All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio.
This is Veterans Radio.
And now your host for today's program, Dale Throneberry.
Hey, welcome to Veterans Radio.
My name is Dale Throneberry, a CW-2 helicopter pilot type person from, wow, many, many years
ago, 1968-69.
Welcome to our program today.
I think some really great guests.
Number one is Hopad Sek and she's going to be talking about the prepping for the next
fight and we're going to be talking about some of the major changes that the various
services are going through and as they move into the future and look at different weaponry
and recruiting and so on and so forth.
So I think that's going to be really interesting.
And in the second half of the program, we're going to be talking about universal service
and national service, that is, and I think you'll find that really interesting.
It was an idea, well, I mean, it's been an idea proposed forever.
And as a result of the volunteer army, we know that the numbers have gone down as far
as recruiting is concerned.
And so this idea was first proposed by Colonel Jack Jacobs, a Medal of Honor recipient, Vietnam
veteran back in 2013.
And we're trying to see if we can get some traction behind this.
So we're going to be talking about universal national service in the second half of the
program and if you'd like to get in on the conversation on either end of the program,
you can give us a call live at 734-822-1600.
734-822-1600.
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All right, let's get right into our program right now.
My guest is Hope Hodgson.
She is a writer on military issues.
She's based out of Washington for those that have watched the Veterans Radio or listened
to Veterans Radio over the year.
Hope was on before when she was the managing editor for military.com.
Her previous assignments have included a war zone embedded in Afghanistan with the Marines,
multiple reporting trips aboard amphibious ships and aircraft carriers.
Her awards include multiple North Carolina Press Association honors in 2015 and 2017
Corps Heritage Foundation.
I know a lot of wars.
Just know there's a great writer and this is an expert, a real expert on what's going
on in the military today.
So Hope, welcome back to Veterans Radio.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, you know, when I got my my magazine, the magazine that I'm talking about right
now is from the Military Officers Association of America.
It's their magazine and on the very cover, I'm sorry, we're not doing this with video,
but we should.
It says prepping for the next fight.
Find out what's in store this year for our uniform services.
And we're going to talk about all the services a little bit today.
I hope you don't mind.
And how did you come about writing this article?
So I love working with Military Officer Magazine.
I write for a lot of different outlets, but they are one of my favorite clients because
they are very forward looking when it comes to how best to serve the military and veterans
community.
And in fact, they have, I was just looking it up now, I think, 360,000 members in Military
Officer Association of America.
So this is a regular feature they do where they take a look forward at what matters most
to the different military services, both for operational things, equipment, deployments,
but also really practical things like pay and benefits and healthcare.
So this is a regular feature and I was really honored to do it for them.
Well, it's a really interesting article for one thing.
And with all the turmoil that was involved with that particular senator who didn't want
to let the newest commanders of all the various branches of the service get through this committee,
everybody seemed to hit it all at the same time in November, I think it was.
And so let's start off with the Army.
So I'm looking here as the Army really is mostly a concern that looks like with radical
recruiting overall, their numbers are so down.
That's right.
And the Army, of course, that's the largest military service.
So they tend to have, you know, the things that all the services are struggling, they
have kind of the biggest proportion of.
And this past end of the fiscal year, they missed their recruiting goal for a second
time in a row on active duty sessions.
And that's a big deal.
Now they are being really aggressive about how to get after this.
And they've already rolled out some elements of what they're calling a recruiting transformation.
They're looking at populations that they haven't reached as well as they could in urban environments,
in places in the US that they haven't had as much of a reach as they would like to.
Now to connect with the younger generation, the interests and concerns of Gen Z are different
from millennials and those are certainly different from Gen Xers.
And this is a little peek into the future.
I have it on good authority that the Army is about to roll out a whole new tranche of
recruiting initiatives in the next month or so here.
So I don't have a lot of details on that yet, but that's definitely something to keep an
eye on.
Are you talking incentives?
You know, I would love to know the details of that because everyone wants to know where
the bonuses are.
I have heard though, because I've been in these conversations with recruiting officials
and in fact we're going to do a deep dive on recruiting for military officer magazine
and an upcoming issue, that the services are aware that they can't just keep pouring
incentive money at this problem.
Bonuses are not the long-term permanent solution, so I think you're going to see some more outside
the box thinking.
Yeah, I would think so.
And I know that in the article you were talking about that they're doing this test program,
I think it was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina.
That's right, where they take these recruits who are not quite up to Army spec and you'll
hear all of the services and certainly at the Army saying we're not lowering standards,
we're not going to change the bar, but taking recruits who might be able to make that bar
but are not making it already, whether it's on height and weight, whether it's on academics
and saying we'll coach you, we'll bring you up to standard.
And so far that's been a pretty successful effort on the part of the Army, so they're
looking to build on and expand that.
I think that sounds, that's really interesting, that sort of like minor leagues or sports.
Exactly.
Or you're going to some of these sport training schools that they have out there because you're
not quite fast enough or you're not quite tall enough or you're not whatever it is,
and then they build you up and then you can take that next step into the program.
I think that sounds like a cool idea.
Yeah, it's like an Army farm team who got to do the Rocky montage and getting ready
for the fight.
Yeah, plus maybe I'm sure they must get paid while they do that.
Yes, that's my understanding.
It's kind of like a pre-boot camp.
Yeah, well, I can hardly wait to do that again.
I don't think so.
So you also mentioned in the article about the Army, their new combat vehicle, this M10
Booker.
Yes, so this has been about a decade in development and we're finally seeing some action on turning
it into a reality.
Now Army combat vehicles in general, they or any military service, these things don't
move fast and even the relatively rapid progress takes years.
Something interesting to look at that goes beyond the scope of the story is the various
services are looking at ways to integrate hybrid and electric technology.
So I don't know if you'll see that directly for the Booker, but they're considering the
options there and certainly looking ahead to future combat vehicles.
It sounds like a really cool vehicle.
It's kind of a mini tank.
I'm reading from the article here.
We're talking with Hope Hodgseck who wrote this article and I thought it was so cool
because the Booker is named after a Medal of Honor recipient, a Private Robert D. Booker
who died in World War II and a Distinguished Service Cross-Resipient Staff Sergeant, Stefan
Booker who unfortunately passed away from his injuries in Operation Iraqi Fury.
So I didn't get a chance to look it up and go, Jesus, these guys are related.
I don't know if they are or not.
I'll have to check it out.
But it said that it looks like a smaller Abrams tank with its tracks and 105 millimeter gun
turret.
I think that might stop a few people on the way.
Substantial firepower in the fight.
Yeah.
I think that that's kind of cool.
And so for those of you that are listening and want to find out more about it, just go
and type into Google M10 Booker.
See what it comes over.
It's kind of a cool picture of what it looks like.
It's in the magazine.
So moving on from the Army, let's go to the Marine Corps, which I thought was really
interesting in that the Marine Corps is kind of transitioning away from their own, their
tanks and focusing more on, I don't know, it sounded like, what's the word I'm looking
for?
I just forgot it.
Age related problems come along here once in a while.
More individual training than not utilizing the tank aspect of it.
That's right.
Well, the Marine Corps is officially tank free as a service.
They've divested of all of their tanks and they are looking to get lighter and leaner.
And this has been a subject of some controversy on Capitol Hill.
There are certainly folks and particularly in the retired ranks, retired general officers
who say the Marine Corps is changing too much, too fast, getting rid of infantry components,
various capabilities.
But the Marine Corps is looking forward to that future fight.
And they want to be able to send small units for island hopping operations in the Pacific
to be able to operate independently when they can't get quick resupply.
They want to transport on ospreys and vehicles that can fit inside ospreys.
And they're really looking at creative ways to sustain that kind of light, agile fighter.
And the Marine Corps, as I'm sure you know, is very, very concerned about its own identity
as separate capability from the Army as something that no other service offers as kind of this
hybrid amphibious force that it's always been.
And this is the picture that they've come up with.
And it's now a couple of Commandants who have kind of sustained this vision and it is moving
forward into the future.
Well, in the article, you talk about them seemingly concentrating more on the South Pacific part
of the world.
And, you know, I guess letting the Army take care of the Army and the rest of them take
care of the Middle East.
But is this something that is part of this overhaul of the Marines?
Absolutely.
And the Marine Corps will tell you that some of the biggest potential future fights, future
adversaries are right there in the Pacific.
You think about China, which is a technological and geopolitical threat and increasingly very
capable investing in its military capacity.
And then there are unstable actors out there like North Korea.
So even though the Middle East continues to pop up as a center of conflict, as we've seen
even recently, the Marine Corps is making a big bet that the future sort of of the big
near-peer power struggle is going to be in the Pacific.
Yeah, we've had guests on Vets and Radio recently that talked about that that's an area we really
need to concentrate our attention on because it's pretty a dangerous area.
I mean, so many parts of the world are dangerous right now, but this is something that could
potentially cause us problems in the not too distant future.
In talking about not just the Marine Corps.
So the Navy, this I found was really interesting.
So we got the Navy with the first female top officer ever, Admiral Lisa of French Eddy.
And so she's in charge of the whole deal.
That's pretty cool.
That's right.
And she comes with some impressive bona fides.
You know, she's she's been out in the fleet.
She commanded sailors underway at a very high level and in general, she's just an impressive
sailor to serve under.
So as you mentioned or alluded to earlier, there was this lengthy hold on nominations
of officers for promotion.
She was part of that.
So her ascending to the position of Chief of Naval Operations was somewhat delayed,
but she's now in place and the Navy is leading the way.
They are leading the way.
And they're well, you know, you we mentioned earlier on that there are things going on
in the Middle East and, you know, around the Red Sea and this was canal and so forth.
And there are two Navy carriers there right now.
The we got the Gerald R. Ford and the Dwight D. Eisenhower are there.
And I'm sure that many of those retaliatory flights are taking off from those aircraft
carriers.
Not only that.
So that was a very, very fast response from the Navy.
And on behalf of the whole Defense Department, the Navy was sort of the Ford arm of that
response following the October 7 attacks by Hamas on Israel to get out into the med to
have a carrier presence to say we are here and we are responsive and we are at the ready.
Since even that sort of that story that I put together at the end of the year, we have
seen the Navy be a very prominent actor in defense.
So there are a number of Navy ships, destroyers and cruisers that have very, very successfully
blocked, defended and returned fire against Houthi rebels out of Yemen who are to as best
we know, acting on behalf of Hamas in sending out missiles toward Navy assets.
So the Navy has acquitted itself very, very excellently so far has just demonstrated its
ability to maintain dominance in this area and to respond as needed.
I think it's really concerning, I guess you can say to me, as people that prod us and
you're prodding us, we've got the biggest stick, I guess you could say, out there.
And from a political standpoint, I guess it comes down to, we have to be careful because
we don't want to have this whole thing erupt into World War III or anything along those
lines, but we still can't allow these small groups that are being supported by other states
to hold up the business of transferring goods through the Suez Canal or through the Red
Sea and so forth.
And I think that all of these small little organizations that, I don't know about you,
but I wouldn't want to take on an aircraft carrier or a destroyer or anything along those
lines because you know that you have to know that they're going to retaliate and they're
going to retaliate three times, 30 times over what you can do.
That's right.
The Navy always wants to maintain overmatch.
And that goes for all of the services, but they're the power in the seas, no doubt.
Well, yeah, I mean, we go all the way back to the Rosevout with the big stick thing.
So okay, so we're moving, trying to move along.
I don't want to lose you when we're talking.
So oh, I know the other thing I wanted to ask you about was the ghost fleet.
The ghost fleet, yes.
So this is really wild.
You know, the Navy, not unlike the Air Force with this boneyard, has a number of ships
that are always, that are sort of in this in-between area where they've been, they're
out of commission, but they're not in the scrap heap yet.
And so it proposals every once in a while come up to say, hey, can we reactivate some
of these ships and add to our numbers?
And the Navy for several years now has been very, very preoccupied with how many ships
do we need in our overall fleet?
And what is that number and how do we get to it?
Because building ships in the shipyard is very cost-intensive, but even more than that,
very time-intensive.
And there are a limited number of shipyards to draw from.
And so building more ships adding to the fleet faster than the Navy can retire old ships
has been just a really difficult problem for the Navy for a while.
So that's where this kind of concept comes from.
I just thought that was interesting.
Ghost fleet is like floating around out there some long, you know, with the pirate ships
and so forth.
Moving out more out there, but it sounds like they're trying to upgrade these ships without
building new ones.
Exactly.
That's a proposal on the table.
I'm not sure where it will go.
Another thing to pay attention to is the Navy building unmanned ships.
So they're cheaper.
They tend to be smaller.
But if you can predict their movements, make sure they're capable and you're controlling
them, that's a way that the service is also pursuing to build out its fleet to the desired
number.
That's kind of interesting.
It's sort of like the pizza guys in our town with their robot delivery vehicles trying
to see how that works.
All right.
That's cool.
I like that.
All right.
And they're sort of increasing their special ops training.
And one of the things in the article, we are, as I mentioned before, we're talking with
a Pope Hodge Sector article is in them, the Military Officers Association of America's
magazine called the Military Officer Never Stop Serving.
And she's kind of taken a look at each of the military services and what we can anticipate
with the upcoming year.
So we've gone through the Army and Marine Corps and the Navy.
Now let's go to the Air Force.
And the Air Force is increasing their special ops training where they're holding training
exercises with the Army's 160th Special Operations Aviation Union.
Those are the guys that take the SEAL team six people around on their missions.
And so it sounds like that the Air Force wants to get more involved in that.
Yeah.
A very, very exciting concept.
I always am interested personally when I see the services looking for opportunities to
be what you might call joint.
I think very often they get siloed.
So they are reinventing the wheel or doing the same thing in kind of different colored
iterations.
But I also believe that this kind of combined effort is reflective of what they're anticipating
for the future fight, which is opportunities for the services to lean on each other's capabilities
and to draw on what's available.
Again, as we were talking about with the Marine Corps, looking to operate in sort of austere
areas where there's not a fancy base with a KFC inside.
You know, you have things where the Air Force might be using Army assets or vice versa.
Another piece of the overall Air Force vision puzzle is what they call Agile Combat Employment.
Again, they've been rolling this out over the last few years.
And again, that's the ability for aircraft and squadrons to sort of bunny hop to austere
areas like the Pacific, use the available resources, whether they belong to the Army
or the Navy or what have you, and deploy force in kind of like a hub and spoke way to reach
further out with their power.
It sounds certainly it sounds reasonable and I would think it'd be very cost effective
if they're working together on some of these things.
I know there's duplication as far as weaponry and so on and so forth.
But if, you know, for instance, if the Marines can't don't have enough people somewhere,
then the Army could add to it or the Air Force could come in before the Navy has the opportunity
to get their planes on station types of things.
I think that's really, really kind of a really efficient.
The other thing that the Air Force is doing that you mentioned is that they have a new
new jet coming out.
What is it?
The sixth generation fighter is taking shape replacing the F 22 Raptor.
Can you tell us a little bit about what's coming out with that?
Yes.
So this is the end guide, the next generation air dominance.
And this is the the exciting new thing.
Now I feel like I say this a lot and have already said this, but these these efforts
are years in the making and we sort of get little scraps and pictures of what these next
capabilities might be.
But we don't yet have a sixth generation fighter aircraft anywhere in the US military.
There have been only two fifth generation fighters.
There's the F 35, which the Air Force, the Navy and the Marine Corps have.
And there's the F 22, which was a which is an Air Force program that was cut short in
terms of production.
So there is a limited number of F 22s.
Now when you talk about the capabilities for, you know, the kind of the next level Air Force
fighters.
There's a lot less of sort of like the the dog fighting maneuvers that we think about
with, you know, Tom Cruise and and top done and and his F 14 Tomcat.
And it's much more about being networked in the sky.
So you have just an unprecedented view of the battlefield and everything in it and everything
is talking to each other and you can sneak up on the enemy well before they're they're
aware that you're in the area.
I think one of the things that that kind of, you know, attaching to that is to talk a little
bit about what the Space Force is up to with their and I didn't want to leave them out.
That's that they're focusing on positioning navigation time and electromagnetic warfare.
Oh, big word.
Yes.
The Space Force is fundamentally different than any other service out there and they're
leaning into that.
You recall that they date back only to December of 2020.
So they just passed their three year anniversary three year birthday and they are they don't
have a lot of well, you know, they they're not deploying to space.
They've got acquisition folks and and satellite controllers.
It's highly technical.
And yet this is becoming an increasingly important part of warfare is just maintaining dominance
in in space and in sort of the the electromagnetic realm and everything that we can't see.
So you're still seeing a Space Force looking for different ways to organize that makes
sense for for its specific needs and for them, its specific mission, which is unlike any
of the other services.
And what I think is just, you know, and based on what we were saying about, you know, the
Navy is trying to figure out where everything is and then you got the Space Force is above
them and they could be working with all the different branches of the service and saying,
OK, the bad guys are over here.
And, you know, they have the ability to direct you toward wherever the action might be.
Correct.
Yeah.
OK, finally, I'm going to I need to get into the Coast Guard a little bit.
This is my father's branch of the service.
And it's not that they have a whole lot of things that are going on, but they do this
is the Coast Guard.
And then this is something I didn't know before.
The only service that can work in ice locked waters and they now they're they're getting
a new icebreaker.
Yes, this is at long last.
And not many people know this about the Coast Guard.
And I'll shout out to my father-in-law, who is also a career coastie.
But but the Coast Guard is the only service that possesses this icebreaker capability.
They've got two icebreakers, the Polar Star and the Healy.
They're both incredibly old, should have retired a long time ago and are more and more difficult
to keep up and keep moving through the ice.
And at the same time, these these ice locked kind of Arctic northern waters are more important
than they've ever been before because you've got competition from Russia, you've got competition
from China.
There are folks in that space who who haven't been as interested before who are trying to
claim it, you know, for for their power.
So so the Coast Guard, this, I think they call it the Polar Security Cutter.
It's been they've been fighting for funding for it for a long time.
It's moving forward in in a really healthy way.
I think the design is finalized and they're they're getting the money that they need.
So this is great news for the service and it's been I think if there's been anything
that the Coast Guard has been asking for on Capitol Hill for the last few years, it's
it's for this this Polar Security Cutter to be what they needed to be.
I think just got this is a great article focus.
I encourage you.
I don't know where we could find it online.
I suppose you could probably find it somewhere out there.
I'd have to look for it.
I mean, I'm a member of this organization.
So that's how I come.
I got the magazine.
We have been talking with with a whole pod sec.
And there's there's a couple of other servers that unfortunately we don't have time to go
into and I would love to have you come back and talk a little bit more about the National
Ocean Ocean, Oceanic and Asthmospheric Administration and finally US Public Service.
I don't think people are aware of these branches of the service.
But I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us here on Veterans Radio
today and keep writing these great articles.
Hope, you know, you're a it's it's it's it's it's great to have somebody that can explain
these things to people like me and to many people in our audience.
There's so many things that are going on.
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been a pleasure.
Thank you.
We'll talk to you soon.
All right.
So that's hope.
And now we're going to go on to another story.
But first we're going to do our Medal of Honor.
And when we come back from our Medal of Honor segment, we are going to be talking with Bill
Graham of Marine, my generation of a Marine, and he's going to be talking about the case
for Universal National Service.
This is going to be kind of interesting, folks.
So you're listening to Veterans Radio and we will be right back.
The Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor and combat given a member of the Armed
Forces of the United States.
There have been over 3400 recipients of the nation's highest award.
This is one of them.
First Lieutenant Jack Jacobs, although seriously wounded, made repeated trips across an open
rice paddy evacuating wounded and their weapons.
Details after this.
If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for
Veterans at 1-800-693-4800.
They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims.
Their number again, 1-800-693-4800.
Jacobs served as an assistant battalion advisor in Kien Phong Province, Republic of Vietnam.
The battalion was advancing when it came under intense heavy machine gun and mortar fire.
Jacobs called for and directed airstrikes on enemy positions.
Due to the intensity of the enemy fire and heavy casualties to the command group, including
the company commander, the attack stopped and the friendly troops became disorganized.
Wounded by mortar fragments, Jacobs assumed command of the company, ordered a withdrawal
from the exposed position and established a defensive perimeter.
Despite heavy bleeding from head wounds that impaired his vision, Jacobs returned under
intense fire to evacuate a seriously wounded advisor to safety, where he administered life-saving
first aid.
He then returned through heavy automatic weapons fire to evacuate the wounded company commander.
Jacobs made repeated trips across the fire-swept open rice paddies, evacuating wounded and their
weapons.
On three separate occasions, Jacobs drove off Viet Cong squads who were searching for
Allied wounded and weapons, single-handedly killing three and wounding several others.
His actions saved the lives of a U.S. advisor and 13 Allied soldiers.
The Medal of Honor series is a production of Veterans Radio.
Military veterans touch everyone's life.
I'm guessing right now you're thinking of a veteran, a close friend, relative.
Maybe it's you.
Even the toughest among us sometimes need help, but don't know where to turn for support.
You don't need special training to help a veteran in your life.
If you know a veteran in crisis, don't wait.
Reach out.
Call the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, then press 1.
988, press 1.
A message from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.
And we're back here on Veterans Radio, and my guest coming up is Bill Graham.
Bill is a Marine, Vietnam-era Marine, and I'm anxious to talk to Bill about the idea
of this case for Universal National Service.
So Bill, welcome to Veterans Radio.
Well, thank you, Bill.
Thanks for having me.
Well, it's good to have you on the program.
Just for our audience's sake, I've found Bill because I'm actually trying to get caught
up on reading all of these magazines that we get for these various organizations that
some of us are in, and that's where I found my last guest, Hope.
This one comes from the November-December issue of the VVA Veteran Magazine, and in
it there is the article.
It's called The Case for Universal National Service, and Bill, I guess you were asked
to write an article about this.
Yeah, well, yeah, what I did was back in 2013, I wrote an article and never sent it any
place, and I just put my thoughts on paper after having seen, ironically, Colonel Jack
Jacobs on CNN one day, and he was talking about mandatory service, and that he did not think
that the selective service program we now have should be activated again, in that it
had too much selectiveness as part of it.
And I think that was born out during the Vietnam era that it became too selective.
Yeah, I mean, talking to many of our listeners in our age group, we had a number of options
that we could enlist, that was number one.
We could get drafted if we were still in college and some other ways we could defer our entry
into the service.
And the worst case scenario is the guys who went to Canada.
I have a friend from high school, I think he still was there, I don't think he ever
came back.
But the idea of being is that the argument in your article is that it was a disproportionate
number of people from lower incomes and so forth that were getting caught up in the draft
because they didn't have the means to get deferred.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so many people, they did multiple tours of duty in combat zones and we didn't realize
the effect all that had until years later when the post-traumatic stress became really
at the forefront and suicide rates began to really, really skyrocket.
And that's when it really comes to the surface and we have to examine it.
And selective service, I don't think, I agree with Colonel Jacobson, and I don't think it's
the answer.
And I think personally I believe that the answer lies in service and whether it be the
Peace Corps, AmeriCorps or the military service.
I agree.
I mean, I can remember having discussions even when I was in the service about how do we
become more inclusive?
How do we get more people to understand that it's not just being in the military that's
serving the country.
We need other ways that we need to be aware of what this country provides for us.
Exactly.
You know, John Kennedy type of thing.
And that, you know, it doesn't necessarily, not everybody's cut out to be in the military.
We know that too.
I agree with that.
But there are so many different options that are available.
You know, as you mentioned, the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, you know, Teaching for America,
Conservation Corps and so forth.
And I think what was in the article was implied is that everybody, and we're talking everybody,
men and women that are physically able to participate would donate two years of their
lives to the country, either two years in the service or the other things that we mentioned
there.
And at the end of that two years, if you want to stay in, you can stay in.
You want to get out?
There probably would be some sort of GI bill available to them.
Yes.
In fact, in reading the AmeriCorps and Peace Corps have a stipend at the end of that that
will help reintegrate yourself into whatever field you want to go.
And there's a payment program while you're engaged in that, rightfully so you're not
become a millionaire by doing that, but you will be able to contribute to the country
that we call the United States of America that so many people want to come to.
And we can reduce the divide between us and them, the civilian sector as opposed to the
military sector.
And the two can meet and become the country we want to be.
I agree with you, Bill.
And I think it's, you know, we've got less than one percent of the population is in the
military today.
And there are a lot of people out there who don't have any connection at all to the military
any longer, unless it was their great grandfather.
Exactly.
Yes.
You know, so we've got to figure out, I think we have to make, we need to figure out a way
to make people appreciate what we have.
And you know, politics aside, we won't go into that.
But to, you know, that that we still, in my mind, you know, we're still the greatest
country in the world, I think, not in that other countries aren't great and so forth
in their own way.
But I mean, we're still this experiment, which, you know, I mean, we're the young
kids on the block.
And what are we, 230 some years old?
And you know, that we were offering everybody the opportunity.
And I think that's the magic word there is that opportunity to benefit from living here.
Yes.
And I think everybody should add a little bit to that if they are going to live here.
Right.
Yeah.
And we also have to, as relates to the military, get through to others that just because you
joined the military doesn't mean you're going off and shooting people.
And that is such a misnomer.
And talking with, you know, young folks and those folks who have never joined, well, I
don't want my kid to go off and just be deployed and start shooting this and getting shot himself.
There are so many opportunities in the military.
It's mind boggling, actually.
And if we could get beyond those misnomers, I think we would be, you know, be able to
fill the ranks in which they're having difficulty doing now.
And at the same time, fulfilling some of the social responsibilities that could be done
by not being in the military through the two-year commitment.
Well, you know, the guest I had on earlier before we came on the air and talking with
Hope and she was talking about all the technology that's involved in all the branches of service.
You know, it's not everybody just runs around, as you mentioned, carrying a rifle.
Right.
You know, there are computer experts that are in the field.
I mean, these guys, and you've talked to them as well, you know, they take computers with
them out into the field for communications, for targeting, for updates on weather and
everything else that is out there.
And that's not the only thing.
I mean, they design the weaponry.
They deploy the weaponry.
You've got all these ships.
And I wasn't in the Navy, but I know that there's a lot going on in the ships and other
than jets taking off from aircraft carriers.
That's right.
Yeah, that's that's.
And even in the Marine Corps, and the Marine Corps, you know, has the reputation of, well,
you can come from jail and grab a rifle and go to the Marine Corps.
Well, that's not true.
But, and I can tell you my own story.
I started out as a rifleman in recruit after recruit training until it was discovered I
knew how to type.
It went on from there.
And I spent my life, my career in the personnel administration.
And you know, that goes back to the thing about, you know, what is it that you need
nine to 10 administrative people or support troops for every one person in the field?
Sure.
And again, not every one of those people, you know, is going to run around carrying
a rifle or a pistol and then, you know, whatever that is, but you have to have those support
people to do that.
And the idea then is coming out when you come out of the service.
You have skills.
Skills that you didn't even know you had.
That's right.
That are not related just to, you know, firing guns and rifles and so forth.
Yeah.
And you have a better appreciation for other cultures at the same time because you've been
around other cultures.
If you never leave your city block, that's that becomes your world.
And expand your horizons beyond that and you begin to appreciate other things and other
people.
And but it has so many pluses to it and fewer minuses.
No, I think so.
You know, when you when you look at look back at the all volunteer force that came about
in 1973 as a result of the ineffective draft system that was that was going on at the time.
You know, yes, it was great.
Okay.
Everybody's a volunteer.
But not everybody was in the game.
And not everybody has, you know, forget the terminology, you know, you don't have any
money in the game.
And so, you know, all we're, you know, we're all supportive of the troops that are overseas
and, you know, blah, blah, blah, we, you know, food packages and so forth.
But I think it's it's so much more important, whether it's the military or the Peace Corps
or any of these opportunities that these these young people would have to just serve their
country for these for this two year time period.
And you know, I'm sure that, you know, the negotiations and compromises would allow them,
you know, not necessarily, you know, I think you're you want, oh, I see, here it is.
It's requiring everybody between the ages and 20 18 and 25.
So if you wanted to go to college, you could get college out of the way and then put your
two years in.
Yes.
And if you were, I would say, and it would be a proposal I would make if if you're already
registered for college, go to college, and you would put that two years on hold until
such time as you finished college, then spend your two years and go about your life.
And you can reflect back upon the World War two, folks who came back and had put their
lives on life on hold for however long and carried on some became leaders of the country,
others leaders in the military and went on to corporations.
So it's not the end of things by spending two years of your life dedicated to service
to the country.
No, and I think one of the things that that's, you know, we're we're talking about here
with with Bill Graham and the case for universal national service is that if everybody does
it, if everybody participates in it, then there's no sense of loss by those who do do
it.
And this is just a personal story.
I mean, I can remember, you know, I spent who counted right three years, seven months
and two days in in the service. But when I came home, the guys I had hung around beforehand
who had gotten the deferments were now four years ahead of me career wise.
And that's something that I think that this idea is is attempting to address.
And I just I don't know. Is there any is there anybody else talking about this other than,
you know, a couple of years ago when you were you know, what did you do you had well, well,
the late Charlie Wrangle of New York, he introduced that in 2011.
I guess it didn't go anywhere.
Now it didn't go anywhere.
And then in 2013, there was a house record 748, 113th Universal National Service Act
that was it was introduced.
That was it. It died right there. So, you know, it doesn't have a lot of a lot of traction,
if you will.
How do we go about getting some traction? Do you have any any have you been able to talk
to any politicians who might be willing to support this?
I have not.
No, the idea came up in the Vietnam Veterans Magazine.
And I said, Well, I have some insight on this that I researched previously.
So I sent that off.
And that that's what prompted this interaction today.
But I would certainly not frown at going forth with a proposal to a congressional member.
I think it'd be interesting to see if we'd find a congressional member that would support
this thing.
Yeah, you know, they have to be out there.
I mean, there's still a couple of there are still a couple of veterans that are serving
in Congress.
Yes.
And yeah, and there are there there seems to be more now from Afghanistan and Iraq era
in the legislature now.
So perhaps.
Yeah, you would think that they would be very interested in something like this, especially
those men and women that did the five and six tours.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I can't imagine.
I cannot imagine doing more than one tour.
Yeah, you know, five or six.
I mean, obviously, that's going to add to the to the amount of post-traumatic stress out
there.
It's going to add to the numbers of those 22 a day suicides that are are still going
on.
I have to figure out a way to to to fix this bill and anything that I can do to help you,
I'd be more than glad to get on the train with you and see if we can get this at least
out of the station.
Right.
I'll certainly keep you up to date on any any progress I make.
Okay.
Well, thank you very much.
So we've been talking with Bill Graham, Marine from the Vietnam era and his article in the
VDA, the veteran was called the case for universal national service.
And I encourage everybody to get an opportunity to either read that article or go to our website,
veterans radio dot org.
And we've got some information on how to get at these articles that we've been talking
about today.
Let's see what we can do.
You know, what's your opinion?
You should what do you think?
So shoot me an email.
Let me know.
Set up a group discussion on our program one day and talk about should universal national
service be something that we should be exploring.
So again, Bill Graham, thank you very much for being on the program.
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure.
I love reading these.
These are great stories in all these magazines to all of our listeners.
So, you know, we encourage you to do that.
This week, Jim file song will be here and he's going to be talking with a couple of
veterans for Black History Month.
And we're going to be some of those things like that along the lines.
So this is Dale Throneberry for all of us here at Veterans Radio until next week.
You are dismissed.
Oh beautiful for the spaces guys for
I'm the way of love, great
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruity plain
America, America
God shed His grace only
And crowned with brotherhood
From sin to sin
Old years, old patriot dream
That sings beyond the years
I loud a bastard said his dream
Undemmed by human tears
America, America
God shed His grace only
And crowned with brotherhood
From sin to sin
And crowned with brotherhood
From sin to shining sea
Oh, beautiful
I'm the way of love, great