WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:10.199 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.859 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.100 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.800 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.120 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.039 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.379 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.379 --> 00:00:33.560 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:40.219 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:43.859 to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:46.140 and Leadership. I'm Sheila Slick, your host. 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:49.799 And today, my special guest is Gwen Bortner. 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:52.979 She is an operational strategist and business 00:00:52.979 --> 00:00:56.340 advisor with over four decades of experience 00:00:56.340 --> 00:01:02.609 and more than Not one, not two, not three, but 00:01:02.609 --> 00:01:07.590 more than 47 industries. And she helps founders 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:10.829 succeed in business without sacrificing happiness 00:01:10.829 --> 00:01:14.849 by identifying their true desires and aligning 00:01:14.849 --> 00:01:18.349 their business functions. And her approach comes 00:01:18.349 --> 00:01:21.010 from the belief that personal and professional 00:01:21.010 --> 00:01:24.390 success looks different for everyone and that 00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:27.890 most business owners waste time and energy trying 00:01:27.890 --> 00:01:31.409 to conform to outside expectations and definitions 00:01:31.409 --> 00:01:35.819 of success. Welcome to the show, Gwen. Sheila, 00:01:35.859 --> 00:01:37.879 thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.299 to be here. So I want to learn a little bit about 00:01:41.299 --> 00:01:44.719 your backstory and then get to understanding 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:48.560 how someone can work in 47 different industries. 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:52.019 That's mind blowing. Well, and so those two things 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:56.159 go together. I started out my career as a freelance 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.829 programmer. way, way, way long ago when a PC 00:01:59.829 --> 00:02:02.030 was a brand new thing. They weren't even calling 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:05.069 it a PC. It was still a personal computer. And 00:02:05.069 --> 00:02:09.069 as in doing so, that gave me opportunity to jump 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:12.969 into lots of different industries to help them 00:02:12.969 --> 00:02:17.610 solve their problem. And and so I did that for 00:02:17.610 --> 00:02:21.110 many, many years, probably, oh, probably close 00:02:21.110 --> 00:02:25.169 to 10 years before I ended up leading an IT department. 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.419 And then took several other, you know, jaunts 00:02:28.419 --> 00:02:30.960 and turns. And in the last 10 years, I've also 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.740 been working with lots of different industries. 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:37.879 But part of my career, most of my career has 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:41.500 been working as a consultant for other businesses 00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:44.120 and industries. And because of the type of work 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.879 I would do, I would have to get involved and 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.340 deep into their information. And so a number 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.560 of years ago, I was working with a coach and 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.780 his question, he was like, so you've worked with 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:56.259 a lot of industries? I'm like, yeah. And he's 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:58.439 like, like 10? And I'm like, oh yeah, way more 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:00.139 than 10. Like I can name off 10 without even 00:03:00.139 --> 00:03:03.000 trying. And he's like, more than 20? And it's 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.159 like, probably. And he's like, okay, your homework 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.800 is to list them out. And so that's what I did. 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.860 I listed them out and I came up with 47 different 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.620 industries that I've had some amount of knowledge 00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:19.300 and experience with. over my 40 plus year career. 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.340 So today your specialization is consulting. You're 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:27.879 not doing tech work. You're doing... I'm not 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:31.639 doing tech work, no. I focus now today in what 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.319 I call business advisory. And for me, business 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:38.919 advisory is looking at the whole business. So 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.379 I'm not, you know, I do look at... tech, but 00:03:42.379 --> 00:03:45.599 that is not my primary focus. I also look at 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:50.219 finance. I look at HR. I look at systems. I look 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:53.060 at leadership. I look at planning. I look at 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:57.039 all of those things as a kind of like an advisory 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.419 board, but like an advisory board of one. How 00:03:59.419 --> 00:04:03.919 can someone make the mindset shift to go from 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:08.099 solo to CEO? I'm going to start with part of 00:04:08.099 --> 00:04:10.930 what was in my bio. That's not necessarily a 00:04:10.930 --> 00:04:13.569 shift that everybody needs to make. And that's 00:04:13.569 --> 00:04:15.449 one of the first things that when I work with 00:04:15.449 --> 00:04:18.740 clients, I really get focused on is. Is that 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:21.519 something that you actually want or has social 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.259 media convinced you that you're not a real business 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:28.699 if you're not a CEO? And so there always needs 00:04:28.699 --> 00:04:32.180 to be some CEO activities, even if you are a 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:34.899 solopreneur. But it's how much of that shift 00:04:34.899 --> 00:04:37.860 do you really need to make to be your definition 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:40.899 of success? But if you are wanting to make that 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:43.959 shift, one of the biggest mindset shifts you 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:49.110 have to be able to do is let go of. the how and 00:04:49.110 --> 00:04:53.529 focus on the outcome. And I think it's one of 00:04:53.529 --> 00:04:55.990 the biggest things that solopreneurs really struggle 00:04:55.990 --> 00:05:01.769 with as they move from solo to CEO is we're so 00:05:01.769 --> 00:05:04.790 used to having to do it all. We feel like the 00:05:04.790 --> 00:05:07.509 best way to do it, possibly the only way to do 00:05:07.509 --> 00:05:10.730 it, is the way that we do it, whatever that piece 00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:14.709 is. But as we're moving into a CEO role, we really 00:05:14.709 --> 00:05:18.430 need to be focused on what is the actual outcome 00:05:18.430 --> 00:05:21.629 that we need and be way less concerned about 00:05:21.629 --> 00:05:24.769 the path the other thing that we have to do is 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:27.750 realize that we've got to be able to verbalize 00:05:27.750 --> 00:05:33.009 our why why something is important to someone 00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:38.089 else because that why often will be part of the 00:05:38.089 --> 00:05:41.110 path but it may not be the absolute you know 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:44.490 step by step by step process of the path but 00:05:44.490 --> 00:05:48.220 understanding why this outcome matters, why we're 00:05:48.220 --> 00:05:51.199 trying to do this, why all of those things. And 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:54.680 as a solopreneur, it is so intuitive to us because 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.300 that's why we built our business. It's how we 00:05:57.300 --> 00:05:59.600 built our business. It's all of those things. 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:02.639 And so when we start there, it's like, well, 00:06:02.699 --> 00:06:05.120 I don't need to explain it because it's so obvious. 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:08.199 But the thing is, it's us, but it's not necessarily 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.939 obvious to the people we're working with. And 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:14.709 so being able to let go of the how. and really 00:06:14.709 --> 00:06:18.209 focus on the result and why that result matters 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:21.290 so that whoever else we're bringing in is able 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:24.670 to actually develop their own how that often, 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:27.290 if we actually let them do their job, is actually 00:06:27.290 --> 00:06:29.230 better than the way that we were doing it. Why 00:06:29.230 --> 00:06:32.810 do so many business owners end up what we could 00:06:32.810 --> 00:06:36.750 say is externally successful but stressed out 00:06:36.750 --> 00:06:41.029 internally? Well, I think this is back to we 00:06:41.029 --> 00:06:45.689 get caught. in not defining our own definition 00:06:45.689 --> 00:06:48.790 of success. This is, to me, that's the perfect 00:06:48.790 --> 00:06:56.029 example of a simple question, but a really hard 00:06:56.029 --> 00:06:59.629 question to answer. And when we say, you know, 00:06:59.629 --> 00:07:01.410 what is your definition of success? It's like, 00:07:01.490 --> 00:07:04.790 oh, and often as we start digging into whatever 00:07:04.790 --> 00:07:07.860 the answer is, it's like, But why is that actually 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:09.920 important to you? What does that actually mean 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:11.639 to you? As we start, you know, pulling off the 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.480 layers, you know, of the paint to get down to, 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.480 you know, the bare wood floor, we realize that 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:20.899 they don't actually know. What it is is because 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:23.779 someone said a million dollar business is what 00:07:23.779 --> 00:07:27.660 is a real successful business. Is it? Maybe. 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.379 But in some cases, a million dollar business 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:34.819 won't be successful for a person. But they were 00:07:34.819 --> 00:07:38.920 going after it. And often can achieve it. But 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:41.839 in that achieving, they have let go of their 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.259 own definition of success. And we were seeing 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:48.620 this a lot probably a year or two ago where people 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:51.660 had quietly burned down their business and weren't 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:53.819 talking about it. And then like a couple of years 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:55.420 ago, we're kind of coming out and talking about 00:07:55.420 --> 00:07:57.899 it. And this was exactly what it was. They had 00:07:57.899 --> 00:08:00.300 achieved outside success. I have a million dollar 00:08:00.300 --> 00:08:02.740 business. I have, you know, I have this, I have 00:08:02.740 --> 00:08:06.120 that. But what they also had with that business 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.100 were things that they didn't want. They had. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.759 mouths to feed in the form of payroll. They had 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:14.920 people they had to manage that maybe they didn't 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:16.620 actually want to be managing people. Maybe the 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.620 reason they left whatever their previous world 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:22.220 was to start entrepreneurship wasn't to manage 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:25.639 people. And so that means that the definition 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:29.519 has to be defined for you. About a year ago, 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:31.339 I was having a conversation with a woman who 00:08:31.339 --> 00:08:33.610 I... I said, the thing is, a lot of times people 00:08:33.610 --> 00:08:35.769 are like, if I achieve all of these things, then 00:08:35.769 --> 00:08:38.350 I will be able to, you know, fill in whatever 00:08:38.350 --> 00:08:41.450 blank. And I said, a classic is when I get to 00:08:41.450 --> 00:08:43.730 this certain level, then I will have the freedom 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:47.049 to do the things that I want to do, spend more 00:08:47.049 --> 00:08:49.809 time with my kids, you know, be able to have 00:08:49.809 --> 00:08:52.129 meals at home, you know, so on and so forth. 00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:55.669 But if you spend 20 years doing that, the kids 00:08:55.669 --> 00:08:59.070 aren't home anymore. Right. And as I said that, 00:08:59.129 --> 00:09:01.690 she started crying and she said, no, that's actually 00:09:01.690 --> 00:09:04.090 what happened to me. She said, my kids don't 00:09:04.090 --> 00:09:08.110 talk to me because I spent all of my time building 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:11.769 the career so that I could spend time with them. 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:14.990 But then I didn't spend time with them when they 00:09:14.990 --> 00:09:17.929 were there to spend time with. And so to me, 00:09:17.990 --> 00:09:20.250 that's this definition of success. We need to 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:24.480 know what actually matters right now. Make sure 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.559 that we're doing things that get us closer to 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.179 that right this minute. And maybe that means 00:09:30.179 --> 00:09:33.659 some of the other outside definitions of success 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:37.940 will have to wait. That was such an unexpected 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:41.379 answer, and it was so deep. You made my own heartbeat. 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.779 Yeah, it's a real question. Like I said, it's 00:09:44.779 --> 00:09:48.960 a simple question, but it is very hard to answer, 00:09:49.059 --> 00:09:53.529 and it takes a lot of time. And I always point 00:09:53.529 --> 00:09:54.990 that out because people are like, oh, yeah, no, 00:09:55.029 --> 00:09:57.090 I know what it means. And it's like, I bet you 00:09:57.090 --> 00:10:00.389 don't. And part of it is because it continues 00:10:00.389 --> 00:10:03.210 to shift depending on what's happening in your 00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:07.129 life. The definition of success when you have 00:10:07.129 --> 00:10:09.429 young children at home may be very different 00:10:09.429 --> 00:10:11.570 than the definition of success after they've 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:14.470 all gone off to college or even graduate. It 00:10:14.470 --> 00:10:17.889 shifts over time. It's not a one and done kind 00:10:17.889 --> 00:10:20.289 of answer. It's something we have to think about 00:10:20.289 --> 00:10:23.090 on an ongoing basis. So I'm going to confess 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:25.570 when I asked that question, and I don't know 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:27.610 if it's because it's engraved that you have your 00:10:27.610 --> 00:10:29.690 IT background. I thought you were going to say 00:10:29.690 --> 00:10:31.789 they don't have the proper systems in place and 00:10:31.789 --> 00:10:34.009 we were going to go down that route. So you really 00:10:34.009 --> 00:10:36.350 just caught me by surprise with your answer. 00:10:36.669 --> 00:10:38.929 Once we know what your definition of success 00:10:38.929 --> 00:10:41.529 is, then we can install the right systems for 00:10:41.529 --> 00:10:44.490 it. Well, let's move on to the next one. How 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:47.809 can someone break that burnout cycle if they're 00:10:47.809 --> 00:10:50.600 having one in their business? One of the first 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.899 things is to actually identify that you're having 00:10:52.899 --> 00:10:57.679 a burnout cycle and realizing that the only person 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:01.580 that can fix that is you. It's not an outside 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:04.360 system. It's not bringing in another VA. It's 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:06.600 not, you know, I mean, it's like we keep wanting 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.259 to like fix it from outside things, but it typically 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:14.519 is an inside problem. And the first question 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.620 goes back to the answer to the last question. 00:11:17.450 --> 00:11:20.190 Are you actually working toward the thing that 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:22.409 you want to be working toward? Are you working 00:11:22.409 --> 00:11:25.110 toward something that isn't actually inspiring, 00:11:25.429 --> 00:11:28.649 isn't actually aligned with what you're doing? 00:11:29.470 --> 00:11:32.129 Because being really successful at something, 00:11:32.389 --> 00:11:35.850 what's the phrase someone used? Winning a game 00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:38.730 you don't want to play isn't a win, right? And 00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:41.649 so that's part of it, is to make sure that the 00:11:41.649 --> 00:11:44.789 thing that you're winning at actually is the 00:11:44.789 --> 00:11:47.539 thing that you want to be. winning at. That's 00:11:47.539 --> 00:11:51.679 the first step. Once you realize that, then it's 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:55.539 to look at what actually needs to change so that 00:11:55.539 --> 00:11:59.419 you can reclaim your time and your energy. You 00:11:59.419 --> 00:12:01.279 know, as business owners, we get really focused 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.059 on the money because it's an easy thing to measure. 00:12:05.009 --> 00:12:07.970 You know, money is very, very tactical. We can 00:12:07.970 --> 00:12:10.289 absolutely know, you know, do you have $100 or 00:12:10.289 --> 00:12:13.509 do you have $1 ,000? It's very easy. Time we 00:12:13.509 --> 00:12:16.889 can kind of measure because we have these things, 00:12:16.950 --> 00:12:19.889 watches and whatnot. But time is kind of a weird 00:12:19.889 --> 00:12:22.629 construct anyway, but we kind of sort of measure 00:12:22.629 --> 00:12:25.970 it. But energy is the piece that we have a really 00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:29.100 hard time measuring. And it's, you know, physical 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:31.799 energy. It's mental energy. It's spiritual energy. 00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:35.259 It's all of those types of energy. And that's 00:12:35.259 --> 00:12:37.220 the place that we have to get really honest with 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:40.519 ourselves is, is our energy being used in the 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.639 right place? Because most of the time burnout 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:46.940 is about energy depletion. It's not usually about 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:49.220 money depletion. And it's not actually usually 00:12:49.220 --> 00:12:51.879 about time depletion. It feels like time depletion 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:54.289 because energy and time are kind of. closely 00:12:54.289 --> 00:12:57.549 related. But it's usually about energy depletion. 00:12:57.570 --> 00:13:02.169 Why is this draining me so much? Why am I not 00:13:02.169 --> 00:13:05.470 recharging? Because burnout really is about not 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:09.309 recharging at a proper level. And sometimes it 00:13:09.309 --> 00:13:11.230 is about time. I'm spending way too much time 00:13:11.230 --> 00:13:13.370 working and I'm not taking enough time to eat 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:15.970 properly, sleep properly, you know, do all of 00:13:15.970 --> 00:13:20.000 those things. But It often is not about time. 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.639 It's actually about I'm putting energy into things 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.580 that don't actually fuel me. And over time, my 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:30.500 gas tank just keeps getting lower. So we have 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:33.440 to be honest with ourselves. And it's not an 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.899 easy process. And often we need someone on the 00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:40.679 outside to help us diagnose it because the voice 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.840 in our head usually is not. as honest as we want 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.340 it to be. So now let's talk about the implementation 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:49.340 gap. What does that mean? The implementation 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:54.799 gap is where we're looking for X and we're at 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:59.059 Y. And how do we get from here to there? And 00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:04.399 so the implementation gap is to say. What needs 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.519 to change? How do we need to do things differently 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.360 and not just keep doing the same thing? It's 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.580 often also part of what I call root cause analysis 00:14:13.580 --> 00:14:17.639 of actually getting deeper. We're very good at 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.159 fixing issues that come up, but what we forget 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.500 is often this issue is actually because of a 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.460 deeper issue that's because of a deeper issue 00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:28.830 because of a deeper issue. And so that implementation 00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:31.850 gap is trying to get down to that root cause 00:14:31.850 --> 00:14:37.190 of the issue and saying, let's solve that and 00:14:37.190 --> 00:14:40.789 see how many of these others get solved as a 00:14:40.789 --> 00:14:45.529 result of that fix, whatever that fix happens 00:14:45.529 --> 00:14:49.610 to be. Sometimes it's about bringing in additional 00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:53.330 people, but sometimes it's about changing a system. 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.279 Sometimes it's about cutting out things that 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.539 maybe aren't actually valuable for you, your 00:14:59.539 --> 00:15:03.000 business, your customers. Often the implementation 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:08.179 gap is the space where we're trying to put things 00:15:08.179 --> 00:15:11.039 in and actually the trick for the implementation 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.500 gap is taking things out and having less in there 00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:19.200 instead of... instead of more in there. But functionally, 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.179 it really is about saying, what is that root 00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:23.399 cause that's going to get us from where we are 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.620 to where we actually want to be instead of just 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:29.360 continuing to put, you know, a Band -Aid on the 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:34.360 cut. So how can someone work with you? I actually 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.879 have three main programs that I offer, and they're 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.799 designed at different levels of business. All 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:43.860 of our programs are based on an accountability 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.240 process that we call the weekly course of action. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.820 And regardless of how you work with me, that's 00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:53.340 one of those places. And for many people, that's 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:55.940 sufficient because it's a way that we're communicating 00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:59.139 back and forth. And I'm helping hold you accountable 00:15:59.139 --> 00:16:03.340 to what your definition of success is. Now, I 00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:08.730 work with women entrepreneurs. If you're a man, 00:16:08.990 --> 00:16:11.269 you can reach out. I will absolutely talk to 00:16:11.269 --> 00:16:13.509 you. And then I will redirect you to one or two 00:16:13.509 --> 00:16:18.070 of my most trusted colleagues. But for women, 00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:23.250 I focus on women because women often are getting 00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:26.730 advice from men who have not lived the female 00:16:26.730 --> 00:16:30.559 experience. There is a different level of expectation 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.480 still in women in our society of what the obligations 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.700 and expectations are. And so that's part of what 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.259 I focus on and talk about when I'm working with 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:44.539 my clients. So the weekly course of action is 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:48.059 for any level of business owner. I've had folks 00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:50.720 that were brand new business owners join a weekly 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:52.419 course of action. And I've had people who've 00:16:52.419 --> 00:16:54.460 been in business for 20 years join a weekly course 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:56.929 of action. I also have a small group program, 00:16:57.049 --> 00:16:59.909 which allows us to do a little masterminding 00:16:59.909 --> 00:17:03.269 every month, as well as a little bit of one -on 00:17:03.269 --> 00:17:06.789 -one work. And then my primary offer is one -on 00:17:06.789 --> 00:17:09.450 -one coaching, where I spend some time every 00:17:09.450 --> 00:17:11.990 week or every other week with my client, really 00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:15.049 digging in and looking at where's the root cause? 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:17.750 What are we dealing with? Are we thinking strategically? 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:20.369 Are we getting a little too myopic and a little 00:17:20.369 --> 00:17:23.990 too focused on tools and tactics? Helping them 00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:27.359 think through alternatives. You know, you mentioned 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.740 at the beginning of the call, the 47 industries. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.319 And years ago, I had a client say, you are such 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.240 an out of the box thinker. And I remember being 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.839 struck by that as like, that is not at all about 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.640 how I think about myself. And then I started 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.779 giggling and she said, what? And I said, I'm 00:17:44.779 --> 00:17:47.359 not actually an out of the box thinker. I just 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.930 know what's in everybody's box. And that was 00:17:50.930 --> 00:17:54.069 actually what I had done is I had grabbed a tool, 00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:58.089 a tactic out of a completely unrelated industry 00:17:58.089 --> 00:18:01.910 that has used that tool and tactic for decades 00:18:01.910 --> 00:18:06.410 and said, what if we plug that in into your situation? 00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:10.329 And it felt so revolutionary and so unusual. 00:18:10.509 --> 00:18:12.910 So that's also part of what I provide when I'm 00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:14.950 working with my clients one -to -one is to say, 00:18:15.049 --> 00:18:17.109 have you thought about this other thing that 00:18:17.109 --> 00:18:21.029 you probably have no idea even. exists because 00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:24.690 it's way outside of where your brain and your 00:18:24.690 --> 00:18:27.710 industry currently works. The one -on -one work 00:18:27.710 --> 00:18:30.450 is my very favorite work because I really like 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.309 digging in. So before we wrap it up, I'd like 00:18:33.309 --> 00:18:36.930 for you to share one key takeaway that they can 00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:41.430 implement to become better about their own accountability. 00:18:41.589 --> 00:18:43.849 So I guess the question is, what does everybody 00:18:43.849 --> 00:18:46.730 get wrong about accountability and what step 00:18:46.730 --> 00:18:49.549 can they take today to be more accountable? The 00:18:49.549 --> 00:18:53.910 thing for accountability is we have conflated 00:18:53.910 --> 00:19:01.029 task management and chasing down people and making 00:19:01.029 --> 00:19:03.369 people feel bad about not getting things done 00:19:03.369 --> 00:19:06.470 as accountability. And none of those things are 00:19:06.470 --> 00:19:09.990 accountability. Those are project management 00:19:09.990 --> 00:19:12.809 and, you know, hassling and dogging people and 00:19:12.809 --> 00:19:15.230 shaming. And none of those things are actually 00:19:15.230 --> 00:19:19.190 accountability. Real accountability. takes two 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:24.109 people talking together to reflect and to problem 00:19:24.109 --> 00:19:27.549 solve. That's what real accountability takes. 00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:31.509 And when I start talking to people about accountability, 00:19:31.609 --> 00:19:33.289 they're always a little surprised. It's like, 00:19:33.329 --> 00:19:35.450 no, that's really all it is. It's reflecting 00:19:35.450 --> 00:19:38.690 on your decisions, both the good decisions and 00:19:38.690 --> 00:19:40.789 the bad decisions. Most of us only reflect on 00:19:40.789 --> 00:19:42.750 the bad decisions, but we should reflect on the 00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:46.109 good decisions too, so that either we can confirm 00:19:46.109 --> 00:19:49.420 it was. actually a good decision or just got 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.900 lucky? Or if it was a good decision, how do we 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:58.359 make more of those? Right. But also the problem 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.519 solving. If we're stuck, if something's not moving 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.500 forward, how do we actually solve that problem? 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.359 And my number one tip is to change the way we 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.220 ask the question. So typically when we're in 00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:15.299 an accountability kind of process, what we will 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:18.950 ask is, Why didn't that get done, right? That 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:21.150 is the standard way that we will ask the question, 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:25.269 why didn't that get done? Well, as soon as we 00:20:25.269 --> 00:20:28.950 use the term why, our brain, being, you know, 00:20:28.950 --> 00:20:32.109 back to humans are complicated, goes into an 00:20:32.109 --> 00:20:37.029 automatic defensive mode. And depending on which 00:20:37.029 --> 00:20:39.869 brain starts first, sometimes it's the very nasty 00:20:39.869 --> 00:20:41.970 brain in our head that we wouldn't let any, you 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:44.210 know, wouldn't talk to anyone that way. We'll 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:46.170 say, well, because I'm stupid, because I'm lazy, 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:48.430 because, you know, we'll have all of those very, 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.210 very negative things. Other times it will still 00:20:52.210 --> 00:20:54.630 be about, well, because I had so many things 00:20:54.630 --> 00:20:57.869 I had to do and we start coming up with excuses, 00:20:58.170 --> 00:21:02.509 right? But if we change the framing of the why, 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.960 to a what or a how question, our brain actually 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:13.359 skips all of that useless conversation and immediately 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.059 goes into problem -solving mode. So instead of 00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:19.099 saying, why didn't you get that done? You could 00:21:19.099 --> 00:21:22.599 ask, what prevented you from getting that done? 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.019 It's exactly the same question, but our brain 00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:30.859 goes into a completely different place. Completely 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:32.799 different place. It immediately goes into problem 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:37.660 -solving mode. Or you could ask, how do we need 00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:40.000 to approach it differently so it gets done this 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.500 week? Same thing. Completely different place. 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:49.319 It's still the same question. It functionally 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:52.079 is the same question. But instead of focusing 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.740 on defensive excuses, feeling bad about ourselves, 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.200 we immediately go into... How do we solve this 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.099 problem? What really is the issue? And in doing 00:22:03.099 --> 00:22:06.460 that, we actually are being held accountable 00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.359 and or are holding someone else accountable in 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.519 a way that's helpful. And that's actually going 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.200 to move the needle in the way that we want to 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:17.420 move the needle. So I'm a why kind of girl. Most 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:20.079 of us are. Oh, my gosh. Our natural tendency 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.099 is why. Yes, and I love it because to me it invokes 00:22:24.099 --> 00:22:26.960 curiosity, right? Like, why does that work that 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:29.900 way? So the way that you just explained it made 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:34.240 me reframe my own way of thinking just now. Like, 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:39.400 even with myself, when should I use why versus 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:44.279 how? Or what? How or what creates a very different 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.980 space. And as you said, we've been taught to 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:52.269 ask why as a curiosity question. which is a really 00:22:52.269 --> 00:22:58.109 helpful question. But our mind doesn't go there. 00:22:58.309 --> 00:23:00.130 I mean, there are times that why makes perfect 00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:04.069 sense. But so often, if we change it to what 00:23:04.069 --> 00:23:09.390 or how, it really changes the answer. I can already 00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:12.519 see me now. Why? No, wait. Let's think this through, 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.599 Sheila. Now let's see it from the what perspective. 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.519 And now we're going to see it from the how perspective 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.559 before I make that decision. I will tell you 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.220 from my own experience, it is really hard to 00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:28.259 make the shift. But you gave me something to 00:23:28.259 --> 00:23:30.900 think about. And I will think of you next time. 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:34.660 The why, which is very often it comes into my 00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:37.500 head. It won't be hard. It'll just be that split 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.869 second. Well, if I reframe it. to what and how, 00:23:41.069 --> 00:23:43.990 how does that answer change? Well, thank you 00:23:43.990 --> 00:23:47.250 so much for joining me today, Gwen. Sheila, I 00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:50.750 have enjoyed the conversation and appreciated 00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:52.970 all the questions and the opportunity to be here 00:23:52.970 --> 00:23:56.069 with you. And thank you all for tuning in to 00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:58.809 another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:23:58.809 --> 00:24:00.789 and Leadership. Until next time.