Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where
we explore the journeys that lead to success.
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five
Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders
and experts who will share not just their expertise,
but the milestone moments that have reshaped
their journeys and led to significant achievements.
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in
the right place. Subscribe now and discover the
milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome
to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. I'm Sheila Slick, your host.
And today, my special guest is Gwen Bortner.
She is an operational strategist and business
advisor with over four decades of experience
and more than Not one, not two, not three, but
more than 47 industries. And she helps founders
succeed in business without sacrificing happiness
by identifying their true desires and aligning
their business functions. And her approach comes
from the belief that personal and professional
success looks different for everyone and that
most business owners waste time and energy trying
to conform to outside expectations and definitions
of success. Welcome to the show, Gwen. Sheila,
thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
to be here. So I want to learn a little bit about
your backstory and then get to understanding
how someone can work in 47 different industries.
That's mind blowing. Well, and so those two things
go together. I started out my career as a freelance
programmer. way, way, way long ago when a PC
was a brand new thing. They weren't even calling
it a PC. It was still a personal computer. And
as in doing so, that gave me opportunity to jump
into lots of different industries to help them
solve their problem. And and so I did that for
many, many years, probably, oh, probably close
to 10 years before I ended up leading an IT department.
And then took several other, you know, jaunts
and turns. And in the last 10 years, I've also
been working with lots of different industries.
But part of my career, most of my career has
been working as a consultant for other businesses
and industries. And because of the type of work
I would do, I would have to get involved and
deep into their information. And so a number
of years ago, I was working with a coach and
his question, he was like, so you've worked with
a lot of industries? I'm like, yeah. And he's
like, like 10? And I'm like, oh yeah, way more
than 10. Like I can name off 10 without even
trying. And he's like, more than 20? And it's
like, probably. And he's like, okay, your homework
is to list them out. And so that's what I did.
I listed them out and I came up with 47 different
industries that I've had some amount of knowledge
and experience with. over my 40 plus year career.
So today your specialization is consulting. You're
not doing tech work. You're doing... I'm not
doing tech work, no. I focus now today in what
I call business advisory. And for me, business
advisory is looking at the whole business. So
I'm not, you know, I do look at... tech, but
that is not my primary focus. I also look at
finance. I look at HR. I look at systems. I look
at leadership. I look at planning. I look at
all of those things as a kind of like an advisory
board, but like an advisory board of one. How
can someone make the mindset shift to go from
solo to CEO? I'm going to start with part of
what was in my bio. That's not necessarily a
shift that everybody needs to make. And that's
one of the first things that when I work with
clients, I really get focused on is. Is that
something that you actually want or has social
media convinced you that you're not a real business
if you're not a CEO? And so there always needs
to be some CEO activities, even if you are a
solopreneur. But it's how much of that shift
do you really need to make to be your definition
of success? But if you are wanting to make that
shift, one of the biggest mindset shifts you
have to be able to do is let go of. the how and
focus on the outcome. And I think it's one of
the biggest things that solopreneurs really struggle
with as they move from solo to CEO is we're so
used to having to do it all. We feel like the
best way to do it, possibly the only way to do
it, is the way that we do it, whatever that piece
is. But as we're moving into a CEO role, we really
need to be focused on what is the actual outcome
that we need and be way less concerned about
the path the other thing that we have to do is
realize that we've got to be able to verbalize
our why why something is important to someone
else because that why often will be part of the
path but it may not be the absolute you know
step by step by step process of the path but
understanding why this outcome matters, why we're
trying to do this, why all of those things. And
as a solopreneur, it is so intuitive to us because
that's why we built our business. It's how we
built our business. It's all of those things.
And so when we start there, it's like, well,
I don't need to explain it because it's so obvious.
But the thing is, it's us, but it's not necessarily
obvious to the people we're working with. And
so being able to let go of the how. and really
focus on the result and why that result matters
so that whoever else we're bringing in is able
to actually develop their own how that often,
if we actually let them do their job, is actually
better than the way that we were doing it. Why
do so many business owners end up what we could
say is externally successful but stressed out
internally? Well, I think this is back to we
get caught. in not defining our own definition
of success. This is, to me, that's the perfect
example of a simple question, but a really hard
question to answer. And when we say, you know,
what is your definition of success? It's like,
oh, and often as we start digging into whatever
the answer is, it's like, But why is that actually
important to you? What does that actually mean
to you? As we start, you know, pulling off the
layers, you know, of the paint to get down to,
you know, the bare wood floor, we realize that
they don't actually know. What it is is because
someone said a million dollar business is what
is a real successful business. Is it? Maybe.
But in some cases, a million dollar business
won't be successful for a person. But they were
going after it. And often can achieve it. But
in that achieving, they have let go of their
own definition of success. And we were seeing
this a lot probably a year or two ago where people
had quietly burned down their business and weren't
talking about it. And then like a couple of years
ago, we're kind of coming out and talking about
it. And this was exactly what it was. They had
achieved outside success. I have a million dollar
business. I have, you know, I have this, I have
that. But what they also had with that business
were things that they didn't want. They had.
mouths to feed in the form of payroll. They had
people they had to manage that maybe they didn't
actually want to be managing people. Maybe the
reason they left whatever their previous world
was to start entrepreneurship wasn't to manage
people. And so that means that the definition
has to be defined for you. About a year ago,
I was having a conversation with a woman who
I... I said, the thing is, a lot of times people
are like, if I achieve all of these things, then
I will be able to, you know, fill in whatever
blank. And I said, a classic is when I get to
this certain level, then I will have the freedom
to do the things that I want to do, spend more
time with my kids, you know, be able to have
meals at home, you know, so on and so forth.
But if you spend 20 years doing that, the kids
aren't home anymore. Right. And as I said that,
she started crying and she said, no, that's actually
what happened to me. She said, my kids don't
talk to me because I spent all of my time building
the career so that I could spend time with them.
But then I didn't spend time with them when they
were there to spend time with. And so to me,
that's this definition of success. We need to
know what actually matters right now. Make sure
that we're doing things that get us closer to
that right this minute. And maybe that means
some of the other outside definitions of success
will have to wait. That was such an unexpected
answer, and it was so deep. You made my own heartbeat.
Yeah, it's a real question. Like I said, it's
a simple question, but it is very hard to answer,
and it takes a lot of time. And I always point
that out because people are like, oh, yeah, no,
I know what it means. And it's like, I bet you
don't. And part of it is because it continues
to shift depending on what's happening in your
life. The definition of success when you have
young children at home may be very different
than the definition of success after they've
all gone off to college or even graduate. It
shifts over time. It's not a one and done kind
of answer. It's something we have to think about
on an ongoing basis. So I'm going to confess
when I asked that question, and I don't know
if it's because it's engraved that you have your
IT background. I thought you were going to say
they don't have the proper systems in place and
we were going to go down that route. So you really
just caught me by surprise with your answer.
Once we know what your definition of success
is, then we can install the right systems for
it. Well, let's move on to the next one. How
can someone break that burnout cycle if they're
having one in their business? One of the first
things is to actually identify that you're having
a burnout cycle and realizing that the only person
that can fix that is you. It's not an outside
system. It's not bringing in another VA. It's
not, you know, I mean, it's like we keep wanting
to like fix it from outside things, but it typically
is an inside problem. And the first question
goes back to the answer to the last question.
Are you actually working toward the thing that
you want to be working toward? Are you working
toward something that isn't actually inspiring,
isn't actually aligned with what you're doing?
Because being really successful at something,
what's the phrase someone used? Winning a game
you don't want to play isn't a win, right? And
so that's part of it, is to make sure that the
thing that you're winning at actually is the
thing that you want to be. winning at. That's
the first step. Once you realize that, then it's
to look at what actually needs to change so that
you can reclaim your time and your energy. You
know, as business owners, we get really focused
on the money because it's an easy thing to measure.
You know, money is very, very tactical. We can
absolutely know, you know, do you have $100 or
do you have $1 ,000? It's very easy. Time we
can kind of measure because we have these things,
watches and whatnot. But time is kind of a weird
construct anyway, but we kind of sort of measure
it. But energy is the piece that we have a really
hard time measuring. And it's, you know, physical
energy. It's mental energy. It's spiritual energy.
It's all of those types of energy. And that's
the place that we have to get really honest with
ourselves is, is our energy being used in the
right place? Because most of the time burnout
is about energy depletion. It's not usually about
money depletion. And it's not actually usually
about time depletion. It feels like time depletion
because energy and time are kind of. closely
related. But it's usually about energy depletion.
Why is this draining me so much? Why am I not
recharging? Because burnout really is about not
recharging at a proper level. And sometimes it
is about time. I'm spending way too much time
working and I'm not taking enough time to eat
properly, sleep properly, you know, do all of
those things. But It often is not about time.
It's actually about I'm putting energy into things
that don't actually fuel me. And over time, my
gas tank just keeps getting lower. So we have
to be honest with ourselves. And it's not an
easy process. And often we need someone on the
outside to help us diagnose it because the voice
in our head usually is not. as honest as we want
it to be. So now let's talk about the implementation
gap. What does that mean? The implementation
gap is where we're looking for X and we're at
Y. And how do we get from here to there? And
so the implementation gap is to say. What needs
to change? How do we need to do things differently
and not just keep doing the same thing? It's
often also part of what I call root cause analysis
of actually getting deeper. We're very good at
fixing issues that come up, but what we forget
is often this issue is actually because of a
deeper issue that's because of a deeper issue
because of a deeper issue. And so that implementation
gap is trying to get down to that root cause
of the issue and saying, let's solve that and
see how many of these others get solved as a
result of that fix, whatever that fix happens
to be. Sometimes it's about bringing in additional
people, but sometimes it's about changing a system.
Sometimes it's about cutting out things that
maybe aren't actually valuable for you, your
business, your customers. Often the implementation
gap is the space where we're trying to put things
in and actually the trick for the implementation
gap is taking things out and having less in there
instead of... instead of more in there. But functionally,
it really is about saying, what is that root
cause that's going to get us from where we are
to where we actually want to be instead of just
continuing to put, you know, a Band -Aid on the
cut. So how can someone work with you? I actually
have three main programs that I offer, and they're
designed at different levels of business. All
of our programs are based on an accountability
process that we call the weekly course of action.
And regardless of how you work with me, that's
one of those places. And for many people, that's
sufficient because it's a way that we're communicating
back and forth. And I'm helping hold you accountable
to what your definition of success is. Now, I
work with women entrepreneurs. If you're a man,
you can reach out. I will absolutely talk to
you. And then I will redirect you to one or two
of my most trusted colleagues. But for women,
I focus on women because women often are getting
advice from men who have not lived the female
experience. There is a different level of expectation
still in women in our society of what the obligations
and expectations are. And so that's part of what
I focus on and talk about when I'm working with
my clients. So the weekly course of action is
for any level of business owner. I've had folks
that were brand new business owners join a weekly
course of action. And I've had people who've
been in business for 20 years join a weekly course
of action. I also have a small group program,
which allows us to do a little masterminding
every month, as well as a little bit of one -on
-one work. And then my primary offer is one -on
-one coaching, where I spend some time every
week or every other week with my client, really
digging in and looking at where's the root cause?
What are we dealing with? Are we thinking strategically?
Are we getting a little too myopic and a little
too focused on tools and tactics? Helping them
think through alternatives. You know, you mentioned
at the beginning of the call, the 47 industries.
And years ago, I had a client say, you are such
an out of the box thinker. And I remember being
struck by that as like, that is not at all about
how I think about myself. And then I started
giggling and she said, what? And I said, I'm
not actually an out of the box thinker. I just
know what's in everybody's box. And that was
actually what I had done is I had grabbed a tool,
a tactic out of a completely unrelated industry
that has used that tool and tactic for decades
and said, what if we plug that in into your situation?
And it felt so revolutionary and so unusual.
So that's also part of what I provide when I'm
working with my clients one -to -one is to say,
have you thought about this other thing that
you probably have no idea even. exists because
it's way outside of where your brain and your
industry currently works. The one -on -one work
is my very favorite work because I really like
digging in. So before we wrap it up, I'd like
for you to share one key takeaway that they can
implement to become better about their own accountability.
So I guess the question is, what does everybody
get wrong about accountability and what step
can they take today to be more accountable? The
thing for accountability is we have conflated
task management and chasing down people and making
people feel bad about not getting things done
as accountability. And none of those things are
accountability. Those are project management
and, you know, hassling and dogging people and
shaming. And none of those things are actually
accountability. Real accountability. takes two
people talking together to reflect and to problem
solve. That's what real accountability takes.
And when I start talking to people about accountability,
they're always a little surprised. It's like,
no, that's really all it is. It's reflecting
on your decisions, both the good decisions and
the bad decisions. Most of us only reflect on
the bad decisions, but we should reflect on the
good decisions too, so that either we can confirm
it was. actually a good decision or just got
lucky? Or if it was a good decision, how do we
make more of those? Right. But also the problem
solving. If we're stuck, if something's not moving
forward, how do we actually solve that problem?
And my number one tip is to change the way we
ask the question. So typically when we're in
an accountability kind of process, what we will
ask is, Why didn't that get done, right? That
is the standard way that we will ask the question,
why didn't that get done? Well, as soon as we
use the term why, our brain, being, you know,
back to humans are complicated, goes into an
automatic defensive mode. And depending on which
brain starts first, sometimes it's the very nasty
brain in our head that we wouldn't let any, you
know, wouldn't talk to anyone that way. We'll
say, well, because I'm stupid, because I'm lazy,
because, you know, we'll have all of those very,
very negative things. Other times it will still
be about, well, because I had so many things
I had to do and we start coming up with excuses,
right? But if we change the framing of the why,
to a what or a how question, our brain actually
skips all of that useless conversation and immediately
goes into problem -solving mode. So instead of
saying, why didn't you get that done? You could
ask, what prevented you from getting that done?
It's exactly the same question, but our brain
goes into a completely different place. Completely
different place. It immediately goes into problem
-solving mode. Or you could ask, how do we need
to approach it differently so it gets done this
week? Same thing. Completely different place.
It's still the same question. It functionally
is the same question. But instead of focusing
on defensive excuses, feeling bad about ourselves,
we immediately go into... How do we solve this
problem? What really is the issue? And in doing
that, we actually are being held accountable
and or are holding someone else accountable in
a way that's helpful. And that's actually going
to move the needle in the way that we want to
move the needle. So I'm a why kind of girl. Most
of us are. Oh, my gosh. Our natural tendency
is why. Yes, and I love it because to me it invokes
curiosity, right? Like, why does that work that
way? So the way that you just explained it made
me reframe my own way of thinking just now. Like,
even with myself, when should I use why versus
how? Or what? How or what creates a very different
space. And as you said, we've been taught to
ask why as a curiosity question. which is a really
helpful question. But our mind doesn't go there.
I mean, there are times that why makes perfect
sense. But so often, if we change it to what
or how, it really changes the answer. I can already
see me now. Why? No, wait. Let's think this through,
Sheila. Now let's see it from the what perspective.
And now we're going to see it from the how perspective
before I make that decision. I will tell you
from my own experience, it is really hard to
make the shift. But you gave me something to
think about. And I will think of you next time.
The why, which is very often it comes into my
head. It won't be hard. It'll just be that split
second. Well, if I reframe it. to what and how,
how does that answer change? Well, thank you
so much for joining me today, Gwen. Sheila, I
have enjoyed the conversation and appreciated
all the questions and the opportunity to be here
with you. And thank you all for tuning in to
another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. Until next time.