WEBVTT 00:00:05.630 --> 00:00:08.289 Welcome to Design Downtime, the podcast where 00:00:08.289 --> 00:00:10.589 we celebrate the joys of living a balanced creative 00:00:10.589 --> 00:00:13.910 life. I'm your host, Guy Segal, a design director 00:00:13.910 --> 00:00:16.449 in Toronto, Canada, and I invite you to join 00:00:16.449 --> 00:00:18.829 me on this journey as we redefine what it means 00:00:18.829 --> 00:00:21.649 to be a successful design professional. Let's 00:00:21.649 --> 00:00:23.609 break free from the shackles of hustle culture 00:00:23.609 --> 00:00:25.910 and embrace the full spectrum of human experience, 00:00:26.170 --> 00:00:28.769 because life is too precious to be spent only 00:00:28.769 --> 00:00:31.589 in pursuit of productivity. Today, I'm excited 00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:34.659 to talk to Mike Perrotti. Mike is a product designer 00:00:34.659 --> 00:00:37.439 at Datadog living in Brooklyn with an assortment 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.659 of plants and reptiles, a cat, and a loving partner 00:00:40.659 --> 00:00:43.520 who tolerates it all. He spends his weekends 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.159 in his lush greenhouse by day and on dark, foggy 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:49.820 dance floors by night. Before moving to New York 00:00:49.820 --> 00:00:52.920 in 2012, he studied art in Philadelphia, then 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.759 fell sideways into UI design and front-end development. 00:00:56.219 --> 00:00:58.979 He later went on to become a major contributor 00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:01.560 to various design systems, including GitHub's 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:04.349 Primer. Along the way, he developed a pattern 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:06.810 of picking up hobbies and going completely and 00:01:06.810 --> 00:01:09.549 shamelessly overboard with them. His houseplant 00:01:09.549 --> 00:01:12.909 hobby snuck up on him and, predictably, spiraled 00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:15.870 into an obsession. Mike, welcome to the show. 00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:19.909 Thanks, Guy. Nice to meet you. It's rare that 00:01:19.909 --> 00:01:23.010 somebody will let me just come on and talk about 00:01:23.010 --> 00:01:26.930 plants. Yeah, I heard about your show and I thought 00:01:26.930 --> 00:01:31.040 I have picked up so many little things I do 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:33.500 outside of work through the years. I could have 00:01:33.500 --> 00:01:36.379 picked a multitude of topics, but my current 00:01:36.379 --> 00:01:39.719 thing is plants. I go through phases and sometimes 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:42.879 the things stick and sometimes I kind of leave 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:45.959 them behind. Like I went through a printmaking 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.840 phase. I still do some printmaking, but not as 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.939 much as I used to. So now I spend all my time 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:57.439 doing stuff with my plants. So specifically, 00:01:58.839 --> 00:02:04.019 I focus mostly on tropicals. So things like philodendrons, 00:02:04.019 --> 00:02:07.859 anthuriums. I love a begonia. Some monsteras, 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.599 but I don't know. I feel like monsteras are a 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.680 little oversaturated right now. I feel like every 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.060 week there's a new bizarre form of monstera coming 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:19.439 out that they're trying to charge $1,000 for. 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.439 But yeah, in the bio it says like it snuck up 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:26.439 on me. What happened was my therapist actually 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.340 recommended, hey. your depression's really bad 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:31.340 this year, like seasonal depression, why don't 00:02:31.340 --> 00:02:34.560 you try some greenery? And I was like, all right, 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:37.159 I'll give it a shot. Like how hard can a plant 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.460 possibly be to take care of? Like I have a gecko, 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:44.400 a snake, a lizard. I feel like if I can make 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:48.340 a arboreal gecko from an island off the coast 00:02:48.340 --> 00:02:50.400 of Australia survive in a Brooklyn apartment, 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:54.439 surely I can deal with a plant. So I got one 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:56.199 that I just thought looked pretty because I didn't 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:58.460 know much about them at the time. And it was 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:01.919 a Maranta, which is a type of Calathea. They 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.979 have really, really pretty leaves. And anybody 00:03:04.979 --> 00:03:07.139 who knows about plants heard me say Calathea 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:10.180 and thought, oh, no, why did you make that your 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:12.860 first plant? Because they are extremely fussy. 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:16.919 They attract pests. I set myself up for heartbreak. 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:19.819 So I killed that one. And I was like, what? How 00:03:19.819 --> 00:03:22.800 did I kill this? I can keep all these other more 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.139 advanced things alive, but not this one. And 00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:27.840 I was like. it was so pretty i want to try it 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:30.659 again and i just kind of became stubborn and 00:03:30.659 --> 00:03:33.759 then i eventually realized oh because you're 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.120 you're trying to take on this complicated thing 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.800 let's let's scale it back a little and try an 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.960 easier philodendron and then from there i was 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:46.120 as i was doing more research about the care and 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:50.319 their natural environments i was like oh i thought 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:52.639 the lighting in my house was enough light for 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.039 these plants but No, then I got grow lights and 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.159 then I was like, oh, if I can keep these alive, 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:02.120 maybe I can like be bold and get some of the 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:06.219 more expensive, fancy, rare plants. And that's 00:04:06.219 --> 00:04:09.199 when it just like blew up. And then right around 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.539 that time, COVID hit. And not just me, like the 00:04:12.539 --> 00:04:16.079 entire world kind of had a little mini tulip 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.699 mania over plants. And the same thing happened 00:04:18.699 --> 00:04:21.660 to me. I would just look forward to. getting 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:25.220 new shipments and unboxing them and having new 00:04:25.220 --> 00:04:28.540 plants and taking care of them. And then that 00:04:28.540 --> 00:04:32.220 same year, my landlord basically kicked everyone 00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:33.560 out of the building because I was the only one 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:35.740 paying rent. But it ended up being a blessing 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:38.259 in disguise because the next place I got had 00:04:38.259 --> 00:04:41.720 a backyard or more like a patio. So then I was 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.899 like, oh, well, this is a whole other realm for 00:04:44.899 --> 00:04:47.779 me to keep plants. I'm not limited to my... Brooklyn 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:51.040 apartment and getting as close to a window as 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.620 possible. So yeah, it just kind of blew up and 00:04:54.620 --> 00:04:59.819 it comes and goes in phases. And the nice thing 00:04:59.819 --> 00:05:04.120 is it does mesh well with keeping reptiles because 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:08.899 my gecko, for example, he is from a tropical 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:13.139 climate. He loves high humidity. And I converted 00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:16.189 his... enclosure into something called a bioactive 00:05:16.189 --> 00:05:20.310 vivarium so that's where it's kind of a self 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:23.350 -sustaining ecosystem it's a big planted beautiful 00:05:23.350 --> 00:05:25.589 terrarium looking thing it has something living 00:05:25.589 --> 00:05:28.009 in it though it has my gecko and then it has 00:05:28.009 --> 00:05:30.629 a bunch of teeny little bugs you can barely see 00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:34.629 and the bugs are like the cleanup crew they clean 00:05:34.629 --> 00:05:38.129 up all the any dead plant matter and you know 00:05:38.129 --> 00:05:40.689 gecko poop and then the gecko poop fertilizes 00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:43.079 everything And then since I naturally have to 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.379 keep it humid, that's just, it's like my cheat 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:49.480 code for when I get like a really difficult orchid 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.660 or a really difficult tropical plant that can't 00:05:53.660 --> 00:05:56.639 even survive in my little Ikea cabinet. It goes 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.540 in there and it will thrive. So yeah, it just, 00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:04.699 it worked out really well. And I've had to, at 00:06:04.699 --> 00:06:07.980 certain times stop myself and be like, wait, 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:10.439 you're treating this more like a collector thing 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:14.100 where you are trying to just collect things because, 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.300 I don't know, you like hold them in some level 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:20.639 of status. Not status for myself, but like, ooh, 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:23.699 I want that really rare hard to get player. Like 00:06:23.699 --> 00:06:26.439 for a while, I've really wanted this thing called 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.759 Monstera Thai Constellation. You've almost certainly 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.459 seen them. They're like a regular Monstera, the... 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:34.879 you know, leaves with the holes in them, but 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:38.240 it's very speckly. And that's called variegation. 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:41.660 It's very speckly, like whites, yellows, creams. 00:06:42.300 --> 00:06:46.060 And this plant used to be thousands of dollars. 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.279 Sometimes you'd get lucky and find it for upper 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:51.459 hundreds. And I was like, well, that's nice, 00:06:51.500 --> 00:06:54.259 but I'm not going to drop that much money on 00:06:54.259 --> 00:06:57.660 a plant. And the other nice thing about it is 00:06:57.660 --> 00:07:02.139 it's got stable variegation, which means though 00:07:02.139 --> 00:07:07.100 that coloring is genetic so as it grows it will 00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:10.959 stay variegated some plants they will start out 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.160 that way and then as they grow they will lose 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.560 that coloring and you have to it's hard to get 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.060 back you can maybe get it back if you trim it 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:23.639 or prune it but yeah so i i didn't i didn't get 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:25.519 that but i really really wanted it and it was 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:29.350 like the it plant for a while And I was like, 00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:32.430 wait, do I want this because it's pretty or because 00:07:32.430 --> 00:07:37.069 it's the it plant? And then nowadays, there's 00:07:37.069 --> 00:07:39.750 a company in Florida called Costa Farms. They 00:07:39.750 --> 00:07:42.649 got them into tissue culture. which is how you 00:07:42.649 --> 00:07:45.649 can mass produce plants and now you could pick 00:07:45.649 --> 00:07:49.930 one up at walmart for like $25 so i got mine right 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:52.329 when they got into tissue culture i didn't pay 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:56.189 $25 but i didn't pay more than 100 so i was noticing 00:07:56.189 --> 00:07:59.750 like oh you seem to be getting hung up on the 00:07:59.750 --> 00:08:03.490 preciousness and rarity of these things don't 00:08:03.490 --> 00:08:05.910 be a collector these are not baseball cards these 00:08:05.910 --> 00:08:08.790 are not even records these are these are like 00:08:08.790 --> 00:08:10.790 these beautiful things that you tend to and care 00:08:10.790 --> 00:08:14.980 for And I started getting into plans for mental 00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:19.100 health reasons. And then if I feel like if I'm 00:08:19.100 --> 00:08:23.079 turning it into more of a collection, yeah, I 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.040 feel like if I don't have the right mindset towards 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.000 it, like if I don't treat it as an outlet and 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.779 something I do, then it kind of loses the point. 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:36.279 It just feels not as much fun. So yeah, that's 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:40.000 like a little background. Usually I like to start 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.570 with the origin story. How did you get into 00:08:42.570 --> 00:08:45.250 it? But you already touched on that. Yes, I did 00:08:45.250 --> 00:08:48.370 touch on that. I'm actually curious to go a bit 00:08:48.370 --> 00:08:52.690 further back before getting into plants was greenery 00:08:52.690 --> 00:08:55.190 and trees and plants and nature. Was that part 00:08:55.190 --> 00:08:58.070 of your world? A little bit. I mean, I'm very, 00:08:58.149 --> 00:09:02.210 very much a city boy. But even since I was a 00:09:02.210 --> 00:09:05.870 kid, like when I was growing up. My dad's side 00:09:05.870 --> 00:09:09.690 of the family had a trailer out like basically 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:12.169 in the middle of the woods in Pennsylvania. And 00:09:12.169 --> 00:09:14.690 we would go out there like we lived in West Orange, 00:09:14.789 --> 00:09:17.710 which is a suburb of New York, like right next 00:09:17.710 --> 00:09:20.629 to Newark. So even though it's not like full 00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:22.850 on city, it's still very urban. So when I was 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:24.889 growing up, there'd be weekends where we'd go 00:09:24.889 --> 00:09:27.710 to the trailer in Pennsylvania. And it was just 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.129 like the luscious, greenest, most naturey thing. 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.899 I can still smell it now. Like I love the smell. 00:09:34.340 --> 00:09:36.279 That's another thing in my gecko vivarium. When 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.039 I open it up and smell it, I can smell that like 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:42.159 peaty, organic, earthy smell. And it just is 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.940 so soothing. So yeah, back then I would do that. 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.700 And over the summers, even before I got into 00:09:48.700 --> 00:09:53.200 plants, I would go camping with my friends along 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.730 the Delaware River. And then I discovered that 00:09:56.730 --> 00:09:58.669 they have gay campgrounds in Pennsylvania, which 00:09:58.669 --> 00:10:01.350 is a real hell of a time. So I got even more 00:10:01.350 --> 00:10:04.090 into that. And then I used to be a lot more into 00:10:04.090 --> 00:10:07.210 yoga. So I'd go on yoga retreats upstate. And 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:10.429 I love nature. I find it like it's a really pleasant 00:10:10.429 --> 00:10:14.990 place for me. And I love rural stuff. But I'm also 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:17.909 just such a city boy. I couldn't constantly be 00:10:17.909 --> 00:10:20.309 surrounded by nature. I don't know. Maybe I could 00:10:20.309 --> 00:10:24.210 someday. But now I like being able to go to Broadway 00:10:24.210 --> 00:10:28.789 and art shows and raves and whatnot. So, yeah, 00:10:28.909 --> 00:10:31.669 I have had a connection with nature. But as I 00:10:31.669 --> 00:10:35.289 said, total Yankee city boy. So what made you 00:10:35.289 --> 00:10:38.179 pick that first plant you got? I forget which 00:10:38.179 --> 00:10:39.740 plant store. Oh, it's probably the one by my 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:41.840 house in Bed-Stuy. But I just went into a plant 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.960 store. I looked around and I saw this plant that 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:48.220 had this really beautiful foliage. So a Maranta, 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:52.240 also called a prayer plant. I got the green version 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.779 too. There's usually you see them and it's like 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:58.059 an oval shaped leaf. And then there are like 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:00.600 through the leaf, there's these stripes. It's 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:02.779 like just a very beautiful pattern. So usually 00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:05.919 those stripes are a crimson red. but this one 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.700 it was like a light neon green and it just looked 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:12.340 it almost looked fake and they almost are a little 00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:15.299 bit velvety too like it's not glossy it looked 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:18.840 like a a fake plant almost it just the patterning 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.139 was so gorgeous and i was like whoa this is a 00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:24.500 thing that nature just made i don't know the 00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:27.679 evolutionary reasoning for the way the foliage 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.429 looks but i was just like blown away by it And 00:11:31.429 --> 00:11:34.409 I was like, why do people like flowers? Foliage 00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:36.350 is so much nicer. So yeah, I was just really 00:11:36.350 --> 00:11:39.470 into the foliage. And I thought, oh, it would 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:42.269 be cool. It would be cool to have this in my 00:11:42.269 --> 00:11:44.950 house rather than like a boring snake plant or 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:49.190 a pure green pothos. Your direction has been 00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:53.509 foliage rather than focusing on flowers or... 00:11:53.509 --> 00:11:58.139 Yeah, flowers, I just... They seem a lot more 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.179 complicated with the nutrients. Also, they need 00:12:01.179 --> 00:12:03.659 way more light than I could ever provide. So 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:06.379 I live on the bottom floor of a brownstone in 00:12:06.379 --> 00:12:09.600 Brooklyn. There's two windows in the front and 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.679 two tiny windows in the back in our bedroom. 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:18.629 I get no natural light, which is not good. because 00:12:18.629 --> 00:12:21.029 that means i have to use a lot of grow lights 00:12:21.029 --> 00:12:23.629 i i have like a grow light budget i don't even 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:25.730 pay my electric my landlord does but i just feel 00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:28.529 like it's so wasteful to use all this energy 00:12:28.529 --> 00:12:30.990 to grow plants it feels like i'm hurting the 00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:33.269 environment to mimic the environment in my house 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:37.549 flowers just would not work for me my dad is 00:12:37.549 --> 00:12:43.470 a very talented gardener and grower and he does 00:12:43.470 --> 00:12:46.870 all the fancy like nutrients and stuff to get 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:50.659 things to produce fruit or flowers, but I was 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:53.220 just like, no, I just, I just want the tropical 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:57.259 stuff. It also, I think besides the fact that 00:12:57.259 --> 00:12:59.480 it's like, it grows in the understory and it 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:02.659 can deal with lower light. Most of these plants, 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.440 like most philodendrons will grow very easily. 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:08.960 You don't need to do that much for them. And 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.679 it just kind of fits in with the, the like interior 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.779 design aesthetic of my apartment. These plants 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:18.379 are things I can put in my reptile enclosures 00:13:18.379 --> 00:13:21.740 and they will work well. So yeah, I think that's 00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:25.740 why I picked those. And now that I mentioned 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:29.500 how they fit in with my aesthetic, it also made 00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:33.039 me remember that a few years ago, as I was a 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:38.519 few years into my plant journey, I realized there 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:43.879 were parallels between... designing UI or like 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:47.879 systems and UI and keeping plants. So like, I 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.179 know that sounds wild and it doesn't actually 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:55.539 sound possible, but like in my house, if I wanted 00:13:55.539 --> 00:13:59.559 to, I could grow whatever I wanted, make it gorgeous 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:03.779 and make it like a really healthy plants. But 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:07.100 then I would have to have like this. ugly blue 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:11.299 red lighting and like plasticky grow tents my 00:14:11.299 --> 00:14:13.480 apartment might get humidity and moldy so it's 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.299 like yeah you can so that would be like if you 00:14:16.299 --> 00:14:19.519 built a website with straight up html no css 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.899 it's like yeah it's performant it's accessible 00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.519 all that good stuff but then it's like yeah but 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.879 it looks like crap what i have to do is i have 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.190 to work with the harsh environment of my of my 00:14:32.190 --> 00:14:33.730 apartment which is kind of like working in the 00:14:33.730 --> 00:14:36.350 harsh environment of browsers and be like all 00:14:36.350 --> 00:14:39.929 right here's the tools available to us i can 00:14:39.929 --> 00:14:43.830 i can't just like take like i have some anthuriums 00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:47.750 which are these beautiful south american plants 00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:50.090 with like this silvery veining and they're like 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:52.730 velvety leaves i would love to just put that 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:54.889 right on my coffee table and it would look beautiful 00:14:55.690 --> 00:14:58.070 but it would also die so it's like if you go 00:14:58.070 --> 00:14:59.830 too far in the other direction you're like i'm 00:14:59.830 --> 00:15:01.710 just gonna place things where they look cute 00:15:01.710 --> 00:15:04.169 those plants are probably gonna die especially 00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:06.429 in the winter when my humidity gets down to like 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:09.289 10 so it's like all right i have to figure out 00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:12.590 how to cluster these things so that it makes 00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:14.690 the watering easier that's another thing maintenance 00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:17.990 i have a whole system in the winter of like where 00:15:17.990 --> 00:15:20.789 i put things because i have i did a count two 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:25.370 weeks ago And I have 159 plants. So watering 00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:27.970 all of those and caring for all of those, especially 00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:30.629 because there's a lot of divas in that mix. It's 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:33.509 a lot. So I have to like plan out where I put 00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:36.210 things based on their needs. Lighting is the 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:38.850 biggest thing. Like, as I said, I have a budget 00:15:38.850 --> 00:15:40.909 for how many watts I will let myself have with 00:15:40.909 --> 00:15:44.070 grow lights. So I'm like, all right, these highly 00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:47.649 variegated plants. are going to get clustered 00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:50.370 right here under my like super strong grow light. 00:15:50.549 --> 00:15:54.830 And then things like orchids and calatheas and 00:15:54.830 --> 00:15:57.509 certain begonias. I'm like, you guys can deal 00:15:57.509 --> 00:15:58.970 with the lower lighting. You're going to go here. 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:01.649 Or a pothos or something. I'm like, yeah, that 00:16:01.649 --> 00:16:03.950 shady corner over there, that's fine for you. 00:16:04.250 --> 00:16:06.809 So I have to like balance out what's going to 00:16:06.809 --> 00:16:10.929 look good, what's going to be maintainable, and 00:16:10.929 --> 00:16:13.669 most importantly, how are the plants going to 00:16:13.669 --> 00:16:17.529 survive in that? So it's kind of like, it's a 00:16:17.529 --> 00:16:20.009 push and pull. I can't just enforce whatever 00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:23.710 I want on them, but I also don't want to optimize 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:26.110 my apartment for plants and have it look like 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:29.330 a, you know, grow house or something. You mentioned 00:16:29.330 --> 00:16:31.870 that you don't want this to become another collection. 00:16:32.090 --> 00:16:34.570 How do you keep yourself from going, you know, 00:16:34.590 --> 00:16:37.529 over that boundary? A little bit of it is the 00:16:37.529 --> 00:16:40.230 shame of like, I get a shipment of a plant and 00:16:40.230 --> 00:16:42.590 my boyfriend's like... how much is that plant 00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:45.929 so or like you know i live with my boyfriend 00:16:45.929 --> 00:16:48.669 he has to live there too and i think when i when 00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:51.029 i bring everything in from outside for the summer 00:16:51.029 --> 00:16:54.509 there's just a look on his face of like oh my 00:16:54.509 --> 00:16:56.909 god what why is this living room a jungle now 00:16:56.909 --> 00:16:59.370 he does like it but at first he's like oh my 00:16:59.370 --> 00:17:02.149 god i forgot that there was this much greenery 00:17:02.149 --> 00:17:04.829 so there's a little bit of shame but also it's 00:17:04.829 --> 00:17:07.690 very easy to just remind myself you're not doing 00:17:07.690 --> 00:17:10.769 this for the material part of it like you're 00:17:10.769 --> 00:17:12.630 not doing this just to have like some really 00:17:12.630 --> 00:17:15.410 hot looking plants you're doing this because 00:17:15.410 --> 00:17:19.509 it feels really good to take care of something 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:23.069 and watch it grow like oh the satisfaction i 00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:26.490 get when i see a new leaf unfurling it's just 00:17:26.490 --> 00:17:30.740 so incredible because it's it's i know that like 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:33.119 i only had a part in making that happen the plant 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.440 did all the work but especially when i have a 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.059 very challenging plant like there are some times 00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:39.759 where i'm like why am i doing this to myself 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.359 this plant is such a diva but when i can get 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:44.680 those to behave well i'm just like oh i feel 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:47.740 so good about myself the foliage is beautiful 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:52.400 it's also a slightly meditative time for me. 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:55.420 It used to be every Thursday night, my routine 00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:57.359 would be, all right, we're stopping work at a 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.359 reasonable hour tonight, and we're going to spend 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.200 a few hours doing plant stuff, mostly watering 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:06.099 and nutrients and whatnot. So I just remind myself, 00:18:06.259 --> 00:18:09.220 you're in this more for the care and cultivation 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:14.519 and less for the having things. So another thing 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.700 that helps with that is, like I was saying earlier, 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.769 I kind of have to plan up. plan my setup and 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:23.450 think how things will work together. I have an 00:18:23.450 --> 00:18:26.410 Ikea cabinet that I converted into a greenhouse. 00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:29.490 I installed some fans, lights, a humidity system. 00:18:30.089 --> 00:18:34.309 And I'm finding that it's just as much fun to 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:36.329 take what I already have, the plants I already 00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:39.569 have, and make nice terrariums for them or just 00:18:39.569 --> 00:18:43.029 do things to make them look nice, but with the 00:18:43.029 --> 00:18:46.650 same constraints of their health needs in mind. 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:50.960 like i have some begonias that are have blown 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.579 up they've gotten so big they're outgrowing their 00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.220 terrariums but it was really fun to like make 00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:58.539 the little terrariums and they look so pretty 00:18:58.539 --> 00:19:01.059 especially when i remember to prune them they 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:04.000 look so nice and i'm like oh yeah it's fun to 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.880 have these little things and then it's like oh 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.299 i've created like this little self-sustaining 00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:11.619 environment like my begonias that i made terrariums 00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:14.569 for they are they're in there because they just 00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:16.950 need so much humidity and they need such consistent 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:20.170 conditions so even though they are known to be 00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:24.250 very difficult diva plants they just thrive once 00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:27.069 i set everything up and as i said it's just to 00:19:27.069 --> 00:19:29.950 watch something grow to watch a leaf unfurl is 00:19:29.950 --> 00:19:33.130 so satisfying my favorite leaf to watch unfurl 00:19:33.130 --> 00:19:35.410 or to grow and harden is an anthurium 00:19:35.410 --> 00:19:38.450 leaf because they start off really tiny like 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.869 an inch or two when they first come out and unfurl 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.900 and then they're usually like a deep deep red 00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:47.980 and the veining is very subtle and every day 00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:50.380 you'll see it get a little bigger and a little 00:19:50.380 --> 00:19:52.680 greener and the veining becomes more prominent 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.299 like i really want to do a what's it called stop 00:19:56.299 --> 00:19:58.180 motion i guess it's yeah stop motion where you 00:19:58.180 --> 00:20:00.480 take like a photo every few seconds i really 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.940 want to do one of those of an anthurium growing 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:05.940 i think it would be gorgeous but i just haven't 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:09.119 like taken the time to set do the setup but yeah 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.990 it's just like it's so pretty to watch And back, 00:20:13.049 --> 00:20:16.069 I worked at home for eight years. So that's another 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:19.890 reason why my collection got so big. But I worked 00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:22.849 at home for eight years. And sometimes I would 00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:25.430 just stop what I was doing because I'd get stressed 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:28.069 out and move over into the living room and just 00:20:28.069 --> 00:20:31.430 look into my cabinet, see what's going on. And 00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:33.750 it's like, yeah, this is the part I like. I like 00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:36.309 creating this environment and having like this 00:20:36.309 --> 00:20:42.259 kind of zen thing to watch and grow with. So 00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:45.859 you said you had 159 plants at home? I do, yes. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.579 And that is quite a complex system of maintenance, 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.559 of what can be with what, lighting and all that. 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:54.880 What sort of considerations go into getting your 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.279 160th plant? How many Excel spreadsheets do you 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:02.220 have to consult to know what to get? I actually 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:04.519 started making a spreadsheet a few years ago. 00:21:05.019 --> 00:21:07.539 And then halfway through, I was like, I don't 00:21:07.539 --> 00:21:10.660 want to do this. This is dumb. Like, it was like, 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.450 no, I... I should not have to make an Excel spreadsheet 00:21:13.450 --> 00:21:15.930 for a hobby. Actually, I do love a spreadsheet, 00:21:16.069 --> 00:21:21.089 but I was just like, so if I was to get 160th 00:21:21.089 --> 00:21:23.410 plant, there's no plans right now. It's a balance 00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:26.930 of factors. It's like, is there a space that 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:30.430 is available? Usually the answer would be no. 00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:34.589 Is there a place I can put this? Why do I want 00:21:34.589 --> 00:21:38.569 this 160th plant? What makes this so special? 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:42.980 How expensive is it? And what's the care like? 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:50.000 So yeah, it's mostly about space, cost, and how 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.440 much attention it's going to need. I recently, 00:21:53.660 --> 00:21:57.960 I did get a new plant recently. I've slightly 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.599 like, I wouldn't say sworn off plants, but I 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.859 have been trying to curb my buying. And recently 00:22:03.859 --> 00:22:07.099 I got my top wishlist plant. It's been on my 00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:09.819 list for... I don't know, since like the beginning, 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:14.099 probably since like 2020, 2021. And I had been 00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:18.140 waiting so long to get it because I was like, 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.140 all right, let's hold off. Maybe it'll go into 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:24.500 tissue culture. But this plant is notoriously 00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:27.019 difficult. Like it will not go into tissue culture. 00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:31.059 It's called a philodendron ilsemanii. It's from 00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:35.200 South America, but it's mostly like the grower 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:39.029 who's best known for cultivating it is. kunzo 00:22:39.029 --> 00:22:42.430 i forget his last name but he's a japanese plant 00:22:42.430 --> 00:22:47.549 person and he's been producing them and i saw 00:22:47.549 --> 00:22:50.509 that there's a nursery in detroit rare plant 00:22:50.509 --> 00:22:53.609 fairy she's been cultivating them as well and 00:22:53.609 --> 00:22:56.109 she like if there's a plant that's about to be 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:58.789 really hot she's usually the one where you'll 00:22:58.789 --> 00:23:02.170 see it start to drop in price on her site so 00:23:02.170 --> 00:23:04.650 i was like oh rare plant fairy has them now she's 00:23:04.650 --> 00:23:08.940 put out like a few in the past year Over time, 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.240 she's been putting them out. I'm like, I'm going 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.599 to wait until it gets a little less expensive. 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:17.259 The price dropped pretty drastically a few years 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:21.099 ago. It used to be like almost $1,000 for a 00:23:21.099 --> 00:23:25.420 teeny tiny one. And it recently got down to like 00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:30.000 $400. And then I saw a really tiny one for $300. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.599 And I was like, all right, these are never going 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:34.799 to go into tissue culture. I've wanted one for 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.660 forever. I've read conflicting things. I've read 00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:39.640 they have stable variegation, but I've also read 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.759 they have chimeric variegation. So I'm like, 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:44.859 I think this will keep its variegation, but I'm 00:23:44.859 --> 00:23:48.000 not sure. I couldn't find... Chimeric variegation 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.400 is where it can grow out and just become all 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.579 green. So I was like, all right, you've wanted 00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:57.539 this for years. It's the growing season, so it's 00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:01.119 a safe time to get it. However, it is a bit of 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.079 a diva, mostly because it loves consistent conditions. 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.359 And also I was buying one on the cheap. So it 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.099 was a teeny tiny baby. And those are even harder 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:13.619 to care for. So I was like, all right, it's the 00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:16.400 growing season. You have space in your IKEA cabinet. 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.900 You will have enough time to make sure it is 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.160 in good condition. So I finally got that one. 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.380 And I was like, OK, I have my top wish list plant. 00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:29.880 Like, are there other plants I want? Yeah. But 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:34.150 do I need them? God, no. But the other thing 00:24:34.150 --> 00:24:37.210 I'll take into account is last year I built a, 00:24:37.269 --> 00:24:39.470 have you seen a vertical like green wall, like 00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:42.230 a plant wall? You've seen those before? Yep. 00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:47.630 So I built my own because as I was starting last 00:24:47.630 --> 00:24:50.009 like August planning out, bringing everything 00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:53.269 back inside, I was like, I want to like go a 00:24:53.269 --> 00:24:56.779 little further. with the presentation of these 00:24:56.779 --> 00:24:59.400 like i used to have them on like these little 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.039 shelves i was like i want to do a green wall 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.720 i bet i could pull that off so i did some research 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.380 and i made one and like over the winter when 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:11.619 i normally don't buy plants because my apartment 00:25:11.619 --> 00:25:14.359 is just hostile and they have to acclimate but 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:16.380 over the winter i would notice oh there's some 00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:20.200 spots in here that i could fill in and i would 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.250 go to a nursery and get like you know a cheap 00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:26.569 five to fifteen dollar pothos to just stick in 00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:30.009 there to fill out that area because as i mentioned 00:25:30.009 --> 00:25:32.170 earlier you have to plan things based on the 00:25:32.170 --> 00:25:34.650 lighting and it's not that i didn't have enough 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:36.769 plants to fill the space i totally could have 00:25:36.769 --> 00:25:39.109 it's just like there were spaces in the green 00:25:39.109 --> 00:25:41.369 wall that i didn't have anything that would fit 00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:45.609 there so i think what can handle these care requirements 00:25:45.609 --> 00:25:48.769 and usually the things that can go in those empty 00:25:48.769 --> 00:25:52.799 spaces were cheaper. So it's about like, is 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:54.740 there like, is there an aesthetic reason to add 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:57.579 plants? And usually, usually I can fill those 00:25:57.579 --> 00:26:00.279 spaces with the cheaper ones. So with so many 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:02.880 plants in your apartment, how impossible is it 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.420 for you to go on vacation or even in the future 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:10.079 move out? That's a very good question. So I do 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:11.960 get a little stressed out when I'm on vacation, 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.970 not a lot, just a little. But the thing is, I, 00:26:15.970 --> 00:26:18.670 you know, I had a hard enough time finding somebody 00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:20.750 who would come take care of my reptiles while 00:26:20.750 --> 00:26:22.849 I was on vacation. Like some places were just 00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:25.230 like, you want us to do what? But yeah, there's 00:26:25.230 --> 00:26:27.369 a pet care service in Brooklyn. They know who 00:26:27.369 --> 00:26:29.089 I am. They're like, oh, you're the lizard guy. 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:32.390 Yes, I'm the lizard guy, I guess. But yeah, so 00:26:32.390 --> 00:26:34.990 that is hard enough. And then I asked, there's 00:26:34.990 --> 00:26:37.430 this guy who runs a beautiful store in Brooklyn 00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:39.990 called Brooklyn Horticulture. I asked him, I 00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:42.589 was like, hey, do you know somebody who could 00:26:42.589 --> 00:26:45.700 like. I would pay them to come water my plants 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:47.779 while I'm in Japan for two weeks. He's like, 00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:50.799 no, the only person I know only does Park Slope. 00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:54.059 I was like, okay. So I can't get anyone to come. 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:58.119 So what I do is I just do my best before I leave 00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:02.160 to make sure they're set up. Most things, they 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.180 don't even want to be watered. I'm rarely gone 00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:05.880 for more than two weeks. They don't even want 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.079 to be watered that often. So I just make sure 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.240 they're nice and watered. all my grow lights 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.599 are on a timer so i don't have to worry about 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:16.180 that or if they're outside the sun does its thing 00:27:16.180 --> 00:27:19.740 being the sun but yeah i it's mostly the watering 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:23.799 and then there is a little system i have where 00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.140 it's these like tubes it's the gravity feeds 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:30.180 so it's like these little pvc tubes i just put 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.720 a thing of water high up and then feed the tubes 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.799 into the thirstier girls like my alocasias they 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:40.740 do not like to dry out well most of them don't 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:44.299 like to dry out or calatheas some begonias yeah 00:27:44.299 --> 00:27:46.339 so like certain things i'll be like all right 00:27:46.339 --> 00:27:48.059 you're gonna get the tube the rest of you i'm 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:50.480 just watering and hoping for the best and then 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:52.559 when i get home from vacation one of the first 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.779 things i do i put down my suitcase i run over 00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.940 to my ikea cabinet because that's where the diva 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:58.880 girl that's where the fancy ones are i'm like 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.319 all right all right let's see what is the carnage 00:28:01.929 --> 00:28:04.269 And I think I've figured it out because the last 00:28:04.269 --> 00:28:07.509 few times hasn't really been that bad. The ones 00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:10.009 that usually suffer when I'm gone are the alocasias 00:28:10.009 --> 00:28:12.210 because they like very consistent conditions. 00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:15.250 And I'm just like, all right, an alocasia lost 00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:18.430 a few leaves. But the other nice thing about 00:28:18.430 --> 00:28:21.069 those is they're tubers, so they grow from bulbs. 00:28:21.269 --> 00:28:23.650 And I think that's part of the reason why they 00:28:23.650 --> 00:28:26.509 come back so easily. Those and begonias, if I 00:28:26.509 --> 00:28:28.430 see those lose a bunch of leaves, I'm like, oh. 00:28:28.730 --> 00:28:30.910 it's fine. I'll just baby you for a little bit 00:28:30.910 --> 00:28:33.289 and you'll spring back to life. So yeah, it's 00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:36.230 stressful, but I just hope for the best. Because 00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:39.069 as a reminder, I'm like, this is something that 00:28:39.069 --> 00:28:41.970 should be bringing you joy and making you happy, 00:28:42.049 --> 00:28:45.529 not adding stress to your life. Do your pets 00:28:45.529 --> 00:28:48.549 ever get to enjoy the plants? Do the worlds collide? 00:28:49.049 --> 00:28:52.289 The worlds certainly collide for my gecko. So 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:55.470 he has, as I described earlier, a bioactive ovarian, 00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:58.680 which requires plants. He gets some really nice 00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:02.880 plants in there. My bearded dragon likes it really 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:07.900 dry or pretty dry. So there's not, I don't really 00:29:07.900 --> 00:29:10.680 do cacti or succulents that much. She has one 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.880 like non-spined cactus in there, but I'm just 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:16.400 going to take it out. I just take it out and 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.519 put it in the backyard for more sun over the 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:20.559 summer. It just kind of sits there. It's not 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.799 a whole big display presentation like it is for 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.910 the gecko. My snake, I have not even attempted 00:29:26.910 --> 00:29:29.029 to plant in her enclosure because I know she'll 00:29:29.029 --> 00:29:32.490 just destroy it. And then I did try and switch 00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:35.509 my... I have a blue-tongued skink, which is 00:29:35.509 --> 00:29:38.109 like... I call it a lizard burrito. It's like 00:29:38.109 --> 00:29:40.769 this big, fat, thick lizard with these little 00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:43.349 legs. I've tried planting in her enclosure before 00:29:43.349 --> 00:29:46.450 because they actually will... Some people get 00:29:46.450 --> 00:29:48.789 really fancy and they will grow little herb gardens 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:51.009 and they let their blue-tongued skink eat the 00:29:51.009 --> 00:29:54.089 herbs. So I tried that and she was just like, 00:29:54.170 --> 00:29:58.910 nah, I'm gonna wreck this. So those don't collide 00:29:58.910 --> 00:30:03.170 as much. My cat, I'm very lucky. My cat leaves 00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:06.250 my stuff alone. So there's a lot of plants that 00:30:06.250 --> 00:30:10.349 I just can't have in my cat's way because... 00:30:11.069 --> 00:30:13.890 Some of them are toxic to cats. So I have to 00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:15.650 think about that when I'm placing plants too. 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.970 But thankfully, she will leave things alone unless 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:22.750 it's like long grass-like looking fronds. Like 00:30:22.750 --> 00:30:25.769 I have this thing called a ponytail palm. It 00:30:25.769 --> 00:30:28.069 looks like a bunch of blades of grass bursting 00:30:28.069 --> 00:30:31.670 out of a tree stump. And she just loves to chew 00:30:31.670 --> 00:30:34.630 on that. Or she'll just go and sniff it. So like 00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:36.920 she'll... I don't even know why she does it. 00:30:36.940 --> 00:30:38.720 She like chews it up and then I'll find it like 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:40.539 little chewed leaves next to it. I'm like, you're 00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:43.380 not even eating it. What are you doing? So my 00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:45.480 cat loves to chew it, but she's just kind of 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.619 like, oh, yep, these are here. I'm assuming your 00:30:48.619 --> 00:30:51.960 plants take over multiple areas of your apartment. 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.660 No, I mostly condense them to my living room 00:30:56.660 --> 00:30:59.819 because as I said, I do live with my boyfriend. 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.640 So I'm like, I can't take over the entire apartment. 00:31:04.430 --> 00:31:07.589 So I have like the gecko vivarium is in my office, 00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:09.890 which is like I have a railroad style apartment. 00:31:09.970 --> 00:31:11.990 So the office is right off of the living room. 00:31:12.069 --> 00:31:14.730 So like the gecko vivarium is in there, but everything 00:31:14.730 --> 00:31:19.329 else I have a plant wall by like in place of 00:31:19.329 --> 00:31:21.789 my non-working fireplace, like under the mantle. 00:31:22.210 --> 00:31:24.589 Then I've got the Ikea cabin in the living room. 00:31:25.150 --> 00:31:27.730 I've got a little corner where the tall plants 00:31:27.730 --> 00:31:29.950 go next to a chair. It's a great little reading 00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.529 nook. And then there's a shelf above my couch. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.259 and then i have hanging baskets in my window 00:31:36.259 --> 00:31:38.700 so it's like this is the space you have to work 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:42.019 with you can't be expanding into the bedroom 00:31:42.019 --> 00:31:44.640 or the kitchen i mean because it's a railroad 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.539 style apartment and we only have those two windows 00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:50.980 up front it would just be it would be wasteful 00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:54.500 to have stuff in the kitchen or bathroom because 00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:56.619 there's no windows i'd have to do grow lights 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.279 and then the bedroom it's just like i i've kind 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:02.619 of like the living room is my space and i feel 00:32:02.619 --> 00:32:04.559 like the bedroom is my boyfriend's space it's 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.720 like his crap is just all over there so i'm like 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.579 you you have the bedroom do whatever you want 00:32:09.579 --> 00:32:11.539 let me just have the living room so it's mostly 00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:14.519 confined to the living room do you ever go out 00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.740 and experience other people's plants and vice 00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:20.759 versa have people over what's your relationship 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.299 with the community of of plant people sadly i 00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:27.269 don't know a lot of other plant people so there's 00:32:27.269 --> 00:32:30.730 this one guy i know from like the music scene and 00:32:30.730 --> 00:32:34.589 robert valera he is a very talented musician 00:32:34.589 --> 00:32:38.549 but he's also really into frogs and plants like 00:32:38.549 --> 00:32:41.150 he's kind of living my dream his job is that 00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:44.710 he goes to like big like restaurants or he did 00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:46.890 a big installation in vegas he just does beautiful 00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:50.029 plant installations so whenever i see him at 00:32:50.029 --> 00:32:52.589 a show we'll be like oh my god we can nerd out 00:32:52.589 --> 00:32:55.670 about plants like we never get to do this so 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.960 i know him and then i am pretty friendly with 00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:03.039 uh the owner of brooklyn horticulture which is 00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.920 a like plant studio but also a plant store like 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.720 last time there was an equigenera sale equigenera 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.140 is a grower from ecuador they do like pop-ups 00:33:12.140 --> 00:33:15.279 all over the world and they're always when they're 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:16.960 in new york they're always at brooklyn horticulture 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.279 and it was so rainy i was waiting in line and 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:22.119 he came outside and he saw me and he just gave 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.039 me a little nod of like hey want to cut the line 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:26.259 and i was like oh my god i feel like a plant 00:33:26.259 --> 00:33:29.299 celebrity but other than that i just will like 00:33:29.299 --> 00:33:32.140 talk to people online through instagram just 00:33:32.140 --> 00:33:36.339 like people who i've come across or like one 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:39.919 of my friends moved to portland recently and 00:33:39.919 --> 00:33:42.039 introduced me to one of his friends there who 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.599 also has a snake and he has a greenhouse. And 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.559 I think he even works in plants, but he'll like 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:50.859 post photos of his plants and we'll just talk 00:33:50.859 --> 00:33:52.700 a lot about them. Like, oh my God, how did you 00:33:52.700 --> 00:33:55.700 get your Anthurium Vechii that gigantic? And 00:33:55.700 --> 00:33:58.140 how does it deal with the winter? So yeah, like 00:33:58.140 --> 00:34:00.220 there's a few people I talk to online. There's 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:03.440 only two people I really know in person. Also, 00:34:03.579 --> 00:34:06.740 I try not to, like, I don't really do the... 00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:10.530 instagram plant thing like that's a very popular 00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:13.670 thing like people will just have big instagrams 00:34:13.670 --> 00:34:15.449 of plants and there's like plant influencers 00:34:15.449 --> 00:34:19.489 and i'm just not a social media person and i 00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:23.050 also find that that community can be not nearly 00:34:23.050 --> 00:34:25.789 as toxic and awful as the reptile people but 00:34:25.789 --> 00:34:28.869 the plant i'm just like i don't really want to 00:34:28.869 --> 00:34:32.670 engage it's just a lot of snobbery and weird 00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:36.079 opinions So yeah, it's mostly those two people 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.480 and then a few randos I meet online who seem 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.280 to have the same approach to it as I do. So looking 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.260 back, would you say your therapist's recommendation, 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.119 was that a good thing? I think it was. I wasn't 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:51.679 expecting it to be. I thought I'd be like, I'll 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:53.579 be bored of this in a minute. I won't even care 00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:57.260 about this. So I think it was. The other thing 00:34:57.260 --> 00:35:00.539 that it helped with is... the grow lights in 00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:03.500 the winter kind of act like a bonus sad lamp 00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:05.840 so i used to have one of those seasonal affective 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.539 disorder lamps on my desk i was too embarrassed 00:35:08.539 --> 00:35:10.460 to use one when i was in an office but i would 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.300 use one in my house and then i was like wait 00:35:13.300 --> 00:35:18.300 i already have like a 35 watt led shining on 00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:21.139 me right now and i do think like the past few 00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:23.500 years when i started to like bulk up my grow 00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.019 lights and the greenery in my living room it 00:35:26.019 --> 00:35:29.250 has certainly helped with my mood so like in 00:35:29.250 --> 00:35:33.489 the winter when it's you know sleeting and 20 00:35:33.489 --> 00:35:37.849 degrees outside and i just am in my living room 00:35:37.849 --> 00:35:40.590 and i lay on my couch and look up around at the 00:35:40.590 --> 00:35:45.090 lush tropical jungle around me it's so nice and 00:35:45.090 --> 00:35:48.230 it does feel like a bit of a sanctuary like i 00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:50.210 know it's not probably not good for my back to 00:35:50.210 --> 00:35:52.389 work on my couch but sometimes i'll go over to 00:35:52.389 --> 00:35:54.889 my couch just to be in the room with all the 00:35:54.889 --> 00:35:58.190 plants but it's a little bit of a double-edged 00:35:58.190 --> 00:36:02.230 sword because yeah those parts are calming but 00:36:02.230 --> 00:36:05.690 also as i mentioned i've had to like catch myself 00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:09.489 and be like is this a love or is it an obsession 00:36:09.489 --> 00:36:11.909 i want it to be more of a love i don't want it 00:36:11.909 --> 00:36:15.550 to be like a i'm coveting these rare special 00:36:15.550 --> 00:36:18.769 plants because then i think it becomes actually 00:36:18.769 --> 00:36:22.170 an obsession it's not healthy and it will just 00:36:22.170 --> 00:36:26.519 cause me more stress and also every i mean i'm 00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:30.159 kind of joking but every november-ish after 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:33.519 i bring the plants in in winter setting in there's 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:35.980 a period where everything will like slow down 00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:38.679 and die back a little and every year i'm like 00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.440 oh my god it's the season of death like what 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.239 what plants are gonna fall victim every year 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:46.079 i've gotten better at preventing that from happening 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.059 but there are certain plants where it's just 00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:50.579 a natural part of their life cycle like caladiums 00:36:51.019 --> 00:36:52.619 i have no business having caladium they're a 00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:56.820 total outside tropical beautiful plant but you 00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:59.360 can enjoy them in the spring and summer but then 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:01.820 you have to harvest the bulbs or just keep the 00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:04.880 soil really good and then they'll come back like 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:06.559 they'll die in the winter and they'll come back 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:08.460 in the summer but other things it's just like 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:12.019 oh they were enjoying bright light and high humidity 00:37:12.019 --> 00:37:14.539 outside and now i'm telling them nope you're 00:37:14.539 --> 00:37:16.980 getting 10 humidity and we're getting like i 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.769 don't know eight hours of sunlight Mike, where 00:37:19.769 --> 00:37:22.469 can people find you? That is a great question. 00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:25.949 So as I said, I'm really not a social media person. 00:37:26.030 --> 00:37:29.190 I just don't really use it. I just kind of lurk 00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:31.530 and comment a little on Reddit. But I can share 00:37:31.530 --> 00:37:35.610 my LinkedIn. That's a good way to get a hold 00:37:35.610 --> 00:37:38.150 of me. My personal website is in a desperate, 00:37:38.250 --> 00:37:40.110 desperate need of being redone. So I will not 00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:42.250 share that. But aren't all of our personal websites 00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:44.289 desperately needing to be redone? But anyway, 00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:46.769 yeah, I'll share LinkedIn. I could share Instagram. 00:37:46.909 --> 00:37:48.989 You'll be very bored if you follow me. I don't 00:37:48.989 --> 00:37:52.429 really post, but sometimes I will post some plant 00:37:52.429 --> 00:37:56.829 stuff. Like, oh, last year I got my, I have a 00:37:56.829 --> 00:38:00.050 Hoya called a Compacta Carnosa, aka Hindu rope. 00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:03.389 And Hoyas can be a little tricky to get to flower, 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:05.679 but when they do... Oh my God, it's stunning. 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.199 I posted that a few times on Instagram. It's 00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:11.739 like these ball-shaped clusters of these really 00:38:11.739 --> 00:38:14.940 intricate, beautiful pink flowers. And it looks 00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:19.360 like green ropes with big pink pom-pom balls 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:21.480 attached to it. So yeah, maybe you'll get some 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.900 cute plant photos. But yeah, you're not going 00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:26.500 to get much out of me from social media. And 00:38:26.500 --> 00:38:29.699 that is totally fine. Yes. Thank you so much 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:31.880 for joining us today. Thank you so much for having 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:35.079 me. I will jump at any opportunity to ramble 00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:40.059 on about plants. This is all for this episode 00:38:40.059 --> 00:38:41.940 of Design Downtime. Thank you for joining me. 00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:44.800 And until next time, I hope you enjoy your downtime.