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And today, my dear friends, we are going to dedicate this program to a very important topic,
our beloved money. It costs so much money to earn it, to save it for retirement,
to prepare a real heritage, that when someone comes and steals our money,
through fraud, for example, it's very painful.
And that happens to people of all ages.
Obviously, we all know these stories that happen to people of a certain age,
to the older adults, to the grandmothers, to the grandfathers
who are at home and they get a call and they sell them something
or the typical one who goes online and sees an old, precious sofa
and wants to buy it and they go and buy it from someone
they don't even know online and then that person disappears
because the sofa never appeared, what they sold never appeared
and they even block you and everything.
But also, every time digital frauds become more sophisticated
and not only the older adults fall, people of all ages fall
I don't know about you, but every day I receive at least one email
that says your cell phone, your iPhone, your computer
or whatever, or your confirmed trip, a thousand pesos charge
and in small pieces it says, if you think this is a mistake
call this number and there is the fraud.
That is, it is something that did not happen.
Or they grab and send you a bank notice supposedly
and they send it to everyone, right? So let's say if they are
making impostors from a bank, let's say BBVA, they send it to everyone
and a percentage of people have the account there, then they scare
and fall into fraud, that is, every time frauds become more sophisticated.
100,000 complaints a year in Mexico, complaints of frauds
but according to Forze Mexico, 15,000 to 13,000 extortions are registered
every day, every day and the digital world has made things worse.
Today we are going to talk about how to detect it, how to prevent it
and what to do if we already fall.
Monica Turcato, a graduate of the faculty of science at UNAM, will join us
who is director of fraud prevention, precisely from BBVA
and who has 14 years of experience helping people to prevent these frauds.
She will also join the conversation, Zahar Icabello, a graduate
of the acting and mathematics career at ITAM and who has a master's degree
in risk management with 20 years of experience and experience
and if that is not enough, Dr. Raúl Valencia, the bull, who is a doctor
in law at the Panamericana University.
Three super experts who in their hearts, in their mission, are helping us
not to fall into frauds or if we fall, to know what to do.
We open the conversation at marcoantoniorregil.com, diagonal formula
in the confessional and today's question is, have you fallen into any fraud?
Digital fraud, fraud in person, romantic fraud, we are also going to talk
a little bit about romantic frauds. Have you fallen into any fraud? Yes or no?
marcoantoniorregil.com diagonal formula, I was going to say diagonal fraud, no,
diagonal formula and there you can give us your opinion.
So we will be with questions and answers from our public and above all
today with solutions, things that this program can save you from losing
what you have earned or saved with so much work and it can also help you,
help other loved ones who may not be so informed and who can easily fall.
I have been, as much as I am informed, they make them so sophisticated that
on several occasions I have been about to fall. I click and say no, no, no, no,
wait a minute and I'll come back because they also tell you that your Facebook account
has been canceled, that someone hacked your Instagram, that I don't know what,
that is, they are super sophisticated and these people sometimes are in Mexico
but sometimes they are in China, India, the United States, Central America,
other places in the world. They are professional criminals and they even have call centers
and no, no, no, the issue is very sophisticated so it is convenient for you to stay
so that we can learn together and we can achieve our maximum potential
and that includes that they do not steal our money, which is ours and that so much work
cost us to earn it. Let's take a break. I am Marco Antonio Regil in Fórmula.
Stay with us, we'll be right back.
Until February 29th with your authorized distributor.
Today, dear money, financial well-being is part of a full life.
Have a conscious economy, align your values and goals.
Discover the effective way to maintain a balance.
Open your way to financial freedom.
Reach your maximum potential. Marco Antonio Regil in Fórmula.
Dear money, I don't want you to be robbed.
Dear money, I don't want you to make a fraud.
Dear money, today we are dedicating the program to understand that this issue of fraud,
especially digital fraud, there are also romantic frauds and well,
traditional frauds face to face, those are already well known,
but today we are basically talking about online fraud, digital fraud,
phone fraud, how to do it, how to prevent it and it adds to the conversation.
In our survey today, the confessional was checking my Instagram,
in the stories of Instagram you can vote, it's Marco Antonio Regil.
53% of the people who answered the survey so far, we put it since yesterday,
says that they have been victims of a fraud and 47% say no,
we are talking about more than half of the population.
And the conversation adds up, as I was saying, Mónica Turcato,
who is Director of Fraud Prevention of BBVA,
precisely 14 years of experience. Mónica, you dedicate all your day
to preventing fraud and helping people precisely in that.
It is my mission and the of my team, of course.
It is a very nice mission, right?
Yes, the truth is that it is very rewarding when we achieve it,
but it is frustrating every day because we see that the attempts are many.
They are many and increasingly sophisticated,
because today the criminals are at home sending emails,
using electronic devices, using graphic design, using the bank's logo.
Exactly, using sounds, voices and technology, they use technology a lot.
What is more common, the fraud that I receive an email and fall into the trap of clicking it
or the fraud of calling by phone and releasing my data by phone?
The fraud of calling is the most common, now it has many derivatives,
they can call you for many things, in the end they end up convincing you of something,
whether it is to give you your keys or for you to make a transfer movement yourself,
but that is the most common.
Now, bank entrants never call you by phone to ask for data.
Never.
Give me your access key or give me your user or your account number.
A bank never calls you to ask for data.
Never. When the bank calls you, it knows it is with you and it knows your data
and it knows all your information, it doesn't have to ask you for anything.
In fact, in BBV now we implement something that we call a call to insurance
and through the app we send you a message to let you know that we are going to call you.
This was a very big effort to give the clients certainty that when we call them, it is us.
But even in that, we are not going to ask you for anything.
Nothing. Well, that is already, listen carefully,
no bank is going to call you to ask for data.
If someone calls you and says it is from your bank and asks you for data, it is a fraud.
It is a fraud, just like that.
And before the doubt, it is better to hang up and say, you know what?
I am busy, right now I can't, hang up.
And you better call the bank, not the email phone that appears, the one they sent you,
but you call, you go to the official bank page, you see what the phone is and you can communicate.
Indeed, that is the way to act. Hang up and call in case of any doubt.
Yes, exactly. What are the most common frauds?
I told you that most are by phone call.
In the call, the fraudster tries to scare us, right?
The typical one, hey, you have a charge for both insurance or for a purchase or such.
So this makes people panic because your money, theoretically,
they are taking it in something that you did not do.
So that is the most common fraud.
The call can already lead to many things and they ask you for different behaviors, right?
That you send money, that you protect it, that you give the keys, that you give information, etc.
But there is the key, fear. They try to scare me.
They give me a charge that does not correspond to me.
And since you are afraid, when the emotion rises and the intelligence falls,
you panic and that is where you fall.
That is where you fall. Yes, you enter your five minutes of confusion and you fall.
And there you fall.
You know that in the United States they call a lot of immigrant agents who have immigrants' names.
When I lived there, they did it to me.
They supposedly call you from the IRS, which is like the SAT,
and they tell you that they are talking about the Treasury Department, the IRS,
and they have a debt of $20,000.
And if you do not pay it today, we are going to send the police to take you to jail.
And you get scared.
And the first time they told me that, I called my accountant and he laughed at me.
He said, no, Marco, they do that to immigrants.
So they look for Arabic, Latin names and everything.
So they are making it more sophisticated. Isn't that happening here in Mexico?
They call you from the SAT to pay a debt?
With the SAT it happens more on fake websites.
They simulate the SAT website, they simulate the tax payment website.
There was a very big one that surely reached everyone with customs.
You received a text message that said that there was a package that was retained
and that they could not deliver it to you.
And there was a link.
You entered a customs website, you paid five pesos,
but behind the defrauders they made all the information on your card
and they made another purchase with that same information.
Of course, and they also told you, you reminded me of DHL, FedEx,
of any of these companies, we have not been able to deliver their package,
please communicate.
And they get the information.
And there, I don't know, 50% of Mexicans are waiting for a package.
Of course, your Amazon purchases, or the Iron Palace, or something.
And you say, my package is going to be lost.
Exactly.
I'm scared again.
What other fraud is very common?
Well, by phone, they talk to you to offer you promotions with your points,
and they tell you that you are going to transfer the points
and you end up making a transfer of money to someone.
The one you were talking about, the email,
I mean, they send you an email, making me go through the bank,
where they tell you that you have to update your computer.
Or they tell you that someone got into your bank account,
and you have to report it.
And you have to recover it, report it with a link.
So, just as we never give data by phone,
we never click links in email.
Let's see, let's repeat, we don't give data by phone.
And we don't click links in email or in the page.
Exactly.
They stole your account, they hacked your account,
there is a charge in your account, we need to verify your data
so that they don't steal from you.
They are the thieves.
Exactly.
And does this happen to older people more than to young people?
Or are they getting along?
It's a belief that we have,
because of the lack of knowledge in technology.
But no, we just get some indicators from our own,
and in percentage, young people receive the same amount of attacks
as older people.
A few months ago, I was started to be reported on Facebook
that there were people who contacted them from the Marc Antonio Regilo team
because they had won a car, or they had won a trip,
or they had won something and they were reported,
and we were like, no, nothing to do with it.
Or guests, people who said they had been offered to be on my podcast
and that for a certain amount of money,
they were sent to doctors, psychologists,
and they were paid, and we didn't charge the guests.
So we didn't charge you for that.
And they get paid because with that money,
they are guaranteed to be on a podcast,
which could be anyone's Mewable.
They are super, super sophisticated.
Yes, another common one is job offers.
Job offers.
In fact, it has happened to us with BBVA,
that they contact people in BBVA's name to offer them work,
and then they ask you to pay 300, 400 pesos
for a socio-economic study, a medical study,
and then you don't get a job, and you just lose your 400 pesos.
So that doesn't happen either.
And if they find your phone,
they can send you an aggressive WhatsApp, for example.
That happens a lot.
Or they extort you, threaten you, and they get paid.
Exactly.
Once I got a call, one of them was insulting me,
saying, Marco Antonio, son of a bitch,
we know everything, we have the photos.
If you don't deposit 100,000 pesos, we'll publish it tomorrow.
And I have a pretty boring life, so they didn't have photos of what.
But imagine if they catch someone, a married person,
who is behaving badly.
I mean, someone who does have a tail that they step on,
and they tell you that, and they just say it as a generic.
And you fall.
And you send them 100,000 pesos or 10,000 pesos, or whatever.
Yes.
So you have to behave well and you have to be careful.
Because then, by text message, by WhatsApp, by email...
By phone.
On social media too, they steal your Instagram or Facebook account,
and then they ask you for a ransom for it.
Of course.
Or you know what happens a lot?
They clone Facebook or WhatsApp pages to a person,
and they start asking for money in your name.
They steal your WhatsApp, Marco, and they start writing to your friends.
Exactly.
Hey, can you lend me some money, please?
I have an emergency.
You have an emergency, and from there, they get the money.
Or they clone your profiles, let's say, they put you,
in my case, from Regil with a G, they put a double G, and you don't realize.
And they take the same photos and they make a little clone, and you fall.
You fall.
And wow.
And they do the same with the bank.
They clone the bank's page, they clone the logo,
they clone the bank's Instagram account.
Super creative.
We are constantly reviewing this type of cloning,
and that there are no pages simulating our...
Yes.
But they do it with any shopping page.
You think you're buying something and you're giving your information.
Of course.
Well, let's take a little break.
Monica will continue with us, and we'll go to the conversation with Zahary Cabello,
who is also an expert on this subject,
and he will give us tips on how to detect a fraudulent call.
And we'll also talk about what to do.
If you already fell, what do you do?
So the program has very good content.
We'll be back after a break.
Cheer up.
Continue the conversation with Marco Antonio Regil in Formula.
Dear money, I want to take care of you.
I don't want you to be robbed of me.
It cost me a lot of work to earn you.
Then I paid my taxes.
And for someone to come and steal it from me,
for someone to scam me today,
taking advantage of digital tools,
that is terrible.
According to Forbes data,
most of the crimes of digital scams are not reported.
We are talking about 15,000 frauds daily in Mexico,
13,000 extortions a day,
and most are not reported.
The most common modalities, according to Forbes magazine,
are montadeudas, financial pyramids,
phone extortions, false awards, among others.
And there have been 16 legal reforms in this legislation
in the current legislative period
to try to reduce the incidence of these crimes
and increase the fines for the guilty.
The problem is that many of those guilty
are not in Mexico.
They are out, or they are using a VPN
to mask the address,
they don't detect you,
maybe you are in Mexico, but they say you are in Brazil,
or you are somewhere else.
So it is sophisticated,
and with the arrival of artificial intelligence,
what a thing.
So that's why we have to be informed.
Ignorance costs a lot of money.
And that's why, to inform ourselves,
to educate ourselves and to take care of ourselves,
we have dedicated this program here at Radio Fórmula,
this program today,
so that we can educate ourselves.
We have Monica Turcato,
Director of Prevention of Fraud from BBVA,
who continues here on the program.
We have already talked about some of the most common forms,
and she joins the conversation, Zahary Cabello,
current 20 years of tradition in the Mexican financial system,
and you had a master's degree in risk management,
right, Zahary?
Yes.
I didn't know there was a master's degree in risk management.
Oh, yes, that is, for 10 years now, this has been...
At ITAM.
That's right, that is, for the economy,
so that nobody is offended by one of the best in Latin America,
in fact, not just in Mexico.
Hey, the issue of artificial intelligence,
theft of identity, fraud online,
what comes to your mind when I say all this?
Yes, well, right now I'm working at Queski,
and it's a technological platform,
and we face many of these challenges
because we don't have physical presence.
It's like a subject of going to a branch and asking questions,
or you have the client and you know it's him.
So one of the most important challenges is the theft of identity.
So theft of identity, suddenly the fraudsters
get personal information lists,
I mean name, date of birth,
in our case, right, Mexicans have our CURP,
and then from that they begin to apply for credits
pretending to be those people.
Suddenly they build an entire identity.
With the CURP.
With the CURP, with all this data,
there are times when they also get copies
of the official identity, of the INE, for example,
which then on Facebook you see that there are even people who sell INEs, right?
So you have to be very careful with the use that is done,
or where you are lending or showing your INE,
that is, that no one uses it.
And since they ask you so much,
I mean, they ask you for anything,
then you have to charge it with you.
You charge it with you, but they can use it,
they make a very bad use of this.
So we, for example, have technology
just to say, well, I have the INE, I have the data,
I want to make sure it's you, it's you, Marc.
So I ask you to take a picture,
to take a picture of your INE,
and there are some tools of artificial intelligence
that are verifying that the faces coincide and so on.
What has happened to us, even,
that suddenly we say, no, well, it is that,
if it is the person's identification,
if it is the person's photo, what happened?
Doing research and listening to the calls
of when users complain,
and understanding a little more the case,
suddenly we find out that there is also,
as Monica told us,
that they get data by phone,
in malls or in some public place,
they are telling you, hey, Marc,
can I do an interview?
Yes, look, I just want your name,
your date of birth,
that is, all the data we need.
Let me take a picture of your ID,
and I'll give you 200 pesos,
a thing like that.
And I'll give you a little gift.
And then you have a survey,
and they will ask you one or two additional questions,
and people leave with the idea that nothing happened.
So you don't have to trust yourself,
and you don't have to show anyone an official ID.
And yes, we are using technology,
but fraudsters also have technology, right?
When I saw this issue of the faces and the videos
that could simulate anyone.
Oh, oh, oh.
Yes, right?
And that's an interesting challenge,
that we are going to face several financial institutions,
but that in the end is a reality.
So they take images of social networks,
they take images of various points,
and with that they sometimes build the entire identity of people.
I think that's something that we have to contemplate a lot
when we are going to decide with which financial institution we are going to be,
how advanced is your app,
how safe is my information,
because there are banks after banks.
It's very advanced in terms of banks and applications.
I think it's even better than the United States in modernity.
There are things that we do beat the United States,
and the security of banks is one thing,
but you have to check well with the bank
how much security there is, right?
Yes, yes, of course.
A lot of security, and as you said a while ago,
as well as tips that I always bring to mind,
is if I receive a call, a contact by mail,
a contact by WhatsApp,
because it is also a very frequent channel,
then WhatsApp, check that there is the little dove
that this account is certified and that it is official,
that they never ask me for personal data,
that they rather tell me,
hey, you made a purchase for this amount,
for something very specific,
and you just have to answer yes or no,
and it will be in any of these channels,
email, call.
And what we said before going to commercial is the call,
they call me, what key questions can I ask?
What tips can they give us to identify a fraud?
Yes, well, we, in any bank,
the first thing you can ask is,
why are you calling me?
What is the object?
Take care not to give out information
and ask the questions yourself, right?
Not to allow yourself to fall into this
I am being asked questions,
don't answer,
that is, you ask the questions.
We have this particular message service in your app
prior to what we are going to call you.
In the case of BBVA.
But sometimes they even call you from a number
that seems to be the bank's number,
because they manage to mask the phone numbers.
So people say, well, it's the bank number,
I trust you and I give all the information.
So don't trust the number,
don't trust your question,
question for you to be called, question you want,
and face any questions better,
okay, thank you very much, I receive the information,
and you call.
I hang up and I call.
They called me for this, and you solve it, right?
And I verify that if I am marking the bank number,
not the number they sent me in the email.
Of course, never remember the number put there.
Any advice, Saharit?
Yes, I think what is super typical is that
they tell you if you made a purchase in such a place,
in such a large amount,
and if the only thing you answer is yes or no.
You verify another type of data until you feel comfortable,
but you do not give any additional data.
What is your date of birth?
Nothing, you do not give any additional data.
Another alternative that I like a lot,
additional to calls, in case you want to verify,
or if you want to say no, I call later,
or I contact later, is the chat,
WhatsApp or the chat I have in corporate,
just because there you can have like the whole record
of the information, what time you made the report,
you can protect yourself a little more,
and apart you are nervous, right?
You can see all the details of what is happening.
So using the chat can be a good alternative,
but always directed to the official page of the institution.
Do not panic, do not be afraid,
do not make a call with fear, do not scare me.
Exactly, do not scare me.
Just recently, in fact, on the weekend,
my mom told me,
hey, I left my debit card in the locker room, what do I do?
So it's the same, if you lose your card,
cancel it immediately.
You call the bank, you cancel it,
because there it can be like a source
that has the fraudsters to take your data
and do other things individually.
So if you do not find it, better cancel it
and then get another one.
In the next segment we will talk about preventing,
because in fact there is an organization
that can help us protect ourselves
and act in case of having fallen into a fraud.
So in the next segment the conversation will be added,
Dr. Raúl Valencia,
who is a doctor in law of the Pan American University
and who is precisely an expert in that,
and we are going to touch between the three,
you three who are the experts,
what to do in case, I do not want to fall,
but if I already fell, what do I do?
How do I report, how do I proceed,
how fast can I recover it?
It is the same as if they make a fraud of my credit card
than my debit card,
I should be using the debit card
or it would be more convenient for me not to use the debit card
and try to get, with good credit, obviously,
a credit line to protect my debt.
It is the same or not the same?
What happens if they steal my bank account directly?
The tokens that companies give them in business bank,
should I charge them with me?
Or where should I keep them?
The papers, because if you open an account
and they give you the whole folder full of papers,
and there comes everything, there comes the account,
sometimes you write the NIPA so that you do not forget,
there is the token,
that is, if someone comes to your house and grabs that,
then there is all the information,
it is very interesting, so in the next segment
we will talk about how to prevent it.
We will take a break and come back,
and on another topic, but in our podcast this week
we will talk about Don Miguel Ruiz,
the author of the Four Agreements,
a beautiful episode, if you have not seen it,
go and watch it on my YouTube channel,
Marco Antonio Regil TV, on YouTube.
Don Miguel Ruiz, with the Four Agreements,
explains his book, himself,
the author of this legendary book.
And this program can be seen, obviously,
in Grupo Fórmula on YouTube,
if you miss part of the program live,
in addition to RadioFórmula.mx,
on the YouTube channel of Grupo Fórmula,
every night, you can see it,
there you can listen to it every night,
all the programs are up there.
We take a break and come back with
very important tips that can save you
from a fraud, or how to react
if you already fell. We'll be back.
Annimate.
Follow the conversation with
Marco Antonio Regil, in Fórmula.
Today we are talking about how to
take care of our money so that we don't get robbed
in the famous frauds.
Frauds, frauds, frauds, and frauds
of thousands, millions, dollars,
of pesos in the world,
it is a problem that has been increased
with the use of technology, because
technology is used by children
and good girls, and children and bad children,
and there is a lot of professional delinquency,
that is what they do.
There are call centers,
that's how they work,
they are professional teams
with supervisors
and perfectly organized
to defraud you.
If they play in a team, it is better that we also
play in a team with information
and education, and that is why today we have invited you
to a first-level team.
Follow us, Mónica Turcato,
Director of Fraud Prevention of BBVA,
also Zahary Cabello,
who has a master's degree in Risk Administration
in ITAM, and the conversation is added
by the Doctor of Law,
with the Doctorate of Law of the Pan-American University,
Dr. Raul Valencia del Toro.
Welcome.
Thank you very much.
Not Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Law.
Well, they think, Doctor, well, you are going to recieve me a medicine.
No, Doctor of Law, which is the highest degree
that you can achieve when you study
the law degree.
Is it true that there is an organization
that can help us? Because the question here
is, ok, they already told me
how to prevent it, but ok,
I fell. At what moment,
what was I thinking, what did I do?
I fell. They caught me in my five minutes.
Who can defend me,
now who can defend us?
Well, there are several
alternatives, Marco Antonio.
First, we have an organization that is
Conducef, which is the National Commission
for Protection and Defense
of Financial Services.
But it is important to say that this
organization is only going to help
if a financial institution is
really involved in the matter.
Because many times the financial
institution has nothing to do with it.
If the person to whom you called
or sent an email, etc.,
gave you their data, their confidential keys,
you fell into that fraud,
then in that case,
the financial institution is not to blame.
Because when you sign a contract
with the financial institution, they tell you that
those keys are confidential
and that any misuse
that is made of those keys
is your responsibility,
your responsibility, it is your problem.
It is not a problem of the financial institution.
Even the advisors,
when they are helping you change your key
or your password,
they themselves tell you not to tell me.
Just put it, don't tell me.
Even they should tell you.
So Conducef can help
if the financial institution
had something to do with it.
If an institution, an advisor,
a promoter, whatever,
if the financial institution had something to do with it,
effectively, the complaint is presented in Conducef,
either in Conducef itself
or in the financial entity itself
that has to have
a specialized complaint unit
where any person can go
and present the complaint
and then the procedure is initiated.
Conducef logically puts itself
aside from the financial services user,
not the financial institution.
So it will help
to really continue
with the procedure
and if the financial institution is responsible,
it will be able to
put the amounts for the user
in charge of the financial institution.
Only if the financial institution is responsible.
Because many times
the institution is not responsible.
In most cases it is not.
They stole your personal data.
Let's say the bank is taking care of you personally
and you don't give your data to anyone.
Exactly.
And when it was my responsibility
or my lack of care or my innocence,
I fell.
And because many times those who steal your data
don't have to be a stranger online,
they can be a family member
who does it, people of your trust.
So who defends me?
Exactly.
Remember that fraud is
when taking advantage of the error
in which another person is found,
you get an undue profit
or a profit, you get wealth.
Under that context,
the Federal Penal Code establishes
the sanctions, which are
strong sanctions,
of prison and economic sanctions
for those who commit fraud
and then there is a ball of conducts
that match the fraud.
Even the data theft
is like one of the conducts
that match the fraud and are also
punished by the Penal Code.
So what do we have to do?
We have to go and report
to the prosecutors.
That's what we have to do.
Many people don't like it because of the process,
because of what is delayed,
but it's the best defense we have.
As soon as we really
fall into a fraud problem,
whether physical or digital,
electronic,
we have to go and report.
Nowadays there are reports
that can be presented online.
However, it depends on the type of crime,
but we have to know the things
that happened in each crime
to see if the online report is accepted
or if we have to physically
go to the prosecution.
Which page should I go to?
It's very simple. For example, in Mexico City
you type in the online report CDMX
and it appears on the internet.
The ones who listen to us in the rest of the country,
in Tijuana, in the middle...
In any other part of the country,
because we have to distinguish if it's a federal crime
or a local crime.
The same thing,
online report Tabasco
and there appears the topic
in any part of the country.
And if I think my bank failed me,
then I'll go to the Conducef.
Only if you consider that the bank
is really responsible.
So suddenly the money disappeared from my account
or I received some charges that I don't think I did.
Exactly.
So why do you recommend the Conducef?
Because the Conducef will help the financial services users.
However, the report
is important if you
have to do it,
maybe it's convenient to do both.
And where do I find the Conducef?
Well, you have
central offices in Insurgente Sur.
But online.
Online you have the Conducef website.
So I look for Conducef and it appears.
Yes, Conducef website and
the data of the Conducef will appear, but to present
the complaint you have the possibility
to go with the financial institution or you have the
possibility to go with the Conducef.
But it's really a physical complaint.
You have to present a physical description.
And is there Conducef all over Mexico?
It's centralized.
They have offices all over the country,
but let's say the central office
is in Mexico City.
I'm not saying because the ones that see us in Hermosillo, Monterrey or Guadalajara.
There are offices representing the Conducef
everywhere.
You have to look for it.
I invite you to join the conversation
if you have any questions
for the doctor also.
I don't know what we have heard about,
but I'm not sure what it is
and if it really helps me.
It's the Cyber Police.
Is it an international police?
Who are they?
In Mexico we have
32 Cyber Police.
One in each state and Mexico City.
It depends on the federal government.
And there is one from the federal government.
Each state has its own Cyber Police.
Each state has its own Cyber Police
and one from Mexico.
From Mexico as a federation.
And how do I find that one?
On the internet.
I search for it completely online.
Mexico City Cyber Police,
Federal Cyber Police, etc.
And you find it online.
And there you can file complaints, all online.
There is no such thing as a cyber police.
A police that has been created
to check online issues.
Internet issues, not just fraud.
Any illicit behavior
that is presented through the internet
is the investigation police.
In Mexico City
there are two characteristics.
Is it preventive or is it investigative?
In the preventive part
they are giving advice
to the people who call,
who communicate,
by phone or by internet.
And they say, this is happening to me.
And the Cyber Police themselves
start telling them what to do
and what not to do.
They answer you and everything.
That is the preventive part.
The investigative part has to do with the judge
who is the cause.
Because logically the police
is the one who always investigates.
But the judges give them the ability
to continue investigating.
Well, doctor, these 16 reforms
we are reading here, the source is the Forbes magazine
in Mexico, which says
that in this sexeño
16 legal reforms have been done.
Well, it says legislative period, not sexeño.
To reduce the incidence of crimes
and increase the penalties for the guilty.
Are, in your judgment,
are good reforms
useful if they are
catching more criminals
with those reforms?
They are good reforms, but they are not enough.
We need much more things.
What has changed, for example, these reforms?
Constitutionally, it is established
precisely the issue of
information technologies
as a possibility for the Congress to regulate
in the matter of information technologies.
And in this case, we have
a bill project
from several months ago, last year,
about cybersecurity
that has not been approved.
And about artificial intelligence,
which you mentioned a while ago.
And those projects have not been approved
definitively.
About identity theft?
In the issue of cybersecurity,
precisely what the authority
should do to protect
itself
between authorities and
to protect the citizenry.
And guidelines for each person
to protect themselves from
cyber attacks,
hackers, etc.
So it is a very important law
that should be approved.
And about artificial intelligence,
the management of artificial intelligence
with all the ethical problem
it has. Why? Because a while ago
they mentioned that
they are suppressing your identity,
whether it is facial,
or how you speak, your voice, etc.
It just happened
an important issue
in a Chinese company
of international size,
where they talk to a director
of finance in the United States
and they tell him, hey, deposit 20 million dollars
on this account. And the director of finance
of the entire group in China is talking to you.
So this person says, no, this is a fraud,
I will not listen to him. They quote him
to a virtual conference
and they put the director of finance
theoretically on the screen.
And he explains to him,
yes, you have to deposit these 20 million dollars
on this account for this, etc.
And this person is convinced
and deposits the 20 million dollars.
And it was not.
With artificial intelligence
they reproduced the director of finance
of China. At that level it is already there.
What I have seen
is that it still looks a bit fake,
but it has already reached the level.
This happened a few days ago.
But with that
they can open my cell phone, my account
in the bank or not?
No, as it is. There we have to compete
and raise the level
of the technology that we use.
For example, the app
is not possible for someone to enter
with a face made with artificial intelligence.
It has certain
identification measures of this type
of fraud. Or what Sahari explained
with the opening of accounts
and the INE, the photo, etc.
There are elements that we put
in our technology that help you to filter
these things made
by artificial intelligence. But you have to
go every day, every day improving
because they are also improving.
Yes, a lot of money. I would go with the next question.
What else are banking institutions
doing with their knowledge
to protect themselves and us
as users too? Because it is a protection
for all. What else are they doing? Where is the ball going?
Yes, in our case
what we do is put several controls,
either for access or authentication.
That's why we suddenly say, hey, give me your email
and confirm that
you are the one who is doing that, give me your phone
and I will send you a number.
Give me your digital fingerprint.
Then we do several verifications
and additionally we also do
several checks. Usually
when there are very large amounts
or operations as not
so common, it is when
we know that our alerts are turned on
and that's when we put a little more
controls so that we make sure
that it is really the person who has to be doing this.
And well, there is a lot of technology behind it.
Information, artificial intelligence models,
we are getting together with all these things.
For our peace of mind, banks
have specific teams
that do that all day long.
Go improving, improving, improving.
What is the name of that department in a bank?
Or who are the ones working there?
Because there are hackers and fraudsters
and the bank has to have its team
that is counteracting.
Yes, well, we have many teams
involved, mine in particular, which is fraud prevention,
but we have one of cyber security,
we have another one of physical security
and we all work with the technology teams
that are the ones that are developing
and developing new things and advancing.
Yes, because they are sophisticated, right?
I suddenly for entertainment
there are YouTube channels where some
good hackers hack
and you see them getting in
and they discover them and they are in India
and they are still being harassed by a victim
and on the contrary, they steal
their databases from the fraudsters,
they delete the information from the computer,
they turn on the camera and they say
I'm watching you and you are in such a location
in India, there is a lot,
it is not the only country in the world,
but there are YouTube channels there
and you realize that they are like call centers,
that is, places where there can be
hundreds, hundreds of people
together in a fraud team and that there are managers
and managers and they are scaling it,
it is a professional thing,
it is not a guy throwing a taco in the house
watching what it hits. No, they are intelligent,
organized people, we
have a multidisciplinary team
and we call it the anti-fraud league
because we need to be prepared
in all aspects,
from the operation
to the most sophisticated models.
Doctor,
an important thing for the audience,
when they receive
a call or receive
a message,
an email, it is important that they take
a little time to analyze it
because the rush is what
benefits the criminals,
if you do not start thinking,
you act only in what they are asking you and you already fell.
So take a moment
to see if what they are asking you is real,
because many times
there you realize in the emails,
it says it comes from Forbes and it turns out
that it is from Hotmail. I do not know what,
it is not Forbes, there you realize.
When they call you, what do they do?
They call you, they ask you for your physical
phone, this
local phone, so that you are
on two phones and no one
can tell you that you are falling into a problem.
So at that moment
you are not thinking about
talking to a third party, so take
that moment, if you can hang up, hang up,
talk to someone else, hey,
they are telling me this, how do you see?
And surely someone tells you, no, no, no, they are
trying to extort you, because the problem
is that people act so fast and
they do not let you move, which is
when you fall. Now on the issue of
cybersecurity, people
when you talk about cybersecurity say, ah,
they are going to put some impressive systems that
are going to eliminate hacking,
cybernetic attack, it is
more than impossible to eliminate
hacking and cybernetic attacks.
You have to be careful. But
I can ask you to wait for us, the time is going,
we are going to stay another half hour on Radio
Fórmula, but the friends of Telefórmula, here we close
the broadcast, they will be with Maxine Goodside,
I thank you very much for Telefórmula, the
information they gave us, on Radio Fórmula
we will continue live. Tomorrow, by the way,
Thursday and Friday we will be in Monte Rey,
Nuevo León, and the topic of tomorrow here in the
program will be how to take care of our
energy, being tired,
not sleeping well is something that
is not convenient for us, and tomorrow we will talk
about a form of self-love, which is to take care
of our energy.
So do not miss the program tomorrow
from Monte Rey, Nuevo León. Thanks, Telefórmula,
we return on Radio after a break.
Get ready.
Continue the conversation with Marco
Antonio Regil on Fórmula.
We continue live with our guests
talking today about the topic of frauds,
especially digital, theft of
identity, cybersecurity, so
we do not fall into that. Mónica Turcato,
Director of Fraud Prevention of BBVA,
BBVA,
that everyone keeps calling her Vancomer, but
she is also known as BBVA,
Zahary Cabello, who has a master's degree
in Risk Administration, yes or no?
Yes.
BBVA, Vancomer.
Doctor in Law,
Raul Valencia, who is also
an expert in cybersecurity.
A number of messages
on my Instagram account, that is Marco Antonio Regil,
says, for example,
the notary does not write,
Funtani Crocs,
since in Instagram they put exotic names,
the notary did not write
in my house, a year and a half later
we realized, what do we do there?
It's a fraud, it's not digital, but
the notary did not write in my house.
So, who is your office?
We should see the reasons why he did not write.
I am a public courier in the city of Mexico,
not a notary.
But, I mean, when you are going to write
a property, you have to
first manage with the notary
and see that the corresponding procedures are being done.
Of course, you have to pay
the notary, the corresponding taxes,
and the notary has to write.
It's difficult to understand, I didn't realize
how I didn't realize in a year and a half.
You didn't check something, right?
Of course, you have to take responsibility and verify,
not wait for you to...
Of course, and if it is a notary, a specific one,
then you have to go and tell him, hey, what happened?
And if not, report.
And if even to the notary school and everything,
also put complaints, to see what happened,
or report. Here there is a real estate fraud,
they say Venezuela, but well, in Mexico
I have also heard a lot, Mayra Camacaro.
Fraud and real estate in Venezuela
sold a land to build many people
at the same time, that is, they sell land
that is not, that is not owned by them.
Of course, many times, which is one of the
questions that are typified as fraud.
Selling the same thing several times
is clearly a fraud, you have to go and report.
Yes, Tallera Matt says the calls
from the bank that tell you that you have
a charge, at that moment they caught me
driving and with rain I fell.
They caught you in a curve
in your five minutes. Pause,
nothing happens if you don't answer. Pause.
Pause and think. Cindy Rao 89,
they bought a television,
a television, my name, through the virtual store
De Claro Colombia.
Well, there, that is, it is not
De Claro's fault, but they stole the data
and then they got in there.
Yes, a compa, says Pato
Beret, says a company worked like Telcel
gave me a Samsung device and it was a
hacked phone.
How strong, right?
Sophisticated, sophisticated.
Pato Beret also says in TikTok
for watching videos, I received small deposits
and then it was to make payments and I received double.
If it sounds too good
to be true,
it is a fraud,
do not fall, because then they also take advantage of
they want to see your ambition.
Hey, I need to send a money
that you keep in your account.
A inheritance, but I'm
in China and I need to send you
the inheritance, give me your account number,
I'm going to deposit it and you say, ah, I'm going to screw it up.
Poor thing, like Gavilano
Paloma de Jose Jose.
Exactly.
Silvia Bluf, when they want to hire you
so you can work from home and they ask you
to go somewhere else.
There it is too.
Well, there are a lot of messages.
It says, Van Coppel
sold my data and they could charge
30,000 to my credit.
Well, we'll have to see how
Van Coppel sold the data.
Well, a while ago they said
that
if they steal your identity
and use that information to go with
several financial institutions to get
credit and indeed they have fallen.
Several financial institutions, if they grant
the credit, even checking the credit bureau,
even checking what they should
check, they have fallen.
So it is important that
both financial institutions clearly
check the information, as
when you realize it, immediately
report it, and immediately
if it is a financial institution issue,
go to the bureau. Because indeed
it has happened. With your own
file, you have taken a credit,
a car, whatever, a phone,
with your own file in several
financial institutions. So you have to be careful
with that. It happened many years ago
in the United States, in Wells Fargo, which is one of the
largest banks in the United States, where
the same bank doubled and
did, to reach their numbers,
let's say, to open more bank accounts,
they doubled or tripled the bank accounts.
It was a strong federal scandal.
Now, here we have to see if the bank
was the one who transmitted that information
to some bank employee, or they gave
their data elsewhere and in the end they believed
that it was the bank. That is also important.
We have to verify it, because we do not know.
Carolina Diaz from Ciudad de Mexico, which is
one of our partners who signed up at
marcontonio merquil.com. The formula asks us,
I am about to buy an apartment and the
contractor I contacted has some comments
that they are fraud. How can I make sure
that the company is reliable? What would
the institutions I could go to
avoid a real estate fraud be?
In that case, we have the Profeco,
which protects the consumer
from the incorrect
activities of the companies.
Yes.
It is not a financial issue, because there is no
financial institution in the middle, so there is
the Profeco and it can help them
and identify if the company exists,
if it does not exist, etc. They also have to
present their complaint to the Profeco
and there are offices in the entire country.
So that would be a line
regardless of the issue of the
complaint that I already mentioned.
Cecilo Zano from Ciudad de Mexico says, if we notice a
fraud, what is the most convenient and safe thing to
do to take care of us and stop
their actions? You noticed it.
I have a fraud, this is a fraud.
I did not fall, but what do I do?
Can I help prevent other people from falling?
Who do I talk to? Who do I tell them?
You can report it
to the bank. We have
a line of suspicion,
fraud. I did not fall, but we collect
the information to try
to prevent other people
from falling and you can raise a complaint.
You can always raise a complaint
to report the phone number,
to report the name. Or the email.
The email. I receive
an email with the name
X, Bank Institution.
I realize it is a fraud.
So I call the bank and say, hey, I received
this email.
And you send it back to them.
The cyber police that mentioned it.
Another important tip,
I think that if you already fell and gave some
information, typically they ask you
for keys. So,
look at your passwords, change them
immediately in the institutions'
portals, in your email,
because it is also a very typical
medium. So, I gave you information,
cancel the account or change
passwords. And if they were phones,
there is where you can report
what fraudulent phones are,
you do it online and there it is
registered as a fraudulent number.
With the cyber police too?
There is a specific phone
where you... and an internet
email account where you
send that information and it is already registered
as a fraud. On the internet.
But how do I find it?
Fraud...
Lines, fraudulent phones,
or fraudulent phones. And there it appears
where you should report it.
Now, also on social networks nowadays
it is very easy
to pass the information
of what is happening and that is when people say
be careful with these things, it is also worth it.
Listen, for example
sending data
by WhatsApp, what is safer? If someone
asks you, you have to send it for a credit
or something, they say send me
your bank account status.
What is safer? Send it by WhatsApp, send it
by email, because you have to send it
by email somehow.
How do I do it?
I mean, I think there is, if there is no
other way, delete or delete
or hide the sensitive information
and that it is not necessary
for the process. And make sure
that the accounts
that this information is sent to are official accounts
or that they come from
certified pages, those that have
the little pad next to the HTTP.
So, it would be a little bit of that.
What is less dangerous, WhatsApp
or email?
I think it is easier to verify
that it is true
that it is from the institution of an email
or WhatsApp, because if you write
an executive from your
WhatsApp account, you will never be able to verify.
But for me, in the case that it is
a mailman
who is looking for credit,
I am going to buy a car, a car, a house
and he is looking for credit and he is going to
check with several banking institutions and he says, hey, send me
your ID,
the birth certificate,
the account status, the latest six months,
a lot of sensitive documents
and I have to send them because
how do I send them?
Or to your accountant, there are a lot of ways
in which you cannot avoid sending
sensitive information. I think it is the same
as dangerous in WhatsApp as in email.
The issue is that you really notice
that you are sending it to the person you want to send it to.
But can't they intercept it
from the outside?
Hardly.
Or verify it.
Hey, you asked me to talk on the phone,
you asked for this information, yes or no?
No, no, no, that has been super clear to me.
I have to verify who it is, but I mean, I already know that if it is
such a person, the banking institution
is asking me for something.
Now, typically when they ask you for your credit card,
you never send the back
where the numbers come from, it is not allowed.
Sure. What is more
or less dangerous?
Manage debit or credit card?
If they clone my card
and they take something from me, what is worse?
That they clone my debit card or my credit card?
What is worse?
I say that debit card is worse.
Because they take you directly from the bank?
Exactly.
So, the credit card, at least I can fight with the bank
and say, hey, I didn't do this job.
Yes, and normally
the credit card is more limited,
you have certain limits,
the credit card has more ways to protect them.
You can limit daily expenses,
put certain conditions.
This would be one more reason
why we should use the credit card
not to pay us and pay high interest,
but simply as a payment method
to eliminate debt.
Ok, perfect.
Let's take a little break.
We have a couple of questions
from the public and we will leave it
to you. You wanted to say something about cybersecurity, right?
Yes.
Going back to messages in 30 seconds, give us a preview.
What are we going to talk about?
Well, people think that to protect you
from cybersecurity
you have to use systems, and with that
you already protected yourself.
But there is a statistic that says that 95% of the success
of the hackers, the fraudsters, etc.
is due to human error.
So, the first thing is that you have to work
one and prepare yourself
to avoid that error
and then other procedures that
we will talk about in a moment.
We will talk about it in a moment, and one of the topics
is to give us advice on where to store
our passwords. Because there are a lot
of passwords for a thousand things that we are
using. Where do I store them? I write them
in the old man's book in the house and I put them in a
safe or I put them on my phone.
But what if they steal my phone and I open it
and there it says, where
do I store the passwords?
Is there any software, an app,
how do I protect myself? You got nervous already.
That's a very good question.
Yes, they are very obvious questions.
We will be back after messages
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in Formula.
Digital frauds, we are thinking how to avoid them
by preventing us from learning. Monica Turcato
is Italian, is her last name?
Yes, Italian.
Monica Turcato, director of prevention
of BBVA fraud,
Sahari, hair, that's like Arabic, that name, right?
Yes, Arabic. Very good. She has the name of a princess
Sahari, right?
She has a master's degree in risk management
and she has the right to Raul Valencia.
Raul has the name of a footballer.
Very good. Raul, the scorer.
He beats frauds.
He has a doctorate
in law. Listen,
civil security, doctor, you wanted to mention something.
Yes, basically there are
specialized companies, first
to train people to not
fall into these issues.
Even with inocu hacking.
They send you a hacking to see if you fall,
test, etc.
Constant training, because
95% of people fall.
Then comes the processes
that must be implemented, where
you have to protect the information
properly, have a
risk analysis topic in which
you identify what the vulnerabilities
are, how
you qualify them and how you can mitigate them.
And in the end
the software, the systems, etc.
Just to strengthen
the part of cyber security.
So all that path must be carried out
for the effect that you are well prepared.
Not just put a system on
and nothing happens to me because it will not happen.
Listen, technology
precisely, where do I keep the
blessed passwords?
In a little notebook in the old one or on my cell phone
and I change the names, but then
when I want the password I don't remember how I put it.
So I find it.
The convenient thing is that in your own
device, computer,
iPad, cell phone,
you have
with padlocks, with
one password that you know,
you keep all the information.
So that is recommended, because
even if they steal your cell phone
or whatever, maybe they won't be able
to enter that part because it's just a password
that you know and there comes the rest.
If you leave them in the
normal keychain, then there will
be some problem. Of course.
In fact, I think there is a company called One Password
like a password that gives you
one and you save everything and
you just use one and where you connect.
There it is. Well,
you have to check it well. I was telling you
in the commercial section, those virtual
private networks that are known in English as
VPN, Virtual
Private Networks.
Is it worth hiring one? Which is the one that
changes your location. I mean,
I use it if I want to see a local
football game in the United States.
I get in and I tell them I'm in Los Angeles
and they give me the local channel programming
in Los Angeles, for example. Or I'm in the United States
and they give me access to
Netflix in Mexico, whatever.
That's why they are used for entertainment, but at a security level
is it worth having
these VPN services?
I think that for a
personal common use it's not worth it.
I mean, it's really
more careful, like the ones I mentioned
a while ago, the doctor,
to have my passwords, not share data.
Not so much that type of investment.
I mean, more specialized uses in companies
or something more
sophisticated, and there it could be.
They tell you to use it, for example, if you're going to
make a online purchase, instead of saying
so you don't reveal your location,
it's useless.
Or is it?
Actually, location is not something that
puts you at risk in a transaction
for e-commerce. In reality, it's data.
And what you don't have to do is use public
networks. Public networks, the airport.
Exactly, the airport,
the SoCal, the...
Because those are exposed,
they don't have many
security measures, and there are many people
entering the same network, and then they can...
I'm at the airport, my flight is delayed,
I'm going to take advantage of it to make some payments.
No, no, no.
Wait until you get home,
or at least to the hotel, which can be safer.
Or use your data,
your cell phone data.
No, but don't connect to the airport's network.
Or the restaurant's network.
To save data, you go there, exposing yourself.
Now, there are companies that have their VPNs,
like a kind of intranet,
so that all the information is managed
through that private network.
But well, today with the cloud,
you also eliminate a bit the VPN issue.
No, it's super risky, I agree.
In the World Cup in Russia, I was working in
Telemundo, and we went to cover with Telemundo
the World Cup in Russia. They gave us a cell phone
and a computer that we only use in Russia,
and it was prohibited, we brought our own
network, and it was very prohibited
to use public networks. When we came back
from Russia, we gave the computers and cell phones
to the company, to Telemundo,
and that's it. Because there was
a lot of hacking, the people who used
the networks in football stadiums,
thefts, identity thefts,
it was very well known.
Yes, it was very popular.
Russia is one of the most active countries
in hacking issues,
nowadays.
Many hackers are in Russia.
Speaking of applications,
there are some that offer you
this virtual card service,
where they give you
your data from your card,
and then for each transaction
it gives you a number, which is only for that
client, for that purchase,
for that transaction. But obviously,
I haven't downloaded it, because I have to
give all the data from my cards
to that application, and now they have all the data
from my cards and my passwords.
Hmm...
What's worse?
The broth is not more expensive than the meatballs.
What you can distinguish which one is
good is complicated.
Some are very well known, like PayPal,
which are safe,
it's a medium payment that works for you
that way. So there you can...
Exactly. But with most banks
it's not necessary, you have your digital card
in the bank itself, the app gives you,
it changes the code dynamically,
the CBB, the code.
Yes, the three numbers on the back.
And with that it's the same...
And it changes, that's wonderful.
Ok, perfect. Listen, on another occasion
we'll talk about romantic scams,
because it's very hard, the romantic scams.
Here I have some data that the newspaper
published, it says that in 2021
the romantic scams generated more than
600 million dollars in earnings
for criminals. And from one year
to the next they rose 100 million.
In 2020, 500 million dollars
in scams, in 2021, 600 million.
And we're already at 24,
I don't know...
As soon as possible.
As soon as possible, yes, because sometimes
people close to you, that happens like the
Tinder scammer, the Netflix series,
where you think you're in love
and you found the love of your life
and it's a scammer or a scammer.
Of course, and they start asking for money,
they give you the money, then again,
and again, be careful, analyze it.
Yes, it's super delicate.
Quickly, Paula Godinez from Mexico City,
I hired a travel service, shared time,
they modified my monthly and annual
salary, with whom do I report?
I want to conclude, that's the...
It's a big problem. How to end
a shared time? Who directs me?
The prosecutor's office and the
prosecutor's office.
Ok, perfect. Listen, doctor,
where are we? There are many people
who want to say, hey, you have your office.
Yes, with pleasure. I have a
lawyer's office since 25 years ago,
and we have a cybersecurity company,
which is GEMED Cybersecurity Latam,
you can find us at www.valproconvechica.com.mx.
Wonderful. Zahary,
what can you give us as a recommendation
from your financial institution?
Well, I've been working at Quesky
for several years, it's a financial platform,
so you can order credits online,
directly on the website, we don't have intermediaries,
quesky.com or queskypay.com,
also to make purchases,
so I invite you to meet us.
We pay a lot of attention to these security issues,
fraud and others, so that they are protected
in all their transactions, both clients
and businesses.
Mónica Turcato, the BBVA's
parochial warning, would be?
I want to invite you to watch a very
fun program that we have called
It's Fraud, with
Rodrigo Murra, and in a very dynamic way
we teach all users of the financial service
how to detect all this kind of
fraud. Where can we see it?
On our YouTube channel, the BBVA channel,
and on social networks.
Wonderful. Well, here on Radio
you will meet Daniel de Turvide,
and we will go to Monterrey from here.
I'm going to the airport, I'm going to Monterrey,
because tomorrow we will be from Monterrey, Nuevo León,
talking about self-love, self-care,
and one of the
important things about self-care is to
take care of your energy level.
Nobody can do very well in life if they are
dragging the towel all the time and getting
into coffee excess
or these drinks
that are not healthy at all,
to raise the spirits. That is not normal.
Having energy is natural,
and tomorrow we will be talking with specialists
from Monterrey about this topic.
I also invite you to go to
marcoantonioirregil.com, diagonal formula,
you can sign up as partners,
it's completely free, and we will be
leaving you with a lot of free stuff. In fact, you will leave us
four packages of Dr.
That's right, Valencia de Toro Professionals,
the office that we have, with great pleasure,
for your audience. Four packages,
we will give them randomly
for people in Mexico City. Stay with
Valencia de Toro, I'm Marco Antonio Regil, thank you
from Monterrey, Thursday and Friday
we will be broadcasting, so thank you,
thank you, thank you, I hope we really have
learned something important, I learned it.
Thank you all. Thank you.
Adios.
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