This is Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast.
I'm your host, Molly Sarawatari. We are committed
to incorporating discussions on climate justice
and Indigenous knowledge in addressing the climate
crisis as we provide a call to action in every
episode. We are podcasting live from the Water
Conservation Garden in El Cajon. Usually, we
start each episode of the podcast with the land
acknowledgement from our campus, Cal State San
Marcos. Since there are 18 federally recognized
tribes in San Diego County, we'd like to acknowledge
all of the tribes, ancestors, and traditional
keepers of the land here at the Water Conservation
Garden. I invite us all to pause and recognize
that we gather today on the unceded territory
of the Kumeyaay Nation. Along with the Kumeyaay
people, I also honor the Lusenyo -Payukawichum,
Kuwea, and Kupenyo peoples, the first caretakers
of what we now call San Diego County. Today's
episode is focused on tribal resources and resilience.
We are here before a live audience at San Diego's
first ever Climate Week with Amanda Subish and
Ivan Sam, both keepers of traditional knowledge.
Amanda and Ivan, welcome and thank you for being
on the podcast today. Could you each introduce
yourselves, share a little bit about your background
and the communities you are a part of? Hello,
my name is Ivan Sam. I am involved with many
different programs, especially with Red Earth
Movement. Also, I've been a part of the Veterans
Call to Action for Standing Rock in the past.
Also, local tribal communities also have their
own programs and events that are in relation
to environmental justice as well. My name is
Amanda Suish. I'm from the Palma Band of Luceno
Indians. First and foremost, I'm a mother of
five. It's been pretty, what word am I looking
for? It's been pretty special this past week.
I've had my daughter along with me and we were
down at City Hall. She got to see the proclamation,
you know, and just seeing things in action. And
then I had her with us at the opening of Climate
Week. So she's seen like the whole advocacy side.
She's seen action happening. She's seeing it
all like from the struggles to things actually
happening. And then my I've had five years experience
doing like actual row crops with my tribe's farm.
And then most recently, earlier this year, I
joined Red Earth and we created it. a summer
program specifically targeting like our native
youth. And that was like a six -week session
we had did down at Coastal Roots. But then we
are also like around the surrounding reservations.
I think it's a total of six tribes that we've
worked with directly and then in talks with a
couple others. We're doing a lot of pretty amazing
work with Red Earth Movement. Yeah, definitely.
Could you both kind of explain a little bit to
our listeners? Because a lot of our listeners
come with little to no background with environmental
knowledge. What is the Red Earth Movement and
what exactly does that entail? Red Earth Movement
is a program that really focuses on the resiliency
of bringing back first occupiers, like ancestral
people's ways to, you know, grow food, utilizing
Red Earth oven. indigenous cuisine. We try to
teach our community how to grow food and how
to take care of the land to from seed to table
program, seed to spirit is what we kind of focus
on. Mainly allowing our participants and people
we work with to kind of get more involved and
conscious of what it takes to be a part of a
lot of these different programs, especially.
Getting to know indigenous master gardeners,
getting to know the program of seed to spirit
program, what does that really mean? How does
that connect with your spirituality? How does
that focus on your whole healthy living? I am
a traditional, more of a tribal engagement director
with a recovery program, which is important.
Nutrition is a very big part of recovery as well.
So most importantly, we try to focus on getting
our participants and people we work with within
Red Earth Movement to get more engaged in learning
about the old traditional ways, revitalizing
their community and their health. So if you guys,
like for those who need an actual word to look
up, who just don't understand like the way of
our practices are, you know, working with Mother
Earth and whatnot, you can look up the word biodynamics,
right? And that's basically like working with
Earth's natural rhythms. So if you need a word
to look up because you just don't understand
how we view things, how we work, how we tend
the land, that would be more of a word to look
up that ties in closer to our work. Amazing.
Thank you so much. Ivan, you did mention resilience
earlier. When we talk about resilience in the
context of climate and environment, what does
that word mean from your perspective and your
experience? Resiliency, most importantly, is
focused on our traditional indigenous ways that
have been taught to us by our ancestors. Most
importantly, it's all about survival. Our people
have been here for thousands of years. And we
look forward to many more generations to come
with our people, our traditional people, our
cultural people, the relatives that live here,
especially, you know, the Kumeyaay and their
relatives, the Luceño, Capeno that we mentioned
earlier. These are relatives that, you know,
have their own teachings and have their own ways
that have been going for thousands of years.
You know, biodiversity is one aspect that they
specialize in, you know. utilizing biodiversity
to manage the land. And then once that land management
is done, this is where we start learning how
to grow our foods and utilize a lot of those
minerals to help grow our food. But most importantly,
being the stewards and also not just taking care
of the land, but also the animals that live on
it. Having respect for our ways and putting offering
down every time we gather tobacco. Every time
we grow food, we put prayers down. We actually
talk to our plants, you know, just like people,
you know, nourishing and helping it grow and
just mindfully taking care of that process so
that we have a good harvest. That's amazing.
Thank you. Amanda, can you please share some
examples of traditional ecological knowledge
that have supported your communities in adapting
to environmental change over time? Yeah, so.
My mom's actually a traditional gatherer. She's
over there, right there. No, so it's interesting,
right? So you have climate change. But then,
gosh, we normally gather like October, right,
for our acorns and stuff. And it usually comes
from the first winds. But then we have to work
with the weather. But then last year, like we
got, I think our winds were a little bit crazy.
And then we didn't have, like our rains were
a little bit later. So it was just working with
the weather. And then. I think our first frost
last year came January, but ideally our frost
comes in October. Right. So what was it? I'm
going off on tangents. See, that's why I got
to read things. It's okay. Don't worry. What
was your question? So examples of traditional
ecological knowledge that have supported your
community in adapting to environmental change
over time. So, Shirley, you were on the right
path. Don't even worry. I go off on tangents.
Yes, that is my answer. Awesome. OK, so Ivan,
how does cultural storytelling, ceremony and
language teach the next generation to care for
land and water? Ceremony itself, you know, these
ways of life, when we look at it from an indigenous
perspective, it's a natural law. Everything that
happens naturally, you know, from the winter
solstice, summer solstice, you know, a lot of
these different changes in our. environment,
you know, it allows us to kind of focus and be
in tune with that process. And most importantly,
ceremony itself is what brings a lot of that
balance back together. Sometimes as people, you
know, we kind of lose track, we kind of lose
focus, and we kind of fall off certain path.
But as we focus on the natural environment, how
this universe works, the movement and the process
of winds changing. from the moon cycles to solstice,
you know, the direction where, you know, the
farthest the sun sets to the nearest, you know,
when the sun sets at the earliest, you know,
these are points where it teaches us how to live
within those climates, different changes in season,
you know, those are most importantly because
that's where a lot of times we bring a lot of
balance back into our life. If we lose focus,
you know, we kind of fall out of tune. And this
is where a lot of people get a lot of confusions
in their life. You know, we say that mentally,
you know, we have a lot of challenges in our
community or within our people because we're
not really in sync with the natural law. You
know, some people become nocturnal. They spend
a lot of time out in the dark, but yet they don't
realize how significant that sunlight is for
them, you know, to actually be out in the day.
Why are we supposed to be sleeping during nighttime?
You know, these are natural things that happen
to us. The more you're in sync with the natural
law, it's like the more you're in tune with Mother
Earth, the healthier you're going to be. You
know, those are the most important aspects. But
when it comes to culture as well, we learn through
those processes. You know, this is what resiliency
teaches us. You know, we hold on to those teachings
and we move forward. But most importantly, ceremony.
And storytelling and language itself, it teaches
us how to become that much stronger and move
forward with our future generation. Absolutely.
And it's definitely, I've noticed a shift in
culture, especially with younger populations
where they want to be almost nocturnal. They're
sleeping all day and doing Lord only knows what
during the night. There's a lot of like current
projects and initiatives for other environmental
resources here in San Diego. Amanda, could you
tell me about some current projects or initiatives
in the San Diego region that highlight tribal
leadership in conservation and climate resilience?
Well, I mean, I can't speak on behalf of other
tribes, but like I know like what Palma, what
they're doing, they're doing amazing work up
at the mountain right now. I think they're working
with NRCS, though, as well. But so. you you learn
like the trees right and then you have spacing
um but when you have incorrect spacing your plants
are stressing out right so obviously some trees
are getting taken out but then you have like
our bigger trees that are being more resilient
you know and those ones obviously provide more
oxygen those ones are bringing down the bad excess
carbon and stuff but there's like amazing things
happening up there and obviously like aesthetically
it looks beautiful but it's for a right cause
right that's amazing that's that work is truly
amazing it's hopefully it'll lead people who
are part of non -tribal organizations to follow
that same idea of like following with mother
earth and following the land to best with like
crop and to help with our environment going off
of that Ivan, how do tribes and non -tribal organizations,
government agencies, or local communities use
each other to strengthen resilience? What challenges
and opportunities come in those partnerships?
I think most importantly, for example, Red Earth
Movement, we advocate for holding on to these
resiliencies to teach non -natives, people that
don't have the education. you know, to take care
of the land. You know, we teach our partners
through that process. Most importantly, we collaborate
with tribal communities, tribal members, you
know, they come and join us and we move forward
through that process to teach our non -native
relatives and also other programs to kind of
jump on board and really follow through with
a lot of these indigenous teachings and ancestral
ways. So, for example, I work in a mental health
program, Solera Mental Health. Through that process,
we're able to bring in Red Earth Movement. And,
you know, a lot of these residents and clients,
they're able to learn from a natural indigenous
perspective that kind of allows them to focus
on healing from the natural ways, utilizing the
fire. What does the fireplace really do? You
know, it brings warmth. It makes food. It allows
us to put prayers down. It allows us to really
focus on the natural law. Through that process,
we're able to see a lot of changes where these
residents or clients are able to really focus
on bettering themselves from a whole healthy
living perspective. And some of these clients
struggle with trauma, suicidality, PTSD, many
forms of trauma that's endured throughout. you
know, their life process. So, you know, this
is where we focus on teaching our relatives to
really focus on their whole healthy living to
become a better person through that process.
Yeah. To chime in on that, you have the whole
health and wellness part, right? And with our,
for example, I'll share a story. One of our kids
over the summer, he, we were planting beans and
he's like, I thought this was going to be so
much boring, but this is so much fun. And we
were laughing, you know, we were just sharing
the story with him. Like, do you know what's
going on with you chemically? You know, it's
like your hands went in that soil. That soil
is healing. You know, your little happy bug totally
got activated. You know, that's why it's so much
fun. And that's also part of the reason why,
you know, we encourage everyone just go outside,
go on the land, go be one with Mother Earth.
Yeah. And to add to that, most importantly, you
know, exposure therapy. That's the key, you know,
getting your hands into the ground, feeling the
dirt. You're building this relationship, you
know, you're feeling everything physically. But
once you start to feel that, you start to understand,
you know, your energy goes into the ground and
vice versa, you know, that the medicine, the
plants are able to become a part of your life
too. So it brings a lot of healing through that
process. That's amazing. And that's the perfect
segue for my next question. Amanda, for those
of us who are visitors or settlers in this region,
what is important to understand about tribal
sovereignty and responsibility for the land?
Well, first and foremost, tribes having their
sovereignty. We are our own government, right?
And my cousin actually got this analogy one time.
She had said, because again, it was with the
audience of non -native and native, and she had
got the analogy of, You guys have your sovereignty
of having control of doing your hair, doing your
nails, getting dressed. She said, our sovereignty
will be taken before your sovereignty will. You
know, so it like having those analogies and putting
things in perspective of like, dang, you're right.
What was the other question? It was no problem.
And then just knowing like the importance of
responsibility for the land as well. Yeah. So
that's again. respecting mother earth respecting
whose territory you're on um so mother earth
we we think of her as like mother earth she's
right and we're going to be in right relation
with her um we we don't spit like do you want
me to spit on you no absolutely not thank you
um and another another analogy that um i had
talked about someone recently with someone recently
was when People develop and stuff like that,
and they're building, they want to build somewhere,
and obviously they're digging, but then they're
digging up bones, right? But then that's our
ancestors' bones that they're digging up. What
would happen if we dug up your guys' graveyards?
Yeah. It would be like a circus, right? Right.
But how is it that it's okay to do it to us?
Yeah. Absolutely. That is a very amazing point.
Thank you so much for sharing. Could you both
share a personal story that illustrates how your
community has adapted to environmental changes,
whether that be fire, drought or other challenges?
I think from my perspective, everywhere I look,
we're struggling with drought. Absolutely. You
know, the biggest thing is fire, wildfires that
are. wrecking havoc across our whole continent.
And my grandpa used to always say that if our
people are not offering, putting medicine down
or following through with our culture or even
following through with prayer, we're losing contact
with Mother Earth. And a lot of times Mother
Earth has a tendency to find a way to cleanse
herself. So that balance there is not really,
you know, being taken care of. So it's important
that we acknowledge through our cultural ways,
we preserve our language, we preserve our ceremonies,
we put offerings down so that we could acknowledge
this balance that's going on within our universe.
We have to become reverent during the time when
the universe is changing, you know, to allow
those changes to happen, but also to have respect
and also, you know, sit still. Sometimes it's
good to sit still and listen and pay attention
of what's really going on around you. So from
my experience, when I see that process happen,
I see tribes losing their language. I see them
losing their ancestral ways. Within our own community,
San Diego County, we struggled with so many wildfires
in the past. But through the knowledge of tribes
here, These tribes used to utilize biodiversity
in the past. They had control burnings. They
tended to the land. They took care of the animals,
you know, the wildlife. So, you know, our community
could learn from that process, you know. What
can control burning do and what could it teach
us, you know, to manage that process, the overgrowth,
you know, to be stewards of that process too.
Absolutely. Well, to chime in too, though, we...
Like recently we were on another reservation
and they were doing like their cultural burning,
but they were sharing with us how it's still
a process. We still need to get a burn permit.
We still need to contact this agency and this
agency. You know, it's not something that we
can just willingly practice. There's still roadblocks
along the way. yeah and then like I know another
there was actually two other tribes that had
reached out and they wanted to start their own
garden and it was like okay well what's your
water situation well we don't have that much
water okay so you know so it's things that were
that everyone's still dealing with absolutely
you both kind of touched on the idea of loss
of like knowledge and loss of like just the loss
of almost like respect for mother earth and what
and you guys don't have you can't do the same
ceremonies and practices it's a lot harder for
you guys to do it so what gives you hope when
facing these climate disruptions and these disruptions
to like maybe like the loss of like the tribal
knowledge and stuff like that events like this
yeah events like this bringing both the non -native
and native communities together with the same
the same goal in mind absolutely Most importantly
to education, you know, bringing our communities
together to learn with one another, build partnerships,
you know, create policy change, put the awareness
out there in front of our political leaders to
acknowledge that, you know, we need that type
of support. We need, you know, supportive services.
We need to provide programs that are able to
educate our younger generation and not just younger,
but older. you know, to follow through that process,
to live that whole healthy process. Absolutely.
And to our listeners, today is, I believe it's
day four of San Diego Climate Week. And today
we are at the Water Conservation Guard, as I
mentioned earlier, speaking about traditional
ecological knowledge and all of the tribal knowledge
that is here in San Diego County. Many people
here may be learning about San Diego tribal resources
for the first time, and many people listening
are probably in that same exact boat. What's
one thing you'd like everyone in this audience
to take home with them today? The knowledge that
you learn from first occupiers, tribal nations,
tribal stewards that take care of the land, educators,
programs, Red Earth Movement. You know, they're
able to teach, you know, seed to spirit program,
focusing on indigenous master gardeners that
allow us to, you know, give us the knowledge
and understanding to grow food, you know, to
stay healthy, but also have that conscience to
take care of the land as well. Yeah. Don't be
closed minded. Just listen. Even if you don't
agree with our approaches. Just listen because
something will resonate. Something will click.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can speak personally
for me when you were talking about your son with
planting the beans and how you were talking about
your body chemistry and sticking your hands in
the ground. It clicked for me that, oh my gosh,
that makes sense why as soon as I go outside
and I'm outside, if I've been studying all day,
why my energy like lifts and why I'm all of a
sudden like, wow, I'm actually happy and my headache
will go away. And that's like totally clicking
for me that that's your body chemistry with the
earth. So that's definitely amazing to hear.
If there's someone here who wants to support,
whether they be tribal, non -tribal, learn more
or build relationships with our tribal communities
around resilience, what would you say is a good
first step? Being authentically genuine. The
Native community is hard. You have historical
trauma that plays a huge role. Keep knocking
on that door. Eventually somebody will answer.
But again, come, come. Be as transparent as possible.
No hidden agenda. Yeah, I would probably say
that. Thank you. Can you repeat that question?
Of course. If there's someone here who wants
to support, learn more, or build relationships
with tribal communities around resilience, what
would you say is a good first step? Just come
with that open -minded process, you know, always
wanting to learn. And build the common ground
that we all want, you know, to take care of our
communities, to learn and also teach our younger
generation. Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing
advice. Come genuine and come with an open mind.
I really, truly admire that and love that. And
that is a good life lesson for everything, but
especially helping out our communities and our
Mother Earth as well. We always end our episodes
with a call to action. What is... What is one
action you encourage our listeners and our live
audience here today to take that supports resilience,
water stewardship, or Indigenous leadership?
The call to action, let's remember that resilience
is not just an idea, it's a practice. We've heard
how Indigenous knowledge, intergenerational dialogue,
and right relationship with the land can guide
us towards balance and justice. The call to action
for each of us is to carry these lessons forward,
listen deeply to Indigenous voices, support tribal
-led initiatives, and build respectful relationships
with the land and with one another. Whether it's
volunteering, advocating for policy change, tending
to your local environment, or simply beginning
with gratitude for the land you stand on. Each
step matters. Together we can transform awareness
into action and action into lasting resilience.
That's amazing. Thank you so much for that call
to action, both of you. Today's conservation
reminds us that resilience is rooted in relationships
with land, with water, and with each other. Listening
to the voices of Indigenous and traditional knowledge
keepers isn't just important, it's essential.
As you leave here today, I invite you to carry
their wisdom forward in your own lives, choices
and communities. We want to thank you, our guests
and our audience as well. Want to hear more from
Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast? Be
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and much, much more. Until next time, this is
Climate to Action signing off.