WEBVTT 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.600 Welcome back to the Lawn Hustle Podcast, the 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:32.759 lawn care podcast that helps build better leaders 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:37.119 and better businesses. Today we have Kevin Scott, 00:00:37.299 --> 00:00:40.939 the wealthy landskeeper, with us and I appreciate 00:00:40.939 --> 00:00:44.020 you joining the Lawn Hustle. Thank you. Thanks 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:47.520 for having me, Andy. It's great to be here. Yes, 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:52.929 sir. Tell our listeners your background your 00:00:52.929 --> 00:00:58.310 story What got you into landscaping? And what 00:00:58.310 --> 00:01:03.409 got you to where you are today? Okay I'll keep 00:01:03.409 --> 00:01:07.069 I'll give you the Coles notes version, but Left 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:10.230 high school in grade 11 Went to work for an irrigation 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.709 company for a couple years doing some gulf irrigation 00:01:13.709 --> 00:01:18.719 as well as residential from there I did a lot 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:21.400 of golf construction work. And then I went back 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:23.719 to school, got a horticulture degree when I was 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:29.859 like 24, came out of that and joined a golf construction 00:01:29.859 --> 00:01:32.200 company. We were building golf courses all around 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.799 Ontario during the golf boom from like 97 to 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:40.219 07. Probably built eight or nine golf courses 00:01:40.219 --> 00:01:42.379 over that period of time with a lot of renovations 00:01:42.379 --> 00:01:45.299 and really great projects, you know, working 00:01:45.299 --> 00:01:49.819 with great architects. amazing earth shapers, 00:01:50.019 --> 00:01:52.079 we removed a lot of earth, we had tons of scrapers 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.640 and rock trucks running around, obviously all 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.599 the drainage and irrigation, seeding, planting, 00:01:57.819 --> 00:02:00.480 sodding, and then we'd have the clubhouse landscapes 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.640 as well. But I was always out of town, like there 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.000 was two or three projects over a 10 -year period 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.120 that I was able to stay at home and work from 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.800 home, but often I would be gone kind of Monday 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:14.039 to Wednesday, come home Wednesday night, back 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.939 Friday. And that was fine in the beginning, but 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:20.219 then, you know, had a couple of young girls. 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:23.919 It was getting tougher to be away. And my family 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:25.919 was all from Muskoka, which is the area that 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:30.379 we have our Muskoka Landscapers Company. We were 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:31.919 living in Richmond Hill at the time that I was 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.860 in the golf construction, but I knew I always 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:36.120 knew I wanted to do something on my own. We knew 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.620 we wanted to get back to Muskoka. My wife's parents 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:42.020 had retired in Muskoka. So we started Muskoka 00:02:42.020 --> 00:02:45.520 Landscapers. That was 18 years ago. It was kind 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:47.460 of good timing because the golf boom sort of 00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:51.099 ended in 08. Certainly for new construction, 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.919 it's picked up again since COVID, but that was 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.840 kind of the start of Muskoka landscapers. And 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.300 we started like every other business. We had 00:02:58.300 --> 00:03:01.900 three or four people the first year. We were 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:03.759 doing whatever we could get our hands on. We 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:05.759 focused mainly on construction type work, not 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:09.349 as much maintenance at the beginning. And we 00:03:09.349 --> 00:03:12.469 grew that very quickly. We grew to 15 or 20 people 00:03:12.469 --> 00:03:14.729 within three or four years. We started doing 00:03:14.729 --> 00:03:18.430 maintenance. We built the maintenance up to a 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:22.870 substantial annual amount. We ended up converting 00:03:22.870 --> 00:03:25.310 it into its own business because now the construction 00:03:25.310 --> 00:03:29.349 side was really growing. We got to eight, nine, 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:34.490 $10 million in revenue fairly quickly. Maintenance 00:03:34.490 --> 00:03:36.830 at the time, we just weren't really set up properly 00:03:36.830 --> 00:03:40.590 for it. I shouldn't say we didn't have the right 00:03:40.590 --> 00:03:42.550 people. We had some of the right people. We didn't 00:03:42.550 --> 00:03:44.750 have the right systems. We didn't have the right 00:03:44.750 --> 00:03:48.610 technology. There was tons of competition at 00:03:48.610 --> 00:03:50.849 the time. But anyway, we built that into a separate 00:03:50.849 --> 00:03:54.050 business and then I sold it. This year, we're 00:03:54.050 --> 00:03:56.689 getting back into the maintenance business. And 00:03:56.689 --> 00:04:00.689 I've had a lot of people ask me why, but it's 00:04:00.689 --> 00:04:03.250 because of the knowledge we have now. We know 00:04:03.250 --> 00:04:05.069 that we can perform at a high level. We have 00:04:05.069 --> 00:04:06.889 the systems to do it. We have the people to do 00:04:06.889 --> 00:04:10.250 it. We have the customers to do it. So we're 00:04:10.250 --> 00:04:14.270 really excited about diving back into that. And 00:04:14.270 --> 00:04:16.449 yeah, on the design build side, we have about 00:04:16.449 --> 00:04:20.730 38 people. Fairly seasonal in Canada where we 00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:22.709 are. You know, we have three months from January 00:04:22.709 --> 00:04:24.769 to March where we don't do a lot of outdoor work 00:04:24.769 --> 00:04:27.709 other than excavation, some blasting work, maybe 00:04:27.709 --> 00:04:29.430 a little bit of island work off the ice if we 00:04:29.430 --> 00:04:32.509 need to. But yeah, we've got a great thing going. 00:04:32.750 --> 00:04:34.649 We've got a really good team. We've got a great 00:04:34.649 --> 00:04:40.769 management system. And Wealthy Landscaper started 00:04:40.769 --> 00:04:43.449 a year ago, a year and a half ago now. Started 00:04:43.449 --> 00:04:47.189 out as something I always wanted to do. One, 00:04:47.649 --> 00:04:49.550 the industry has been good to me. I wanted to 00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:53.089 do something for the industry. And we've worked 00:04:53.089 --> 00:04:55.949 really closely with Leanscaper. That's a new 00:04:55.949 --> 00:04:57.670 company for anybody who hasn't heard about it. 00:04:57.670 --> 00:05:01.019 I'm sure you see them everywhere. Their mission 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:04.519 and vision is very similar to mine. I really 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.579 enjoy the people there. I've known Mark for years. 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:08.959 And that's kind of in the transition into the 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:11.339 wealthy landscaper. It's more, you know, coaching 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:13.759 some clients, trying to work with other people 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.759 in the industry, still working on being a better 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:21.600 leader myself. And yeah, love the grind, love 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:26.819 the industry. That's how I got here. Scalability 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:31.860 is one of the biggest pain points. for a business 00:05:31.860 --> 00:05:36.259 in the green industry, because people get stuck 00:05:36.259 --> 00:05:40.079 in a mindset that they're just cutting grass. 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.040 If we can change that mindset from thinking, 00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:49.319 I just cut grass, to where we start thinking 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:55.399 of ourselves as someone who runs a legitimate 00:05:55.399 --> 00:06:01.029 business. We want to talk a little bit about 00:06:01.029 --> 00:06:05.610 scalability. So let me ask you, what does a scalable 00:06:05.610 --> 00:06:11.230 business look like to you? It's one that's always 00:06:11.230 --> 00:06:15.069 building leaders. In order to lead, you need 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:18.790 to replace yourself or take away some of your 00:06:18.790 --> 00:06:22.610 workload so that you can focus on sales and management 00:06:22.610 --> 00:06:27.100 systems and building SOPs. Becoming a better 00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:29.560 leader because I think in our industry a lot 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.759 of people often come from the field So we're 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.759 very good at the work. We understand it We know 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.699 how to do it But often we don't have a business 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:41.779 background. So I think a lot of people struggle 00:06:41.779 --> 00:06:45.160 In the in the in the industry and all at different 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.019 levels because I think you know The ones and 00:06:47.019 --> 00:06:49.319 threes are always the toughest part 1 million 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:53.100 is tough to hit 3 million stuff to break But 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:56.240 once you can get beyond that you know, often 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.019 those systems will get you to 10. So I think 00:07:00.019 --> 00:07:04.259 it's, scalability is tough, but it's very predictable 00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:07.819 if you do the right things. Well, is there a 00:07:07.819 --> 00:07:18.879 difference between growth and scalability? Yeah, 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:22.180 I think a little bit of, you know, a company 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:25.519 can always have growth or plan for growth. It 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:27.480 doesn't necessarily mean that they're scaling. 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:32.579 You can have growth by conserving waste. I think 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:35.759 a lot of companies overlook waste. We've been 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.759 working on it for three or four years now and 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.120 I can say for sure it has improved our net by 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:45.540 five or six percent. But it's work. The sooner 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:49.019 people start looking at waste as cash and whether 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:52.079 that's inefficiency in roots, the wrong equipment, 00:07:52.420 --> 00:07:57.259 the wrong people, the wrong systems. There's 00:07:57.259 --> 00:08:00.079 50 or 60 things that can add up to be waste, 00:08:00.379 --> 00:08:03.180 breaks are too long, coffee's too long in the 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.319 morning. There's all these things that add up 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:06.939 to a dollar amount at the end of the year. And 00:08:06.939 --> 00:08:10.100 I think when people really start focusing on 00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:13.860 those, they can grow their business without having 00:08:13.860 --> 00:08:16.529 to add people. just by being more efficient. 00:08:16.589 --> 00:08:18.670 So I think that's one of those things too, like 00:08:18.670 --> 00:08:20.629 when companies get to a million, they should 00:08:20.629 --> 00:08:24.050 really take a bit of time to focus on waste, 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:26.689 you know, maybe even prior to that, you know, 00:08:27.009 --> 00:08:29.350 but it's an ongoing thing that needs to be reviewed 00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:32.230 every year and talked about every huddle. And 00:08:32.230 --> 00:08:34.929 so, yeah, I think there's a difference. Scalability, 00:08:35.049 --> 00:08:37.409 you're more planning to grow, you know, and you're 00:08:37.409 --> 00:08:38.889 going to do that through adding people, adding 00:08:38.889 --> 00:08:41.590 customers, whether it's construction or maintenance. 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:45.769 But yeah, that'd be my... My two cents on the 00:08:45.769 --> 00:08:49.669 difference. Well, you can be busy and not be 00:08:49.669 --> 00:08:54.730 profitable. Been there too. Been there too. And 00:08:54.730 --> 00:08:58.190 I think a lot of businesses are at that point 00:08:58.190 --> 00:09:03.669 in the green industry because we know how to 00:09:03.669 --> 00:09:06.330 stripe out a yard. We know how to edge a driveway 00:09:06.330 --> 00:09:09.789 and a sidewalk, to trim the hedges, to install 00:09:09.789 --> 00:09:14.009 mulch or river rock. We know how to do the work, 00:09:14.009 --> 00:09:18.250 but I think sometimes we get stuck in that thinking 00:09:18.250 --> 00:09:21.909 That I'm just cutting grass You know, I'm not 00:09:21.909 --> 00:09:26.809 really doing anything more But we got to change 00:09:26.809 --> 00:09:31.409 The way we think you know, I believe and and 00:09:31.409 --> 00:09:35.690 I believe you will probably agree You are what 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:40.289 you think you are Yes, if you think you're a 00:09:40.289 --> 00:09:44.100 loser you've already lost. But if you think you're 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:48.259 a winner, you think you can overcome. And overcoming 00:09:48.259 --> 00:09:51.740 cancer was the hardest thing I ever ever came 00:09:51.740 --> 00:09:56.620 in my life. I'm sure. And I was up and down, 00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:59.700 depressed, sad, discouraged, wanted to quit, 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:03.360 wanted to give up. But there was something inside 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.580 me said you were not born to be a quitter. And 00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:10.909 I just... Made up my mind every time I get knocked 00:10:10.909 --> 00:10:14.149 down. I'm gonna get back up. I'm gonna keep fighting 00:10:14.149 --> 00:10:19.450 so What are some of the biggest mistakes that 00:10:19.450 --> 00:10:23.129 you have seen working with other landscape businesses? 00:10:24.669 --> 00:10:27.429 What are some of the mistakes you have seen them 00:10:27.429 --> 00:10:31.389 make? When they're trying to scale trying to 00:10:31.389 --> 00:10:35.070 take their business to the next level Yeah, I 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:37.330 mean, there's many, depending on what level they're 00:10:37.330 --> 00:10:40.049 at, they have different issues usually. First 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:43.090 off though, I mean, the story is incredible. 00:10:43.330 --> 00:10:45.370 The story is incredible. And I think to your 00:10:45.370 --> 00:10:48.590 point about belief, a lot of people have limiting 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:51.350 beliefs in themselves for whatever reason, whether 00:10:51.350 --> 00:10:53.289 it's how they grew up or it's the work they do 00:10:53.289 --> 00:10:57.409 now. But I'd say in our industry, it has improved 00:10:57.409 --> 00:11:01.240 dramatically in the past five, six years. you're 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:04.039 seeing businesses succeed and be very profitable, 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:06.899 small companies, big companies, mid -sized companies, 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:11.220 with a real focus on being a business. And now 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:14.019 with private equity looking at everything, it's 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:15.980 all the more reason to be making sure you're 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:19.700 running your business well. But the problems 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:22.559 I would see, the main problem is implementation. 00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:25.690 I talk about this a lot. A lot of the information 00:11:25.690 --> 00:11:28.230 on how to scale a business, how to grow a business, 00:11:28.509 --> 00:11:31.730 how to advertise properly, you can find the information. 00:11:32.389 --> 00:11:36.509 You can build the systems. It's all out there 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:41.929 to get, especially with AI. But a lot of people 00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:45.110 just can't implement. And sometimes they can't 00:11:45.110 --> 00:11:48.549 because they just don't believe they can. A lot 00:11:48.549 --> 00:11:53.769 of people give up before they really try. And 00:11:53.769 --> 00:11:56.330 it's an unfortunate thing. I understand why it 00:11:56.330 --> 00:11:59.389 happens, but I think as an industry, all the 00:11:59.389 --> 00:12:01.070 things that are happening with the improving, 00:12:02.330 --> 00:12:04.409 I think it's really a great opportunity for people 00:12:04.409 --> 00:12:06.210 who do feel like they're struggling with that 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:08.549 implementation. I mean, there's all kinds of 00:12:08.549 --> 00:12:10.490 coaches, there's all kinds of resources. You 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:15.129 can find the information online. It's about the 00:12:15.129 --> 00:12:18.629 implementation and not biting off too much. I 00:12:18.629 --> 00:12:21.480 know so many businesses that... It happens a 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.519 lot after events. You leave, you're excited, 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:27.860 there's 25 or 50 things on your mind that you're 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:30.860 like, man, we got to do all these things. You 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:34.320 come back, you bombard your team, they feel overwhelmed, 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.200 they think you're crazy. Whereas if you were 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:40.679 to just settle back a little bit, pick two or 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:42.240 three things that you know are going to really 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.779 move the needle, and that maybe there's a bit 00:12:44.779 --> 00:12:46.879 of low -hanging fruit in your business to fix. 00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:52.299 work towards two or three things at a time, get 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:55.039 them implemented well, have the team buy in, 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:58.500 even if you only have two or three people. Even 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.200 when you're a smaller company, I think implementing 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.320 things is no different than when you have 100 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.659 people. They got to believe it. They got to see 00:13:05.659 --> 00:13:08.220 why it's better for them and create that clarity. 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:12.620 Because ultimately, everybody wants that. Everybody 00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:16.240 wants to be clear on, if I do this, this is how 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.750 long it should take, this is why. This is what 00:13:18.750 --> 00:13:21.289 happens if I do it. You know, when people know 00:13:21.289 --> 00:13:24.009 all those things, it's a lot easier for them 00:13:24.009 --> 00:13:27.629 to buy in. And the worst thing you can do is 00:13:27.629 --> 00:13:31.029 release new things, and then in a month, pull 00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:34.049 back on them. Because now you're creating people 00:13:34.049 --> 00:13:38.129 that seen it didn't work. Next time you try and 00:13:38.129 --> 00:13:41.570 do it, they're less confident in you. So anyway, 00:13:41.610 --> 00:13:44.269 I could go on about implementation for hours, 00:13:44.269 --> 00:13:47.470 but I think it is truly the hardest part of our 00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:50.929 business. And some of it's because our owners 00:13:50.929 --> 00:13:54.529 can't buy into it and don't want to put the effort 00:13:54.529 --> 00:13:57.230 into it because sometimes they feel like the 00:13:57.230 --> 00:14:01.769 value isn't there. And also because it's hard. 00:14:02.429 --> 00:14:06.169 It's hard to do. Would you feel like there is 00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:11.750 a revenue level that one needs to get to before 00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:15.149 they try to scale a business? And what should 00:14:15.149 --> 00:14:19.870 they focus on to get to that revenue level? Right. 00:14:20.850 --> 00:14:24.309 Again, lots of different things. But if you're 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:27.830 a business that's, say, under $500 ,000, it's 00:14:27.830 --> 00:14:30.110 still a good time to start building out systems, 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:33.590 like your SOPs, like how the morning huddle works, 00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:39.309 how the equipment's maintained, safety routes, 00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:44.879 how you park, how you unload the trailer. There's 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.139 hundreds of things that can be built into systems. 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:49.860 The biggest thing, though, I think, is building 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:53.320 out your workflow. So what happens from initial 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:56.980 phone call to warranty work or to the end of 00:14:56.980 --> 00:15:00.980 the first year of service, depending on irrigation 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:03.159 companies, maintenance, construction, whatever 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.860 you're doing. But I think really building out 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:07.740 that workflow with all the things that happen, 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:09.740 like when the callback is, what do they get when 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:11.940 you call back? Do you have a welcome package? 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:15.320 Who does the estimating? Who are they responsible 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.419 to? Because when you build out that workflow, 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.440 you'll see that there's like, I know our workflow 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:23.740 at Muskoka Landscapes has 120 steps. And years 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:27.200 ago, there was me and another person on it, you 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:28.840 know, because you're doing a little bit of everything, 00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:30.879 especially when you're a smaller company. But 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:33.019 as your company grows, it's so much easier than 00:15:33.019 --> 00:15:36.519 to take people's names and add them to take things 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.120 off the list and create some accountability for 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:45.269 them and take it off your plate. But I think 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:48.090 under half a million, it's still good. And again, 00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:52.409 build out two at a time. Get the team to use 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.090 them, walk them through it, get them to help 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:55.690 you build it. That's one of the biggest things 00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:57.950 with implementing. If you have your team help 00:15:57.950 --> 00:16:03.269 you build out an SOP for them, they generally 00:16:03.269 --> 00:16:06.929 have much better buy -in. And then as you get 00:16:06.929 --> 00:16:08.750 bigger, I think it just becomes different things. 00:16:08.929 --> 00:16:10.889 Once you crack the million dollar mark, you need 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:13.870 different people. You may need an ops person. 00:16:14.149 --> 00:16:18.169 You may need a sales manager. You may need a 00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:21.309 full -time person in accounting, depending on 00:16:21.309 --> 00:16:23.850 how you're set up. So I think as it progresses, 00:16:23.990 --> 00:16:25.669 and then once you hit the 3 million mark, you 00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:28.669 kind of need all the people at some capacity 00:16:28.669 --> 00:16:30.549 that you need to run a $10 million business. 00:16:30.710 --> 00:16:33.049 They just might not be doing it all the time. 00:16:33.629 --> 00:16:37.490 Often you grow people where they're still working 00:16:37.490 --> 00:16:40.490 in the field a little bit, but also have another 00:16:40.490 --> 00:16:44.889 role. And the thing I think to watch for with 00:16:44.889 --> 00:16:48.769 that, especially at the smaller scales, is don't 00:16:48.769 --> 00:16:52.210 move people that you have into positions, because 00:16:52.210 --> 00:16:54.570 they've been with you for a while, if they're 00:16:54.570 --> 00:16:57.690 not skilled to do that position. I think a lot 00:16:57.690 --> 00:16:59.970 of us make that mistake. We put people into roles 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:01.750 because they've been with us for a long time, 00:17:02.090 --> 00:17:03.789 where they're not really the right fit person, 00:17:03.809 --> 00:17:06.589 but we're trying to create more reason for them 00:17:06.589 --> 00:17:11.009 to stay, which I've had success with as well. 00:17:11.349 --> 00:17:14.210 but I've also had problems with it so I think 00:17:14.210 --> 00:17:16.750 but it's a common mistake in the industry and 00:17:16.750 --> 00:17:19.829 then you find out as you scale that person really 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:22.009 doesn't have the skills to do what you need them 00:17:22.009 --> 00:17:24.490 to do and then you know you're in a bit of a 00:17:24.490 --> 00:17:27.289 pickle. I'm glad you mentioned that because I 00:17:27.289 --> 00:17:32.009 was going to ask you when a business gets to 00:17:32.009 --> 00:17:35.390 the place where they realize they can't do it 00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:39.210 all by themselves and they need to hire someone 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:45.640 What is the best position to hire first, office 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:52.519 help, a manager, more field technicians? What 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.160 do you think we should hire first when we get 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.099 to that point where we're ready to scale? I think 00:18:00.099 --> 00:18:05.900 it's two things. One is hire somebody that's 00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.960 better at you than your weakest point. Like whatever 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.670 you're weak at. hire somebody to do that. That's 00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:16.990 good at it. Um, yeah, I think, I think that's 00:18:16.990 --> 00:18:20.769 a big key. The other, the other thing is hire 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:22.450 somebody that can really take things off your 00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:26.750 plate. You know, often we get worried, you know, 00:18:26.789 --> 00:18:28.430 or we make the mistake. And I've made this mistake 00:18:28.430 --> 00:18:31.289 many times to you hire somebody to do a role. 00:18:31.509 --> 00:18:32.950 They're not really doing the role. So you're 00:18:32.950 --> 00:18:35.150 still getting dragged back in, you know, so you 00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:38.029 got to make sure you hire well to pay, pay what 00:18:38.029 --> 00:18:43.390 they're worth. And often we get into this spot 00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:46.690 where we think, well, if I just had another mower 00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:50.130 or I just had another excavator, people can get 00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:52.710 their head around that. They have a hard time 00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:54.670 going, I got to pay that guy 70 grand a year 00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:56.890 or 100 grand a year or whatever the number is 00:18:56.890 --> 00:18:59.769 for things I'm already doing, but not realizing 00:18:59.769 --> 00:19:02.430 that person may not do it the same way as you 00:19:02.430 --> 00:19:05.399 do. They're likely going to do it better. And 00:19:05.399 --> 00:19:08.000 like the increase in your enterprise value by 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.619 having them is dramatic. Cause now you're able 00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:12.420 to focus on all these other things that you now 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.640 have time for. Like you, you start getting people 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.880 that come in and take 30 or 35 of your hours 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:21.539 off of what you were doing. Man, you can, you 00:19:21.539 --> 00:19:23.859 could really move the needle, right? And I think 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:25.940 that that would be the other comment is like, 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:28.700 who could move the needle the most first, whether 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:34.380 that's an accountant, maybe a CFO, opt person. 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.299 could be a salesperson. I think whoever can move 00:19:38.299 --> 00:19:40.380 the needle the most, and I would say wherever 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:42.839 you think you're weakest, that's the person you 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.640 need first. Because for certain companies, it's 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.000 different. If you're somebody who really loves 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.059 the sales and accounting portion, and you're 00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:54.279 good at it, you may want to hire an ops manager. 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:57.140 You may want to hire somebody to do something 00:19:57.140 --> 00:19:59.299 that you not necessarily don't like to do, but 00:19:59.299 --> 00:20:01.279 don't feel you're really passionate or good at. 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.460 and fill that gap with somebody who's strong. 00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:10.480 And as the business owner, I need to determine 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:14.559 what are the things that only I can do? Right. 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.200 And what are the things that I can delegate? 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.519 And that could determine what kind of hire you 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.339 hire to begin with when you go to scale your 00:20:25.339 --> 00:20:30.579 business. And when you begin to build that team, 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:36.779 you start buying back your time. And it frees 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:41.119 you to do what only you can do and to work on 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.880 your business and not in your business. And to 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.859 be able to go to those birthday parties. When 00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:53.059 I first started, I had no help. I was missing 00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:56.900 my kids' birthday parties. I was missing family 00:20:56.900 --> 00:21:02.970 cookouts, reunions. Made up my mind one day when 00:21:02.970 --> 00:21:07.049 my wife said, everyone ask about you, where you 00:21:07.049 --> 00:21:12.289 were. And I made up my mind, I'm tired of building 00:21:12.289 --> 00:21:16.690 and working so hard to build this business that 00:21:16.690 --> 00:21:21.390 I'm failing to build a life. And my wife and 00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:26.549 I have been married now for 36 years. And we 00:21:26.549 --> 00:21:31.329 have two successful grandchildren. that are great 00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:36.329 productive citizens in our community. But I had 00:21:36.329 --> 00:21:38.869 to realize there's some things that only I can 00:21:38.869 --> 00:21:41.970 do and there's a whole lot of things I can delegate. 00:21:42.509 --> 00:21:46.869 And at this point I need to hire someone. And 00:21:46.869 --> 00:21:50.549 I think if people will start thinking about building 00:21:50.549 --> 00:21:54.730 a life instead of just building a business, it 00:21:54.730 --> 00:21:57.309 can direct them in the direction that they should 00:21:57.309 --> 00:22:05.069 go for their business. So when you go to set 00:22:05.069 --> 00:22:09.529 up your business, what would be the first system 00:22:09.529 --> 00:22:14.470 that you would recommend to implement in order 00:22:14.470 --> 00:22:21.190 to promote growth? I would probably start with 00:22:21.190 --> 00:22:25.009 SOPs because SOPs really give a clear description 00:22:25.009 --> 00:22:27.470 of how everything gets done within the business. 00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:31.059 So as you hire people, Sometimes you need to 00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:34.319 modify the SOPs based on their skill set or their 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.180 week in an area. You might have to make an adjustment. 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.099 But I think building out those systems is really 00:22:39.099 --> 00:22:41.299 the key. And then that workflow is the biggest 00:22:41.299 --> 00:22:43.960 one because if you have a, if you build a, and 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:45.960 it takes time, you know, you need a half a day 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.279 probably to really sit back and think about like 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.019 all the little things and handoffs that happen 00:22:51.019 --> 00:22:54.339 from an initial call to the site meeting. Who 00:22:54.339 --> 00:22:57.000 sets that up? How quickly do they get an estimate 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.769 back? Is the estimate presented? There is a contract, 00:23:01.849 --> 00:23:05.470 there's a deposit. There's a lot of things that 00:23:05.470 --> 00:23:07.349 happen in that workflow. And the sooner you build 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:09.990 that and follow it, it makes it so much easier 00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:13.269 to add people into it. And that workflow is gonna 00:23:13.269 --> 00:23:15.029 change as you grow as well. There's gonna be 00:23:15.029 --> 00:23:16.990 new people, there's gonna be new systems that 00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:21.250 you need to add. It might be a sales to ops handoff. 00:23:21.630 --> 00:23:23.690 There's lots of different things that'll change. 00:23:24.390 --> 00:23:29.150 But to your point too about time, Yeah, like 00:23:29.150 --> 00:23:32.109 you want to be careful you're not it's a cliche 00:23:32.109 --> 00:23:36.349 I guess but you know Don't be so focused on building 00:23:36.349 --> 00:23:39.910 a home that nobody wants to live in True, you 00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:42.950 know, it's a mistake. We all make I did the same 00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:44.930 thing I'm making up for it now with my girls, 00:23:44.930 --> 00:23:49.009 but the first seven eight years And keep in mind 00:23:49.009 --> 00:23:51.490 at that time my wife worked in the business for 00:23:51.490 --> 00:23:54.410 the first five or six years as well so there 00:23:54.410 --> 00:23:57.359 was a lot of like after -dinner work and gone 00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:59.880 for the weekends, not for the weekends, but on 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:02.720 the weekend for estimating or meeting clients. 00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.140 And I missed a lot of soccer games and a lot 00:24:05.140 --> 00:24:09.660 of swim practices. And again, I'm making up for 00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:12.359 it now with travel with them, which is awesome. 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:15.359 But yeah, it's an easy trap to fall in. And I 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.259 would also say just kind of in the same light 00:24:18.259 --> 00:24:22.180 that probably the hardest part as a young business 00:24:22.180 --> 00:24:25.619 is the flip from being somebody, the owner is 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.920 in the field. to not being in the field. That's 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.880 probably the biggest hurdle for most people because 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.299 they know they're the most productive. They know 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:36.319 they're the one that keeps the pace the best. 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:40.740 So transitioning from somebody else doing that 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.220 role and you moving into more of a management 00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:48.420 or sales or accounting role is difficult. It's 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:51.660 probably the hardest leap I would say. When you 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:54.599 start getting into the, again, depending on your 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.910 business, but if you're over a million and in 00:24:56.910 --> 00:25:01.329 maintenance, for instance. Once you're over that, 00:25:01.470 --> 00:25:03.990 you know, as you grow, okay, when I hit this 00:25:03.990 --> 00:25:05.630 number, I need this person. When I hit this number, 00:25:05.650 --> 00:25:07.890 I hit this person. And it's the same with construction. 00:25:08.029 --> 00:25:10.329 Like, once you get to the $3 million mark, you're 00:25:10.329 --> 00:25:13.410 kind of capped out as an owner or operator. You 00:25:13.410 --> 00:25:16.430 know, like you need to add people. So I think 00:25:16.430 --> 00:25:18.490 the clues are a little more obvious as you grow, 00:25:18.509 --> 00:25:21.750 but that jump, and I mean, when you look at how 00:25:21.750 --> 00:25:24.220 many businesses are in North America, and the 00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:27.200 percentage of them that do less than half a million 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:31.920 a year, that is like 90 % of our industry, 85, 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:37.799 90%. Again, I think that's because that transition 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.500 is so hard to leave the field or leave the team 00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.180 and really be relying on somebody else to manage 00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:48.019 the work. As a young business, that's what you 00:25:48.019 --> 00:25:49.640 want. You want to work on replacing yourself. 00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:51.480 You want to work on replacing yourself all the 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:55.140 way through. But I think that's one of the tougher 00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:59.299 hurdles for most. I was reading a book by Dr. 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:04.140 John Maxwell. And in this book on leadership, 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.339 he said, you should be training your replacement 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:13.599 right now. If you want to be an effective leader, 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.079 start training your replacement. And that has 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.700 always stuck to me since I read that. It's been 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:26.039 years ago. Right. And I think I started investing 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:31.319 in my employees. You know, we have boot day. 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:33.539 I'll take them all out and buy them a new pair 00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:38.539 of boots. Perfect. We fist bump every morning 00:26:38.539 --> 00:26:43.799 and have contact. Let them know, you know, I 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:47.359 care about you. I'm concerned about you. And 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.380 I have found that when you do those things and 00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:54.500 you invest in your employees, They in return 00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:58.319 are committed and sold out to help you bring 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.400 your vision to fruition and Bring your goals 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.380 to reality When you invest in them they buy into 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:11.180 you Definitely and they start feeling like you 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:14.460 know, I work for Professional lawn maintenance 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:17.880 or I work for Kevin Scott. I you know, I work 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.920 for a legitimate business and they start giving 00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:26.220 you 100 % when you invest in them. Let's take 00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:29.000 just a short break and let's hear a word from 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.859 my show sponsor. Tired of chasing payments and 00:27:32.859 --> 00:27:36.700 losing track of jobs? 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Check out Earthapro at Earthapro .com and 00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:13.779 sign up with the Lawn Hustle 11 for a $50 Amazon 00:28:13.779 --> 00:28:19.480 card, a 10 % discount, and specialized onboarding. 00:28:20.180 --> 00:28:23.240 We've been talking about scaling and growing 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:28.980 a business and I feel like I have one of the 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:32.779 authoritarian voices on this subject on my show 00:28:32.779 --> 00:28:38.910 today. And I want to ask you, should owners focus 00:28:38.910 --> 00:28:44.630 on profit or growth first? I mean, they kind 00:28:44.630 --> 00:28:46.890 of go hand in hand because you need the funds, 00:28:47.529 --> 00:28:49.190 right? You need the funds to grow or you need 00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:51.869 the capital to grow one or the other. And what 00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.569 we were talking about before the break there, 00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:56.950 too, with the team, I think that is probably 00:28:56.950 --> 00:28:59.410 the most dramatic change we've had in our business. 00:28:59.410 --> 00:29:01.569 This is probably six or seven years ago where 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:05.660 We were so I think I was so I wasn't the leader 00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:09.380 I Am today seven or eight years ago, and I was 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:15.539 a bit naive very naive But we used to be profit 00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:20.180 customers team now. It's team customers profit 00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:24.099 and when we flip that and really started making 00:29:24.099 --> 00:29:26.400 our focus on our team and trying to drive up 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.720 wages and pension plan and benefit packages and 00:29:30.829 --> 00:29:34.470 I mean, we have so much less turnover, like very 00:29:34.470 --> 00:29:36.789 little. Like this year, we have everybody back 00:29:36.789 --> 00:29:38.869 from last year and we're adding three people. 00:29:41.130 --> 00:29:44.269 And culture is so big. And that's just when you 00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:47.329 were talking about that, Andy, that's a hard 00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:50.329 thing too as you grow, right? The culture is 00:29:50.329 --> 00:29:52.029 much easier when you're a group, especially if 00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:54.549 you're a group that you're still... working with 00:29:54.549 --> 00:29:56.890 the team. You know, it's a lot easier to have 00:29:56.890 --> 00:29:58.950 good conversations. You kind of all really know 00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:00.490 each other well because at break you're talking 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:03.430 about what you did last night and your kids or 00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:05.130 your wife or whatever it might be. And often 00:30:05.130 --> 00:30:08.130 you become really good friends. But as you grow, 00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:11.069 it gets trickier. But it's more just about real 00:30:11.069 --> 00:30:14.049 clarity, making sure that everybody's clear on 00:30:14.049 --> 00:30:17.750 what their role entails, what they do when they 00:30:17.750 --> 00:30:19.890 improve, what they can move to when they improve, 00:30:19.970 --> 00:30:21.930 how they improve, like what are the steps they 00:30:21.930 --> 00:30:24.019 need to make. So yeah, I think when you really 00:30:24.019 --> 00:30:28.259 have that clear vision, it makes a dramatic difference 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:30.299 on how everybody feels and how everybody moves. 00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:33.220 And I don't remember the original question now. 00:30:36.819 --> 00:30:41.039 What you said was great. Okay, perfect. It was 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:46.819 growth versus profit. Yeah. I think they go together. 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:50.339 In that same book I was telling you about by 00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:54.420 Dr. Maxwell. He made another, I think it's a 00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:58.579 profound statement. If you think you're a leader 00:30:58.579 --> 00:31:02.619 and no one's following you, you're just taking 00:31:02.619 --> 00:31:10.299 a walk. So I want to be a leader in our industry 00:31:10.299 --> 00:31:15.319 where I develop people that follow me because 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:19.059 I have a vision, because I have set my goals. 00:31:19.950 --> 00:31:23.890 their smart goals, their reachable goals, their 00:31:23.890 --> 00:31:28.230 trackable goals. And with all of that being said, 00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:37.569 what KPI or what key performance indicator should 00:31:37.569 --> 00:31:43.029 a business try to develop first in order to help 00:31:43.029 --> 00:31:47.769 them scale? Would it be, do I need to keep a 00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:53.329 laser focus on my Revenue growth, my revenue 00:31:53.329 --> 00:31:58.549 per client, my profit margin. And I'll stop right 00:31:58.549 --> 00:32:01.250 there and I am just amazed at how many people 00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:06.250 don't know what their profit margin is. They 00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:08.569 know their revenue and they'll brag about their 00:32:08.569 --> 00:32:13.730 revenue. Oh, I done two million last year. How 00:32:13.730 --> 00:32:17.549 much profit did you make? That's the key to whether 00:32:17.549 --> 00:32:20.849 you're successful. or whether you're failing, 00:32:21.450 --> 00:32:26.970 even though you brought in two million or customer 00:32:26.970 --> 00:32:30.549 or client retention rate. Are you maintaining 00:32:30.549 --> 00:32:34.329 your customers or are you having to get new customers 00:32:34.329 --> 00:32:38.670 every season just to survive? So what would you 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:42.930 think would be a key performance indicator that 00:32:42.930 --> 00:32:46.430 people need to really start focusing on? Yeah, 00:32:46.430 --> 00:32:48.690 I'll give you two. And the first one isn't really 00:32:48.910 --> 00:32:51.349 a key performance indicator, but it's standards. 00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:55.450 You gotta set the standards for the people to 00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:57.130 follow the systems, right? You want people to 00:32:57.130 --> 00:32:59.250 do what you would do if you were there. So I 00:32:59.250 --> 00:33:00.890 think that's something that a lot of people don't 00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:03.789 focus enough energy on. Setting standards are 00:33:03.789 --> 00:33:07.930 just as important as SOPs. But when it comes 00:33:07.930 --> 00:33:10.990 to finance, we really focus hard on our labor 00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:14.730 variance. So we're looking at actual, or sorry, 00:33:15.089 --> 00:33:19.359 estimated versus actual weekly. And that's, we 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.559 know we want to hit a certain revenue per hour. 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:24.980 And that's how we're profitable. And when we 00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:27.440 dip down, we need to revisit it. When we're going 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.079 up, we know things are going well. And you know, 00:33:30.099 --> 00:33:32.059 you want to really take a lot of that information 00:33:32.059 --> 00:33:36.480 and be able to assess it to see like, okay, well, 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.519 why are we up so high right now? Like what is 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.880 it the right, is it the type of job? Is it the 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:42.599 area we're working? Is it the crew that's on 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:46.759 that job? So revenue per hour I think is the 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.940 biggest indicator because often your budget is 00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:53.160 set on that like if you if you look at your budget 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.740 versus hours you predict to work that's going 00:33:56.740 --> 00:33:58.380 to be your revenue per hour should be revenue 00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:00.559 per hour assuming you work all those hours now 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:03.279 it's a question of how profitable are those hours. 00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.160 So I think there's a lot of great systems to 00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:09.940 to do that we use LMN at Muskoka Landscapers 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:12.780 so the guys can see any time they want they can 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:16.369 look and go I've used 200 of a thousand hours 00:34:16.369 --> 00:34:18.369 to do this patio or whatever the number might 00:34:18.369 --> 00:34:21.349 be. And they get a pretty good sense of where 00:34:21.349 --> 00:34:23.190 they're at. And then we're checking it weekly 00:34:23.190 --> 00:34:26.070 as well. But I think that's probably the, if 00:34:26.070 --> 00:34:27.670 you're only gonna do one, that's the one I would 00:34:27.670 --> 00:34:31.630 do is labor variance. What marketing strategy 00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:36.690 do you use? We, I mean, we're in a different 00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:42.610 area. We are in a lakefront cottage residential. 00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:48.650 area with a lot of high net worth owners. So 00:34:48.650 --> 00:34:54.289 we only do like 19 to 20 projects a year. But 00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:59.150 our average is probably about 600 ,000. So they're 00:34:59.150 --> 00:35:01.590 big projects. So it's a little bit unique and 00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:04.289 we have a lot of referrals. We've built relationships 00:35:04.289 --> 00:35:06.309 over the years with builders and architects and 00:35:06.309 --> 00:35:08.050 landscape architects. And that's really where 00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:10.590 most of our funnel comes from and through design 00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:15.769 as well. But marketing, depending on what you're 00:35:15.769 --> 00:35:17.650 doing, maintenance I always find is a little 00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:20.429 bit tough. But again, it depends on the type 00:35:20.429 --> 00:35:23.150 of maintenance you're doing. If I was a commercial 00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:25.389 maintenance person, I'd be trying to make as 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:27.849 many relationships as I could with property managers 00:35:27.849 --> 00:35:31.190 that look after commercial sites, school boards, 00:35:32.449 --> 00:35:35.809 any big industrial areas, people with a lot of 00:35:35.809 --> 00:35:41.050 grass. But as far as marketing goes, I think 00:35:41.050 --> 00:35:43.980 having a really great... website that's simple, 00:35:44.059 --> 00:35:46.440 but really shows what your right fit work is, 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:51.179 is important. You know, your branding is obviously 00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:55.840 really important. Your welcome package, like 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.000 sending something to the customer as soon as 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.039 you get a new call that shows what you do. And 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.980 if you're in construction, like a little program 00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:04.719 checklist, like what are you looking for? I want 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.099 a pool and a cabana and whatever it might be. 00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:09.300 So you're kind of already vetting them a little 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:10.900 bit as well. You kind of know what they're looking 00:36:10.900 --> 00:36:15.710 for. But this The speed of that going out and 00:36:15.710 --> 00:36:18.070 setting up that initial call is very important, 00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:20.349 just like estimating the turnaround time. Like 00:36:20.349 --> 00:36:22.889 your odds of getting a job because you're the 00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:26.090 first estimate in, it's like 30 or 40 % higher 00:36:26.090 --> 00:36:29.170 than if you're the last person in, even if you're 00:36:29.170 --> 00:36:31.510 cheaper. It's not always about the cheapest price. 00:36:33.090 --> 00:36:35.909 But then, I mean, I don't do a lot of Google 00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:38.679 and meta ads. but I work with people that do. 00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:41.619 I know that I've got one client that spends about 00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:45.039 six grand a month on Google ads, and he easily 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.860 gets more work than that. It brings the right 00:36:47.860 --> 00:36:51.179 leads. It is expensive. I've got another person 00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:56.199 that spends 12 grand a month. So those types 00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:58.460 of systems definitely work, but I think at the 00:36:58.460 --> 00:37:02.260 core of it, it's who do people think you are? 00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:04.679 What's the message that you're giving people? 00:37:05.210 --> 00:37:08.210 because that's really what they believe. I'm 00:37:08.210 --> 00:37:11.190 a massive believer in referral work. I think 00:37:11.190 --> 00:37:14.269 if you build out a really good customer journey, 00:37:14.710 --> 00:37:18.070 especially when you talk about systems like stepping 00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:19.969 back and looking at it from how the customer 00:37:19.969 --> 00:37:22.210 is gonna see your company through a project or 00:37:22.210 --> 00:37:25.429 through a maintenance season, and what you want 00:37:25.429 --> 00:37:27.889 them to feel like when you're done. If you can 00:37:27.889 --> 00:37:29.550 do that, they're gonna rave about you all the 00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:33.090 time. And if it's an ongoing like annual reoccurring 00:37:33.090 --> 00:37:38.400 thing for you, It's gravy, like it's gravy to 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.320 make sure those relationships stay strong, because 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.639 that is easy. When you get a referral, it's yours 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.099 to lose. It's not going to matter what your price 00:37:46.099 --> 00:37:48.900 is. If they're a friend, and I did a presentation 00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:52.000 not too long ago that I used this study, most 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.659 couples have four to seven other couple friends 00:37:55.659 --> 00:37:59.019 that they're close with and they hang out with. 00:37:59.710 --> 00:38:01.889 and they're in their backyards together and they're 00:38:01.889 --> 00:38:03.510 using their outdoor kitchen or sitting by the 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:06.269 pool with the kids or whatever it is. But when 00:38:06.269 --> 00:38:10.030 you build these super happy customers, they tell 00:38:10.030 --> 00:38:12.409 everybody that comes to their house who it is, 00:38:12.630 --> 00:38:14.769 what they've done, how they did it, how great 00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:19.269 they were to work with. And then even if you 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:21.650 do it on the five model, which was what the presentation 00:38:21.650 --> 00:38:25.190 was about, they tell five people. The study showed 00:38:25.190 --> 00:38:27.130 that it goes out about four rounds. It works 00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:31.119 out to 1 ,250 people. from one really happy customer. 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:33.960 They're gonna spread the word. It works the other 00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:37.360 way too, which is also important to remember, 00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:40.460 depending on logistically where you are. Word 00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:43.079 travels fast and bad news usually travels faster. 00:38:45.260 --> 00:38:48.579 But yeah, outside of that, I think it's just 00:38:48.579 --> 00:38:52.119 really about showing people who you are. That 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:56.219 word of mouth is sometimes the best form of advertisement. 00:38:56.780 --> 00:39:03.809 It's incredible. And I wore or I wear shirts 00:39:03.809 --> 00:39:07.230 and hats and has my logo all over it and everything, 00:39:07.409 --> 00:39:11.530 my trucks logoed. And I was in the post office 00:39:11.530 --> 00:39:15.710 waiting to get some stamps. And a little lady 00:39:15.710 --> 00:39:18.710 tapped me on the shoulder. When I turned around, 00:39:18.769 --> 00:39:22.789 it was a little elderly lady. She said, do you 00:39:22.789 --> 00:39:25.750 mow anybody's yard? I said, as long as they pay 00:39:25.750 --> 00:39:29.710 me. And I was just making a joke with her. She 00:39:29.710 --> 00:39:31.389 said, well, I want you to give me an estimate. 00:39:32.030 --> 00:39:35.630 I said, sure. So when I left the post office, 00:39:35.690 --> 00:39:40.010 I met her at her house, gave her the quote. She 00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:43.650 accepted. And I went the next week to start my 00:39:43.650 --> 00:39:47.809 winter yard. Two weeks later, the neighbor that 00:39:47.809 --> 00:39:51.769 lives next door walked over and said, would you 00:39:51.769 --> 00:39:54.989 give me an estimate? She said, she has been talking 00:39:54.989 --> 00:39:58.909 to me about you. Says you do a great job and 00:39:58.909 --> 00:40:02.269 you're dependable. You're trustworthy and you 00:40:02.269 --> 00:40:07.250 show up. I gave her the estimate. I got her job. 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:11.389 The next week the man across the street walked 00:40:11.389 --> 00:40:16.750 over. Same story. Asked for an estimate. I gave 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:20.650 him an estimate. Got his job. Because I showed 00:40:20.650 --> 00:40:24.409 up and I done the job the best that I could. 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:29.579 That one stop ended up being three stops on the 00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:33.440 same street. And that tightened up my route density 00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:37.280 for that day's schedule. Less windshield time 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:41.039 because I'm not a trucker. I don't get paid to 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:45.159 look out a window. I get paid to cut grass. And 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.480 when I cut that grass, I can make that cash. 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:53.179 So, um... Love it. You know... And I got one 00:40:53.179 --> 00:40:57.400 in Muncie, same story. I started mowing my aunt's 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:03.039 yard. Now I have seven in a row on that street. 00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:07.199 So I pull up about halfway between the seven, 00:41:07.739 --> 00:41:12.099 drop the gate one time, mow all seven in about 00:41:12.099 --> 00:41:15.820 an hour and 25 minutes and make almost $500. 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:21.440 Perfect. You don't need too many of those. No. 00:41:21.929 --> 00:41:25.250 And then I go around and mow an eye doctor, or 00:41:25.250 --> 00:41:28.070 I'm sorry, a hearing aid doctor, the eye doctors 00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:34.409 in Newcastle. I mow a hearing aid office and 00:41:34.409 --> 00:41:37.909 an insurance office. It takes me about 10 minutes 00:41:37.909 --> 00:41:40.769 to mow both of them because they're on a busy 00:41:40.769 --> 00:41:43.730 street, the yards aren't very big. But because 00:41:43.730 --> 00:41:47.210 I have a minimum, I'm not dropping my gate for 00:41:47.210 --> 00:41:52.340 less than 65. I can make 130 bucks in 10 minutes. 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.760 But it's that word of mouth. I would have never 00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:01.019 got all of those jobs if someone wasn't happy 00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:05.460 with the job that I got. And they start talking. 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.639 And you're exactly right. Sometimes that word 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.340 of mouth is the best form of advertisement. Often 00:42:13.340 --> 00:42:15.639 when you get an area like that, too, you can 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.110 actually do it for less. Yes. You know, when 00:42:18.110 --> 00:42:21.050 you start adding that many seven, 10 people on 00:42:21.050 --> 00:42:23.670 the same street, you know, you can make it more 00:42:23.670 --> 00:42:25.269 affordable for them a little bit as well and 00:42:25.269 --> 00:42:27.570 just lock in, especially if you're doing quality 00:42:27.570 --> 00:42:32.210 work, people love it. Well, because my gas in 00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:35.050 the truck has decreased. I mean, I'm still using 00:42:35.050 --> 00:42:38.409 the same amount of gas to mow all seven of them, 00:42:38.409 --> 00:42:41.510 but I'm not traveling back and forth. I'm not 00:42:41.510 --> 00:42:45.329 paying helpers to ride in the truck. I'm not. 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.079 you know running from here and there trying to 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:51.480 make the same amount of money I'm right there 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:56.260 one stop most seven yards almost 500 bucks into 00:42:56.260 --> 00:43:00.320 the business and we leave very happy because 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.000 we made a lot of profit on those seven jobs I'm 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:14.079 sure so um let me ask you this what is one system 00:43:16.450 --> 00:43:20.909 that our listeners should implement right now 00:43:20.909 --> 00:43:25.289 if they want to grow and scale? Is it a CRM? 00:43:26.369 --> 00:43:33.670 Is it route density? Is it some kind of client 00:43:33.670 --> 00:43:36.710 retention program that they have? What would 00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:40.110 be some good advice for our listeners that they 00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:44.150 can put into action right now to help them grow? 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.619 I think there's a lot of things. I would say 00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:53.539 number one, something that tells you what your 00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:57.500 revenue per hour is. A system, a software, something 00:43:57.500 --> 00:44:00.559 that you can look at it whenever you want and 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.980 see, yes, we're doing it on time or for less 00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:06.480 time, or we're running over on everything. That 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:08.320 gives you all the information you need to make 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.519 better decisions and know if you need to adjust 00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.000 your rates or if you've got a slack crew or whatever. 00:44:13.420 --> 00:44:16.929 I think that's probably the biggest ones. a company 00:44:16.929 --> 00:44:20.989 that has scale or has, you know, maybe they have 00:44:20.989 --> 00:44:23.130 three or four crews running around or they're 00:44:23.130 --> 00:44:26.929 doing construction. We use an email tool that's 00:44:26.929 --> 00:44:29.210 just, it's free. It's called the five. It used 00:44:29.210 --> 00:44:30.570 to be called the four at three. It was something 00:44:30.570 --> 00:44:33.030 element came out with years ago and we've kind 00:44:33.030 --> 00:44:36.650 of adopted it into the five at three, but it 00:44:36.650 --> 00:44:39.829 asks every crew at three o 'clock five questions. 00:44:40.570 --> 00:44:42.989 What did you get done today? What are you doing 00:44:42.989 --> 00:44:46.619 tomorrow? What's slowing you down? What do you 00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:50.119 need from me, meaning the management? And so 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:51.699 we put sub trades on ours because we deal with 00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:53.760 a lot of sub trades. So it's more just to get 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.219 them thinking about what they're doing, what 00:44:56.219 --> 00:44:58.679 they need, what they need from us. Is anything 00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:02.840 slowing them down? But that tool, if you have 00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.900 multiple crews, gives you a great sense of where 00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:08.000 everybody's at all the time. And they also put 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.159 four or five pictures in there. So yeah, I think 00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:15.179 there's lots of little tools that make improvements 00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:18.519 really quickly. You just got to use them. And 00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.880 there's so many great apps and software out there 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.179 too that can tell you everything you want to 00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:26.960 know. Well, I want to be mindful of your time. 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:29.719 I know you're busy. I appreciate you coming on 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:34.400 the show. We're right at our 45 minute time frame. 00:45:35.260 --> 00:45:39.300 So let me try to wrap this up with this. Finish 00:45:39.300 --> 00:45:47.780 this sentence. If I want to scale I must Get 00:45:47.780 --> 00:45:53.300 out of my own way Very good many many people 00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:56.440 are just like the owners the bottleneck You know 00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:58.800 it especially as companies do start to scale 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:01.920 because the you know when you're and I went I 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.880 went through this for years, too You were the 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.219 person doing everything when you started Then 00:46:08.219 --> 00:46:09.860 you had somebody helping you a little bit and 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:11.360 then you had somebody else help. Now you had 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:14.320 a couple extra crew. So as that grows, you tend 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.079 to want to micromanage or you're hearing conversations. 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:19.539 I still have to stop myself from doing it. And 00:46:19.539 --> 00:46:22.260 I have great managers, but often I'll be hearing 00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:24.280 a conversation that's happening in the office 00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:26.699 and I'll still be putting my two cents in and 00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:28.679 slowing down that process. And they were likely 00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:32.099 going to come up with the same solution. I was 00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:35.940 just trying to speed it up. So I think, yeah, 00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:39.420 that would be How I would end that is get out 00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:42.780 of your own way. That is so good. Well, Kevin, 00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:46.320 I really do appreciate you taking time out of 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.539 your day to share with our listeners on some 00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:56.199 profitable, tangible information to help them 00:46:56.199 --> 00:47:00.599 scale and grow. I wish I had something like this 00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:04.619 when I first started my business. Something that 00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:09.260 could have guided me. and maybe help me not make 00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:11.800 as many mistakes as I did because I made my fair 00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:17.280 share. But I really appreciate you. I thank you. 00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:21.239 And I wish you nothing but success. And until 00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:26.820 we talk again, keep growing, keep making a profit, 00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:30.400 and keep hustling. Thank you for joining the 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:33.460 Lawn Hustle. Thank you, Andy. It was great to 00:47:33.460 --> 00:47:36.099 meet you. Look forward to doing it again one 00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:39.019 day. Well, I'll tell you, like Tony Rudolph told 00:47:39.019 --> 00:47:43.099 me, when you meet someone, they're friends for 00:47:43.099 --> 00:47:48.920 life. So you're stuck with me now. Sounds good. 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:51.739 All right. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you. 00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:55.239 And have a great week. You as well. Take care. 00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:56.900 OK, bye bye. Bye bye.