1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Hello, it is the Queer Talks Podcast Episode Two. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,360 Yes, who's ready for it? 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:37,720 Yes, so on the way on this podcast, we're going to have a very, very special guest, Milo Mars, 4 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:47,720 talking all things, what it's like being an autistic trans man in the community and art he does for the trans community, 5 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,480 how we use his art to document being trans. 6 00:00:52,480 --> 00:01:03,880 And of course, we're going to be talking all things, how autism, kink and just being queer, porn, stuff like that intersects together, 7 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,920 which is going to be absolutely amazing. 8 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:15,520 So there are ways to get in touch with this podcast, Queer Talks Podcast with Kai at gmail.com, 9 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:27,440 on Instagram, Queer Talks Podcast, on Twitter, Queer Talks Pod, and of course, on Facebook, Queer Talks with Kai. 10 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,040 Leave a review on what you think about the podcast. 11 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:36,520 And if you like what you hear, please spread the word of the podcast. 12 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:42,400 And of course, if there's any topic you want me to talk about, please get in touch. 13 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,640 We'll try and get the relevant guests to talk about the certain topic. 14 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:55,880 And yeah, it will be hopefully a good episode and thought provoking, which I want this podcast to be all about. 15 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,080 So there's a couple of things I want to say before I get my guests on. 16 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Apologies for the music overpowering my voice on episode one. 17 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:11,480 I am new to podcasting, so I am learning everything about podcasting. 18 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:17,960 As you know now, I do a little introduction, then play the tunes, the little intro, and then I continue speaking. 19 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,680 So yeah, apologies about that. 20 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,000 It is episode one, though. 21 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,600 And as I say, I am learning. 22 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:33,160 And also a big, big well done to Stefan for the Mr. Lever London 2024 title. 23 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,200 Absolutely amazing. 24 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Huge, huge congratulations to Stefan. 25 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:46,480 Sadly didn't win, but as an autistic man, I went out on my comfort zone in a good way and I made my voice heard. 26 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,840 Me and Chris are still going to continue our project for me. 27 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,600 My project is all about making disability friendly events in London. 28 00:02:54,600 --> 00:03:00,000 And it is a bit more difficult due to the architecture of the buildings. 29 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,960 But I will try and get something sorted. 30 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,160 And yeah, hopefully Stefan will be a future guest to talk all things about his project. 31 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,320 I need to send him a little invite. 32 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,400 But yes, got all this talk out of the way. 33 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,280 No time to waste. 34 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:22,440 Let's get my guest on the lovely Milo Mars on the Queer Talk podcast episode two. 35 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,320 And welcome to the second episode of Queer Talks with Kai. 36 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,000 And today I am with a very, very special guest, Milo Mars. 37 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,880 Hello, Milo. 38 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,600 Hey, hey there. 39 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,800 How are you doing? 40 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,280 I'm doing good. 41 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,080 That's great. 42 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,640 How are you? 43 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:42,920 Good, also thank you. 44 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:48,000 Yeah, so for people who may not know about you, explain a bit about yourself. 45 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:58,480 Oh, I'm an artist and a trans and kink educator that currently does porn too, now and again 46 00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,840 online. 47 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:12,160 And I've recently been working on a project with educating within trans health care to 48 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:25,000 try and help people understand, I guess, bottom surgery and other stuff that trans people 49 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,200 don't necessarily always talk about. 50 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:29,200 Yeah. 51 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,080 Yeah, that's amazing. 52 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:37,040 So we've got so many questions to get through in this episode, a bit about being autistic 53 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:46,240 and trans and of course how, as an autistic man, it influenced your interest in kink, 54 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,880 leather and porn. 55 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,520 So yeah, there's no time to waste. 56 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:56,240 So my first question is to you, because as someone with Asperger's, I can understand 57 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:03,600 we have our own troubles, but then being trans as well, I can imagine you have your own troubles 58 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,040 in that sense too. 59 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:15,280 So how can you share a bit about your journey, both discovering both your autism and transgender 60 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:22,320 identity and how it came to understanding and embrace these aspects of your life? 61 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:30,240 Well, from an early age, I've experienced masculinity and gender in itself through a 62 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,840 different lens that I assume a lot of the kids might have been experiencing their gender 63 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:37,840 expressions. 64 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:50,960 I never really understood gender social norms or specifically why I myself, being born assigned 65 00:05:50,960 --> 00:06:01,160 female at birth, why I should have to uphold certain traditional stereotypes. 66 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:10,880 When I was a young child, I was perfectly fine with being able to express that. 67 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:19,280 My current interests, I was very much into action figures and play in army with my other 68 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:25,040 friend and stuff until kids will be kids. 69 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:31,880 I used to get bullied quite a lot and get questioned, are you a boy or are you a girl? 70 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:40,000 And it kind of took me aback and I was like, well, I see myself as more masculine and somewhere 71 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,000 in between. 72 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:49,920 I wouldn't come to the notion that I was non-binary until I was about 20. 73 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:55,320 But from that early age, I knew specifically who I was. 74 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:03,440 But I mean, bullying, as bullies do, I'd eventually get bullied into the closet. 75 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,880 And the same kind of happened with my autism as well. 76 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:18,360 I remember being quite young and getting asked by a child that used to be friends with my 77 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,520 mum, because my mum used to be friends with her mum. 78 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:31,280 And they had an autistic brother who was experiencing a lot more, I guess, experiencing autism in 79 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:32,960 a different way. 80 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:38,680 It was more profound in its way to say it affected their family. 81 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:46,320 And her mum and my mum would talk and be like, well, James is going through this. 82 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,960 And so she knew I was autistic. 83 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:51,960 I had no clue. 84 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Because my parents hid it from me. 85 00:07:54,280 --> 00:08:02,760 They kind of were in the way of thinking that if I didn't know that I was autistic, I wouldn't 86 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,320 be held back. 87 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:14,520 Of course, we know scientifically every autistic person has actual neurodiverse qualities that 88 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:20,000 are sort of intricate within neuroscience and the way that the brain is formed. 89 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:28,240 So I was going through things like sensory overload and social issues, not understanding 90 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,040 that there was a reason for that. 91 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,520 And she goes to me, my friend, at the time, like, do you get the stamp at Lego land? 92 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,200 And all the class kind of laugh. 93 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,960 And I'm like, yes, I do. 94 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:41,960 How do you know that? 95 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,360 And she's like, oh, yeah, it's because you're autistic. 96 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,060 Everyone knew in that class that I was autistic. 97 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:50,360 It was kind of like a rumor at the time. 98 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,240 And I go to my parents and go, well, am I autistic? 99 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:04,240 And they kind of wanted to deny it at first, but yeah, they eventually they say. 100 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,240 And I sort of went into the closet of trying to mask. 101 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,640 So I didn't necessarily get any of the support. 102 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:21,440 And I sort of put myself through the whole trying to be quite and quite normal. 103 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:31,960 I feel like a lot of trans people, especially the ones that are kids and that do notice 104 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:38,160 that something is wrong with their identity and the correlation between that and autistic 105 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:44,960 people who are very much like they have their own way of doing things and are very like 106 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,560 set in their understanding of who they are. 107 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:57,200 They know exactly who they are, but they get bullied enough that they try to attempt to 108 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,880 to mold themselves out of that situation will later then transition. 109 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,800 And I don't know, like at least that was what happened with me. 110 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:13,600 So I guess that that is some of the issues that I've had at present now. 111 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:20,840 I don't know if I really have that many, many issues that kind of current side, I guess, 112 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,600 maybe social socializing. 113 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:31,360 I do worry often with social social groups, like even ones, even with friends at present 114 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:37,520 because of all of the bad experiences that I had as a child, the billion and the being 115 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,880 told that I couldn't be who I was. 116 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:49,840 I often feel like that I need to present in a more masculine fashion, even though I myself 117 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:57,600 just I'm a trans man that is incredibly queer and I don't really feel the need to be all 118 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,680 macho macho. 119 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:07,560 But some some guys might try to say that if I'm not necessarily macho macho, am I can 120 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:10,160 I truly call myself a man? 121 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,480 And you got the it that transphobia that might occur. 122 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:21,440 And to be honest, I haven't had that many bad experiences within the communities that 123 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,160 I am in. 124 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:29,400 And to be honest, like the majority of the people I talk to are probably going to be 125 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,480 really lovely, lovely people. 126 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:37,520 It just it's something that just exists within my brain as a pattern. 127 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:44,120 And I'm doing my best now that I've kind of transitioned to a point that I'm I'm comfortable 128 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:53,680 within my body to to be able to then go out and present in in the ways that I find joyful 129 00:11:53,680 --> 00:12:00,600 and really supportive of my autistic creativity. 130 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,520 So yeah, I don't know. 131 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,280 Yeah, that's great. 132 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:11,160 So I from my experiences, I know it's different, but as a gay guy, I feel like my autism helped 133 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,880 me be much more confident as a gay man. 134 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:22,040 Like, as you know, with autism, when you what's the word I'm trying to think of? 135 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:27,960 Like when you you well with my autism anyway, because autism is different for everyone, 136 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,160 but quite outspoken or from my experience anyway. 137 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,200 So when I knew I was a gay man, for me, I was very, very open with it. 138 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:44,160 So my question to you is as a as someone who's autistic and a trans man, do you think being 139 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,200 autistic influenced your experience of being trans and vice versa? 140 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:59,960 Yeah, because like, I don't know, like I I think my like my wanting to really belong 141 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:05,120 was a difficulty and at times has kind of dampened it. 142 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:15,600 I am finding my my sort of my my style, my fashion sense back after after not being able 143 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:23,640 to like to like be able to, I don't know, do makeup and really like love the feminine 144 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:32,600 things that exist within within the world that I quite like, like, for instance, Beyonce, 145 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,680 love Beyonce, but I used to not like like listening to music as a child, because like 146 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,680 I wouldn't listen to any female artists. 147 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:45,320 So like, people would tell me, no, you can't like that. 148 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,800 And my my autism definitely affected like the fact that I was able to like, say from 149 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,920 a very early age in like non-descript terms, because I didn't know what non binary as a 150 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:03,160 name was when when I was in primary school, but I was able to specifically say to the 151 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,360 kids around me, no, this is who I am. 152 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,800 People didn't like it. 153 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:14,960 And then to be honest, like, people are not always going to like who you who you are, 154 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,720 but they can shove it because I don't know. 155 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,240 As long as you're not hurting anyone. 156 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,240 Exactly. 157 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,920 What you want to do and being a trans man or trans woman, you're not hurting anyone. 158 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:29,920 Yeah, exactly. 159 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:30,920 You're just being yourself. 160 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:31,920 Yeah. 161 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:32,920 Yeah. 162 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,920 I don't know. 163 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,800 What else? 164 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:37,800 Trying to think. 165 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:48,480 I suppose also like maybe it's given me like ways of explaining very complex ideas to 166 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:58,320 say, like somebody that didn't necessarily have the sort of education or teach teaching 167 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,440 them like in a way like that, they didn't have the words. 168 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:09,520 So I'm able to describe something like gender, for instance, in a simpler way. 169 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,440 And I found that like helpful, I suppose. 170 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:18,040 Because with autism, you're like able to think outside the box a lot more. 171 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:27,240 At least that's what I have kind of best kind of like used my my autism creativity to try 172 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:37,080 and do within my art and just within my ability to to do education. 173 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:45,320 And I don't know, like, so I guess maybe maybe that like, for instance, some people on on 174 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:51,080 this podcast, like listening to this podcast, might not understand that like, well, yeah, 175 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,440 you can be a trans man and non binary. 176 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,320 Like, I kind of view my gender as pizza. 177 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:03,520 So like the male base, feminine topics, or whatever, whatever kind of clothes you want, 178 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,560 whatever kind of stuff you want, that there always be this base. 179 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,280 And my base just happens to be male, some base bases might be female, some bases might 180 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,080 be a mixed mixture of both. 181 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:21,320 And I think, yeah, sorry, this is tangent. 182 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,320 It's a tangent. 183 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:29,080 I've just tried to like, try it tried to like, answer the question to its fullest, whilst 184 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,080 also being unbelievably ADHD. 185 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,920 No, it's totally fine. 186 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:34,920 You're doing a good job. 187 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,920 Yeah, doing a good job. 188 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:37,920 God. 189 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,160 But yeah, no. 190 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:47,520 So stuff like that, and I feel like being able to have those like open and honest conversations 191 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,480 and come out like topics without necessarily. 192 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:59,760 I don't really get like angry at people for not being not having the understanding just 193 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:00,760 yet. 194 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,040 It's just as long as they're willing to learn and have an open ear. 195 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,080 It's, it's important. 196 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,080 Yeah, sorry. 197 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,400 Can I just say like, having people like you are important because as you know, I radio 198 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,320 present for a station called Trans Radio UK. 199 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,000 I've been with them for five years now. 200 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,960 And before that, I'm going to be completely honest, I never knew trans people are a thing. 201 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,320 So it was like non binary. 202 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,080 And I'm going to be open about this. 203 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,360 At the time, I didn't realize I upset someone who was trans because I didn't realize non 204 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:39,480 binary was the thing and me being stupid, not having an educational research, either 205 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,120 male or female, you can swap. 206 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:46,360 Well, I hate using that word, but that's because I was uneducated. 207 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,360 You can't. 208 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,840 I wouldn't call it stupid. 209 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:59,600 But I definitely uneducated in the in that but you know, I honestly, everybody is trying 210 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:06,160 to unload, unlearn a social program and that all of us was were brought up with I didn't 211 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,200 know what trans people were like, at all. 212 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:17,880 I think like the first time I ever saw a trans man was in a into some newspaper. 213 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,280 And it was this guy who's pregnant, he was a trans man, he had kids. 214 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,480 I just thought men could get pregnant. 215 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,680 I was like, Oh my god, that's really cool. 216 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,240 And go up to like, my like friends that were voices. 217 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,400 You'd better be careful. 218 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,520 You might get pregnant. 219 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:44,120 Not understanding that trans men were, say, you know, any from any different from any 220 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:49,480 other guy, because I just didn't didn't know that I could necessarily take hormones or 221 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,480 get surgery. 222 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:58,240 I even knew about intersex people before I knew who what trans people were. 223 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,800 So you know, like we all make mistakes. 224 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,480 And we all are on the same kind of path. 225 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,080 And it's really, really cool that you were able to get with trans radio, honestly. 226 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,480 They've told me a lot about the trans community. 227 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,360 And like, for example, you know, with Rocky Horror, how to use the word transfes, like 228 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:25,840 thanks trans radio UK, the owner, the owner and co owner, one's trans and one's a cis 229 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:26,840 woman. 230 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,120 So lovely if I have any questions, because I know I'm genuine, I'm not taking a piss. 231 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,440 They let me ask questions as well. 232 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,440 And they answer it. 233 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,800 So having someone where as long as you're being genuine, and they answer your questions, 234 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,240 I think that's great. 235 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,800 And like, I've learned a lot now. 236 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,860 And the last couple of years, I've kind of learned now. 237 00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:52,360 If you see my personal Twitter, I'm always standing up for the trans community. 238 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:57,120 I've learned now, the trans community need their voices heard. 239 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:01,560 As a cis man, I've got all the privilege. 240 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:07,760 So no matter if it's through my presenting or photography or whatever I can do, or like 241 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:13,480 this podcast now, I've got you on, so your voice is heard, then I will do my best as 242 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,920 a cis man with all the privilege I've got. 243 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,200 And honestly, thank you so much. 244 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,280 It's like, thank you for me being on here. 245 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,280 It's great. 246 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,840 And all of the work you do in the community. 247 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:25,840 It's brilliant. 248 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,840 Anytime. 249 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:27,840 Right. 250 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:35,160 So the next question I want to ask is, and one of them is, it's like, for me, being 251 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,760 autistic, there's a lot of misconceptions. 252 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,440 And from when I've spoke to trans people, there's a lot of misconceptions about being 253 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,080 trans as well. 254 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,120 So yeah, what are some of the most common misconceptions people have about being autistic 255 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,160 and trans and how do you address them? 256 00:20:53,160 --> 00:21:02,280 So I guess with misconceptions about being autistic is I don't like social situations. 257 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,280 No, I'm really extroverted. 258 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,280 I'm incredibly outgoing. 259 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:15,040 You'll often see me at the majority of your community meets, like the Leather England 260 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,840 community meet that happens every few months or so is lovely. 261 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:31,640 I have been known to go to a few community meets in the BDSM community in the West Midlands. 262 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:42,560 But a thing about social situations that I find hard is the social rules of the situation. 263 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:50,680 I don't necessarily know, like, for instance, if it would be okay if I could just like hang 264 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:58,040 on the outside of conversation and then jump in when people don't necessarily know that 265 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,600 I'm going to jump in and they might have not invited me to the conversation, so I usually 266 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,640 stay quiet. 267 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,600 Or for instance, things are too loud. 268 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:15,720 So I might stand on the outskirts of a room and like kind of be like that sort of wallflower. 269 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:22,600 But it doesn't mean that I'm necessarily introvert that's being kind of like made to go to these 270 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,600 events. 271 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,600 I like people. 272 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,680 I love people. 273 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:37,280 Really like at times listening to just different people's experiences and what's happening 274 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,280 within their day. 275 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,920 It brings me a lot of joy. 276 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:50,200 So I guess with autism, those kind of misconceptions that might prevent, say, like people inviting 277 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:56,440 autistic people to go to events or go out or come to our party. 278 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:03,320 And it's stuff that kind of prevents autistic people from feeling like they're able to go 279 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:11,800 to kink events because you get there and it's unbelievably loud or you get there and you 280 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:20,800 don't necessarily know if you're able to join in or not. 281 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:29,160 Stuff like the leather community, they meet at the fountain, lovely venue, run by some 282 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,240 amazing people there. 283 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,520 There's a beer garden. 284 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,600 So I would go out into the beer garden. 285 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,600 It's a little bit quieter. 286 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:43,080 And then you'd come back in to the main area if you want to listen to some music and stuff. 287 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,600 But if it gets too much, you always got that out. 288 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:53,040 So I often see this with my neurodiversion friends and we all go to like the Hunter in 289 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,680 London, for instance, has something similar like the cigar alley. 290 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,920 You go out there and things are just a lot shierter and you're able to then go back into 291 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,920 the party whenever you want. 292 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,880 This is kind of the thing that I really want event goers to understand that you probably 293 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,640 do need something along these lines that can benefit both the neurodiversion group, people 294 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,920 that do need that place as a means of relaxation. 295 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:31,120 And then the cigar smokers and the cigarette smokers that do want to use the space to smoke. 296 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,960 Best of both worlds. 297 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,160 It works for everybody. 298 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,240 The same with being trans, I guess. 299 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,840 Oh, God, there's misconceptions about that. 300 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,920 Say I don't know, like I get sometimes like it. 301 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,120 Can I talk about Grindr on here? 302 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,120 Is this? 303 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:56,120 Yeah. 304 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,120 Okay, cool. 305 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,120 I didn't know if this was. 306 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,280 Okay, that was maybe a stupid question. 307 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,440 We are talking about kink too and leather and whatnot. 308 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:13,080 I get like sometimes asked on Grindr, like, I don't want to be offensive, but what would 309 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:20,000 like asking me about like words or what should I call your parts? 310 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,280 And that's a perfectly normal question. 311 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:30,200 Like I get people that say I don't want to be offensive, but and it's like usually a 312 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,000 out of 10, it's not offensive to ask questions. 313 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:42,040 Actually it's quite nice that you are even bothering to ask me a question about my trans 314 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,040 identity. 315 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,400 Like it's best you just don't assume. 316 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:55,080 And sure, you'll get some trans people that might be offended and offence as everybody 317 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,200 like knows. 318 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,680 I guess we were all offended over different things. 319 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,920 And it's never going to be like a foolproof kind of, there's never going to be a foolproof 320 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,520 way of being able to approach a trans person on Grindr. 321 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,000 Just don't be a chaser. 322 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:21,160 Just don't like, I guess just assume that all trans men are okay with certain words. 323 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:28,760 That especially if they're like feminine words, most trans men are going to be pretty like 324 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,280 against that. 325 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,240 But then there are like anomalies. 326 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:39,160 There are trans men that are okay with just any, any, any unanotomical term. 327 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,520 It's just best to ask what would you like? 328 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,320 And most trans men are going to be completely okay with that. 329 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:55,680 And they're more likely to talk to you just knowing that you're not an asshole. 330 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,120 And I guess we've, we can cross that over to autism. 331 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:07,040 The whole not assuming because no autistic person is the same. 332 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:13,120 I might be, I might present my autism in different ways. 333 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:17,320 Sometimes, for instance, I sometimes stim in public. 334 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,720 Other autistic people don't stim in public. 335 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,680 Stimming is repetitive movement to self-serve. 336 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,000 So rocking back and forth for people that jiggle their legs in public because they're 337 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:39,320 trying to regulate themselves because it might be too noisy or people that stare off, you 338 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,920 know, some people do that. 339 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:41,920 Some people don't. 340 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:49,760 But to go up to an autistic person who has said that they're autistic and say, no, you're 341 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:57,480 not autistic because my, I know my neighbor, his son's autistic and his son is, insert 342 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,680 whatever, kind of stereotype about us. 343 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:07,960 I really don't want to even repeat these stereotypes because they're kind of defeatist. 344 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:16,200 If we want to sort of uphold all autistic experiences. 345 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:24,360 But, you know, saying something like that and refusing to kind of see a person's kind 346 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:34,600 of reality because they don't fit those kind of merits that you have held within your head 347 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,720 all this time because of the kind of social media that we kind of consume every day and 348 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:48,880 the things that like hate groups like Autism Speaks have said previously within the campaigns 349 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:54,280 about autistic people, it's not going to do anybody favors. 350 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:04,320 So just being open-minded and making both trans and autistic people feel able to express 351 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:10,440 their needs and just being an open ear is the best approach to any situation. 352 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,760 Yes, I can totally relate with the autism side of things. 353 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,920 I shared a meme recently which I found funny, but at the same time, it's so true. 354 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:27,360 There's this woman saying, oh, I have autism and then this guy said to her, oh, you don't 355 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,360 look autistic. 356 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:35,320 And then like, it was like, Oscar got grabbed to her and she said, thank you, thank you. 357 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:41,720 It's funny, but at the same time, it's kind of not because it's, as you say, a lot of 358 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,880 time, like for me, I'm high functioning, which is good, but I still have autism. 359 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:55,760 So I have many situations where I do things because of my autism and then people are like, 360 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:56,760 why are you doing that? 361 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,520 And I'm like, sorry, I can't help it. 362 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:08,000 I mean, the thing with, I mean, can I just like say something about functioning? 363 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:16,560 So I mean, within like the autistic community and within like just autistic research going 364 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:25,360 on currently, functioning labels have kind of been both positive, like it kind of helps 365 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:31,760 people to, so when you get diagnosed with autism, usually you get put within these bands. 366 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:38,160 So I think band one, which is like, you would be like high functioning, like people that 367 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,120 can quote unquote, like live a normal life. 368 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,760 And then you go up in severity and then like band two and band three, band three being 369 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:54,880 those that might need like more help, like carers that live, live at home with them or 370 00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:05,360 they live in like community, community, like community houses or like, like places where 371 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,040 like you got on site staff and things like that. 372 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:16,080 But with functioning labels, there isn't anything to say that a person that is high functioning, 373 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:23,820 like I'm technically could be classed as high functioning, can't then shift along the spectrum 374 00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:29,120 on different days, depending on, you know, have they eaten today? 375 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,640 What is the environment like? 376 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Is it bright lighting? 377 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,880 Like has, are they ruminating today? 378 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:44,000 Like, what are they like, what's digestion like, for instance, like, if I have a really 379 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,440 upset stomach, I can go really nonverbal, it's horrific. 380 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,280 And then on other days, I'm going to be a lot better because I'm engaging, for instance, 381 00:31:54,280 --> 00:32:03,000 my special interests, such as drawing or making, you know, smart and doing photography, like 382 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:10,720 I'm a lot happier and more able to like engage within a conversation if I am doing well, 383 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,120 but on other times you're not going to be. 384 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:20,800 So it's the autistic spectrum, I don't ever really believe and there are some other people 385 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:26,600 that would say this too, that you are ever just on one side of the spectrum. 386 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:36,360 It's always, you can be like kind of shifting depending on just the factors of that day. 387 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:46,480 So to bring it back to Kai, you're saying that, for instance, like high functioning, 388 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,440 but on other days you're like, I can't do this because of my autism, I'm really sorry. 389 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:58,480 And it's like, yeah, so you're not necessarily functioning that well in those situations, 390 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:05,580 but sometimes those situations you might be able to do it a bit better if you had this 391 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:11,720 or that adjustment or this or that like thing. 392 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,840 It really depends on the day, wouldn't you say? 393 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,560 Yeah, I totally agree. 394 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,400 I mean, I am high functioning, but I could have my dates when I... 395 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:31,920 Yeah, it's such a slidey experience and it's definitely one of the things that is a misconception 396 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:40,000 because I as a high functioning autistic person, if we're using that function in terms, I'm 397 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,960 not going to function on some things. 398 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:48,400 And then I actually like autistic burnout, which happens when you're not able to engage 399 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,680 within your autistic special interests for long. 400 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:57,400 There's a lot of stress, there's people that have misunderstood you and you go into like 401 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:03,440 a spiral rumination where you can't get out of it, that you just exhaust yourself and 402 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,440 sleep. 403 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:10,600 Like you can sleep all day and it can last for months to... 404 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:16,720 I've known friends that have had this happen for them for like two years of just burnout, 405 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:23,240 like neurodiverse burnout compared to work burnout for the neurotypical people. 406 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:30,800 Totally different because it is kind of skill regress. 407 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:38,400 But me being high functioning and me having had something like autistic burnout happen, 408 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,360 I would get people going, well, you're high functioning, so you shouldn't be having this 409 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,760 issue. 410 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:50,480 And it's like, ah, I can slide, I can be not good on some days. 411 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:58,280 And it's important to understand on those situations that a high functioning autistic 412 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:04,080 person, if they're going through something and they're not doing well, when on one day 413 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:12,160 they might have done well, just don't make it worse by questioning their validity to 414 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:18,800 say like having extra time doing something. 415 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:28,520 As long as they understood, they've said why and you're able to like, yeah, they're going 416 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,000 through something, but it's okay. 417 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:39,400 Same with people with low functioning, for instance, people that need more help. 418 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,400 I would like people to say that more, like they need more help rather than they're low 419 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,560 functioning, but they just need a little bit more help with different things to do something. 420 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:56,400 If they're having a better day, it would be pretty shitty if people went up to those people 421 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,440 and questioned their validity for their autism. 422 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:10,720 Even if that doing a little bit better on the day that they might, unusual struggle. 423 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:12,720 I rarely see that happen. 424 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,480 It's mostly the other way around, but that would be shitty. 425 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:25,640 So it's good to say, given autistic people, the benefit of the doubt that if they have 426 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:32,000 told you they need help or they need this or that, it's incredibly nerve wracking to 427 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,760 do that in the first place and they're not trying to be cheeky. 428 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:44,000 It's just the way it is. 429 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,200 So I am a bit conscious on time. 430 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,200 Sorry, sorry. 431 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,200 You said that has been amazing. 432 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:57,080 So I've got a couple more questions about being trans and autistic before we go on to 433 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,240 questions about kink, leather, porn as an autistic man. 434 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:09,160 So a couple more questions I wanted to ask was what are some ways allies like myself 435 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,240 can create a more inclusive and supportive environment for trans individuals as yourself 436 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:24,720 in their personal and professional lives? 437 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:33,960 I guess just like, if you are like kind of aware that something that your mate said is 438 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:43,280 just kind of shitty to trans people, you could like, I don't know, you could potentially 439 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,000 just like say, hey, actually, dude, and just like do it like that. 440 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,000 Or I don't know. 441 00:37:51,000 --> 00:38:00,800 I don't know, there must be ways of approaching it because I sometimes get into like weird 442 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:07,040 kind of things with like the people that like are sort of like around me at times. 443 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,800 Your friends are not always going to like align with all of your political views at 444 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,800 times. 445 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:22,160 I try to have friends that do, but sometimes I will like a person for, well, they're really, 446 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,480 really good on these things. 447 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:31,960 And then you mentioned something and then, you know, I usually will say something that 448 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:41,360 like, you know, try to educate them or, you know, instead of them, for instance, going 449 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:47,480 up to a trans person saying something, not understanding that that thing is necessarily 450 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,680 bad because they weren't told previously. 451 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:57,120 And then getting upset because a trans person gets offended because you said an offensive 452 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,600 thing. 453 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:05,520 And then you're left to hate a whole group of people because they're all offended and 454 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,800 you don't understand why because all of your friends are not offended over that. 455 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:21,480 Just say something, just be nice about it, of course, but like just say like, you know, 456 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,440 just so you know, this or that. 457 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,360 And just see what they say. 458 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,560 They might choose to brush it off. 459 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:34,560 I mean, then it's up to you to figure out if you want to still have that friendship. 460 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,240 And that's on you. 461 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:44,920 And then I guess with autism, I mean, the same thing applies. 462 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,520 It's just looking out for each other most of the time. 463 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,120 I don't think the majority of people will want to ever really offend people. 464 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:59,840 I think that's like for a certain type of person. 465 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,880 And I don't want to be near those people. 466 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,960 And it's up to you if you want to be near them. 467 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:05,960 That's you. 468 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:06,960 Yeah. 469 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:07,960 And right. 470 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,720 Last question to do with this topic. 471 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:14,760 What message would you like to share with our listeners, especially those who may be 472 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,680 struggling with their own identities or facing similar challenges as you've mentioned in 473 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,680 the podcast so far? 474 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,760 Oh, oh, God. 475 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,960 I've got like a few. 476 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:32,320 So I recently had bottom surgery, a type of surgery that is lower regions. 477 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,800 It doesn't turn you into a bottom. 478 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,920 I've had people joke about that. 479 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,920 Same with top surgery. 480 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,040 Doesn't turn you into a top. 481 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,000 If only. 482 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,040 And it was metodioplasty, which is a type of bottom surgery that uses the anatomy that 483 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,880 you have had previously. 484 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:58,680 So previously I had TMR anatomy and trigger warning for anatomy. 485 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:04,120 If any trans listeners are listening, vagina. 486 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,120 But now it's not. 487 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,120 It's metodioplasty. 488 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:16,280 So I kept my front hole and they kind of create the aesthetics of a dick and balls using these 489 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,320 sort of stuff. 490 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:25,160 I'm not going to get into the science of it because I have a whole website for that. 491 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:37,680 On the Flesh archives on Instagram, I'm sure Kai will link this to the Instagram post. 492 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,600 At the end I will put it on the bio of this episode. 493 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,680 So at the end, send me the links and everything and I'll put it into the description of this 494 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,680 episode. 495 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,640 I'm interested to look at it and find out more about the work you do. 496 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,400 And we will be talking about it in a moment as well. 497 00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:01,960 I post a lot of my art there and a lot of the art is very much geared towards the education 498 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,560 around trans healthcare in the UK. 499 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,640 I just want to kind of break down that wall because trans healthcare is just healthcare. 500 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:18,760 So it's good to understand what current life goes on happening within the medical field 501 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,760 at the moment. 502 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:28,920 I've posted lots of pictures, sculptures, plaster casts, everything, animations and 503 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,240 all on the website too that's linked to my Instagram. 504 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:39,600 I feel like now we will go into kink, leather, porn as an autistic man shortly. 505 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,600 But as you just spoke about your art, I thought I might as well just ask the questions about 506 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:44,600 your art next. 507 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,600 Yeah, sure. 508 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:51,280 Like on your Twitter bio, you say you're a flesh artist and you've kind of just announced 509 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,600 it a bit. 510 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,760 What does that mean for people who may not know? 511 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,520 It's still quite a new term to me as well. 512 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,040 So yeah, no, it's a new term for us all. 513 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:07,520 I just kind of coined the term because I'm very much interested with the idea of the 514 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:14,160 body, anatomy, surgery, and also just texture in general. 515 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:25,720 A lot of my art revolves around sort of picking apart these surgeries using ink and sort of 516 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:34,640 just drawing lines and building up hatched cross textures of like body parts. 517 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:41,800 And currently it is mostly trans surgeries, but I am looking to eventually get into just 518 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:50,480 surgery in general because the psychology behind being able to see your body as something 519 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:57,760 that isn't just a medical site, when you're going through something that is, it's difficult, 520 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,880 bottom surgery is difficult, but all surgeries difficult. 521 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:07,720 Being able to love your body and to look at a site and say, well, that is beautiful rather 522 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:16,920 than doctors have been putting things into my orifices and my leg is now like this and 523 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,320 I'll never see the, it will never be the same again. 524 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,600 No, things get better. 525 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,360 Things get better over time and it's not going to be what it was, but it's going to be something 526 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,400 new. 527 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,400 The flesh artist. 528 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,840 It's just what makes sense to me. 529 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,280 That and also I do porn. 530 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:46,760 So you recently did a statue of the term you like to use trans dick. 531 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:47,760 What is it like? 532 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,760 Can you say more about it? 533 00:44:50,760 --> 00:45:00,320 Oh, so first of all, you get dental goo, which is like dental alginate, it's the powdered 534 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:09,000 stuff and you slosh it on and it creates a sort of cast that you can then fill up with 535 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,000 plaster. 536 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:17,000 So it is plaster, but I'm looking to eventually team up with a few of my metal work friends 537 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:23,720 and make some sort of like aluminium and then we'll see about bronze later on. 538 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:28,500 But I have like it's three casts. 539 00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:35,480 One of my parts before surgery and sort of like the general anatomy and what things looked 540 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:36,480 like. 541 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,720 And I mostly wanted to do this because I'm not sure a lot of cis people within this audience 542 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:53,040 know, but of the things testosterone, HRT does to a trans man taking testosterone. 543 00:45:53,040 --> 00:46:02,440 So one of the things that happens is the clitoris growth expands because I mean, I could get 544 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:07,920 into the whole like development of the penis. 545 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:14,040 It is basically the clitoris grows when you're a fetus and that's how the dick is. 546 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:23,480 So you add testosterone onto a person that has like a estrogen higher, so like, you know, 547 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,160 person that's female, that clit grows. 548 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,680 And I'll call that a T dick because I really hate the word clit. 549 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,680 I hate it. 550 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:32,680 It's disgusting. 551 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,040 Like it's not for me, not for me. 552 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,080 So yeah, T dick. 553 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:44,000 But I wanted to show that because with metodoplasty, it really depends on like what you had before 554 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,760 for the length. 555 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:52,160 And I'm kind of like known to have a very noticeable size for a trans man that has the 556 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,160 surgery. 557 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,200 Usually it's not that big. 558 00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,760 And I had a lot of trans men like want to know if they were big enough for the surgery 559 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,160 to get similar results. 560 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:11,040 So being open about my body and my experiences, I did the second, second plaster, which is 561 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:19,440 the same, same goo and the same plaster work that you kind of do to show the extension 562 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:25,000 and where they put the balls and like the position and of everything. 563 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,360 And then I have a last cast for monoplasty, which is like a tummy tuck for your groin. 564 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:36,640 And it just brings all of the dick and the balls a little bit higher and more front facing 565 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:41,320 to kind of resemble a cis man's penis. 566 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,920 Yeah, that's the last cast. 567 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,920 That's amazing. 568 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,000 I think you touched on it just a little bit then. 569 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,640 But like, my next question is what inspired you to do it? 570 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,400 Like what do you hope the outcome will be making these statues? 571 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:09,080 I mean, the whole project, including the statues, is when I was getting bottom surgery, there 572 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,440 was no resources. 573 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,040 I was kind of a little bit terrified. 574 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,880 I knew I wanted bottom surgery. 575 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,200 I really did. 576 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:25,040 And I was put on a list for a new bottom surgery clinic in London that opened because the only 577 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,720 UK bottom surgery clinic closed over COVID. 578 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:33,800 Nobody had anywhere to go for bottom surgery. 579 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:40,440 And it was kind of a national crisis within the trans community. 580 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:51,080 And being the third patient, third underneath this bottom surgery clinic, I thought about 581 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,080 what if I created those resources? 582 00:48:55,080 --> 00:49:02,280 So I just kind of wanted to do that so other trans guys didn't necessarily have to feel 583 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,880 scared going into their surgery, not knowing if it's going to be okay or not. 584 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:17,480 Usually, for instance, if you were going for a knee surgery, you could type into Google 585 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,400 knee surgery outcomes and all of these kind of things. 586 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,920 You could get as graphic as you want. 587 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,200 You could get surgery videos quite easily for that. 588 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:34,720 Yet you couldn't do that with this surgery. 589 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,120 Not as easily. 590 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,760 It was pretty hard to dig through that. 591 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,960 But being able to do that. 592 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:47,600 And now with Plasticasts, I'm going to be putting them into a 3D software called Blender 593 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:53,760 for any of the 3D artists and 3D printer nerds out there. 594 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,240 And I'm making an animation step by step of the whole surgery. 595 00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:04,200 So I hope, yeah, it's a lot of maths and I hate maths, but I'm going to do it because 596 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,320 it needs to be done. 597 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:14,000 And it's going to be there for teaching trans people about the surgery, but also cis people. 598 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,000 And who knows? 599 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:24,640 I hope to potentially send the actual Plasticasts to a hospital and get them to do their own 600 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,400 animation because I'm sure there's people that would be better at doing this than me. 601 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,640 I'm just an artist that I love to learn new things, so I'm going to give it a go. 602 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:40,320 And then they can work on an animation because it would be really beneficial for all of the 603 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:46,960 people that are more squeamish than me that can't watch real surgery to understand what 604 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,760 will happen within this one. 605 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,240 Yeah, that's amazing. 606 00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:54,160 And I've actually got a question which I just thought from the top of my head. 607 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,560 As one of the artists, when you have your surgery done, do you at all document how you 608 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,360 feel drawing it? 609 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:07,440 Yeah, on my website, I have blog posts that I have written. 610 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,880 I need to get back into writing. 611 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,520 I haven't written in a while, but I have blog posts there. 612 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:20,560 And they're all written from the style of William S. Burroughs. 613 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,560 He was a beat literature poet. 614 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:31,160 He wrote a lot of Gonzo-style journalism, but his stuff wasn't necessarily to do with 615 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,600 transness. 616 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:40,000 He was a queer man and going through a lot of pretty hard queer experiences, living in 617 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,880 the 50s, I think it was the 50s. 618 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:52,640 And he wrote it from the perspective of a sci-fi novel, very like Aliens and things 619 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:58,840 like that, but it's all very, very autobiographical, but also incredibly nonlinear. 620 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:04,880 So I have all of that because I wanted to do something that was raw and emotive. 621 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:11,880 And then kind of it showed all of the emotions because I'm going to tell you, it's not all 622 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:12,880 positive. 623 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,960 I'm incredibly happy with my surgery, but I mean, with all surgery, there are things 624 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:23,360 like post-op depression, which is the side effect of the anesthetic and the fact that 625 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,600 you can't do as much and you have to rely on people to do things for you. 626 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:33,960 So it's difficult, but yeah, it makes for an interesting read. 627 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:42,920 I also have those illustrations that I've mentioned, which are hard to look at, but 628 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:48,040 also kind of beautiful due to havaganda. 629 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:57,480 That and I also have some animations and some photography of the site, on the site. 630 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:04,760 I also have another photography project I did a while back about my relationships to 631 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:10,520 masculinity before I started my surgical journey. 632 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:11,520 So yeah. 633 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:12,520 Yeah, that's amazing. 634 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,880 So you mentioned it earlier, but where can people see the different art you've done and 635 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,200 what's your way of the blog? 636 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:28,080 So my Instagram, the Flesh Archives, there are dashes in there, but they will be attached 637 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:39,320 to the profile for this and attached to the profile is MarsMilo.com and that is a collection 638 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:46,680 of different art projects that I did around, just like in and about my bottom surgery journey. 639 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:53,760 I still need to add a few more things like this animation that's going to hopefully be 640 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,680 coming out with Blender, but yeah, that's where you can find it. 641 00:53:58,680 --> 00:53:59,680 That's amazing. 642 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:00,680 Right. 643 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:08,400 For the final topic of this episode, it's all about kink, leather, porn as an autistic 644 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:09,400 man. 645 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:15,000 So to kick off this section of our little interview, how would you feel your autism 646 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,400 influences your perception slash interest in kink leather? 647 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,640 Oh, okay. 648 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,640 Okay. 649 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:28,560 So I need to mention sadomasochism for a bit. 650 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:34,280 So I'm a sadist, like pretty, pretty, like I like to cause pain. 651 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:35,600 It makes me laugh. 652 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:36,600 It's funny. 653 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:43,080 Of course, within consent, but like when I was a child, I would have these like experiences 654 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:51,640 that I would say very much linked to my autism, where I would have this checklist of, okay, 655 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:52,640 sensations. 656 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:57,760 Like I'd look at something and think, how does this hurt? 657 00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,000 Would it hurt? 658 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,000 So I'd do it. 659 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,200 It's very, very jackass of me. 660 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:08,040 I'd like put my fingers in car doors and then cry and like my parents would be like, why 661 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,680 did you do that? 662 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,680 Because I wanted to see if it would hurt. 663 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,160 And a lot of these things. 664 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:23,240 And I would say that kind of carries into my way of perception of my like kind of way 665 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:31,760 of doing kink and sadism is I like to do things that I've experienced myself because then 666 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:39,600 I know for sure how they are being felt by myself. 667 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:49,400 The person that is the masochist and is receiving that pain, for instance, flogging, like I 668 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:56,720 will sometimes I will, but within flogging scenes, mostly as a challenge because I want 669 00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:02,600 to see how long I can go, but also because I want to know what feels good, what feels 670 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:03,920 bad. 671 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,480 Why would I want to use that certain thing? 672 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:15,400 And then I will then do it on somebody and I would then be able to learn the skill wholeheartedly 673 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,560 like within my head because I need to do it from bottom to top way of thinking. 674 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:27,720 And that's usually a thought style that autistic people have bottom to top. 675 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:31,200 And I guess I like bondage quite a lot. 676 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,520 I'm not even really like I'm a switch. 677 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,160 I'm mostly dumb, but I am a switch. 678 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:44,160 But even then, like I love the idea of just being like tightly tied up because I'd like 679 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:49,680 put myself underneath, like I'd be in a ball pit as a child and just like lying there being 680 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:55,800 crushed and just like, oh, what if what if somebody like accidentally jumped on me and 681 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:56,800 I got hurt? 682 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,680 Oh, oh, the pressure of it. 683 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:08,120 Or tight cabinets, just being like hiding in tight cabinets as a kid and that wanting sensory 684 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,080 deprivation because the world was too noisy. 685 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:16,880 Like I find like a great peace of mind being in such a deprivation. 686 00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:24,960 So I guess like all of this interlinks and I've talked to many autistic people that within 687 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,560 the kink scene because it seems like there's a lot of us in this scene. 688 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,440 It's almost it's correlated. 689 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:41,520 And so many people will have their own their own ideas of their own experiences. 690 00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:49,440 And it's always so lovely for me to find out they found this lovely community and able 691 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:58,520 to experience the things that they really like within sensory stuff and just being autistic 692 00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,200 through through this. 693 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:02,200 Yes. 694 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:03,200 That's great. 695 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,200 Oh, wow. 696 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,200 Yeah. 697 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:11,120 So do you feel that being a trans man intersects with your experiences? 698 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,120 An interesting thing? 699 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,120 Any specific way? 700 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,160 Oh, oh, porn. 701 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,160 Yeah. 702 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:27,160 And like being able just to be open and proud of my body enough to post online is unbelievably 703 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,560 political, I guess, in today's age. 704 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:38,000 And also, it's something that needs to be done because there are trans people who were 705 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,920 like me when I was younger. 706 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:47,480 And I didn't know what a trans person was, because I didn't know and I couldn't see it. 707 00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:52,920 And there can be people that are, you know, they're like sumbling over porn, and they're 708 00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:58,240 coming into it and they're like, Oh, wow, there's, there's, there's a guy here and he's 709 00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:07,640 got bottom surgery and he is trans and open and being, you know, being able to be sexual 710 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,680 and happy and it's needed. 711 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:19,300 So I see a lot of my like, yeah, being trans and doing porn is currently just like the 712 00:59:19,300 --> 00:59:21,040 way I like to give back. 713 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,440 Yeah, it's like in anything if there's representation. 714 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:31,400 Yeah, I love the fact that it's not just me, there are so many other people and it's, I 715 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:36,280 mean, goes the same, the same with any community. 716 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:42,840 And you know, I do more than just do porn, of course, like within porn circles, like 717 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,600 I talk quite openly about my experiences. 718 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:52,560 And yeah, I mean, I just I'm just glad that I'm able to do that. 719 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:58,640 Yeah, as I say, like, I feel like no matter who you are, as long as you're the legal age, 720 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:04,560 you should be able to freely sexually expressive if you want to be or anything, as long as 721 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:05,560 you're not hurting anyone. 722 01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:06,560 Yeah, exactly. 723 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:12,520 You're doing an amazing job because you as a trans man, you're so open and all these 724 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:19,320 different ways and hopefully with you being open, other trans people can feel more welcome, 725 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,920 more welcome to that body and more exploring and stuff like that. 726 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:25,960 So you do an amazing job. 727 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,360 Yeah, thank you. 728 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,960 So it's honestly been amazing interviewing today, Mars. 729 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:38,360 And once again, for anyone interested in Mars art, it will be in the description of wherever 730 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,600 you're listening to this podcast. 731 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,000 It's been a pleasure to interview you. 732 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,520 Have a good rest of the evening. 733 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:46,520 Thank you. 734 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:47,520 And you too. 735 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:48,520 Thanks. 736 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:49,520 Bye.