WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:10.220 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:13.859 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.100 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.820 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.120 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.039 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.359 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.560 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:40.340 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:43.340 to another episode. I'm Sheila Slick, your host. 00:00:43.539 --> 00:00:48.119 And today, my special guest is Jake Wysocki. 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:53.079 Jake has trained hundreds in workshop facilitations 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.240 at Fortune 200 companies, and then he left to 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.899 bring that same methodology to the world of coaching. 00:01:01.140 --> 00:01:05.159 He now runs IntentionCraft, where he builds five 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:08.000 -star group coaching programs for established 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:11.920 experts. Welcome to the show, Jake. Thanks for 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:14.840 having me, Sheila. Great to be here. Well, I 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.159 normally love to start learning about why you 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.079 started Intention Craft. What was that moment, 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.659 that pivotal moment that led you to do what you're 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:28.700 doing today? Yeah. So for me, the biggest moment 00:01:28.700 --> 00:01:31.659 that really led to that was probably the most 00:01:31.659 --> 00:01:34.900 like salient moment was a conversation with my 00:01:34.900 --> 00:01:37.579 wife. So I've been talking in general terms for 00:01:37.579 --> 00:01:39.780 a few years. I really loved my job. We can get 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:41.739 into that if it's relevant before I quit. But 00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:43.340 I've been talking about I'll do my own thing 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:47.000 at some point. And she. Asked me one summer, 00:01:47.099 --> 00:01:49.540 I think it was 2023. We were just, we both were 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:52.140 from home and I was popped upstairs to chat with 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:53.700 her about something. She said, so when are you 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:56.439 going to do that? I said, oh, I don't know. Sometime 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:58.560 in the next few years, the same standard answer. 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:01.599 And thankfully she pressed me on it. She said, 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.219 okay, you've been saying that for a few years. 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:04.799 So are you just going to keep saying that for 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:06.900 a few years or are you actually going to do something 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.240 about it? I said, well, why aren't, why not now? 00:02:09.580 --> 00:02:12.340 like why not just do that like this year i said 00:02:12.340 --> 00:02:15.719 well i don't know money i love my job i don't 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:17.800 really want to change she's like okay are those 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:19.840 real reasons like go check the money thing that's 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.719 not the real reason like we can live off of my 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:23.699 salary for now and you can figure it out that 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:26.960 was the that was the case and it ultimately we 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.259 determined there is no reason not to do it now 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:32.080 so that's when i gave my three months notice 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.680 in october of 2023 and then i left the beginning 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:39.009 of 2024. So, of course, you left me with a cliffhanger. 00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:42.710 What were you doing? Yeah. So I was working for 00:02:42.710 --> 00:02:44.270 a big fortune turning company, like you mentioned 00:02:44.270 --> 00:02:47.610 at the top, helping train people within my large 00:02:47.610 --> 00:02:49.169 company, not my large company, the company I 00:02:49.169 --> 00:02:51.909 worked for, how to train them on how to do design 00:02:51.909 --> 00:02:56.590 thinking from a primarily like a building organizational 00:02:56.590 --> 00:02:59.430 capability perspective, if you will. And what 00:02:59.430 --> 00:03:02.330 that looked like was our primary offer. I talk 00:03:02.330 --> 00:03:04.530 about it now as an entrepreneur, as an offer, 00:03:04.610 --> 00:03:06.210 but that's not obviously how we thought about 00:03:06.210 --> 00:03:08.789 it in the corporate world. But the primary offer 00:03:08.789 --> 00:03:11.629 that we had was a 12 -hour training that was 00:03:11.629 --> 00:03:13.870 about design thinking basics. And I'll explain 00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:15.330 what design thinking is in a second as well. 00:03:16.490 --> 00:03:19.050 Over one week, so three hours, four days in a 00:03:19.050 --> 00:03:23.669 row, all virtual or usually virtual with 24 people. 00:03:23.689 --> 00:03:28.259 And we delivered. 12 to 16 of those as a team 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:30.080 throughout the year. We did other things too, 00:03:30.139 --> 00:03:31.520 but that was like the main thing that was kind 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.419 of like our flagship, if you will. And so let 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:35.840 me talk about design thinking for a second, because 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:37.800 people may say, I don't know what that even means. 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.199 Design thinking, I describe it as it's a capital 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.740 D designer, like someone who went to school for 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:45.360 capital D design, but you're using their mindset 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.460 and their toolkit by typically non... capital 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:51.080 d designers who didn't go to school for design 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.780 so the mindset would be human centric is like 00:03:53.780 --> 00:03:56.240 the simple way to describe that like think about 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.819 who is using the actual product you're making 00:03:58.819 --> 00:04:01.319 the process you're developing that whatever you're 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.439 doing there's humans involved somewhere think 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:05.900 about them and that's what you should be focusing 00:04:05.900 --> 00:04:07.620 your efforts on not just how do we actually make 00:04:07.620 --> 00:04:09.580 this happen but why are we trying to make it 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:12.219 happen why do they care things like that And 00:04:12.219 --> 00:04:16.360 then the toolkit is often personified by like 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:18.860 sticky notes, but it doesn't have to be. It's 00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:21.060 more structured exercises in general. Sticky 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:22.439 notes are a great way to do that, but it can 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:24.860 be any kind of structured exercise. And what 00:04:24.860 --> 00:04:27.420 I love about this is it really combines my... 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:29.480 I'm an engineer by schooling, at least. I have 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:31.379 an engineering degree, though I never was like 00:04:31.379 --> 00:04:35.829 a... actual engineer but that process side mixed 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:38.310 with the human side is what I love about design 00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:40.329 thinking so that kind of is a little bit of the 00:04:40.329 --> 00:04:41.990 background happy to pull any other threads if 00:04:41.990 --> 00:04:44.610 you got them and that's what you're doing today 00:04:44.610 --> 00:04:48.439 with your coaching programs Yeah. So actually, 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:50.720 I can fill in a few more beats here. The first 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:53.379 thing I wanted to do that I started doing when 00:04:53.379 --> 00:04:55.500 I first quit for about the first nine months, 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.379 and then I pivoted to what I'm doing now, was 00:04:57.379 --> 00:04:59.860 helping millennial parents live regret -free 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:02.259 through workshops that I had designed for my 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:04.639 wife and I to use to figure out things kind of 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:06.540 like, you should quit your job. Now, that decision 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:08.319 didn't come through one of those state of the 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.310 unions is what we call them. But bigger picture 00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:13.930 thinking is what we use those for three times 00:05:13.930 --> 00:05:16.629 a year. We have like a half day that we just 00:05:16.629 --> 00:05:19.579 do ourselves. And we talk through. Again, big 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:21.639 picture things. Quadrant two, if you're familiar 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:23.720 with like Stephen Covey thinking, like those 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:25.879 big things that are hard to find time for in 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.160 the day to day, but can really make a big impact. 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:31.040 And I thought to myself, I love my friends. And 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:32.540 if anyone's out there listening, I love you guys, 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:34.839 but they could use just a little more intention 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:38.420 with their life. And I want to help people do 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:41.060 that. And so I started on that path, started 00:05:41.060 --> 00:05:43.300 to get a little bit of traction. But the next 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:45.000 kind of milestone that pivoted me to what I'm 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:47.240 doing now is I met a few people along the way 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:50.980 at Craft and Commerce, which is Kit's in -person 00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:52.980 event, which is really great. It's a whole nother 00:05:52.980 --> 00:05:54.519 topic. I could talk about that all day. Really 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:56.980 love that event. But I met a few people who knew 00:05:56.980 --> 00:05:58.759 my background and they said, Jake, I'm freaking 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.129 out. I have a... I committed to doing some in 00:06:02.129 --> 00:06:04.569 -person coaching for some of my clients and I 00:06:04.569 --> 00:06:05.829 don't know what to do. Can you just help me? 00:06:06.050 --> 00:06:08.310 And so I ended up helping them. I had notes everywhere. 00:06:08.410 --> 00:06:10.310 I was really loving it. And I realized I really 00:06:10.310 --> 00:06:12.610 miss doing this. And that's ultimately the main 00:06:12.610 --> 00:06:14.449 kernel that kind of pivoted me back to what I'm 00:06:14.449 --> 00:06:17.089 doing now. So to kind of put a bow on that, what 00:06:17.089 --> 00:06:19.430 I do now is I, what I do now now is actually 00:06:19.430 --> 00:06:22.290 build group coaching programs for people who 00:06:22.290 --> 00:06:23.889 have a lot of expertise, but don't know how, 00:06:23.949 --> 00:06:26.129 or don't want to spend the time actually structuring 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:28.370 and developing a program to help people transform 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:31.259 in some way. And it's all using that design thinking 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:34.339 methodology and kind of mindset and facilitation 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:36.980 skills and all those sorts of things. So what 00:06:36.980 --> 00:06:40.480 I'm loving about your story is how you've been 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:45.560 pivoting. Seems like you experimented and touched 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.480 a pain point that as a millennial parent, you're 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:52.600 looking for that balance and you're looking to 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:56.500 live that life regret free. Now you've got me 00:06:56.500 --> 00:07:01.860 thinking. am i living regret free yeah i mean 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:05.800 it is it is so true and and uh if i can um take 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:07.779 a detour here for just a second because it is 00:07:07.779 --> 00:07:10.279 a big part of why like so i called my company 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.259 intention craft and it still applies to what 00:07:12.259 --> 00:07:14.980 i do because i've kept coming back to throughout 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:16.899 my life like let's just be intentional like what 00:07:16.899 --> 00:07:18.920 are we actually trying to do here and that's 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:20.899 why i like this zooming out time and so like 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:23.860 the the kid thing is um absolutely true so i 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:25.699 have at the time of this recording a five -year 00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:29.019 -old and an eight -year -old and if i stop and 00:07:29.019 --> 00:07:30.420 think about it my eight -year -old is already 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:33.860 basically halfway done with their time that they're 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:36.259 going to spend with me. And that may be even 00:07:36.259 --> 00:07:38.139 like a little optimistic because I'm assuming 00:07:38.139 --> 00:07:40.560 when they become teenagers, they're going to 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:42.019 start wanting to spend more and more time with 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:43.740 their friends and less time with dad, even though 00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:45.259 they're going to want to spend time with me, 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:47.519 hopefully. Right. I think I'm laying a good foundation, 00:07:47.620 --> 00:07:50.180 but like it really puts in a stark contrast. 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:52.189 Like what are we actually doing here? everybody. 00:07:52.269 --> 00:07:54.009 Like, what are we, like, what are we doing? And 00:07:54.009 --> 00:07:56.149 so that tied in with one of the decisions. I 00:07:56.149 --> 00:07:59.670 quit my job without doing a side hustle. So I 00:07:59.670 --> 00:08:01.550 made the decision. I didn't want to take extra 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:03.990 time in the evenings or in the weekend away from 00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:06.250 my kids. And I didn't feel good because I really 00:08:06.250 --> 00:08:08.329 loved my job. Maybe if I was like bitter about 00:08:08.329 --> 00:08:10.310 my job, I might've not cared so much to work 00:08:10.310 --> 00:08:12.350 during like regular work hours, but I didn't 00:08:12.350 --> 00:08:14.399 want to do that. And so that was part of the 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.420 decision. It's like, well, what is like truly 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:19.399 important? And the regret -free thing, I didn't 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:20.980 mention this and I'm happy to dig into this if 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:22.920 you want, but I love any opportunity I can mention 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.500 this. I'd love to mention it. In 2015, after 00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:27.120 my wife and I got married, we actually quit our 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.199 jobs to travel for a year. And the decision factor 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.779 there was literally, we asked ourself the question, 00:08:34.100 --> 00:08:36.360 will we regret not doing this? We were looking 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.159 at doing just like a month off, which at the 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.080 time was also like huge because we were both 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:41.720 in corporate America and that's like a ton of 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.120 time off. And we said, we have an opportunity. 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:48.000 Will we regret it? The answer was, yeah, I think 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.480 we'll look back and we'll regret it. So it's 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.179 really hard to kind of project into the future. 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.100 But, you know, you make some assumptions and 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:55.960 then you figure out what decisions now will hopefully 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:59.779 lead to living regret free. Brief, brief, brief 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:01.659 aside from an entrepreneurial perspective, by 00:09:01.659 --> 00:09:04.049 the way. trying to sell something that is about 00:09:04.049 --> 00:09:05.950 living regret -free is really difficult because 00:09:05.950 --> 00:09:09.049 that is such a long timeframe to literally have 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:12.690 my promise of, I will help you as a millennial 00:09:12.690 --> 00:09:15.169 parent live regret -free. You have to be on your 00:09:15.169 --> 00:09:17.070 deathbed looking back and say, oh yeah, Jake 00:09:17.070 --> 00:09:19.129 did actually help me live regret -free. So that 00:09:19.129 --> 00:09:21.470 was a little bit of a big scope, but the message 00:09:21.470 --> 00:09:23.730 still came through, I think. But anyway, I digress. 00:09:25.909 --> 00:09:27.990 Can I jump on something you just mentioned that 00:09:27.990 --> 00:09:31.190 actually will help us pivot? I'm happy to follow 00:09:31.190 --> 00:09:32.690 you wherever, but you were mentioning intention 00:09:32.690 --> 00:09:35.690 craft and you said perfection. And this is a 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:39.490 big thing. I actually did some work on, I guess, 00:09:39.490 --> 00:09:41.389 what would be called like my premise, if you 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:44.269 will. I was working with another guy I met along 00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:48.559 the way on my journey. I came as I'm working 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.120 through my thoughts on perfection. This is something 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.039 I see with a lot of people who try to build programs. 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.460 They are worried that it's not good enough and 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:57.320 they try to build everything and they're trying 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:58.960 to make everything perfect. Like, please don't 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:01.000 do that. We can talk tactics and some of my recommendations 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:04.460 there. We can go deeper on that. But what I realized 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:07.659 in talking through this was my view is perfection 00:10:07.659 --> 00:10:10.559 is, I think a lot of people know this or will 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.519 certainly agree with this, but perfection should 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.210 never be the goal. But I think excellence. is 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:16.850 the goal and those two things are different because 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:20.190 perfection implies that there is a point that 00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:22.690 you can stop and you're saying this is like i've 00:10:22.690 --> 00:10:24.889 reached the pinnacle or whatever and i don't 00:10:24.889 --> 00:10:27.029 believe that in general with most things i'm 00:10:27.029 --> 00:10:28.730 sure there's a few exceptions that maybe prove 00:10:28.730 --> 00:10:31.519 the rule But excellence, I like the framing of 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.120 excellence because it's not about getting it 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.200 right. It's about caring enough to keep making 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.360 it better. And that's how I've been thinking 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.139 about it and trying to teach people. You don't 00:10:39.139 --> 00:10:40.740 have to start perfect, just like you were talking 00:10:40.740 --> 00:10:42.659 about, but it'll continue to get better and better 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:44.200 and better and it will be excellent. And that's 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:45.500 what you need. You don't need perfection. You 00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:47.779 need excellence. So anyway, that's like one of 00:10:47.779 --> 00:10:50.139 my recent soapboxes that I've had on my mind 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:54.220 lately. So you named your company Intention Craft. 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:57.370 What's the meaning behind your name? Yeah. So 00:10:57.370 --> 00:11:00.350 I'll share a little bit. There's a book and also 00:11:00.350 --> 00:11:02.789 a TV show called His Dark Materials, or it's 00:11:02.789 --> 00:11:04.730 a series of books, actually. The Golden Compass 00:11:04.730 --> 00:11:08.490 is probably the most known of those. And there's 00:11:08.490 --> 00:11:11.289 an HBO show that we were watching at the time 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:13.750 when we were talking about this idea. And I love 00:11:13.750 --> 00:11:15.929 this concept of being intentional. And there's 00:11:15.929 --> 00:11:18.389 a physical machine called an intention craft. 00:11:18.490 --> 00:11:20.169 You think and it will take you there, basically. 00:11:20.549 --> 00:11:23.110 And we're like, oh, that's interesting. Intention, 00:11:23.169 --> 00:11:24.730 like that obviously stuck out like a lightning 00:11:24.730 --> 00:11:26.879 rod. Because intention's always been important. 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.340 And craft in that sense was more about like the 00:11:30.340 --> 00:11:34.539 craft, like the vehicle, the craft. But I love 00:11:34.539 --> 00:11:37.360 this concept of craft because it implies that 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.779 it's also something you're building that you 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:43.460 can, there can be, like craft to me evokes like 00:11:43.460 --> 00:11:46.500 woodworking and things like that, where yes, 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:48.940 there is art, but there's also technique and 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:51.080 there's better ways to do it. There's established 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:55.759 ways to make your woodworking. a certain way 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.740 and there's certain like patterns you can follow 00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:00.639 and there's an artistry to it but intention of 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:02.220 just being intentional in general thinking about 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:03.799 where you want to go before you try to go there 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:05.799 even if you don't end up exactly where you want 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:07.580 to go intention has been really important then 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:09.980 the craft piece is it's not all art there is 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:12.200 technique but there's also a mix of art and technique 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:14.120 so that's kind of why that resonated with me 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.580 besides the lightning bolt of the idea specifically 00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:18.940 from that show i mentioned so there you go there's 00:12:18.940 --> 00:12:23.350 my story What one key piece of advice would you 00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:26.230 give to someone that's listening to this episode 00:12:26.230 --> 00:12:30.110 today that perhaps is in that situation that 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:33.990 you were, comfortable, complacent, and whether 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:36.789 or not they leave their job, they had that vision 00:12:36.789 --> 00:12:41.269 or that desire to try something new and be intentional 00:12:41.269 --> 00:12:46.669 about it? I love that. Okay, so for me, the biggest 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:48.769 thing that probably comes to my mind is like 00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:53.149 a... core tenet of design thinking and it applies 00:12:53.149 --> 00:12:55.509 to lots of things. And it's, if you are curious 00:12:55.509 --> 00:12:58.309 about something, find some way to go test that 00:12:58.309 --> 00:13:02.649 idea. Now, I tested my idea when I left just 00:13:02.649 --> 00:13:04.690 to draw a line because my wife and I had been 00:13:04.690 --> 00:13:07.889 doing these state unions ourself and I knew it 00:13:07.889 --> 00:13:10.889 worked for us. That was the test for me. But 00:13:10.889 --> 00:13:12.950 whatever it is for you, think about how can I 00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:15.149 go try that? And there's a book I read recently 00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:18.519 from Jim Collins, who's most famous for... good 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:20.480 to great. But there's another one of his books 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.960 called Great by Choice. I believe that's the 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.360 one. And he talks about firing bullets before 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.940 cannonballs. And the metaphor here, which I think 00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:31.700 will be really useful, is imagine you're on an 00:13:31.700 --> 00:13:34.539 old -timey ship or whatever on the sea, like 00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:37.580 a wooden ship, and you have only so much gunpowder 00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:41.000 to fire a cannonball and a little bit of extra, 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.440 but you can't fire multiple cannonballs. So you're 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:45.019 going to have to be really lucky to hit that 00:13:45.019 --> 00:13:47.419 ship you're trying to sink. with a cannonball 00:13:47.419 --> 00:13:49.840 the better way to do it is to fire a few bullets 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:51.820 to see if you hit that if you're on the right 00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.879 trajectory and then then you can aim and then 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:55.740 you're much more likely to actually be successful 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:57.639 at whatever you're trying to accomplish so the 00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:01.139 metaphor here is the the bullets are low risk 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.840 uh low effort and there might have been a third 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.759 thing but those are the two big ones for me is 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:08.720 like how can i try this in a way that doesn't 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.240 take a ton of time starts to get me some some 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.600 idea of am i on track before you go all in so 00:14:15.049 --> 00:14:16.210 And that will give you a lot of information. 00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:18.549 Do I like this? Does anybody care about this? 00:14:18.850 --> 00:14:20.669 Things like that. We could talk tactics, tactics, 00:14:20.730 --> 00:14:23.250 like entrepreneurial stuff, but that's kind of 00:14:23.250 --> 00:14:26.269 the core concept. So that's what I'll share on 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:29.110 that front. So where can we connect with you 00:14:29.110 --> 00:14:32.789 online? Yeah, definitely. So if you're interested 00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:34.830 in seeing more about what I do or getting a start 00:14:34.830 --> 00:14:37.779 on what that. core of a program or a workshop 00:14:37.779 --> 00:14:40.940 might be, you can actually go to workshopy .com 00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:44.179 and you can get a workbook and you can actually 00:14:44.179 --> 00:14:45.720 schedule time with me if you want to talk through 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:47.659 any kind of group experience you want to design. 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.440 I'm happy to help give you my advice. That's 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.919 workshopy .com. Well, thank you so much for joining 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.279 me today, Jake. Thanks for having me, Sheila. 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.559 And thank you all for tuning in to another episode. 00:14:58.740 --> 00:14:59.700 Until next time.