Hi, I'm Molly Sarwatari, and this is Climate
to Action, a California State University San
Marcos student podcast. And my name is Alex.
We're here to amplify voices, explore solutions
to climate change, and address climate injustice
for all living things. Here with C2A, we are
committed to providing a variety of perspectives
for addressing the climate crisis in every episode.
Stay tuned for the end of the episode where we
provide a simple way you can take action yourself.
But first, we'd like to acknowledge that our
recording studio is located on the traditional
territory of the Luiseno -Paimcoicham people.
CSUSM and its surrounding areas are still home
to the six federally recognized bands of the
La Jolla, Paula, Palma, Pechanga, Rincon, and
Sobobo -Luceño -Payaquichum people. It's also
important to acknowledge that this land remains
the shared space among the Kupeño, Kumeyaay,
and Epay peoples. For today's episode, we are
thrilled to introduce a very special guest, Allie
Mariko Dressel. Allie is passionate about sustainability,
marine conservation, and climate justice, and
has applied her diverse skills from performance
arts to community engagement in the fight against
climate change. Allie, we're excited to have
you here today. Can you tell us more about your
background? What inspired your journey in climate
justice, marine conservation, and the arts? Sure.
So I grew up in New Mexico. I actually grew up
in the desert. And I was very lucky to have,
probably to this day, the only marine science
teacher in the entire state of New Mexico. And
he was incredibly inspirational. He actually
inspired whole generations of students to pursue
oceanography for their careers, myself included.
And so that's what initially brought me to San
Diego. So I went to the University of San Diego
for my undergrad and I did my degrees in both
marine science and theater. And initially I thought,
yes, I want to pursue marine biology for sure.
I had also done theater since I was a kid, so
I was really into it. I had done children's theater
throughout. I had in high school, I directed
Dracula, which was a really awesome production.
So I really enjoyed that. And I thought, yeah,
I'll still dabble in it, you know, and maybe
minor in college or something. But then as I
started to take classes, I realized that I really
enjoyed theater a lot still. So I thought, you
know what? I actually like this too much. I would
like to. double major. And so that's how the
two sort of started. And in doing so, I actually
started to see the connections between the two.
So in marine science, as we were learning more
about what's happening to our oceans and with
climate change and all these things, I wanted
to pursue conservation because that seemed to
be the main direction that we all need to go.
And also climate action. At the same time as
I was studying theater, theater has always been
a force for social good and for social change,
I mean. So theater has always been a force for
social change. So it has always helped to deconstruct
and reconstruct social norms. So you think about
the media, think about Hollywood and its impact
and its influence on culture and cultural norms.
And so this is what got me thinking, hey, why
don't we... combine these two and use theater,
especially at the time I was really interested
in interactive, and this is before immersive
was even the buzzword, but immersive forms of
engagement as a way to really create these powerful,
impactful, and potentially life -changing experiences.
And why not use those kinds of experiences to
connect people to oceans, to ocean conservation,
to climate action, to all the communications
that we need. But do it in a way that's very
innovative and very impactful and memorable and
hopefully life changing. That's so amazing. And
shout out to that teacher in New Mexico who inspired
you to go into marine conservation. And it's
crazy because I also did theater in high school.
And so when I got to college, I was so like,
oh, my gosh, do I go into theater? Because I
love it. And you're so right about it breaking
down like social norms because it truly just
allows you to kind of. Be who you want to be
and allow you to be the person who you've always
strived to be. Your work bridges the worlds of
marine science and performance art. How did these
worlds meet for you? Oh, well, I guess you kind
of just answered that a little bit. Sure, I can
expand. It goes on. So I graduated a while back
now. So after I graduated with two degrees and
you do what I did, what everyone does with two
degrees and immediately join the circus. So,
but for real, I actually joined the circus. I
became a professional clown. And this was with
like more of a French style circus. So we did
the full face paint and I learned a lot of acrobatics
and physical theater, physical movement type
of work in a French kind of style. And so I worked
with a particular circus group and we traveled
all over, did lots of shows around California
and the US and then eventually Australia. At
the same time, I... I became a professional performer
of all sorts, so a professional dancer and character
actor. So I got to work in a lot of different
music festivals, got to travel all over the world
and do music festivals, which was really amazing,
and some interactive theater shows. I moved to
LA and lived there for five years doing all sorts
of different kinds of things. Some of it was
corporate, some of it was for theater, some of
it was for... all sorts of other quirky things
so and the reason I wanted to pursue that world
is to really dive into the both into the entertainment
industry to kind of learn the ropes but also
what is going on with the immersive world currently
and explore those mediums as an actor because
one I enjoy performing so why not do it while
I was young but also because I knew that I wanted
to eventually direct and produce and create this
vision that I had started in undergrad so I had
from my undergraduate thesis I actually started
to create interactive performance pieces where
we had for example had gone to Balboa Park in
San Diego during Earth Day and did these little
like interactive street theater types of things
where I dressed up like a sea turtle and people
had to save me from the net and so I started
experimenting with stuff like this And then as
I dived into what it's like in the professional
world, got really good at costume design and
makeup and that sort of thing and built a really
beautiful network of amazingly talented actors
and dancers and character actors and producers,
directors and tech people and all this. And so
that's what I had always kind of kept a toe in
the ocean conservation world, too, where I had
done some. coral reef conservation work in Thailand.
I had done some in French Polynesia, always with
this intention of kind of building off of what
I had started in college and then eventually
wanted to create, you know, a bigger and bigger
project out of it. And so when the pandemic hit
and I lost all of my jobs, I thought, well, maybe
this is a good time to go to grad school. And
I found this program at Scripps Institution of
Oceanography. That was very interdisciplinary.
So I was like, this is perfect. I can kind of
fuse these two things together and leverage this
program to take it to the next step because that's
exactly what it was meant for. And so I got my
master's in marine conservation and biodiversity
from Scripps at UCSD. And that's exactly what
I did for the program. produced an immersive
show and so that show was at the birch aquarium
in san diego and it was about how climate change
impacts coral reefs and so we had a whole series
of different actors and characters that were
corals and fish parrotfish we even had a climate
change industry fossil fuel industry type of
character that bleached the corals and then we
had what amounts to like a community engagement
kind of format but basically very interactive
way of the audience connecting with the corals
and helping rebuild the reef so to answer your
question of how does it all link that that was
the seed or i should say that was the sapling
that has grown out of what was initially the
seed of creating something and that which has
now become what i'm building to be a non -profit
called resiliency immersive whose mission is
to connect communities to ocean conservation
and climate action through immersive experiences
and theatrical storytelling so that's how it
all kind of connects and then at the same time
i also do climate justice work on the side I
think everything you just explained that you've
done is the coolest thing I've ever heard. I
also think it's really interesting doing theater
in a way to show people like myself that doesn't
have knowledge about climate change and climate
action and bringing it into like a theater -esque,
because that sounds like something I would want
to watch, which you mentioned your event at the
Birch Aquarium. Why do you think immersive experimental
learning is so effective in communicating climate
issues? I think it has a lot to do with impact.
So in the theater world, we're constantly finding
ways to evoke and help bring out emotion or to
illustrate stories that are felt in a way that
is more memorable because it's not just in your
head space. You feel it in your heart space.
You feel it emotionally. You feel it throughout
your whole body. And I think immersive forms
of engagement are really good at this because
they can break the mental experience and help
shift people's perspective into something a little
bit more physical or emotional or sense -oriented.
So in a way, it's literally shifting your perspective.
Sometimes it can be very literally. For example,
some immersive theater will take you underneath
tables or take you through like tunnels or like
in Meow Wolf you'll go through a washing machine.
So it's like literally taking you into these
different forms and different realities of sorts.
And so I think that's important for kind of shaking
up our day to day. So, for example, if you go
see a movie. And it could be like a really amazing
documentary and you can feel really inspired
and all this. But at the end of the day, you're
still, you know, you grab your jacket and you
go home. But with something like immersive experiences
that can that that really like shakes you to
the core and can create these really profound
and memorable experiences that you physically
remember. You're not just going to take your
jacket and remember. go home and then forget
about it the next day you're going to think about
it and it might influence you in ways that you
can't you wouldn't expect or in ways that you
like subconsciously over time so I could actually
go on forever about the power of immersive theater
but I think ultimately it's that it's that it's
a it's a very visceral experiences that shakes
your reality quite literally Absolutely. Theater
is an art form that truly just can change someone's
perspective for the rest of their life. Theater
also has this insanely unique ability to evoke
deep emotional responses. Allie, how does your
use of theater raise awareness for the climate
crisis and provide healing for both actors and
the community? So one thing that I found that
was very successful with this model is that people
respond really well. when they can see themselves
reflected in stories. And so if you take a coral,
for example, a lot of people may or may not know
what a coral is. Even if you show them a picture,
it's like, what is that? Is that a plant? Is
that an animal? Somewhere in between? Who knows?
But the more that people start to see their experiences
reflected in what the coral is going through,
the more they're going to empathize with it.
So I think that's the key is empathy, actually.
And so... With the show that we did at the aquarium,
for example, we had the corals start out the
show with, well, first of all, I should say,
it was a whole immersive experience. So people
come, they enter the space, they get to meet
the different parrotfish and the corals kind
of interacting with people as they're kind of
mingling and talking to each other. And then
when the theatrical show started, we had projection
mapping of actual coral footage that we worked
with the science team. that was doing coral research
at Scripps and so on. So anyway, it was this
whole like ocean immersive environment that you're
in. And the corals start the story by doing their
Polynesian dance, which is very fun and lively,
bright colors of fabrics and everything. And
then the industrial character comes in and tears
off their fabrics to reveal these white body
suits underneath. And so there's something very
visceral about that image of getting literally
torn and to reveal that bleaching effect and
because the actor was able to emote in her face
that's happening there's something powerful that
happens when people see that so they can still
feel this empathy when they see like a coral
like an image of a coral reef being bleached
but when they see the human emoting it there's
something that connects people on an emotional
level And I suppose it's anthropomorphizing it
in a way that really resonates with people. And
that seems to be very effective. You've mentioned
that your climate action play is aimed at millennials.
Could you tell us a bit more about why this specific
generation? Sure. So if we wait too long to do
the climate action. Something that happens a
lot is, oh, the next generation will take care
of it. Oh, it'll be the next generation. They're
smart. They're young. They're motivated. They'll
figure it out. The problem is we have a very
short window of time in which we have the opportunity
to take significant action to protect the stability
of climate on our planet. Because the thing with
climate change is it's not so... much that the
change is concerning climate change has always
been part of the history of the earth that's
not such a big deal what is a big deal is the
rate of change is so high and so much higher
than anything that we've ever seen in the history
of our planet that we don't know what's going
to happen in terms of how intense things are
going to get and how shooken up these cycles
are going to get and how that's going to disrupt
the relative stability that we've had during
the most of our human existence so um remind
me what where i was going with that why the you're
aiming this at millennials like this generation
thank you you're welcome so because we have such
a short window of time to protect that stability
on the planet we have we have to take action
as soon as possible and then actually really
we should have been doing this 50 years ago 70
years ago ideally but you know now is the next
best time and so the reason I like to focus on
the millennial generation is because they are
the ones who are either already in positions
of power or are going into positions of power
to have that agency and that authority to make
those really significant infrastructure changes
that we need both at the policy level and at
the business level and and so on the older generations
to some degree yes but as we've seen they seem
to be a little bit stuck in their ways I would
say we can include Gen X, since they tend to
be forgotten. It depends on if they're interested
in this kind of thing. And then, of course, Gen
Z, too, I think is definitely going to resonate
really well with this. But the millennials really
are in the positions of Congress and all of that.
They're going into those positions, if not already.
So I think that's the primary reason to reach
out. And same with Gen Z. If we were to wait,
for example, for... the youngest and because
of this uh format that we have with resiliency
is very like um big and has lots of costumes
and everything people always say oh my gosh this
is perfect for children and yes it is children
really do respond really well to it however i
wouldn't want to focus only on children because
of exactly this this issue that if we wait for
them to figure it out it's too late it'll be
too late It's already a little bit too late for
all of us, so we do the best that we can now
with the time that we have. That's awesome. I
have truly never even thought about it as thinking
about it from the perspective of the generation
that's going into the positions of power should
be the one that we're really trying to focus
on. I've always kind of thought, oh, obviously
we should try to influence all generations, but
like you said, there's wishful thinking out there
for that kind of push. But I think it's amazing
because I've always thought of it as like, oh,
Gen Z will be like the one to like really change
the way because I've noticed a very strong attachment
to the environment with people that are in Gen
Z, like myself, my friends, my people in my major,
what have you. But yeah, focusing on millennials
is a really good idea because it's going to make
the change happen now because they are the ones
who have the ability to make the change. Now
we're going to pivot slightly. We're aware that
you have an indigenous background. Indigenous
knowledge has always been integral to understanding
and responding to environmental issues, especially
here at Cal State San Marcos. We have a very
deep -rooted history with Indigenous knowledge.
How do you incorporate Indigenous perspectives
into your storytelling and into your performances?
Oh, yay. I love this question. So, yeah, growing
up, we are Piro, which the Indigenous word is
actually Atsihem, which is our... the last remaining
word of the language. Piro is actually the Spanish
word for the indigenous group that was central
to New Mexico. So my family are one of the last
remaining descendants of the Atsihem. We have
basically been assimilated and kind of over time
just sort of disconnected and people have moved
on and gone moved to other places and so on so
we don't have a centralized tribe of sorts we're
not a federally recognized tribe so what we have
are literally the stories and the the remaining
um memories that was passed down from my great
-grandmother to my grandmother to my mother to
me to and then to the generations um continuing
on so This means that it's very special, all
of those memories and all of that knowledge that
we have been able to retain despite everything
that has happened and despite the attempted genocide
of all of the indigenous peoples here. And so
I think the best way to answer this question
is that it's something I don't really have to
think about. indigenous way is just something
that I grew up with and so it just makes sense
and then it wasn't until much later that I started
to realize that oh I guess that you I guess that
you could consider that to be like an indigenous
perspective but in reality it was really just
well why wouldn't you think of yourself as one
with the environment, as in harmony with, as
everything that you do is in consideration of
how everything is holistically working together
as opposed to in domination over, or as our current
paradigm is based and rooted in extraction of
domination over. And so... In my storytelling,
I suppose, some of that just kind of comes out
naturally. And then in thinking through how we
can use resiliency going forward, I would love
to continue to use it as a platform to help uplift
those voices that have historically been left
out or excluded or never had a voice. And this
includes both human and non -human. So I guess
to give an example. for the Birch Aquarium event
again. The choral characters worked very closely
with a couple different Polynesian groups to
kind of integrate the Polynesian perspectives
and knowledge into those characters and into
the performances. We wanted them to have like
a global representation of reefs, since reefs
are all over the world and they require global
action because climate change is their biggest
threat and climate change requires a global collective
action. And so the corals danced to a Tahitian
song. And so we had them do a Tahitian dance.
And then we also opened the space. We opened
the whole experience with a traditional Hawaiian
chant from the Kumulipo. And so I was very lucky
and very fortunate to work with this beautiful
Hawaiian elder who was able to provide that chant.
And it was honoring the coral reef ancestors,
understanding that the corals have come first
because they are millions and millions of years
old. And so they are our original ancestors.
So that is one way to kind of integrate the indigenous.
knowledge and perspective. And then going forward,
yes, the stories that we'll tell, I would love
to continue to weave in not just the knowledge,
but also the stewardship and advocate for how
can we help generate positions for Indigenous
stewards and leaders. And I think this is something
that... We've seen some successes with like the
Chumash Marine National Sanctuary being led by
the Chumash is a beautiful example of what can
happen when there is indigenous leadership. And
so that is one route of advocacy that I would
really like to focus on is making sure that there
is that avenue for indigenous leadership, not
just drawing from the knowledge, but actually
creating space for people to Yeah, help un -mess
up the world. That's nice. And I feel like very
inclusive. And even like you said, people that
don't have a voice, if they were to experience
that, I feel like they would feel more involved
for sure. Now, given the overwhelming nature
of the climate crisis, we'd love to know how
you cope with climate anxiety and uncertainty.
How do you think performance art can help others
manage those emotions? The first thing that comes
to mind is somatic integration. So somatic being
in your body. So one thing that I think our culture
has gotten very accustomed to is seeing everything,
experiencing everything through a screen or through
sitting all day, working on a job at a desk job
or watching TV forever, looking down at your
phones. And there's not a whole lot of movement.
And so I think... Being able to integrate more
movement into our daily lives and daily practices
is really key to help move that anxiety out of
you. So it doesn't stay stuck in your body or
stuck in your head or wherever it may live, but
actually gets moved. And so things like dancing,
going to music festivals is a great way. to release
a lot of that pent up anxiety. And I think that's
part of the reason why they're so successful
is because people need that outlet and they don't
even need to explain it. It's just they go to
it. They feel that catharsis as it would be in
theater language, that release. And so and I
think things like yoga or sports in general or
just running, whatever it may be, is really important
to. continue on a daily basis so that we don't
get so stuck and so caught up in the potential
despair and hopelessness that we are bombarded
with every day. That's so amazing. The work that
you're doing, Bridges, performance art, and of
course, climate action. And it's something that
we've never really seen before, or at least I've
never seen anything before. And Alex, I don't
know if you've ever seen anything like that.
I have not. I'm like mesmerized. Yeah, it's so
cool. And your experiences and life from. you
know being in a professional circus and being
a professional clown and then going like coming
from New Mexico where they only had one marine
conservation teacher and coming to University
of San Diego and double majoring and everything
in between has just been so inspiring to myself
and hopefully to our listeners. But unfortunately,
we are coming to the end of the podcast. However,
we want to introduce you to a tradition that
we do here at Climate to Action. We offer our
listeners a chance to implement something into
their own lives that helps combat climate change
in some small ways. In other words, we call this
our call to action. Ali, throughout your work,
you've emphasized the importance of collaboration
and justice. What is one thing our listeners
can do to contribute to climate action in their
own lives today? There's so many to choose from.
I think one of the most impactful things that
we can do is stay engaged in a collective action
kind of way. And so that can be different things
to different people. So that could mean... participating
in a rally like we saw this past weekend. It
could mean showing up to your local policymakers
meetings and giving a public comment. It could
mean lobbying with your local policymakers about
a particular legislation that you support or
oppose, or maybe even suggesting some kind of
legislation that isn't there yet. And at the
very least, even if you don't get involved with
policy, stay positive and encourage the people
closest to you, your friends and family, to never
forget that our planet, our Earth, is such a
gem of a planet and that if we f*** it up here,
there's no going back. And so I think... it's
important to maintain that perspective and so
if anything the call to action would be to remember
that we are part of one with our overall planet
and we are not again in dominion over it and
is there some there's one more thing I would
love to add if that's okay absolutely so the
other part of my life I didn't really get into
so much is in the in the climate justice space
but I am the climate justice policy coordinator
for climate action campaign which is a local
non -profit here in San Diego so this is my full
-time day job um and then I'm building up resiliency
immersive as like as we as we do you know going
through the ups and downs of figuring out how
to do what is the best way to do that as a non
-profit or or whatnot but the the work at climate
action campaign has given me a really fantastic
insight into the policy landscape and how to
most effectively make those make those changes
at the local level which then have those cascading
effects outward and so I think from that perspective
I would also say that it's important to stay
engaged and not bury our head under the sand
despite how difficult it is and keeping in tune
with the sorts of nonprofits that are doing this
kind of advocacy work or are doing the really
boots on the ground types of work can be really
effective too because they can help guide okay
this event is happening or or this project is
happening and this is how you can get involved
that is some beautiful and super powerful advice
Allie, thank you so, so much for sharing your
insights with us today. We've learned a lot about
how creativity, policy, and community engagement
can intersect to drive meaningful climate action.
It's been incredible hearing about the work you're
doing, and we encourage everyone listening to
check out the resources Allie mentioned and take
action in their own lives. Want to hear more
from Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast?
Be sure to check us out wherever you get podcasts
and follow us on our socials at Climate to Action.
That's at Climate to Action on Instagram and
at Climate to Action on TikTok. We'll be posting
updates, behind -the -scenes content, and more.
Remember, it's never too late to start making
a difference in the climate crisis. Keep learning,
keep acting, and keep pushing for change. Until
next time, this is Climate to Action signing
off. Thank you.