1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 If you liked this video, please share and subscribe to my channel! 2 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:37,600 Hi, it's great to be in your studio finally. 3 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,560 I've seen so many pictures of it from all these different angles that it's fantastic 4 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,080 to be here in person. 5 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,400 So glad to have you finally here to see the work in the flesh. 6 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,680 Yes, me too. 7 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaking of the work in the flesh, I wanted to maybe first start by asking you about all 8 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,600 the different elements that I see around, all these fragments of things. 9 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,840 And when I mean things, they really are completely random things. 10 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,600 I'm looking at cut out yoga mats on the floor. 11 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,000 I'm looking at leaves. 12 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,040 I'm looking at little pieces of sequins everywhere. 13 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,360 I'm looking at threads. 14 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,520 Yeah, there is a lot going on in the studio. 15 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,680 And as well as sketches on the wall. 16 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:28,320 It's like fragments is a very key part of your practice and of what the work means. 17 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:34,600 So can you walk us through the meaning of fragments and how fragments are integrated 18 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:35,600 in your work? 19 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,600 Yeah, absolutely. 20 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,360 So I often collect found objects that I'm attracted to instantly. 21 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,160 And I feel this desire to bring them back to the studio, having no idea exactly what's 22 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,800 going to become of them. 23 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,520 I'm initially attracted to things that I find beautiful. 24 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,600 And because I often think about notions, notions of beauty, I kind of unpack the objects I 25 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,680 bring back to the studio, but by taking them completely apart. 26 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:08,200 So this is quite a laborious and meditative process whereby I'll sit on my yoga mat and 27 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,760 take an object completely to pieces. 28 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,680 I completely fragmented. 29 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,000 And this means that each fragment will have in a way its own agency and can become part 30 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,680 of a completely new landscape. 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:25,200 So what you can see around the studio is different objects I've collected over the years that 32 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,960 I've taken up, that I've taken to pieces and they kind of unpredictably become part of 33 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,200 the surface. 34 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:38,900 And actually, I never really know what the end result will be of taking the object apart. 35 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:44,560 But all I know is that these fragments will have agency to start talking about a variety 36 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,040 of different subjects, whether that be pink dolphins or an archaeological fragment found 37 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:51,200 in a lefcina. 38 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,480 I try to think about different notions through the surface and through these fragments. 39 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,800 So that's why they're kind of spread around my studio because they always have the potential 40 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,920 to become part of the next work. 41 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:03,800 So walk me through this idea. 42 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,380 You're, let's say, out and about in Athens running an errand. 43 00:03:07,380 --> 00:03:08,880 How do you actually look? 44 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,480 Well, I'm one of those people that is generally just kind of looking around on the floor. 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,640 I mean, I'm kind of attracted in general to waste and to detritus. 46 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:23,680 And I've always picked up things as a child and brought crap back to the house. 47 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,040 So this isn't something new. 48 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,400 It's something that I've always kind of done is bringing things back that I find really 49 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,040 beautiful and I don't know why. 50 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,080 And I end up thinking about that as it sits in my studio for long periods of time. 51 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,520 But like a few days ago, I found a pink birdcage in the trash near my house. 52 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,080 And it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, really. 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,040 It's like the shadows of the lines through the birdcage. 54 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Where is it? 55 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,040 It's in my house still. 56 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,760 I need to bring it. 57 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,560 But kind of anything has the capacity, I think, for beauty. 58 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,840 And I love the idea of repurposing things that were on their way to become absolute 59 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:58,840 decay. 60 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,580 So, yes, if I'm going on a walk, like you say, running an errand, if something catches 61 00:04:03,580 --> 00:04:07,940 my eye, I will without a doubt bring it back to the studio no matter what the size of this 62 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:11,100 thing is, whether it could be tiny and it could be large. 63 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:19,280 So is it an idea of basically needing to share or to show the beauty that you see in that 64 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:24,680 work to more people because it's a discarded object that is supposedly valueless and therefore 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:25,680 without beauty? 66 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:26,680 Exactly. 67 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,280 In a way, I feel like I'm trying to slow down the process because I've been thinking for 68 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,760 years about the fast pace of object to trash. 69 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,800 And because obviously as consumers, things become trash before they've even reached that 70 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,800 point in their life as objects. 71 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,920 So in a way, I'm trying to honor things around us that have too quickly become trash, which 72 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,120 I see some kind of beauty within them. 73 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,200 And then I unpack their beauty and try to show in a way others their beauty through 74 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,600 the surface. 75 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,400 So this could happen directly or more indirectly. 76 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,260 Like my painting could be an allusion to an object or to the life of an object. 77 00:05:01,260 --> 00:05:02,560 But I'm trying to kind of capture. 78 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,880 So I might take the object apart and then it physically becomes part of the work. 79 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,680 Or I might be using it to paint over and over again until I've exhausted it. 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:17,240 So Lydia, another thing that struck me when I first saw your work, but now that I'm here 81 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:23,760 seeing it in the flesh, is the incredible amount of layering that you have worked with. 82 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,080 You've spent time in TINOS at the sculpture school. 83 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,080 There's many different dimensions and the fragments that you salvage are multi-dimensional. 84 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,080 But what I find really interesting in each and every one of the works that I'm seeing 85 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:45,400 here is that they are multi-layered while being displayed on a two-dimensional canvas. 86 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,600 But even the canvas itself, which is unstretched, has another life. 87 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,360 There's a kind of an infinity, in a sense, where things can continue to be layered and 88 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,000 layered and layered. 89 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Can you dissect this a little bit more? 90 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:00,520 Yeah, sure. 91 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,040 I mean, there are layers in my work, you're absolutely right. 92 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,280 And in a way, for me to be able to reference all these kinds of different objects which 93 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,240 have their own histories, there have to be layers involved. 94 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:17,080 For me to be able to think about the relationship between scenes that I've witnessed or objects 95 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,560 that I've picked up, and in a way because my work has a lot to do with memory as well 96 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,280 and memory of places, there has to be layers for me to be able to kind of wedge them all 97 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:27,280 together. 98 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:32,600 So obviously in my work, there's always thread, thread plays a crucial role in my work. 99 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,240 Because generally I'm very attracted to line and the potential of line, and that's where 100 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,680 the grid comes in as well. 101 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:44,080 So in a way, one of those layers, one of the crucial layers is the grid, art historically 102 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:50,360 as well, but also in terms of me being able to control my own process, I need to implement 103 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,320 some kind of structure in my work, and that's one of the layers. 104 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,640 And is the structure connected to a story? 105 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,800 The structure of the grid is the literal way in which I'm able to allow the painting to 106 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:03,800 grow. 107 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:09,320 So that's kind of a technique I use to be able to connect disparate things. 108 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:15,160 In terms of the acrylics, for instance, that I use on the surface, this is the more uncontrolled 109 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,200 layer where the paint spreads in its own way. 110 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,880 I can't really control it because it's not primed, so the paint seeps through the surface 111 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,840 in whichever way it will. 112 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,440 But then when I start using graphite, or I start using sequins from a throwaway skirt 113 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,800 or hedgehog spines, all these things are very deliberate gestures on the surface which I 114 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:42,640 can control, but those are inextricably linked with the idea of textile, and fragments becoming 115 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,120 a textile as well. 116 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,280 So I like to think I'm in the realm of working between painting and textile. 117 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:54,880 But tell me, you have in some cases started a work where there wasn't enough space for 118 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:00,480 you to actually create what you wanted to, so you've had to add space, which is really 119 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:06,040 interesting where you've had to stitch and expand the space in an ad hoc traditional 120 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:07,040 way. 121 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,280 I mean, it's almost like a collage of canvas. 122 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,120 But then the stitching itself becomes part of the work. 123 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,120 Yeah, absolutely. 124 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,680 Well, I'm interested in a way in everything showing, and that's why, for instance, with 125 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:24,160 the grid, I never go and erase evidence of having used a grid to unravel the surface. 126 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,560 You know, if I work on some arbitrary size of canvas, I like the idea that the gestures 127 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,560 that I've made will kind of then interfere with the rest of it, and if I need to add 128 00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:40,480 more surface to it, then I will, because the marks need to expand, they need to go on further. 129 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,480 But because my work is quite unplanned, there's a lot of room, in a way, for unpredictable 130 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,000 gestures, and that's part of the process that I really enjoy, that a painting could start 131 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,880 off quite small, but then become much larger through fragments coming together. 132 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,040 So in a way, the notion of the fragment is something which is involved in the whole process, 133 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,800 not just the physical act of bringing fragments back to the studio. 134 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,920 But tell me something, when you talk about fragments, it takes me to, somehow, archaeology, 135 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:17,240 artifacts, broken pieces of an ancient sculpture, and we're sitting here in Athens, and both 136 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:24,680 antiquity and also Byzantine culture has played a role in your work, in forming your aesthetics 137 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:27,040 and the research that you've done. 138 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,640 Can you elaborate a little bit more on this relationship and the connections? 139 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,720 Yeah, absolutely, and what you're saying is really important, because actually, I remember 140 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:42,360 going to museums growing up as a kid in Athens and being very attracted to fragments of sculptures, 141 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:50,480 where there was pieces of a frieze, for instance, that were displayed alongside casts of what 142 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,960 would be the whole. 143 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,840 So there was always this idea of how was the whole recreated for the purpose of showing 144 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,800 an audience what the frieze looked like in ancient Greece, for example. 145 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:08,720 And that kind of possibility and trying to envision what things looked like back in ancient 146 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,160 Greece is something that sparked my interest in finding fragments of everyday life and 147 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,800 what kind of narrative they belonged to. 148 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,280 And I think, in general, there's something so captivating by these archaeological fragments, 149 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,800 where we don't know exactly what the rest of the statue or the monument looked like. 150 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,920 So it's up to us to use our imagination and facts that we have on that period to piece 151 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,760 together what the whole would be. 152 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:38,680 So I'm constantly, in a way, trying to imagine a new whole for these fragments that I collect. 153 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,320 But it's a story that you create. 154 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,960 It's a story that I create. 155 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,200 Sometimes it doesn't feel that way, because when I bring back someone to the studio, it 156 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,680 feels like I'm just telling the story of that object. 157 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:49,240 I'm not making it up. 158 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:55,760 Maybe that sounds crazy, but I feel like a duty to a thing, a duty to an object. 159 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:01,360 And it does become part of a new narrative, in a way, but using its kind of pure existence, 160 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,800 if I may say. 161 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,880 So in terms of the narrative of these found objects and what can be created out of them, 162 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,320 we've had a conversation where you've talked about being influenced by the whole Art in 163 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,480 Povera movement and the kind of the philosophy behind what they were trying to communicate. 164 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,320 Can you say a little bit more about how that feeds into your work or how that allows you 165 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,360 to create work? 166 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:25,680 Yeah, certainly. 167 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:32,080 So I kind of started looking into the Art of Povera movement when I was at Goldsmith. 168 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,720 And obviously I had known about the work of Yannis Kounelis, for instance, but I was particularly 169 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:42,200 attracted to the way in which he had used mundane materials and given them a sort of 170 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,120 extravagance in the space that they were exhibited. 171 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:51,520 So I think that was kind of a moment whereby seeing his work and seeing how the everyday 172 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:58,160 could be incorporated into a work using exactly the colour of the material and not changing 173 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:03,520 it in any way, I think that made me start being able to use found objects and appreciate 174 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,160 them as they are and not intervening with them too much. 175 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,600 So actually the only way in which I intervene with the actual object would be the fragmentation 176 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,400 of it and taking it apart, but not actually changing the colour of it, for instance. 177 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:22,960 So I'd say that the Art of Povera movement influenced my confidence in using found objects 178 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,320 that I'm attracted to. 179 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:29,720 And in referencing the grid with a capital G, many different artists come to mind, but 180 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,920 in particular I would say Agnes Martin because it's also somebody I think that you are interested 181 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,920 in her practice. 182 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,720 Well, you know, one of the main things I was attracted to with Agnes Martin's work was 183 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:48,040 the titles of her work and for instance a painting of hers called Little Sister, one 184 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,680 of her earlier works. 185 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:54,840 I just really liked the kind of intimacy of her titles and how they linked with the grid. 186 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:01,320 In a way she kind of saw the whole world through the grid and I see the potential of line like 187 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:02,320 that as well. 188 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:08,240 So in a way her sensibility of the grid is something I felt very attracted to and mesmerised 189 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,240 by. 190 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,360 Can you define to me what the grid is for you? 191 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,280 For me the grid is the answer to how I work. 192 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:20,640 So thinking about many disparate things at the same time, whether that be a throwaway 193 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,320 object and how that links with a Byzantine motif for instance, the grid will allow these 194 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:26,940 things to have a dialogue. 195 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:31,520 So in a way the grid for me is allowing for a dialogue to take place between seemingly 196 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:32,520 disparate things. 197 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,520 So is it like a conduit? 198 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,880 Yeah, it is. 199 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,240 It's like a gateway. 200 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,280 Maybe a gateway is a good way of describing it. 201 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,400 Because even though my work seems completely abstract, there is a structure underlying 202 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:52,080 the abstraction and there's a structure underlying the gestures that take place on the surface. 203 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:58,000 So the grid in a way is a fundamental structure to think about the disparate notions that 204 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,480 I'm looking at and it's a way for things to coexist. 205 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,840 But interestingly you can use many different things to create the grid. 206 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,960 It's not about making it just out of graphite or out of a pencil. 207 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Is that correct? 208 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:11,960 It is correct. 209 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,560 Initially though, because my works start off with these kind of arbitrary gestures and 210 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:21,100 then the grid comes along afterwards, the grid is kind of dependent on what these gestures 211 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:25,320 are like as well, aesthetically, materialistically. 212 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,840 So as I had mentioned before as well, the grid kind of might come a quarter of the way 213 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,640 in or it might come a bit later in the work. 214 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:38,400 But the grid generally is what allows the fragments from the found object to be placed. 215 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,560 So for instance the sequence moves along the grid and that's why they have a symmetry as 216 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,560 well. 217 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,420 There's a mathematical kind of symmetry in the way that the sequence spreads. 218 00:14:48,420 --> 00:14:50,160 Those parts are not random. 219 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,080 So the grid allows for this balance between control and abstraction. 220 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:00,680 One thing that really speaks and is so wonderfully refreshing in your work is your choice of 221 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,200 colors, particularly pink. 222 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,120 And I love the way that you have, I think, spent a lot of time looking into pink and 223 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,560 the meaning of the color pink because it's not just about Barbie and the current fashion 224 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,120 of pink, let's say. 225 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,120 Yeah. 226 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,920 But also in terms of the whole connection with spirituality, with the Byzantine liturgy 227 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,640 as well as in connection with blood and dolphins. 228 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,040 Can you just talk to us a little bit about pink? 229 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,040 Yeah, absolutely. 230 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:36,040 Well, I initially became interested in pink when my grandfather was dying in the hospital. 231 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,480 My first actual connection with pink was through death. 232 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,920 And my grandfather died of sepsis and watching the way the color of his skin gradually changed, 233 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,880 I suddenly became very attracted to an interest in the role of pink in decay. 234 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,360 So in a way, thinking about pink started from something very dark. 235 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,760 But I actually started to find a lot of comfort when my grandfather passed away in pink. 236 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,600 For me, pink has this solace about it. 237 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,560 It's a very comforting color. 238 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,280 It's an unthreatening color. 239 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,440 And so there's a personal significance in pink, and that's how it all began. 240 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,840 But then I kind of started looking at pink in Byzantine iconography and reading about 241 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:15,840 that while I was in Tinos. 242 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:22,000 And there wasn't much written about the significance of the pink found in Saints' Roads, for instance. 243 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,880 There was a lot written about the blue and the red, but not much written about the pink. 244 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,640 And pink does play a massive role in Byzantine iconography, but there's not much written 245 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,760 about the symbolism of that. 246 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:37,160 So in a way, I do use pink to think about a variety of disparate notions. 247 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,560 But something I had read recently about pink dolphins, as you mentioned, was the fact that 248 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,080 they're not in themselves pink. 249 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,800 It's the blood showing through their gray skin, which gives them the appearance of being 250 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:48,760 pink. 251 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,200 So then I started thinking about pink again as a force of life. 252 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,640 And that linked to what I had said initially about starting to think about pink and decay, 253 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,440 because they seem like they'd be quite disparate, because pink is also a color that seems sometimes 254 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,200 frivolous or artificial. 255 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:10,240 But yeah, through these dolphins, and this is why I began to use them as a repeated motif 256 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:15,960 in my work, is that pink can allude to notions of wisdom, for instance. 257 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,200 The older we get, the wiser we get, and in a way, these animals become, their pink becomes 258 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,840 more intensified as they get older, showing their wisdom. 259 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,000 So I'm kind of interested in pink having the capacity to talk about a variety of different 260 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,720 notions that we wouldn't initially associate. 261 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,360 And so usually, it's a color that I use in the first kind of abstract gesture that I 262 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:40,360 make on the surface. 263 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:44,120 And that is something that I find quite comforting. 264 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:49,080 But then other colors start to emerge through, it could be through a body of water, the body 265 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,040 of water that the dolphin is in. 266 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,280 It could emerge through the color of the found object. 267 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:59,040 So all the layers of colors reference the different narratives of the objects. 268 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,080 It references different phases of life. 269 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,480 But you keep coming back to this color. 270 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,880 I do keep coming back to this color, but there are times where through graphite, for instance, 271 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,080 if I'm using pink and graphite, the pink becomes more purple. 272 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,320 So I'm interested in the kind of organic decay of the color on the surface. 273 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,200 And if the pink is going to become purple, or if it's going to become more red, I allow 274 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,280 for that to happen. 275 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,600 I don't force pink into my work. 276 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,320 But yeah, like I said, initially, when I'm painting the subject, whether that be a pair 277 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:35,240 of throwaway shoes, or a pair of pink dolphins that I think are in love, the pink has the 278 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,040 same value, no matter what it's depicting. 279 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,400 All the objects are treated in the same way. 280 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,160 And I'm interested in there not being a hierarchy between the fragments in the painting. 281 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,600 They're all just part of a language of stuff. 282 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,960 Tell me, what would you like your work to be saying to people? 283 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,920 How would you like people to walk away after seeing your work? 284 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:03,800 I think what's important for me is the viewer starting to notice things, notice things around 285 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,720 them in everyday life. 286 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:11,160 Start thinking about things that are on their way out, things that are, you know, being 287 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,640 ready to throw away, whether that be a piece of furniture or something that the audience 288 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,680 are very quickly to turn into rubbish, to kind of think about the process of objects, 289 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:26,640 the life of objects, trying to give things more of an opportunity to still exist before 290 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,140 discarding it. 291 00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:34,980 So for me, it would be more of a change in attitude towards things around us and appreciation 292 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:35,980 of objects. 293 00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:43,720 So I think definitely to slow down in a way, and that would be a success if I could make 294 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,240 work where the viewer would just in their everyday life slow down a little. 295 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,560 And what would be your dream project to create that is something you aspire to do that you 296 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,160 haven't been able to do yet because of scale, because of circumstances, etc.? 297 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,160 Yeah. 298 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,800 I'm aiming for the idea of whatever I make on a small scale now, for that to be able 299 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,560 to transcend surfaces. 300 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,720 So what you can see now on the floor with the yoga mats, for instance, this was kind 301 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:20,160 of an organic spill of my works onto the surface I've been sitting on to unpick all the found 302 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,160 objects. 303 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:27,880 So for me, the goal is kind of to let any object have the capacity to become something 304 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,160 else. 305 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:35,520 So the work that I'm proceeding to make for the next few months will be accumulating yoga 306 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:42,440 mats, discarded yoga mats from women all over Athens to make a giant collage of these embroidered 307 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:48,440 motifs cut out in each yoga mat, but they're all going to become part of one whole. 308 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,760 So in a way, I'm starting to think about how the viewer will experience my work because 309 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,160 I'm interested in everything making sense as you're looking. 310 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,180 So instead of just stretching the canvases or framing them, there's going to be a more 311 00:21:00,180 --> 00:21:04,680 elaborate way of stepping onto all these yoga mats and thinking about the histories of these 312 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,480 individual objects and how they've become part of one whole and what it means to look 313 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:15,920 at a piece of work and be stepping on something which has so much history in a way. 314 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,060 So I'm kind of interested in how my work can start becoming an experience rather than just 315 00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:22,060 an object to look at. 316 00:21:22,060 --> 00:21:26,480 As you're talking here, you currently have your canvases displayed. 317 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:33,520 There's almost a kind of a transparency where one can see through one canvas into another. 318 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,880 And there's a very fluid way of interacting with your work. 319 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:38,880 Absolutely. 320 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,480 And thinking about exhibiting my work, there needs to be a reflection of the studio as 321 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,720 well because the way in which some works are hung, some works are starting to emerge on 322 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,720 the floor, I think there needs to be an honest reflection of that when thinking about how 323 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,160 to exhibit them. 324 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,600 And it's more about creating like a world for the viewer of these things rather than 325 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,520 just showing glimpses through surfaces. 326 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:01,520 Right. 327 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,800 And that world you've referred, you've talked about Elefcina, about Dinos. 328 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,880 How do you think nature fits into your work or how your work could be in nature? 329 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,360 Well, just by the way in which the process is so organic and unpredictable, that's an 330 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,800 instant reference to nature in a way. 331 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,760 And the geometry in a lot of my work can link to fractals, for instance, and the repetition 332 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:25,760 of fractals. 333 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:31,440 So the way in which my work can be kind of rolled up and taken to a place is also a kind 334 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:36,760 of reflection of the nature of my work because I can roll it up and take it to a quarry, 335 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:42,680 for instance, or take it to a forest and get some inspiration as to how the colors will 336 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,240 unfold on the surface. 337 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,240 So there's a very direct link with nature as I'm making the work as well. 338 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,640 And when I'm stuck, this is often something I do is take the... 339 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,640 So like it's a conversation. 340 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,120 You take it into the space. 341 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:55,120 Yeah. 342 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,480 I'll take it to a space that I'll find quite mesmerizing, like a green quarry in Dinos, 343 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,480 for instance. 344 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,080 That has helped the last body of work evolve massively just in the way in which like the 345 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,120 artificial lake reflects the lines in the marble. 346 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:14,000 That's something that stuck with me for a long time and became a recurring element in 347 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,920 the surface of my work. 348 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,800 But also, for instance, a lot of the horizontal lines have to do with the rapid growth of 349 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:29,160 bamboo, for instance, and the way in which these bamboo shoots evolve as they're growing. 350 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:35,000 So there's a constant transformative element, transformative potential in my work, and that 351 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,120 does come directly from nature. 352 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,440 But why bamboo? 353 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:47,760 My dad actually, who lives in China, has been bringing bamboo to grow in his garden, and 354 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,600 that is one of his avid passions, and it's something that we often talk about. 355 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:58,240 So bamboo is actually something that I enjoy discussing with my father, and it's sometimes 356 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:05,320 the colors of bamboo and the way in which they grow kind of indirectly impacts the surface. 357 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,640 They grow easily in Greece? 358 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,960 No, there aren't that many types of bamboo in contrast to how many there are in China. 359 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,200 There are many more different types, and one that he brought recently was like the belly 360 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,880 Buddha bamboo, which starts having curves as it grows. 361 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,080 So I was kind of interested in thinking about the notion of growth and how the line becomes 362 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,320 a curve, and this happens in my work all the time, that this transformative potential between 363 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:35,320 the vertical or horizontal line becoming a wave or referencing a found object. 364 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,280 All this kind of goes back to drawing as well, which is like the underlying foundation of 365 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,280 my work. 366 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,240 Lydia, one of the things that I think they're coming back to is you're working on unstretched 367 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:52,240 canvas, that suppleness that seems to be so key to you interacting with the work in a 368 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:59,120 way that when you describe a stretched canvas that it somehow hinders you, hinders a certain 369 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:05,640 process, and there's a physicality there that is somehow uncomfortable. 370 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,400 Yeah, certainly. 371 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,280 I find working on stretched canvas hindering and actually there's something too official 372 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,360 about it which wouldn't let the work unfold in its own way. 373 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:23,240 So working on unprimed and unstretched canvas allows for the idea that the painting could 374 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,320 go on infinitely, which I think is a lot more powerful than having edges which the viewer 375 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,720 is confined by when viewing the work. 376 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,560 So as I had mentioned also previously to Tamara, the notion that the lines from one painting 377 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,520 could organically ascend to the next painting is extremely important because I need there 378 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:49,340 to be a flow of elements from one work to the next because that maintains a kind of 379 00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:52,480 honesty in the work. 380 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,960 But you don't think that can happen with stretched canvas? 381 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,200 I think it can happen for other artists on stretched canvas but for me there's something 382 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,840 about the fluidity of textile which allows for more literal transitioning from one work 383 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,120 to another. 384 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:14,720 The way that the threads fall from the unstretched canvas does something in my mind that allows 385 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,800 me to go onto the next piece of fabric and that means my relationship to the work is 386 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,800 somehow kind of softer. 387 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,920 There's a fragility about it which makes sense with all the things I collect as well. 388 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,080 So working on primed canvas makes sense for the notions that I'm talking about. 389 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,080 But it seems to be almost like a physical, there's a physical element to it that is just 390 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,080 much more comfortable for you. 391 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,280 Certainly and I feel that that would be the same for the viewer as well because I think 392 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:48,200 people are often feel a threat or like an intimidation from paintings that are officialised 393 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,360 in this way of stretching them. 394 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:56,680 Actually I think they're more easy to access for the viewer as unstretched fragments, as 395 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:03,000 moments in a way because there's a fluidity in the unstretched that I think passes something 396 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,400 different onto the viewer. 397 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:13,160 One last question is I love the title of your work, The Banana Falls Very Far From the Tree. 398 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,960 Right, again, so that's really important that you mention that because I started thinking 399 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:26,080 about how far the consumer is from the origin of the consumer object. 400 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,080 So in a way that the title was kind of like a play on words from the apple doesn't fall 401 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,080 far from the tree. 402 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,960 But in a way I wanted that title to reflect how far we are from many of the things that 403 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,080 we consume in our everyday lives. 404 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,900 But then also what is interesting is that this is the work that we're also exploring 405 00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:45,900 as a variation and in terms of blog printing. 406 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:50,360 What are your thoughts and feelings about that and why did you choose that work particularly? 407 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:54,400 Well it was the first painting that truly behaved as a textile. 408 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,320 So in the way that I showed you that the painting started off on a small piece of canvas but 409 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:05,080 needed to then grow and because it was on this isolated fragment I needed to add more 410 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,200 canvas to the side and sew them in order for it to be one stable whole. 411 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,840 For me it made sense that an object that I treated as a textile for that to then carry 412 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,520 on as textile in the way that we worked on it in the workshop. 413 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:26,200 So I think it made sense the painting that was treated most as a fabric for its evolution 414 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,280 to become something else. 415 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,240 And the fact that someone else is creating that work with your collaboration, how does 416 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,240 that make you feel? 417 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,040 Well you know it felt like an honour because the thought process behind making the work 418 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,800 was quite complicated and unusual that I was quite interested to see how someone else would 419 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,440 interpret the marks or even what the hell the painting could be about you know. 420 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,640 So there was a lot of layers that I was unsure about how they were going to be grasped but 421 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,440 I felt so touched in a way by how people that I've never met before would interpret the 422 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,400 painting and try to mimic elements of the painting. 423 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Yeah and I think they've done a very sincere, it's been a very painstaking job. 424 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,400 Very much looking forward to seeing that. 425 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,600 Yeah me too, me too. 426 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,000 Thank you very much Lydia. 427 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:37,640 Thank you Tamara.