Welcome to Design Downtime, the podcast where
we celebrate the joys of living a balanced creative
life. I'm your host, Guy Segal, a design director
in Toronto, Canada, and I invite you to join
me on this journey as we redefine what it means
to be a successful design professional. Let's
break free from the shackles of hustle culture
and embrace the full spectrum of human experience,
because life is too precious to be spent only
in pursuit of productivity. Today, I'm excited
to talk to Mike Perrotti. Mike is a product designer
at Datadog living in Brooklyn with an assortment
of plants and reptiles, a cat, and a loving partner
who tolerates it all. He spends his weekends
in his lush greenhouse by day and on dark, foggy
dance floors by night. Before moving to New York
in 2012, he studied art in Philadelphia, then
fell sideways into UI design and front-end development.
He later went on to become a major contributor
to various design systems, including GitHub's
Primer. Along the way, he developed a pattern
of picking up hobbies and going completely and
shamelessly overboard with them. His houseplant
hobby snuck up on him and, predictably, spiraled
into an obsession. Mike, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Guy. Nice to meet you. It's rare that
somebody will let me just come on and talk about
plants. Yeah, I heard about your show and I thought
I have picked up so many little things I do
outside of work through the years. I could have
picked a multitude of topics, but my current
thing is plants. I go through phases and sometimes
the things stick and sometimes I kind of leave
them behind. Like I went through a printmaking
phase. I still do some printmaking, but not as
much as I used to. So now I spend all my time
doing stuff with my plants. So specifically,
I focus mostly on tropicals. So things like philodendrons,
anthuriums. I love a begonia. Some monsteras,
but I don't know. I feel like monsteras are a
little oversaturated right now. I feel like every
week there's a new bizarre form of monstera coming
out that they're trying to charge $1,000 for.
But yeah, in the bio it says like it snuck up
on me. What happened was my therapist actually
recommended, hey. your depression's really bad
this year, like seasonal depression, why don't
you try some greenery? And I was like, all right,
I'll give it a shot. Like how hard can a plant
possibly be to take care of? Like I have a gecko,
a snake, a lizard. I feel like if I can make
a arboreal gecko from an island off the coast
of Australia survive in a Brooklyn apartment,
surely I can deal with a plant. So I got one
that I just thought looked pretty because I didn't
know much about them at the time. And it was
a Maranta, which is a type of Calathea. They
have really, really pretty leaves. And anybody
who knows about plants heard me say Calathea
and thought, oh, no, why did you make that your
first plant? Because they are extremely fussy.
They attract pests. I set myself up for heartbreak.
So I killed that one. And I was like, what? How
did I kill this? I can keep all these other more
advanced things alive, but not this one. And
I was like. it was so pretty i want to try it
again and i just kind of became stubborn and
then i eventually realized oh because you're
you're trying to take on this complicated thing
let's let's scale it back a little and try an
easier philodendron and then from there i was
as i was doing more research about the care and
their natural environments i was like oh i thought
the lighting in my house was enough light for
these plants but No, then I got grow lights and
then I was like, oh, if I can keep these alive,
maybe I can like be bold and get some of the
more expensive, fancy, rare plants. And that's
when it just like blew up. And then right around
that time, COVID hit. And not just me, like the
entire world kind of had a little mini tulip
mania over plants. And the same thing happened
to me. I would just look forward to. getting
new shipments and unboxing them and having new
plants and taking care of them. And then that
same year, my landlord basically kicked everyone
out of the building because I was the only one
paying rent. But it ended up being a blessing
in disguise because the next place I got had
a backyard or more like a patio. So then I was
like, oh, well, this is a whole other realm for
me to keep plants. I'm not limited to my... Brooklyn
apartment and getting as close to a window as
possible. So yeah, it just kind of blew up and
it comes and goes in phases. And the nice thing
is it does mesh well with keeping reptiles because
my gecko, for example, he is from a tropical
climate. He loves high humidity. And I converted
his... enclosure into something called a bioactive
vivarium so that's where it's kind of a self
-sustaining ecosystem it's a big planted beautiful
terrarium looking thing it has something living
in it though it has my gecko and then it has
a bunch of teeny little bugs you can barely see
and the bugs are like the cleanup crew they clean
up all the any dead plant matter and you know
gecko poop and then the gecko poop fertilizes
everything And then since I naturally have to
keep it humid, that's just, it's like my cheat
code for when I get like a really difficult orchid
or a really difficult tropical plant that can't
even survive in my little Ikea cabinet. It goes
in there and it will thrive. So yeah, it just,
it worked out really well. And I've had to, at
certain times stop myself and be like, wait,
you're treating this more like a collector thing
where you are trying to just collect things because,
I don't know, you like hold them in some level
of status. Not status for myself, but like, ooh,
I want that really rare hard to get player. Like
for a while, I've really wanted this thing called
Monstera Thai Constellation. You've almost certainly
seen them. They're like a regular Monstera, the...
you know, leaves with the holes in them, but
it's very speckly. And that's called variegation.
It's very speckly, like whites, yellows, creams.
And this plant used to be thousands of dollars.
Sometimes you'd get lucky and find it for upper
hundreds. And I was like, well, that's nice,
but I'm not going to drop that much money on
a plant. And the other nice thing about it is
it's got stable variegation, which means though
that coloring is genetic so as it grows it will
stay variegated some plants they will start out
that way and then as they grow they will lose
that coloring and you have to it's hard to get
back you can maybe get it back if you trim it
or prune it but yeah so i i didn't i didn't get
that but i really really wanted it and it was
like the it plant for a while And I was like,
wait, do I want this because it's pretty or because
it's the it plant? And then nowadays, there's
a company in Florida called Costa Farms. They
got them into tissue culture. which is how you
can mass produce plants and now you could pick
one up at walmart for like $25 so i got mine right
when they got into tissue culture i didn't pay
$25 but i didn't pay more than 100 so i was noticing
like oh you seem to be getting hung up on the
preciousness and rarity of these things don't
be a collector these are not baseball cards these
are not even records these are these are like
these beautiful things that you tend to and care
for And I started getting into plans for mental
health reasons. And then if I feel like if I'm
turning it into more of a collection, yeah, I
feel like if I don't have the right mindset towards
it, like if I don't treat it as an outlet and
something I do, then it kind of loses the point.
It just feels not as much fun. So yeah, that's
like a little background. Usually I like to start
with the origin story. How did you get into
it? But you already touched on that. Yes, I did
touch on that. I'm actually curious to go a bit
further back before getting into plants was greenery
and trees and plants and nature. Was that part
of your world? A little bit. I mean, I'm very,
very much a city boy. But even since I was a
kid, like when I was growing up. My dad's side
of the family had a trailer out like basically
in the middle of the woods in Pennsylvania. And
we would go out there like we lived in West Orange,
which is a suburb of New York, like right next
to Newark. So even though it's not like full
on city, it's still very urban. So when I was
growing up, there'd be weekends where we'd go
to the trailer in Pennsylvania. And it was just
like the luscious, greenest, most naturey thing.
I can still smell it now. Like I love the smell.
That's another thing in my gecko vivarium. When
I open it up and smell it, I can smell that like
peaty, organic, earthy smell. And it just is
so soothing. So yeah, back then I would do that.
And over the summers, even before I got into
plants, I would go camping with my friends along
the Delaware River. And then I discovered that
they have gay campgrounds in Pennsylvania, which
is a real hell of a time. So I got even more
into that. And then I used to be a lot more into
yoga. So I'd go on yoga retreats upstate. And
I love nature. I find it like it's a really pleasant
place for me. And I love rural stuff. But I'm also
just such a city boy. I couldn't constantly be
surrounded by nature. I don't know. Maybe I could
someday. But now I like being able to go to Broadway
and art shows and raves and whatnot. So, yeah,
I have had a connection with nature. But as I
said, total Yankee city boy. So what made you
pick that first plant you got? I forget which
plant store. Oh, it's probably the one by my
house in Bed-Stuy. But I just went into a plant
store. I looked around and I saw this plant that
had this really beautiful foliage. So a Maranta,
also called a prayer plant. I got the green version
too. There's usually you see them and it's like
an oval shaped leaf. And then there are like
through the leaf, there's these stripes. It's
like just a very beautiful pattern. So usually
those stripes are a crimson red. but this one
it was like a light neon green and it just looked
it almost looked fake and they almost are a little
bit velvety too like it's not glossy it looked
like a a fake plant almost it just the patterning
was so gorgeous and i was like whoa this is a
thing that nature just made i don't know the
evolutionary reasoning for the way the foliage
looks but i was just like blown away by it And
I was like, why do people like flowers? Foliage
is so much nicer. So yeah, I was just really
into the foliage. And I thought, oh, it would
be cool. It would be cool to have this in my
house rather than like a boring snake plant or
a pure green pothos. Your direction has been
foliage rather than focusing on flowers or...
Yeah, flowers, I just... They seem a lot more
complicated with the nutrients. Also, they need
way more light than I could ever provide. So
I live on the bottom floor of a brownstone in
Brooklyn. There's two windows in the front and
two tiny windows in the back in our bedroom.
I get no natural light, which is not good. because
that means i have to use a lot of grow lights
i i have like a grow light budget i don't even
pay my electric my landlord does but i just feel
like it's so wasteful to use all this energy
to grow plants it feels like i'm hurting the
environment to mimic the environment in my house
flowers just would not work for me my dad is
a very talented gardener and grower and he does
all the fancy like nutrients and stuff to get
things to produce fruit or flowers, but I was
just like, no, I just, I just want the tropical
stuff. It also, I think besides the fact that
it's like, it grows in the understory and it
can deal with lower light. Most of these plants,
like most philodendrons will grow very easily.
You don't need to do that much for them. And
it just kind of fits in with the, the like interior
design aesthetic of my apartment. These plants
are things I can put in my reptile enclosures
and they will work well. So yeah, I think that's
why I picked those. And now that I mentioned
how they fit in with my aesthetic, it also made
me remember that a few years ago, as I was a
few years into my plant journey, I realized there
were parallels between... designing UI or like
systems and UI and keeping plants. So like, I
know that sounds wild and it doesn't actually
sound possible, but like in my house, if I wanted
to, I could grow whatever I wanted, make it gorgeous
and make it like a really healthy plants. But
then I would have to have like this. ugly blue
red lighting and like plasticky grow tents my
apartment might get humidity and moldy so it's
like yeah you can so that would be like if you
built a website with straight up html no css
it's like yeah it's performant it's accessible
all that good stuff but then it's like yeah but
it looks like crap what i have to do is i have
to work with the harsh environment of my of my
apartment which is kind of like working in the
harsh environment of browsers and be like all
right here's the tools available to us i can
i can't just like take like i have some anthuriums
which are these beautiful south american plants
with like this silvery veining and they're like
velvety leaves i would love to just put that
right on my coffee table and it would look beautiful
but it would also die so it's like if you go
too far in the other direction you're like i'm
just gonna place things where they look cute
those plants are probably gonna die especially
in the winter when my humidity gets down to like
10 so it's like all right i have to figure out
how to cluster these things so that it makes
the watering easier that's another thing maintenance
i have a whole system in the winter of like where
i put things because i have i did a count two
weeks ago And I have 159 plants. So watering
all of those and caring for all of those, especially
because there's a lot of divas in that mix. It's
a lot. So I have to like plan out where I put
things based on their needs. Lighting is the
biggest thing. Like, as I said, I have a budget
for how many watts I will let myself have with
grow lights. So I'm like, all right, these highly
variegated plants. are going to get clustered
right here under my like super strong grow light.
And then things like orchids and calatheas and
certain begonias. I'm like, you guys can deal
with the lower lighting. You're going to go here.
Or a pothos or something. I'm like, yeah, that
shady corner over there, that's fine for you.
So I have to like balance out what's going to
look good, what's going to be maintainable, and
most importantly, how are the plants going to
survive in that? So it's kind of like, it's a
push and pull. I can't just enforce whatever
I want on them, but I also don't want to optimize
my apartment for plants and have it look like
a, you know, grow house or something. You mentioned
that you don't want this to become another collection.
How do you keep yourself from going, you know,
over that boundary? A little bit of it is the
shame of like, I get a shipment of a plant and
my boyfriend's like... how much is that plant
so or like you know i live with my boyfriend
he has to live there too and i think when i when
i bring everything in from outside for the summer
there's just a look on his face of like oh my
god what why is this living room a jungle now
he does like it but at first he's like oh my
god i forgot that there was this much greenery
so there's a little bit of shame but also it's
very easy to just remind myself you're not doing
this for the material part of it like you're
not doing this just to have like some really
hot looking plants you're doing this because
it feels really good to take care of something
and watch it grow like oh the satisfaction i
get when i see a new leaf unfurling it's just
so incredible because it's it's i know that like
i only had a part in making that happen the plant
did all the work but especially when i have a
very challenging plant like there are some times
where i'm like why am i doing this to myself
this plant is such a diva but when i can get
those to behave well i'm just like oh i feel
so good about myself the foliage is beautiful
it's also a slightly meditative time for me.
It used to be every Thursday night, my routine
would be, all right, we're stopping work at a
reasonable hour tonight, and we're going to spend
a few hours doing plant stuff, mostly watering
and nutrients and whatnot. So I just remind myself,
you're in this more for the care and cultivation
and less for the having things. So another thing
that helps with that is, like I was saying earlier,
I kind of have to plan up. plan my setup and
think how things will work together. I have an
Ikea cabinet that I converted into a greenhouse.
I installed some fans, lights, a humidity system.
And I'm finding that it's just as much fun to
take what I already have, the plants I already
have, and make nice terrariums for them or just
do things to make them look nice, but with the
same constraints of their health needs in mind.
like i have some begonias that are have blown
up they've gotten so big they're outgrowing their
terrariums but it was really fun to like make
the little terrariums and they look so pretty
especially when i remember to prune them they
look so nice and i'm like oh yeah it's fun to
have these little things and then it's like oh
i've created like this little self-sustaining
environment like my begonias that i made terrariums
for they are they're in there because they just
need so much humidity and they need such consistent
conditions so even though they are known to be
very difficult diva plants they just thrive once
i set everything up and as i said it's just to
watch something grow to watch a leaf unfurl is
so satisfying my favorite leaf to watch unfurl
or to grow and harden is an anthurium
leaf because they start off really tiny like
an inch or two when they first come out and unfurl
and then they're usually like a deep deep red
and the veining is very subtle and every day
you'll see it get a little bigger and a little
greener and the veining becomes more prominent
like i really want to do a what's it called stop
motion i guess it's yeah stop motion where you
take like a photo every few seconds i really
want to do one of those of an anthurium growing
i think it would be gorgeous but i just haven't
like taken the time to set do the setup but yeah
it's just like it's so pretty to watch And back,
I worked at home for eight years. So that's another
reason why my collection got so big. But I worked
at home for eight years. And sometimes I would
just stop what I was doing because I'd get stressed
out and move over into the living room and just
look into my cabinet, see what's going on. And
it's like, yeah, this is the part I like. I like
creating this environment and having like this
kind of zen thing to watch and grow with. So
you said you had 159 plants at home? I do, yes.
And that is quite a complex system of maintenance,
of what can be with what, lighting and all that.
What sort of considerations go into getting your
160th plant? How many Excel spreadsheets do you
have to consult to know what to get? I actually
started making a spreadsheet a few years ago.
And then halfway through, I was like, I don't
want to do this. This is dumb. Like, it was like,
no, I... I should not have to make an Excel spreadsheet
for a hobby. Actually, I do love a spreadsheet,
but I was just like, so if I was to get 160th
plant, there's no plans right now. It's a balance
of factors. It's like, is there a space that
is available? Usually the answer would be no.
Is there a place I can put this? Why do I want
this 160th plant? What makes this so special?
How expensive is it? And what's the care like?
So yeah, it's mostly about space, cost, and how
much attention it's going to need. I recently,
I did get a new plant recently. I've slightly
like, I wouldn't say sworn off plants, but I
have been trying to curb my buying. And recently
I got my top wishlist plant. It's been on my
list for... I don't know, since like the beginning,
probably since like 2020, 2021. And I had been
waiting so long to get it because I was like,
all right, let's hold off. Maybe it'll go into
tissue culture. But this plant is notoriously
difficult. Like it will not go into tissue culture.
It's called a philodendron ilsemanii. It's from
South America, but it's mostly like the grower
who's best known for cultivating it is. kunzo
i forget his last name but he's a japanese plant
person and he's been producing them and i saw
that there's a nursery in detroit rare plant
fairy she's been cultivating them as well and
she like if there's a plant that's about to be
really hot she's usually the one where you'll
see it start to drop in price on her site so
i was like oh rare plant fairy has them now she's
put out like a few in the past year Over time,
she's been putting them out. I'm like, I'm going
to wait until it gets a little less expensive.
The price dropped pretty drastically a few years
ago. It used to be like almost $1,000 for a
teeny tiny one. And it recently got down to like
$400. And then I saw a really tiny one for $300.
And I was like, all right, these are never going
to go into tissue culture. I've wanted one for
forever. I've read conflicting things. I've read
they have stable variegation, but I've also read
they have chimeric variegation. So I'm like,
I think this will keep its variegation, but I'm
not sure. I couldn't find... Chimeric variegation
is where it can grow out and just become all
green. So I was like, all right, you've wanted
this for years. It's the growing season, so it's
a safe time to get it. However, it is a bit of
a diva, mostly because it loves consistent conditions.
And also I was buying one on the cheap. So it
was a teeny tiny baby. And those are even harder
to care for. So I was like, all right, it's the
growing season. You have space in your IKEA cabinet.
You will have enough time to make sure it is
in good condition. So I finally got that one.
And I was like, OK, I have my top wish list plant.
Like, are there other plants I want? Yeah. But
do I need them? God, no. But the other thing
I'll take into account is last year I built a,
have you seen a vertical like green wall, like
a plant wall? You've seen those before? Yep.
So I built my own because as I was starting last
like August planning out, bringing everything
back inside, I was like, I want to like go a
little further. with the presentation of these
like i used to have them on like these little
shelves i was like i want to do a green wall
i bet i could pull that off so i did some research
and i made one and like over the winter when
i normally don't buy plants because my apartment
is just hostile and they have to acclimate but
over the winter i would notice oh there's some
spots in here that i could fill in and i would
go to a nursery and get like you know a cheap
five to fifteen dollar pothos to just stick in
there to fill out that area because as i mentioned
earlier you have to plan things based on the
lighting and it's not that i didn't have enough
plants to fill the space i totally could have
it's just like there were spaces in the green
wall that i didn't have anything that would fit
there so i think what can handle these care requirements
and usually the things that can go in those empty
spaces were cheaper. So it's about like, is
there like, is there an aesthetic reason to add
plants? And usually, usually I can fill those
spaces with the cheaper ones. So with so many
plants in your apartment, how impossible is it
for you to go on vacation or even in the future
move out? That's a very good question. So I do
get a little stressed out when I'm on vacation,
not a lot, just a little. But the thing is, I,
you know, I had a hard enough time finding somebody
who would come take care of my reptiles while
I was on vacation. Like some places were just
like, you want us to do what? But yeah, there's
a pet care service in Brooklyn. They know who
I am. They're like, oh, you're the lizard guy.
Yes, I'm the lizard guy, I guess. But yeah, so
that is hard enough. And then I asked, there's
this guy who runs a beautiful store in Brooklyn
called Brooklyn Horticulture. I asked him, I
was like, hey, do you know somebody who could
like. I would pay them to come water my plants
while I'm in Japan for two weeks. He's like,
no, the only person I know only does Park Slope.
I was like, okay. So I can't get anyone to come.
So what I do is I just do my best before I leave
to make sure they're set up. Most things, they
don't even want to be watered. I'm rarely gone
for more than two weeks. They don't even want
to be watered that often. So I just make sure
they're nice and watered. all my grow lights
are on a timer so i don't have to worry about
that or if they're outside the sun does its thing
being the sun but yeah i it's mostly the watering
and then there is a little system i have where
it's these like tubes it's the gravity feeds
so it's like these little pvc tubes i just put
a thing of water high up and then feed the tubes
into the thirstier girls like my alocasias they
do not like to dry out well most of them don't
like to dry out or calatheas some begonias yeah
so like certain things i'll be like all right
you're gonna get the tube the rest of you i'm
just watering and hoping for the best and then
when i get home from vacation one of the first
things i do i put down my suitcase i run over
to my ikea cabinet because that's where the diva
girl that's where the fancy ones are i'm like
all right all right let's see what is the carnage
And I think I've figured it out because the last
few times hasn't really been that bad. The ones
that usually suffer when I'm gone are the alocasias
because they like very consistent conditions.
And I'm just like, all right, an alocasia lost
a few leaves. But the other nice thing about
those is they're tubers, so they grow from bulbs.
And I think that's part of the reason why they
come back so easily. Those and begonias, if I
see those lose a bunch of leaves, I'm like, oh.
it's fine. I'll just baby you for a little bit
and you'll spring back to life. So yeah, it's
stressful, but I just hope for the best. Because
as a reminder, I'm like, this is something that
should be bringing you joy and making you happy,
not adding stress to your life. Do your pets
ever get to enjoy the plants? Do the worlds collide?
The worlds certainly collide for my gecko. So
he has, as I described earlier, a bioactive ovarian,
which requires plants. He gets some really nice
plants in there. My bearded dragon likes it really
dry or pretty dry. So there's not, I don't really
do cacti or succulents that much. She has one
like non-spined cactus in there, but I'm just
going to take it out. I just take it out and
put it in the backyard for more sun over the
summer. It just kind of sits there. It's not
a whole big display presentation like it is for
the gecko. My snake, I have not even attempted
to plant in her enclosure because I know she'll
just destroy it. And then I did try and switch
my... I have a blue-tongued skink, which is
like... I call it a lizard burrito. It's like
this big, fat, thick lizard with these little
legs. I've tried planting in her enclosure before
because they actually will... Some people get
really fancy and they will grow little herb gardens
and they let their blue-tongued skink eat the
herbs. So I tried that and she was just like,
nah, I'm gonna wreck this. So those don't collide
as much. My cat, I'm very lucky. My cat leaves
my stuff alone. So there's a lot of plants that
I just can't have in my cat's way because...
Some of them are toxic to cats. So I have to
think about that when I'm placing plants too.
But thankfully, she will leave things alone unless
it's like long grass-like looking fronds. Like
I have this thing called a ponytail palm. It
looks like a bunch of blades of grass bursting
out of a tree stump. And she just loves to chew
on that. Or she'll just go and sniff it. So like
she'll... I don't even know why she does it.
She like chews it up and then I'll find it like
little chewed leaves next to it. I'm like, you're
not even eating it. What are you doing? So my
cat loves to chew it, but she's just kind of
like, oh, yep, these are here. I'm assuming your
plants take over multiple areas of your apartment.
No, I mostly condense them to my living room
because as I said, I do live with my boyfriend.
So I'm like, I can't take over the entire apartment.
So I have like the gecko vivarium is in my office,
which is like I have a railroad style apartment.
So the office is right off of the living room.
So like the gecko vivarium is in there, but everything
else I have a plant wall by like in place of
my non-working fireplace, like under the mantle.
Then I've got the Ikea cabin in the living room.
I've got a little corner where the tall plants
go next to a chair. It's a great little reading
nook. And then there's a shelf above my couch.
and then i have hanging baskets in my window
so it's like this is the space you have to work
with you can't be expanding into the bedroom
or the kitchen i mean because it's a railroad
style apartment and we only have those two windows
up front it would just be it would be wasteful
to have stuff in the kitchen or bathroom because
there's no windows i'd have to do grow lights
and then the bedroom it's just like i i've kind
of like the living room is my space and i feel
like the bedroom is my boyfriend's space it's
like his crap is just all over there so i'm like
you you have the bedroom do whatever you want
let me just have the living room so it's mostly
confined to the living room do you ever go out
and experience other people's plants and vice
versa have people over what's your relationship
with the community of of plant people sadly i
don't know a lot of other plant people so there's
this one guy i know from like the music scene and
robert valera he is a very talented musician
but he's also really into frogs and plants like
he's kind of living my dream his job is that
he goes to like big like restaurants or he did
a big installation in vegas he just does beautiful
plant installations so whenever i see him at
a show we'll be like oh my god we can nerd out
about plants like we never get to do this so
i know him and then i am pretty friendly with
uh the owner of brooklyn horticulture which is
a like plant studio but also a plant store like
last time there was an equigenera sale equigenera
is a grower from ecuador they do like pop-ups
all over the world and they're always when they're
in new york they're always at brooklyn horticulture
and it was so rainy i was waiting in line and
he came outside and he saw me and he just gave
me a little nod of like hey want to cut the line
and i was like oh my god i feel like a plant
celebrity but other than that i just will like
talk to people online through instagram just
like people who i've come across or like one
of my friends moved to portland recently and
introduced me to one of his friends there who
also has a snake and he has a greenhouse. And
I think he even works in plants, but he'll like
post photos of his plants and we'll just talk
a lot about them. Like, oh my God, how did you
get your Anthurium Vechii that gigantic? And
how does it deal with the winter? So yeah, like
there's a few people I talk to online. There's
only two people I really know in person. Also,
I try not to, like, I don't really do the...
instagram plant thing like that's a very popular
thing like people will just have big instagrams
of plants and there's like plant influencers
and i'm just not a social media person and i
also find that that community can be not nearly
as toxic and awful as the reptile people but
the plant i'm just like i don't really want to
engage it's just a lot of snobbery and weird
opinions So yeah, it's mostly those two people
and then a few randos I meet online who seem
to have the same approach to it as I do. So looking
back, would you say your therapist's recommendation,
was that a good thing? I think it was. I wasn't
expecting it to be. I thought I'd be like, I'll
be bored of this in a minute. I won't even care
about this. So I think it was. The other thing
that it helped with is... the grow lights in
the winter kind of act like a bonus sad lamp
so i used to have one of those seasonal affective
disorder lamps on my desk i was too embarrassed
to use one when i was in an office but i would
use one in my house and then i was like wait
i already have like a 35 watt led shining on
me right now and i do think like the past few
years when i started to like bulk up my grow
lights and the greenery in my living room it
has certainly helped with my mood so like in
the winter when it's you know sleeting and 20
degrees outside and i just am in my living room
and i lay on my couch and look up around at the
lush tropical jungle around me it's so nice and
it does feel like a bit of a sanctuary like i
know it's not probably not good for my back to
work on my couch but sometimes i'll go over to
my couch just to be in the room with all the
plants but it's a little bit of a double-edged
sword because yeah those parts are calming but
also as i mentioned i've had to like catch myself
and be like is this a love or is it an obsession
i want it to be more of a love i don't want it
to be like a i'm coveting these rare special
plants because then i think it becomes actually
an obsession it's not healthy and it will just
cause me more stress and also every i mean i'm
kind of joking but every november-ish after
i bring the plants in in winter setting in there's
a period where everything will like slow down
and die back a little and every year i'm like
oh my god it's the season of death like what
what plants are gonna fall victim every year
i've gotten better at preventing that from happening
but there are certain plants where it's just
a natural part of their life cycle like caladiums
i have no business having caladium they're a
total outside tropical beautiful plant but you
can enjoy them in the spring and summer but then
you have to harvest the bulbs or just keep the
soil really good and then they'll come back like
they'll die in the winter and they'll come back
in the summer but other things it's just like
oh they were enjoying bright light and high humidity
outside and now i'm telling them nope you're
getting 10 humidity and we're getting like i
don't know eight hours of sunlight Mike, where
can people find you? That is a great question.
So as I said, I'm really not a social media person.
I just don't really use it. I just kind of lurk
and comment a little on Reddit. But I can share
my LinkedIn. That's a good way to get a hold
of me. My personal website is in a desperate,
desperate need of being redone. So I will not
share that. But aren't all of our personal websites
desperately needing to be redone? But anyway,
yeah, I'll share LinkedIn. I could share Instagram.
You'll be very bored if you follow me. I don't
really post, but sometimes I will post some plant
stuff. Like, oh, last year I got my, I have a
Hoya called a Compacta Carnosa, aka Hindu rope.
And Hoyas can be a little tricky to get to flower,
but when they do... Oh my God, it's stunning.
I posted that a few times on Instagram. It's
like these ball-shaped clusters of these really
intricate, beautiful pink flowers. And it looks
like green ropes with big pink pom-pom balls
attached to it. So yeah, maybe you'll get some
cute plant photos. But yeah, you're not going
to get much out of me from social media. And
that is totally fine. Yes. Thank you so much
for joining us today. Thank you so much for having
me. I will jump at any opportunity to ramble
on about plants. This is all for this episode
of Design Downtime. Thank you for joining me.
And until next time, I hope you enjoy your downtime.