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Let's begin!
We are in the U.S. and the local radio station of Radio Fórmula.
Here in Jalisco.
It's 89.5 FM.
A round of applause for Radio Fórmula Jalisco.
It makes it possible for us to be here.
For the U.G.
I'm Marco Antonio Regil.
And I want to tell you that today we are going to dedicate the program
to a very, very, very important health issue.
Which is this phenomenon of sudden heart attacks.
Of sudden death.
When 100 Mexicans said,
you will remember that at the end of the program we had a game
that was called sudden death.
But this is not a game.
This is a matter of life or death.
I don't know if you remember,
on March 26th, 2018,
the Croatian football player,
Bruno Boban collapsed.
It's a video, well, it's on YouTube, very graphic by the way.
He collapsed in the middle of the field.
I don't know if you remember,
they gave him a ball in the chest and he fell.
And well, until now it seems,
you know, in football,
like the referee and everything,
he says, like he gets up and everything,
but then you realize that he is serious and he died.
A ball in the chest, that's a footballer,
a young person, a healthy person.
So this happened to the footballer,
it happens to not only dozens of athletes,
it happens to many people in the world.
In fact, the Mexican Society of Cardiology in Mexico
estimates that every year there are,
look, between 150,000 and 250,000 cases of sudden heart attacks.
So you don't even expect it.
And it doesn't mean that you don't have to be sick.
Anyone can give us and at any age.
Almost 95% of them die in a matter of minutes
if they don't apply heart-to-heart resuscitation
and the use of a wonderful electronic device
which we are going to talk about today in the program.
The issue is that lives can be saved.
This issue can happen to you, to me, to an uncle, to the grandmother,
to a child, it can happen to anyone.
And today's program, we are going to give you information
that can literally help us save lives.
And that's why we have invited,
the idea of coming to Guadalajara is because it was happening
at the International Cardiology Congress here in Guadalajara
which has been going on for 16 years.
They invited me to give a conference and said,
hey, let's do a program from Guadalajara.
Today we are accompanied by Dr. Efraín Gagiola,
who is a clinical interventionist cardiologist,
member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology,
who has saved thousands and thousands of people
and is going to talk to us about how to prevent
and how to treat the issue of a sudden heart attack.
I mean, she is going to give us information that saves lives.
And she is also going to accompany us, the surgeon with a master's degree in nutrition,
Gabriela Tortosa, who is also an expert,
not only in how food can help us save lives,
to prevent, but she is also an expert in personalized precision medicine
and in a genetic test that can help us discover
if we have a natural prevention of this.
It is a wonder what science can do with us.
So, today we are going to learn and grow a lot here from the UDG.
And the question we are going to ask today,
if you go to marcoantoniorregil.com, diagonal formula,
the question we are going to ask so that you can participate and tell us,
is this, in the confessional, do you know someone who has suffered a sudden heart attack?
Yes, no, or the third option is what is that?
I don't even know what a sudden heart attack is.
marcoantoniorregil.com, diagonal formula,
we are going to open the conversation so that you can tell us
if you have heard about this and we are going to learn a lot, literally.
Stay with us because it is information that can save our lives.
From the UDG, University of Guadalajara,
we continue live, here we are.
I am Marco Antonio Regil in formula.
We return.
Connect and build through our conversation.
Through our conversation.
We return with Marco Antonio Regil in formula.
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Today, dear body,
our body is a temple.
You have to take care of it with love and respect.
Listen to it.
He will always know what you need.
Let's learn together techniques to protect it.
Reach your maximum potential.
Marco Antonio Regil in formula.
We are live from the beautiful Guadalajara,
Guadalajara in the UDG,
with students.
They are here, live with us.
Today we are talking about our dear body,
our dear love, love.
What a beautiful way to show love,
to take care of our health
and to prevent the topic of today,
which is sudden death.
Today we are joined by Dr. Efraín Gagiola,
who is a clinical and interventionist cardiologist,
who is a member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology
and who has saved the lives of thousands and thousands of people
who will come to explain to us,
with apples and in a simple way, doctor,
what is this sudden death.
Welcome and thank you for having us here in Guadalajara.
On the contrary, Marco,
it is really a pleasure to be here with all of you.
Let's start.
What is this, doctor?
Let's start.
First I will make a comment about the beginning of the program
when you mentioned a football player
who receives a ball in the chest.
Yes.
Let's start there and then we will go to the definition.
There is a term called the touch of death.
The touch of death, ok.
And it is also called DIMMAC.
It is a blow that is given in the chest,
it can be even with the fist,
with the UFC fighters,
or a great ball, or a trauma.
And that blow is given in a moment of heart beat
that can cause cardiac arrest.
Ok.
And this has happened in football players,
in fighters, boxers, DIMMAC or touch of death.
Well, that is sudden death.
What is sudden death or sudden death?
This is an unexpected death, obviously,
when it is sudden or sudden.
And it is the cause in 150,000, 200,000 people per year
here in Mexico
who die within the first hour of the beginning of symptoms,
it is called sudden death,
the symptoms begin, they die,
or suddenly they walk or are running in the football field
and they explode.
That is sudden death.
And the question is, can anyone die?
At any age, suddenly our heart stops,
and why does that happen?
Well, here we are going to divide this point
into two periods of age.
We are going to talk first about the 35, 40 years
that sudden death is caused by heart attacks,
as it is usually known,
after the 35, 40 years.
When it occurs in 35 years or less,
or there are incidents in the sudden death family,
in young people, we have to investigate other causes,
such as genetic causes or inherited ones.
But these are the two groups.
Above the 35 years,
it is obligatory to do a certain kind of study,
go with the cardiologist, an electrocardiogram, an evaluation.
So these would be the two big groups.
So these are the big groups,
but it can happen to anyone.
Does it happen more to women than to men,
or is it the same thing?
It really happens twice as much to men as to women.
Why doesn't it happen more to men?
Well...
Why? Why, doctor?
This really has a lot to do with age.
For example, above 45, 50 years,
when menopause arrives and the female normal production drops,
the frequency of cardiac problems or sudden death is equalized.
For women younger than 40, it happens less to them than to men.
That's right.
Maybe it reaches 40.
In some way...
The statistics are even.
In some way, female hormones have that protective effect.
That's why some gynecologists recommend that when menopause arrives,
they give a period of treatment to prevent this from happening.
But in summary, after 40, 45 years,
or the period when menopause arrives,
that's when it's equalized.
We're even.
But then, the group with the highest risk,
and even if you're listening or watching and saying,
hey, I'm not from that risk group,
we all have people we want from that risk group,
and the goal of this program is to understand it,
and to find solutions for us and our loved ones.
The group with the highest risk are men, young men.
Up to 35, 40 years.
Up.
The older, the more risk.
The higher risk.
So what happened to this footballer, who was under 35,
was more because of the blow to the chest,
the blow to the death you mentioned.
Yes.
That's a cause.
But anyway, if this happened,
it's mandatory to study it,
to have a genetic study,
to be able to identify if there's a risk of future
sudden deaths,
we call it an abortion.
Yes, here I have very important information.
It says, based on the INEGI figures,
only from January to August 2020,
which is the most recent figure we found,
in Mexico there were more than 140,000 deaths.
And although there are no exact figures,
it's estimated that between 20 and 30% of those deaths
have been sudden deaths.
So it's a fairly common issue.
And also, the data says, it was added,
that if a person collapses,
and here's the super interesting point, doctor,
if a person collapses and someone doesn't assist them quickly,
they'll have a survival percentage of only 5%.
It gives you a sudden death.
And if they don't assist you,
which is today's program,
how to prevent it, obviously,
but how to assist, only 5% can live.
95% goes away.
On the contrary, studies say,
an appropriate intervention is made,
following the steps that mark the protocol
called survival chain,
which the doctor will explain to us now,
which is this,
when performing a early cardiopormonal animation,
the survival percentage is up to 72%.
So, if we're prepared and educated,
we can save a loved one's life.
First, we're not really prepared or educated.
Second, we can save a person's life
if we have the knowledge and information.
And I think this program will help us a lot
to define this group of people.
What is this protocol of survival chain?
What is it that helps save lives?
Well, let me explain.
When someone has sudden death,
this can be at home,
it can be in a public place,
for every minute that passes
and that doesn't receive attention,
the survival percentage is reduced by 10%.
For every minute?
For every minute.
So that if in 5 or 10 minutes
they don't receive any attention, they're going to die.
5 or 10 minutes.
Hey, they should teach this at school.
It should be a basic training,
from primary school or secondary school.
You know it.
Totally agree.
So, doctor?
There are some countries,
Germany for example,
where children in primary school
are taught to perform cardiopormonal animation.
But it's a knowledge that we all need.
Obviously,
greater interest should exist
in those people who have family members
with cardiac problems
or who have family members who have had
a sudden death episode,
who are forced to know what to do.
But the first 5 minutes,
we're talking about 10,
the first 5 minutes are essential
to prevent brain damage
and to prevent total and irrecoverable death.
Okay.
I want us to understand as best we can
what we need to do.
What can I do?
We'll talk about that in the next segment.
We have the conversation open, friends,
so you can listen to us and watch us on Telefórmula,
on YouTube, on all the platforms of Grupo Fórmula,
on the confessionaries,
ivanamarcontoniorregil.com, diagonalfórmula.
You can vote to know the reality,
at least for those of you who are listening.
Today's question is,
to someone who has suffered a sudden heart attack,
you've lived it up close,
47% of people say yes,
41% say no,
and 12% of people who haven't even heard
about this topic.
So it's very important to educate us.
So in the next segment,
we're going to talk about
an incredible electronic device,
a wonderful device that can save your life.
The doctor brought us one here,
he's going to show it to us,
he's going to teach us,
he's going to tell us how much it costs,
he's going to tell us who should have it,
how difficult or easy it is to learn to use it,
what do I do if I don't have enough money to buy it?
Anyway, that's something very, very important.
We're here from the UDG in Guadalajara, Jalisco.
We'll be back live.
Guadalajara, Guadalajara.
The topic of today is sudden death.
How to prevent it? We'll be back.
Go for it.
Follow the conversation with
Marco Antonio Regil in Formula.
We're going to talk about protected territory.
We're live from the University of Guadalajara
here with the students of the UDG,
the UDG Cultural Center,
and Santander University of Arts and Scenic Arts.
The topic of today is how to protect ourselves
and avoid sudden death.
Anyone can give us a call,
the conversation has just started.
This is Dr. Efrain Gajiola,
cardiologist, member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology.
He's an interventionist.
We're here in Guadalajara because we're in the framework
of a wonderful congress that's taking place
in 2016.
It's an international cardiology congress.
Yesterday I found myself on the plane.
People from Venezuela, Colombia, the United States,
Spain, Italy...
I'll be with you in the afternoon giving a conference
not about cardiology because obviously
all the doctors would leave.
But it's related to the heart.
How can you follow your heart?
But we were talking about sudden death.
Anyone can give us a call.
What do you do if someone gives you sudden death?
Every minute counts, as the doctor said.
Every minute you pass without attention,
what percentage does it decrease the chance of survival?
10 minutes, sorry, 10% for every minute
that your heart stops.
So the first thing that comes to mind is
heart rate resuscitation, which is what you see
on TV and in TV shows, and the Mexican Red Cross
gives courses where you have to suppress...
That's easy to learn.
We should learn that.
Yes, the answer is yes.
Here we just have to divide the population into two groups.
Those who have had some training
in heart rate resuscitation
and those who really don't know anything.
Most of us don't know.
Except for the patient or the person who falls dead.
And what you said is very important.
We think that nobody will be affected by family or one,
but I think it's a knowledge that must be generalized.
And as you mentioned, it's something that even
in primary school, a child in primary or secondary school
can save a life and there are many cases of it.
So the first point is to forget that it won't happen to us.
In case it happens, if someone is alone,
the first thing to do is call an ambulance
and then do something called heart rate resuscitation.
We are not experts in detecting whether someone is dead or not.
If someone falls, they don't move, we assume they are dead.
We have to do compressions in the chest from 100 to 120 times per minute.
Do we have to count them?
By crushing the central part, where the sternum is,
with the arms extended and the palm of the hand.
From 100 to 120, that is, every second I have to give two.
Yes, 100 every minute, 100 to 120.
And you have to compress the chest approximately 5 centimeters.
Why? Because we assume that the heart is stopped.
If the heart is stopped, the brain is not pumping blood.
And I go from the left side of the chest.
To the left side.
You have to know where the heart is.
To the left.
And something that is very important is this.
Keep in mind that the heart is stopped, there is no blood flowing.
The blood has become stagnant.
So when you compress, you crush the heart so that the organ pumps a little blood.
Two hands.
Straight.
And using the weight of your body, right?
The weight of your body, straight.
And using your shoulders and letting the weight fall.
Like in Colombia, that is, putting the elbows extended.
Extended so that it is not the muscle, but the bone that is there, direct, and apply all the force.
And obviously your force will be applied through your body, your toes.
In Colombia, using the center of your body.
That's right.
And 5 centimeters more or less we have to crush so that you pump a little blood.
The most sensitive organ of the human body of damage is the brain.
In such a way that if in the first five minutes we do not give a little blood to the brain, you are left with permanent sequels.
Of course, one thing is that you die, another thing is that you are left with a disability.
You can save yourself and you can remain with neurological disability.
So where can I take a course?
I say, I already wanted to go take it because I am simple and imagine being able to save a loved one's life.
What happens to you?
It happened to me that my dog died.
He just gave him a stop and there he was.
He died and it was very traumatic, apart from in a park with people around and everything.
I imagine how traumatic it must be that it happens to you with a loved one, with someone from your family.
Well, my dog was my family, obviously.
So where do we get these courses?
In the Mexican Red Cross or where can we go take a course?
There are different centers, it can be other universities, hospitals.
There are places where you can research to receive it in a way that is close to home.
Excuse me for insisting, but where do I call?
I call a hospital, I call the Red Cross and I say, hey, I want a course from RCP.
You took it, didn't you Claudia, our producer?
You took that course where? The Mexican Red Cross?
What did you call the Red Cross?
They offered us the course and they did.
But what do I do? Should I call the Red Cross or who should I call?
That's an option, but there are also many hospitals that provide the service.
So I call and ask.
Training, that's right.
Private hospitals, public hospitals.
That's right.
The other point that interrupts is the second group, in which there are people who are trained.
The strategy changes.
If there are two people, when the stop occurs, you call 911, call ambulances, while I am going to give a massage.
I am going to call another person to give a massage.
And then look for a device to apply electroshocks.
We are going to talk about that.
What is this called?
There is a magical electronic device, miraculously scientifically saved lives, what is it called?
Automatic external defibrillator, which as you can see is a box, as if it were a toaster.
It is a toaster for those who are listening on the radio.
It is a toaster here, well a toaster, it is like a device like a yellow and black toaster.
And look, here we are transmitting from the UDG and precisely according to the University of Guadalajara,
the automatic defibrillators allow to save a person from sudden death.
And this type of device can save, according to the UDG, up to 90% of people who suffer sudden death from cardiovascular diseases.
Doctor, that is a miracle.
It is fantastic.
It is important to mention that if an adult has sudden death, 80 or 90% of cases are caused by arrhythmia in the heart,
which is called fibrillation.
If the heart pumps blood, 60 to 80 liters per minute, fibrillation is like an atrium,
it is equivalent to cardiac arrest.
Ok.
So that is why you have to attend to it while giving the maneuvers.
And this device called external automatic defibrillator is really very easy to use.
It is a device in which...
Look, for those who see us on Telefórmula, you can see it here.
I mean, you open it and the device itself is giving you instructions.
Yes, and a drawing appears where there are two patches, you put one on one side, another one on the other side, here it is signaled.
It tells you where.
To open the bag.
Those who are listening to the radio and want to see this, go to YouTube where we will have the program available.
Look, it has Spanish accent.
Of an electrode.
Ok.
Place the electrode in the naked skin as shown in the figure.
Wow, wonderful.
The electrode is firmly attached.
It gives you...
Unplug the blue plastic of the other electrode.
It takes you by the hand.
Yes.
As shown in the figure.
And it tells you, because imagine, you get nervous at the moment, imagine if someone is dying and you, how do I do it?
Well, the machine...
You open, you see a drawing, one patch here, another patch here, and it tells you to press the button and you press the button.
And what does the device do?
If the patient has a heart rate, it tells you not to press anything, stay calm.
Aha.
The heart is stopped, press the button.
Aha.
And it tells you when to stop, when to give another discharge.
It is an electric discharge, as you see in the TV series, in the movies, that when someone arrives in an emergency, they discharge it.
This fits in your briefcase, you can have it at home.
And that can keep the person alive until the ambulance arrives?
Of course.
Of every 100 patients who have a heart attack and who die suddenly, 80 or 90 are because of that rhythm called defibrillation,
flushing, not pumping blood.
And this has a success rate of 80 or 90%.
You remove the arrhythmia and then the ambulance arrives to take you to the hospital to receive medical attention.
Wonderful. Let's take a break and we will continue to talk to finish understanding this defibrillator well.
Automatic.
External.
That.
That beautiful, beautiful and miraculous device.
I'm going to ask the doctor, who should have it, why should it have it, how much does it cost, what does the government say, the health department,
about who should have it, where is it obtained, if they don't have it, what can I do to have one?
And a doctor comes to us, Dr. Gabriela Tortosa, who is a surgeon and will talk to us about a genetic test to see if this sudden heart attack can give us.
We are back from Guadalajara.
Oh, he builds through our conversation, through our conversation, through us. We return with Marco Antonio Regil in Formula.
I am Joaquín López Doriga and I invite you to listen to the best interviews wherever you want.
News, sports and shows on your favorite podcast platform.
Group Fórmula, opening the conversation.
Go ahead.
Follow the conversation with Marco Antonio Regil in Formula.
We are live from Guadalajara, Guadalajara for all of Mexico and the world through Radio Fórmula, Telefórmula, Radio Fórmula.mx, YouTube, you know, Spotify, etc. etc.
Today we are joined by Dr. Efraín Gagiola, cardiologist, member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology, interventionist, expert in saving lives.
And also, Dr. Gabriela Tortosa, surgeon with a master's degree in nutrition and also an expert in personalized medicine will join the conversation.
And she will not only talk to us about food, how eating clean and healthy can help us prevent heart problems, these sudden heart attacks,
but also how there is a genetic test that can help us discover if we are prone to that.
So we have a lot to cover in this segment, but we are left pending.
First, Dr. Welcome.
Thank you, Marco.
What a wonderful device, right?
I want to buy one.
Me too.
We are talking about the defibrillator again, that's what it's called.
Yes.
It is this device that in case of a sudden heart attack, you connect it, it tells you step by step how, as I was demonstrating in the previous segment.
And it saves your life, according to the UDG, it says that 90% of people who have a sudden heart attack can be saved if they have a defibrillator in their hand.
The defibrillator is called because the arrhythmia, equivalent to cardiac arrest, is called fibrillation.
Okay.
That's where the name defibrillator comes from.
It is important to mention that in theory, in places where there are 500 people congregated, show centers, stadiums, public buildings, government buildings.
There should be one.
There should be one for every 500 people who are congregated.
But is this a law, is it a suggestion? Who regulates this? Health secretariat?
There is a Mexican official norm, health secretariat, it even has 2012, 2013, which was approved.
Unfortunately, this has not been adopted because they put it as a suggestion or an instance for commercial centers to have one or the show centers.
But in theory, cinemas, commercial centers, universities, the UDG, by the way, we give a round of applause to the UDG, here they have these devices available.
If something happens to someone, they are available here.
The places that have defibrillators, what are they called?
It is called a protected area, it is the word that is currently being used, or a protected area building.
So the UDG, for example, is a protected area.
How much does this device cost? Because obviously, doctor, we want to know how much it costs. Give me two to carry, please.
Really, the relative price, we are talking about human lives, but they can be obtained from 20,000 to 30,000 pesos.
It costs a lot of money.
20,000 to 30,000 pesos.
And where can we buy them?
The point is that...
The doctor does not buy them, he is not doing business with them.
I just thought of it, I'm going to put up a sales business, let's associate ourselves.
The point here is public centers with 500 or more people, one for each 500, but at home.
Most of the sudden deaths also occur at home.
If you have a relative, a friend who visits you frequently, who had a heart attack, or has heart problems,
you have to have it at home, in a place that is easily accessible.
Of course, now, how many people can buy a device of 20,000 to 30,000 pesos?
Well, it's quite expensive. There are no subsidies, there are no credits, there are no ways...
Well, what we could ask is that the school, the places of work, malls, cinemas, have it.
But is there any kind of help for someone who says, I want one and I don't have 30,000 pesos?
Well, there are companies that are dedicated to making a kind of loan for health.
They are private, right?
In which there is a problem, even in hospitalized patients, you call them and they go, pay the bill,
and they tell you, well, you're going to pay in monthly, X amount...
Small donations. Small donations, weekly.
Well, if you have 30,000 pesos, it's a good investment, and if you don't have them,
well, at least it's good to know and ask if in your workplace they have one,
or tell the boss, there, to the people, hey, why don't they buy us one just in case?
I mean, see where the closest distributor is.
You have exactly, as you have mentioned, it can be in high school or elementary school,
high school, high school, universities, all the places where they congregate, yes.
The companies would be great if they did.
It's practically mandatory.
The buildings, the co-workers, right?
The planes.
At the moment, you can't buy one yourself, but maybe in the building where you live,
the committee gathers and they can buy one that is in the building, right?
Or with the neighbor, you get together and you have, I don't know, there are creative ways.
The planes have them. Another thing that is very important, Marco,
is that the place where it's going to be placed has to be at a distance
where in 60 seconds you can get to grab it.
60 seconds.
I mean, 60, you can't have this in, I don't know, 10 blocks, to say something, right?
Of course not, in my idea of the lobby of the building,
where the elevator goes down and you get there, well, no.
Because remember,
It's good, canceled.
Remember that every minute that passes, 10% less of the possibility of surviving.
And the first five minutes are fundamental to prevent brain damage.
Wow. Well, we covered this.
Doctor, I want to ask you, thanks for joining us here.
Before we start the program, Marco tells me,
is there a genetic test that we can do to see if we have a predisposition to this?
I mean, are there people who have more genetic predisposition than others?
Definitely.
In the case of sudden death, as the doctor mentioned,
he mentioned it at the beginning, there is a genetic cause,
that is, there are families that have a gene
of a group of diseases called stemiocardiopathy,
which are diseases of the muscle, where the cardiac muscle can be more enlarged,
and that you don't know, that doesn't give you any symptoms,
you don't know that you have it,
and that's why the doctor said that if it's before 35 years,
and you have a relative who has had a sudden death,
then that's where you say, candidate to do the genetic study.
If you are a relative of someone who has had an episode of this.
And you have less than 35 years.
Why? Because having this gene,
as well as there are other genes that you can turn on and off according to your habits,
according to your lifestyle, this gene, no,
this gene, for example, is indicative,
that Dr. Efraín tells me if I'm wrong,
that if you have this test, for example,
there is a gene, right, that is SCN5A,
that measures the sodium channels,
and if you have, you are positive for this gene,
the indication is where is the mark-step.
A mark-step. A mark-step,
as prevention is correct, Efraín? Yes.
That the mark-step goes under the skin,
and it can give you a discharge, is it an electrical discharge that gives you?
The people who have had this sudden death incident,
young people who have the gene,
in which sudden death can be repetitive,
there is a device that measures 3, 5 centimeters,
local anesthesia,
it is placed under the clavicle, under the skin,
with local anesthesia, a little cable is connected,
and through a vein it reaches what is the interior of the heart,
and if there is a cardiac arrest, it is detected in 3 seconds or 4 seconds,
and an electrical discharge is given to you.
It is like having a defibrillator integrated into your body.
In fact, this device, which is implantable,
is obviously internal, it was born because a doctor had a friend
who frequently had arrhythmia,
and every now and then emergencies arrived to defibrillate it,
defibrillate it, and he said,
how about if we invent something that brings it,
that detects arrhythmia and that gives it the discharge,
and if in the first discharge it does not revive,
it gives it another discharge until the cardiac rhythm is restored,
then there was born the concept of this type of defibrillator.
And that, if you are a candidate, you can know that by going with your cardiologist.
Of course.
Does insurance cover that?
I don't know if in social insurance at a public level,
but private medical insurance also covers that?
Yes.
Yes, yes, it covers it.
If you have a genetic study that proves that you have that gene,
you have a relative who has already had the problem,
yes or yes, it covers the procedure.
And in social insurance, how are things at a public level?
There, yes, I would not know how to tell you.
There, you know something, I would not know how to tell you.
Yes, I know, but I don't want to get into that much.
Let's get away from it.
What we do know is that it can be implanted in all public health institutions,
in social insurance, in the ICT, yes, it can be.
It can be.
But already from her that it is available.
Yes, it is available.
Yes, no, you go to the waiting list.
Hey, let's go to the subject of food, doctor,
because you are passionate about food.
You spoke, the genetic study serves us for something.
It is in saliva.
Something very cool is that it is in saliva.
It is very easy.
The genetic study is in saliva, literally.
Ah, it is in saliva only.
Literally, you spit in a tube and it's over.
And where can you do that genetic study?
Look, right now we leave my data, this is what they are going to do with me.
We have an office here in Guadalajara.
Give me your data.
Also in Hermosillo, we have offices, but at all,
I mean, nationally, throughout the Republic, we send the kits,
we teach them how to do it, that is, how easy it is,
they can do it at home and we collect the test and then we send it to the process.
How much does the genetic study cost?
Like $700, the one on this panel, more or less.
$700, that is, it is a study.
It is done once in a lifetime, but let's see, Marco,
if your young father died, you have to take a step back.
And if I have this gene, which I already know that if I do have it, it will happen to me,
because it will happen to you.
Does the insurance cover it?
Yes.
The private medical expenses insurance, the higher one, covers it.
Well, it depends, because there are different types of insurance,
but a good medical expenses insurance, if you check with your genetic study,
that is, if it comes out positive, it will cover it.
I mean, it will not prepay you, oh, I want to do it because my father died.
But if you already did it and it comes out positive, then they can pay you back.
But not all insurance companies.
It is not cheap, but it is an investment.
Well, it is a life saving, right?
It is a life saver, right?
It can save your life.
But that is why it is precision medicine or personalized,
the more you know about yourself, the more ground you have to prevent.
It is not that you are going to do it to everyone,
because you are personalized, according to your characteristics,
you are or are not a candidate for the study.
And if I do not have anyone in my family who has had a sudden heart attack.
You do not have to invest in this, exactly.
What am I going to do?
There are many types of genetic studies, but in this one,
especially today's topic, it is precisely for those who have a history
of sudden death in their family.
Grandparents, parents, or also uncles, cousins.
If it is young, I would say that if he died young, sudden death less than 35 years,
even if it is your uncle, I would do it.
Yes, in fact, there are already studies in which they have caught 1000 to 1500 people
from different generations with sudden death at an early age.
1500 to 2000, they go to the genealogical tree
and they are deglossing them, who have died, and it is precisely for that gene.
So you have to go with the cardiologist,
the path literally begins there, your general doctor,
then the general doctor can go to the cardiologist,
and the cardiologist can already explore that.
You do the test and then if you come out positive,
then you are a defibrillator, because you do not know what it is,
now it is your lifeguard.
Of course, and that is very interesting and very important
because if we have someone in the family who has this condition,
it does not happen to them, we already know where we are going,
besides going to take our course, if we do not have the defibrillator,
to be able to do this resurrection.
Now, we have a few minutes before the program is closed for Telefórmula.
Doctor, what role does food play?
Because this surgery that the doctor was talking about,
excuse my ignorance, where they remove a vein from the leg
and replace it in the... how is that thing?
That is something totally different.
But it is because a vein is covered, right?
That is another issue, that is not a sudden heart attack.
Yes, when a artery is covered and it does not give blood to the heart muscle,
the blood carries nutrients, it carries oxygen,
you can have arrhythmia.
Of course.
First you have to save yourself.
Of course.
And then they study you, if you have many coronary arteries,
that's what it's called, because they crown the heart,
as if it were my fist, this is not coronary arteries,
if you have many, you can be a candidate for heart surgery.
Ok, what does food have to do with a sudden heart attack
or with this condition that the doctor is talking about?
Well, look, I think we all know,
we know the term that we have to eat balanced, right?
I don't want to dig too deep there because we all know that fruits, vegetables,
rather, we have to avoid, what things do we have to avoid?
Processed food, which many people say, well processed, what does that mean?
Everything that is packed in cans, in boxes, with preservatives,
has monosodium glutamate, among a thousand more preservatives
that make your body have much higher levels of sodium,
which can lead to your blood pressure being above where it should be
and hence the waterfall, right?
The waterfall of, well, hypertension leads you to greater blood pressure
and obviously it can lead to a heart attack.
I imagine that especially the ultra-processed ones.
Yes, but something that I still see more in my practice,
which is very fashionable and has always been fashionable,
is everything that causes heart attacks,
among them, for example, many supplements that there are,
that many people take, that they don't know,
that they have green tea, taurine, caffeine,
that they take it to go to the gym, imagine, right?
So you have this predisposition, you take a stimulant,
you go to the gym, you put your heart,
then you imagine two plus two, it's four, right?
So I always focus a lot on that, what are you taking,
what supplements are you taking, be careful with this,
with, there are even drinks, commercial drinks that create stimulation.
There are substances that were previously sold to go to the gym
and now they are banned, I don't remember what the name is,
but I came to take it and people died of heart attacks
and they banned it and when I saw that I said,
I don't remember what the effect was.
Senadrin, it wasn't one of those.
I think it was called fat burners.
All those fat burners have, in general, substances that alter heart rate.
And also the pills for weight loss, all the pills for weight loss
that are not approved by the FDA, that you can't buy with medical prescription,
that are, that your neighbor sold it to you, your aunt, your grandmother,
you know, that circulate in the black market,
many times they are amphetamines and with other substances.
Wow, so it's very dangerous to be taking, and I say it with all due respect,
not all, but some gym trainers, some and the sub-race,
they are out there, reciting a lot of things as if they were nutritionists or experts.
And yes, it helps you lose weight, but it can cause a cardiac arrest.
Exactly.
It's very hard.
We are going to stay for radio formula, we still have another half hour,
but we are going to say goodbye to the people who are watching us on Telefórmula.
They are going to stay with Maxine Goodside in the next segment,
but where can they locate you, the people who want to do that genetic test, doctor?
In the whole republic.
Okay, I'll pass you my Instagram, I think it's the easiest place where you can find me,
it's this Gaby with Y, Tortosa, T-O-R-T-O-S-A, Gaby Tortosa, M-C-C, Mac, Gaby Tortosa Mac.
And the exam can be paid with a credit card, in fact.
We have all the forms of payment.
Do you have small payments?
That one no, but there we see how we can help you, according to the case.
In one way or another, you can work with people.
Doctor, where can you find people who say,
I want an excellent cardiologist, you are a cardiology team in Guadalajara?
Yes.
Where can they locate you?
It's called CETEN Center Specialized in Endovascular Therapy,
on the website, there you can find me.
Okay, thank you Telefórmula, we'll be back in half an hour on Radio Fórmula,
we'll continue from Guadalajara, Guadalajara, I doubt it.
See you.
Thank you.
Go ahead.
Continue the conversation with Marco Antonio Regil in Fórmula.
In Guadalajara, Guadalajara, from the beautiful facilities of the UDG,
Dr. Efraín Gagiola is with us,
cardiologist, member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology,
and Dr. Gabriela Tortosa, surgeon with a Master's in Nutrition
and expert in genetic exams that can detect the propension to sudden death.
The issue remained pending and I would not like us to leave it like this,
nothing more, the issue of what we all know, it's obvious,
we all know, eat fruits and vegetables, eat whole foods, eat fiber,
but what is it, doctor, can we underline a little more,
what is it that we should avoid?
I told the doctor that I have many friends who have Mexican companies,
Mexican enterprises, who are making a huge effort to produce products
that are obviously processed but are much healthier,
and they tell me, hey, it's not fair that they put my Quinoa integral cookie,
which almost has no preservatives, everything,
that they confuse me with the one that they put the same ones on,
and that they put it in the blender of the little cake with cream and sugar and candy,
or in a ham, in a sausage, it's not the same processed as ultra-processed, doctor.
Definitely it's not, and that's where it's good that you make that clarification,
because processed can be a corn tortilla, for example,
a tortilla and that's not satanized, right?
But basically the ultra-processed, there would be, for example,
that they put a lot of chemicals, softeners and preservatives,
that are really harmful to health, you eat it and in your body there is a boom,
an inflammation alert, that is, it has to make an effort,
quite important to get rid of that, right?
And all the fast food also comes in there, for example,
everything that is like, as I always say, like fried dough.
Fried dough would be maybe one of the best examples,
for, that is, in fried dough the donuts come in,
for example, what other things come in, churros,
like all that type of carbohydrates with fats, potatoes, all the potatoes,
and the toasts, the sausages, like that, and all the, uh-huh, and the sausages.
I think that would be like the group, and let's not talk about fast food chains,
that most, for the same reason, are fast,
so they also use, well, fats, they are like soap bars, they seem like that, right?
Of a fat, totally, as I say, that not even flies stop, I don't know,
you grab those soap bars where nothing organic grows in them,
I don't know, I mean, they don't decompose, I don't know if I'm going to understand.
No, you make yourself understood perfectly, and by the way I was watching a documentary,
I don't remember the name right now, where they were talking about how in the first world countries,
basically Europeans, in the United States, in Canada, I don't know, Norway, Finland,
the fast food consumption is going up, because people are already gaining consciousness,
but where are fast food chains focusing?
In Latin America, in the Arab countries, in the Asian countries,
where we still don't gain that level of consciousness,
and where they go, obesity grows, cardiovascular problems,
chronic diseases, degenerative diseases, diabetes, and that costs,
which is the part that I just didn't understand, how the government doesn't get harder,
because it costs a lot of money for the government to be cleaning the garbage
that fast food leaves, ultra-processed.
Definitely, we are almost at 70% of diabetes in Mexico,
above 40 years, I, almost all the patients above 40 years,
I do tests of hemoglobin, glucose, glucose, insulin, they come out,
with signs that they are going there, that they are already knocking on the door to diabetes.
And it takes money for education, it takes money for security,
it takes money for a lot of things, and a money is going to be spent on solving
bad food that destroys everyone's lives, and our taxes are being eaten.
Exactly, you said it.
Well, we are going to... that topic we leave to Ciro Gomez Leyva,
and Joaquín López, sorry, we gave him a big laugh,
but that's not a topic of a political party, it's a topic of all political parties.
But doctor, in the court you mentioned that the way of cooking,
there are also strong dangers, that we could improve, that are easy to change.
Yes, we were talking about the Mexican, well, we all love frittangas,
you go to a restaurant, they have a pot with oil or butter,
and they put the quesadilla there, they take it out,
the problem is that after the day is over, they keep it,
and the next day they put it back in the pan or the pot,
and they reheat it again, and this is really a time bomb,
as far as damage to the food.
You don't recommend that.
Not at all.
So we have to take it out of love, because you can eat delicious food,
and we can bake, or one thing is to fry, and another thing is to put butter or oil in it.
Totally.
Butter, why do we want to use pork butter?
Or yes, what does a cardiologist say, an expert on pork butter?
Well, I think we have very good alternatives,
olive oil, I think there is really not much point of discussion,
which is what you have to use, if we want to eat a fish, a meat,
well, to the grill, simply.
And note, Mado, not to use the oil like that, that is boiling,
even if it is at home, that you are not in fast food,
the same olive oil, whatever, but not to cook, so that smoke comes out,
that you can hear, that is, that the fire is at half, half low,
but that it never burns, that it, you know, that it...
Yes, and you get used to it, and the palate gets used to it,
because when you stop eating super fried things,
at the time your palate, I say it from my own experience,
you give me something already full of oil or with butter,
well, I would reject it, but before, it was the only life I knew.
The beans, now, a plate of beans from the pot,
that are not fried or anything, with avocado, onion, cilantro,
tortillas, whole rice, hey, it's a delight,
but you have to change your palate.
As they say, as in my ranch, beans in water and salt.
Of course, hey, nopalito, yes, yes, very rich.
Hey, well, I think one of the great opportunities
that we have as Mexicans is to learn these things
that I ask myself, like many, why don't they teach us this in school?
They teach us a lot of valuable things and others that I will question
how valuable they are, because you just learn them from memory
for the exam and you never use them again in your life, right?
But they could not teach us tools that really
would affect us more and better in our lives.
I think there is an opportunity, a very big educational reform
that should include nutrition, the lifestyle, right?
It would not be a... So, well, to talk about that,
to talk about what your point of view is and what the UDG is doing,
a round of applause for the UDG, who is our host.
Today, here in Guadalajara, Guadalajara,
we have the pleasure of welcoming, or rather, he welcomes us
because we are at the university,
he welcomes us to the UDG director, Ricardo Villanueva Lomeli,
I ask you for a round of applause for him who is with us.
Look, look, second consecutive year,
we started to investigate, director, and I said,
let's see how good the director is.
Second consecutive year as the best evaluated director
in all of Mexico, in 23 and 24, he was recognized
by the Campaigns and Elections Mexico magazine
as the best evaluated director at a national level.
It's him, it's him.
Perfect, very good.
A whole star of the directors.
No, on the contrary.
You won the Super Bowl of the directors.
It's like the Super Bowl, yes.
The worst thing is that I'm going to San Francisco,
veins, Marc Antonio.
I also suffered with you.
I suffered with you.
It's my team all my life, right?
I was touched by the time of Joe Montana and that,
so I'm still sensitive, Marc Antonio.
I won't mention the Super Bowl.
Imagine that you are the boyfriend of Taylor Swift.
Well, that would be good.
I'm going to imagine that today.
Ricardo, the UDG, I know that it's doing
incredible things for health.
It's the university, tell me if I'm right,
the UDG is the university that generates
more green energy in the country.
Yes.
It's correct.
They are doing wonderful things.
What role does education play in the change
of habits that can lead us to a healthier life?
Well, I think everything.
I've always said, and I've repeated it a thousand times,
that universities are much more than a
living room, a bathroom and a teacher, right?
In universities we train human beings.
That's the first thing to understand,
not only professionals.
In the French Revolution period,
it was understood that universities
trained citizens before professionals.
What I've said is that here we have to understand
that we train human beings,
and that means a full-time training.
So, since I became rector, we've been doing
a re-engineering and we opened an area
that doesn't exist in the university
called the full-time training coordination.
We are dedicated to doing things outside the classroom.
There is an academic process,
the curriculum that happens in the classroom,
and that is an academic process
that we have been doing for 230 years
at the university.
But there is a process outside the classroom
that is also our responsibility, right?
And that's where culture, sport,
and all kinds of activities come in.
They are involving nutrition.
Nutrition, without a doubt.
And well, I've always been a promoter.
I was once secretary of finances at Jalisco.
And I said that if we invested in paying
for children's food in schools,
in 50 or 100 years it would be cheaper
than what we do by paying for hypertension,
diabetes, and all the consequences of health,
of kidney failure, and of everything that happens
40 years later for not eating well.
So, not only... and I've done some financial studies
of the cost of the Mexican state in all that
against the cost that would be if in all-time schools
we gave food, not only taught to eat.
It would be cheaper even if we gave food, right?
Because there we would not only teach,
we would force healthy food, right?
And economically, a school that has an extended
day in the primary school,
recovers half of the population,
which unfortunately are women generally,
because of the machismo that we live,
which are the ones that...
it seems that children are from women, not from men,
who take care of them.
If we release a full day for the children
to go to school for more than 8 hours,
we recover half of the population,
which could have a professional activity
instead of taking care of the children.
So, a policy of a school with an extended
day in the primary school, in the secondary school,
could generate a food plan where the children
would learn to grab the love of rice and avocado
in the primary school, right?
And that, indeed, we would educate the food plan
from before, and that would be cheaper.
And change, let's take a little break,
we'll return to our last segment,
but if you throw yourself into politics,
I vote for you.
Right? Because nobody has to talk about that
in political campaigns, in nutrition and education,
in forming habits.
We'll be back after a break, when we return
we'll continue talking with the UDG rector
and our cardiologists from Guadalajara.
See you later.
Alímate.
Make podcasts easily.
Alímate.
Continue the conversation with Marco Antonio Regil
in Fórmula.
Come on, here we are in Guadalajara,
Guadalajara, the UDG.
Today's question, the confessional,
today we open in MarcoAntonioRegil.com
Diagonal Fórmula.
64% of the people said that
they do know someone who has suffered
a sudden heart attack.
27% said no, and 9%
had never heard of
a sudden heart attack.
So, we'll close that conversation there.
He's with us here from the UDG,
Dr. Efraín Gagiolo, cardiologist,
member of the Mexican Society of Cardiology,
interventionist, Dr. Gabriela Tortosa,
surgeon with a master's degree in nutrition
and expert in genetic tests
that can help you prevent, well,
to know if you are prone
to a sudden heart attack.
And the UDG rector,
Ricardo Villanueva Lomeli,
evaluated as the best rector
in two consecutive years
throughout Mexico.
And we were talking about a very important topic.
To me, well, tell me if I'm the only one.
I know there are important issues
in the country.
Right now we're in the election year, very important.
I mean, we're talking about insecurity,
and the economy, and the reforms to the Constitution.
Very important.
But I, as a Mexican citizen,
am very frustrated that the issue of
food, prevention of diseases,
and food and physical health
is not being discussed.
Nobody is discussing it.
I've never heard of
even the topic being discussed.
And it costs millions of pesos.
And as the rector said,
it would be cheaper for us to learn
from children to eat healthy,
to subsidize unprocessed food,
and to give this education.
Why is it like the elephant
sitting in the room
and nobody talks about it?
Why? Rector, tell me.
Unfortunately,
there is a lack of long-term planning
in Mexico.
I mean, I think we plan everything
in the short term.
I mean, I see in the first world countries,
when an mayor arrives,
you know which streets are going to continue,
which highway is going to continue,
and you just execute it.
Here we have very short-term planning.
So, indeed, these structural, financial issues
need to be seen in the long term.
And yes, unfortunately,
there are politicians who don't have long-term vision.
I do believe that, even financially,
in 50 years we would start saving money
if we do politics from the primaries.
That's the answer.
And what I was saying,
the strongest thing is that if women
could leave their children, and men,
because we have to be responsible for men
as well as our children,
in a school, to recover all that
power of work,
that work force that exists,
but if women or men could
stay and make healthy food
to help the family,
some members of the family stay
to help them and not have to buy
processed products, that would help.
So, having a school with an extended schedule
allows that in schools
physical education is given
every day,
you can go beyond the academic supply.
What you were saying,
what are we teaching?
The square root, I could have tried math
in the prepa, but I don't know the square root.
Every year I ask my students,
I teach social theory,
does anyone know what the square root is for?
I've never found anyone who can tell me what it is for.
The perfect square root.
They tried it several times.
Sometimes we were teaching things that
are not bad to teach in the square root,
that's what we have to teach, what is bad is not to say what it is for.
The knowledge should be
accompanied with the use.
Nutrition should
be something that should be
taught, that is so important for life.
A more practical education,
but I hope the rector gave us the answer,
because my question was, and I'm not talking about a political party,
my question as a Mexican is
why does not any political party talk about this?
Because it is a plan
that will be effective
in decades, and what politicians want
is to show something that can be effective
immediately.
The campaigns are sometimes emotional,
people vote for emotions, not for reasoning,
and that has to be changed.
But we have to start reasoning,
not to get emotional with the vote.
Doctor, what were you going to say?
I was going to say about the exercise, which is the same in schools,
for example, I don't know why it happens,
I remember in my time, well I am 48,
but in my time, physical education was
many days a week, I see that every time they are reducing it,
and there are schools that have one day a week,
others once every 15 days.
It should be daily.
It should be daily, rigorous,
because it goes hand in hand, food, exercise, prevention.
And physical education, not just
military education,
taking distance, step over step,
different sports,
but if you
mold a child, a child is plasticine,
if you mold him to eat well, to exercise,
what will happen as an adult,
he will go as a soldier on the right path.
And physical education should include
heart education, cardiovascular education,
building of muscle mass,
reduction of body fat,
and emotional education too, and emotional.
Because that is the most important.
And financial education, those are other topics,
but just in the beginning,
physical education, not just step over step.
That's right.
Here I would like to make a comment,
two, one,
of what our rector was doing,
is that
those long-term plans,
the problem is that in Mexico
there is no continuity, there is change
of government, and whoever arrives
takes everything that was.
Second, the future, obviously,
is childhood.
If children learn
to exercise, to eat healthy,
they will grow, and when they are
parents, that will be transmitted
to their children.
And it is,
I never saw a woman
driving with a child,
crossing in the middle of an avenue,
dragging the child and
pulling out the cars. So I told my children,
when these children grow up,
they will do exactly the same
when they are parents, to cross the street.
Why? Because they don't have education.
But if they receive it, as Dr. Gaby said,
when they are parents,
they will transmit that knowledge,
that culture of exercise,
of feeding,
of caring.
Yes, and a human being,
my dream would be to see a Mexico,
Mexico is a rich country,
what I think is that wealth does not reach all levels.
To have wealth at all levels,
we would have to have healthy Mexicans.
How can you ask a person
who has been poorly fed
for generations,
you are the fourth, fifth, seventh generation
that developed
with low quality food,
that did not exercise,
how are you going to ask them to do their best
and to reach their maximum potential
if we have not taught them
to live healthy?
What kind of employee will it be?
What kind of entrepreneur can it be?
What kind of professional can it be? What kind of politician?
If the body is not well,
the rest will not work,
we will not achieve our dreams like that.
Totally. And it is that we have become obsessed
with specialization, what the doctor said is true.
We have been removing
from education basic subjects
such as civics,
Greek-Roman etymologies that were very useful to understand the language,
things that were very basic knowledge
because of that obsession
with specialization.
So we have been changing the study plans to put
mathematics, physics, chemistry, specialization.
So that is a mistake
that I recognize in universities and we have forgotten
about the human.
That is, because of that obsession with science,
technology, technological advancement,
we have been believing that the important thing is the square root
and not nutrition.
So we have to make reforms
to the study plans
to return to the basics.
When things get so complicated, we have to return
to the basics again.
Well, thank you very much for having us here at the UDG.
Let's give a round of applause to the rector Ricardo
Villanueva.
Thank you very much. We hope to return
to Dr. Gabriela Tortosa.
And repeat where you are for the genetic test, please.
Oh, well, I send you my Instagram.
It's gaby with Y,
Tortosa, M.C.C.
Mac. Gabby, Tortosa,
Mac, M.C.C.
Let's give a round of applause to Dr. Gabriela Tortosa
and also to Dr. Ricardo Villanueva
Lomeli. If someone wants to
treat you or your cardiology team,
where can they find you?
CETEN,
Center Specialized in Vascular Therapy.
Go to the website.
There you will find everything.
All the specialties, sub-specialties.
And I just want to close with a small
comment. I read
a little while ago an editorial
where, particularly in medicine,
it's all technical,
it's the specialty, but you forget
the humanistic things,
the things of psychology, emotional,
which are very important for the patient.
And those are called filling materials.
They say, what's it going to serve me?
I prefer to have the last one.
It needs an education reform. It needs it.
Deep, deep. Friends, thank you. Tomorrow we will continue
transmitting from Guadalajara. We will be from the
Tequila Regulatory Council and tomorrow
we will talk about traditional
relationships. They are falling
and they will disappear or they still
have possibilities. And we will also
talk about polyamory. Is it an alternative
or is it pure warmth?
Tomorrow from Guadalajara.
Thank you, I'm Marco Antonio Reguilas. See you next time.
Thank you.
This was a production of Grupo Forumular.