WEBVTT 00:00:24.750 --> 00:00:29.289 on Hustle Podcast. Today we have a special guest 00:00:29.289 --> 00:00:35.890 with us. This is episode number 117. And I heard 00:00:35.890 --> 00:00:39.429 our guest speak at the LCR Summit in October, 00:00:40.429 --> 00:00:43.490 the Monday and Tuesday right before Equip Expo. 00:00:44.350 --> 00:00:47.850 And I was determined I had to get Mark on the 00:00:47.850 --> 00:00:52.469 show. And today, we have Mark Bradley with us. 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.899 Thank you for joining the lawn hustle. Oh, thanks 00:00:56.899 --> 00:01:02.179 for having me. Well, today we want to talk about 00:01:02.179 --> 00:01:07.120 most lawn care companies don't fail because they 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:11.780 don't know how to mow grass. They fail because 00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:15.459 of leadership or they fail because they have 00:01:15.459 --> 00:01:20.489 no systems, no processes. So I want to talk to 00:01:20.489 --> 00:01:26.590 you today about building the right team How you 00:01:26.590 --> 00:01:32.049 do that? to where your team members buy into 00:01:32.049 --> 00:01:38.010 your vision by into your mission statement and 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:42.209 They feel like they're not just cutting grass. 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:48.930 They're a part of a team so is it important for 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.239 every business, regardless of their size, to 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:58.599 have a vision statement and a mission statement. 00:03:03.469 --> 00:03:05.689 business owners themselves have to have a vision 00:03:05.689 --> 00:03:08.710 in mind for their own lives, which I don't think 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:11.669 any of us start out saying, we want to work six 00:03:11.669 --> 00:03:14.030 days or seven days a week from sun up to sun 00:03:14.030 --> 00:03:16.250 down. That's usually not the vision that we have 00:03:16.250 --> 00:03:18.930 for our lives. I think, you know, often we start 00:03:18.930 --> 00:03:22.530 businesses in this industry because we love working 00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:25.090 outside and we love helping other people. And 00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:28.789 I think we all have a certain level of a connection 00:03:28.789 --> 00:03:33.370 to earth and tending the earth. And I think we 00:03:33.370 --> 00:03:36.069 like working with other people. I think we're 00:03:36.069 --> 00:03:38.789 social creatures, and I think that kind of draws 00:03:38.789 --> 00:03:42.030 us into the industry. But the vision that we 00:03:42.030 --> 00:03:45.669 have often is our life vision. And this is seeing 00:03:45.669 --> 00:03:49.169 ourselves, providing for our families, providing 00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:52.830 for ourselves. And when we've got that work done, 00:03:52.870 --> 00:03:55.710 we usually like to also provide for others. And 00:03:55.710 --> 00:04:01.949 creating teams in our businesses helps us navigate 00:04:01.949 --> 00:04:04.460 that. in two ways, really. We're building our 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:07.560 business and meeting this vision for a growing 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:11.759 business, but we're also helping others create 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:15.659 a realistic path forward to their vision of providing 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:18.120 for their families. And so generally, I think 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:19.980 when you go to build a team, it's important to 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:22.100 have a vision for the business, saying where 00:04:22.100 --> 00:04:24.000 it's going to be in 10 years. And it has to be 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.959 big enough that all of the other people on your 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.420 team can see that that vision will serve their 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:34.870 mission personally as well. When I started a 00:04:34.870 --> 00:04:38.610 business, it was to create some financial freedom. 00:04:38.829 --> 00:04:43.550 I wasn't thinking it would be a path to riches 00:04:43.550 --> 00:04:45.790 or anything like that. I just wanted to make 00:04:45.790 --> 00:04:49.230 sure that I could provide a good living for myself 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:51.990 and provide for a family in the future. And I 00:04:51.990 --> 00:04:57.050 think when we share that personal mission and 00:04:57.050 --> 00:04:59.870 we help others see that that's likely at the 00:04:59.870 --> 00:05:02.629 core of their mission and that truthfully, I 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:07.449 think most humans are seeking out meaningful 00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:10.050 connection with other humans, and that we can 00:05:10.050 --> 00:05:12.589 all do that at work and build toward a vision 00:05:12.589 --> 00:05:15.990 together, building a company, serving clients, 00:05:16.310 --> 00:05:19.350 growing a company, creating more financial opportunities 00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:22.889 for ourselves as individuals, but everybody on 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:25.430 the team at the same time. I just think that 00:05:25.430 --> 00:05:32.800 becomes a much clearer way to decide. and also 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:38.259 motivate everybody more instinctively toward 00:05:38.259 --> 00:05:42.540 continuous improvement for themselves and their 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:45.779 life vision and the company and its vision simultaneously. 00:05:46.100 --> 00:05:49.500 And this way I think we end up with a little 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:55.439 bit more of a fabric as a team as opposed to 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.720 having silos on a team where everybody's just 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:00.899 thinking about themselves. And I think, you know, 00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:25.129 quite honestly, That is good. I heard Dr. John 00:06:25.129 --> 00:06:29.730 Maxwell say, if you think you're a leader and 00:06:29.730 --> 00:06:33.220 nobody is following you, You're just taking a 00:06:33.220 --> 00:07:04.879 walk. to prove to people around you that you 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:08.199 have a plan, that the plan is working for you, 00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:10.600 and that it can also work for them. And I think 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:12.699 that's the clarity most people are looking for. 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.600 Well, how long have you been in the green industry? 00:07:18.740 --> 00:07:22.279 I mean, as long as I can remember, if I count 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.980 working in the garden around the farm with my 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:29.100 parents. But I would say the first time I ever 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:43.319 earned I had started doing projects on my own 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:47.120 and planting and doing, I used to dig cedar trees 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.040 off of the farm and plant cedar hedges all around 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:54.639 the town that we lived in. 15 and 16 years old, 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:59.279 taking my father's pickup truck and doing projects 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:01.120 before I actually even had a driver's license. 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:10.560 It's been a long run and I'm 51 today, so. It's 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.699 been most of my life. Well, I believe I read 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:19.319 somewhere that you started and grew a top 100 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:48.889 lawn care business. Yeah. projects and maintenance 00:08:48.889 --> 00:08:52.389 and residential snow clearing and the business 00:08:52.389 --> 00:08:57.809 grew incredibly fast and 15 years later we were 00:08:57.809 --> 00:09:05.970 62nd on the top 100 in North America and we had 00:09:05.970 --> 00:09:08.330 the highest revenue per employee on that list 00:09:08.330 --> 00:09:11.389 at the time so that was I think what I was always 00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:13.789 most interested in I wasn't as worried about 00:09:13.789 --> 00:09:23.320 being the biggest as I was When did you start 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:31.240 LMN? I started LMN in 2009, late 2009 was when 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.279 we went to market. I had started building the 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.100 products in 2007 because I needed products to 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:41.360 scale the business the way I was planning to 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.659 scale it. I really wanted to build a system that 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:49.700 would enable everybody on my team to see the 00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:53.429 metrics. particularly estimated versus actual 00:09:53.429 --> 00:09:56.990 hours so that they knew exactly how long we had 00:09:56.990 --> 00:09:59.250 estimated things to take and that they had a 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:02.029 scoreboard of their own to understand if they 00:10:02.029 --> 00:10:05.429 were hitting targets or not. I built that originally 00:10:05.429 --> 00:10:29.389 so that. you have sold it, and now you are the 00:10:29.389 --> 00:10:34.889 founder and chairman of the LeanScaper. Tell 00:10:34.889 --> 00:10:42.149 us about that. Yeah, so I sold L &M in late 2024. 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.639 was helping him around the same time. And I kind 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.620 of had this thought as I was selling LMN, whether 00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.179 I wanted to help him full time or if I wanted 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:15.659 to go on and continue on the mission that I had 00:11:15.659 --> 00:11:20.960 set out to achieve, which was to help 100 ,000 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.639 landscape companies professionalize in the industry. 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.320 And I hadn't reached that goal with LMN. So I 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.700 felt I had some unfinished work and decided that 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:35.679 the timing was perfect and felt like the universe 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.940 sort of put an opportunity on my lap with AI 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:42.840 entering mainstream day to day right at the same 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.399 time I was doing that transaction. It was kind 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:51.919 of a divine timing, I guess you could say. So 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:57.500 I ended up really focused on developing a product 00:11:57.500 --> 00:12:00.259 that I thought would really help business owners. 00:12:00.649 --> 00:12:03.269 create clarity around the vision and mission, 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:07.129 but more importantly, create durable systems 00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:11.009 that were highly actionable and in hand in the 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:15.389 moment using AI to help landscapers become more 00:12:15.389 --> 00:12:19.009 efficient, but more importantly, really help 00:12:19.009 --> 00:12:22.570 them develop leaders within their company because 00:12:22.570 --> 00:12:25.509 I really believe that everybody's a leader and 00:12:25.509 --> 00:12:28.029 everybody's an entrepreneur. I think that everybody 00:12:28.029 --> 00:12:31.539 gets out of bed every day. to support their own 00:12:31.539 --> 00:12:34.299 mission and their own family and provide for 00:12:34.299 --> 00:12:37.360 themselves. And they just choose a company to 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.639 go to work at, which in my mind, they're working 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.600 for themselves. They just choose a place to go 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.200 to work. That kind of makes everybody self -employed. 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.100 I felt that I could build a product using AI 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:54.519 that would enable people to tap into the mastery 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:58.100 of others and the system's thinking that oftentimes 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.659 great founders, business owners have but struggle 00:13:02.659 --> 00:13:06.620 to get those systems documented in a way where 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:10.139 others can actually use their mastery to get 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:13.299 elite results. And I also believe that we're 00:13:13.299 --> 00:13:16.299 just all average people and some of us have some 00:13:16.299 --> 00:13:19.019 systems that are better than others at various 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:21.539 things where we put our effort and if we can 00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:25.100 document those and share those and utilize AI 00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:28.230 to help others. understand what it looks like 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:31.049 and follow a pathway. Not much different than 00:13:31.049 --> 00:13:33.590 following Google Maps to get from one place to 00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:37.830 another. I feel that's a very possible thing 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:42.210 to do and we decided to build an AI platform 00:13:42.210 --> 00:13:46.470 that enables that. And that's really what Leanscaper 00:13:46.470 --> 00:13:51.149 is. And really, when I built Leanscaper, I wanted 00:13:51.149 --> 00:13:55.129 to really focus on the leaders and that meant 00:13:55.129 --> 00:13:59.360 creating a strong community and a mastermind 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.799 program that puts all the founders and all that 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.460 genius in the same room but more importantly 00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:09.679 also their leaders within their companies because 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.399 I think over the years we've put too much emphasis 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:17.299 on educating owners and not enough on educating 00:14:17.299 --> 00:14:21.019 their teams right I really think that for our 00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:23.840 industry to evolve like some of the other trades 00:14:25.579 --> 00:14:29.179 on apprenticeships and crew manager training 00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:33.080 and manager training and leadership training 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.059 at every level in the business. And so we've 00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:39.460 really put a lot of emphasis around building 00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:42.399 the community, building the programs to build 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.200 those leaders, and then enabling them with an 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.200 AI platform that provides that roadmap and automates 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.350 the workflows in a business so that... owner's 00:14:52.350 --> 00:14:55.889 mastery can be duplicated at scale while they're 00:14:55.889 --> 00:14:58.590 not around, which has traditionally been the 00:14:58.590 --> 00:15:03.529 big challenge for us. I am recovering from a 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:08.169 surgery right after a quip. I came home and we 00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:11.309 started drilling holes for a fence build and 00:15:11.309 --> 00:15:16.149 I hit a stump underground and it locked my auger 00:15:16.149 --> 00:15:19.330 up and threw me about 20 feet across the yard. 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.720 and I tore this rotator cuff in three places, 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.320 tore ligament in half, and drove the collarbone 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.559 into the rotator cuff. So I've been off work 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:38.340 for six months personally, but the business kept 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:45.600 running. So I think that is a testament to investing 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:50.830 in people, making them feel a part of your vision 00:15:50.830 --> 00:15:57.529 and your mission. And I just feel like sometimes 00:15:57.529 --> 00:16:03.690 hiring people is a difficult thing in the green 00:16:03.690 --> 00:16:06.370 industry. But I also think we sometimes make 00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:18.179 it harder than what it really is. business, what 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:21.440 I started to really see was that there were patterns 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.679 that were repeating, and they weren't good patterns. 00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:01.580 more mature and I read a little bit more and 00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:05.920 I had more time, I think, to learn and see those 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.799 patterns were probably a reflection of my own 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.880 leadership more than anything. I started to realize 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:17.960 that I had been hiring the wrong mindset for 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:20.859 many years and it was really just when I was 00:17:20.859 --> 00:17:23.359 bringing the wrong mindset into the business, 00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.799 almost no matter what I did, I wasn't really 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.809 ever the systems and the training, activating 00:17:30.809 --> 00:17:34.329 the way I would expect. And so I think I was 00:17:34.329 --> 00:17:37.210 probably five, six years into business before 00:17:37.210 --> 00:17:40.430 I had a proper interview system. And even then, 00:17:40.430 --> 00:17:43.750 it wasn't great. Probably by year 10 or so, I 00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:46.589 figured out that my interview system had to start 00:17:46.589 --> 00:17:49.829 with unearthing whether or not this candidate 00:17:49.829 --> 00:17:53.710 had a growth mindset. And when I got really good 00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:56.230 at figuring out whether or not they had that, 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.799 first phase of an interview and I moved to like 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.700 a five -part interview I got really good at getting 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:07.099 really good people and that that truly changed 00:18:07.099 --> 00:18:10.000 my business and changed me I think as a leader 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.200 because energy is real and when you surround 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:17.160 yourself with chaotic energy or people that don't 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.720 have a very high ceiling in terms of the way 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:24.440 they see themselves and they've got that fixed 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:26.450 mind mindset or don't believe that there's more 00:18:26.450 --> 00:18:29.609 in store for them, you're really pulling those 00:18:29.609 --> 00:18:33.750 people forward. And when you stop and change 00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:36.430 your interview approach and you start to focus 00:18:36.430 --> 00:18:40.210 on growth mindset and you hire people who have 00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:43.130 done hard things in their lives and overcome 00:18:43.130 --> 00:18:47.609 those hard things, whether that's in school or 00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:53.470 in sports or in the arts, in music, in maybe 00:18:53.470 --> 00:18:56.900 their church. you can see the pattern and when 00:18:56.900 --> 00:19:00.900 you learn how to ask better questions during 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:03.859 interviews and you ask them about times where 00:19:03.859 --> 00:19:06.680 maybe they've set a goal or set out to achieve 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.059 something and found a setback and how they reacted, 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.619 you start to see this pattern emerge where they 00:19:14.619 --> 00:19:18.779 have a vision, they set goals, they want more, 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:22.200 when they see a setback they learn from it, they 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.240 do something different and eventually they either 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.980 achieve or get close to achieving whatever it 00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:33.140 was they set out to achieve. That phase of interviewing 00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:36.259 for me really changed everything. It allowed 00:19:36.259 --> 00:19:42.279 me to really, sorry, we'll have to edit this 00:19:42.279 --> 00:20:15.880 part out. So what I ended up learning when I 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:18.059 started to really change that interview phase 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:22.559 was it became much easier for me to train these 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.920 people and for them to learn because they wanted 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.180 to. And I think I wasted a lot of years trying 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:31.940 to teach people that weren't interested in learning 00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:34.660 because unfortunately, whatever happened to them 00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:38.339 in life, they had set such a ceiling for themselves 00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:41.559 that was so low that it's too uncomfortable having 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:44.529 someone trying to pull. When you start with a 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:47.829 team of people who believe that they can have 00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:52.150 more, everything changes. These people are everywhere. 00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:56.089 I used to hire a lot of street kids and within 00:20:56.089 --> 00:20:58.450 that community I could interview and I could 00:20:58.450 --> 00:21:01.609 see right away who was going to want the growth 00:21:01.609 --> 00:21:04.809 and who wasn't. So it didn't matter whether they 00:21:04.809 --> 00:21:07.490 were a college grad or they came from a church 00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:10.930 group or they came from the street. If they wanted 00:21:10.930 --> 00:21:34.170 more and they had that Let's go back to your 00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:38.349 lawn care business days. When your lawn care 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:41.690 business started growing and you were ready to 00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:47.160 scale. What was it that helped you realize that 00:21:47.160 --> 00:22:21.549 you couldn't do it all by yourself? that you 00:22:21.549 --> 00:22:25.069 can teach apprentices a trade and everything 00:22:25.069 --> 00:22:27.549 they need to know about a trade in four years. 00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:31.650 And then you can groom them into becoming great 00:22:31.650 --> 00:22:34.390 leaders over the course of a few years thereafter. 00:22:34.710 --> 00:22:37.549 And by year, somewhere between five and year 00:22:37.549 --> 00:22:43.410 seven, if you methodically grow people, you can 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:47.509 really scale around that. So my goal when I started 00:22:47.509 --> 00:22:50.380 the business wasn't to run an owner. operator 00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:52.559 business, it was to build a business where I 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.740 could build people. And I struggled figuring 00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:58.900 out how to do it, despite having worked in that 00:22:58.900 --> 00:23:02.660 environment and seen it. What I was missing early 00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:06.619 on was knowing who to select. But once I got 00:23:06.619 --> 00:23:09.920 good at selecting the right people, I was using 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:21.200 an apprenticeship program. that recipe really 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:24.720 began to work well. Again, knowing who to choose 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.839 was the most important thing, but then using 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.140 the apprenticeship model to train people to understand 00:23:32.140 --> 00:23:34.579 how to do the work and get the skills and how 00:23:34.579 --> 00:23:38.180 to work with others and how to understand safety, 00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:42.539 quality, efficiency, customer service over the 00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:44.700 course of three or four years, depending on the 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:47.700 role, and then putting them through leadership 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:52.480 training. became the way I did it but the knowing 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.319 I think was from my apprenticeship seeing that 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:59.980 that's how it's done in a more technical environment 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:03.299 like that where there's many many different trades 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:08.819 from carpenters to plumbers to electricians, 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.400 welders and just about every other trade you 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:18.420 can I think there's three important things for 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:21.220 a lawn care business or a service business owner 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:26.400 to know. Number one, what are the things that 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:34.559 only I can do as the owner? Number two, what 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:40.799 can I delegate? Number three, what can I eliminate? 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.160 Yes sir. So did you struggle in the beginning 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:59.079 of your scaling with delegation? Absolutely. 00:25:51.220 --> 00:25:54.259 There's many, many, many other tasks that people 00:25:54.259 --> 00:25:57.960 just don't know how to do yet. And when you attach 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.380 that yet piece to it, it motivates you and it 00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:08.559 puts the onus on you to teach them. And I think 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:13.220 having systems, SOPs, standard operating procedures 00:26:13.220 --> 00:26:16.519 that are well documented with the basic steps, 00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.680 I don't believe in writing a novel for an SOP. 00:26:19.549 --> 00:26:25.769 basic steps and when we read an SOP to an employee 00:26:25.769 --> 00:26:30.369 and they understand it and they read it and they 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:34.269 initial it and then we show them that procedure 00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:38.829 one time two three five maybe they'll master 00:26:38.829 --> 00:26:42.029 that procedure and so you know generally speaking 00:26:42.029 --> 00:26:45.029 I think when we have procedures for all of our 00:26:45.029 --> 00:26:48.150 major workflows in our business and when we use 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:53.180 them day to day as a training tool, as a clear 00:26:53.180 --> 00:26:57.660 path of what good looks like. And when we make 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:00.859 sure that the people that are working with us 00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:05.680 understand the SOP and how to apply it, we remove 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.640 one bottleneck at a time. And if we just show 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.140 up every day as business owners and we try to 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:15.660 get 1 % better, this is why I love Lean so much. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.700 when we try to get 1 % better each day, when 00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:23.079 we look back after a year, if we work 250 days, 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:28.700 we're 250 times better. And if that means I write 00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:32.519 one workflow every day or three every week and 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.119 I train the team to those and I make sure that 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.960 they understand them, then I build this organizational 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.960 muscle over time because they start teaching 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.160 others using the same SOP. And when I had hundreds 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.099 of employees, I didn't teach anybody anything 00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:53.660 anymore. But they taught each other using those 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:56.940 SOPs that we initially built together, and that 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.180 they were now upgrading on their own. They were 00:27:59.180 --> 00:28:02.519 improving those SOPs over time. And we had an 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.259 approval process. So if you didn't like the SOP, 00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:07.720 you could make a recommendation to approve it, 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.880 and we'd improve it. And then that was the new 00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.539 way of doing things. And I believe that SOPs 00:28:13.539 --> 00:28:19.410 are just understand what the end is that we have 00:28:19.410 --> 00:28:22.009 in mind, that we reverse engineer all the steps 00:28:22.009 --> 00:28:24.750 to get there, show them the pathway, and then 00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:28.430 we let them go and do that on their own. I think 00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:31.170 that we all think we're a little more special 00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:34.509 than we are. The truth is, if we show someone 00:28:34.509 --> 00:28:37.230 the pathway, they'll get to the same result. 00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:42.670 What was maybe one of the hardest things for 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:46.890 you to delegate? I think when you go to delegate, 00:28:47.230 --> 00:28:52.150 you've got to trust that person and know that 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:55.869 you have invested in them to the point where 00:28:55.869 --> 00:28:58.829 they're going to do it just like you would do 00:28:58.829 --> 00:29:02.269 it. So what was the one thing that you were maybe 00:29:02.269 --> 00:29:55.160 a little hesitant to delegate? but we were also 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:59.019 very family -like in that we could disagree, 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:03.140 we could agree. It didn't really matter much 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:06.759 either way to us. We were very comfortable that 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.099 way, just the same as two kids in the backseat 00:30:10.099 --> 00:30:15.640 of the car disagreeing on which game to play. 00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:19.940 For us, making a disagreement about what good 00:30:19.940 --> 00:30:23.160 looks like was fine. We were okay with that. 00:30:24.650 --> 00:30:26.809 And that's not normal. I think a lot of times 00:30:26.809 --> 00:30:30.130 people used to come into the company and feel 00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:32.829 uncomfortable with the way that we would debate 00:30:32.829 --> 00:30:35.730 and create plans and decide on what we were going 00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:37.990 to do and what we were going to prioritize and 00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:40.549 what we weren't and our lead initiatives with 00:30:40.549 --> 00:30:43.289 waste elimination and whatnot. So that was a 00:30:43.289 --> 00:30:47.450 hard one, I think, for me to let go. A second 00:30:47.450 --> 00:31:48.750 one that was really difficult. It was for me 00:31:48.750 --> 00:31:54.049 a really hard thing to train people how to estimate 00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:59.630 accurately and how to sell as a helper, not as 00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:01.730 a slimy salesman. That's always been a thing 00:32:01.730 --> 00:32:05.309 for me, is our job is to help people make decisions. 00:32:05.950 --> 00:32:08.390 And they'll decide to do business with us if 00:32:08.390 --> 00:32:11.150 we're the right company. So let's not sell them. 00:32:11.250 --> 00:32:14.150 Let's just help them make a decision. And getting 00:32:14.150 --> 00:32:17.029 that right was another one that I was really 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:19.880 hard for me to let go of, because I'm really 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.200 particular about two things. One, the quality 00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.720 of the people that join our company, and two, 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:28.059 the quality of the revenue or the customers that 00:32:28.059 --> 00:32:30.779 we decide to service. And so those two were definitely 00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:34.539 the hard ones to let go of, but I do think that 00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:37.880 if you want to scale beyond a 10 or 12 person 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.859 company, I do think that you have to accept that 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.500 other people have to have those skills and that 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:50.079 they can be trained. It's good. Let's take a 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.619 short break and hear a word from our show sponsor. 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:55.880 Tired of chasing payments and losing track of 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.559 jobs? Eartha Pro back office software makes it 00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:02.480 simple for solo guys and small lawn care and 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:06.200 landscaping crews schedule invoice and organize 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.839 all in the same place. We also have a mobile 00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:11.740 app and integrate into QuickBooks. Sign up at 00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:14.440 EarthaPro .com with promo code the Lawn Hustle 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:18.660 11. for a $50 Amazon gift card, 10 % off and 00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:21.380 personalized onboarding. Eartha Pro, you run 00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:25.420 the outside work, we run the office. And we're 00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:30.880 back with Mark Bradley, the chairman and founder 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:37.920 of LMN and now Leanscaper. We want to talk for 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:50.220 a minute about hiring. What traits? Is there 00:33:50.220 --> 00:36:05.960 a certain trait? So things like that are often 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:12.019 what we're looking for. The attitude toward learning, 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:17.380 the attitude toward customers, the attitude toward 00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:21.099 coworkers or past employees or employers, sorry, 00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.559 has a big impact also on my decision making. 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.260 And then really looking at their work history 00:36:27.260 --> 00:36:32.039 and just understanding what they've done and 00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:35.340 why they left. and what they were seeking next. 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:38.920 And, you know, with young workers, you're not 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:41.000 going to see people that have been in roles for 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.860 five years. It's just not the way it is. So they've 00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.440 probably had a lot of six -month to one -year 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.280 jobs. But what I'm looking for is, you know, 00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:52.360 what did you learn at that job? What did you 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:55.780 like? What didn't you like? Why did you leave? 00:36:56.139 --> 00:36:58.460 And then looking at why they took the next job 00:36:58.460 --> 00:37:00.300 and what they learned there, what I'm looking 00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:03.659 for is progress. When you see somebody that's 00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:07.599 gone from maybe 16 years old to 25 years old 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.440 with very little progression, it tells a story 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:15.099 where if somebody's been 16 working at the grocery 00:37:15.099 --> 00:37:18.940 store and 18, they decided to go and work with 00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:21.699 their uncle that had a plumbing business and 00:37:21.699 --> 00:37:24.760 they didn't stay with it after two years because 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:27.280 they didn't see that as being a fulfilling career, 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.460 but they learned a lot about plumbing and they're 00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:32.519 still interested in working in the trades. That's 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.960 okay. It's a pivot. But if I start to see people 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:38.199 that have just kind of done the same type of 00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:40.480 jobs and never really stuck around and their 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.239 reason for leaving is just, I didn't like the 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.940 boss or I didn't like this coworker or the customers 00:37:45.940 --> 00:37:49.239 were a nightmare. It starts to paint a picture. 00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:52.780 And I'm not saying that it's not okay to hire 00:37:52.780 --> 00:37:55.800 people who have strong opinions about their former 00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.500 employers because I believe that it's good when 00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:00.260 somebody tells me the truth and they say, well, 00:38:00.260 --> 00:38:02.869 hey, listen, I worked there for five years, and 00:38:02.869 --> 00:38:05.329 they wouldn't give me a raise, so I decided to 00:38:05.329 --> 00:38:07.989 leave. I don't mind that, because that tells 00:38:07.989 --> 00:38:12.849 me that they want more. And if there's a reason, 00:38:12.869 --> 00:38:14.650 I'll usually say, well, why did you think you 00:38:14.650 --> 00:38:16.690 deserved a raise? And if they say, well, because 00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:18.969 I was longest there, that's not a good reason. 00:38:19.070 --> 00:38:22.750 But if they tell me, I produced double the revenue 00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:24.530 of all the other crews, but I was only getting 00:38:24.530 --> 00:38:27.210 $2 an hour more, well, that's the person I want 00:38:27.210 --> 00:38:30.469 to hire. And so I'm usually just trying to have 00:38:30.710 --> 00:38:33.489 enough conversation with them to understand how 00:38:33.489 --> 00:38:37.389 they think. And that's really what I'm looking 00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:40.610 for when I'm hiring younger people. Oh, is there 00:38:40.610 --> 00:38:45.329 a red flag that you look for in people that you 00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:50.170 would not hire? Yeah, I think the big one is, 00:38:50.389 --> 00:38:52.829 again, early in that interview process when those 00:38:52.829 --> 00:38:56.070 behavioral pre -interview questions go out, I 00:38:56.070 --> 00:38:58.389 like to ask tough questions. That's why I like 00:38:58.389 --> 00:39:04.199 it being because in person, I think it's hard 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:06.539 for a young person to get put on the spot and 00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:08.380 answer these questions. So they tend to give 00:39:08.380 --> 00:39:12.079 you short answers, which don't work. And so by 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.599 giving them the form, if they put short answers 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:17.820 on the form, then it shows me that they have 00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:21.599 a very short attention to detail, and they don't 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.539 really care what other people think. And that 00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:27.400 tells me that they're not going to be very coachable. 00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:33.820 The thing that tells me most about the coachability 00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:37.860 is experience in the past, learning. And so I'm 00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:40.480 asking a lot of behavioral questions around what 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.480 did you learn from this experience or tell me 00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:48.340 about a time you set out to achieve a goal and 00:39:48.340 --> 00:39:51.400 you didn't hit the goal in the timeline expected. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.400 What did you learn from and tell me about what 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:58.000 you did next? And if they give me a short answer 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.909 to that one, And that tells me they don't have 00:40:00.909 --> 00:40:04.269 a lot of inner drive. And again, they're not 00:40:04.269 --> 00:40:06.590 that coachable at that point because they don't 00:40:06.590 --> 00:40:09.530 want anything, not enough to go and do the work. 00:40:09.969 --> 00:40:12.670 So I would say the deal breaker for me is usually 00:40:12.670 --> 00:40:16.090 right there. It's like, if they don't cross that 00:40:16.090 --> 00:40:20.349 line in their answers to tell me that they're 00:40:20.349 --> 00:40:22.829 willing to do hard things and push through hard 00:40:22.829 --> 00:40:25.809 things to get a result, then I really don't think 00:40:25.809 --> 00:40:28.250 they're coachable. And if they're not coachable, 00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:31.289 then. It doesn't matter how good our leaders 00:40:31.289 --> 00:40:34.210 are, how good our systems are, how good our training 00:40:34.210 --> 00:40:37.010 programs are. They're not going to cross that 00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:40.429 line just because we're pulling them. And I feel 00:40:40.429 --> 00:40:43.969 those are typically the people that end up being 00:40:43.969 --> 00:40:46.670 late all the time. They don't do the training. 00:40:46.829 --> 00:40:50.610 When they do the training, they do it in the 00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:54.030 most minimal effort possible. And they train 00:40:54.030 --> 00:40:56.969 themselves to do that. And they kind of look 00:40:56.969 --> 00:40:59.860 for the path of least risk. distance, even when 00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:02.599 it's not good for them. And that's a hard thing 00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:07.559 to change. In our industry, I believe we are 00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:12.400 moving from the chuck in the truck or Dan in 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:20.280 the van into a more professional level. What 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:25.039 changes have you seen in the green industry from 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:28.969 say the beginning and to where we are now? that 00:41:28.969 --> 00:42:19.829 you are most proud of. size companies in the 00:42:19.829 --> 00:42:22.630 industry. And certainly on the upper end, we've 00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:26.130 got P companies doing massive roll ups and building 00:42:26.130 --> 00:42:30.929 multi hundred million dollar platforms. But the 00:42:30.929 --> 00:42:34.150 truth is the bulk of the industry is really today 00:42:34.150 --> 00:42:37.769 being managed by the one to five million dollar 00:42:37.769 --> 00:42:41.929 operators. There's a lot of businesses in that 00:42:41.929 --> 00:42:45.090 category. And that is what I've seen shift the 00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:48.380 most. The average landscape. When I got into 00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:52.059 the business back in the early 90s, they were 00:42:52.059 --> 00:42:55.280 around $500 ,000. And $1 million was a big company 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:58.679 at the time. And now what we're seeing is that 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.699 I think the norm, the typical companies I'm seeing 00:43:01.699 --> 00:43:05.760 are more in that sort of $3 million range if 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.739 they're doing some installation, some enhancement, 00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.280 and some lawn. And I'm seeing the lawn companies 00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.159 that are smaller lawn companies. really starting 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:18.320 to average out closer to a million dollars, which 00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:23.360 is a sizable revenue for a small business. And 00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:25.920 I think if I were to say what I've seen the most 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:29.780 is with that average company size increasing, 00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:34.519 there's more availability of money for overhead 00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:39.179 staff. And overhead staff create systems and 00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:42.099 manage systems, not professionalize the business. 00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:46.079 answering the phone professionally, or building 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.980 more professional proposals, or having a more 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:53.880 robust sales process, or better customer service, 00:43:54.219 --> 00:43:58.440 or a more clear financial truth with better accounting. 00:43:59.059 --> 00:44:01.960 These things are all byproduct of having more 00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:04.860 money to spend on overhead salaries. And so I 00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:08.380 think as the industry has increased the average 00:44:08.380 --> 00:44:11.900 company revenue, we've also been fortunate, I 00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:30.119 think, to start I think we all start off as checking 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:36.000 the truck to a certain degree. I know I did. 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.860 I didn't know my numbers. I didn't know what 00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:45.440 to charge. You know, I was thinking. $25 is better 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.719 than nothing. But then I realized very quickly 00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.179 that it's not just that $25. It cost me money 00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:58.039 to do that job. Gas in the vehicle, gas in the 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:02.079 equipment, insurance, you know, the list goes 00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:05.480 on and on. So out of that 25, I might have made 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:09.739 seven or eight bucks for a job like that. So 00:45:09.739 --> 00:45:12.519 it just wasn't worth it. So I had to learn very 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:16.199 quickly to raise my prices, and to learn very 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:20.300 quickly the importance of knowing who you want 00:45:20.300 --> 00:45:24.000 to work for, what neighbors, neighborhoods you 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.159 want to work in. And, you know, I think with 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:34.159 people like Brian Fullerton, who has his training 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:38.039 classes and sessions and get togethers, Naylor 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:43.340 Taliaferro, Paul Jameson, these guys They are 00:45:43.340 --> 00:45:48.320 investing in people you are investing with the 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:52.280 lean scaper and giving people Opportunity to 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.320 be a part of a community that's bigger than them 00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.460 and I think that is what's moving us from the 00:46:00.460 --> 00:46:04.199 chuck in the truck and It's helping us realize. 00:46:04.699 --> 00:46:09.320 I'm not just cutting grass. I am running a business 00:46:09.320 --> 00:47:30.550 You know The sooner we make their lives a little 00:47:30.550 --> 00:47:33.949 better and all the people that they impact, whether 00:47:33.949 --> 00:47:36.650 it be their families they're providing for, or 00:47:36.650 --> 00:47:40.769 their employees and their families, I think as 00:47:40.769 --> 00:47:45.190 we evolve and we learn, sharing that with others 00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:49.909 is how we move forward as a species and I think 00:47:49.909 --> 00:48:01.059 being a part of community. gives us this unusual 00:48:01.059 --> 00:48:05.000 opportunity to learn from others, but also be 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.500 more vulnerable. And I think that's important 00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:27.460 as business. vulnerable leaders who share, hey, 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:32.559 I had this struggle. I applied this wisdom that 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:36.059 I gained either through the mistakes I made or 00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:39.639 maybe even from somebody else. And I tried that 00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:41.780 out and here was my new result. And you should 00:48:41.780 --> 00:48:44.360 give it a shot as well. It worked for me. And 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.059 I think that has really changed our industry 00:48:47.059 --> 00:48:49.980 exponentially, which is why I actually believe. 00:49:10.059 --> 00:49:13.539 They didn't know before either. I think we're 00:49:13.539 --> 00:49:16.440 social creatures. We learn this way. And I really 00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.599 think it's got a massive impact on professionalization. 00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:26.800 Well, we've been going for 49 minutes. I want 00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.780 to be mindful of your time. I know you're a very 00:49:29.780 --> 00:49:33.820 busy man. But I want to express my appreciation 00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:38.420 again for you coming on the show. And tell our 00:49:38.420 --> 00:49:41.630 listeners. how they can become a part of Lanescaper 00:49:41.630 --> 00:49:44.150 and how they can connect with you if they choose 00:49:44.150 --> 00:50:52.909 to. Over the course of the year, we basically 00:50:52.909 --> 00:50:56.550 built every workflow that powers a company. At 00:50:56.550 --> 00:50:59.829 that point, you built your own software and you 00:50:59.829 --> 00:51:01.889 can count on the fact that you're going to be 00:51:01.889 --> 00:51:07.289 a leading organization. Well, I appreciate you 00:51:07.289 --> 00:51:11.289 all listening to the Lawn Hustle podcast. Until 00:51:11.289 --> 00:51:17.230 we talk again, remember to work smarter and keep 00:51:17.230 --> 00:51:20.420 making a profit. That's what we're out to do. 00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:24.219 We're out to be successful. And we want to help 00:51:24.219 --> 00:51:27.239 each and everyone that we can find that level 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:30.840 of success. Mark, thank you for being on the 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:32.699 line hustle. We appreciate you.