1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,640 All across America and around the world, this is Veterans Radio. 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,920 This is Veterans Radio. 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Welcome to Veterans Radio. 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,560 I am Jim Fossone. 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,880 I'm the officer of the deck today. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,760 We've got some great programs for you. 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,760 I think you'll find very interesting. 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:34,640 We always want to remind you you can find more about Veterans Radio at its Facebook site 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,680 or at the web. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:43,120 VeteransRadio.org is our new URL, VeteransRadio.org. 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,520 Where we're on the web 24-7, you can find a lot of our podcasts there as well. 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:55,080 We post new ones every Tuesday, so you can get a new story, a new interview, 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,960 something you didn't know before by going to VeteransRadio.org. 14 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:04,240 And before we get started, we want to thank our sponsors. 15 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:13,680 First up, we want to thank National Veteran Business Development Council, NVBDC.org. 16 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:19,360 It was established to certify both service disabled and veteran-owned businesses. 17 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:25,920 You'll find out how they can help your business by going to NVBDC.org. 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,360 We want to thank Legal Help for Veterans. 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:35,000 Legal Help for Veterans fights for veterans disability rights all across the nation. 20 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:46,680 You can reach them at 800-693-4800 or on the web at LegalHelpForVeterans.com. 21 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,680 We want to welcome to VeteransRadio today Marine Retired, 22 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Gunny Sarge and Twyla Rochelle Cawthon. 23 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,120 Welcome to VeteransRadio. 24 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,720 Thank you so much. I'm a Marine veteran. That's fine. Thank you. 25 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,880 Well, there are always Marines, right? It never really ends. 26 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:14,560 And you actually have a tremendous legacy of service, post-active duty in the Marine Corps, 27 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,640 you're a retired educator, you're very active with the American Legion, 28 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:24,800 you're very active with Girl State, you're an active member of the East Coast Marine Corps 29 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,720 Drill Instructors Association, and you're a Steelers fan. 30 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,320 So we could talk about all of those things. 31 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,760 Oh, that's cool. 32 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:43,240 But what we're going to talk about is your relationship with the National Association 33 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,480 of Black Military Women. 34 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:53,040 You're the chaplain for the Brooklyn, New York Division of the National Association 35 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,520 of Black Military Women. 36 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:01,960 But before we get into that, how did a nice kid like you from Ohio and Pennsylvania area, 37 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,960 I think, end up in the Marine Corps? 38 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:12,800 Well, I had a finish on my credits for school, and all the colleges that were trying to reach 39 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,480 out to me were colleges that were out of the state. 40 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:21,120 My father has one child on his earth, me, and he wasn't going to let me leave all the state. 41 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:28,160 And I was a student that was active in school, and I had held a host event every year at 42 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,000 the school, where we had different people coming in and talking about careers. 43 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,960 And I was actually friends with the Marine recruiter downtown. 44 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,240 Now the Marine recruiter had no idea that I was going to come down there. 45 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,720 I actually went to the Army recruiter, but he wasn't talking right. 46 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:53,880 So I ended up joining the Marines when my recruiter was Jesse Ferrison III, one of 47 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,880 the best recruiters ever, because he didn't lie. 48 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:02,560 Well, it's really surprising how many people I talked to who had good recruiters, and remember 49 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,880 their name and stayed with them the whole time, stayed connected. 50 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Now, how long did you serve in the Marine Corps, Gunny Sergeant? 51 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 A few months of 12 years. 52 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:19,560 I went in in 1979, and I got out in 1991. 53 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,960 And as I said, you've had a really impressive career post-service. 54 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,720 Give us a little thumbnail, maybe flesh in some of the things I mentioned that you want 55 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:29,720 to highlight. 56 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:30,720 Let's see. 57 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,440 I was a, as you mentioned, I'm a retired educator. 58 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,680 I was former police officer. 59 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:44,360 I'm a decorate police officer in Akron, had two life-saving missions that I actually received 60 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:45,680 accommodation for. 61 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,520 Let's see. 62 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,200 I belong to the American Legion. 63 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,520 I am the past department commander in Washington, D.C. 64 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:01,480 I am the national chaplain, which is the sky pilot for the 24, which is the American Legion 65 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,440 Women's Honorary Society. 66 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:10,400 The first graduate of the National American Legion College from the District of Columbia 67 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:19,320 I belong to AmVetts, DAV, Women's Veterans Alliance, Micro Point Marines, National Association 68 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:26,640 of Black Military, Women, of course, but National Black Veterans, NetVetts, and just a host of 69 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:32,240 a, I can't even name all the different things I belong to, and I actually put time in them. 70 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:38,640 It's not just the name on the rolls for them, but yes, we do a whole lot of advocacy for 71 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:39,640 homeless veterans. 72 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:50,200 I deal with trying to sculpt out pieces of executive orders or to try to get a focus 73 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:56,320 on military sexual trauma and PTSD, and not just that for the veteran, but some therapy 74 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:01,360 services for the veteran's family members who are also disaffected, because that's the 75 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:07,480 population that people are ignoring the children that live up in these households. 76 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,920 These households, so it's just a whole lot of things, homelessness with veterans, homelessness 77 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,920 with women veterans is on the rise. 78 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,280 In fact, we're the largest population of homeless women on the street are women veterans. 79 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:21,680 They can't take their children in the shelters with them. 80 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,320 They can't take their, oftentimes they can't take their spouses, their spouses were not 81 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,320 veterans as well. 82 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,160 It's just a whole lot of things. 83 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,600 So this is a whole lot that we're dealing with and we just try to do piece by piece. 84 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,000 And that's the Association of Black Military Women. 85 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,000 That's really what it is. 86 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,560 It's focusing about trying to make veterans whole. 87 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Well, it's such an important organization because there is an increase in women in the 88 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,400 military, thus an increase in women veterans. 89 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:57,360 There's certainly a high percentage of African Americans make up the military forces today. 90 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,920 I think it's something like 19% of the troops and women make up about 16% of the troops, 91 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:08,440 but there's a disparity in the number of officers, black officers. 92 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,440 I think it's 9% as compared to 19% of the troops. 93 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,680 So there's still a whole lot of work to do and you've probably seen that progression 94 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,840 since you joined up in 1979, but talk about some of the work that still needs to be done 95 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,880 and that the National Association of Black Military Women are working on. 96 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Need to increase the input of qualified young black men and young black women to join the 97 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:41,520 military and join officer ranks as well because where you might have numbers coming in on 98 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:47,240 the listed side, officer ranks start getting thin after they are 03s. 99 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,280 And by the time you come to the field grade or general grade, you can count them on one 100 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,360 hand. 101 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,560 And I thought that I would see an increase in the Marine Corps as far as overall officer 102 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,720 improvement of minorities period. 103 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,640 And there's an increase, the largest increase for Hispanics, but blacks and Asians, the 104 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,360 numbers went down. 105 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:15,800 And some of this is just getting enough folks in the funnel, but then as they go up in years 106 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:21,680 at, you know, as you say, you stayed till 12 years, those next eight or so are the ones 107 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,560 where you've got to get the right kind of assignments and you got to know the right 108 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,560 people. 109 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:33,480 It is a numbers game, but there's clearly also a bias that exists in life in general, 110 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,480 but also in the military, isn't there? 111 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,480 It's true. 112 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,800 As a matter of fact, the officers that were black that I served with, and one of them was 113 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:48,320 actually Arthur Ash's brother, Johnny Ash, who was a captain at Camp Lejeune who couldn't 114 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,720 seem to get past captain and ended up getting out of the Marine Corps as a captain along 115 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,360 with Captain Larry Ray Sims. 116 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,360 And I'm calling these persons out by name because these are phenomenal black men who 117 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:07,840 had excellent quality degrees from upper echelon schools and high scores, but they could not 118 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,320 seem to get past that wall. 119 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,240 And there was a study that was out some years ago where black officers were interviewed 120 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,440 and were asked about black Marine officers. 121 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,840 And they said that the biggest thing is that I'm asked to be twice as good or three times 122 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,600 as better as my peer. 123 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,520 And I'm also asked that I have to assembly, I have to acclimate, I have to make all the 124 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,960 adjustments in life in order to even be considered. 125 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,400 And so that was tough. 126 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:43,280 And for me, being where I worked in every place I was assigned, even though I was enlisted, 127 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:48,600 we as enlisted people were able to help the black officers better than they could actually 128 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:49,600 help us. 129 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,600 You know. 130 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:59,320 And, you know, this is a problem that exists in the country as people don't necessarily 131 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:05,760 appreciate the work and the quality of individuals. 132 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,880 But let me go back to a comment you made about enough qualified young black men and women 133 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,640 entering the service. 134 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,080 And I, you know, I ask a lot of folks this question because we have a current recruiting 135 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,600 crisis in all of those services, maybe Marines a little less. 136 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,920 But otherwise, we're kind of falling short of our manpower goals. 137 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:35,640 And are we doing enough to encourage qualified young black men and women to see the opportunities 138 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,360 that exist in a military service? 139 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,080 No, we're not. 140 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,200 And that's because there's a lot of factors. 141 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:50,720 One corporate America offers higher salaries and better opportunities in a lot of ways. 142 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,240 You have a lot of people who might have family members that were service members and they 143 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:01,360 see their parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles who try to apply for their disability 144 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,640 cases have to go through all types of red tape only to be denied year after year after 145 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:07,840 year. 146 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,800 And so they're kind of chagrin as to wow, so you give this time of your life and this 147 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,040 part of your life to the military. 148 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,640 This is how they do you. 149 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,600 And that's just across the board as well, because that's not only just the experience 150 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,280 of black civilian men and women, but everyone. 151 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:29,320 And then the climate of this country, the question is, what does it mean to be patriotic? 152 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,760 We're in a, and we have been, I'll say, for the past, I'm going to say probably about 153 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:41,480 14 years in a great divide as far as loyalty and patriotism to this country and what that 154 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:51,240 really means because there's so much of divide between the political factions, extreme ideologies 155 00:11:51,240 --> 00:12:00,920 on both sides, the biases that we see in media reporting and the overall prison of pipeline 156 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:08,120 system that's taken our young people at an early age and no correction in sight. 157 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,480 When you can't get qualified urban, and I was taught in the urban community, and I was 158 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,040 thinking about how many students I actually taught that by the time they got out of high 159 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:22,080 school within the next year were eligible to have even considered applying for the military. 160 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,720 And the numbers are low and short, some because they couldn't have passed the test or passed 161 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:33,000 the number so low, others because they wouldn't have passed the psychological because they 162 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,160 are traumatized. 163 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:42,160 They're not trauma services for the communities when, and when tragedies occur. 164 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:47,520 How do you think a child feels if in the summertime someone gets shot on my sidewalk in my house 165 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,720 or in my area in my house or in the sidewalk in my neighborhood not to walk back and forth 166 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,200 this same sidewalk in the fall to school? 167 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,640 And I have to deal with that thinking, am I going to get shot going to school or am I 168 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,680 going to get a straight bullet going to school or just any number of things. 169 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:06,440 I'm at home in the house and the straight bullet comes in the house and hits and kills 170 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,240 one of the persons in their household. 171 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:14,200 There isn't any trauma therapy for these people and this is where we're recruiting supposedly 172 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,200 the next generation of service members and this just not happened. 173 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,000 Yeah, it really is. 174 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,240 There are a lot of factors as to why the recruiting goals are missed and those are certainly some 175 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,240 of them. 176 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:33,720 But you pose the question and this is certainly an American Legion statement coming out of 177 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,320 you I think when you asked what does it mean to be patriotic because that's sort of at 178 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,480 the core of it all. 179 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,080 Do you owe something to the country? 180 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Does the country owe something to you? 181 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:50,520 What do you view as, what's your answer, Twila, to the question of what does it mean to be 182 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,800 patriotic? 183 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,440 For me, it's loyalty to this country even if I don't agree with all the policies that 184 00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,840 are in place. 185 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280 I've seen enough places in the world to know that this is the country that I want to live 186 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,280 in. 187 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,960 I was born here, I live here, I like to travel outside of here but this is where, this is 188 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,160 it for me. 189 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,960 I've seen other systems and other places. 190 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:18,320 I think that we have not progressed as far as we should have with certain groups of people 191 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,640 in this country. 192 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,760 And that makes it hard when you're trying to translate this idea of patriotism to other 193 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:31,200 people but I think that it starts in your household. 194 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:37,480 You have to come from a household where people actually have a view of this country that 195 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:42,720 in spite of, we still got to work, we still got to, and the historical context of the 196 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,200 people who laid the groundwork for us before. 197 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,280 I stay on the shoulders of the women from the 688. 198 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,960 I stay on these women's shoulders. 199 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:57,120 That's an incredible story and veteran radio listeners, if you don't know about the 688, 200 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,200 I've got a podcast interview on that, go search it. 201 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,120 It's an incredible story from World War II. 202 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,800 Yes, indeed. 203 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:13,040 And the fact that if these women had not sacrificed in spite of how long would it have taken for 204 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,600 black women to being able to serve this country in any branch. 205 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:24,480 But my father was a veteran and all of my father's male siblings served in some capacity 206 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,840 in law and then were in the Army. 207 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,880 And so it was for me something I grew up with. 208 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,080 I grew up with it and it was in the household. 209 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:37,960 It was in my community. 210 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:45,440 But of course now coming through an era where you see these Vietnam service members, it 211 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,720 was a conflicted time, but I also had relatives that served in World War II. 212 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,120 And I will listen to the banter between the two groups. 213 00:15:54,120 --> 00:16:01,480 To be a patriot means that you're not here to harm your community or harm the members 214 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,360 in your community in any form or fashion or those in society. 215 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,720 To be a patriot means you need to be a law abiding citizen, law abiding. 216 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:11,720 Law abiding. 217 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:18,040 To be a patriot, you need to be productive whatever your intelligences allow you to 218 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,840 do whatever your physical capabilities allow you to do to be a contributor to the success 219 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,440 in your household, in your neighborhood, in your community. 220 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:35,320 To me, that's patriotism, being patriotic because I'm not here to say that I agree with 221 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,520 everything in our government. 222 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:43,080 And there are times that one party says something and I'm just cringing and I'm really just 223 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,040 clicked out in different directions and opposite side as well. 224 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,920 I don't think any party left or right, A, B, C, or D has all the answers. 225 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:59,720 But I do make my point to stay involved with seeing what issues are at hand. 226 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,960 And although I can't do the correction at maybe at the national level, what can we do 227 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,200 at our local levels? 228 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,880 And that's where I think the mark is being missed. 229 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,480 People don't understand the importance of local government. 230 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,160 Yeah, Gunny, I think you're right. 231 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,600 It starts in the home and local communities. 232 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:22,480 If your local community doesn't recognize and support military service, as you say, 233 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:29,560 being law abiding, then it's unlikely that the community is going to be supportive of 234 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,040 military service. 235 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:38,480 You went from being in the Marines, career in policing, career in education. 236 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,920 Did you get the opportunity to use the GI Bill to get some of your education? 237 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,520 Unfortunately, and this is where information doesn't get passed well. 238 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,640 When I joined, they had stopped the GI Bill and they had this program called the VEEK 239 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:53,640 program. 240 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,600 Oh yeah, that was a horrible one. 241 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,120 Pretty much so because I could not benefit from it, although if you paid the amount, 242 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:07,280 what happened was that when I went to college, I was fortunate enough to get a lot of scholarships. 243 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,160 I got all kinds of scholarships for academics. 244 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,640 I got tons of scholarships. 245 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,400 I got a scholarship for broadcasting. 246 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:18,280 I had all kinds of scholarships because when they used my education benefit, what they 247 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,960 did was they sent me a $114 check a month. 248 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,680 And I was not able to access the other benefits that they had put in, although I found out 249 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,720 afterwards that I should have been able to cross over to, I think, with a monk, a G.I. 250 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:35,720 Bill. 251 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,720 It was, yeah. 252 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,720 That was next. 253 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,720 Minecumry was next, yep. 254 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,720 They did not tell us. 255 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,800 Some of the units did not tell you. 256 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:43,880 They did not know. 257 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,160 And my chagrin is that the VA does not allow you to go back and grandfather the people 258 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,320 who did not get the word. 259 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,520 We didn't get the information. 260 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,560 That's really why it's important that the work that the VSOs do, such as the American 261 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:04,840 Legion's VFW, DAV, because it's a complex set of benefits that veterans have. 262 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,120 And it changes over time. 263 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,960 And what didn't work at one point might work later on. 264 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,440 And you need somebody who knows what they're talking about to help guide you. 265 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:22,080 And the other thing I find is, when you tell an 18-year-old or a 24-year-old kid what 266 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,280 his benefits are, they're not even hearing you. 267 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,240 So it's really important when it's time to really look at these things to go back. 268 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,040 And that's why your work with the American Legion and some of the other groups you've 269 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,000 mentioned is so important. 270 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,520 And I suspect you feel the same way. 271 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,800 I do feel the same way. 272 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:51,640 I just wish that we would see more productive turnaround for claims because they're swamped. 273 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:52,640 They are swamped. 274 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,160 And they're swamped for any number of reasons. 275 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:03,320 I wish that when a person says that I have been sexually assaulted that they don't have 276 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,480 to go through so many people to tell the story over and over again. 277 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,360 I've had women and men whom have been traumatized. 278 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:17,160 And then afterwards they get triggered by telling this person who's typing this stuff 279 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,400 out of listening. 280 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,400 And then I have to go, well, I don't have to, but I go to the hospital and I visit them 281 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,920 or I take them there or talk them down so that they don't go back in that deep place. 282 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:37,360 I wish that we had more physical access locations for some of these veteran service organizations 283 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,240 to have physical structures. 284 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:47,600 I think that if we had communities that really were focused more on veterans affairs and 285 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:54,760 dealing with veterans organizations, national black military women and American Legion, 286 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,200 we have tenants that we actually do community work. 287 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,160 But to try to purchase buildings and maintain buildings is hard. 288 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,640 So that means that we're all stressed out trying to come together for common cause 289 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:10,640 and common goals. 290 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,720 And where we do, the idea is that you have all these vacant buildings in these locations 291 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,800 where we're now proper organizations and there's a whole lot of benefit a community would 292 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:27,160 have by allowing organizations to have these structures, let us rehab them and use them 293 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,880 so that it would be purposeful for the entire community. 294 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,800 And one of the things that can be done with an association like the National Association 295 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:41,080 of Black Military Women or any of the VSOs we've been mentioning is that you have a 296 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:48,120 voice in those associations that's much more powerful than the individual's voice because 297 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:53,880 it's a collective voice and it's heard more in Washington or the state capitals and what 298 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,360 have you. 299 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:05,240 The Association of Black Military Women is recently lending its voice to the issue of 300 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:14,080 the makeup of the US military academies, both West Point and Annapolis. 301 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:22,200 Trying to make sure that appropriate measuring is being done of getting candidates into the 302 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:29,840 service into the academies and that race should remain a factor of some sort in admissions. 303 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,600 Do you want to talk a little bit about the National Association of Black Military Women's 304 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,960 voice on that issue? 305 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,720 Certainly. 306 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:47,560 When you talk about the makeup of the military, our United States armed forces should be a 307 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960 microcosm of our society. 308 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:56,200 And if our society is made up of 13% of one group, then the military should be 13% of 309 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,560 that same group, at least to hit that mark. 310 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:05,440 And when you have students that want to go to Harvard or University of Michigan or University 311 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:13,480 of Akron, you sign papers, you pay the tuition, you go to school, you get your grades and 312 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,480 you get your diploma. 313 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,080 That's what I'm talking about. 314 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,080 I do something, you do something in return. 315 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,600 Even the military, when you go to these military academies, it's a little different. 316 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,720 And this is why the race must be, because the mission of the students who attend military 317 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,760 academy goes beyond the walls of academia. 318 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,840 The persons who sign up to say that I'm going to go to military academy are saying I'm also 319 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,680 signing up to give X number of years of my life in service. 320 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:49,400 When we look at the numbers of persons who serve, we notice that there's a difference. 321 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:55,720 I can speak heartily to this when you find at least one face that looks familiar to you 322 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,720 versus being in a whole base and none. 323 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,880 I know that when I was in, General Peterson was a gentleman that I worked for. 324 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,600 He was the first black general in Marine Corps, first one. 325 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,680 With General Peterson, I met up with him at Quantico and every person who was attached 326 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,400 to Quantico as a general knows that they're the base commander. 327 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,400 That was their twilight tour. 328 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,520 And as great as he was, he knew that he was never getting promoted beyond that and his 329 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,640 chances of ever becoming the commandant of the Marine Corps were ditched. 330 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:36,560 246 years, the Marine Corps never had a black person as a commandant of the Marine Corps 331 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,240 at all or the assistant commandant. 332 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,400 This is 2024 now. 333 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,120 That's just unrealistic to think about. 334 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,240 But even now, you only have one person that could ever be there. 335 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,760 That was the gentleman who was a Marine that was promoted two years ago. 336 00:24:52,760 --> 00:25:03,760 The military academies must factor in because their obligation is to ensure that the military 337 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,680 looks like society and that the military must function in a way that a student coming 338 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,200 out of Harvard doesn't have to deal with, a student coming out of Michigan doesn't have 339 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,200 to deal with. 340 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:20,880 If I go inside of a Wal-Mart or Walgreens and every pharmacist is Caucasian or Indian or 341 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,520 whatever, it's not going to affect me when we're in next because they're giving me medicine. 342 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,520 I'm going home. 343 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,800 I'm leaving out. 344 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,360 But in the military, I'm having to have a sense of comfort about the person dealing 345 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,080 with my life and my hands. 346 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,240 And you don't want to have people in places where they don't see that they can ascribe 347 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,640 to be that level. 348 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,080 The military academies assignment is different. 349 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,440 Their mission is different. 350 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,120 The focus is different. 351 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,040 And therefore, you must at least know who you're getting coming in. 352 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,400 I know that it's not the main issue. 353 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,240 I know that it's not the overall arching issue. 354 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,720 But it must be considered because the military is not the civilian society. 355 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,720 No, it has an obligation to protect the entire country. 356 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,200 That's right. 357 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,200 That's absolute. 358 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,600 However it's made up. 359 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,960 And one of the things the National Association of Black Military Women is doing is supporting 360 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:29,280 some federal lawsuits that are calling for clarity on this issue of affirmative action 361 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,760 at the service academies. 362 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,280 It'll be interesting to see how this plays out because it has big social political issues 363 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080 related to it. 364 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:46,080 And it kind of goes back to this whole issue of having the right representation and qualified 365 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:53,200 young black men and women wanting to participate in military service, in public service, like 366 00:26:53,200 --> 00:27:00,440 you've done, Gunny, in the Marine Corps, in law enforcement as an educator. 367 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:06,640 We've been talking to Twyla Rochelle Cawthon 12 years in the Marine Corps. 368 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,040 And we're talking to her as a representative of the National Association of Black Military 369 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,040 Women. 370 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,240 We really appreciate the time you've given us today. 371 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,520 And I think there's a lot of wisdom in what you've told us. 372 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:26,080 How you're able, through the organizations, to spread that around to the community and 373 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:32,520 maybe encourage some other kids out there, if you will, to at least take a hard look 374 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,280 at military service and look what might be in it for them, right? 375 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,280 Absolutely. 376 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:44,200 Because if you are looking for a place where you can get to learn a great skill that you 377 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,760 can use outside of the military, here you are. 378 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,360 If you're looking to try to advance yourself education-wise, you can do what the school 379 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,680 I was in, in the Marine Corps, what the school I was at, what the school was, I mean, and 380 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,680 what the programs that they have, I remember one class I paid 86 cents for because I was 381 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,480 an E85 and it was called the Patricia Assistance Program. 382 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:14,280 But yeah, it's if you're looking to get out of, even out of your impoverished home, or 383 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:20,080 and that wasn't my case, or you just want to just go and see something different, or 384 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,160 like I remember out when I was at Kappa June, there were car carrying members of the KKK 385 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,880 in my barracks. 386 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,520 And they used to have rallies down in off of Marine Boulevard. 387 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,920 And this was in 1980 at Kappa June. 388 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,320 One month there was a rally and it was a last minute call. 389 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,240 They were rounding up all the Marines. 390 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,760 We were told, hey, you got to get off off out town, and you know, Liberty was secured. 391 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:52,080 The person who made the bus driver open up, because I was a boot, I mean, I was young, 392 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,320 I didn't know what was going on, you know, what was going on with people looking. 393 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,760 This guy ran to the front of the bus. 394 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,760 It was a car coming on a trailer at bus, and he swung that thing open that opens the door, 395 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:13,080 and he reached out to grab my hand, and I'm running and I grab him, and I find out afterwards, 396 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,000 because he lived in my barracks, and that was why he reached out for me. 397 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,640 He was a member of the KKK, car carrying member. 398 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,560 We talked at lunch one day over at the chow hall, and he told me, you know, that he wasn't, 399 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,880 I said, I don't even know, I was thinking of him for just helping me out. 400 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,640 He said, well, I couldn't see you out there getting hurt. 401 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:43,120 So he looked beyond his own personal views, and I found out later on, the reason why he 402 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,640 had belonged to it, because his house is the culture of his family, and he had never known 403 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,560 anyone that was black, but he, by the time his listening was up, had renounced all of 404 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,960 that because he said, I see we're all together, and we're the same. 405 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:04,240 And that's what the military also does, because you get in the military, and I'll care what 406 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,720 branch, everybody is, we're all one, we're in this together, we're going to sink or swim 407 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:15,320 together, and some people need that so that they can be mature when they lead the service 408 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,720 and be productive citizens who have high levels of patriotism. 409 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,120 Yeah, as you say, it gets you outside of the culture, maybe a bad culture that you grew 410 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,200 up in, if you got overseas duty, you got to see the rest of the world and realize, as 411 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:37,560 you said earlier, part of patriotism is realizing that this is the country you want to live 412 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,560 in. 413 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,320 It's a lot worse in a lot of other places in the world. 414 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,920 And you kind of have to, you know, you see that when you do the military overseas assignments 415 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,800 and go, oh man, home don't look so bad now. 416 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,440 Right, too, even when your states are some of the places that you are stationed in, and 417 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,240 stateside, when you leave that city, if you're in one city where the base is located, you 418 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,520 drive 15 miles outside of that city. 419 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,520 I remember in 1980, there were places outside of Jacksonville, North Carolina that still 420 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,520 had outhouses. 421 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,280 I'm stunned, I said, outhouses, not too far from the base. 422 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:14,280 Yeah. 423 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,640 Well, Twyla, we really appreciate you taking a little time with us today on Veterans Radio 424 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:24,480 to talk about some of your experiences and views and the role that the National Association 425 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,240 of Black Military Women are playing in the larger discussions going on about military 426 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,240 service. 427 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,240 Thank you for this opportunity. 428 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,960 I really appreciate it. 429 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,960 It was my honor. 430 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,960 Thank you. 431 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,320 And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. 432 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,960 I am Jim Fossone. 433 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,160 It's been a pleasure to be your host. 434 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,920 I'm a Veterans Disability Lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans, and you can reach us at 435 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:55,480 800-6934800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web. 436 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,400 You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio 437 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,000 shows by visiting us at veteransradio.org. 438 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,720 That's veteransradio.org. 439 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,000 And until next time, you are dismissed. 440 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,400 If you have a VA claim denied by the Board of Veterans Appeals, contact Legal Help for 441 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,640 Veterans at 1-800-6934800. 442 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,640 They're experts in handling cases before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. 443 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,600 Their number again, 1-800-6934800. 444 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:33,200 We again want to thank our national sponsors, the National Veterans Business Development 445 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:42,120 Council, NVBDC.org, VA Ann Arbor Health Care System, the Vietnam Veterans of America, 446 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:51,160 Charles S. Kettles Chapter, Ann Arbor, Michigan, VFW Graf O'Hara Post 423 in Ann Arbor, and 447 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:57,080 the American Legion Press Corn Post 46 also in Ann Arbor. 448 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,560 We appreciate all your support. 449 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:05,600 You can go to veteransradio.net, click on the sponsor level, and continue to support 450 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,600 keeping Veterans Radio on the air. 451 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,040 And until next time, you are dismissed. 452 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,600 With Lucky Land Sluts, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 453 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,240 This is your captain speaking. 454 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,560 We've got clear runway and the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here a while 455 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,560 and get lucky. 456 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,560 No, no, nothing like that. 457 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,480 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. 458 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,720 So I suggest you sit back, keep your tray table upright, and start getting lucky. 459 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,840 Play for free at LuckyLandSluts.com. 460 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,440 Are you feeling lucky? 461 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,640 No purchase necessary. 462 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,040 Avoid where prohibited by law. 463 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,240 18 plus terms and conditions apply. 464 00:33:41,240 --> 00:34:08,200 See the website for details.