Welcome back to the Lawn Hustle podcast. The
podcast that is built for lawn care pros, landscapers,
and green industry entrepreneurs who are tired
of guessing and ready to grow with purpose. I
am your host, Andy Wilson, bringing 16 years
of experience in the real world. No fluff, no
hype. just proven strategies, honest conversation,
and lessons learned from the field and the business
side of the hustle. Tonight, we have Joey Koberling,
the landscaping bookkeeper with us. This is our
second show that we have done. Joey, welcome
back to the Lawn Hustle. Thank you for joining.
Hey, thanks, Andy. Honor to be here. Well, since
we were at Equip Expo, I believe you have launched
two new endeavors. The lawn care launch and the
21 day lawn care hustlers boot camp. Yeah, yeah,
the. The hustlers bootcamp is actually a kind
of an intro into our program. So it's all under
lawn care launch. But yeah, it's a it's made
for building foundations for companies because
I work with a lot of companies or have in the
past where the foundation wasn't set and you
have to fix a lot of stuff. So Megan and I were
like, well, what if we built something with you
met Kevin Salters and our other person, Stephanie,
something that prevents a lot of these problems
and nips it in the bud when companies are small.
So it's it's It's built to set up companies for
success, really, and not have to plug holes later
down the road. It's always better to start off
with some good habits. Yeah, yeah, it's... Than
to have to get rid of some bad habits. Yeah,
right. A lot of it's from experience, honestly.
Like, I've messed up a lot of stuff and I always
have to go back and fix it. I'm like, well, if
I just had some guidance in the beginning, I
would never have to do this. Well, why don't
you tell our listeners? Little more about the
boot camp. Okay how someone can join What the
fee is what they get When they purchase there
the boot camp Tell us about it. Okay. Yeah, so
it's 21 days It has four live events. All of
the owners of lawn care launch will be there
So myself Megan Stephanie who runs marketing
and then Kevin who runs the coaching side We're
all there. Each week we check in with you. You're
with the group. We usually cap it at about 30
people. We touch everything from getting your
banking separated from your personal, you know,
finding the right type of bank, getting your
social media accounts set up, learning how marketing
works. We do custom door hangers for the people
that join. We do a live SOP workshop with Kevin
Salters. Kevin's made more SOPs than anybody
I know, so he runs that. Megan and I run a little
bit of the man hour rate. So we teach companies
how to set their man hour rate from the beginning
so you're not having to backtrack and readjust
all your rates drastically five years in or whatever.
And then we do a lot of videos inside of there.
on how to read a profit and loss, how to read
a cashflow statement balance sheet, all that
stuff. We have a tax Q &A inside of it, so you
get to come and meet with our tax expert, Sheila
Chaplin. She answers all your questions inside
of there. It's only $100. It used to be 50. We
bumped it up to 100. simply because we're trying
to market it a little bit more. And we send you
a workbook. So it's a 76 page workbook that you
go through and you write tangibly in it. So you
don't get a lot of information and not know what
to do with it. So it's really jam packed with
a lot of stuff. We have a lot of experts inside
of it to help you in different categories. And
yeah, it's just a little bit of a tidbit which
you get working inside of lawn care launch, which
is basically financial management, marketing,
and mentorship all under one roof for your back
office help. Now is there a boot camp in progress
now? Yeah, we run a monthly so we just finished
our We're taking a month off For February but
starting in March we run them back -to -back.
So we ran one. This will be our fourth one We
normally run them. We'll take a week off and
go we took a month off with this one But yeah
March 2nd is the next one And I can send you
a link for your description if people are interested
in checking that out Yes, please do Would you
say that? the bootcamp is beneficial for people
that has been in for a long time? Or is it geared
more towards those that are just starting? You
know, it really just depends. There are companies
that I've worked with that had really good foundations
with from the beginning. Maybe it's their second
endeavor. Maybe they just have good Maybe they're
just thorough in the beginning. We market it
for companies that are either part -time or let's
say you're under 150 ,000 in revenue. That's
generally what we shoot for. However, I've worked
with companies in the seven figure range that
have done half this stuff, which is pretty wild.
So it really just depends. I mean, companies
are all over the place. We've done a... a lot
of work trying to get it to where it's all pertinent
information for companies under that 150 ,000
mark. But there are companies that have come
through that have done a lot of the stuff already
inside it. But even if you've done seven out
of the eight steps, if you get one step out of
it, I mean, it's only $100 and it's a lot of
peace of mind that you get knowing that you've
set it up correctly and knowing that you're doing
everything right from the beginning. $100 is
not a lot of money. when you look at it as an
investment into yourself and an investment into
your business, I feel like I should be investing
in myself as much as I invest into my business
because it makes me a better man, a better husband,
a better business owner, and a better citizen.
So, you know, I... I don't mind the $100. I think
that's cheap. You want to know my opinion? It's
definitely super cheap. We do it at a break even
cost. We make no money on it because it's a lead
generator for us. Um, and originally our first
class, we did it for free, but then the problem
we ran into with that was people not showing
up. So we want to make sure that people at least
have a vested interest. You know, they got money
on the line, but yeah, I mean, it's jam packed
with value. We had Paul Janison go through it
and, and a couple others, and they said, man,
this is worth several thousand dollars. You know,
we've had feedback like that, but you know, it
costs us, you know, some time, you know, we do
four live events with the four of us and the
cost of the book. But for the most part, I'd
say we'd lose money on it if you put in all the
time spent involved in it. But yeah, it's meant
to be a lead generator for us, really. And we
want to help a lot of people. So if we can send
30 or 40 people through the class a month, that
helps a lot of people. We might lose a little
bit, but then we get conversions inside of that
to join lawn care launch. So it's kind of the
idea of it all. Well, in October, you and I were
at Equip Expo. Was this your first year to attend
Equip? Yeah, it was our first year. We've been
talking about going since 2020. We decided to
do Jason Creel's event instead in Alabama. And
me and Megan wanted to, one, get a little more
experience under our belt working with lawn care
business owners, because we started working with
exclusively lawn care in 2020. And we also have
had two children since then, so it's hard for
us to travel up to Kentucky from Florida. uh
so you know just getting a sitter for the whole
week is uh is kind of challenging for with two
kids so well in 2029 it's going to be in orlando
florida I saw that. Yeah, I think Orlando is
still a good six hours from us. You know, you
think of it being pretty close because it's in
Florida, but we're in the panhandle, man. So
but yeah, I'm excited about that. Honestly, I
know a lot of people complained about it and
it's a little inconvenient, but I think it'll
bring new people into the into the ecosystem.
And yeah, I mean, heck, I'm excited to make four
hours less journey. So and heck, we can probably
take the kids to Disney or something while we're
down there. Bring the kids along. too excited
about the drive, I'll probably fly because I
can be in Louisville from my house in about two
and a half hours. Oh, are you that close? Yeah,
that's nice. So it's just get up a little earlier,
take off and I'm there. How many times have you
been there? I think I've been there for maybe
five times. OK. And I plan on going to Orlando.
I'm just going to. You got to plan it. You got
to save back a little extra money. You're still
taking the same amount of days off. Basically,
if you fly in, if you drive in, it might be a
little more time consuming. We've already purchased
our booth for next time, so we'll have a booth
set up if anybody wants to stop by and see us.
Kevin said that was his favorite part of the
entire year was going up there. It was one of
mine too. Just seeing what the industry is really
all about and everybody being like a big family
there, it was cool. Meeting some faces. I've
met a lot of people there from Jason Krill's
bench that I've done three times now, but I've
met some new faces that maybe I'd talk to on
the phone or something like that. It was cool.
People that listened to the podcast. Yeah. It's
a, it's a one of a kind experience, man. It was
really, really enjoyable being there. It's a
community. Yeah. And it's amazing to me. I can
walk in and there's a lot of guys there that
run bigger businesses, produce more revenue,
but they're so welcoming for you to walk up and
just talk to them. And then I've got guys that
want to come up and talk to me, and I'm a nobody.
So, you know, it's just a community. And that's
one of the things I love about the green industry.
It's just a big community. It's a very, a very
humble community, I would say is probably the
best word to describe it. And, you know, whenever
Megan and I were sitting down in 2018 on figuring
out what type of client we want to serve, we
didn't know who we really wanted to serve. And
inside of the landscaping bookkeeper, that is.
And we went through everything, like lawyers
and all these different types of people. And
we had a lawn care client and he was just the
most humble, nicest guy. And we're like, man,
if we could just multiply clients like this,
this would be the dream business. And let me
tell you what, that's six, seven, eight years
ago now. um and we exclusively work with lawn
care uh that's been my whole experience i don't
we don't have anybody it's like oh not so and
so calling again like all of our clients are
just such a pleasure to work with and i think
it's just uh really what the industry is all
about well how many lawn care clients are you
serving now so uh probably 60 or so i would say
yeah nice at what point do you recommend a business
to hire a bookkeeper? At what point in their
business or their growth or if they're trying
to scale, where should someone consider hiring
outside help? Yeah, so I would recommend, number
one, I think you need to know where you're headed.
So if you have like a vision of growing a big
company, you're probably going to want to bring
a bookkeeper on sooner rather than later. Now,
if you're somebody that's pretty content, you
run a small operation, maybe it's just you. You
don't really plan on growing it. Maybe you got
a helper. I don't even know that you necessarily
need a bookkeeper. It might be something you
want just to keep you organized a little bit
on the back end. But I recommend it for guys
that are serious about delegating that want to
stay informed, make their numbers progressively
better each year. So for those that are growth
oriented, I would probably say, I've had clients
say, man, I wish I brought you on at 50 ,000.
I generally recommend $75 ,000 is what I've seen.
But, you know, it just depends on what your journey
is where you're headed. So, yeah, I'd say growth
-oriented company, $75 ,000. And then it's just
kind of whatever you want to do if you're a solo
operator and don't really plan on growing. So
what I would recommend to our listeners tonight
is for them to just give you a call. Get that
free 15 -minute phone call. And... Let you know
where they're at, what services you have that
can benefit them and maybe make the connection.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the reason we so for
those curious, that's how we do our landscaping
bookkeeper on boards as you schedule a 15 minute
call with us and we see if you're a good fit.
Just we want to make sure that we're serving
you the best we can. And we're a good fit for
what you got going on. So that's the reason we
do a phone call and not just some random form
that you fill out online. And it's made our we
don't get any problem childs in this way. And
we can work with everybody that really respects
us. We respect them. It's kind of a mutual benefits
both parties. So when it comes to bookkeeping,
what is the most common mistake? that you see
lawn care businesses making? I would say they
let stuff, I think a lot of companies let stuff
pile up and they don't take care of it and nip
it in the bud. A lot of times if we have somebody
calling us, it's because they have a problem
that they're starting to run into, five or 600
,000. You got to think of bookkeeping as like
a system and we're all about systems and processes.
So you want to start building systems before
you really need them, before you run into a problem.
The problem is most guys don't know what problems
they're going to run into eventually. But when
you've got several hundred thousands of dollars
moving through your company, it's a lot different
than when you have $50 ,000 moving through your
company. It's kind of like a personal budget.
People think of a personal budget. When you start
running a business and you start delegating tasks
and focusing on profit and have other employees,
You need to be able to already have that system
in place so you don't get backed up with everything.
And we get a lot of panic callers generally around
that $500 ,000, $600 ,000 mark. They don't have
back office help that are really backed up. So
I think it's just wise to listen to those that
have the multi -million dollar companies that
will, you know, most of them will recommend getting
a bookkeeper before you need it rather than later.
You know, you get that old know your numbers
thing that everybody says. Yeah, create systems.
Um, and processes before you need them. Same
with employees. You know, you want to go ahead
and start documenting all your stuff when you're
by yourself in the truck. If you plan on bringing
employees, you want to have that system down.
Same with bookkeeping. We're a system that implements
with you, with your business. So that's, that
would be probably the number one problem I see.
Well, why do so many single operators or small
businesses wait too long to clean up their books?
What is it? That causes them to delay are they
fearful of the unknown or That's the reason why
people wait so long I think in the beginning
you really you pinch pennies Because number one
that's what you've taught is the best way to
grow wealth. It's number two That's what you
have to do in your personal budget In business,
yes, you want to have a budget, but you don't
necessarily need to pinch pennies. You need to
find what the most important task is in your
business and work towards that and delegate other
responsibilities out. So it's a little bit different
than a personal budget. So when you have a solar
operator, the only thing they've ever probably
done is a personal budget or nothing. And so
they're not used to thinking like a business
owner, which is constant delegation, focused
down on brand, on marketing, being known, those
sorts of things, getting your time out there
where you're... really investing in acquiring
customers and creating systems and being the
visionary that your company needs. And so that
involves learning to spend money to make money.
Now, there's a lot of misconceptions with spending
money to make money because there's guys that
are solo operators that spend a lot of money
on the wrong things. And that's when you can
really start getting in over your head. So it's
a skill that you got to learn. But really, it's
all about cash flow and spending money where
it's going to get you in the best position to
buy your time back and make your life easier
and focus where you can live profitably. And
like I said, buy your time back. That's what
it's all about. Right. So that's why we work
so hard. We want to buy back our time. Yeah,
precisely. You know, we want to be able to attend
those birthday parties or those family cookouts
or be able to go out of town for the weekend
and not feel completely guilty. You don't worry
the whole weekend that something's going to happen
because you're not there. So you want to buy
back your time. You want to invest in yourself.
And when you do those things, you're really investing
in your business as well. Yeah. I think for solo
guys, it's well, one of the main problems like
selling bookkeeping services is different from
selling, you know, let's say lawn care services.
Like for bookkeeping, you kind of are selling
a problem that people don't know they have yet.
Or you get the client that I was telling you
about that calls you when everything's kind of
backed up and then you have to go through and
clean up everything. And there's different businesses
for bookkeeping. where you have businesses that
maybe do a lot of that cleanup and work with
like fixing a lot of the debt problems inside
of that. Our company is more, we integrate with
you when you're small and we scale with you.
That's always been our model. It's kind of like
training the guy that's untrained versus the
guy with 20 years of experience in lawn care,
right? Like you'd rather have the guy that's
moldable rather than the guy that's coming in
with 20 years of experience and is trying to
teach you. the owner how to do it their way,
right? So we do the same thing. We onboard clients
that are small and we scale. Like that's always
been our model. It makes it easy, but it's also
hard to sell that to someone that doesn't know
that they need it yet. So we run into that sometimes.
I love that because it's hard to tell somebody
what they need if they think they already know.
So when you get in on that ground or that very
small business, And they grow with you. You know,
that that's just a great concept. I love that.
Absolutely. Let's take a short break in your
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onboarding. EarthaPro, you run the outside work,
we run the office. And we're back with Joey Coberly,
the landscaping bookkeeper. Let me ask you. How
much damage do messy books actually cause when
it comes to tax season? Oh, man. So we actually
don't prepare taxes, but I can tell you of our
experiences with it. I think the tax professional
is going to feel that more than us, to be honest
with you. So we partner with Sheila Chaplin.
I don't know if you've met her. Paul pushes her
on Green Industry Podcast. Yeah, they, uh, she
actually gives discounts to our clients because
we give her the same clean books every season.
So it'll save you money. If you're organizing,
you come in, if they, if you come in with a box
of receipts, that's a lot of, they're going to
charge you more in an hourly rate and you're
going to end up spending a lot more. So, you
know, you can pay during the year to have bookkeeping
done, or you can wait to the year end and have
a lot of cleanup and it's going to cost you a
little bit more. Um, but yeah, that, that would
be my answer to that. What do you, um, in your
bookkeeping services or in the boot camp? Do
you help lawn care businesses plan for seasonal
income swings? Because in the winter, you know,
your income usually will go down unless you plow
a lot of snow. And so how can you help lawn care
businesses plan those seasonal swings and keep
a steady flow of income? Yeah, so your advice
on that. So in landscaping bookkeeper, we don't
do any budgeting. It's more organization. You
get a monthly meeting with a dedicated bookkeeper.
In lawn care launch, that's more so where we
would do stuff like that. Now we have Kevin who's
on the mentorship side, which does, if you're
in our main program, he does bi -weekly coaching
one -on -one. currently for lawn care businesses.
Now we're looking to scale that and so his time's
limited. So what we're starting to integrate
now is workshops. So we're gonna be doing monthly
workshops, budgeting, marketing, year planning,
like we're gonna be throwing everything out there
that's gonna be more group oriented because then
we can start really pushing the gas on stuff.
But for now, yeah, Kevin will do budgeting meetings
with you. He's very good at it. But yeah, looking
to... Look into group. We're trying to build
a group in a community that can all do their
budgeting together. Like, we're trying to build
systems to be able to do things in a group, mainly
because there's not much out there for that.
And it's fun. It's fun to do a lot of that back
office stuff in a group. You know, it's boring
to sit down by yourself and do that. It's very
lonely. We're speaking from experience, too.
But also, it'll allow us to. Like, Kevin's time
is very valuable. So if we can do it in a group
class and build a system around it, I drastically
drop costs for everyone that is, you know, in
the smaller scale. Let's talk about Kevin for
just a minute. He's been in the green industry
for, I think, 40 plus years. So he's someone
that knows a lot about the industry. Yeah. And
he's been there and he's done it. So if there's
anyone... that can help you, it would be Kevin
Salters and Joey Koberley. So if you're listening
to this show and you realize you need help, I
encourage you to reach out to these guys. Make
that $100 investment. If it goes up to $300,
it's worth it or more. So, you know, make that
investment in yourself because when you do that,
You're saying to yourself, I do more than just
cut grass. I'm running and operating a business
that is going to be successful. I'm working to
build a legacy. So remember those names. Kevin
Salters, Joey Coperly, contact them, reach out
to them and join the boot camp. I've been in
the business for 16, going on to my 17th season.
And I'm hoping I can join the March bootcamp
because these guys have something that I can
learn and help me become a better business owner.
There's always room for improvement. They say,
and I don't know if you've heard this, but if
you're not growing, you're dying. Meaning, if
you're not seeing that growth in your business,
growth in your personal life, there's a dying
process taking place. And once you quit growing
and you start dying, there'll be a day that your
business collapses. So remember to always invest
in yourself. And while you're investing in yourself,
you're investing in your business. Just remember
that when you think, hey, I need some help. I
need some direction. I need some guidance. Check
out Kevin Salters and Joey Koberley. Well, I
appreciate you grouping me in there with Kevin.
The reason I brought him on was because I knew
him for a while. He was a client and he knew
everything. I'm like, why are you coming to monthly
meetings for? You know more than I do. You know,
I know statements and investing and things like
that. That's my wheelhouse, but, uh, we invited
Kevin along to do, to do just that because he,
I can't stump a man. I talked to him every week
on my podcast. I throw everything at him. Can't
stump him. He's, he's done it all. He's a, he's
a, he's a killer. Well, the thing that impressed
me about him at the LCR summit right before he
quip this past year, he was there and I looked
over at him. And he's taking notes. He's jotting
stuff down. He's right. He's asking questions
And he's been in the game for 40 years. Yeah,
but he doesn't come across like hey because I've
been in it 40 years. I Know what everything that
needs to be known. No, he's so humble. He's coming
across as hey there's something I can learn something
that you know I got a question and when they
would ask anyone have a question his hand would
go up and he would ask his question yeah and
I learned that's what I appreciate about you
is the fact that you're so approachable and you're
full of knowledge that can help these businesses
grow. So I appreciate that about you, and I thank
you for taking time out of your busy schedule
to be a part of this show tonight. Well, thanks
for having me on, Andy. I appreciate that. Yeah,
I've always wanted to be someone that's approachable
because, well, I think from my background in
finance, I have a hard time approaching anybody
in finance. It's intimidating. And so I really
wanted to be someone that is approachable. So
it's nice hearing that from you, because I want
to bring awareness of finances to this industry,
because we have a lot of hard work and people
out there. And I'm just talking from personal
experience. A lot of these guys got beat down
in school, and they don't think they're smart.
When in reality, This stuff isn't that complex
that I'm teaching. You just have to integrate
it into your business. Whenever you learn it
in school, it's not related. It's not relatable
to you. But the minute you own a business, it's
very relatable to you. It can take you to the
next level. So I'm really passionate about bringing
just financial knowledge to the lawn care industry.
So thank you. Well, when businesses fail in the
green industry, most of the time. It's not because
they don't know how to do the jobs. You know,
they can mow a stripe and it looked perfect.
They can edge a sidewalk or a driveway and it'd
be perfect. But when they fail, it's because
they have no systems and processes set in place
to help them grow. Because you don't want to
get stuck. So you've got to be growing. And that's
why your business and your services are so vital
to our industry. So, you know, I've seen business
owners fail and I've seen their work and they
do excellent work. They just don't know how to
be a business owner. Yeah, yeah, 100%. A lot
of times, well, actually, our friends at Earthapro
say it best. Courtney always says one of the
main problems of lawn care is They're very competent
in their job, but they have organizational chaos.
And that's why they started their company. And
so, yeah, a hundred percent. It's either organization,
which would be the SOP part of the things too,
or they get into some sort of debt issue. That's
the only things that I see companies failing
for, to be honest with you. Yeah. Peter and Courtney
are some great people. They're great. I love
them. I'm going to be on a show with them tomorrow
at two o 'clock. Oh yeah. Yeah. We hung out with
them. They've been sponsoring the show now for...
about six months, maybe a little longer. Good
deal. Yeah. We hung out with them at Equip. We
went to breakfast with them and that was a good
time. Yeah. We crashed their booth. About 12
of us stormed their booth and crashed it. It
was a good time. So what would you say or how
often should lawn care businesses How do they
come to the point where they understand that
staying busy doesn't mean you're profitable?
Staying busy doesn't mean you're successful.
How can we change the way people think where,
you know, I don't have to have a certain number
of clients. I just got to have the right clients.
I think, well, you have to be profitable. for
starters, the starting foundation of buying your
time back is profits. And a lot of times they
don't know if they're profitable or not, which
is where the bookkeeping can come in. So I've
talked about this quite a bit, but you have to
know what you're worth in the business, because
I'll work with guys that are doing, let's say
150 ,000 in revenue and they pay themselves $30
,000 last year. And they think that means that's
the profit. It's like, or they'll have zero at
the bottom line, but they paid themselves $30
,000, right? So they'll think that their profit
was $30 ,000. I'm like, no, that was your salary
and you actually underpaid yourself and you should
have a profit on top of that too. So it's discerning
the difference between profit and salary. You
have to know what you're worth. You wear a lot
of hats. Let's say that you did work full -time
out in the field. That doesn't account for all
the office work you did, all the sales type of
stuff that you did. So if you were gonna... replacing
yourself in the field, it might cost you $30
,000, $40 ,000, but then you did another $15
,000 of work in the back office that you're going
to have to delegate out. That's a percentage
of your business. And then you still need to
have at least a 10 % profit left over after that.
So on $150 ,000 business, I'd like to see you
paying yourself at least $60 ,000 and bringing
at least $15 ,000 to the bottom line. So that's
an additional, you'd make $75 ,000 off of that.
So it really comes down to discerning or knowing
the difference between what you're worth and
what a profit actually is, because profit, it'll
take your business a long time to realize this,
but at the end of the day, profit is money that
is paid to you through the assets that you own.
It has nothing to do with how much work you're
doing. Like you have these businesses in the
stock market, if I read their bottom line, it's
all passive income that is generated from the
team. And those profits can be redistributed
back into the business or they can be taken out
for dividends or whatever. But profit is money
paid on the assets and then salary is paid on
work performed. So you need to know the difference
because if you buy mowers and trucks and trailers
and your client list, how you've assimilated
that, that all is an asset that is worth money.
And that's what actually gives it value to an
investor. And you need to know the difference
because otherwise you're not going to have a
sellable business if it's not profitable. So
you need to know the difference. That's good.
business income, what you pay yourself. Don't
you include that in your total expenses so you
can get a true profit margin of where you're
at. Yeah, I misspoke earlier. So if you had a
hundred and let's say you did a hundred thousand
in revenue and you paid yourself $40 ,000 on
an LLC that is not an S corp. So this is most
businesses under a hundred thousand. You're Owner's
salary is not going to come out of the profit
and loss. So if I read your profit and loss,
it's going to say $100 ,000. Let's say you had
20 ,000 on the bottom line. Then we moved to
the cashflow statement. That'll tell me how much
you actually paid yourself because you're viewed
as a dividend basically. And I know this is like
a little, it's kind of hard to talk about this
over a podcast. It's more visual, but yeah. So
if you had $100 ,000 and you had $20 ,000 on
your bottom line, but you haven't paid yourself
that 40 ,000 yet, you actually lost money because
The cash flow is negative 20 ,000, if that makes
sense. So yes, you need to account for it in
your expenses, but you'd have to do that manually
on an LLC. On an S -Corp, it's automatically
there. You're paid a salary on an S -Corp and
you're there. You're a W -2. But yeah, an LLC,
you need to account for it. So there's a little
bit of a nuance there. I encourage all of our
listeners, don't fall into that trap that you
just take what's left. Pay yourself upfront.
Pay yourself well. So you can get a true figure
of how much profit your business is making and
what your profit margin truly is. It's not so
much the top end revenue that matters. It's that
bottom dollar revenue. It really matters. You
can feel good about your business for a long
time. For example, you may be... growing it through
just grit and hustling, but you're eventually
gonna get to where you need to delegate. And
when you get to that point, that's when you're
gonna see if you're actually profitable or not,
because that's what a lot of these businesses
run into, where you hear somebody going to 500K,
then they have to drop back down to 250K, cut
out their client list, restructure things. Most
of the time... It's because they weren't they
were under pricing or they weren't profitable
to begin with. And they didn't know that because
they didn't have any bookkeeping or they didn't
understand their value of themselves inside of
the business to be replaced. When I started growing
my business, it took off pretty quick. And I'm
thinking to myself, wow, there's days that I
can make more money in a day. than what I made
in two weeks when I was a deputy sheriff. And
I thought, man, I'm making all kinds of money.
But when I started trying to figure out what
my profit margin was, after I added up all of
my expenses and what I paid myself, and I figured
out what that profit margin was, I wasn't making
any money because I had too many expenditures.
That's very common. I had to tighten my belt
up. And it's true. I make more money now almost
daily than what I made in two weeks as a deputy
sheriff. That's sad. Law enforcement's not paid
near enough. I agree. So, you know, it was a
hard lesson for me because when I started, I
really didn't know what to charge, how to charge.
And I was just kind of throwing numbers out there
to clients, and every yard had a different price.
Yep. You know, this yard, well, that yard looks
like it's about a $40 yard. This one's about
a $30 yard. I realized that I've got to come
up with a bottom across the board price where
I start. Now I won't drop my gate for less than
$65. Yeah, good for you. And it goes up from
there. Mm -hmm. I've got one yard. It's $400
and The guy pays it every week That's the more
expensive ones are the ones that it's easier
to get the money out of most the time And and
he even asked me would you want me to pay you
up front for the whole year? Yeah, you know because
he's got it. He's willing to pay. Yeah, that's
like clients. Yeah that always want to Find out
right off the bat. How much is it gonna cost
me? when that's what they're concerned about.
This guy, he's concerned about what it looks
like. Not what it cost him. And he's interested
in building a relationship with your business
too. He actually cares that you're doing it or
your team's doing it. They get a really vested
interest in the brand associated with it. And
that's why I've told numerous guys that call
me or text me or send me an email when it comes
to pricing. There's two ways you price. You price
according to your value and you price according
to the client's perceived outcome. When you ask
a few questions to a potential client, like,
you know, what are you expecting? What do you
want your property to look like? And they answer
that question. Oh, I want that beautiful stripe.
I want that... the trimmed edged look, I want
everything to be perfect, then I'm not ashamed
or scared to throw out, okay, it's gonna be $75
for you to get that property. Yeah. You know,
and before, when I just first started almost
17 years ago now, I was just throwing numbers
out. And it didn't take me long to realize I'm
not making any money. I'm killing myself working.
I'm going daylight to dark. I'm killing my back,
my knees, my feet, everything's hurting because
I'm working hard, but I'm not making any money.
So I start tightening up the screws and then
I start raising my prices. So I encourage you,
if you're listening to this show and you're struggling,
maybe you need to consider raising your prices.
Maybe you need to consider tightening up your
screws. slowing down your expenditures, especially
if you're just starting. When I was just getting
started, I wouldn't buy a piece of equipment
unless I was going to use it on a consistent
basis. I'd rather go rent it. That also comes
down to the vision aspect. It's like you can
only make that decision on what piece of equipment
you're going to buy if you know the type of client
that you want to serve. So if you haven't identified
who you want to serve, you can't therefore buy
the equipment that you need. And so I run into
that a lot too. It's like cast the vision, who
do you want to serve, and then buy the things
that serves that client. And that's exactly what
you're talking about. And what neighborhood do
you want to work in? Right. Right. That makes
a huge difference. Yeah. You know, I've got a
real nice neighborhood that I've been breaking
into, and now I've got several customers there.
And these people have the money. So, when I give
them an estimate for a mulch job, I'm not going
to do it for free. I'm not going to work hard,
shovel and mulch all day long and not make any
money on it. That's just ludicrous. Right. So,
know your value. Know the perceived outcome that
your client expects. Know who your ideal customer
is. who you want to work for, the neighborhoods
you want to work in. And you can find out a lot
about your clients by learning where do they
congregate. You know, where they hang out on
Facebook or they hang out on Instagram or TikTok.
What are their social settings? You know, how
much money do they make? Where do they work?
All of these things can help you determine who
your ideal customer is and where you want to
work so you can start turning a profit and increasing
your level of revenue. Another thing that I run
into a lot, you know, we mentioned the owner's
salary, just to tie this up. Many guys, when
they start out, they don't realize how much overhead
it costs to run a big company. And you have to
factor in what it's eventually gonna cost you,
because you're not gonna get past a certain point
if you're not factoring in just basic percentages
like depreciation, repairs and maintenance on
your stuff. There's a thing called labor burden
on employees that usually runs about 18, 19,
20 % in addition to the hourly rate that you're
paying them. And many guys under 150K don't know
this and it eventually catches up to them where
they're like, oh, if I need to get to the next
level, I need all this factored into my pricing.
Whereas before I was running a lean operation
when it was just me. I didn't need all this extra
stuff. And now I'm starting to realize what it
takes to actually run a large scale operation.
So there's like eventual overhead that comes
into play that many guys overlooked in the beginning.
When you had a shop. Yeah, exactly. When you
had, you know, three or four, five, six mowers.
You know, you go out and buy six brand new mowers.
You're dropping a lot of cash. Yeah. And people
get hung up on the brand. I say you need to get
hung up on the dealer support. Yeah. So when
the mower goes down, my dealer, I had something
go wrong with my mower. I took it in. He said
out at my house. He said, you know where I live.
You've been there. He said by the garage is sitting
a grasshopper mower. Go out there and Load the
mower up and finish your route for today. He
said I'll have your mower fixed by the end of
the day Because you're you're making your living
By this equipment. Yeah, I just mow one once
a week. You're me all day. You're selling time
Yeah, yeah, so that dealer support is so important
Let's take another break and let's hear a word
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attract clients to your business. Well, Jerry,
let me ask you just a couple more questions here.
I want to be mindful of your time. But what is
a good healthy profit margin that you commonly
see in lawn care businesses? Okay, so for starters,
you always want to be above at least 5%. You
start getting above below that, you're kind of
running on life support based on economic cyclicality
or something like that, especially when you start
getting into, you know, doing more custom work,
the cyclicality of the economy will really kill
you quick, you know, during downturns. But for
lawn maintenance, I generally say shoot for 10
to 15%. Now there's commercial versus residential.
So commercial, I'd say eight to 12 is really
good in commercial. And then if you wanna get
to residential, I'm gonna go ahead and bump that
up to about 15 to 20 is excellent. Now 10 to
15 is still respectable. For landscaping jobs,
I like to shoot in that 15 to 20, sometimes 25
% range. That's all really good. And then you
start getting into really custom type of stuff.
or a lawn application, you can be in the 20 to
30 range. So the problems you run into, it's
like, oh, a higher profit margin job. Let's get
into that. Well, there's different complexities
of scaling that. For example, if you do custom
work, you're going to have a hard time training
and building systems inside of that when every
job's different. Whereas with a basic commercial
job, you can plug and play people. You can build
systems. You're on the property long. You don't
have to build routes as tight. So, you know,
there's reasons for the reasons that the profitability
is different, and it doesn't mean the grass is
always greener. Find what you enjoy to do and
do it. And, you know, any time you're over 10%,
you got a good business, man. You got a good
business, so. Well, last year when I figured
out what my profit margin was for the year, and
remember, I had no expenses last year. No breakdowns
everything went smooth all year long and I was
surprised as you are but When when I feared my
profit margin with my CPA We had a 23 % profit
margin last year. That's excellent That's after
my income. Yeah what I paid myself. That's after
all of my shop expenses all of the equipment
expenses, all the gas, the insurance, my license,
all of those things. 23 % profit margin. That's
amazing. If I can hit that again this year, I'll
be really, really happy. So one more question
and then we'll wrap this up. How important is
separating your personal and your business finances.
A lot of people don't know that. So I interviewed,
I don't know if you've had him on your show,
but he's one of my favorite interviews of all
time, Jim the lawn boss. And he's a green industry
business broker that sold over 500 green industry
businesses. He will not touch a business unless
it's doing over a million dollars in revenue.
So this guy's dealt with some big players. He
sold a lot of big businesses. And the number
one thing he said in business when he looks at
something is to separate the personal from the
business. And so you don't have to take my word
for it. You can take his word for it. He's basically
saying you're not even going to be able to sell
your business if you don't keep your personal
and your business separate. And I will say it's
not as big of a problem in the beginning. But
if you want to scale. a company, you want to,
you want to build habits from the beginning.
You want to start small, build good habits. And
that is one of the first habits that you need
to build if you ever intend on actually selling
your company, because nobody's going to want
to touch that. If you have it all mixed in it,
you know, you're doing $2 million or whatever,
no one's going to touch it. It's not going to
be valuable. So yeah, I would say create those
habits, start as early as you can. Megan and
I have always separated our personal from business
from day one. And it just makes it nice and clean.
We know what we're looking at. We can analyze
our business, know where to make decisions inside
of it. So yeah, that would be, you know, don't
take my advice, take the business broker with
500 business sales. Where can our listeners connect
with you? How can they find you? And where do
they go to schedule that 15 minute phone call
with you? Yeah, so for the landscaping bookkeeper,
which is bookkeeping organization and a monthly
meeting with a dedicated bookkeeper, that is
www .thelandscapingbookkeeper .com. Just schedule
a 15 minute phone call there. If you're interested
in lawn care launch, you can go to www .lawncarelaunch
.com. There we have several things you can do
there. You can check out our programs. We have
like a scaling package. Um, for businesses, um,
we're working on a, uh, a workshop package that
I talked to you about earlier. That's going to
be more for broad mass type of stuff, but, um,
you can schedule a free coaching call with Kevin
on there that we talked about. So that's really
cool. And then there's also the, uh, hustlers
bootcamp on there. And I'll send you a link to
that too, cause I'm not quite sure if that's
on our website quite yet, but, uh, yeah, the
hustlers bootcamp coaching with Kevin and our
scaling package all at www .theloncarelaunch
.com. Well, hopefully I will see you in March.
Yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah. Yes, sir.
I'm excited. Yeah. I'm always willing and excited
to take on a new challenge and learn something
new. Me too. Funny story is I've been wanting
to do a fast for a while. So Kevin had done fasting.
And so we're doing a fast currently right now.
So I'm on day two. I hadn't eaten anything in
two days. And it's my first one. But Kevin wrote
me into it. So I'm trying something new. Um,
anyway, that was my, I'm trying to do a lot of
things of what you're talking about this year,
doing hard things, new things. And so that's
what I got going on this week is, uh, the, the
three day fast. So, uh, yeah, yeah. I was hoping
I'd be able to do this. I'm like, I don't know
if I'm gonna be, uh, too lightheaded or what's
going to be going on, but I'm feeling great.
So yeah. Are you drinking water? Yeah, that's
it's I'm drinking three liters today. Yep. So
yesterday was kind of rough. I got a I got a
headache at the end of the day just because my
body was acclimating to it. But today I feel
pretty good. So I think about food a lot more
than normal, but I feel pretty good. Yeah. Well,
are we leaving anything out that you need to
add? I don't think oh, my podcast, the Joey Kerberle
show. If you're interested in listening to me
and Kevin chat about all kinds of stuff. I have
him on there on Wednesdays and I'll do a guest
occasionally on a Monday. But for the most part,
it's me and Kevin that do that. And right now
I'm doing a series on how to have the most impact
in your world through your business. So it's
a series. We don't only do series type of stuff
on there. I've done a scaling series and a grass
series and personal development, things like
that. But a lot of it is just me getting information
out of Kevin. Uh, cause he knows a lot more than
me. So that's, that's mainly what the show is.
Well, I have listened to your podcast and I appreciate
it. Very well done. Very professional and very
informative. Thank you. So thank you for that.
And I encourage my listeners to search the Joey
Koberley show and subscribe and hit the notification
button. So you don't miss an episode. You will
be. better because of it. Joey, thank you again
for joining the Lawn Hustle. I really appreciate
you being on the show tonight. So until we talk
again, God bless you and I wish you nothing but
success. Thanks so much, Andy. I really appreciate
you having me on. God bless you as well.