1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,240 Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts Rohan Das and Gus Urban. 2 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,400 In this groundbreaking podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives of individuals whose 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,680 journey has been profoundly transformed by their faith. 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,200 From the trial of adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore real stories, real 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,400 people whose encounter with God has reshaped their existence. 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:35,120 Join us as we embark on a candid and enlightening journey where authenticity meets spirituality 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,560 every Friday on Real Talk Friday, part of Logan City Christian Church. 8 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,760 Hello and welcome to another episode of Real Talk Friday, Season 3. 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,080 And I'm excited to be here with my co-host, Gus. 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,280 Hey everyone, welcome. 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,280 Thanks for joining us again. 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:57,840 Yeah, and as usual, we love to bring new people in this show and people with great testimony. 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,400 And we have a special guest and I'll let Gus do the introduction. 14 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,680 Yeah, today we've got a very important guest. 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,400 We just want to welcome Ross Winchester. 16 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Thank you for making the time to come on our show. 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Thank you. 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,560 Thank you for inviting me. 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,560 Appreciate it. 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:16,560 Great, Ross. 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:25,120 Well, I did a bit of research in your background, your story, and I was just fascinated by the 22 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,920 things that you've achieved and God's helped you achieve these things. 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,040 And we just want to dive right into it because I think it's such a great story. 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:40,160 So I feel like the first thing I would like to talk about is you telling us a bit of your 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,160 journey. 26 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Let's start from your childhood and what inspired you to be where you are right now. 27 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,400 Okay, well, I came to the Lord when I was about 18. 28 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,960 I was involved in motorbike groups and the drug scene, the party scene, all that rubbish 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,360 and went to a tent crusade. 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,720 I was invited to a tent crusade by a co-worker of mine. 31 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,680 And so I went there and for the first time I really heard the gospel. 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,160 And when the appeal was given, I ran down to the front, knocking chairs away and just 33 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,560 prayed my way through to salvation. 34 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:22,040 And then as they were just talking to me, an old missionary, Pastor T.L. Evans came 35 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:26,560 up to me and he'd been a missionary in India for 30 years, part of New Guinea for 10 years 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,320 and just an amazing man of God. 37 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,280 And he came up to me, shook me by the hand, this old Welsh missionary and his inimitable 38 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:41,560 voice said, you never know son, you might be a preacher one day. 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,720 And when he said that, something like resonated in his spirit like, yes. 40 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Now you've got to understand, I didn't know what being a Christian was and he, you know, 41 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,600 I'm a spawner, yes, I'm going to be a preacher. 42 00:02:52,600 --> 00:03:03,000 So it was like God saved me, separated me and there was, I guess, a missionary impartation 43 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,000 right then. 44 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,200 And right from that moment, I just knew that I wanted to serve God. 45 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,800 I didn't know what that meant. 46 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,560 But in our church that we attended, every time a missionary speaker came, I'd say, that's 47 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:15,920 what I want to be. 48 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,200 I want to be a pioneer missionary. 49 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:26,680 Yeah, so time went on and then was on staff at my church and then eventually went to Bible 50 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:34,080 College and in the last year of college, I was what they call the president of the missions 51 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,360 fellowship there. 52 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:41,520 And so we were bemoaning the fact that no one was going to the field as missionaries. 53 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,280 In the last 10 years, no graduates had gone to the field. 54 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,680 And our job as a missions committee was to like inspire the students to get involved 55 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,680 in missions and there was even pushback like, you know, we've got enough to do our own 56 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,680 backyard. 57 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,640 Yeah, yes, and you always will do. 58 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,520 But anyway, so we're sitting around and I said, well, I've got an idea. 59 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,360 Why don't we all right now just decide we're all going to be missionaries, our six committee 60 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,360 members. 61 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,120 And I was, whoa, you know, you're going to have the call of God. 62 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,320 I said, have you read Matthew 28 lately? 63 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,800 You know, Jesus has told us to go and make disciples of all nations. 64 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,800 Let's do it. 65 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:18,800 Yeah. 66 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,920 And so to me, that was, I mean, I was preparing up to that point, but that kind of flipped 67 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,080 the switch for me in a real way. 68 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,440 And also another young lady who eventually went to South Africa. 69 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:35,840 And because others waiting for angels and visitations, it's really just down to obedience. 70 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:41,720 And then at the end of my last year, we're having this big missions committee, missions 71 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,720 conference. 72 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,560 And because I was the president, I got to speak the first night and previous night I 73 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,120 was preparing and I'm thinking this is my last hurrah. 74 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,520 You know, this is my last chance to really challenge these guys about missions. 75 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:56,520 Yeah. 76 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,680 So I'm preparing this message very diligently, the great commission or the great omission. 77 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:09,640 And I'm going to lead them with a bit of guilt, you know, and, and as I'm furiously preparing, 78 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,840 God spoke to me and I don't say that lightly because this may be the only time in my whole 79 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:19,000 life that I've actually heard the audible voice of God in the sense that I would turn 80 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,640 around to see who was there. 81 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,440 Would you like to know what he said? 82 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,440 Absolutely. 83 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,440 Pleased. 84 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,640 He said, and what about you? 85 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:29,640 Wow. 86 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,680 And I was like, what about me? 87 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,560 You know, I've been preparing my life for years, trying to knock down doors, open, you 88 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,160 know, find opportunities and, you know, nothing. 89 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,800 And then I realised I was an idiot that God had actually said, green light, it's time 90 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,800 for you to go. 91 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,800 Yeah. 92 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:49,800 Yeah. 93 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,560 So the next day I called our mission and said, you want to sign up? 94 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,320 You want to go to the field? 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Where do you want to go? 96 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,320 China. 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,320 I said, you can't hardly get in as a tourist. 98 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,800 This is 1981. 99 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Okay. 100 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:01,800 And I said, well, Burma. 101 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,800 That's even harder. 102 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,440 I said, well, mainland Asia, you know, but we're ready. 103 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,440 Yeah. 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,520 And I said, well, I just got a letter today from the superintendent of the Thailand Assemblies 105 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,640 of God appealing Australian missionaries to come and help. 106 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,680 And I said, we'll go. 107 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,680 Wow. 108 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,680 Where's Thailand? 109 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,600 It was almost like that, you know. 110 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:23,600 Yeah. 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,760 It just felt God was just rolling things out for us. 112 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:27,760 Yeah. 113 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:28,760 And we were moving with it. 114 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:29,760 Yeah. 115 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,120 And so I went back to our home church and they said, well, we want you to pioneer this 116 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,120 church up at Mount Tamborine. 117 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,160 I said, I just signed up to go to Thailand. 118 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,160 Yeah. 119 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,160 Yeah. 120 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,160 And they said, well, you're going to need time to raise funds and visas and all that. 121 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,000 I said, all right, we'll do it for one year. 122 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,000 So we did that for one year. 123 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,280 It was a great experience. 124 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:53,000 And then the following year, 83, we moved to Thailand, which was very different as things 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,800 are done these days because we had never been to Thailand. 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,680 I never met a Thai person. 127 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,600 I'd never eaten a Thai meal. 128 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,040 I never knew anyone in Thailand. 129 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,400 So it was, you know, landing on the ground with my wife and two boys. 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,520 It was an adventure and we loved it. 131 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,520 Wow. 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,520 That's incredible. 133 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,520 Yeah. 134 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Going back to what you said, right at the start, you said how God saved you and then 135 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,760 separated you. 136 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:32,200 At that separating, you'd never be sitting here fulfilling the call of God on your life 137 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,200 today. 138 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:40,640 Sort of like a Daniel when he left and went into exile, there was that separation, I'm 139 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,280 not going to do just because I'm not in my homeland. 140 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:45,480 God is still real. 141 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,200 I'm not going to do what everyone else is doing. 142 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,280 I'm doing what God's called me to do. 143 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:59,800 And from what I sort of feel is that we see a lot of what you'd probably say, we get saved 144 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:06,880 and it's a wonderful experience, but sometimes people never get that separation of that conviction 145 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,880 of, okay, what I used to do, I can no longer do. 146 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,160 And making that choice would be very hard, but the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your 147 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:23,920 life I could imagine and the love of God, the experience of salvation would have overridden 148 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:29,720 what every temptation and all that sort of thing where not that temptation was never 149 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:36,920 there, but you were a new creation in Christ Jesus that the old has passed and the new 150 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,920 has come. 151 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:46,240 I just wanted to bring that up because when you said that, it just really resonated inside 152 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,520 of me of a separation, salvation and a separation. 153 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,280 And I don't think that should be unique to me because everyone when they're born again 154 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,760 are born for a purpose, for a mission. 155 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,200 Whether they recognise that, whether they're obedient to that, that's a whole other issue. 156 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:07,560 But yeah, we're all made for a special purpose in God's economy. 157 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,080 Absolutely. 158 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:14,880 And for people watching, yeah, I just want to put it out there that you probably feel 159 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:20,560 the call of God and you've had a great salvation experience. 160 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,880 Is there separation from your old life? 161 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:30,140 I guess that's really probably the determining factor for the rest of your Christian walk. 162 00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:36,600 We can't mix lightness, light with darkness and we can't be Luke warm. 163 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,280 It's either one or the other sort of thing. 164 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,600 And this is the very reason why we have you as a missionary for over 40 years is because 165 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,400 of that separation that took place all those years ago. 166 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,440 And so yeah, I just sort of felt like, I don't know, that was just something that resonated 167 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:55,800 in me when you said that. 168 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,000 So sorry to sort of go back and not at all. 169 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,680 But yeah, no, that's beautiful. 170 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:02,680 That's amazing. 171 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,480 And that's what salvation is all about. 172 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,480 Yeah, we're saved for something. 173 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,480 Exactly. 174 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,480 From something. 175 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,480 From something. 176 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:10,480 Yeah, exactly. 177 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:11,480 Yeah. 178 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:12,480 Yeah. 179 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,480 That's incredible. 180 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,480 Thank you for sharing that, Gus. 181 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,200 I think that's very insightful. 182 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:21,040 And there's a lot of listeners there that have questions when it comes to salvation. 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,880 I think this really helps to get a better understanding about it. 184 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,880 I like what you said. 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,400 You're either cold or hot. 186 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,400 There's no in-between. 187 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Yeah. 188 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,400 And it's a biblical thing. 189 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,400 And thank you for that, Gus. 190 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,440 I think that was really great. 191 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:41,840 But coming back to your story, so you spent 40 years in Thailand and China. 192 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Am I right? 193 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:43,840 Yeah. 194 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:44,840 Yeah. 195 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:45,840 Yeah. 196 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:46,840 That's a long time. 197 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,220 And what were the challenges that you faced within that 40 years? 198 00:10:49,220 --> 00:10:54,800 Because a lot of people, that's like a place that not a lot of people go to mission or 199 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,200 spend that much time in mission. 200 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,040 China as we know it, not friendly to Christian people. 201 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,040 Not the most welcoming. 202 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:05,040 Yes. 203 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:11,120 And much better, but still there might have been a lot of cultural differences. 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,480 Because I know because I lived in Kenya for a long time and my parents worked with churches 205 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,480 there. 206 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,040 And I know the kind of cultural barriers that come with that. 207 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,600 And it's difficult, very difficult to do mission work, especially when you're of a different 208 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:26,600 race. 209 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,480 Because we face that problem in Kenya. 210 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,080 What was it like for you? 211 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,760 Well, that's a big question. 212 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:41,240 The challenges, which there have been many and most of them were to do with me. 213 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:48,120 And I think it's like when you go to a new place, I think it's the role that you adopt 214 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,820 is very, very important. 215 00:11:49,820 --> 00:11:54,800 Because sometimes we can adopt roles that are not really viable, that kind of actually 216 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,680 build walls instead of bridges. 217 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:02,680 So instead of going as a teacher, I've always tried to go as a learner. 218 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:03,680 Why? 219 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:08,960 Because whether you got degrees, whatever, you're a learner. 220 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,560 You go to a new country, you're like born again in that country, you're a baby, you're 221 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,320 learning, everything is different. 222 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:22,560 So if you go with the mentality, I've come to teach, that's not going to work well. 223 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,800 I mean, you may come there to teach and that will happen. 224 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,720 But your attitude, your role, I'm a learner, I want to learn how things work here, I want 225 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,880 to learn how people think, I want to learn how people behave, what they need. 226 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:40,240 So learner before teacher and also... 227 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,800 I've never heard that, sorry. 228 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:43,800 That's incredible. 229 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,800 It's so important. 230 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:45,800 So baseline. 231 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:46,800 Sorry to interrupt. 232 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:47,800 Yeah, no. 233 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,840 And also to be a trader rather than a seller. 234 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,040 You know, whether I come in, yeah, I've got something, here's my prepackaged program, 235 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:57,040 this is what I do. 236 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,840 This is my ministry, I'm going to sell it to you. 237 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,160 Right now I'm a trader, okay, tell me about what you guys are doing. 238 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:10,160 And there's an affinity that's established where it's not me trying to force something 239 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:16,400 on these people or this church or whatever, but you're being open and there's like a transactional 240 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,160 sort of relationship that you're having with people that's so much more important than 241 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,840 just trying to sell your product if you want to call it that. 242 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:25,840 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 243 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:26,840 Yeah, yeah, exactly right. 244 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:32,560 And the other one is to be a storyteller, not an accuser. 245 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:38,280 Because we can come into a culture and human nature is... 246 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,520 Our culture is our measuring rod, okay? 247 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,640 Everything we see, we measure it according to our culture. 248 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:49,120 But usually we measure it by our ideals and their actuals. 249 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,600 Yeah, okay. 250 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,600 This is what we believe, do we? 251 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,320 Yeah, but do we do it? 252 00:13:54,320 --> 00:14:00,360 So that's their ideals in our culture, but we look at the actuals and their culture instead 253 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,920 of pointing the finger back at us and say, well, maybe we've got some things to learn. 254 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,680 Maybe we should start accusing our culture before we start doing it with them. 255 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,120 They may be saying, why are you guys so independent? 256 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,120 You don't do community. 257 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,280 Why are you so materialistic? 258 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,440 And we don't see them as sins, but that's life in the Western world. 259 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,440 Yeah, exactly. 260 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,960 Independent, materialistic, we want stuff. 261 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,240 Where we look at them, why did they... 262 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,920 They seem to be not telling the truth so much. 263 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Well, they did that because they didn't want to hurt your feelings. 264 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,840 And there's all this kind of stuff that... 265 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:42,800 But if you come as more of a storyteller, and you're exchanging your stories back home 266 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:49,960 and finding out their stories there, I think the way you land is very, very important. 267 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:50,960 Very true, yeah. 268 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,600 So you land in a certain way and adopt certain roles. 269 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,840 They're hard to shake if you do it the wrong way. 270 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:57,840 Yeah. 271 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,440 So how did you come to that understanding? 272 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,400 Did you initially go there as a learner, as you said, or did you sort of go there and 273 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,840 go, oh, wait, this isn't working? 274 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:08,840 And then... 275 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,520 Yeah, I guess it was the latter. 276 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,560 I went, well, I've got something for these guys. 277 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,640 I think I've got something I can share with them. 278 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:25,040 And then the longer I was there, I realised, if I don't really understand these people, 279 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,560 how can I minister to them? 280 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:33,320 And the only way to understand them is to adopt that role of a learner rather than the 281 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,240 one that has all the answers. 282 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 283 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000 Exactly right. 284 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,000 Sort of... 285 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:46,400 I don't know how to say it, but being as they are sort of thing. 286 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,640 Like trying to, I guess you had to learn the language. 287 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:50,640 Yes. 288 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,840 Like how hard would that have been? 289 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,480 For me it'd be impossible. 290 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Well, it was... 291 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,240 Any language is difficult that you've got to learn. 292 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,560 They say, what's the hardest language? 293 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,560 Well, the one you have to learn is the hardest language. 294 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,520 And it depends who you are, what your hardest language is. 295 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,480 People might say, oh, for you Chinese, it's probably hard. 296 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,640 Yeah, it's very hard. 297 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,160 But for a Korean person, no, piece of cake. 298 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,840 For me, learning Spanish, French, because there's similarities. 299 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:21,840 Yes. 300 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,760 So it depends, you know, who you are, what you've got to learn. 301 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,800 But when I first arrived there, an old missionary came to me and said, Ross, you cannot learn 302 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,400 language without learning culture. 303 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,920 And you cannot learn culture without learning language. 304 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:42,760 And that's so true because they're so intertwined and language kind of reflects the people's 305 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,440 worldview. 306 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,520 And so to get a real base understanding of who these people are and what they believe 307 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:54,120 and why they do things without really learning the language, it's very, very difficult, if 308 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,120 not impossible. 309 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,120 Yeah. 310 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,120 Yeah. 311 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,120 So it's... 312 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,720 How long would you say that took? 313 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:06,280 How long was that process when you actually started to understand both language and culture, 314 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,080 say like in Thailand, where you felt like you could actually be effective now? 315 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:16,000 Well, we spent the first 80 months in Bangkok. 316 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,360 We were involved in ministry, but also heavily involved in language school. 317 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:26,080 And then we moved down to the south of Thailand and I had a evangelistic outreach team. 318 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,080 We had a big tent. 319 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:33,400 We'd go around and do evangelistic outreaches, plant churches, and no one could speak English. 320 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,880 Oh, wow. 321 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,840 In that whole area, we were the only foreigners. 322 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,840 Yeah. 323 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,080 We were the only English speakers. 324 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,080 So it was immersion. 325 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Yeah, yeah. 326 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:50,560 But having the theoretical foundation was very important, but then to have the practical. 327 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:57,080 So at that end of that first three-year term, I was relatively fluent. 328 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,080 Yeah. 329 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,120 I mean, you get more fluent the longer you stay there, of course. 330 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:04,560 That seems like a hard slog. 331 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:05,560 Yeah. 332 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,560 Three years. 333 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:07,560 That really does. 334 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,640 Yeah, but it's a wonderful, interesting language. 335 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,200 Yeah, cool, cool, cool. 336 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,680 Plus, there's a grace on your life to do it, like God's gift in your life and for your 337 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,200 life as well. 338 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,000 Obviously, if he calls someone to go do something, he's going to provide everything that they 339 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,200 need, especially enablement, grace. 340 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,240 So yeah, obviously, that was a big factor as well. 341 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,960 Because I'm listening to this and trying to picture myself in it. 342 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,120 I'm like, no, I can't do that. 343 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:43,360 I'm flat out with English. 344 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,880 So I speak Australian, and I'm not fluent in English yet. 345 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:57,680 Well, when we landed in China, it was interesting because my first passion for mission was China. 346 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,200 Right from the early days, where do you want to go? 347 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,200 China. 348 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,200 Yeah, OK. 349 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,880 I was just fascinated with China. 350 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,320 But that didn't happen because we landed, as I said, in Thailand. 351 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,680 We were there for 11 years. 352 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:14,000 And the longer we were there, I thought, well, this is, I don't know what China was all about. 353 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,840 This is obviously where we were supposed to be. 354 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,880 And then we went back to Australia to do some missionary training with the program there. 355 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:29,880 And then when we arrived in China to live, I thought, it's 30 years since God spoke to 356 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:30,880 me about China. 357 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:31,880 Wow. 358 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,880 That was a long time ago. 359 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,840 And obviously, God had a bit to do in my life to prepare me. 360 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,440 I mean, he could have sent me to China right off day one. 361 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,960 But I'd be like that messenger who ran from the battle to the king. 362 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:47,960 What's the message? 363 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:48,960 No idea. 364 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:49,960 Yeah. 365 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,960 I'm here, but I don't know what to say. 366 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,680 I want to be like that. 367 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,480 So God had a lot of work through the good, the bad, the ugly, and got there. 368 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,680 And then we were there for 20 years in China. 369 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,560 And then over the last three, four years, well, four years ago, we relocated back to 370 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:07,840 Thailand. 371 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:14,920 And now we're working also in Myanmar, formerly called Burma in Karen state, which was another 372 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,040 one, which was my second choice. 373 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,040 That's right. 374 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,240 It's interesting how God kind of made it happen, but certainly not according to my timeline, 375 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,280 but definitely according to his. 376 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,280 Yeah, absolutely. 377 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,280 Yeah. 378 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:27,280 No, that's amazing. 379 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,960 Well, thank you for sharing that. 380 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:34,040 I think that's, it's true what you said about language and culture. 381 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,040 And I agree with you. 382 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:42,680 I think they're so closely linked that it's so important to understand both. 383 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,680 Yes. 384 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,600 And that's the same thing when I was in Kenya, I had to understand both. 385 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Yeah. 386 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,000 Because they used to do things that I never understood. 387 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,120 I'm like, why is it done this way? 388 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:56,320 But then you quickly understand, or there are certain phrases they used to use. 389 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,080 And I would be like, why would you say that? 390 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,680 And they're just like, because it's a very cultural thing. 391 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,760 And someone put it this way to me when I was in Kenya. 392 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:13,320 They used to be, I went to see a family in Kenya and they were out in the villages and 393 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,400 everything. 394 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,120 And I was doing a mission trip and I sat down with the family and they were cooking in a 395 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:21,120 certain way. 396 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:22,120 And I questioned it. 397 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,060 I'm like, why are you doing that? 398 00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:26,060 Why would you do it? 399 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:32,000 There's so much easier way to do these things coming from a city, a very city mentality. 400 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:38,080 But then the guy that I was sitting with, he told me, oh, my grandmother did it this 401 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,080 way. 402 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,080 That's why we do it this way. 403 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:47,280 So I asked the mother about why you start a fire this way. 404 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,000 They usually use coal to make their food. 405 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,960 So they were doing it in a very weird way. 406 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,520 For me, if I want to burn coal, I would just take a bunch of newspapers, twigs, put it 407 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,440 there, burn and put some coal on top. 408 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,800 But they were doing it in a much difficult way. 409 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,720 And I just questioned them, like, surely there's an easier way. 410 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,840 But he said my grandmother used to do it and it's become like kind of like something within 411 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,840 the family. 412 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,200 Then I asked the mother and the mother said, we do it this way because we used to live 413 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,600 in like a swampy area. 414 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:19,840 There was no dry wood. 415 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,680 There was nothing. 416 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,240 So I quickly understand that it's not a culture there. 417 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,240 That's because they were trying to use the resources they had within that area. 418 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,200 That became kind of a culture. 419 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,200 Like, this is now how we do it. 420 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,620 Although there's dry wood twigs everywhere that they could use to do this, but they still 421 00:22:39,620 --> 00:22:40,620 use a harder way. 422 00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:42,160 So that was very interesting. 423 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,900 I thought I would put it in because I felt like that's interesting. 424 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:50,600 We need to understand because we're very quick to judge, oh, this is not the right way. 425 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,280 There's a reason behind everything. 426 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,680 And I thank you for learning that culture. 427 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,560 The interesting thing that I found while I was reading, I think I was reading an article 428 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,880 that was on you on the internet and you talked about the Jesus leadership model. 429 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,840 Am I right about that? 430 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:14,720 You spoke about that saying, I'll read it out, Jesus gave responsibility and authority 431 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,000 and then saw feedback. 432 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,480 And that was something that you said. 433 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,720 And I felt that was very interesting and I wanted to talk more on that. 434 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,880 Or basically talk about the leadership models that you use because it's very important to... 435 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,360 It's a different world out there, especially when it comes to China and Thailand, because 436 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,040 not many people go into that area of mission. 437 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:42,120 And I feel like God has brought a lot of people from Thailand, from China into Australia, 438 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,360 and we're trying to reach out to them, but we just cannot because first of all, we don't 439 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,400 understand the culture. 440 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,960 And we tried to put this Western mentality into preaching to them that's not really effective, 441 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,640 it's not really working. 442 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,360 So I would like you to talk more about that leadership kind of role and how to effectively 443 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,040 minister to these people because I think a lot of people would appreciate that. 444 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Yeah. 445 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:11,240 Well, the first thing is Jesus model was he gave responsibility. 446 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,680 He said, okay, when you go out, preach the gospel of the kingdom, tell them the kingdom 447 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,840 of God is near, had a responsibility. 448 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:23,360 And if we do, and he didn't just do that, but sometimes that's the only thing we do, 449 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,040 here's a job, do it. 450 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,920 And you don't create leaders like that, you create followers. 451 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,280 And so as well as responsibility, you have to give authority. 452 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,040 That's what Jesus, okay, as you go, I'm giving you authority over evil spirits, giving you 453 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,200 authority to heal the sick. 454 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,680 And that's what they did. 455 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,240 But again, if that's all you do, then you create leaders, but they may not be the best 456 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:53,040 leaders because you've actually abdicated your responsibility to mentor them. 457 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,760 You know, you just say his job is authority, go and do it. 458 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,760 Yeah. 459 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,480 So there's the three things you give a responsibility like Jesus did, go and preach the gospel, 460 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,340 give them authority over stuff. 461 00:25:04,340 --> 00:25:08,520 And then they came back, reported, and he gave them feedback. 462 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,560 They came back and I said, wow, even the demons are subject to us. 463 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,560 Yeah. 464 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,560 And Jesus is, hey, just chill. 465 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,560 Chill. 466 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Yeah. 467 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,720 So don't be, don't rejoice because demons are subject to you. 468 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,200 Rejoice because your names are written in the book of life. 469 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:34,760 So he's using a Hebrew literary form here where you take first and second priority and 470 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,840 you put them as opposites. 471 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,000 In other words, you know, he's not really saying don't rejoice because demons are subject 472 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000 to you. 473 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,120 He says in comparison, don't even think about that. 474 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,120 Yeah. 475 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:46,120 This is the important thing. 476 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:47,120 It's written in the book of life. 477 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:48,120 Yeah. 478 00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:51,240 It's like when Jesus said, if you're going to be my disciple, you can't, if you don't 479 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,280 hate your mother or father, or did he really want us to hate our mother or father? 480 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,280 No. 481 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,600 We're told to honor our mother and father, but he's just taking priority one, priority 482 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,880 two and put them like in opposition to each other. 483 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:09,480 Your love for your family should look like hate when it's compared to your love for me. 484 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,480 Exactly. 485 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,160 Or he saw, have I hated, Jacob have I loved. 486 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,160 He didn't hate. 487 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,320 He created a nation out of it. 488 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,320 Exactly. 489 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,560 But Jacob was chosen one. 490 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,560 Yep. 491 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,960 So this is what Jesus is just trying to give feedback. 492 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,280 So they become better leaders. 493 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,280 Yeah. 494 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,280 Make sense? 495 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,280 So interesting. 496 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Yeah. 497 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,280 Yeah. 498 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Very, very good. 499 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,280 Yeah. 500 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,280 That's incredible. 501 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,280 Yeah. 502 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,280 I love what you said there. 503 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,000 I've never, I think I read about the Jesus model, the leadership model, but that was 504 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,000 a while ago. 505 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,680 I don't know, haven't really, this was well explained. 506 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,400 What you said here is very well explained. 507 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,080 And I think it kind of puts it in a nutshell and how it's very important because I think 508 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,440 Jesus was the greatest leader alive. 509 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,440 Oh yeah. 510 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:55,440 Yeah. 511 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,800 And we have, we can learn so much with it. 512 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:05,200 And I just want to, I'm very keen to know how that leadership model went about when 513 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,000 you were doing your missions in China and Thailand. 514 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,120 What were like the challenges that you face and what were, what were the kind of blessing 515 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,120 that you saw happening with that kind of leadership? 516 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:21,040 Because I'm not sure whether they're very open to those kinds of leadership models or 517 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,480 it's because it might be the culture playing a role in that. 518 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,720 I'm keen to know how did it work out then? 519 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:34,320 Well, Thailand particularly where we're working now is very hierarchical structure of leadership 520 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,720 and society. 521 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:44,640 And we talk about servant leadership a lot in our context, whereas in Thailand you're 522 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,320 either a servant or a leader, you can't be both. 523 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,320 Yeah. 524 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,320 Okay. 525 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,320 So that's the challenge. 526 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,320 Yeah. 527 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,240 And you have to work within the system, the hierarchical system, because the themes of 528 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,120 like service and humility, they're there. 529 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:03,880 You don't have to import new themes or concepts. 530 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:11,000 But you just have to try and build that into a biblical framework for people. 531 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,200 And it's a lot of it's about example. 532 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,800 It's not about telling people what to do. 533 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,600 And yeah, so that's a very real challenge. 534 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,600 Yeah, I could imagine. 535 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,600 Yeah. 536 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,080 Yeah, like for me, I'm hearing all this for the first time and I'm a bit quiet because 537 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,000 I'm just trying to process everything. 538 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,600 Like that's incredible what you're saying. 539 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:40,800 Yeah, I'm going to be watching this and then going over it and then looking into it. 540 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,640 What you said there, it's like, you know, it's either you're a servant or a leader, 541 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:46,640 you can't be both. 542 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:47,640 Yeah. 543 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:48,640 That really caught me. 544 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,280 I'm like, that's so true. 545 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,760 Even in the Indian culture that I see, that is exactly what it is. 546 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,880 Like you can either be a leader or a servant, but you cannot be both. 547 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,440 And when you introduce that into the culture or society, I think there'll be a lot of people 548 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,400 reluctant to listen to that. 549 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,160 Like, no, no, no, help me out of it because I don't want to be both. 550 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,160 Yeah. 551 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,880 I can't be a servant to my servant. 552 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,400 And it's sort of like in Australian culture, it's like, sure, you'll be my boss and I respect 553 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,400 you. 554 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,200 But if you do something wrong to me, I'm going to let you have it. 555 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,200 You know what I mean? 556 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,160 Like typical Australian, that's how it is. 557 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,480 But, I mean, cultures play a huge part. 558 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,000 How we share the gospel, establish churches and leadership and that. 559 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,000 It's all about context. 560 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,000 Oh, unbelievable. 561 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,320 And like we're talking about servant leadership. 562 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:49,000 It's not like how did Jesus, Jesus never wrote a book or held a seminar on servant leadership. 563 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000 He washed feet. 564 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,000 Exactly. 565 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000 So there's the example. 566 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000 He practically did it. 567 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,160 But I think it's more than for us to, it's more than just, okay, I'm willing to do the 568 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,160 menial job to you. 569 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,440 Can I get a cup of coffee? 570 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,600 I'm your servant, you know, but I'm your leader too. 571 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,400 It's much more than that. 572 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:15,360 We use the terms like transactional and transformational leadership. 573 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,360 Right. 574 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:22,040 So transactional is, okay, I'm the leader and this is my goal and I want you to help 575 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,040 me with my goal. 576 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,240 And if you do that, I'll give you a pat on the back and I'll recognise you in front of 577 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,240 people. 578 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,600 So there's kind of a transactional nature to the leadership, which is common in Asia 579 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,600 particularly. 580 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,600 Okay. 581 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,000 But the transformational, it's okay. 582 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,000 I want you to reach your full potential. 583 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,600 You've got a gift on your life and maybe I need some stuff done here and maybe you could 584 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,680 do it well, but I could see you really doing something wonderful here. 585 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,560 So that's that, you know, transformational leadership is wanting the best for the other 586 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,600 person, not just wanting to use the other person to achieve your goals. 587 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,840 And that's what Jesus did too. 588 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:03,840 Yeah, absolutely. 589 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:04,840 Yeah. 590 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,960 You know, I can sum it up by saying love, that shows a lot of love. 591 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:08,960 Yeah. 592 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,960 Transformational. 593 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:10,960 That's just amazing. 594 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:18,160 When you go to another country, another culture, you know, you have to do it in a loving way 595 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,160 and sometimes we can be so authoritative, saying like, this is, you know, this is the 596 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,320 way, the truth and the lie. 597 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,600 You must follow it. 598 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,840 It's the word of God you have to do and say. 599 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,480 I don't care what you've been, you know, reading your entire life and what your culture is 600 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,480 all about, but this is the right way. 601 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,000 Essentially that's true, but we're not doing it the right way. 602 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,380 We're not showing love because we need to be respectful. 603 00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:46,040 We need to like show them exactly what Jesus did. 604 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,120 Jesus didn't come and just, you know, boast authority everywhere. 605 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,600 He was a very humble man and he did his ministry in a very humble way and very respectful way. 606 00:31:54,600 --> 00:32:00,080 You know, he was stoned and he had to go out of, he didn't stay there and say, hey, you 607 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,320 know, I'm being stoned. 608 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,320 Why are you stoning me? 609 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,560 Or like, you know, he could have done so many things. 610 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,320 He could have called, you know, the angels to come and fight a battle, but he did not. 611 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,960 He just slipped away and went and said, I'll pray for you. 612 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,960 Yeah. 613 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,280 And it can be challenging when you do mission work like this. 614 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,040 Wow, that's really good. 615 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,040 Well, a hundred percent. 616 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,760 And when you go to a new culture, you'll make a lot of mistakes. 617 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,760 It's unavoidable. 618 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:32,440 You're going to make mistakes, but your attitude in that, like you're saying, love and grace, 619 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,440 you'll get a lot of forgiveness. 620 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,200 You'll get a lot of forgiveness. 621 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,800 But if you go in like arrogantly, yeah, they may not even say anything to you, but you're 622 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:41,800 done. 623 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,360 No, that's amazing. 624 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:51,160 So we'll come to the present times now because I know you've been doing missions a lot, but 625 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,200 recently in the recent past, what has been like, what's got put in your heart and what's 626 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,060 your focus in? 627 00:32:57,060 --> 00:33:02,680 Is it still mission work in Thailand or do you want to like do more work within Australia 628 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,400 or what is it? 629 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:05,400 I just... 630 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:11,200 Well, in just over a week, we're back in Thailand, Northern Thailand, where we work with leadership 631 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:17,080 development amongst the Thai ethnic churches, the Karen churches, Hmong, Lahu churches, 632 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,680 and God's given us great favour in that space. 633 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:27,300 Two or three years ago, we became aware of what was happening in Karen state just across 634 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:31,840 the border from us into Myanmar, formerly called Burma. 635 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,600 And I heard about the atrocities that were being committed there by their own government 636 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:44,440 bombing not just the Karen, but probably all the minorities, but the one that we were aware 637 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:50,280 of in Karen state, bombing the villages, burning their crops, Burmese troops coming in, firing 638 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,960 on non-combatants, rape, torture, murder, women and children. 639 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,480 They're forced to live in the jungle and holes in the ground and caves and with nothing, 640 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,440 you know, and I thought, wow, we've got to go and see. 641 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,760 So loaded up our truck with provisions and went to the border and met our Karen friends, 642 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,620 got on a boat couple of hours up the river and into the war zone in Karen state. 643 00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:16,680 And just the things you see there, the images that stay with you. 644 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:17,680 Oh, can't unsee. 645 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:18,680 No. 646 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:24,240 And a young boy, 16, M16, patrolling the perimeter of the village looking for ground troops and 647 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,240 who should live like that? 648 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:31,560 You know, yeah, just horrific, horrific things happening. 649 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,000 And I said to Don and when we got back, I said, you know, we're not equipped for this. 650 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,000 We're not trained with no experience, but we've got to do something. 651 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,680 So we just started working with our Karen friends and raising funds to take in provisions 652 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:50,280 with food, rice, tarps or temporary shelters, water filtration device, whatever they needed 653 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,280 to take in. 654 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,280 Beautiful. 655 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,280 So our role was more raising funds, raising awareness, raising partners so we could just 656 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,440 continue to do that. 657 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,600 And we've been doing that for a couple of years and we're unfortunately still having 658 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,300 to do it because it's just continuing all the time. 659 00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:09,320 And so they're more the frontline guys. 660 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,840 Don't get the idea that I'm like Indiana Jones with the machete in the jungle. 661 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:14,840 No, that's not me. 662 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,160 But I do go in from time to time. 663 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:25,040 We meet them and to put it in perspective for me, like one time we met like 100 people 664 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,880 that came over, met them on the border. 665 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:34,240 Another time, another village walk 12 hours through the jungle, not through the jogging 666 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,160 track, through the jungle, through the jungle to just to pick up the supplies. 667 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,320 And they've got a 20 kilo rice sack. 668 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,760 It's going to take them longer to get back. 669 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:50,040 And just the desperation, but the appreciation that they have for just anyone helping them 670 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,720 in their struggle. 671 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:59,400 And so, you know, in our culture, you know, excuse me, I had that caramel latte on skinny 672 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,680 camel milk 10 minutes ago. 673 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,680 What do you mean you don't have a skinny camel? 674 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,720 And I want to see the manager now. 675 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,120 So yeah, that's perspective, perspective. 676 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,920 Twelve hours to get a bag of rice. 677 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,520 Yeah, no, no, because that's what I was thinking about is like if anyone here in Australia 678 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,400 or anywhere is struggling to appreciate life, maybe go on a mission trip or do something 679 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,400 like that. 680 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,280 It'll fix you up like that. 681 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,280 First world problems. 682 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,280 And they're real. 683 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:28,680 We've got issues, there's problems. 684 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:34,240 I get it, you know, but to get perspective to see what other people, they've got nothing, 685 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:35,240 nothing, nothing. 686 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:40,200 And just anything we can do to help them, they're just so appreciative. 687 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,920 So we work with a team there and we've got kind of a three phase strategy. 688 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,320 One is just help them survive, you know, so they don't die. 689 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,720 And then the second one is we take Bibles in, encourage and pray for people. 690 00:36:53,720 --> 00:37:01,540 And the third, we're trying to develop that now where it's trying to impart the kingdom 691 00:37:01,540 --> 00:37:05,920 of God is here, you know, you're in the jungle, you've got nothing but God's with you. 692 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,760 And get these guys, pray for the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and see the kingdom 693 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,840 of God manifest in that terrible situation. 694 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:15,840 Yeah. 695 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,960 And I think his spirit and his grace would be stronger in there than anywhere else. 696 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,720 So that's beautiful. 697 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:31,720 With that, if there are people watching this and they are drawn to that, I need to help. 698 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:33,600 God has put it on my heart to help. 699 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:39,120 What's the way that, is there a website, a number, an email address or whatever? 700 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,080 Yes, we can put that up and people can donate. 701 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,400 And there's tax deductibility status. 702 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:46,400 Awesome. 703 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,400 Yeah, or just regular. 704 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,400 Yeah, I see. 705 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,400 Yeah, anything, everything helps. 706 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,400 Yeah, absolutely. 707 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,400 Every little thing helps. 708 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,400 Yeah, yeah. 709 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,400 Yeah. 710 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,760 And every prayer makes a difference. 711 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:55,760 Yeah. 712 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,560 So guys, if you're watching, wait till the end, we'll put all that up. 713 00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:59,560 It'll be on your screen. 714 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,560 You can put it up now. 715 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,560 Yeah, it's up there. 716 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,560 It's up there. 717 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,560 If you can see it. 718 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:09,640 But we will have that on the comment section or it would be on the description of the video. 719 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:10,640 Yeah, we'll have it. 720 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:18,200 If you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, you can definitely go up to YouTube 721 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,160 and get these information from there. 722 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,160 Yeah, for sure. 723 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:28,960 But with that, I'd like to ask you a last question before we close, because unfortunately, 724 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,880 you've given us your time and I know you're such a busy man. 725 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,840 Being here has been such a true blessing for us. 726 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,840 For sure. 727 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,240 We planned on doing this maybe two or three weeks ago, but unfortunately, we couldn't 728 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,120 go ahead with the podcast, but we're so glad you are here now. 729 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,120 Thank you. 730 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:53,880 So I just want to know, because it's so important to raise next generation of leaders. 731 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,240 And we've seen that also as a challenge within our church. 732 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:04,280 It's something God's also been putting in many people's heart. 733 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,880 Having that next generation of leaders. 734 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:13,200 I would like to know what your organization or you personally do to raise these next generation 735 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,640 of leaders in either China or Thailand. 736 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:19,840 How does that happen? 737 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,240 I'm very keen to know. 738 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,680 Well, it's very organic. 739 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,280 Where God just connects us with people. 740 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,480 And to me, it's all about the one. 741 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,480 Yeah. 742 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,480 It's all about the one. 743 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,360 A lot of us look for the crowds. 744 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:42,120 And God's been teaching me that example. 745 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,400 When we were in China, I was walking around our neighborhood, just walking our dog. 746 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,800 And I saw something that was amazing. 747 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,000 It was like a miracle. 748 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,840 It was a Victory 1700cc twin motorcycle. 749 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,320 And I love motorbikes. 750 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,280 And I thought, wow, because where I live, you don't see that sort of stuff. 751 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,720 So I knocked on the door of a house, that the bike was outside, no one home. 752 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,760 A few days later, I'm walking past, I see the bike again, knock on the door, no one 753 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,840 home. 754 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,600 So then I started walking away and this car pulls up and a young man gets out. 755 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,040 And I'd seen him around, but I didn't know him. 756 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,120 Young Chinese man. 757 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,360 And then I said, hey, is this your motorcycle? 758 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,360 Yeah, we just got talking. 759 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,360 His name is Ben. 760 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,240 And anyway, he'd come over to my place for coffee and we go for a motorbike ride and 761 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,120 we're just making friendships. 762 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,640 And then finally, he says, Ross, what do you do here? 763 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,920 Which is kind of a dangerous question to answer when you're in China, because you don't know 764 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:41,920 who people are. 765 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,320 Anyway, I just said, well, we're here. 766 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,320 We're trying to make a difference. 767 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,960 We've got a community center. 768 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,160 We help the migrant families that come from the provinces into the city. 769 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,600 We have children's programs. 770 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,280 He said, I'd like to see that. 771 00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,440 And one day we went and had a look at it and he was just blown away that what we were doing, 772 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,360 the slum area that was so horrible that wasn't really that far from where he was living. 773 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,360 Yeah. 774 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,360 But he wasn't even aware of it. 775 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:08,360 You know, oh, wow. 776 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,360 Yeah. 777 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,960 And and saw what we were doing and donated like books to our little library we had there 778 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:14,960 for the kids. 779 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,040 And every time we had a community day, he'd be there with drinks and snacks and all that 780 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,440 sort of thing. 781 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,480 And we haven't spoken about the gospel at all at this point. 782 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,040 And at that time, we were bringing Australian worship bands into China and doing kind of 783 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,480 semi secular events here and there. 784 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:33,480 But there was one we were doing. 785 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,680 It was more of a closed thing in a big reception room. 786 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:36,680 That was actual outreach. 787 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:37,680 Yeah. 788 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,440 So I said, Ben, would you like to come and hear the band? 789 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,680 He came along, loved it, you know. 790 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,400 And then a few weeks later, I said, Ben, I felt I could trust him by now. 791 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,880 I'm preaching at an underground church next week. 792 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:49,880 Would you like to come? 793 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:50,880 He said, yeah, I'll come. 794 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,880 So he came. 795 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:58,080 I gave the appeal and raised his hand, received Christ, baptized him in water and discipled 796 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:06,120 him and just now an amazing leader, amazing man of God, leading groups and seeing people 797 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,120 saved. 798 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,400 And I said to him, just as we're leaving, I said, Ben, if the only thing I achieved 799 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:19,120 here was to see you come to Christ and become the leader you are, 20 years, it's worth it. 800 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,120 Yeah, 100%. 801 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,440 That's the future of China. 802 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,000 To me, it's about the one that can make the difference to so many. 803 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,440 And the qualities you look for in people are so important because not everybody can be 804 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,560 a leader or wants to be. 805 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:38,560 That's amazing. 806 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,960 That's such an encouragement to me as well. 807 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:50,600 Not having to have a massive group or whatever, but to find that quality in maybe even just 808 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:51,600 one. 809 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,600 Yes. 810 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:53,600 Yeah. 811 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:54,760 It brings everything back to perspective. 812 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,760 Jesus could have had millions. 813 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:56,760 Yeah. 814 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:57,760 He chose to have. 815 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:58,760 Yes. 816 00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:59,760 Yeah. 817 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,760 So thank you. 818 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,760 That's incredible. 819 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,760 That's incredible story. 820 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,240 Well, thank you, Ross, for being in the show. 821 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:11,040 It's great to hear that and towards the end, that was also something that's... 822 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:20,120 I really, whoever Ben is, I pray that whatever he's doing, I know Lord's happy with his work, 823 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,200 but just that protection over him and we'll be praying for Ben. 824 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,200 Yeah, sure. 825 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,320 And to our viewers too, keep Ben in prayer. 826 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,320 But thank you again for coming. 827 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,320 My pleasure. 828 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,320 Thank you so much. 829 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,600 Towards the end of the show, what we really like to do is for you to spend some time, 830 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,880 or you can look at the camera or you can talk to us, but yeah, just to tell our viewers 831 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:48,160 what's in your heart and just something for our viewers to take home with them or already 832 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,160 home. 833 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,160 Yeah. 834 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:56,160 Just to take out of the show and we like to end with you praying for our show and praying 835 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,160 for our viewers too. 836 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,160 That would be great. 837 00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,160 Thank you. 838 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:00,160 Yeah. 839 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,280 Well, I would just like to exhort people, never give up. 840 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:07,480 Never give up serving God. 841 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,560 Never, when things are tough, like for me, I've been on the people that are saying to 842 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:18,360 me, Bryce, you're 71, you've been on the field 41 years, you've now got stage four 843 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,560 esophageal cancer and the doctors are saying they can't help you with anything and you're 844 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:23,800 going back to the field. 845 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,480 And why don't you just put your feet up? 846 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,120 And there's a couple of reasons. 847 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:35,440 One I say, well, the job is what you get paid for, the calling is what you're made for. 848 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,520 And I'm made to be a missionary. 849 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,800 Now, I don't use that term outside of church circles because people don't really understand 850 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:44,800 what that means. 851 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,280 I say I'm a hope dealer. 852 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:55,600 But the other reason is why this old war horse is still on the field is I'm waiting for young 853 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:00,480 people and older people of this generation to put their hand up and say, here are my 854 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:08,760 Lord, send me wherever, however, whatever, I want to be obedient and I want to be the 855 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,560 one that you can use. 856 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:18,880 Because we need a whole generation of just very ordinary people to go to be sown into 857 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,680 the nations as seed to make a difference, to do what God's called them to do. 858 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,640 So that's my passion to see that happen. 859 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:28,640 Amazing. 860 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,640 Amazing. 861 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,520 Well, thank you so much, Ross. 862 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:37,240 If you would like to pray for us, we would love to show. 863 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:38,240 Thank you, Lord. 864 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,680 You are the Lord of the harvest. 865 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:40,680 Hallelujah. 866 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,920 We thank you for your grace, your mercy, your peace that is given to us in abundance, Lord. 867 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:51,080 Thank you, Lord, that you've saved us and you've called us for purpose and meaning, 868 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,080 Lord. 869 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,500 Help us to find that Lord in you, Lord. 870 00:45:54,500 --> 00:46:03,640 Not just personal fulfillment, but Lord, meaning that aligns with your kingdom directives in 871 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,300 our lives, Lord. 872 00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:10,120 Use us all, Lord, to make a difference, to be salt and light and to change this world 873 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,720 that the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our God. 874 00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:15,720 Yes. 875 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:21,160 Place our lives, our future, our testimony into your hands to do with us whatever you 876 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:27,920 would do to bring about your glory and bring about the kingdom expansion through the earth. 877 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,680 In Jesus' name we pray. 878 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,680 Amen. 879 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,680 Amen. 880 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:32,680 Amen. 881 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,880 Can I just say we've had a lot of amazing guests on this show. 882 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:41,240 We've had so many great times doing podcasts, but this one's really hit home for me. 883 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:42,240 So thank you. 884 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,240 Yeah. 885 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:44,240 I bless you. 886 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:45,240 Thanks. 887 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:46,240 Thanks for having me. 888 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:47,480 Thanks for the opportunity to share with your wonderful audience. 889 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:48,480 God bless you all. 890 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,480 Thank you. 891 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:55,120 Thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of Real Talk Friday. 892 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,640 That was Ross Winchester here. 893 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:06,000 We're so glad that he could come to this show and doing what he's doing with the battle, 894 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,440 health battle, physical battle that you're going through right now. 895 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,800 It's a true inspiration to me and to a lot of people that are watching this. 896 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,880 We thank you and thank you for being in the show. 897 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:18,880 Thank you. 898 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,880 You're welcome. 899 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:20,880 Thank you. 900 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,640 It's great and I feel like God's going to take you so far and there's healing and everything 901 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,960 because through you there's going to be so many people changed and I know it. 902 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,920 And that's something that God's telling me to tell you that. 903 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,200 You're going to change a lot of things and the battle that you're going through of health 904 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:47,240 is just, you know, the devil's not happy and he tries to put you down, but God's powerful 905 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:48,240 more than anything else. 906 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:53,960 I know you've heard that, but I just want to reassure you that he's got to and there's 907 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,120 nothing that can pull you down. 908 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,360 There's no weapon formed against me. 909 00:47:58,360 --> 00:47:59,360 No prospect. 910 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,360 No prospect. 911 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,360 Yeah. 912 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,120 But with that, thank you for joining us and we'll see you in another episode of Real Talk 913 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:05,120 Friday. 914 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,260 God bless you. 915 00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:13,000 As we conclude our episode of Real Talk Friday, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all our 916 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,300 listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey. 917 00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:18,240 But our journey doesn't end here. 918 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:24,120 Join us every Friday as we continue to uncover the real stories of real people where authenticity 919 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,040 intersects with spirituality in profound ways. 920 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,200 Together we'll navigate the complexities of life, finding inspiration and hope in the 921 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,600 remarkable narratives shared within the walls of Logan City Christian Church. 922 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,560 Thank you for tuning in and until next time, may your faith journey be filled with grace, 923 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,440 understanding and the unwavering presence of God. 924 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:56,600 Stay tuned for more Real Talk every Friday on Real Talk Friday.