1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,480 Hey, this is Climate to Action, a CSU San Marcos student podcast focused on climate action, 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,600 indigenous knowledge, and climate justice. 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,600 I'm Azaria. 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,600 And I'm Anali. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,760 Before we begin, we'd like to acknowledge that CSUSM is located on the traditional territory 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,800 of the Luceno-Payom Covicham people. 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,400 The university and surrounding areas are still home to the six federally recognized bands 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:36,360 of La Jolla, Pala, Pauma, Pechanga, Rincon, and Sobova-Luceno-Poyom-Covicham people. 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:42,320 And this land remains the shared space among the Cupeno, Cumiay, and E-Pai peoples. 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:54,320 So again, welcome to Climate to Action. 11 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,160 And that today's episode is focused on the effects of factory farming on global warming. 12 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,480 We've invited Rowdy Keeler, senior manager of education outreach with New Roots Institute 13 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:05,480 to talk with us. 14 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,320 Rowdy, thank you for being here with us today. 15 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:10,680 Oh my gosh, the pleasure is all mine. 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:11,680 Yay! 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,680 Rowdy, can you tell us a bit about yourself and your area of work? 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,680 Yeah, my name's Rowdy. 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,600 That's my real name before anybody starts thinking that I made it up for funsies because 20 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,760 I certainly did not do that. 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,880 I'm from the great state of Ohio, the birthplace of aviation, and I've been in this movement 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:38,840 to shine a big light on factory farming for about eight, nine years now. 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,080 Yeah, New Roots Institute, we do four things. 24 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,400 We educate, recruit, train, and place the next generation of leaders in the movement 25 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,880 to end this industry and reform our food system. 26 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:56,360 And so in addition to going to the classroom around San Diego County, I also get to oversee 27 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,720 and help the other educators that we have strategically placed around the country. 28 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:06,120 So that's a brief snippet of who I am and what we do. 29 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:07,120 That's amazing. 30 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,800 Why are you so passionate about educating as many people as you can about the truth 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,120 on factory farming? 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,400 Well, it's a great question. 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:21,200 And one of the primary reasons is that it touches on so many different issues. 34 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:28,200 And all of us humans were very multifaceted, multi-layered, like onion, some would say. 35 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,600 We care about a lot of different things. 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,080 Stop trying to make funny jokes. 37 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,080 They're funny. 38 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,080 They're funny. 39 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,080 Yeah. 40 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,600 I feel like that's just a straight rip off from Shrek too. 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,360 Anyways, we're multifaceted human beings. 42 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:46,360 We care about different issues. 43 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:47,960 And factory farming touches on so many of them. 44 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,760 So many social issues, environmental issues, health issues, ethical, philosophical issues, 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,080 factory farming is connected to them all. 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,800 And so as I decided, you know, my values as a human and how I wanted to engage with this 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:07,360 world, as I learned more about factory farming and animal agriculture, it became clear this 48 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,720 is where I wanted to focus my time and energy. 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:19,240 And yeah, it's been a wild ride thus far and an exciting time to be part of this movement, 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,240 for sure. 51 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,240 Really? 52 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,760 That's quite amazing. 53 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,280 So what is factory farming? 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,160 Large scale animal agriculture. 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,720 So they also call them concentrated animal feeding operations or CAFOs, sometimes called 56 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,360 industrialized animal agriculture. 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,520 We would argue it's the foundation of our food system, which we can talk about in a 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,520 little bit. 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:46,960 So it's really massive animal feeding operations. 60 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,240 And typically what kind of animals are raised in factory farms and for what products? 61 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,280 Yeah, there's a lot of variety depending on what part of the world that you're in. 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,280 So our expertise is really in the States. 63 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:08,480 And so we bring in some global data and we know some things about how other countries 64 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:13,680 factory farm, but we focus on factory farming for food products primarily in the United 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,280 States and North America. 66 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:20,680 So that's cows, chickens, pigs, ducks, lamb and sheep, rabbits. 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,080 I hope I don't forget anyone. 68 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,440 Gosh, that's going to make me look bad. 69 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:35,720 Those are the primary species that most people are familiar with. 70 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,520 And then what are some major concerns associated with factory farming practices? 71 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:46,080 Like we were kind of talking about earlier, there's so many social issues connected to 72 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,840 it at Cal State San Marcos. 73 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:53,040 I've had the pleasure of coming to talk to the gender studies course several times. 74 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,800 And there are definitely some gender issues as far as like, like it's a little more philosophical 75 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,600 and just food oriented, more so than just factory farming. 76 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,040 But there are some other connections to factory farming specifically. 77 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:10,520 So but the like the three or four main ones that folks focus on are animal welfare and 78 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,880 animal ethics, how the animals are actually treated in these facilities. 79 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,640 The workers who's working in these facilities, what demographics, how they're treated, the 80 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,800 impacts on our planet and the impacts on our health when we eat a lot of factory farm products. 81 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,320 So those are probably the four primary categories. 82 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,200 Yeah, I can see how it can intersect into all of those. 83 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,200 Yeah. 84 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:39,560 They start, they start crossing over, they start intersecting and it can be overwhelming 85 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:45,440 at times, but it can also be really empowering and fun to start drawing those connections. 86 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,000 Transitioning into the environmental impacts. 87 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:54,000 We've read that more than 780,000 square kilometers of land have been lost to deforestation 88 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,000 in the last 30 years, which has caused a loss of 2000 species. 89 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,080 How is this tied to factory farming? 90 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,000 That's a question. 91 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:10,840 And I am so curious how many of your listeners, how large of a swath of land that's 780,000 92 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:11,840 square kilometers. 93 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:12,840 Yeah, it sounds very huge. 94 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:18,680 Well, it's also using the metric system, which none of us know how to use in the United States. 95 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,680 Exactly. 96 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,480 And I know what style you're referencing and that's from Brazil specifically, or the 97 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:32,160 Amazon rainforest specifically, which is one of the primary regions of concern associated 98 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,560 with factory farming because Brazil is such a major producer of beef and America is one 99 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 of the major importers of that beef. 100 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,520 Brazil also produces a lot of soybeans on that land. 101 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:49,240 So to direct connection, there's a big corporation in Brazil called JBS. 102 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,680 They are a multi-billion dollar multinational corporation. 103 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,120 And for decades, the government in Brazil has been very friendly to this corporation 104 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:03,360 and others, you know, other companies there, but JBS is the primary culprit. 105 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,520 And the government for a long time has been very friendly with them because JBS makes 106 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,320 a lot of money for the country of Brazil. 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:14,920 And so they've been encouraged sometimes subtly and secretly and sometimes not so much to 108 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,600 get rid of the rainforest to make more room for cows because cows make more money, cows 109 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:20,600 make more money. 110 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:29,360 So there's a lot of good video and like hard-hitting investigative pieces about the deforestation 111 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,360 in the Amazon. 112 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,040 There are other industries that do it too, but the data that we cite shows that around 113 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:41,720 80% of the deforestation over the last 30 years or so is caused by cattle ranching. 114 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,920 Wow. 115 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,480 That number is huge. 116 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:46,480 80%. 117 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,280 So where do most large-scale factory farms tend to be located and how does this influence 118 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,640 the local ecosystems and communities? 119 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:55,640 Great question. 120 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:56,640 These are excellent questions. 121 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Thank you. 122 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Thank you. 123 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,480 It makes it more fun. 124 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,720 So let's go back to the United States. 125 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,520 We were just in Brazil, so we'll hop back to the U.S. and generally these facilities 126 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,840 are in rural areas and there are some logistical reasons for, you know, land is cheaper. 127 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,080 Generally speaking, there's more space. 128 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,200 You know, if you're in a densely populated metropolitan area, you can't build a large-scale 129 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,800 animal feeding operation. 130 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,480 So that's part of it. 131 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,680 We would identify a couple other main reasons that these facilities are generally in rural 132 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:30,680 areas. 133 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,240 One, out of sight, out of mind. 134 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,960 Factory farms do not like people to know how they operate, the true impacts of their industry, 135 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,720 their standard practices with how they treat their animals and workers. 136 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,200 And so if we were driving by it every day, which some people do, but not a lot of us, 137 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,280 we were seeing it and smelling it and hearing it, we might ask more questions and you might 138 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,680 affect their bottom line. 139 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:57,000 And also the communities that they pollute, so we know the levels of air pollution and 140 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,280 water pollution and all of these different ailments that come from that surrounding 141 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,160 factory farms, these communities have a harder time standing up for their rights and fighting 142 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,440 back because they are low income communities, generally marginalized minority communities 143 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:17,720 who don't have the resources to sue and stand up to multi-billion dollar corporations. 144 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:23,800 So that's how we see it generally unfolding in our country. 145 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,080 We also found that industrial animal agriculture uses an enormous amount of freshwater. 146 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,000 What can you tell us about that? 147 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:38,600 Yeah, this is a big one for everybody because freshwater is such a finite resource. 148 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:44,080 And we are taught these things like taking shorter showers and turning the sink off when 149 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,960 we brush our teeth to save water. 150 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,280 And sure, tens of millions of people do that. 151 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,400 Definitely it'll save some water. 152 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:56,840 But conservative data shows that a quarter pound beef patty takes about 450 gallons of 153 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:02,080 water, 450, which is about a month's worth of showers. 154 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,800 A lot can work for. 155 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,200 You got to grow their food, you got to keep them hydrated, you got to clean their facilities 156 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,880 where they live and where they're slaughtered and all of that takes an enormous amount of 157 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:11,880 freshwater. 158 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,880 Wow, that is huge. 159 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,720 A huge amount of freshwater, just like you said, can't believe it. 160 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,360 It doesn't even sound real. 161 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:19,360 Yeah. 162 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,680 I was at a high school the other day. 163 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:28,680 And when you're teaching ninth and tenth graders, you're not sure what's actually sticking 164 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:29,680 and what isn't. 165 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,800 But this kid gramps me in the hallway who had seen one of our lessons last semester or 166 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:34,800 something. 167 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,560 And he was able to grow 450 gallons for every. 168 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:38,560 The water. 169 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:39,560 Yeah. 170 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,120 But he was so excited that he remembered it and he wanted to bring it up when we talk 171 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,120 about it. 172 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:44,120 Yeah. 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,120 150. 174 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,320 Okay, so we're now going to be transitioning. 175 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:48,320 All right. 176 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:53,000 So a United Nations report identified animal agriculture as a major source of greenhouse 177 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,840 gas emissions and biodiversity loss. 178 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,440 To counter this, the factory farm industry funded friendly academics to downplay this 179 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:01,440 impact. 180 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,880 And this public trust and influence climate policies. 181 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,320 What do you think of academics promoting such a destructive industry? 182 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,800 I like what you phrased, because you said, what do you think? 183 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:18,960 And we work hard at New Roots to kind of keep our opinions out of this because, you know, 184 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:26,120 when wanting to be credible and wanting to be impactful, if we come in slinging our opinions 185 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,400 everywhere, then people get turned off by that. 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,120 So what do I think about academics? 187 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,720 Who are funded by big animal agriculture corporations? 188 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,640 I have some very strong thoughts and opinions on that. 189 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:46,480 But I think more generally, we should ask the listener, what do you think about influential 190 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:53,760 politicians, academics, whoever that are funded by these corporations and how trustworthy 191 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:59,800 is their data or the policy that they write that comes from this. 192 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,840 You would argue compromised data. 193 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,640 And it's the same on the other side. 194 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,480 If impossible meat funds a study and it's funded exclusively by impossible meat, you're 195 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,800 going to wonder like, what's the ulterior motive here? 196 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,800 How trustworthy is this data? 197 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,000 So we want to be fair when investigating the data. 198 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,920 We want the best data possible. 199 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:19,920 So yeah. 200 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,880 I think that's really admirable that encourages people. 201 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:24,880 Yeah. 202 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,400 And I feel like the facts are so unbelievable. 203 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,240 People might not even believe it, it's really sad. 204 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,240 Yeah. 205 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,480 Data is staggering sometimes. 206 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,280 Whether people believe it or not is one thing. 207 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,000 Whether they care about it is a whole other thing. 208 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Another thing. 209 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Yeah. 210 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,400 We've also read that burning fossil fuel produced for fertilizers for animal feed 211 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:50,880 crops may emit as much as 41 million metric tons of CO2 per year. 212 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,760 What other aspects of factory farming can contribute to greenhouse gas emissions? 213 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,760 Wow. 214 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,760 Again, these numbers, this is the thing with these huge... 215 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:00,760 It's a million. 216 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,760 Yeah, it's like huge. 217 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:02,760 They're mind blowing. 218 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:03,760 Yeah. 219 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:04,760 How much is that? 220 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,760 I don't actually know if that's a lot or a little. 221 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:07,760 Hard to grasp. 222 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:08,760 Yeah, it is. 223 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,760 There's a few other main ways. 224 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:17,320 And it gets kind of murky and difficult to measure just the true impact of animal agriculture. 225 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,360 So cows burp out methane and soda sheep and goats. 226 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,920 I forgot goats earlier when I was listing off the species. 227 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:24,920 The goats. 228 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:25,920 The goats. 229 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:26,920 I forgot the goats. 230 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,920 The goats. 231 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,160 And we were just at the animal sanctuary together where the goats were. 232 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,160 Oh, you were. 233 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,160 That was a really fun time. 234 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,160 Yeah, the goats were fun. 235 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,160 I highly recommend everyone. 236 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,360 Sorry, goats, that I forgot to. 237 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,520 Goats, sheep, cows, they burp out methane because of their digestive system, their 238 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,760 ruminants, giraffes are also ruminants. 239 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,600 They burp out methane. 240 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,600 So that methane is a huge source of greenhouse gases. 241 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,000 The deforestation is often calculated in there. 242 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,000 So the greenhouse gases that are actually emitted when you deforests a place like the 243 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,440 Amazon and also the greenhouse gases that are no longer sequestered. 244 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,680 But the way that we measure methane emissions is questionable. 245 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:13,880 And there is a scientist up in New York, Matthew Hayek, who's spearheading this new way of 246 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,320 measuring methane emissions. 247 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,200 And so the numbers are probably much higher. 248 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:24,880 Like conservatively, animal agriculture emits as much as like the entire transportation 249 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:25,880 sector globally. 250 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,920 I would say that's a conservative number. 251 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,560 So we'll see how the measurements evolve. 252 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,960 You know, but the long and short of it is that this is one of the primary sources of 253 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,440 greenhouse gas emissions on our planet. 254 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,840 And if we are serious and we care, there's that C word again, if we care about climate 255 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:42,840 change, we care. 256 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Yeah. 257 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,840 Yeah. 258 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,720 Expert autonomous, we are going to have to make major changes to our food system. 259 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Yeah, and fast, of course. 260 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,320 So earlier you did mention soy. 261 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,160 So how does soy, a common feed for farmed animals contribute to deforestation and global 262 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,160 warming? 263 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,600 I love talking about soy for so many reasons. 264 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,160 And I think it's so funny that we just call it soy because it's a soy. 265 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,160 It's a soy bean. 266 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,080 You know, like, you know, like we don't do that with many other beans. 267 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,440 Like, is there another bonzo? 268 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:13,440 Okay. 269 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,440 Carbons. 270 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:15,440 All right. 271 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,680 You got me fine. 272 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,000 That's a good example. 273 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000 Lime. 274 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,800 People just say, I'm going to eat a bunch of lima today. 275 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,640 Or I'm going to eat even garbanzo, like, at least make it plural. 276 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,360 I'm going to eat a bunch of soy's today. 277 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,400 I'm going to eat a bunch of garbanzos today. 278 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,240 My point is that soy gets a lot of negative connotations because it's like soy, soy, soy 279 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,840 products, soy isolates. 280 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:49,600 The first of all, most soy, as you said, is fed to livestock, like 6% of soybeans globally, 281 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,600 and like that. 282 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,040 Some of my numbers are ever-evolving. 283 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,640 So forgive me if they're a little bit off, but they're pretty accurate. 284 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,520 6% roughly, we see of soybeans are actually directly consumed by humans. 285 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,640 So most soy is fed back to livestock. 286 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:14,000 Like in Brazil, when they burn down the Amazon and raise cows, that pasture land eventually 287 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:23,080 becomes desertified and not suitable for raising cows anymore, so often they will plant soybeans 288 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,080 there instead. 289 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,920 And then they'll feed those soybeans, they'll export them around the world, or they'll feed 290 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,360 them to cattle operations, you know, closer by. 291 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,120 So soy does play a big part of it, but not because vegetarians or vegans or flexitarians 292 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,000 or whoever are eating so much soy, and that's causing deforestation. 293 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,120 It's primarily linked to livestock. 294 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:52,240 So what do you believe our future will look like if we continue our consumption of factory 295 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,360 firing products at the same pace we are today? 296 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,880 So there, so you're asking for my beliefs again, which is funny, you know, we think about 297 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:01,880 these things. 298 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:09,400 And my beliefs waver from day to day, from hour to hour, and my thoughts on how this 299 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,840 is all going to go down. 300 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,760 But again, add new roots, return to the experts and what they would tell us, you know, the 301 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:20,320 people who study sustainability all day every day for their lives. 302 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,800 And they're telling us that what we're already seeing is going to continue to happen and 303 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:25,800 get worse. 304 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,920 You know, we know certain things are linked to climate change. 305 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:38,800 We know, you know, climate change is being fueled by the human species. 306 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,440 So those impacts that a lot of us are aware of, some of us are much more painfully aware 307 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,960 of the impacts of climate change. 308 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,400 That's our future, because 80 billion land animals, which is about how many we raise 309 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:58,120 on the planet every year for our food system, is, you know, disastrous. 310 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,080 And again, I wouldn't say that's my opinion. 311 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,840 That seems to be pretty well-established science. 312 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,280 And that's not even talking about, you know, aquatic life and what's happening in our ocean. 313 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:13,800 And factory farmed fish, quote unquote, or aquaculture stuff. 314 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,360 It's not pretty, but, you know, there's a lot of progress and a lot of things to celebrate. 315 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:24,560 And then we maintain hope, maybe foolishly, but we maintain hope. 316 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,800 All right. 317 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,760 So sticking with that hope and what can be done. 318 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,800 So what can be done? 319 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,600 And let's just transition to alternatives and solutions. 320 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,880 So what needs to happen in order for us to transition away from factory farming? 321 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,240 Such a huge question. 322 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,640 Well, I'm going to say I love repetition. 323 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Anybody knows me knows I love repetition. 324 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,680 So at first people are going to have to care. 325 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,600 And it's hard to get people to care about these things, especially things like, you know, 326 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,640 our food, because it's so close to us. 327 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,640 I would argue. 328 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,920 Here's one of my opinions. 329 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:10,200 I would argue that it's similarly as sensitive as like religion or politics. 330 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,200 That's not a new institute stance. 331 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,360 That's a personal opinion. 332 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:18,400 That the only one I'll inject today, but I would argue that food is so sensitive that 333 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,640 when you start talking about it and challenging our consumption norms, people get really 334 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,960 defensive and they get really uncomfortable. 335 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,200 And I totally understand why there's a lot of understanding around that, but that doesn't 336 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,920 change the need to shift radically from such an animal based food system to a more plant 337 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,280 centric and plant focused food system. 338 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,640 And again, that is widely agreed upon from University of Oxford to Harvard to the IPCC 339 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,760 to Project Drawdown is a great resource on this. 340 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:54,000 And they're saying we have to shift and shift quickly towards a much higher percentage of 341 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,960 our food system being plant centric. 342 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:02,000 Do you think simply informing the public about factory farming contributions to global warming, 343 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,240 do you think that will encourage people to reduce the amount of animal products they 344 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,240 consume? 345 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,160 Well, we have data. 346 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:17,040 So at New Roots, we collect data and other organizations measure studying behavior change 347 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,040 is not new. 348 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:23,440 But we have specific data from the lessons that we're giving and it shows us about 80 349 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,120 percent of students ranging from ninth grade or eighth grade sometimes, but mostly ninth 350 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:33,400 grade to post-grad say that they will reduce or eliminate their consumption of animal products 351 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,840 after seeing one of our lessons. 352 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,560 So 80 percent is good. 353 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:37,560 Amazing. 354 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,560 Yeah. 355 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,960 And we know that there are always going to be people that will just never change and 356 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,280 they have their reasons and we might agree or disagree with them. 357 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,160 But so, you know, that 80 percent number is encouraging to me. 358 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,760 And I would, you know, if we didn't believe in the power of education, we wouldn't be 359 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,840 doing what we're doing. 360 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,520 We know that education works. 361 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,240 But yeah, not for everybody. 362 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,240 And if people are really dug in. 363 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,920 What facts do you think would encourage people to care about the reality of factory farming 364 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,520 and its effects on our climate? 365 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,880 Here's where it's helpful to know your audience. 366 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,160 And so if I know that I'm talking to an audience that's really concerned about, you know, workers' 367 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,160 rights issues. 368 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,120 And I would, I would, you know, focus in on how factory farms treat their workers and 369 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:29,000 some of the ways that are questionable, we'll say. 370 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,040 If I know I'm speaking to an environmental ethics course and presumably those people are 371 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,440 taking that class because they care about the environment, they'll focus on that. 372 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,160 So I mean, the freshwater thing is a big one. 373 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,840 The greenhouse gas emissions is a big one. 374 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,960 The United Nations study that you cited earlier says that animal agriculture is the number 375 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,440 one cause of biodiversity loss in species extension. 376 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,320 So that one sometimes is powerful. 377 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,760 Sometimes focusing on our own health impacts, depending, but like when you're 16, you don't 378 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,400 think about colon cancer in your 40s or 50s, you know. 379 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:05,400 So it's tricky. 380 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,480 And that's like the million dollar question is what do we focus on? 381 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,120 Because there are so many different data points that you could bring into a discussion in 382 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,120 a lesson. 383 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:23,360 And we're all in that same data that we cite, you know, for like 80% of students will reduce 384 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,000 or eliminate their consumption. 385 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,600 That same data shows us what they care about, what they don't care about, why they don't 386 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,100 care. 387 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:35,200 Sometimes like they'll actually write out why they don't care about it. 388 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,240 So we can use that same data to help our strategies evolve as well. 389 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:46,080 And so any advocate, excuse me, out there for any issue needs to be strategic and listen 390 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,960 to feedback from the people that you are talking with and hoping to affect. 391 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,400 Yeah, sounds good. 392 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,920 Have there been any significant changes you have seen in your years of working in this 393 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:58,920 field? 394 00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,920 Oh, yeah. 395 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,560 Otherwise, I would have, I need some of that. 396 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,560 We all need validation. 397 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,160 And we need some, you need wins in your life. 398 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,280 But yeah, we've seen a ton of progress recently from like New York City making all their public 399 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,960 hospitals plant based by default. 400 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:21,920 Now, hospital Vancouver, yeah, and it's starting to like, people are watching that and seeing 401 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:22,920 how it unfolds. 402 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:29,520 That has the potential to be really systemic change and influential change. 403 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Yeah, there's so many, like so we, we train future leaders and like one of our alumni 404 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,400 from our program, our training program or summer training program, they just worked 405 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,560 on a campaign on UCLA and UCLA announced that 50% of their food offerings on their campus 406 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,440 will be plant based by 2027, I think is what they just said. 407 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:53,440 Just got announced like today. 408 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,440 Not too far away. 409 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,440 Yeah. 410 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:01,400 That's a huge change from five or 10 years ago and like our mark and Sodexo, these multi, 411 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,120 you know, huge corporations committing to like 45% plant based offerings by the end 412 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:07,120 of the decade. 413 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:10,200 There are a lot of signs of progress. 414 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,800 People at home, anybody listening knows how their milk section has changed over the last 415 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,400 five or 10 years and all the dairy free milks that are now available and plant based meats 416 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,280 and plant based cheeses and those aren't, you know, a silver bullet or perfect companies 417 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,280 or perfect foods. 418 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,280 Sure, fine. 419 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,800 They're flawed, but they're a sign of progress. 420 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:38,120 And so there are so many signs and so many people that care about this issue that it's 421 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,040 why I said at the top it's a really exciting time to be part of this movement because there's 422 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,040 a lot of momentum that's been building over the last 30 or 40 years. 423 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,440 Touching on how milk alternatives have changed, how can consumers identify and purchase animal 424 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,520 products for more sustainable and ethical sources? 425 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,000 That's a tough question. 426 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,120 You're coming up with a hard hitting question. 427 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,120 Hard ones. 428 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:09,240 It depends on how you define sustainable and ethical and everybody kind of, sustainable 429 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,520 is a buzzword, ethical means something different to everybody. 430 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,680 So you know, could you ethically kill an animal that wants to live if you have other food 431 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,680 choices? 432 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:20,680 I don't know. 433 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,640 I have my thoughts on that. 434 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:29,840 You know, even like the most pristine cow raised on the most beautiful pasture land, 435 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,280 they still have to live for a certain amount of time, they burp out methane, they have 436 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,200 to drink a certain amount of water and animals, generally speaking, are not very efficient 437 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,520 calorie converters. 438 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,640 So they generally have to eat a lot more food than we actually get from them. 439 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,640 So as far as being a sustainable way to feed 9 billion people, again, we would look to 440 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:57,120 the experts and show that even the most picturesque and environmentally friendly seeming animal 441 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,920 agriculture operations, while they're totally different than factory farming, they still 442 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,520 have serious environmental impacts. 443 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,680 And then the ethical quandary never goes away because you're taking life at the end of the 444 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,680 day. 445 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,080 And trust me, these animals want to live. 446 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:17,000 And if we have other options that we're choosing not to eat, we kill these animals anyway. 447 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:23,760 Well, then that's a whole ethical dilemma that we loved it, converse about. 448 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,440 And for our audience who is interested in learning more about this, how can they find 449 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,360 out more about the anti factory farming movement? 450 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:37,800 Well, we are the pipeline and the hub to to toot in our own home. 451 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,800 So new reasons to that org were actually applications are open right now for our leadership Academy 452 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,800 now. 453 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,400 Yeah, it's an eight week training course. 454 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,120 It really equips you with skills, knowledge, connections. 455 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:56,320 It's all about who you know, and that the networking opportunities are global in our 456 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,960 leadership program. 457 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,760 And we do a deep dive on the industry itself and we bring in experts from around the world, 458 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:10,440 whether they're science or business or philosophy or economics or whatever, we're bringing 459 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,680 experts from all different aspects of the food system. 460 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,920 They do discussions and workshops. 461 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,680 You get to work with a group of peers from around the world, so we'll have about 150 462 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,040 students from around the world this summer and most of the program is virtual. 463 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,320 So it's really the best way to get educated quickly and also make connections for those 464 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,560 that are interested in like pursuing this as a career. 465 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,120 That's what a lot of us don't understand. 466 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,720 We're young, so we can actually have a career that's super fulfilling, that's super meaningful, 467 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,040 that also pays our bills. 468 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,880 And those two things don't always compute when we're young. 469 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,760 Like when I first started advocacy, it didn't make sense for me to like professionally do 470 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,760 activism or whatever, but there's a million different ways that you actually can and that's 471 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,360 what our training program teaches you. 472 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:59,640 Even if you're an accountant, we need you in the movement to end factory farming. 473 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:06,120 Even if you're a friggin' model, I have a bad example. 474 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:11,680 If you're a podcast host, we need you in the movement to end factory farming. 475 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,000 And that's what our program works to do is to make connections with people with skills 476 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,640 and passion and dedication to ways that they can support themselves and their families, 477 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,080 but also work to perform this FDUP system. 478 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,600 Alright, so earlier you mentioned that people have to care first and that we need a plant-centric 479 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,600 diet and that people also need to be educated. 480 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,800 And you just mentioned your program. 481 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,400 Is there anything else that our listeners should do to help reduce factory farming contributions 482 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,920 to global warming? 483 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,960 Right, so our personal food choices are huge and tens of millions of people are making 484 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:53,840 different food choices and the proof and evidence of that is undeniable. 485 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,400 Our leadership program is a great way to become a professional. 486 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,920 And then in your own circles, your friends, family, social media, just starting a seemingly 487 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,680 small conversation is massive. 488 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,560 Like that's how things change in our country is millions of people having conversations 489 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,200 about issues. 490 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:17,080 We've seen it with the women's right to vote with equal marriage with any issue, whatever. 491 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:25,040 Whether we've made progress or not or made enough progress, it starts with people getting 492 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,280 educated, having conversations, debating each other on it. 493 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,760 So that part of it's really important too. 494 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,680 And it sounds trite and cliche like you got spread awareness. 495 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,880 It really does make a huge difference. 496 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,200 Perfect, thank you for that. 497 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,480 Thank you, Rowdy, from New Roots Institute for talking with us today. 498 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,040 Yes, thank you so, so much. 499 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,040 If y'all want to hear more from Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast, follow us 500 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,280 in our socials at climate to action on Instagram and X, that's at climate to action. 501 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,480 Visit us for updates behind the scene, content and more. 502 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,840 Right, finally, climate to action wants to remind you to take action. 503 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,520 How are we going to take action? 504 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,520 I'm happy you asked. 505 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:05,520 You have to first care. 506 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,520 You have a heart for the land that you live on in this earth. 507 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840 Number two, have a more plant-centric life. 508 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,840 And finally, stay educated. 509 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,840 Listen to this podcast. 510 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,840 Share this podcast. 511 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,840 Yeah, thank you. 512 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:46,760 Until next time, this is Climate to Action, a CSUSM student podcast signing off.