar Security Cutter to be what they needed to be. 428 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,240 I think just got this is a great article focus. 429 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,440 I encourage you. 430 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,120 I don't know where we could find it online. 431 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,800 I suppose you could probably find it somewhere out there. 432 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,800 I'd have to look for it. 433 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,080 I mean, I'm a member of this organization. 434 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,080 So that's how I come. 435 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,080 I got the magazine. 436 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,280 We have been talking with with a whole pod sec. 437 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,520 And there's there's a couple of other servers that unfortunately we don't have time to go 438 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,320 into and I would love to have you come back and talk a little bit more about the National 439 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,440 Ocean Ocean, Oceanic and Asthmospheric Administration and finally US Public Service. 440 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,160 I don't think people are aware of these branches of the service. 441 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,920 But I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us here on Veterans Radio 442 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,520 today and keep writing these great articles. 443 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:04,000 Hope, you know, you're a it's it's it's it's it's great to have somebody that can explain 444 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,640 these things to people like me and to many people in our audience. 445 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,160 There's so many things that are going on. 446 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,320 Thank you so much for having me. 447 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,960 This has been a pleasure. 448 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,960 Thank you. 449 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,960 We'll talk to you soon. 450 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,960 All right. 451 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,240 So that's hope. 452 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,120 And now we're going to go on to another story. 453 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,400 But first we're going to do our Medal of Honor. 454 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,640 And when we come back from our Medal of Honor segment, we are going to be talking with Bill 455 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:33,600 Graham of Marine, my generation of a Marine, and he's going to be talking about the case 456 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,640 for Universal National Service. 457 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880 This is going to be kind of interesting, folks. 458 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,360 So you're listening to Veterans Radio and we will be right back. 459 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,880 The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor and combat given a member of the Armed 460 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,640 Forces of the United States. 461 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,120 There have been over 3400 recipients of the nation's highest award. 462 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,840 This is one of them. 463 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,120 First Lieutenant Jack Jacobs, although seriously wounded, made repeated trips across an open 464 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,160 rice paddy evacuating wounded and their weapons. 465 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,240 Details after this. 466 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,120 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for 467 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,320 Veterans at 1-800-693-4800. 468 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,360 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 469 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,400 Their number again, 1-800-693-4800. 470 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,360 Jacobs served as an assistant battalion advisor in Kien Phong Province, Republic of Vietnam. 471 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,800 The battalion was advancing when it came under intense heavy machine gun and mortar fire. 472 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,120 Jacobs called for and directed airstrikes on enemy positions. 473 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,560 Due to the intensity of the enemy fire and heavy casualties to the command group, including 474 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,840 the company commander, the attack stopped and the friendly troops became disorganized. 475 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,120 Wounded by mortar fragments, Jacobs assumed command of the company, ordered a withdrawal 476 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,480 from the exposed position and established a defensive perimeter. 477 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,400 Despite heavy bleeding from head wounds that impaired his vision, Jacobs returned under 478 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,600 intense fire to evacuate a seriously wounded advisor to safety, where he administered life-saving 479 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,400 first aid. 480 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:12,200 He then returned through heavy automatic weapons fire to evacuate the wounded company commander. 481 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,480 Jacobs made repeated trips across the fire-swept open rice paddies, evacuating wounded and their 482 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,960 weapons. 483 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,440 On three separate occasions, Jacobs drove off Viet Cong squads who were searching for 484 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,120 Allied wounded and weapons, single-handedly killing three and wounding several others. 485 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:34,240 His actions saved the lives of a U.S. advisor and 13 Allied soldiers. 486 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,800 The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio. 487 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,120 Military veterans touch everyone's life. 488 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,560 I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative. 489 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,000 Maybe it's you. 490 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,320 Even the toughest among us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support. 491 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,360 You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life. 492 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,560 If you know a veteran in crisis, don't wait. 493 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,560 Reach out. 494 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,600 Call the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, then press 1. 495 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,720 988, press 1. 496 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:09,000 A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. 497 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,520 And we're back here on Veterans Radio, and my guest coming up is Bill Graham. 498 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:20,200 Bill is a Marine, Vietnam-era Marine, and I'm anxious to talk to Bill about the idea 499 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,200 of this case for Universal National Service. 500 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,000 So Bill, welcome to Veterans Radio. 501 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,400 Well, thank you, Bill. 502 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,400 Thanks for having me. 503 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,400 Well, it's good to have you on the program. 504 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:38,240 Just for our audience's sake, I've found Bill because I'm actually trying to get caught 505 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,640 up on reading all of these magazines that we get for these various organizations that 506 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:48,200 some of us are in, and that's where I found my last guest, Hope. 507 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:55,280 This one comes from the November-December issue of the VVA Veteran Magazine, and in 508 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,720 it there is the article. 509 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:01,480 It's called The Case for Universal National Service, and Bill, I guess you were asked 510 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,640 to write an article about this. 511 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:11,920 Yeah, well, yeah, what I did was back in 2013, I wrote an article and never sent it any 512 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:21,360 place, and I just put my thoughts on paper after having seen, ironically, Colonel Jack 513 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:33,520 Jacobs on CNN one day, and he was talking about mandatory service, and that he did not think 514 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:45,480 that the selective service program we now have should be activated again, in that it 515 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,240 had too much selectiveness as part of it. 516 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:56,000 And I think that was born out during the Vietnam era that it became too selective. 517 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:05,320 Yeah, I mean, talking to many of our listeners in our age group, we had a number of options 518 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,760 that we could enlist, that was number one. 519 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:20,440 We could get drafted if we were still in college and some other ways we could defer our entry 520 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:21,440 into the service. 521 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:27,000 And the worst case scenario is the guys who went to Canada. 522 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,880 I have a friend from high school, I think he still was there, I don't think he ever 523 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:30,880 came back. 524 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:39,760 But the idea of being is that the argument in your article is that it was a disproportionate 525 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:45,240 number of people from lower incomes and so forth that were getting caught up in the draft 526 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:49,080 because they didn't have the means to get deferred. 527 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,080 Exactly. 528 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,080 Yeah. 529 00:38:51,080 --> 00:39:04,880 And so many people, they did multiple tours of duty in combat zones and we didn't realize 530 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:13,480 the effect all that had until years later when the post-traumatic stress became really 531 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:20,520 at the forefront and suicide rates began to really, really skyrocket. 532 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:29,240 And that's when it really comes to the surface and we have to examine it. 533 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:36,040 And selective service, I don't think, I agree with Colonel Jacobson, and I don't think it's 534 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,120 the answer. 535 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:49,520 And I think personally I believe that the answer lies in service and whether it be the 536 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:57,280 Peace Corps, AmeriCorps or the military service. 537 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,280 I agree. 538 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:08,280 I mean, I can remember having discussions even when I was in the service about how do we 539 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,960 become more inclusive? 540 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:16,320 How do we get more people to understand that it's not just being in the military that's 541 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,400 serving the country. 542 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:24,360 We need other ways that we need to be aware of what this country provides for us. 543 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,360 Exactly. 544 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,520 You know, John Kennedy type of thing. 545 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:34,360 And that, you know, it doesn't necessarily, not everybody's cut out to be in the military. 546 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,360 We know that too. 547 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,240 I agree with that. 548 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:42,480 But there are so many different options that are available. 549 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:49,320 You know, as you mentioned, the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, you know, Teaching for America, 550 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,920 Conservation Corps and so forth. 551 00:40:51,920 --> 00:41:03,520 And I think what was in the article was implied is that everybody, and we're talking everybody, 552 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:10,400 men and women that are physically able to participate would donate two years of their 553 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:17,000 lives to the country, either two years in the service or the other things that we mentioned 554 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000 there. 555 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,440 And at the end of that two years, if you want to stay in, you can stay in. 556 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,040 You want to get out? 557 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,400 There probably would be some sort of GI bill available to them. 558 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:30,400 Yes. 559 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:41,720 In fact, in reading the AmeriCorps and Peace Corps have a stipend at the end of that that 560 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:48,120 will help reintegrate yourself into whatever field you want to go. 561 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:54,960 And there's a payment program while you're engaged in that, rightfully so you're not 562 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:02,680 become a millionaire by doing that, but you will be able to contribute to the country 563 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:08,960 that we call the United States of America that so many people want to come to. 564 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:16,280 And we can reduce the divide between us and them, the civilian sector as opposed to the 565 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,240 military sector. 566 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:26,800 And the two can meet and become the country we want to be. 567 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,360 I agree with you, Bill. 568 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,960 And I think it's, you know, we've got less than one percent of the population is in the 569 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:33,960 military today. 570 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,600 And there are a lot of people out there who don't have any connection at all to the military 571 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,240 any longer, unless it was their great grandfather. 572 00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:42,240 Exactly. 573 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:43,240 Yes. 574 00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:49,080 You know, so we've got to figure out, I think we have to make, we need to figure out a way 575 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,160 to make people appreciate what we have. 576 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,000 And you know, politics aside, we won't go into that. 577 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,480 But to, you know, that that we still, in my mind, you know, we're still the greatest 578 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:10,920 country in the world, I think, not in that other countries aren't great and so forth 579 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,480 in their own way. 580 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,800 But I mean, we're still this experiment, which, you know, I mean, we're the young 581 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,800 kids on the block. 582 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,160 And what are we, 230 some years old? 583 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:28,120 And you know, that we were offering everybody the opportunity. 584 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,400 And I think that's the magic word there is that opportunity to benefit from living here. 585 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,400 Yes. 586 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,680 And I think everybody should add a little bit to that if they are going to live here. 587 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:40,680 Right. 588 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:41,680 Yeah. 589 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:53,520 And we also have to, as relates to the military, get through to others that just because you 590 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,840 joined the military doesn't mean you're going off and shooting people. 591 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,360 And that is such a misnomer. 592 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:06,840 And talking with, you know, young folks and those folks who have never joined, well, I 593 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:15,440 don't want my kid to go off and just be deployed and start shooting this and getting shot himself. 594 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,280 There are so many opportunities in the military. 595 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,720 It's mind boggling, actually. 596 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:30,280 And if we could get beyond those misnomers, I think we would be, you know, be able to 597 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,000 fill the ranks in which they're having difficulty doing now. 598 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:42,240 And at the same time, fulfilling some of the social responsibilities that could be done 599 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,680 by not being in the military through the two-year commitment. 600 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:52,040 Well, you know, the guest I had on earlier before we came on the air and talking with 601 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:57,360 Hope and she was talking about all the technology that's involved in all the branches of service. 602 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,880 You know, it's not everybody just runs around, as you mentioned, carrying a rifle. 603 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:01,880 Right. 604 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,320 You know, there are computer experts that are in the field. 605 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,400 I mean, these guys, and you've talked to them as well, you know, they take computers with 606 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:18,080 them out into the field for communications, for targeting, for updates on weather and 607 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,000 everything else that is out there. 608 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,160 And that's not the only thing. 609 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,800 I mean, they design the weaponry. 610 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,560 They deploy the weaponry. 611 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:27,960 You've got all these ships. 612 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,560 And I wasn't in the Navy, but I know that there's a lot going on in the ships and other 613 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,360 than jets taking off from aircraft carriers. 614 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,360 That's right. 615 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,360 Yeah, that's that's. 616 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,240 And even in the Marine Corps, and the Marine Corps, you know, has the reputation of, well, 617 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:46,600 you can come from jail and grab a rifle and go to the Marine Corps. 618 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,720 Well, that's not true. 619 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:53,120 But, and I can tell you my own story. 620 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:59,800 I started out as a rifleman in recruit after recruit training until it was discovered I 621 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,800 knew how to type. 622 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,120 It went on from there. 623 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:10,920 And I spent my life, my career in the personnel administration. 624 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:16,120 And you know, that goes back to the thing about, you know, what is it that you need 625 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:24,040 nine to 10 administrative people or support troops for every one person in the field? 626 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,040 Sure. 627 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,960 And again, not every one of those people, you know, is going to run around carrying 628 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:34,520 a rifle or a pistol and then, you know, whatever that is, but you have to have those support 629 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:35,720 people to do that. 630 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:40,240 And the idea then is coming out when you come out of the service. 631 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,800 You have skills. 632 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,440 Skills that you didn't even know you had. 633 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,680 That's right. 634 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,760 That are not related just to, you know, firing guns and rifles and so forth. 635 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:51,760 Yeah. 636 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,880 And you have a better appreciation for other cultures at the same time because you've been 637 00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,800 around other cultures. 638 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:06,440 If you never leave your city block, that's that becomes your world. 639 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:13,320 And expand your horizons beyond that and you begin to appreciate other things and other 640 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:14,320 people. 641 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:20,200 And but it has so many pluses to it and fewer minuses. 642 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,200 No, I think so. 643 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,720 You know, when you when you look at look back at the all volunteer force that came about 644 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:37,160 in 1973 as a result of the ineffective draft system that was that was going on at the time. 645 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,160 You know, yes, it was great. 646 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,160 Okay. 647 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,480 Everybody's a volunteer. 648 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,920 But not everybody was in the game. 649 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,560 And not everybody has, you know, forget the terminology, you know, you don't have any 650 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,640 money in the game. 651 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:57,400 And so, you know, all we're, you know, we're all supportive of the troops that are overseas 652 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:02,800 and, you know, blah, blah, blah, we, you know, food packages and so forth. 653 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:09,080 But I think it's it's so much more important, whether it's the military or the Peace Corps 654 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:16,400 or any of these opportunities that these these young people would have to just serve their 655 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,120 country for these for this two year time period. 656 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:26,160 And you know, I'm sure that, you know, the negotiations and compromises would allow them, 657 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:32,400 you know, not necessarily, you know, I think you're you want, oh, I see, here it is. 658 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,400 It's requiring everybody between the ages and 20 18 and 25. 659 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,120 So if you wanted to go to college, you could get college out of the way and then put your 660 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,680 two years in. 661 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:43,680 Yes. 662 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:52,360 And if you were, I would say, and it would be a proposal I would make if if you're already 663 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:58,280 registered for college, go to college, and you would put that two years on hold until 664 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:05,000 such time as you finished college, then spend your two years and go about your life. 665 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:11,440 And you can reflect back upon the World War two, folks who came back and had put their 666 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:19,640 lives on life on hold for however long and carried on some became leaders of the country, 667 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:24,240 others leaders in the military and went on to corporations. 668 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:31,840 So it's not the end of things by spending two years of your life dedicated to service 669 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,840 to the country. 670 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,920 No, and I think one of the things that that's, you know, we're we're talking about here 671 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:44,480 with with Bill Graham and the case for universal national service is that if everybody does 672 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:50,400 it, if everybody participates in it, then there's no sense of loss by those who do do 673 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:51,400 it. 674 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,080 And this is just a personal story. 675 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:58,040 I mean, I can remember, you know, I spent who counted right three years, seven months 676 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:06,280 and two days in in the service. But when I came home, the guys I had hung around beforehand 677 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:13,080 who had gotten the deferments were now four years ahead of me career wise. 678 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:19,320 And that's something that I think that this idea is is attempting to address. 679 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:24,400 And I just I don't know. Is there any is there anybody else talking about this other than, 680 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:29,600 you know, a couple of years ago when you were you know, what did you do you had well, well, 681 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,840 the late Charlie Wrangle of New York, he introduced that in 2011. 682 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,840 I guess it didn't go anywhere. 683 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,480 Now it didn't go anywhere. 684 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:46,640 And then in 2013, there was a house record 748, 113th Universal National Service Act 685 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,080 that was it was introduced. 686 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:58,120 That was it. It died right there. So, you know, it doesn't have a lot of a lot of traction, 687 00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,120 if you will. 688 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,080 How do we go about getting some traction? Do you have any any have you been able to talk 689 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,160 to any politicians who might be willing to support this? 690 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,160 I have not. 691 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:14,600 No, the idea came up in the Vietnam Veterans Magazine. 692 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:21,040 And I said, Well, I have some insight on this that I researched previously. 693 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,040 So I sent that off. 694 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,680 And that that's what prompted this interaction today. 695 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:34,840 But I would certainly not frown at going forth with a proposal to a congressional member. 696 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:39,080 I think it'd be interesting to see if we'd find a congressional member that would support 697 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:40,080 this thing. 698 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,760 Yeah, you know, they have to be out there. 699 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,560 I mean, there's still a couple of there are still a couple of veterans that are serving 700 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,040 in Congress. 701 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,040 Yes. 702 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:59,560 And yeah, and there are there there seems to be more now from Afghanistan and Iraq era 703 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,800 in the legislature now. 704 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:02,800 So perhaps. 705 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,000 Yeah, you would think that they would be very interested in something like this, especially 706 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,960 those men and women that did the five and six tours. 707 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:12,960 Yeah, absolutely. 708 00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,600 Yeah, I can't imagine. 709 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,000 I cannot imagine doing more than one tour. 710 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,880 Yeah, you know, five or six. 711 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:26,720 I mean, obviously, that's going to add to the to the amount of post-traumatic stress out 712 00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:27,720 there. 713 00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:32,280 It's going to add to the numbers of those 22 a day suicides that are are still going 714 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:33,280 on. 715 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:40,160 I have to figure out a way to to to fix this bill and anything that I can do to help you, 716 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:45,400 I'd be more than glad to get on the train with you and see if we can get this at least 717 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:46,400 out of the station. 718 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,400 Right. 719 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,160 I'll certainly keep you up to date on any any progress I make. 720 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,160 Okay. 721 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,480 Well, thank you very much. 722 00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:01,520 So we've been talking with Bill Graham, Marine from the Vietnam era and his article in the 723 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:06,520 VDA, the veteran was called the case for universal national service. 724 00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:12,440 And I encourage everybody to get an opportunity to either read that article or go to our website, 725 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,560 veterans radio dot org. 726 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,280 And we've got some information on how to get at these articles that we've been talking 727 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,160 about today. 728 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,160 Let's see what we can do. 729 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:23,160 You know, what's your opinion? 730 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,400 You should what do you think? 731 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:25,880 So shoot me an email. 732 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:26,880 Let me know. 733 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:33,040 Set up a group discussion on our program one day and talk about should universal national 734 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,360 service be something that we should be exploring. 735 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:41,360 So again, Bill Graham, thank you very much for being on the program. 736 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:42,360 You're welcome. 737 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:43,360 Thank you for having me. 738 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:44,360 It's my pleasure. 739 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,440 I love reading these. 740 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,040 These are great stories in all these magazines to all of our listeners. 741 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,760 So, you know, we encourage you to do that. 742 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,480 This week, Jim file song will be here and he's going to be talking with a couple of 743 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,080 veterans for Black History Month. 744 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,640 And we're going to be some of those things like that along the lines. 745 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,640 So this is Dale Throneberry for all of us here at Veterans Radio until next week. 746 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,240 You are dismissed. 747 00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:30,320 Oh beautiful for the spaces guys for 748 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,320 I'm the way of love, great 749 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:42,320 For purple mountain majesties 750 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:48,320 Above the fruity plain 751 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:55,320 America, America 752 00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:01,320 God shed His grace only 753 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:08,320 And crowned with brotherhood 754 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,320 From sin to sin 755 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:22,320 Old years, old patriot dream 756 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:27,320 That sings beyond the years 757 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:35,320 I loud a bastard said his dream 758 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:42,320 Undemmed by human tears 759 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:48,320 America, America 760 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:54,320 God shed His grace only 761 00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:02,320 And crowned with brotherhood 762 00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,320 From sin to sin 763 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:16,320 And crowned with brotherhood 764 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:25,320 From sin to shining sea 765 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:41,320 Oh, beautiful 766 00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:02,320 I'm the way of love, great