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We want to welcome to VeteransRadio today, Eden Stratton, who wrote an interesting piece
that caught my attention that I wanted to bring to our listeners.
Eden, welcome to VeteransRadio.
Thank you so much for having me.
Now, background-wise, the article was in The Warhorse.
We want to give them credit for it.
It was titled, Sergeant's Major Built, A Culture of Comradery as Soldiers and as Black Women.
That's the article that was back in October of 2023.
At that point, Eden was in a fellowship with the American Society of Magazine Editors at The Warhorse,
as I understand it, and is currently completing her degree at Syracuse University.
Did I get that more or less right?
Yes, you did. Thank you, Jim.
Well, we're glad to have you on.
You wrote this article with Ann Marshall Chalmers.
Tell us a little bit about how this idea came to you guys, and you sort of said,
hey, let's develop this. Give us the genesis of this.
Yeah. I mean, I personally have always been very interested in covering issues relating to race and to gender,
and in conversations with my editor, Kelly Kennedy.
She actually kind of put us onto the idea.
She had some very interesting statistics concerning how Black women of color are actually overrepresented in these certain positions.
So she sent over some statistics that were incredibly interesting, and myself and Ann.
We just kind of started delving into the data, which I think was a very unique starting point for the story.
Why don't you tell us about Ann as well so we give your co-author some credit. Give us her background.
Yeah, so Ann actually came onto the war horse at pretty much the same time as I did.
She's currently working as one of their investigative journalists,
and she herself has published some pieces about women's issues within the military,
and she's such a prolific journalist and incredibly talented,
and I was really privileged to get to learn from her and to get to work with her on this story.
Well, we're glad when we reached out to both of you that you were available today to do this,
and it's somewhat easy to just take the negative view on things and say,
well, you know, women have these problems in the military.
What was somewhat, and certainly all those exist in this article, but what was refreshing was sort of this breakthrough news,
at least to me, about the success of black women in the Army making it up to the ranks of EIV-9,
Sergeant's Major, but talk to us about kind of how the story evolved for you with the statistics and moving on from there.
Absolutely. So, I mean, the first step to any story, especially when you're working with data that's maybe kind of vague,
or there's not a lot of context to it, was to talk to black women themselves who were either retired Sergeant Majors or were currently Sergeant Majors.
And what Anna and I found was that part of the reason that this happens is because there is this culture of camaraderie among women and specifically mentorship.
So, for example, I talked to Sergeant Melissa Jones, who's been in the Army for 26 years,
deployed to Kuwait in 2010, where she served as a medic. And for her, she felt that, you know, in these leadership positions,
she had to uplift members of her community in order to continue, you know, moving through the ranks and giving younger soldiers the tools and skill sets they needed
to navigate throughout the culture of the military and also to find those leadership positions themselves.
So I think when we look at this data, that is really the context for how so many black women are able to rise through the ranks at such a sound level.
Well, and really the stories that you tell, and that's why this is an intriguing piece for those personal stories,
these women are joining the military to give back to the country to serve a bigger purpose than themselves, the financial issues involved.
You know, the travel the world, see the world sort of thing, get some college money, all the reasons everybody kind of joins the military.
But it is astounding that from the data that's in here, and I guess we've referenced it, but we haven't said it specifically,
and this is October 2022 information, nearly half of the sergeant majors in the Army, which is that highest illicit rank nearly half of them are black women, the data showed and that's really surprising to me.
Yeah, I think those statistics in particular are incredibly interesting. And I mean, especially considering that only 36% of black women make up total amount of enlisted women in the Army.
So I think that goes to show that due to this, you know, consistent culture of mentorship among black women in the military, at least concerned these very specific positions.
You know, it does make an impact.
As you talk to different women who had either retired or were still in these sergeant major roles, were the stories you heard about their progression similar?
I mean, I would say so. Obviously, there were, you know, some key differences, but by and large, they always referenced that there was somebody above them, a commanding officer or a sergeant major themselves, who really allowed them to thrive and really,
you know, kind of fostered a mentorship role with them. And I think it was for those reasons that, you know, if you're coming in as, you know, a young soldier, those mentorship relationships are so incredibly important to, you know, personal and professional development,
and really was what allowed them to rise through the ranks to the positions that they eventually held.
I really think that was one of the keys that I got out of the article. And this is true whether you're in the military or not, but the role of mentorship, the importance of mentorship.
Did that ring throughout your discussions with the various women?
Absolutely. And in addition to that, you know, once the women that we do kind of were recalling their experiences being in those leadership roles, they themselves kind of cited the fact that they, you know, had a mentor and wanted to give back to younger recruits in the same way that their
own relationships had been fostered.
So, helped through their early years being in the military. So I think it really ended up being a deal where, you know, we've finally gotten this leadership role in trying to give back and to, you know, help, you know, somebody that was in our shoes.
It seemed to me too that one of the other mentorship had a lot of different components to it. And one of them was the networking. Again, whether you're in the military or out of the military, the importance of networking kind of rippled through this and helped elevate these women to the roles that they rightfully had as
Sergeant Majors. But talk about how they felt that whole networking concept was so important.
I mean, yeah, networking in addition to, you know, the mentorship role was how a lot of these women were able to attain leadership positions in the first place, even if it was something as small as, you know, their Sergeant Major, you know, putting in a good word for them, you know, when
positions were being filled and even outside of the military.
For example, I know Sergeant Melissa Jones and, you know, you can refer back to the article for this.
Her networking with, you know, the soldier allowed, you know, the woman to, you know, rise up out of homelessness to take care of her daughter and to eventually run for office.
So I think that sort of networking in particular, it kind of transcends the military and assists women, whether they're inside of it or if they've recently left.
Yeah, these are pearls of wisdom that you've sprinkled throughout the article here that, as you say, apply whether you're in or out of the military.
And another one of them, it seemed to me, was how you deal with adverse situations. In this instance, a lot of them were race-based.
But talk a little bit about that aspect of the importance of having somebody to have discussions with about those interpersonal problems that arise in every relationship.
Absolutely. I also think it's important to recognize that I think a lot of these adverse reactions, they were compounded not only because there is a race factor that these women were black, but also because they were women themselves.
So I think that kind of compounded in a way if there are either racists or sexist situations that are happening, either between officers or soldiers.
And in talking with these women, a lot of times their superior officer or their sergeant major would really teach these women how to respond to those situations without either getting into trouble.
Obviously, unrightly so. But to use those situations as a learning experience and to learn how to fight against them through different means.
So for example, one particular woman that we talked to, she referenced a time where she was actually getting promoted to first sergeant and she walked into the office.
And her sergeant major kind of looked her up and down and seemed kind of confused that she was being promoted to that position.
And when she said that she was, he kind of said, well, listen, look, if you're not cut out for this position, I have this other guy that I can promote instead.
And she kept her cool and she said, no, I've got it. And she was subsequently promoted and did amazing work in that leadership position and kind of proved to her commanding officers that she was meant for that position and kind of changed their attitudes at the same time,
paving the way forward for younger soldiers just like her.
Absolutely. You have to know how to deal with adversity and it seemed like in the store as you told that these black female sergeant majors over time had developed this camaraderie and part of it was to help others in similar situations understand how to deal with adversity.
In terms of the women, women are only about 17% of the total armed forces. So right off the bat, a female going into the military is in that minority group and a greater minority when they're of color.
So they were interesting statistics that you've got because it breaks it down not only for black women, but Hispanic women and others in the article that had reached the level of E9.
As you talk to these women, what was your sense of, you know, I often ask the question of somebody who's retired, would you do it again? What was your sense of them as you went through this discussion with them? Would they do it again?
You know, obviously, like I can't speak for them, obviously, because they're not here, but the sense that I got was that, you know, the women that we talked to had careers spanning over 20, 30 years.
And I think that is a testament to how seriously they took their own jobs and how much of an impact that had for them getting to mentor other soldiers and to have that experience. So would they do it again? I would like to say so.
So it sounds like these women would be doing it again if, because they were, they had achieved such leadership position as a student at Syracuse University in this fellowship and writing this article.
What did you get out of it that maybe going in you had a different perception of?
Absolutely. I mean, as a student, you know, every story is a learning experience. And it's also a privilege at the same time. You know, I do not come from a military background, and I'm also, you know, a white student at a private institution.
So getting the opportunity to speak to these women about their experiences and also have the responsibility of telling them the way that, you know, is genuine and also as powerful was an incredible experience.
And I learned so much about, you know, race in the military, also from an intersectional lens, you know, the fact that these people are not only black, they're also women and how that changes their interactions in the military.
But yeah, it was an incredible privilege to speak to them to hear their stories, and also to tell them. And I think for a public war horse, that it was an incredible experience and one that I would absolutely do all over again if I could.
Did it, because you didn't come from a military family, as you said, did it change your view about military service?
I think it did. I didn't really have many opinions about the military before I started working for the war horse. I was definitely, you know, interested in covering military affairs.
But I think in speaking with those women, I found that it's an incredible opportunity to have leadership positions within the military. And it really allows you to, I guess, build a legacy and to, you know, assist people, you know, who are part of marginalized communities,
which was a perspective that I didn't have before taking on the story.
One of the items that's not discussed in the story, and it's one of these factors that I think often overlooked, is that there's no real discussion about the existence of the equality of paying benefits in the military.
There is discussion about the opportunity for promotion and some disparity that certainly can exist there if you don't know the right people, or even if the job's open.
But as you research this, did the whole concept of equality and paying benefits fall out, or just not really even involved?
Honestly, I can't really speak on that, Jim. At least on my end, it didn't really come up much. It was more of the, you know, networking and interpersonal issues that came up more than anything.
Yeah, because folks go into the military for a lot of different reasons. One of them is certainly financial, maybe, you know, a steady paycheck, roof over my head, food for the family, college benefits, what have you.
But one of the great things about the military is that, hey, if you're an E9, all E9s get paid the same. You know, if you're not being discriminated against because you're an E6 and you didn't know the right person.
So everybody's got equality of paying benefits. You've got to fight for the opportunities.
But since it wasn't talked about in the articles, just wondering whether it was even a part of the discussion, it sounds like it didn't need to be and really wasn't for you or Anne as you went through this.
As you've completed this assignment and this fellowship, how does it change your view about, would you write more on military stories? Would you work for a publication or an entity that focused on military news?
Honestly, Jim, yes, I absolutely would. Obviously, you know, I said before, I don't really have much of a military background, but in working for the war horse, I came to realize that for people who are in the military on a day to day basis, their stories rarely get told, you know, on an individual level or even on a broad basis.
So I think there's a lot of opportunity for people to have their stories heard by working in military journalism. And I also think it's, you know, an important service, you know, to the rest of the country to allow readers and viewers to hear stories like these women in the military and to gain their own insight from theirs.
So, well, we're talking to Eden Straden, who is currently finishing up her degree work at Syracuse University and did a fellowship through the American Society of Magazine Editors at War Horse.
And I might just take the clip you gave us, the soundbites you gave us, Eden, and use that as our tagline. There are so many stories that aren't rarely told in the military, and since there are fewer and fewer people who come from military families, but the important and national security is so great that we have a strong and active military,
I think you hit the nail on the head is we have to tell these stories and that's why we do Veterans Radio. So I'm thrilled to hear that, yeah, this is something you could see doing some more work in.
Absolutely. It's a great opportunity and there's so much to cover.
Well, we appreciate the time that you've spent with us today on Veterans Radio. We really appreciate you highlighting this issue and War Horse highlighting this issue that black women have a large role in the Army's Sergeant Major Corps and telling these individual stories, which as you say, don't get told enough.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
And I want to thank everybody for listening to Veterans Radio today. I am Jim Fawcone. It's been a pleasure to be your host. I'm a Veterans Disability lawyer at Legal Help for Veterans, and you can reach us at 800-693-4800 or legalhelpforveterans.com on the web.
You can follow Veterans Radio on Facebook and listen to its podcasts and internet radio shows by visiting us at veteransradio.org. That's veteransradio.org.
And until next time, you are dismissed.
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Until next time, you are dismissed.
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