WEBVTT 00:00:13.710 --> 00:00:18.870 Welcome to the 2024 season finale of the Kronos 00:00:18.870 --> 00:00:24.250 Fusion Energy Podcast. As we conclude the 2024 00:00:24.250 --> 00:00:28.469 season, we reflect on a year filled with insightful 00:00:28.469 --> 00:00:31.589 discussions and groundbreaking advancements in 00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:36.149 fusion technology. Our journey has taken us through 00:00:36.149 --> 00:00:39.630 the intricacies of plasma physics, the development 00:00:39.630 --> 00:00:43.109 of superconducting magnets, and the exploration 00:00:43.109 --> 00:00:47.270 of sustainable energy solutions. We've had the 00:00:47.270 --> 00:00:50.469 privilege of engaging with leading experts who 00:00:50.469 --> 00:00:53.750 are at the forefront of reshaping our energy 00:00:53.750 --> 00:00:57.210 landscape, providing listeners with a comprehensive 00:00:57.210 --> 00:01:01.270 understanding of the challenges and triumphs 00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:05.189 in the pursuit of clean limitless power here 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:11.209 at Kronos Fusion Energy. I am deeply grateful 00:01:11.209 --> 00:01:14.790 to my co -founders and our founding board advisors 00:01:14.790 --> 00:01:18.129 for their unwavering dedication and the wealth 00:01:18.129 --> 00:01:22.790 of experience they bring to Kronos Fusion Energy. 00:01:23.849 --> 00:01:26.750 Each of them is a colossus in their field and 00:01:26.750 --> 00:01:30.540 I feel incredibly humbled to work alongside such 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:33.400 an exceptional group of individuals every day. 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.200 Their collective expertise and passion are the 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:41.239 driving forces behind our mission to revolutionize 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:46.140 the energy sector. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:52.099 my co -founder, Dr. Konstantin Pachucin. Our 00:01:52.099 --> 00:01:56.140 journey began at the Anthenium at Caltech a couple 00:01:56.140 --> 00:01:59.840 years ago. where an electric conversation about 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:03.579 the future of fusion energy laid the groundwork 00:02:03.579 --> 00:02:08.159 for our current collaboration. Since our inception 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:12.659 in 2022, Constantine's profound expertise in 00:02:12.659 --> 00:02:15.539 universal mechanics and advanced mathematics 00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:19.479 has been instrumental in advancing our mission 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:26.060 to create a mini sun on Earth. Dr. Bachachin, 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.960 is a renowned professor of planetary science 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.300 at Caltech, celebrated for his pioneering work 00:02:34.300 --> 00:02:39.419 in planetary astrophysics. His research encompasses 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:43.199 the formation and evolution of the solar system, 00:02:43.780 --> 00:02:47.780 the dynamic behavior of exoplanets, and the intricate 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:53.020 processes within planetary interiors and atmospheres. 00:02:53.659 --> 00:02:56.870 Notably, He has been honored with the prestigious 00:02:56.870 --> 00:03:00.750 Sloan Research Fellowship and was named a Packard 00:03:00.750 --> 00:03:04.509 Fellow, underscoring his significant contributions 00:03:04.509 --> 00:03:10.289 to the field. In today's episode, we embark on 00:03:10.289 --> 00:03:13.169 a journey through the frontiers of astronomy 00:03:13.169 --> 00:03:18.650 and fusion energy. Dr. Bachajin shares insights 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:22.289 into the upcoming Vera Rubin Observatory set 00:03:22.289 --> 00:03:26.629 to become operational in 2025 and its potential 00:03:26.629 --> 00:03:31.169 role in discovering Planet X. We also explored 00:03:31.169 --> 00:03:34.409 the distinctions between the James Webb Space 00:03:34.409 --> 00:03:38.189 Telescope, optimized for close observations and 00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:41.930 spectrum analysis, and the Vera Rubin Observatory, 00:03:42.389 --> 00:03:48.030 designed for wide field searches. Additionally, 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:52.139 We get into the utilization of particle accelerators 00:03:52.139 --> 00:03:55.979 in fusion and material sciences, particularly 00:03:55.979 --> 00:04:00.139 in isotope production, and discuss advancements 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:05.919 like ADS and accelerator -driven fusion for future 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:11.719 material innovations. Our conversation then extends 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.360 into the theoretical concept of muon -catalyzed 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:20.230 fusion. examining the potential of muons to drive 00:04:20.230 --> 00:04:23.449 fusion reactions and the challenges posed by 00:04:23.449 --> 00:04:27.870 their short lifespans and decay tendencies. We 00:04:27.870 --> 00:04:31.769 also consider the prospects of future cold fusion 00:04:31.769 --> 00:04:36.189 generators emphasizing the necessity for the 00:04:36.189 --> 00:04:39.689 advancements in superconductors and material 00:04:39.689 --> 00:04:45.040 science over the next century. Dr. Bachchan highlights 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.199 the transformative role of artificial intelligence 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:52.079 in managing complex simulations and optimizing 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:55.920 fusion energy stability, especially with quantum 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:59.319 computing's capability to handle multidimensional 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:04.470 calculations. We reflect on the evolution from 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:07.810 theoretical quantum mechanics to practical quantum 00:05:07.810 --> 00:05:11.430 computing, discussing how qubits can enhance 00:05:11.430 --> 00:05:16.389 complex simulations in fusion. We also get into 00:05:16.389 --> 00:05:20.910 his ongoing research on Jupiter's primordial 00:05:20.910 --> 00:05:24.949 state, using the orbital dynamics of its moons 00:05:24.949 --> 00:05:29.759 to infer conditions billions of years ago. The 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:33.199 episode concludes with an exploration of the 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:37.100 potential impact of next -generation telescopes 00:05:37.100 --> 00:05:42.500 and fusion technology in the near future. The 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:45.819 way he sees it, at the end of the day, all the 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:49.100 physics, fusion energy and math are a big ruse 00:05:49.100 --> 00:05:52.399 to further his music career. So don't forget 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.680 to check out the seventh season. Link below. 00:05:55.930 --> 00:06:00.269 where Constantine is the lead vocalist and guitarist. 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:03.750 The Seventh Season is a Los Angeles -based rock 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:07.389 band. Their powerful vocals, electrifying guitars, 00:06:07.949 --> 00:06:11.310 solid bass lines, and dynamic drumming create 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:15.490 an energetic sound that has captivated audiences 00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:19.189 across the globe. So don't forget to check out 00:06:19.189 --> 00:06:22.910 Seventh Season's latest releases and experience 00:06:22.910 --> 00:06:26.810 their captivating performances. I am Priyanka 00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:31.709 Ford, the founder of Kronos Fusion Energy. How 00:06:31.709 --> 00:06:36.089 are you doing, Constantine? Listen, I'm doing 00:06:36.089 --> 00:06:38.750 great. I'm doing great. Science is coming along, 00:06:39.009 --> 00:06:42.629 you know, spooky weather is here, so my favorite 00:06:42.629 --> 00:06:45.829 time of the year. Halloween is my favorite thing 00:06:45.829 --> 00:06:49.910 ever. Yeah, yeah, I like the time of the year. 00:06:50.370 --> 00:06:53.050 Yeah, the whole changing of the weather, it's 00:06:53.050 --> 00:06:57.490 beautiful. Have we found that planet yet? Planet 00:06:57.490 --> 00:07:01.410 X? Have we found that yet? The night is young 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:06.069 and full of terrors. We haven't found it yet 00:07:06.069 --> 00:07:10.350 because I think most people have stopped actually 00:07:10.350 --> 00:07:12.209 searching in the last year or so. And that's 00:07:12.209 --> 00:07:14.410 because there's a new telescope coming online 00:07:14.410 --> 00:07:17.889 next year that's going to kind of eat everybody's 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:21.029 lunch, so to speak. What else is to you, which 00:07:21.029 --> 00:07:23.470 is also known as the Vera Rubin Observatory? 00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:29.160 starts operations and that's scheduled for, science 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.980 operations are scheduled for summer of 2025, 00:07:32.899 --> 00:07:36.959 it will scan the sky up and down kind of every 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.319 night. And so it won't scan the entire sky, of 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:44.639 course, because it's in the southern hemisphere 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.480 and parts of the northern sky are unavailable 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.199 to it, but it's gonna get a lot of... I'm just 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:51.420 going to get a lot of stuff and that's going 00:07:51.420 --> 00:07:53.819 to be really a revolutionary point for all outer 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:57.939 solar system research. And yeah, I think that 00:07:57.939 --> 00:08:00.259 telescope has the best chance of finding Planet 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:04.800 Nine and if not it will at the very least kind 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:10.379 of independently confirm or refute for that matter 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:13.199 the various lines of evidence that we have for 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:20.259 it. This is better than the JWSD or just different 00:08:20.259 --> 00:08:25.100 better? It's different, yeah. So JWST is an infrared 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:29.279 telescope which is designed basically for characterization. 00:08:29.699 --> 00:08:34.600 So you can look at one thing with exceptional 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:37.279 precision and take its spectrum. That's what 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:42.840 JWST is good for. The Barrow -Rubin Observatory 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.360 is an optical telescope and it's ground -based 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:49.879 and it has a huge field of view. So it's kind 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:53.299 of a, it's more of a search instrument rather 00:08:53.299 --> 00:08:56.100 than a characterization instrument. So yeah, 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:57.860 you don't want to be searching for your target 00:08:57.860 --> 00:08:59.740 with like a sniper rifle, right? You want to 00:08:59.740 --> 00:09:01.919 be searching with something with a larger field 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.919 of view, like binoculars, but then you want to 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:08.240 characterize it with a, you know, with something 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.279 like JWST. So once we find Planet 9, we'll definitely 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.600 look at it with JWST to figure out what its atmosphere 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.019 is made out of and if it has a surface, you know, 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:24.919 that kind of thing. Nice and and you have The 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:29.820 only reason you can use this Sniper scope is 00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:32.720 because you've mathematically done the calculation 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:36.960 To figure that point out. Is that right? Yeah, 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.240 I mean it's it's kind of The only reason there's 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.500 motivation I would say to look for the planet 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:45.620 in the outer solar system in the first place 00:09:45.620 --> 00:09:50.860 is because like you said the mathematics points 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:54.259 to the existence of a planet in the outer solar 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:57.440 system. I mean, the solar system, at this point, 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:03.480 its structure makes no sense if there isn't something 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.799 out there shepherding the small object's gravitation. 00:10:09.669 --> 00:10:12.750 Do you mind explaining that? That's fascinating. 00:10:13.429 --> 00:10:17.110 So where is it actually pulling on the entire 00:10:17.110 --> 00:10:21.269 solar system, on our outer planets? How big is 00:10:21.269 --> 00:10:26.690 it? How much is it pulling? Okay, so this is 00:10:26.690 --> 00:10:30.789 a... I'm glad you asked this because I think 00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:36.840 I have something like an explanation. the calculations 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:41.059 point to a planet that's about five Earth masses, 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:45.039 okay, and that goes around the sun once every 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:50.860 10 or 20 ,000 years, and does so on an appreciably 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.159 eccentric orbit. So an orbit that's kind of elliptical 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:58.120 and out and around, right? So does it pull on 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:03.840 everything? Sure, it does. But its effects are 00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:07.720 amplified the further out you go away from the 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.340 sun. So for example, if you were to say, what 00:11:10.340 --> 00:11:13.860 effect would it have on the Earth's orbit? The 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:18.100 answer is it shifts the Earth's location by about 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:21.679 one meter compared to planet nine's not there. 00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:27.600 So that's a genuinely pathetic effect, right? 00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:30.299 Like changing the location of the Earth by three 00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:34.850 feet just doesn't matter. But if you go out beyond 00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:38.269 the orbit of Neptune, for scale, Neptune's at 00:11:38.269 --> 00:11:40.070 30 times the distance between the Earth and the 00:11:40.070 --> 00:11:42.629 Sun. And if you go another order of magnitude 00:11:42.629 --> 00:11:46.309 out, for things that are 300 astronomical units 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:51.830 and beyond, there you really get to see this 00:11:51.830 --> 00:11:55.389 planet kind of pulling all the orbits into a 00:11:55.389 --> 00:11:59.250 common direction. shifting their orbital plane 00:11:59.250 --> 00:12:02.529 by about 20 degrees relative to the plane of 00:12:02.529 --> 00:12:06.509 the solar system. And so you can kind of see 00:12:06.509 --> 00:12:09.330 almost this floral arrangement or maybe it's 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:13.509 a gravitational arrangement of orbits that are 00:12:13.509 --> 00:12:19.269 well beyond Neptune that require some form of 00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:23.289 sculpting by an exterior agent. And we know that 00:12:23.289 --> 00:12:26.450 that exterior agent cannot be the galaxy. we 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:32.269 know it cannot be the ORD cloud. The place where 00:12:32.269 --> 00:12:35.649 you have to put the protuber is kind of in that 00:12:35.649 --> 00:12:39.429 intermediate part of real estate between the 00:12:39.429 --> 00:12:44.610 conventional solar system and what we call the 00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:47.830 ORD cloud, so the edge of the interstellar space. 00:12:50.129 --> 00:12:52.570 So yeah, it's an exciting time to be working 00:12:52.570 --> 00:12:57.019 on this stuff. We know the gravitational effects 00:12:57.019 --> 00:13:03.740 of the Earth cloud Oort cloud Yeah, we do because 00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:06.139 it's significantly I thought it was just like 00:13:06.139 --> 00:13:09.580 a mist or just kind of like Saturn's rings where 00:13:09.580 --> 00:13:13.620 it was like a bunch of rocks But it has a cohesive 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:17.899 effect Do we does it have more of a pull and 00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:20.820 certain parts of it and less than others based 00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:25.210 on the mass? What am I asking? Yeah. Yeah, so 00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:29.009 the Oort cloud in total is about is a sort of 00:13:29.009 --> 00:13:32.950 a few Earth masses Okay, so it's not it is composed 00:13:32.950 --> 00:13:38.649 of You know comments basically But cumulatively 00:13:38.649 --> 00:13:42.769 it's not as negligible as Saturn's rings like 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:46.820 Saturn's rings don't have any mass The only reason 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:49.240 they look cool is because they're reflective 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:53.240 and they really don't weigh very much. So we 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.539 do know the gravitational effect of the Oort 00:13:56.539 --> 00:14:02.539 cloud and it turns out to be pretty negligent. 00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:06.700 And that's why you need something else. You can 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:10.480 compute what the Oort cloud cumulatively will 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.669 do. and it would sort of change outer solar system 00:14:13.669 --> 00:14:17.149 orbits on time scale of like 10 billion years. 00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:19.929 So something comparable to the age of the universe. 00:14:20.389 --> 00:14:22.269 But the solar system is only five billion years 00:14:22.269 --> 00:14:28.090 old. So even at best, the world cloud just does 00:14:28.090 --> 00:14:32.429 not compete. And that's why there has to be this 00:14:32.429 --> 00:14:36.450 other thing. And the word cloud, I think, is 00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:40.289 It kind of throws you off makes you think it's 00:14:40.289 --> 00:14:43.669 like yeah, and usually astrophysics is so good 00:14:43.669 --> 00:14:51.309 about getting the name so spot -on It's a halo 00:14:51.309 --> 00:14:56.230 of Debris or planetesimals or comets, right? 00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:00.710 How cool that's so awesome like The fact that 00:15:00.710 --> 00:15:03.769 this is your job is it's so spectacular or part 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:06.980 of your job. I guess. Yeah. Yeah I mean, I still 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:13.840 kind of get surprised that I get paid. It was 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.139 kind of one of these things where I feel really 00:15:17.139 --> 00:15:21.940 fortunate in a multifaceted sense of working 00:15:21.940 --> 00:15:27.720 on things I love and being able to do that and 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.220 kind of survive. That's the dream, right? Yeah, 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.600 hey, I get that. That's how I feel every day. 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.440 I'm like, haha, I'd have done this for free. 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:42.779 Yeah, interesting. Did you want, is this what 00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:44.679 you wanted to do as a child? What did you want 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:49.080 to be as a child? Oh, as a child, I was pretty 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:53.100 sure that I was going to be a particle accelerator 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:57.480 physicist. Like dad. Yeah, that sounds kind of 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:01.580 specific. But part of the reason for that is 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:05.519 the kid. you know we like I grew up on campus 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:10.340 of a facility with a particle accelerator and 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:12.860 I think you know it's one of these things where 00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:16.820 you kind of um you you do the thing that or at 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:18.860 least as a kid you think you want to do the thing 00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:22.360 that you are exposed to and because there was 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.960 a particle accelerator a lot of people I knew 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.259 were physicists or kids of physicists I was like, 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.960 well, I guess that's kind of like what you have 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.179 to become when you grow up. And then I later 00:16:35.179 --> 00:16:37.860 realized that you don't have to become a particle 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:40.860 accelerator physicist. And in fact, that's kind 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:45.379 of a niche thing. And so the thing that I was 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.429 going to do is be a professional musician. and 00:16:48.429 --> 00:16:50.669 our band is going to become the next Metallica. 00:16:50.730 --> 00:16:54.889 And I think we're about three or four shows away 00:16:54.889 --> 00:16:57.309 from that happening right now. I feel it, yeah. 00:16:57.470 --> 00:17:01.710 I feel it. I've heard it and I feel it. I'm right 00:17:01.710 --> 00:17:04.089 there with you. That's right. It was supposed 00:17:04.089 --> 00:17:14.230 to be dethroned. Poor Planet Nine. It will have 00:17:14.230 --> 00:17:20.240 to wait just a little longer. Yeah. Oh, particle 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:27.519 exfoliator. Yeah. You know, I run into people 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:34.079 when we talk about fusion. People talk about, 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.160 oh, you know, they ask what type of fusion and 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.740 whether we are what we're going after. And what 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:44.660 they're really asking is Are we using fusion 00:17:44.660 --> 00:17:47.440 for electricity? Are we using it for heat? Are 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.099 we using it for like material development? So 00:17:51.099 --> 00:17:56.559 it took me a while to kind of build that bridge 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.640 between particle accelerators and fusion and 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.539 material development. But I feel like you built 00:18:02.539 --> 00:18:06.299 that bridge like decades ago. Like, can you help 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:11.299 us? with how fusion and particle accelerators 00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:14.440 and new material or isotope development, like 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:18.380 how it comes together? Yeah, so there's really 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:24.200 a multitude of ways, but the first two that come 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:28.539 to mind immediately. So let's talk first about 00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:35.079 production of lithium, right? Like lithium -7 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:40.720 is a good way to make tritium, right? You irradiate 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.900 lithium -7 with a high -intensity beam of protons, 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:58.279 and then it decays into helium and tritium. And 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:03.240 so that, for a long time, was kind of viewed 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:09.799 as as the most viable mechanism to source tritium. 00:19:10.180 --> 00:19:16.000 And it's still very much up in the community. 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.859 That's still something that is consistently discussed. 00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:26.859 And fusion aside, when it comes to fission, the 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:31.420 byproduct of nuclear fission can be made also 00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:37.880 less radioactive. by irradiating them with a 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.740 high -intensity beam of charged particles. And 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:44.420 that's because you basically peel off the isotopes 00:19:44.420 --> 00:19:48.799 of, I would say, uranium that are still radioactive. 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.920 And so those systems are called ADS, system accelerator 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.940 -driven systems. Now, there's also a distinct 00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:01.980 approach to fusion, right, which actually uses 00:20:03.629 --> 00:20:09.190 particle beams to collide them and drive fusion 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:13.109 that way. So rather than, you know, doing like 00:20:13.109 --> 00:20:15.970 the usual thing in a tokamak where you just crank 00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:18.450 up the temperature to the point where you try 00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:24.049 to, you know, have tritium and deuterium, say, 00:20:24.829 --> 00:20:28.009 or, you know, helium -3 or helium -3 come in 00:20:28.009 --> 00:20:32.220 and just cross the kind of... you cool a barrier 00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:34.859 and combine just because the temperature is so 00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:38.579 high. The accelerator German diffusion is distinct 00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:42.380 in that you first accelerate the particles or 00:20:42.380 --> 00:20:44.839 whatever particles that you want. I mean, typically 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:49.039 it's heavy ions. And then have those collide 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.819 at a fast enough energy. So it's just a different 00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:55.900 approach. But yeah, the two things have, the 00:20:55.900 --> 00:21:00.039 two kind of fields. development right both the 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.640 accelerator science and and just plasma physics 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.900 in general of course which is so critically relevant 00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:10.640 for fusion have always gone hand -in -hand and 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.700 they've always kind of developed together so 00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:15.039 there's a lot of cross -pollination between the 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:19.390 two ideas yeah That's fascinating. I remember 00:21:19.390 --> 00:21:25.430 the first time we met in person at Caltech, you 00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:30.910 explained muons to me and how you could produce 00:21:30.910 --> 00:21:33.970 those in particle accelerators and somehow put 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:39.750 them into a tokamak to make fusion better. I 00:21:39.750 --> 00:21:43.089 would love another explanation of that one because 00:21:43.089 --> 00:21:46.549 I kind of found it fascinating. But I never forgot 00:21:46.549 --> 00:21:49.309 that conversation, just the possibility of how 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:54.390 that could make for a more compact reactor. Tell 00:21:54.390 --> 00:21:58.589 us about that, Konstantin. Yeah. Okay. So it's 00:21:58.589 --> 00:22:02.609 actually, it's a genuinely fascinating thing, 00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:08.029 which also historically links up to, you know, 00:22:08.250 --> 00:22:10.430 cold fusion, right? Like during the 80s, there 00:22:10.430 --> 00:22:15.420 was a... There was a moment of excitement about 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.519 cold fusion, which turned out totally to be kind 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.299 of a red herring. It was totally fake. But what's 00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:25.240 interesting is that the words cold fusion actually 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:28.539 originate from a 1956 New York Times article 00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:34.740 exactly talking about not the 80s things, but 00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:38.799 the muon catalyzed nuclear fusion. So first, 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:43.839 what is a muon? Well, muon is a is a negatively 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:48.559 charged lepton, which is a type of particle with 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:53.079 a mass about 200 times that of an electron. So 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.900 you can really, you can think of it just as a 00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:02.779 very, very heavy electron, okay? And the unfortunate 00:23:02.779 --> 00:23:07.599 thing about muons is that they last about 2 .2 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.420 microseconds because, and after a while, after 00:23:11.420 --> 00:23:13.960 a while, meaning after 2 .2 microseconds, they 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:17.440 decay into a neutrino, which is a different type 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:23.079 of particle, and a conventional electron. But 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:27.279 while it lasts, like during its lifespan, what 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.859 the muon can do is it can replace one of the 00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:34.180 electrons in the hydrogen molecule, okay? And 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:37.960 that allows the two nuclei to draw far closer 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:42.839 than the normal covalent bond, okay? And because 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:48.220 of that, the probability of just regular deuterium 00:23:48.220 --> 00:23:52.920 -terium fusion increases by a ton. And then after 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.079 a fusion reaction occurs, like the muon that 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.920 is responsible for catalyzing that reaction is 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:04.599 in principle free to catalyze other events until 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:09.130 it decays. or is somehow, you know, removed. 00:24:09.509 --> 00:24:13.890 So it's, it's really, really cool. And gosh, 00:24:14.150 --> 00:24:17.670 if it, if it worked better, we would have had 00:24:17.670 --> 00:24:20.789 fusion, you know, that fusion reactors properly 00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:25.390 in the fifties. Now the reason there's a problem 00:24:25.390 --> 00:24:30.549 with this approach is that, well, the muon doesn't 00:24:30.549 --> 00:24:34.849 last very long. Okay. So it only has two microseconds 00:24:34.849 --> 00:24:38.609 before it goes away. And the other problem is 00:24:38.609 --> 00:24:41.470 that it sticks to alpha particles, which are 00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:46.410 the helium nuclei. And so if you can somehow 00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:51.029 solve the time scale and the sticking problem, 00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:54.529 then you're in business. But indeed, muons are 00:24:54.529 --> 00:25:00.349 readily generated by particle accelerators. I 00:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.750 mean, muons are actually even generated in the 00:25:03.750 --> 00:25:06.730 atmosphere. So the cosmic rays, which are just 00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:11.289 charged particles that fly around in space as 00:25:11.289 --> 00:25:14.710 they impact our atmosphere, they create a shower 00:25:14.710 --> 00:25:19.410 of particles and one of the things that comes 00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:22.369 out is muon. So I still think it's one of the 00:25:22.369 --> 00:25:27.589 coolest things ever because it puts fusion just 00:25:27.589 --> 00:25:31.269 barely, it's just a little bit out of reach. 00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:38.670 I wish there was a simple solution. Interesting. 00:25:38.869 --> 00:25:44.769 Maybe there's a complicated solution. So it looks 00:25:44.769 --> 00:25:48.710 like maybe 30 years down the line, there will 00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:53.809 be a possibility of cold fusion generators, but 00:25:53.809 --> 00:25:57.690 it would be some combination of the muon, some 00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:01.849 combination of a laser plasma heating system. 00:26:02.190 --> 00:26:07.710 a lot of lot and a lot a lot of material material 00:26:07.710 --> 00:26:12.089 innovations in terms of like superconductors 00:26:12.089 --> 00:26:16.470 and Room temperature superconductors things like 00:26:16.470 --> 00:26:21.730 that Yeah, it said it'll be it's all I think 00:26:21.730 --> 00:26:24.430 about what do you say two to three decades away? 00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:31.950 I Mean the way things are going I'm more optimistic 00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:36.930 than that, right? I mean, I think that, well, 00:26:37.049 --> 00:26:39.750 I mean, material science generally right now 00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:44.990 is kind of having a moment. And so I'm, I mean, 00:26:44.990 --> 00:26:46.890 of course it's hard to predict the future. It's 00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:50.650 easier to predict the past. But yeah, I'm kind 00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:56.109 of optimistic given the explosion of both kind 00:26:56.109 --> 00:26:59.589 of theoretical work that's been done. in the 00:26:59.589 --> 00:27:05.029 last decade and a half kind of predicting different 00:27:05.029 --> 00:27:09.069 phases, what kind of materials are in principle 00:27:09.069 --> 00:27:13.130 possible. And that stuff is starting to get experimentally 00:27:13.130 --> 00:27:19.170 tested and there's a huge, huge amount of research 00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:23.920 being done in that realm. So I'm... I have to 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.940 say, I hope it doesn't take two to three decades. 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:30.359 I think it'll be faster than that. And I don't 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:34.759 know how the muon thing will play out, but surely 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:44.400 the superconducting -like magnets, things that 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.400 can produce huge fields on the order of 10 Pesla 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.460 or whatever, that's going to be a prerequisite. 00:27:52.589 --> 00:28:00.809 for regular tokamak devices. And so in that regard, 00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:04.130 there's been progress left and right in the last 00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:06.910 decade. So I'm very, very optimistic about that. 00:28:07.670 --> 00:28:14.009 Yeah. Yet another kind of convergence field between 00:28:14.009 --> 00:28:18.890 particle accelerators and fusion energy, or the 00:28:18.890 --> 00:28:22.759 superconducting magnets. Yeah. It's it's it's 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:25.359 awesome. Yeah, it's it's the convergence of all 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.420 of those and and of course AI and material development 00:28:28.420 --> 00:28:31.220 with quantum computing and AI That's gonna be 00:28:31.220 --> 00:28:35.700 huge. I think in this regard right AI is going 00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:41.240 to play a critically important role if anything 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.359 for its ability to think In more than you know 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.819 four dimensions like human beings just naturally 00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:54.299 don't have the capacity to think in greater than 00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:58.720 40. I mean, I have a hard time thinking in like 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:03.900 2D. I usually think in just one dimension. But 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:06.859 the fact that artificial intelligence is not 00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:11.539 limited in this way means that from a fundamental 00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:16.680 perspective, it can kind of... it can keep track 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:20.240 of plasma instabilities potentially far better 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:25.680 than we can. And so I think that there's kind 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:35.539 of an untapped future in this regard where AI 00:29:35.539 --> 00:29:40.960 systems will be able to machine learn the various 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.420 instabilities and potentially suppress them. 00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:48.990 human minds cannot do. And so that's another 00:29:48.990 --> 00:29:52.569 realm where I think the kind of convergence and 00:29:52.569 --> 00:29:55.109 the cross -pollination of those fields is going 00:29:55.109 --> 00:29:58.890 to be critical for progress. Yeah, for sure. 00:30:02.049 --> 00:30:08.410 We've been thinking out our AI system within 00:30:08.410 --> 00:30:14.079 all of this and we think about how the fusion 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.079 energy generation aspect of it and those simulations 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.700 itself, yeah, there's quite a bit we can do with 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:22.460 AI with self -healing walls with nanotechnology 00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:26.420 and plasma and mitigation and all of that. But 00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:28.579 then we think about all of the things you can 00:30:28.579 --> 00:30:32.200 do with AI in terms of like marketing and sales 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:35.640 and financial reporting and all of that to keep 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.920 things accurate. And so it's pretty exciting 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.079 because there's a larger convergence there as 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:43.630 well. Because when you look at your end -to -end 00:30:43.630 --> 00:30:46.509 system of even customer management or like when 00:30:46.509 --> 00:30:48.970 you look at order of like any commercial product 00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:51.470 not just you know something that we're doing 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:57.289 but like It's it's pretty cool. It's It's Kind 00:30:57.289 --> 00:31:01.609 of wild that all of this stuff is happening right 00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:07.049 now like it's it's kind of it feels like Yeah, 00:31:07.069 --> 00:31:10.809 it feels like a really kind of monumental time 00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:14.299 in history. I always wondered what it was like 00:31:14.299 --> 00:31:17.859 in the early 1900s when quantum mechanics was 00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:20.940 getting discovered and how cool it would have 00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:24.960 been to witness that and to be involved in that, 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:28.819 to be a part of that revolution. But I think 00:31:28.819 --> 00:31:32.660 right now we're part of a somewhat different 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:38.940 revolution, but it's equally cool. It didn't 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:44.359 have to be but it's an interesting time to be 00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:48.119 alive. Hey, I'm just I'm grateful. I don't question 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.859 it. I just say thank you. I you know the thing 00:31:51.859 --> 00:31:54.920 about that you said multidimensional calculations 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:58.819 and quantum so that kind of brings about like 00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:02.079 doing multidimensional calculations for simulations 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.470 using quantum computing. And the convergence 00:32:05.470 --> 00:32:08.269 of the hardware and the software of that, meaning 00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:11.750 the quantum computing coming together with the 00:32:11.750 --> 00:32:15.690 AI to build these like robust, like digital twin 00:32:15.690 --> 00:32:19.069 simulations and prototypes and the possibilities 00:32:19.069 --> 00:32:22.210 of those in every field, especially ours, but 00:32:22.210 --> 00:32:26.529 in every field. That's that's like mind blowing 00:32:26.529 --> 00:32:30.029 to me, but I've never kind of like understood 00:32:30.029 --> 00:32:36.410 the actual bridge of Why a quantum computer allows 00:32:36.410 --> 00:32:40.410 you to do this multidimensional calculation like 00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:46.009 far better than, you know, shall we say, conventional 00:32:46.009 --> 00:32:49.890 computing? Yeah, I didn't want to be offensive 00:32:49.890 --> 00:32:54.529 conventional supercomputing. Yeah. Well, yeah, 00:32:54.609 --> 00:32:58.769 help us help us understand that that multidimensionality 00:32:58.769 --> 00:33:03.599 of quantum computing. and how that yeah and i'll 00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.000 be honest i'm not at all an expert in quantum 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.640 computing right there are tasks right the tasks 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.019 for which quantum computers fundamentally right 00:33:14.019 --> 00:33:16.619 because they don't like a classical computer 00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:21.180 thinks in terms of you know bits right the flipping 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:25.079 of zero one and and a quantum computer thinks 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:27.779 in terms of cubits which are which are states 00:33:28.490 --> 00:33:31.549 So fundamentally, they work in a little bit of 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:35.250 a different way. The principle, by the way, has 00:33:35.250 --> 00:33:38.410 been around for a long, long time. I mean, Feynman 00:33:38.410 --> 00:33:42.369 wrote about quantum computing, and he died, I 00:33:42.369 --> 00:33:45.329 don't remember exactly what year he died, but 00:33:45.329 --> 00:33:48.309 he died in the early 80s. So I think the principle 00:33:48.309 --> 00:33:52.609 has been with us for quite some time, but the 00:33:52.609 --> 00:33:57.269 reason, and to be clear, the quantum computer, 00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.960 is not necessarily something that you would use 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:05.640 in like your calculator, right? A regular classical 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.340 computer is just fine as a calculator, but there's 00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:13.119 certain tasks for which the quantum computer 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.739 works better. Now for a long time it was an issue 00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:22.199 of like just building one, right? Like getting 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:27.000 one to, getting your computing system to be stable. 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:31.539 and not, like, interacting with the walls, for 00:34:31.539 --> 00:34:33.420 example, because, you know, quantum mechanics 00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:38.960 is a beautiful and tricky thing, right? Things 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.420 are not... There are no trajectories, there are 00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:45.039 no particles, so to speak, there are wave functions 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.039 which will tend to couple to walls, and that's 00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:52.219 been a problem for some time. But, you know, 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.820 again, right now... Like with a lot of other 00:34:55.820 --> 00:34:58.300 things, we're living through an interesting kind 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:03.059 of intersection point where that's becoming much 00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:06.559 more of a reality. Yeah. How does it go from 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.800 like this theoretical world of like Feynman talking 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:14.019 about these quantum states and how that exists 00:35:14.019 --> 00:35:18.760 in the universe? And and how did we turn that 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:24.050 into a computing? technology you know like that 00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:28.429 bridge of it it it's yeah I it's mind -boggling 00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:32.469 to me how it goes from Einstein hypothesizing 00:35:32.469 --> 00:35:35.010 it and that's your field you know like you guys 00:35:35.010 --> 00:35:37.530 are I don't know how you guys do it like that's 00:35:37.530 --> 00:35:42.449 that's amazing well I appreciate it and I'm no 00:35:42.449 --> 00:35:46.329 fine man and you know to you know and I think 00:35:46.329 --> 00:35:49.929 nobody nobody is he was a it was one of the kind 00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:55.510 of unique minds of the 20th century. And that 00:35:55.510 --> 00:36:03.190 said, you know, there are numerous examples of 00:36:03.190 --> 00:36:07.070 times in science where you kind of know that 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:11.150 stuff is going to work, but it's just the technology 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:14.309 is not there yet to make it work. I mean, a good 00:36:14.309 --> 00:36:18.599 example is you know, in signal processing, for 00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.860 example, right? Like a Fourier transform is something 00:36:21.860 --> 00:36:27.139 that you do routinely. And there's a method to 00:36:27.139 --> 00:36:29.940 computing discrete Fourier transforms called 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:34.639 fast Fourier transforms. And fast Fourier transforms 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.300 were already invented by Gauss in like the 1800s. 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:42.440 And he was frustrated by the fact that computers 00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:47.000 were not there to perform them. I mean, this 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:50.159 is kind of along the lines of what you're talking 00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:52.900 about, right? You realize that the principle 00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:55.840 is there and just the computational power is 00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.260 on there. Gauss, by the way, was also the first 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:05.679 person to conduct a true simulation of planetary 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.599 motion, full scale, all the planets interacting 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.639 with each other, which is not a problem that 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.119 you can solve on a piece of paper. Right. And 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.480 he realized that you would have to discretize 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:21.360 that problem and solve it via simulation. And 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.280 the way he did it is he got a bunch of friends 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:27.980 and like the people were the computers and they 00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:30.659 would pass pieces of paper around and propagate 00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:34.619 errors and do this stuff. And it worked. The 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.519 only problem was that it worked slower than real 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.539 time. You were better off just sitting back and 00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:44.480 watching the planets orbiting the sun. But still, 00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:51.119 like That was a legit numerical simulation. It 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:55.880 was running on very slow processors, otherwise 00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.619 known as the human brain. How far we've come. 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:03.780 We've recently had conversations about having 00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:07.719 sensors and transmitters put into fusion energy 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:11.019 generators that have to withstand an immense 00:38:11.019 --> 00:38:14.929 amount of heat. and also be able to communicate 00:38:14.929 --> 00:38:17.889 with the quantum computer and have like high 00:38:17.889 --> 00:38:20.650 speeds. And so it's a challenging task. It's 00:38:20.650 --> 00:38:26.429 a challenging material, physics, and yeah, it's 00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:29.449 a, yeah, it's a challenging task. It's a, it's 00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:32.909 a tall order. We'll see. Yeah, but why, yeah, 00:38:32.949 --> 00:38:36.210 if it, if it wasn't, right? Like, if it wasn't, 00:38:36.269 --> 00:38:38.050 it wouldn't be fun and also it wouldn't have 00:38:38.050 --> 00:38:46.610 been done already. That's true. Yeah, sorry, 00:38:47.449 --> 00:38:52.590 I'm vehemently agreeing with you here Very cool. 00:38:52.969 --> 00:38:57.090 Yeah, but the fact that it What do you say about 00:38:57.090 --> 00:39:02.170 a hundred year gap between when? quantum quantum 00:39:02.170 --> 00:39:06.050 states or quantum physics came to be to when 00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:11.369 we can use a quantum computer and Tune the neural 00:39:11.369 --> 00:39:14.940 network such that we can process in high enough 00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:19.679 speeds to control a plasma in a tiny sun on earth. 00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:26.679 Like that roadmap is chock full of amazing scientists. 00:39:27.579 --> 00:39:31.000 Yeah. Yeah. It's about a hundred year gap, which 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:32.860 is kind of, actually, I hadn't quite, I mean, 00:39:32.900 --> 00:39:35.900 a little bit more. I think we're now kind of 00:39:35.900 --> 00:39:41.019 past the first formulations, of course, of certainly 00:39:41.019 --> 00:39:43.869 we're past the 100 year mark for the formulation 00:39:43.869 --> 00:39:48.130 of what's called the old quantum theory. But 00:39:48.130 --> 00:39:52.829 yeah, I never, it's actually, it would be an 00:39:52.829 --> 00:39:57.289 interesting exercise to, you know, really take 00:39:57.289 --> 00:40:00.949 every invention and measure what's the time scale 00:40:00.949 --> 00:40:04.469 in between the conceptualization of it being 00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:08.250 possible and not. I would say the radio was a 00:40:08.250 --> 00:40:16.230 little shorter. The radio was invented by something 00:40:16.230 --> 00:40:21.809 like early 1900s, right? And Maxwell's equations 00:40:21.809 --> 00:40:25.690 were fully understood by Maxwell in the 1860s. 00:40:25.690 --> 00:40:28.469 So there was kind of a shorter than a century 00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:34.489 time to go in between, but surely the order of 00:40:34.489 --> 00:40:39.130 magnitude is correct. So yeah, that's it. Yeah, 00:40:39.170 --> 00:40:42.650 I never quite thought about that time span in 00:40:42.650 --> 00:40:45.869 between original theory and then what you could 00:40:45.869 --> 00:40:51.070 do with it. Yeah, some some harder than others, 00:40:51.070 --> 00:40:57.769 I suppose. What do you see now that that's probably 00:40:57.769 --> 00:41:01.489 in like a very raw theoretical stage that has 00:41:01.489 --> 00:41:06.760 like just world changing or maybe solar system 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.960 changing implications in the next century. What 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:13.460 do you think? Well, so yeah, as you know, there's 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:18.519 a, okay, good question. So I have a former student 00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:24.599 named Walker Melton who did his undergraduate 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:28.099 thesis with me at Caltech on kind of analogies 00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:31.119 between quantum mechanics and the propagation 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.210 of waves in self gravitating disks. And then 00:41:35.210 --> 00:41:39.670 he went on to Harvard and he now works on stuff 00:41:39.670 --> 00:41:44.610 that I frankly don't understand at all. Like 00:41:44.610 --> 00:41:47.949 I was trying to read a couple of his papers a 00:41:47.949 --> 00:41:51.570 month ago and I couldn't understand any of the 00:41:51.570 --> 00:41:56.309 sentences. Right, and it sort of felt like kind 00:41:56.309 --> 00:41:58.730 of a gorilla that's been handed like a wrench. 00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:02.179 Where I'm like, okay, I know this does something. 00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:05.659 What is it? Like warp, warp, like a wormhole 00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:07.920 or something? Like what are we doing? Like we're 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:11.820 warping time? The paper was about the amplitude 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:17.820 of the celestial leap. I have no idea or like 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:20.159 computing the amplitudes of celestial leap. So 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:23.239 I have no idea what that means. What's a celestial 00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:26.219 leap? Is that like what happened in the Interstellar 00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:30.980 movie? No, no, it has nothing to do, as far as 00:42:30.980 --> 00:42:34.579 I can tell, it has nothing to do with celestial 00:42:34.579 --> 00:42:38.880 mechanics. Every time I talk to Walker about 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.480 it, he said, well, just consider it gravity in 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:45.880 a box. And I was like, yeah. You know, again, 00:42:46.219 --> 00:42:47.780 like, what do you mean, like, gravity takes a 00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:49.739 pull inside a box? He's like, no, like, take 00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:52.420 gravity, the theory of gravity, and put it into 00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:56.300 a box. And that's kind of where my understanding 00:42:56.300 --> 00:43:00.230 stops. But I do wonder. I mean, I'm sure that 00:43:00.230 --> 00:43:05.230 there were people 100 years ago who saw quantum 00:43:05.230 --> 00:43:12.090 mechanics as some weird thing that's equally 00:43:12.090 --> 00:43:15.010 impenetrable as the celestial leaf amplitude 00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:19.250 is to me. And so, yeah, there's a lot of development 00:43:19.250 --> 00:43:23.050 like that that's happening right now that I'm... 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:25.519 kind of not involved in, because ultimately, 00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:28.760 just from my own preference, I like, there's 00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.500 certain branches of physics that I like. I enjoy 00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:37.219 things being, maybe I don't want to say practical, 00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:42.860 but you know, I enjoy being able to imagine what 00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:44.659 actually is happening, you know what I mean? 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.280 Yeah. And so like, there's an applied aspect 00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:52.739 to to kind of solicit mechanics and orbital dynamics 00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:59.639 and plasma physics, there's a joy in kind of 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:05.340 being able to imagine its direct effects. So 00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:08.780 to that said, I'm probably locked out of some 00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:13.860 of the things that will be a century from now 00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:18.949 making revolutionary technological strides. The 00:44:18.949 --> 00:44:22.210 Celestial Leaf might be part of it, I just don't 00:44:22.210 --> 00:44:27.469 know. Interesting, yeah, wow. I googled the Celestial 00:44:27.469 --> 00:44:31.630 Leaf and I couldn't find an explanation. A friend 00:44:31.630 --> 00:44:37.409 of mine sent me a link to a Steam community post 00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:42.349 about how there's some video game where if you 00:44:42.349 --> 00:44:45.210 get stuck on the Celestial Leaf, you have to 00:44:45.210 --> 00:44:48.610 have the Celestial Leaf blower. And that's about 00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:52.530 the explanation, like, the extent of the explanation 00:44:52.530 --> 00:44:54.570 that I... No, I was... You know what I was about 00:44:54.570 --> 00:44:56.889 to say? I was about to say I feel like I have 00:44:56.889 --> 00:45:00.710 seen gravity being turned off and on in, like, 00:45:00.730 --> 00:45:04.050 a superhero movie. I can't put my finger on which 00:45:04.050 --> 00:45:07.030 one, but I feel like I've seen that conceptually 00:45:07.030 --> 00:45:10.190 in, like... It's got to be, like, some sort of 00:45:10.190 --> 00:45:14.280 sci -fi stuff. Maybe Futurama, because... That's 00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.940 my favorite show on the planet. So maybe it was 00:45:16.940 --> 00:45:21.840 there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Yeah, it 00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:25.719 might have been. You've watched Futurama. You 00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:28.400 like Futurama, Konstantin? Of course, of course. 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.039 I mean, it's been a moment since then, but like, 00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.840 yeah. Gosh, it's like in college, this was kind 00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:40.679 of a staple for it. At Caltech, really? Yeah, 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:44.719 one of my favorite moments in that it was when 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:51.019 the robot goes to sleep in the closet. Sleeping 00:45:51.019 --> 00:45:54.000 and just kind of sleep talking is like destroy 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.019 all humanity, destroy all humanity. And then 00:45:56.019 --> 00:45:58.539 he gets woken up and he's like, oh, sorry, I 00:45:58.539 --> 00:46:03.300 was just having a wonderful dream. I love it. 00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:06.219 Yeah, no, I love that show. I love it so much. 00:46:07.909 --> 00:46:11.369 Yeah, downright my favorite. Watching it in Caltech, 00:46:11.489 --> 00:46:15.929 but in a way, that's almost super cool. I've 00:46:15.929 --> 00:46:19.869 seen garbage being incinerated in that one. That 00:46:19.869 --> 00:46:22.030 one always fascinates me because I feel like 00:46:22.030 --> 00:46:24.869 I can build a fusion energy generator that would 00:46:24.869 --> 00:46:27.750 produce so much heat that it would just incinerate 00:46:27.750 --> 00:46:30.650 just about every garbage and with nothing left, 00:46:30.809 --> 00:46:36.849 not even smoke. I get some ideas from Futurama 00:46:36.849 --> 00:46:44.750 every now and then. But the thing I did want 00:46:44.750 --> 00:46:46.250 to ask you about sometime, I've been thinking 00:46:46.250 --> 00:46:49.570 about this for a while, when I talk to people 00:46:49.570 --> 00:46:53.050 about magnetic fields and creating magnetic fields 00:46:53.050 --> 00:46:56.389 to confine plasma, but then you think about like, 00:46:56.489 --> 00:46:59.429 you take that up to like 150 Tesla, I don't know 00:46:59.429 --> 00:47:01.679 the number, I'm just making this one up. Like, 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.599 if you take it to 150 Tesla or something, is 00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.800 that the Einstein -Rosen bridge? Is that where 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:11.360 you get into the possibilities of being able 00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:16.380 to bend? I don't know what I'm asking here, but 00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:21.139 it's more for scale. Right. Yeah. 150 Tesla. 00:47:21.739 --> 00:47:28.349 OK. It is. you know, about a million gals, which 00:47:28.349 --> 00:47:31.769 is the typical magnetic field of like a white 00:47:31.769 --> 00:47:38.409 dwarf star. So such fields are not, yeah, they're 00:47:38.409 --> 00:47:42.530 not, you know, out of this world, so to speak. 00:47:42.650 --> 00:47:45.530 Like they happen all the time in astrophysics 00:47:45.530 --> 00:47:50.030 and there's nothing scary. Nothing, nothing scary 00:47:50.030 --> 00:47:54.070 happens when you reach those, like you can elevate 00:47:54.070 --> 00:47:57.110 a frog. pretty well with the strong magnetic 00:47:57.110 --> 00:47:59.829 field, but that's about, you know, that's about 00:47:59.829 --> 00:48:03.210 the concept. So yeah, there's nothing horrific. 00:48:04.449 --> 00:48:06.309 But these are all things that are a long way 00:48:06.309 --> 00:48:11.670 away. And I think, yeah, and I think a lot of 00:48:11.670 --> 00:48:16.570 our work now is quite grounded in reality in 00:48:16.570 --> 00:48:23.380 the next 10 years, I suppose. Yes, yes. What 00:48:23.380 --> 00:48:26.820 are you working on like now other than the planet 00:48:26.820 --> 00:48:32.619 X Constantine? Well You know, I've got I'm excited 00:48:32.619 --> 00:48:36.139 about fusion. I'm excited about AI a bit of an 00:48:36.139 --> 00:48:42.679 AI startup going I'm also right now I'm involved 00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.840 in a in a really cool calculation to constrain 00:48:47.230 --> 00:48:51.590 and understands the primordial radius of Jupiter, 00:48:51.909 --> 00:48:54.230 the primordial magnetic field and the primordial 00:48:54.230 --> 00:48:58.989 accretion rate. So around Jupiter, there are 00:48:58.989 --> 00:49:03.530 the satellites that are famed Galilean satellites, 00:49:04.590 --> 00:49:09.769 like Io, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto. But interior 00:49:09.769 --> 00:49:12.469 to Io, there are these tiny satellites that are 00:49:12.469 --> 00:49:15.130 just like nobody cares about, they're called 00:49:15.130 --> 00:49:21.940 the Amalthea group. What I found is that by carefully 00:49:21.940 --> 00:49:26.960 studying the dynamical footprint, the orbital 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:31.559 dynamics interactions between the Galilean satellites 00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:38.539 and the small satellites, you can deduce many 00:49:38.539 --> 00:49:42.659 of the properties of Jupiter four and a half 00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:46.639 billion years ago. And you can do this calculation 00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:48.800 actually kind of on a piece of paper, which is 00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:53.000 pretty remarkable. And so the upshot of all of 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.599 this is that when the solar nebula dissipated, 00:49:56.739 --> 00:50:01.800 so like when the gaseous cloud got evaporated 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:04.619 from around the sun, Jupiter was twice as big 00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:11.079 as it is now and had a magnetic field of about 00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:17.659 200 gauss. Also, this is 0 .02 Tesla. Nothing 00:50:17.659 --> 00:50:21.159 like what we like to talk about. Chronos, of 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.440 course, but this is bigger than what it is now 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:29.420 for Jupiter, which is about 10. And it was a 00:50:29.420 --> 00:50:32.760 creating material, like a creating an atmosphere 00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:35.920 at a rate of about a Jupiter mass per million 00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.699 years. So this is just a cute calculation. I'm 00:50:39.699 --> 00:50:41.800 really excited about it now. It just got accepted 00:50:41.800 --> 00:50:45.809 for publication. like a week ago. So that's the 00:50:45.809 --> 00:50:49.250 thing that I'm thinking about a lot. That's awesome. 00:50:50.309 --> 00:50:53.210 Yeah, it is kind of the paper. Yeah, I'd love 00:50:53.210 --> 00:50:56.170 to. Yeah, even if I understand like 2 % of it, 00:50:56.170 --> 00:51:01.730 I'd love to read it. That's amazing. That's amazing. 00:51:02.449 --> 00:51:05.369 And then with the when does this telescope come 00:51:05.369 --> 00:51:08.389 online next year then the new one? So I think 00:51:08.389 --> 00:51:13.880 it's supposed to start operation. maybe in the 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:18.159 winter of 2025, but science operations begin 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.940 in the summer of 2025. So it's going to be a 00:51:21.940 --> 00:51:27.000 pretty cool, you know, pretty busy time. Yeah, 00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.559 yeah. Exciting times. Exciting times. Exciting 00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:33.480 times for Fusion 2 next year. Absolutely. Yeah, 00:51:33.699 --> 00:51:40.230 big timelines. That's awesome. This was great. 00:51:40.289 --> 00:51:42.289 Thank you so much for doing this, Constantine. 00:51:43.309 --> 00:51:45.050 Thank you so much, Priyanka. I really appreciate 00:51:45.050 --> 00:51:45.289 it.