1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,960 Hi, I'm Saturn, and this is Climate to Action, a California State University San Marcos student 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:09,960 podcast. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:10,960 And my name is Alex. 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:16,200 We're here to amplify voices, explore solutions to climate change, and address climate justice 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,800 for all living things. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,400 We are committed to incorporating discussions on Indigenous knowledge in addressing the 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,160 climate crisis and including a call to action in every episode. 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,760 First, we'd like to acknowledge that our university and studio are located on the traditional 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,160 territory of the Luiseno-Payómkawichum people. 10 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:40,680 CSUSM and its surrounding areas are still home to the six federally recognized bands 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:47,960 of the La Jolla, Paula, Palma, Pechanga, Rincon, and Soboba -Luiseno-Payómkawichum people. 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,480 It's also important to acknowledge that this land remains the shared space among the Cupeno, 13 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:54,440 Kumeyaay, and Ipai peoples. 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,560 For today's episode, we wanted to take a deep dive into how the climate crisis is reported 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,560 in the news. 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,880 To get a behind-the-scenes look into the world of climate crisis reporting, we've invited 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,760 two very special guests. 18 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,360 Let's welcome Mackenzie Elmer, an environment and energy reporter from Voice of San Diego, 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,480 and Kori Suzuki, a reporter and visual journalist from KPBS. 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,600 Thank you both for being with us today. 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,360 Yeah, thanks for having us. 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,160 Thanks for having us. 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:28,160 So you both report on climate and environmental issues, and you do really great work. 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,760 But before we get into that, please tell us a bit about yourselves. 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:32,760 All right. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,080 Well, thank you guys so much for having us. 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,080 I'm Kori. 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,780 I am the South Bay and Imperial Valley reporter at KPBS. 29 00:01:41,780 --> 00:01:44,120 My position is through the California Local News Fellowship. 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:51,960 So we're a network of reporters that are placed across the state for two years, and we are 31 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,280 placed in cohorts. 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:02:00,360 So I was placed in San Diego along with several colleagues at different newsrooms. 33 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,120 And I've been covering the environment and climate change for a while now. 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,360 I come from a mostly radio background. 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,400 I got my start in public radio working at small community radio stations in the Bay 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,960 Area. 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:23,360 Some of the first stories that I worked on at those stations were about tensions between 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:30,560 the need for more housing and for climate change measures and to protect endangered 39 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,320 species or species that are at risk of becoming endangered. 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,000 So it's something that I've been thinking about for a while. 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:45,120 In my position now at KPBS, it plays a really big role in both of the regions that I cover. 42 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:51,720 In South Bay, Chula Vista, National City, Imperial Beach, these are all places that 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:58,040 are experiencing, like the rest of San Diego County, the kind of early tremors of the climate 44 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,040 crisis. 45 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:05,080 And the Imperial Valley, even more so, is an area that sees some of the most extreme 46 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:12,840 heat waves in the Western United States and is also experiencing multiple different sort 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:21,400 of slow moving elements of climate change and how the crisis collides with things like 48 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,760 water use and agriculture. 49 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,680 So climate change is a really big part of all of the work that I do at KPBS. 50 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,680 Nice. 51 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Well, thanks for all that you do. 52 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,080 Yeah, seriously. 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,080 Thanks for having me. 54 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,020 I have so many questions about radio, but first I want to give MacKenzie a chance to 55 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:41,280 introduce herself. 56 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,040 Yeah, thanks. 57 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,880 So I am from the Midwest. 58 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,240 I got my start in journalism at the University of Iowa, studying journalism. 59 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,480 That's where I kind of first got into like environmental topics. 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,200 I'm one of those kids who's sort of weird and who always knew they wanted to be a journalist 61 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,080 once I heard about that was a thing you could do for a living. 62 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,680 And I always was just interested in science as a person. 63 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,800 I remember reading about climate change in like a National Geographic magazine, like 64 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,720 late, like early 2000s. 65 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:18,480 And they were talking about throwing up huge mirrors in space to reflect the sun's radiation 66 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,680 to like prevent global warming from happening. 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,160 And I thought like, well, that's crazy. 68 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,160 There's got to be better. 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,120 There's got to be better solutions than that. 70 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,160 Like maybe not create greenhouse gases in the first place. 71 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,320 So I went to school, studied, studied up, started doing a little bit of environment 72 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,960 reporting there, but then kind of started in a very traditional like newspaper journalism 73 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:40,960 career. 74 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:48,440 I started at a small paper next to the Mississippi River, did a bit of reporting on some like 75 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:54,000 the problem of fertilizer on farms and how it can pollute the Mississippi River. 76 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,280 And then kind of just worked my way up. 77 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:57,280 I started, I did crime beat. 78 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,280 I did the state, I covered the state legislature. 79 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:04,840 I kind of dabbled in some water issue, like water wars when I started covering city hall 80 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:10,120 in Des Moines, but there weren't any environment reporting jobs back then. 81 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,360 They were kind of few and far between. 82 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,920 It wasn't really as it is now. 83 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,680 It's sort of taking off and it seems like every outlet has an environment or climate 84 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:18,680 reporter. 85 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:24,000 So I moved to California to do some graduate school work at Scripps Institution of Oceanography 86 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,880 and studied climate science and policy there for about a year. 87 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,400 And then this gig opened up at Voice of San Diego, where I work now. 88 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:38,400 And I started in March of 2020, right before the pandemic hit and just kind of spent a 89 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,480 lot of time thinking about these issues and studying them in my garage as there were a 90 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,600 lot of environments to go out into really during that time. 91 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:52,760 But climate, since I studied that at Scripps, it really permeates every topic. 92 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,640 You can pretty much find a climate angle. 93 00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:01,600 Maybe you can challenge me later, like find a climate angle on like any topic you pick 94 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,520 because it is truly a global phenomenon that we really don't know how to stop or slow down 95 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,040 in any real way at the moment. 96 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:15,040 And so, yeah, I'm just I'm excited to sit here and talk to you guys about everything 97 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,920 climate reporting. 98 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,800 So do you think the climate crisis is being covered accurately and efficiently in the 99 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:22,800 news? 100 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,880 MacKenzie, would you like to share your thoughts first? 101 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,960 Well, the news is a very large grouping of people who are in the media. 102 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:41,560 I would say the climate crisis has become definitely a more accepted concept. 103 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Maybe even just 10 years ago, you definitely had like a split where conservative politicians 104 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,520 and just sort of conservatively maybe news outlets sort of refused to acknowledge that 105 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:57,040 climate change was a thing or a real term or that was had any scientific basis. 106 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:03,480 And that's a lot of that's because there's a lot at stake for the economies of scale 107 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,120 that we can get into later. 108 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,320 Fossil fuels really drive the global economy and to say and to try to accept the climate 109 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,080 crisis as real, it means those those sorts of businesses are at risk. 110 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:21,680 And I think but I think more and more you kind of see, especially as we have experienced 111 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:29,040 more like climate driven weather related catastrophes, not to mention multiple catastrophic floods 112 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,920 locally, across the country, hurricanes. 113 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:39,160 Like I think you see this this divide sort of like smoothing out. 114 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,760 And I think there's been some more acceptance on both sides of the aisle. 115 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:48,800 And I think media outlets are doing a better job of hiring people who are more trained 116 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:54,360 in understanding the science and have more like backgrounds in science as well, which 117 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,800 can be useful. 118 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,600 So I've definitely seen like it getting better. 119 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,440 Can it always improve? 120 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,440 Of course. 121 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,360 But I think it's just a matter of kind of sometimes trial and error for a lot of these 122 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,560 news outlets and like what's the best way we can locally make climate matter? 123 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,960 And I'd be curious to hear what Corey thinks about that, too. 124 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:14,960 Yeah. 125 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,320 You want to share your thoughts on that? 126 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,040 Yeah, I mean, I I agree with a lot of what you said, MacKenzie. 127 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:27,160 I mean, I think that so much has changed in the way that the press cover climate change, 128 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,280 the press as a whole. 129 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:34,240 And like you like you mentioned, I mean, there's so many different parts of what today is the 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,240 news media. 131 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:42,600 I mean, like right now, it's newspapers, it's nonprofit news organizations, it's public 132 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,560 radio, it's public television, it's commercial television, cable news. 133 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:51,720 And then there's sort of like a whole ecosystem, too, of influencers and and other people who 134 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,880 are who are also, I think we can safely say now part of the media and part of the the 135 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:02,040 groups of people who distribute information and and influence how people think. 136 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,160 Although I think all of those have are at like sort of different levels of produce, 137 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,520 different levels of of accurate information. 138 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:19,240 But I think I mean, in terms of like sort of journalists in the traditional sense and 139 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:27,560 in terms of legacy newsrooms, I think for a long time, I mean, I think the the press 140 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,600 did a very bad job of covering the climate crisis and climate change. 141 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:41,280 I mean, in the you know, even in the in the early 2000s, the early 2010s, I mean, there 142 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:51,800 is has has for a long time been this sort of kind of instinct by journalists to create 143 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:57,440 some sort of equivalence between the people who say that climate change is happening and 144 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:04,800 the massive scientific consensus that this is this is something that is unfolding around 145 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:11,160 the world and to climate deniers, people who who would spread misinformation and who say 146 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,960 that climate change is a is a hoax or that it's not necessarily going to be going to 147 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,320 be as bad as as researchers predict it will be. 148 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:26,760 And so I think just for for a really long time, there was sort of that instinct among 149 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:33,760 the press to to kind of hold up both of those sides of or both of those perspectives as 150 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:39,920 equal instead of sort of looking to the researchers that were tracking these very real and in 151 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,560 places like like Hawaii and other parts of the world who were tracking this very real 152 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,640 rise in carbon emissions. 153 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:53,320 And you know, there were like I think we'll get into later, but there were there were 154 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,520 massive companies to fossil fuel companies that were doing research at the time and had 155 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,120 also come to some to similar conclusions. 156 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:10,120 So it's not necessarily that we should blame the press for for the slow pace of action 157 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,800 on climate change, for all of it necessarily. 158 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,840 But I do think it's important to to say that the press has played a role in being slow 159 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,920 to recognize the dangers of climate change in the beginning. 160 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,640 And I think part of that, I mean, is that, you know, it's such a massive thing to kind 161 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,000 of wrap your head around. 162 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:35,040 I mean, and and all of us as as people are kind of, you know, our brains aren't necessarily 163 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:42,160 wired to sort of think about problems at this kind of massive scale and massive time timeline. 164 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,840 That's that's sort of something that is not always easy for for us to to think about in 165 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:54,360 terms of, you know, thinking about like millions of of of birds or like or hundreds of thousands 166 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,360 of species. 167 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,640 Those large scales aren't are difficult to to comprehend. 168 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:07,600 But I still think it's I think it's important to to say that we we've played a role in the 169 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,880 in the slow pace of action on climate change. 170 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,800 But I agree with MacKenzie that things have have changed a lot. 171 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,020 And I really feel like, too, there there was one year to me that really stood out in terms 172 00:12:18,020 --> 00:12:24,880 of when sort of I think these the climate disasters that we're starting to see, the 173 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,140 extreme weather that we're starting to see that has been linked with climate change sort 174 00:12:28,140 --> 00:12:34,080 of started to take hold a little bit more within the kind of the the minds of sort of 175 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,120 everyone who is in the press or or journalists in the press. 176 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:46,840 And I think that was in in the the summer and the year after of of twenty twenty. 177 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,880 I mean, in January, there were these massive wildfires that were happening in Australia 178 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:53,880 of that year. 179 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,760 And then throughout the kind of that kind of whole year, there were just all of these 180 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,720 other on top of on top of covid. 181 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,840 There were all of these other environmental disasters that took place across the world 182 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,800 that I think in some ways, you know, the the wildfires in northern California that turn 183 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:10,800 the skies orange. 184 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,360 Yeah, things like things like that that were really hard for people to to look away from 185 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,560 and to to kind of to to pretend like they weren't happening. 186 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:25,240 So I think that to me, that was one year that I feel like was a little bit of a turning 187 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,160 point also in terms of awareness within within the press. 188 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,080 I think it's like scaring people to all of these things that are happening. 189 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:41,760 All of the like you guys are saying, the natural disasters, because before climate change wasn't 190 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,520 really something I would hear about often. 191 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,720 And now with media and the news and everything we have, it's also important for like youth 192 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:55,360 that we have like social media, TV, streaming, everything. 193 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:01,920 We have it more exposed if people are interested to talk about it and also to take climate 194 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:02,920 action. 195 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,600 So we want to talk about climate change, but then also not talk about what we can do to 196 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,600 combat it as well. 197 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,360 And I know you were going to say something. 198 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,360 Oh, yeah, sorry. 199 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,640 I just wanted to follow up on one of Corey's earlier points. 200 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:24,920 It's true that journalists, I think, in our ethos, we learn of, you know, objectivity 201 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:30,480 being like the most important thing in journalism objectivity, meaning like, you know, talk 202 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,240 to as many sources as you can and present all sides and try to get as close to the truth 203 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,240 as possible. 204 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:43,760 Kind of got in our way and the climate crisis perspective, because we for years, as Corey 205 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,760 was saying, we framed it as a debate, though we have, you know, 99% of scientists agree 206 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,240 that climate change is real and it's caused by use of fossil fuels, etc. 207 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:58,160 I would like that's a very accepted and well understood for decades by science. 208 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,800 But journalists and media continue to treat it as a debate. 209 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,000 And whenever we talk to a scientist about climate change, we would talk to a skeptic 210 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,840 so that we felt we had both sides of the story represented. 211 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,380 I think it wasn't until I think the LA Times may have been one of the first papers I realized 212 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:17,800 or recognized had taken a stance. 213 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,760 And they I think they produced like an editorial to that effect that said we're no longer going 214 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,320 to frame this as a debate. 215 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,440 We're just going to talk about climate change. 216 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,440 Like it's a fact. 217 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:27,440 It's real. 218 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,760 And we're no longer going to like take this stance. 219 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,360 And that's another thing about Voice of San Diego. 220 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:39,280 We don't purport to be like traditional like objective journalism. 221 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,360 We understand and accept and own that like objectivity is virtually unattainable. 222 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:44,440 We're all human. 223 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:45,440 We have subjectivity. 224 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,280 We have values. 225 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,120 And so that's why like as part of our mission statement, we share what our values are as 226 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,480 a news organization so that readers can go to that and they know that, you know, we believe 227 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,480 that climate change is real. 228 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,320 We believe that a clean environment is important. 229 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:08,200 And so we will have like a stance on some of these things to that effect. 230 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,800 And I think that's really important as well. 231 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:15,480 And more and more you see news outlets of all types of political backgrounds taking that 232 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:16,480 kind of stance. 233 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,080 Can I ask a question? 234 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Yeah, actually. 235 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:28,680 I guess just going off of that, MacKenzie, I am kind of curious what you think about 236 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:37,720 how sort of coverage of climate change has been in this election cycle. 237 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,720 Because I feel like we've like a lot has changed. 238 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:49,080 But at the same time, I do like I've sort of throughout this last year leading up to 239 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:57,840 the November election, I've had this feeling kind of that the kind of question of what 240 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:05,160 a shift in the American political landscape will mean for climate change has not really 241 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,400 been at the forefront of the conversation as much. 242 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:15,840 And I feel like it to me, it sometimes feel like it should be like the thing at the forefront 243 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:21,280 of the conversation about what is going to happen over the next four years. 244 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,320 And so I don't know. 245 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,960 I'm curious what you all think about how that has looked. 246 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:36,360 I guess since you asked me first, Corey, I will just say looking locally at San Diego 247 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:45,200 politics, Mayor Todd Gloria, City of San Diego mayor, he talked about climate change a lot. 248 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,120 Talked a big game about climate, passed a new climate action plan, basically an updated 249 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,260 or his own version of it in his first term. 250 00:17:55,260 --> 00:18:04,240 And then the second time around, climate change was not a topic at all in the political spectrum. 251 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,160 Very rarely was it brought up. 252 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:14,040 And I think that's climate change often falls off the political agenda locally, nationally, 253 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,600 particularly when there are other types of crises that sort of grab hold of everyone's 254 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:27,640 attention, which is often like everyone's dealing with the economic outfall of COVID, 255 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,200 inflation. 256 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,840 People are just worried about their expensive groceries and don't really have time to worry 257 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:41,640 about the sea level rising in 20 years and engulfing the beaches of San Diego necessarily. 258 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,380 I think it's and that's fair in some respects. 259 00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:51,680 And politics is a natural four year cycle. 260 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,000 It's naturally set in these sort of short term vision timelines. 261 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,120 So it's hard to keep climate change relevant. 262 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:09,720 Unfortunately, the human race is one that doesn't respond well unless it's an emergency. 263 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,600 And so I think what we'll continue to see are like when we feel the grip of climate 264 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,240 change sort of like on our economy, like for instance, I do a lot of reporting on the Colorado 265 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,600 River, which is like the main source of water for San Diego. 266 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,600 And that is super affected by climate change. 267 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,280 The water is overused, it's drying up in certain areas. 268 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,840 We got to find out a solution. 269 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:39,080 When we had that drought that lasted a couple of years, two years ago, climate change was 270 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,920 kind of like back on the map. 271 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,840 And so we'll see it pop up again, I think, but this last election cycle really, you know, 272 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,040 there wasn't a lot of space for it. 273 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,400 It was a lot about like, you know, Biden v Trump and, you know, Kamala v Trump. 274 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:59,640 And then that was like the most pressing crisis was like, you know, this huge party swing 275 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,640 and we'll feel the outfall of that later. 276 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:08,840 And even locally, I think just like homelessness and inflation and, you know, petty theft that 277 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,680 can be at a CVS stores. 278 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,680 Those are the things that like everyday people really feel in their pocketbook and worry 279 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:16,680 about. 280 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,520 And we don't really talk about climate unless potentially we have like a flood sweep through 281 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,640 a neighborhood, which we did. 282 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,760 But how quickly we moved on to other things. 283 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,440 It's just the human nature, unfortunately. 284 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,280 But it's up to us journalists to keep it, you know, keep it in the, keep it in everyone's 285 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,320 headspace as much as we can. 286 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,440 And that's why I think you probably do this. 287 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,600 And I do this too, we try to like make those connections when relevant within a story, 288 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,760 even if it's not about climate change. 289 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:51,920 I make sure to mention like I'm talking about air pollution related to like talk about fossil 290 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:52,920 fuels. 291 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,440 I always mentioned like, you know, fossil like planet warming fossil fuels is what I 292 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,280 will say instead of just fossil fuels. 293 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,640 Or if I talk about climate change, I'll say human caused climate change to like on repeat, 294 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,200 with that message out to the public over and over again, that, you know, these those two 295 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,920 things are related. 296 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,920 Why is it important to you to say human caused climate change? 297 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,840 Because a lot of people get confused, I think, like there is a certain sector of the population 298 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,120 that doesn't want to like talk about climate change or be kind of on that. 299 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,800 They don't want to live in that climate crisis mindset. 300 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,200 And one excuse, which is still relevant is to say, well, the climate has always been 301 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,420 changing. 302 00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:40,000 So why, you know, why you call it a climate change now? 303 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,720 And that's true. 304 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:48,320 The natural earth unaffected by humans, and our use of fossil fuels changed on regular 305 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,800 timescales, we had ice ages, and then those with melts, and we would have flooding, warm 306 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,800 periods. 307 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:01,080 It's important, though, to say human cause because we are part of the industrial revolution 308 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,760 still last 200 years, you've been burning fossil fuels, which puts CO2 in the atmosphere, 309 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,760 which form the planet. 310 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:15,720 And that's warming the planet on timescales like unseen by the, you know, billion plus 311 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,520 year history of the earth. 312 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,000 And so we need to. 313 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,480 So that's why I say human caused climate change, because I'm specifically talking about the 314 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:32,420 climate change that we are ourselves, basically, like speeding up with our activities. 315 00:22:32,420 --> 00:22:39,400 So it's my way of like trying to sort of succinctly say all of that in a short terminology and 316 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,000 cause people to think too, like, why am I saying human caused climate change, instead 317 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,000 of just climate change? 318 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,880 Like, there's a reason. 319 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,180 And maybe it will cause people to think a little bit about it. 320 00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:55,280 It just enrages people and I get emails about that. 321 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,400 What makes you really passionate regarding the climate crisis? 322 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,400 Corey, if you would like to go first. 323 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,400 Sure. 324 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,560 I don't consider myself a very outdoorsy person. 325 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,880 I'm not, I don't really like camping very much. 326 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,740 And I'm not sort of also necessarily like, I don't always feel like I have this like 327 00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:21,720 deep connection with nature or wildlife. 328 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:29,080 And I think that I bring that up because I feel like that for a long time has been a 329 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:36,160 really sort of the dominant narrative of the environmental movement broadly, but also, 330 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,840 you know, just a very big part of environmental journalism. 331 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:46,840 And I don't think that, like, I don't say that to say that sort of, you know, movements 332 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,880 to save like the burrowing owls aren't important. 333 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,400 I think that's incredibly important. 334 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Biodiversity is important. 335 00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:02,640 And I do, on a very fundamental level, think that our relationship with nature is broken, 336 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:12,000 especially in this country where kind of the idea of sort of dominance over nature has 337 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:19,600 been a very kind of foundational idea from sort of the early years of the country and 338 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,520 tied in with other foundational ideas like white supremacy. 339 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:31,480 But I think that at the same time, I personally, I feel like what I'm always drawn to more 340 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:39,360 or so in reporting and in stories is just kind of trying to focus in on how climate 341 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:44,920 change, the climate crisis, other environmental issues are affecting people and people's lives, 342 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:50,080 and especially people who, you know, haven't necessarily have been ignored by the press 343 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,720 or haven't been listened to or have been spoken for. 344 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:59,360 Because I think that while all of these different facets of how the world is being affected 345 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:07,160 by the climate crisis are important, there, I think there's also something that is wrong 346 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:13,240 with an approach that where, you know, foundations and donors are pouring millions of dollars 347 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:20,440 into saving individual, these individual species of animal, for example, like the burrowing 348 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:28,700 owl, and not thinking about their neighbors and not thinking about people who are also 349 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:34,560 facing the impacts that are currently happening of the climate crisis, extreme heat, flooding, 350 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,440 all of these different things that are having a real impact on people's lives right now. 351 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:46,040 And so that's where I try to, I think that's where I'm most drawn to personally. 352 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:53,160 But that's also, I think, where I try to focus my reporting as much as possible. 353 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:59,320 And so that, I think that just in sort of the day to day work, that looks like a lot of, as much as I can, 354 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:05,280 reporting on environmental justice issues and indigenous sovereignty. 355 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,280 Those are sort of some of the main reporting threads that have come up, especially in my 356 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,400 work in the Imperial Valley, which is where a lot of my climate and environment reporting 357 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:15,480 takes place. 358 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:21,160 Those sort of specific threads are what I try to focus on. 359 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:27,960 Yeah, there's almost too many interesting pieces of the climate crisis to tell. 360 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,280 I think what the work Corey is doing in Imperial Valley is awesome. 361 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,440 And it's a very unforgiving landscape to be at reporting in. 362 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:41,360 I've done some mostly like Colorado River centric reporting out there and it's, it is 363 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:47,640 incredibly hot and it's insane to see people out there like harvesting. 364 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,560 There's a huge farming economy out there, served by the Colorado River and has been 365 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,280 treated as a very extractive place. 366 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:02,480 It's been mined, it's been farmed, it's, they have like a natural lake that's drying up 367 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,600 and the air pollution is really gnarly. 368 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,080 I myself usually have to carry an inhaler when I go out there. 369 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,240 And it, this whole concept of like lithium being the new thing to take from Imperial 370 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,000 Valley is just sort of a repetitive story. 371 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:28,600 Currently, the biggest sources of lithium are in like the deserts of Chile or Bolivia. 372 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:36,360 And it's largely American or Chinese corporations extracting that lithium and globally selling 373 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:43,560 it for the renewable energy boom, which has its own externalities, its own climate footprint 374 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,600 that's like very undercounted and a lot of these places that they're mining are indigenous 375 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,840 lands next to sort of poor communities who then rely on those jobs but don't really receive 376 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,320 much benefit from it. 377 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,200 So it's just sort of like interesting to see it land closer to home in California, which 378 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:08,960 is better for like the local economy and it's better to have everything you need to make 379 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,360 green energy happen. 380 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:17,440 Like it creates batteries on US soil in terms of just like cutting back on the global transport 381 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,920 of that kind of material and all of the just, there's so much to like manufacturing that 382 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,880 is globally that's affecting the climate crisis as well. 383 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,320 But it's interesting to see that kind of be repeated in Imperial Valley and it's important 384 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,480 that Corey is doing that work and covering it. 385 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,440 MacKenzie, I would love to hear about what you're passionate about regarding the climate 386 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,440 crisis. 387 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,400 Climate change is a bummer to talk about and it creates a lot of anxiety for people and 388 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:47,800 they just feel like there's nothing. 389 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,960 I think that's another reason why people turn from the topic because they feel like there's 390 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,800 nothing they can do. 391 00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:02,600 So if I could like create my own beat, it would be to cover just all the crazy, interesting 392 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,320 technological ideas that we have. 393 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,400 Those also including like natural solutions, but we know that we're going to have to, we 394 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,200 can't like largely re-engineer the economy without fossil fuels. 395 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:20,160 We have to come up with some interesting stuff to try to combat what we've done to the atmosphere 396 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:25,400 already and it would be really interesting to like cover those kinds of topics like, 397 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:32,320 you know, we, you know, geoengineering, like we create rain in certain places with geoengineering. 398 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,960 It's highly controversial. 399 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,800 I think I mentioned like, maybe I didn't in the beginning, but what first got me interested 400 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,880 in climate change was this concept of like, I read about National Geographic. 401 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,440 They were like, oh, we're going to put mirrors in space to reflect the sun's rays away from 402 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,440 the planet. 403 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,280 And I just was like, blew my mind. 404 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,000 I was like, what else could possibly be a solution? 405 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,920 And so, and I also just wanted to say a lot like Corey, like admitting basically that 406 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:05,800 he's not that rugged, like outdoorsy, you know, camping, like environment reporter guy, 407 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,680 because there is like some kind of trope there that all of, anyone who's an environment reporter 408 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:18,160 is like some like wacko, like liberal, you know, like outdoorsy person, which I will 409 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,720 say that I'm probably leaning in that direction a little bit more, but I think we need, I 410 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,840 think we need like urban climate journalists or like to kind of like generate maybe some 411 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:37,520 like urban climate crisis minded people, because there's plenty to talk about within cities, 412 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,760 like urban heat waves and urban heat islands. 413 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,600 And, you know, we're going to get into social justice issues and climate justice issues. 414 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,200 And it's like, that's where a lot of that is unfolding is in those, you know, highly 415 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,340 populated cities. 416 00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:59,180 So yeah, I could go on and on, but I know you have a lot more questions we want to tackle. 417 00:30:59,180 --> 00:31:03,720 For us that aren't too familiar with climate related terms, how would you both explain 418 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,040 terms like climate denialism and corporate greenwashing to your readers? 419 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,320 MacKenzie, do you want to take that first? 420 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,320 Sure. 421 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,320 Okay. 422 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,680 Climate denialism, I feel like you can kind of surmise what climate denialism is from 423 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:26,080 the term, but it, I mean, it mostly just means to me, people that I would assume just say 424 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,120 the climate change, human caused climate change is not happening. 425 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,120 It's not real. 426 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,120 It's something natural. 427 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:37,960 It's something that is manufactured by the media, more like kind of dipping into that 428 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,560 conspiracy theories sort of realm. 429 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,880 And corporate greenwashing is something that I've done a little bit more reporting on. 430 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:53,400 It's just absolutely flagrant out there right now because it's like sexy to be a producer 431 00:31:53,400 --> 00:32:00,960 of a product that is biodegradable and recyclable and like compostable. 432 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,960 But when you dig into these products, a lot of times, especially ones that are like coming 433 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:11,140 from plastics companies or like claim to be some kind of recyclable plastic, we are learning 434 00:32:11,140 --> 00:32:17,440 right now, like in the news more and more that you really can't recycle plastic. 435 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:25,360 And it's just another way of monetizing fossil fuels because plastic is generated from oil. 436 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:33,200 So there's a vested interest in the plastics world to greenwash that product and make it 437 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,840 seem okay and make people feel okay about buying it. 438 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,880 And you see that everywhere now and it's like anytime I see a product that's being advertised 439 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,840 as compostable or whatever, I always take a picture of it and kind of try to find out 440 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:50,840 as much as I can. 441 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,520 Because once you start digging into some of the research, it's like, remember I found 442 00:32:54,520 --> 00:33:03,000 a cup or a container and I dug into like, I tried to find the research paper that backed 443 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,520 their claim that it would break down and compost and go back to become earth again. 444 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,400 And it was based on like one paper out of Brazil where they had put the container in 445 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:22,680 the most ideal perfect conditions ever and where it would never probably end up if you 446 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,780 threw it away in a trash can. 447 00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:27,920 And it broke down in like a year. 448 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,140 And it's like, okay, now we... 449 00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:35,240 And then we stamp a claim on that says, oh, it's biodegradable. 450 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,480 There's so much there that needs unpacking. 451 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,280 And that's kind of how I would explain that to readers. 452 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,040 But Corey, if you want to add on to that. 453 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,040 I don't know if I have much to... 454 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,040 I mean, I totally agree with everything that MacKenzie said. 455 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:55,160 I guess I would just say that I think it's also part of our job is to try and kind of 456 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,920 sort of dodge around those terms as much as possible. 457 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:05,400 I think like the terms like greenwashing and climate denialism are certainly useful to 458 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,480 put a label on things and to kind of point out patterns of behavior. 459 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:20,120 But I also think that our job is also to try and explain as much as possible how these 460 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:27,480 things are happening and what's happening without getting too bogged down in the more 461 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:37,640 complicated language to try and just be clear and be direct and to not get too in the weeds. 462 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,720 For instance, we could say instead of corporate greenwashing, we could just say this company 463 00:34:41,720 --> 00:34:42,720 lied about... 464 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:43,720 Exactly. 465 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:49,360 That would be more understandable for somebody like me. 466 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:55,720 I agree with Corey too, that these terms are often more politicized ones that maybe journalists 467 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:58,640 wouldn't naturally use in a story to describe something. 468 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,200 And it is certainly our role to be more explanatory. 469 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:09,240 But yeah, we do face having to break that down sometimes. 470 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:18,080 We have an example of climate denialism with us right now to quote an Inside Climate News 471 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,720 report. 472 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:25,080 Exxon conducted cutting edge climate research decades ago and then pivoted to work at the 473 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,640 forefront of climate denial, manufacturing doubt about the scientific consensus that 474 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,440 its own scientist had confirmed. 475 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:40,160 So how would you tackle this kind of disinformation or false information intended to mislead? 476 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,160 You mean lies? 477 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,160 Yeah. 478 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,160 Yeah. 479 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,160 Go ahead, Corey. 480 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:55,000 Well, I guess I was just going to say, I mean, in some ways, I think that yes, I mean, that's 481 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:02,880 clearly, just like probably the original example of greenwashing or of lying about climate 482 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,880 change. 483 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,640 I mean, that research is probably some of the earliest that proves that climate change 484 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,000 is happening. 485 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,880 In some ways, I do sort of feel like also though, like, wow, that... 486 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,040 I mean, this company did this research, found that climate change was happening, like had 487 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,400 it in writing, and then decided to hide it. 488 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,720 But in some ways, that feels like exactly the kind of problem that journalism and investigative 489 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,840 journalism is designed to uncover. 490 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,240 Somebody was meant to get leaked that paper or somebody was meant to find that paper in 491 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:45,960 like a recycling bin or like get it handed to them in a folder in like a parking garage. 492 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:52,840 But what to me feels like the more, the larger question now is almost like, what happens 493 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,240 when you have all of this research out in the open? 494 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:02,000 All of this research that's saying that climate change is happening and is going to be this 495 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,000 incredibly... 496 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,320 It is going to upend the lives of so many people around the world. 497 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,180 And still, you have so many people who are turning away from that reality. 498 00:37:13,180 --> 00:37:20,640 I think that that to me is sort of what almost feels like a more insurmountable question 499 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:32,120 that all of us and also that journalists especially have to consider and are struggling to navigate 500 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:38,800 now because when there's this sort of... 501 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,840 There are so many questions about... 502 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:50,480 When it's become so easy to raise doubt or to cast doubt on what is a scientific consensus, 503 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,400 for example, I think that that is really... 504 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,680 Something that is incredibly serious and something that we're really going to have to figure 505 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:05,440 out how to deal with, but that I feel like so many journalists are still trying to figure 506 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,760 out how to approach. 507 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,280 McKenney, did you want to add to that? 508 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:16,040 No, I was just trying to find an article that I had read a while back that around the same 509 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:24,960 time there was a key moment in American history where I think it was around the 70s where 510 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:31,040 we had some report like this and they had a panel of scientists and the US government 511 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,360 saying it's time to call it now that climate change is happening. 512 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,880 We need to really ramp back on fossil fuels. 513 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,960 In the end, these scientists fell to political pressure and held off and said, no, I want 514 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:46,960 to go back to the 70s. 515 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:47,960 We're good for a while. 516 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:48,960 It's not clear. 517 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,480 We don't have enough evidence, that kind of thing. 518 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,000 To me, it's not really... 519 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,320 That blew my mind, but also wasn't very surprising. 520 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:07,760 It's not really surprising that fossil fuel companies like Exxon, they of course probably 521 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,240 hire cutting edge climate researchers or climate scientists. 522 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:18,120 They hire these people so that they have as much information as possible about what exactly 523 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:25,440 they're doing with their activities. 524 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,080 It's not a shocker that they knew this. 525 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:36,720 Then obviously, it's not within their business model to try to combat their own concept of 526 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:37,720 making money. 527 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:43,800 But yeah, just like Corey said, it's like we as reporters, it's our role to try to find 528 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,880 and hold accountable these companies that we all know, know this is a problem, but how 529 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:49,880 can we prove it? 530 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:57,640 There's been local evidence of local California natural gas companies that were found, they 531 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:05,760 were caught using rate payer money to fight against different energies that were in the 532 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,080 way of their own profit margins. 533 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,520 This happens all the time. 534 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,560 It's really not surprising that we knew back in the 70s that this was a problem. 535 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:17,720 We knew even earlier than that. 536 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:22,600 In fact, we knew the concept of climate change and how it worked back in 1856. 537 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,400 It was like a woman, Eunice Newton Foote, had discovered how the greenhouse... 538 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,200 She coined greenhouse gases as a term and discovered and demonstrated the effects of 539 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,200 CO2 on the atmosphere. 540 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,280 It's always been a battle of business versus science. 541 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,280 1850s? 542 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,280 That's crazy. 543 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,840 I did not know that. 544 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:53,200 To add on to what you said about both of you being journalists and your roles as journalists, 545 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,480 we know obviously you have an obligation to your audiences. 546 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Have you seen reporting these issues lead to climate action? 547 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,880 I don't know. 548 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:06,680 I would say some of the most...as a journalist, you always hope that your reporting, especially 549 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,280 if it's investigative or something, can lead to a better outcome for the climate. 550 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,760 I would say there are little victories here and there. 551 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:26,360 There was an instance where Mayor Taglorio of San Diego, he had promised...as an administration 552 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,200 held up that they were going to put money towards climate equity projects, so money 553 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,880 in areas of town that have historically been underserved or redlined. 554 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,800 Then lo and behold, his budget cut that funding. 555 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,800 We put that into a story and blasted it. 556 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:50,240 There was enough political pressure to City Council reverse that move and put the money 557 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:51,240 back. 558 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:58,080 It takes having journalists out there in the first place. 559 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:03,960 It takes supporting organizations like KPBS and Voice of San Diego, which are all donation-based. 560 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,000 We rely on the public to support us. 561 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:13,920 They're not advertising, for instance, but we have to be out there watching these very 562 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,440 small...these kind of decisions can happen all the time. 563 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,040 We have to be out there to keep watch and hold them accountable when it does happen. 564 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,560 I don't know if, Corey, you want to share your own example? 565 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:34,280 I think probably the best example that I can think of isn't necessarily...I don't know 566 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,680 if it's necessarily one that I could say where change happened, but I think it's one that's 567 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,520 still happening right now. 568 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:48,680 Like MacKenzie, like you said, it takes reporters to be there. 569 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:58,280 It takes journalists to be there and paying attention to have a good sense of when there's 570 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:08,840 something wrong happening and when people might be able to act together to change it. 571 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:14,680 The Imperial Valley is really, again, one of the clearest cases where I've seen over 572 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:26,400 the last year just a very strong kind of movement where a lot of people, especially younger 573 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:36,400 people...these are organizers and young politicians and people who are sort of just concerned 574 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:42,080 about kind of, again, what's going to happen with the future of the lithium industry and 575 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,200 what that's going to mean for the Valley. 576 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:54,040 They have been sort of in lots of different pockets, sort of a very active voice in the 577 00:43:54,040 --> 00:44:03,560 conversation in going to the powerful elected officials like the County Board of Supervisors 578 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:11,080 and going to Sacramento to speak with state legislatures, with state lawmakers, and going 579 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:19,960 to these companies, which are multi-billion dollar companies, Berkshire Hathaway, Controlled 580 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:30,640 Thermal Resources, major energy companies based around the world, and demanding that 581 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:37,880 they get a seat at the table and get to make these requests and get to guide the future 582 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:46,080 of the industry and have some decision-making power in how that industry should grow in 583 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,720 the region. 584 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:52,520 I think there's still, I should say, there's still a lot of open questions about the development 585 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,000 of lithium in California and in the Imperial Valley. 586 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,160 There are still a lot of those questions still haven't been answered. 587 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,440 So I think that there's a lot of, that's part of why there's so much uncertainty. 588 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:14,600 But I will say that just over the last year, seeing that, seeing how many people are willing 589 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:25,360 to just get up and say that they feel like they want to make sure that this is fair to 590 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,520 them has been really moving. 591 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,520 Yeah. 592 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:36,720 That's definitely really exciting for me to hear, especially as someone who's going to 593 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:41,440 college and still learning about the climate crisis. 594 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:48,640 And I feel like, Alex, do you agree, like hearing about how people our age are advocating 595 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,480 for change, especially when it comes to climate justice? 596 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,800 Oh, 100%. 597 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,880 I think it's important that we're learning about this. 598 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:03,000 I think it's important that we have a podcast about climate action. 599 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:10,440 Because again, like I said earlier, I hear climate change all the time, but obviously, 600 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:16,800 we don't really, we're not informed or educated and we're getting all of our information from 601 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,120 TikTok or Instagram. 602 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:25,800 And we're not taking the time to see things like you do and your job with KPBS and Voice 603 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:26,800 of San Diego. 604 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,200 So I definitely agree. 605 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,200 I think it's super important. 606 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:35,220 I would just mention too that I feel like even talking to a reporter about your concerns 607 00:46:35,220 --> 00:46:38,560 over climate change is a climate action. 608 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:44,080 So it doesn't have to be, for instance, and climate action can even be as much as like 609 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:51,360 choosing to put your food waste in the compost bin, taking the bus, if you can find a convenient 610 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,760 way to do that, choose that over your car. 611 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,400 That's how I kind of get through the day and get through climate anxiety myself is just 612 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:04,200 try to focus on the little triumphs everywhere when it comes to climate change. 613 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,360 Because it is sort of like a collective effect, right? 614 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,920 If everybody made a few changes to their lifestyle. 615 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:18,600 Granted, the bulk of the blame for climate changes on fossil fuel companies and the wider 616 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,280 economy we can't totally control. 617 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,200 But it does help to kind of take smaller actions throughout your day. 618 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,640 I definitely agree. 619 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:32,200 I take public transportation practically everywhere. 620 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,880 The Sprinter and the Breeze buses are like my best friends. 621 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:43,680 We also wanted to talk a bit more about youth engagement in climate justice because we're 622 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,060 college students and many of our listeners are as well. 623 00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:54,960 So we're wondering if you had anything else to say about why youth engagement is important. 624 00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:00,000 It's probably the most important thing because young people, I mean, as the generations go, 625 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,120 I was once maybe the young people, right? 626 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:11,480 To another age group, as we go through time, the climate, the planet is going to be warming 627 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:18,400 and we'll be experiencing more extreme effects, more extreme weather, et cetera, et cetera. 628 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,120 And so as the generations move on, we're going to, those generations are going to be dealing 629 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:23,600 with worse stuff. 630 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:30,400 So I think the youth seems more engaged than ever on this topic on climate change. 631 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,080 That's just my view of it. 632 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:39,920 I could be wrong, but I actually talked to some young climate activists. 633 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,320 I read a biweekly newsletter called the Environment Report. 634 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:48,360 I just kind of gave them the mic and said, what do you guys ticked off about? 635 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,800 What do you think we need to do? 636 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,040 So that gives me some hope. 637 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:59,120 But I think the other thing too is I really hope that the youth engagement translates 638 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:04,680 to political, like speaking with your vote and getting involved in politics and paying 639 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:05,680 attention. 640 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:10,440 I think there's a tendency to tune out, especially since there's a lot of distractions. 641 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:16,120 I myself am addicted to TikTok, for instance, so I understand what's going on a little bit 642 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,120 there. 643 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:24,240 But some young people I talked to this last election, they were probably leaning Democrat 644 00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:28,280 and they decided they didn't feel like their vote mattered, so they didn't vote at all. 645 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:35,960 And that's one very certain way to make your vote not matter, is to not even add your vote. 646 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:46,080 And to me, that's kind of a waste of your time because it still does count, I believe. 647 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:51,480 At least you can see it reflected in the popular vote and definitely in local elections. 648 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:57,840 If you do care about where you live and you want to be engaged in local climate decisions, 649 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:05,320 it's all dictated by specific, very careful vote counting. 650 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:11,080 And we had some pretty, the city of San Diego at least had some pretty important tax increases 651 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:12,080 that they wanted to pass. 652 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,200 I know that sounds boring, but a lot of the money was supposed to be used to fix flooding 653 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,920 stormwater systems that wiped out entire neighborhoods, for instance. 654 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:28,440 Or there's other climate things that that money desperately is desired for, and that 655 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,320 didn't pass and it was like a razor thin margin. 656 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:37,720 And maybe if we had more engaged 18-year-olds and above voting and caring about these things, 657 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:45,160 caring about transit, this huge tax or this bond measure to pay for better public transit, 658 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:50,180 which it's very expensive, there's not a ton of money for it. 659 00:50:50,180 --> 00:50:51,920 And it failed too on a razor thin margin. 660 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,520 So I feel like the youth are kind of, or what I see the youth caring about these days is 661 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:06,760 sort of losing to the standard boomer era interests, which are very different. 662 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,000 They care about different things. 663 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,080 And so I really hope that college students are paying attention and at least translate 664 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:18,960 if you're pissed off about the climate, use your powers that you do have to make a difference. 665 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,840 Yeah, I totally agree. 666 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,520 And I would just say that, I mean, I think young people, talking to young people about 667 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:32,560 this as a young person always makes me more hopeful. 668 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:38,160 And I mean, I entered journalism in the era of the global climate strikes and sort of 669 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,440 the youth, a really strong youth movement around climate change and so around fighting 670 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:44,660 climate change. 671 00:51:44,660 --> 00:51:52,320 So I think that there's a lot to really be hopeful about there too. 672 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,760 And you know, it makes sense because like MacKenzie said, young people are the ones 673 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,880 who have the most stake in this. 674 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:05,800 We all and everyone who's younger than us are the ones who are going to have to live 675 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,360 in the world that all of this is shaping. 676 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,520 Yeah, that's so true. 677 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:18,520 In addition to your news outlets, what other climate information resources do you guys 678 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,640 recommend to our listeners? 679 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:28,180 There's some good, there's more and more like national focused climate news outlets 680 00:52:28,180 --> 00:52:32,520 like InsideClimateNews.org is one. 681 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:37,160 They basically exclusively talk about climate change through like science, politics, justice 682 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,120 and health, clean energy. 683 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:45,920 Canary Media is another one that mostly covers the clean energy space. 684 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,080 They do a really good job. 685 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,640 There's also a site called Industry Dive. 686 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:58,160 It's pretty nerdy, but like they cover like pretty specific topics like there's like Waste 687 00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:05,440 Dive, which covers the state of the like solid waste industry, or they have like Utility 688 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:11,760 Dive version, which covers electric and gas markets and stuff like that. 689 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,600 Those are all really important topics related to climate change. 690 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,440 Yeah, I would totally back those up. 691 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:25,080 I would also add maybe Grist is an outlet that I think does a lot of really great reporting, 692 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,000 really great climate focused reporting. 693 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:34,520 I also think, I would just say that it's always helpful to just keep an eye out and sort of 694 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,480 if you like read a story or see someone talking about climate change and you like what they 695 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,640 say, like to just follow what they do and follow their work. 696 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,360 Some of my favorite writers about the climate change and environmental issues are Sarah 697 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,000 Kaplan and Daryl Fears of the Washington Post. 698 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:58,720 Daryl Fears until recently was a long term, long time reporter at the Washington Post 699 00:53:58,720 --> 00:53:59,880 and recently took a buyout. 700 00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:06,120 But I think that just, you know, there are so many people, so many incredibly smart and 701 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,200 talented and dedicated people who are working on this. 702 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:13,000 So I think if there's somebody whose work you gravitate towards too, it doesn't hurt 703 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,520 to kind of just keep an eye on that too. 704 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:18,920 Thanks for sharing those cool resources. 705 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,640 I'm sure our listeners and us will check them out. 706 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:28,160 For every episode, we like to ask our guests to suggest a climate action our listeners 707 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,560 can take to combat climate change. 708 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:31,560 What do you both suggest? 709 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,760 Okay, I'm going to go with an individual action. 710 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:40,840 I know that like MacKenzie brought up earlier, I mean, I think that's it's a really, you 711 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:47,400 know, it's a slippery slope when so much of climate change is or so much of the contributions 712 00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,560 to climate change are sort of happened at a very large level, more so than one person 713 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:53,560 can change. 714 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:59,960 I'm going to say you can you can always eat less beef or eat no beef. 715 00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:05,080 I mean, you know, a lot of it's something that most people can do. 716 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:12,000 And it is something that, you know, out of out of all kinds of different actions doesn't 717 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,400 necessarily cost you more, might cost you less, might be healthier for you. 718 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:24,560 And also, you know, it's a it's something that will measurably transform your your carbon 719 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:25,560 footprint. 720 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,400 You know, some studies have suggested that that can even cut down the amount of carbon 721 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,160 emissions that your diet produces by as much as a third or more. 722 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,440 So, yeah, it's that's that's what I'll that's what I'll recommend. 723 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,880 I think people can do that. 724 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,560 What about you, MacKenzie? 725 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:51,760 I'm going to go with the largely unpopular suggestion of taking public transit. 726 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,480 It's like not cool in San Diego for some reason, but like if you go to like New York or San 727 00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:02,840 Francisco or it's like very kind of in in vogue to either use your legs, a bicycle or 728 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:03,840 take transit. 729 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,120 But I mean, it's like if you're going to the bars and you've got a bus stop that can get 730 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,920 you like someone of the way, I think it might make sense to do that in San Diego. 731 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:18,000 We have like nice weather walking is it's not that hard. 732 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,240 And it really the largest source of the greenhouse gas emissions locally, San Diego County is 733 00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:27,660 driving driving is like the biggest problem here. 734 00:56:27,660 --> 00:56:32,840 And I know that the city is the county itself is not set up well for transit, like very 735 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,400 little of California is. 736 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:40,680 But it's like when people start demanding it to be better and they like want to use 737 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:46,840 it, that's how that's how it gets built, honestly. 738 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,920 So at least if you come downtown, you can definitely like park and like take a bus into 739 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,400 the city into the central city and like take it back instead of trying to like drive around 740 00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,120 and find a parking spot. 741 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:05,080 That might be just like a very niche pet peeve of mine. 742 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,080 That's what I do when I go to downtown. 743 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,040 It saves a lot of time. 744 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:10,040 Yeah. 745 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,040 Nice. 746 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,480 I'll have to spread the word more about the Sprinter. 747 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:14,480 I think it's fabulous. 748 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,040 But yeah, what do you guys have in San Marcos for transit? 749 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:23,200 Like what's the we have the Sprinter, which is the train. 750 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,480 And then we have Breeze, which is the bus. 751 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:27,480 And yeah, that's it. 752 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,480 Those are the main ones. 753 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,480 Those are the main ones. 754 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:30,480 The bus. 755 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:31,480 Okay, the Sprinter. 756 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:36,840 So yeah, there's like some cool train vibes in San Diego that are sort of under the radar. 757 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:41,160 Like I like to take a train from San Diego to LA, even though it sucks because once you're 758 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,660 in LA, you usually need a car. 759 00:57:43,660 --> 00:57:44,660 But I made it happen. 760 00:57:44,660 --> 00:57:45,660 I made it work. 761 00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:50,000 If you've got people in LA that pick you up, it's so much better than, you know, being 762 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,000 stuck in traffic. 763 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,000 So definitely. 764 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,000 I completely agree. 765 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,140 And those are some really sick approaches to climate action. 766 00:57:56,140 --> 00:57:58,640 So folks listening at home, please try them out. 767 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,520 Thank you so much, Corrine McKenzie. 768 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,640 We appreciate your efforts as journalists and the stories you take on are incredibly 769 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:05,640 important. 770 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,120 It was so cool learning about how you two are reporting the climate crisis. 771 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:14,200 And for our listeners, you can find Corey Suzuki on KPBS and McKenzie Elmer on Voice 772 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:15,200 of San Diego. 773 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,360 Yeah, I just want to thank you guys for like elevating journalism and journalists because 774 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:24,360 it's like, I don't know, it's very kind of rare to be honored in this sort of way or 775 00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,640 like to have journalism be like supported. 776 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,040 It's really important to us too. 777 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,920 So you know, we're all part of this community as well. 778 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,160 And we just want things to get better. 779 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,160 So thank you. 780 00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,160 Thank you. 781 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,160 Thank you. 782 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:38,160 Thank you both. 783 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:39,160 I'm so glad we could make this happen. 784 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,360 Want to hear more from Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast? 785 00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,880 Be sure to check us out. 786 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,880 Listen to Climate to Action wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on our socials 787 00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,080 at climate to action. 788 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:57,240 That's at climate to action on Instagram and climate numeral to action on TikTok. 789 00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,920 Visit for updates, behind the scenes content and more. 790 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:04,760 Finally, climate to action wants to remind you to take climate action. 791 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,520 Do a little climate digging and have fun learning. 792 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:35,520 Until next time, this is Alex and Saturn from Climate to Action signing off.