WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:10.199 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.859 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.079 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.800 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.120 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.039 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.359 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.560 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:40.299 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:40.299 --> 00:00:43.380 to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:46.479 and Leadership. I'm your host, Sheila Slick. 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:51.280 And today, my special guest is Paul Eric Pape. 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.820 Paul is a TEDx speaker, author, and a creative 00:00:54.820 --> 00:00:58.679 business strategist known as Santa for Nerds. 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.560 With over 20 years as a successful creative entrepreneur, 00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:07.060 Paul has designed custom collectibles for Disney, 00:01:07.299 --> 00:01:11.239 Universal, and Nickelodeon while building his 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.019 own thriving design studio. Paul is the creator 00:01:15.019 --> 00:01:18.439 of Gamify Business and author of the Creative 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:22.290 Players Handbook to Business. A revolutionary 00:01:22.290 --> 00:01:26.370 approach that translates intimidating business 00:01:26.370 --> 00:01:30.590 concepts into language that even creative minds 00:01:30.590 --> 00:01:34.530 actually understand. Welcome to the show, Paul. 00:01:35.109 --> 00:01:37.670 Thanks for having me, Sheila. Looking forward 00:01:37.670 --> 00:01:40.810 to this. Thank you. Well, I have a ton of questions 00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:44.370 for you. Okay. Sounds good. Let's do it. What 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:47.909 was the moment that you realized that you could 00:01:47.909 --> 00:01:51.629 create something completely new? That nobody 00:01:51.629 --> 00:01:54.069 else was doing like that turning point that led 00:01:54.069 --> 00:01:58.069 you from your starving artist days to what you 00:01:58.069 --> 00:02:02.400 do today. Well, as a. As an artist, as an entrepreneur, 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:03.959 and as a person who owns their own business, 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:06.359 I think the one thing that we all run into is 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:10.659 how do we maintain customers? And for me, I get 00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:13.280 bored really easily. I think it's just part of 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.419 my makeup. And so I don't like doing a repetitive 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:17.979 job. I don't like making the same thing over 00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:20.060 and over again. And so what I did is I kind of 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:23.180 harnessed that inability to stay focused on one 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.020 thing and turned it into something that worked 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:28.270 for me. So what happened is that. I live by this 00:02:28.270 --> 00:02:31.289 rule of bend, don't break. And so when people 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:34.129 come and ask me for something, companies, individuals, 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:36.449 whatever, the answer is never no. The answer 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.610 is always yes. And I'll figure it out. And so 00:02:39.610 --> 00:02:41.930 instead of being rigid on that, no, I can't do 00:02:41.930 --> 00:02:43.349 that. These are the only things that I make. 00:02:43.449 --> 00:02:46.090 I say, we'll bend a little bit and figure it 00:02:46.090 --> 00:02:49.389 out as we go along. And what that did is it created 00:02:49.389 --> 00:02:53.159 a new type of business. I've been told by. many 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:55.879 business consultants and coaches that running 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.719 a business that is completely custom for every 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.740 single client is the biggest way to ruin a business. 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:04.580 And yet I've been doing it for 20 years. And 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:06.099 I think the secret is, is that you've just got 00:03:06.099 --> 00:03:09.120 to make that the product that you sell. So people 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.599 aren't necessarily buying individual items from 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.599 me, but instead they're buying me and what my 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:16.919 abilities are in creating the thing that they're 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.740 after. What were you doing before this? Like, 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:22.860 take me back 20 years. Oh, okay. Well, 20 years 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:26.030 ago, I actually, I was doing theater. I'm a theater 00:03:26.030 --> 00:03:28.530 set designer. That's what my training is in the 00:03:28.530 --> 00:03:32.349 sets, props, costumes, et cetera. And so I was 00:03:32.349 --> 00:03:35.509 doing that. And then it wasn't very lucrative, 00:03:35.569 --> 00:03:38.409 not because I couldn't get the work. It was just 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:40.150 that the work doesn't really pay very well here 00:03:40.150 --> 00:03:43.710 in the States. I was one of my mentors was like 00:03:43.710 --> 00:03:45.669 top of the game, like Broadway designer. And 00:03:45.669 --> 00:03:48.069 he's still only making twenty five to five thousand 00:03:48.069 --> 00:03:50.389 dollars a show. And that's every six weeks. So 00:03:50.389 --> 00:03:52.210 it's not a lot of money. And so he was constantly 00:03:52.210 --> 00:03:54.550 moving about. And so I took a look at. that. 00:03:54.569 --> 00:03:57.129 And I was like, eh, maybe not for me. And so 00:03:57.129 --> 00:03:59.229 then I became a college professor for a little 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:02.229 bit, teaching design. And that lasted about three 00:04:02.229 --> 00:04:03.729 years because it was the same thing over and 00:04:03.729 --> 00:04:05.789 over again. I don't like to do that, but also 00:04:05.789 --> 00:04:09.370 the bureaucracy of teaching is. horrible it's 00:04:09.370 --> 00:04:11.110 just it's it's the worst because they don't really 00:04:11.110 --> 00:04:13.169 care about the student aspect of it the learning 00:04:13.169 --> 00:04:15.550 the teachers do absolutely but the bureaucracy 00:04:15.550 --> 00:04:17.870 behind the university did not it was more numbers 00:04:17.870 --> 00:04:19.649 game and so it's like how many kids can we get 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:22.129 through here and it just kind of broke me of 00:04:22.129 --> 00:04:23.850 that whole thing i'm a lifelong learner love 00:04:23.850 --> 00:04:27.009 education so i stopped doing that but in that 00:04:27.009 --> 00:04:30.300 transition of stopping being a professor and 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:32.540 then moving into being a full -time artist, that's 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:34.399 kind of where the eureka moment happened. And 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:36.459 that was when a student had asked me to make 00:04:36.459 --> 00:04:38.339 him something for his girlfriend and him for 00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:40.699 Valentine's Day. This is back in about 2005, 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.680 2006, when the Nintendo Wii had just come out. 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.500 I don't know if you remember that, but they had 00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:48.199 these little avatars, these little versions of 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:51.199 you called me's. And he's like, hey, can you 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:52.759 make me one? And I'm like, yeah, sure. Why not? 00:04:52.939 --> 00:04:55.040 And so I did. I charged him like 50 bucks and 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.439 I didn't know it, but he had posted it on a social 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.180 media site. It was a blog called Super Punch. 00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:02.899 And this is before there was Facebook and all 00:05:02.899 --> 00:05:04.480 the other social medias that are out there now. 00:05:04.939 --> 00:05:07.240 And it went viral. And I started getting requests 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.160 from all over the world from people saying I 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:11.420 would like to have. representation of my me, 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:14.100 a tangible version of it. And so I started doing 00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:17.220 them on the side. And during that last year at 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:19.199 my university job, I was making about $45 ,000 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.300 a year, but the side gig was actually making 00:05:22.300 --> 00:05:24.540 more money. It was bringing in more. And so I 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:26.680 asked my wife, I said, would it be okay to quit 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.779 this stable income 401k gig and go freelance? 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.439 And she said, I'll give you a year. So I'm like, 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:37.009 okay, so quit the job. Started doing that. Within 00:05:37.009 --> 00:05:39.730 three or four months, I had a viral idea. We 00:05:39.730 --> 00:05:43.250 made $50 ,000 in about two weeks. And she's like, 00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:45.250 I think you've got it. And so that was 20 years 00:05:45.250 --> 00:05:47.529 ago. That's how I got here. And you haven't looked 00:05:47.529 --> 00:05:50.889 back? Oh, I look back all the time, but I don't 00:05:50.889 --> 00:05:53.870 go back. We're always looking that way, but we 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:57.990 never go there. So, yes. Well, before we started 00:05:57.990 --> 00:06:01.029 recording the podcast, one of the things I told 00:06:01.029 --> 00:06:03.370 you that I was really looking forward to as a 00:06:03.370 --> 00:06:07.550 business consultant. I understand the frustration 00:06:07.550 --> 00:06:10.850 sometimes of creatives when they're trying to 00:06:10.850 --> 00:06:14.810 turn that hobby or a side gig into a successful 00:06:14.810 --> 00:06:19.569 business. So what do you think is one of the 00:06:19.569 --> 00:06:23.050 biggest mistakes that creators make when they're 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:26.050 first trying to turn their art into a business? 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:29.620 I think the biggest, if I had to pick like one 00:06:29.620 --> 00:06:31.540 single thing, and obviously there's a myriad 00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:33.399 of things that we could go over, but if I had 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.600 to pick one single thing is that they started 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.160 creating something because they were passionate 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:40.879 about it. And that was the thing that they wanted 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:42.639 to show the world. They wanted to show them this 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.620 passion that they had. And then when they go 00:06:44.620 --> 00:06:47.079 to start selling it, they forget the passion 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:49.540 and then they start to try and appease every 00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:52.100 single customer. Now, I know as a guy who does 00:06:52.100 --> 00:06:55.110 custom work, that sounds kind of. like an oxymoron 00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:57.629 there to like kind of do the opposite. But that's 00:06:57.629 --> 00:06:59.350 what most people do is most creatives that I 00:06:59.350 --> 00:07:01.410 know, they try to appease everyone instead of 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:02.949 just following the passion that made them want 00:07:02.949 --> 00:07:05.509 to do it in the first place. And I think, and 00:07:05.509 --> 00:07:07.389 so with Gamify business, that's literally the 00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:09.050 first thing that we do is we find out what your 00:07:09.050 --> 00:07:11.269 passion is and then we find out what you do different 00:07:11.269 --> 00:07:13.769 with it. And then from there, we build your business 00:07:13.769 --> 00:07:16.250 around that. And then we can always go back to 00:07:16.250 --> 00:07:18.329 what that passion is. Whenever you're feeling 00:07:18.329 --> 00:07:20.589 lost, you're feeling like you don't know what's 00:07:20.589 --> 00:07:21.910 going on. You're not making the sales that you 00:07:21.910 --> 00:07:24.009 want. You go back to the passion because in the 00:07:24.009 --> 00:07:26.670 end, at the end of the day, you either have, 00:07:26.689 --> 00:07:29.290 we want fame and fortune, but fame and fortune 00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:30.850 are always those mysterious things that are out 00:07:30.850 --> 00:07:32.839 there that we're always trying to get. The thing 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:34.660 that we always have and we had from the very 00:07:34.660 --> 00:07:37.639 beginning is this passion. And when you don't 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:39.079 have the fame or the fortune, you've got to have 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:40.540 something else that drives you. And so I always 00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:42.600 tell them, look to the passion, try to find out 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:44.540 what it is, and then let's stick with that and 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:49.699 see where that takes us. So now let's talk pricing 00:07:49.699 --> 00:07:52.060 because here's another struggle that they have. 00:07:52.819 --> 00:07:56.110 I love pricing. Yes, and I'm going to hear it 00:07:56.110 --> 00:07:59.329 from your creative mindset. When it comes down 00:07:59.329 --> 00:08:02.050 to pricing, sometimes they use the wrong framework 00:08:02.050 --> 00:08:04.750 entirely. What's the difference between pricing 00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:08.829 art and quote -unquote like a magic item, I want 00:08:08.829 --> 00:08:12.029 to learn about that, versus the way a different 00:08:12.029 --> 00:08:13.850 kind of business would price their products, 00:08:14.029 --> 00:08:16.250 which would just be cost of goods sold? That's 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.250 right. Well, here's the thing. Artists or creatives, 00:08:20.250 --> 00:08:21.949 I like to say creatives because all creatives 00:08:21.949 --> 00:08:23.769 are not artists, but all artists are creative. 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:26.689 So like you and your business as a coach are 00:08:26.689 --> 00:08:28.430 creative because you have to come up with ideas 00:08:28.430 --> 00:08:30.389 on the fly. You have to be creative in your endeavor. 00:08:30.670 --> 00:08:34.370 All entrepreneurs, creatives. Artists are creatives, 00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:37.389 but they're also artists. So when it comes to 00:08:37.389 --> 00:08:40.029 pricing and we price like magic items, we live 00:08:40.029 --> 00:08:43.460 in a world of Amazons and Walmart. Anything that 00:08:43.460 --> 00:08:45.419 you want, you can go online and you can buy it 00:08:45.419 --> 00:08:47.519 for a dollar. Everything is dirt cheap. The thing 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.320 is, is that's because it is mass produced. It's 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.200 typically produced in a country that does not 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.679 pay a fair wage. And then here we are in the 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:56.860 States or in first world countries, and we're 00:08:56.860 --> 00:08:59.100 trying to be an artist and make a living at it. 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:01.879 And I hate the starving artist trope. So when 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:04.159 we talk about pricing, you have to get past the 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.559 point of wanting to compare yourselves to companies 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:10.320 like Amazon and Walmart. And instead, think of 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.220 yourself as a wizard. who creates something that 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:15.519 is completely unique, something very magical, 00:09:15.620 --> 00:09:18.799 that automatically ups your price because you 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.740 cannot get what I make anywhere else. As a creative, 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:25.259 there's only you. There will only ever be you. 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:27.919 The art, the work that you create, the ideas 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.080 that you generate are unique to you. No one in 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.919 the past and no one in the future will ever create 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.580 the things that you create. And we got to think 00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:39.120 of ourselves like that. We are truly... magical 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.159 beings who create magic items for sale. And that 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.159 comes at a cost. And we don't need to feel bad 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.500 for asking for that. Trust me, as a person who's 00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:51.279 been doing this for 20 years, I get held up often 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.440 with the, well, if I lower the price, then I'll 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:55.580 at least get the sale and I can pay my bills. 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:57.779 But what I found is every time I lower my price, 00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:00.820 those are the worst customers, hands down. And 00:10:00.820 --> 00:10:02.539 that when I stick to my guns and I stick to my 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:05.000 prices, the customers come. They may not be as 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.860 frequent as the low priced ones, but then if 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:10.440 I'm doing it for the low price, I'm doing a lot 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.519 more work for the same, for minimal amount of 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.480 money. Whereas I just held, stuck my guns. They 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:16.960 do the higher pricing. I would have done less 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.860 work for the same amount of money. So you just 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:21.259 have to kind of retrain your brain and retrain 00:10:21.259 --> 00:10:23.100 how we think about this. And in the States, it's 00:10:23.100 --> 00:10:25.220 really difficult because art is looked down upon. 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.659 It took me 15 years to say I was an artist. I 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:32.259 used to call myself a designer, a maker, a fabricator, 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:34.159 all these other terms to kind of work around 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:36.299 it. Because whenever I said, hi, I'm Paul Pape, 00:10:36.340 --> 00:10:39.120 I'm an artist, everyone's reaction, everyone 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.820 across the board is, oh. And it's like, wow, 00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:47.539 that hurts. Or it's, do you want fries with that? 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:49.259 Or how do you like your coffee? Or however they 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:51.259 want to put it. And it's like, no, no, I'm actually 00:10:51.259 --> 00:10:53.980 magical. So I'm a wizard. So it's just a lot 00:10:53.980 --> 00:10:55.919 easier now if we frame it that way to think of 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:57.929 your pricing. in that point. Now, I have a whole 00:10:57.929 --> 00:11:00.110 mathematical equation that we could go into that 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:02.009 tells you how to figure out where to start your 00:11:02.009 --> 00:11:03.549 pricing and all that. But we can save that for 00:11:03.549 --> 00:11:05.590 another conversation. But the whole point is 00:11:05.590 --> 00:11:07.450 that you've got to think of yourself as unique 00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:09.950 because you are. And that's how we get out there. 00:11:10.029 --> 00:11:11.250 And that's how we keep those prices up there. 00:11:11.870 --> 00:11:15.049 So to be clear on who you serve, because now 00:11:15.049 --> 00:11:17.309 we've used the word creative. Now we're talking 00:11:17.309 --> 00:11:19.990 artists. And I want to make sure that we're speaking 00:11:19.990 --> 00:11:22.870 to the right people. Give me some examples of 00:11:22.870 --> 00:11:25.809 how do you help them? So definitely I work with 00:11:25.809 --> 00:11:27.590 artists and theater practitioners because that's 00:11:27.590 --> 00:11:29.330 where my heart is. That's where I come from. 00:11:29.389 --> 00:11:31.990 So those are pretty easy to quantify. But I've 00:11:31.990 --> 00:11:34.750 also worked with actuaries, people who do finances, 00:11:34.830 --> 00:11:37.049 because they're creative in their work. You got 00:11:37.049 --> 00:11:39.289 to figure out those numbers. I've worked with 00:11:39.289 --> 00:11:41.409 startup companies. I've worked with people who 00:11:41.409 --> 00:11:43.289 have been in their business for a really long 00:11:43.289 --> 00:11:46.490 time, like CEOs who are noticing that, you know, 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:49.549 the. The machine is not working as well as it 00:11:49.549 --> 00:11:51.929 should. I've worked with CEOs who feel that they 00:11:51.929 --> 00:11:53.990 have to take on every single aspect of their 00:11:53.990 --> 00:11:56.409 job. And as far as like what the thing is that 00:11:56.409 --> 00:11:58.549 they're making, it's inconsequential. It's just 00:11:58.549 --> 00:12:01.429 really the people who have the spirit to want 00:12:01.429 --> 00:12:04.710 to be creative, to want to be an entrepreneur, 00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:06.850 to run a business or to own it, because you got 00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:08.049 to wear a lot of hats. And that's really where 00:12:08.049 --> 00:12:10.309 the creativity comes in. And so as far as like 00:12:10.309 --> 00:12:12.250 the people, I mean, I've worked with. teachers 00:12:12.250 --> 00:12:15.549 i've worked with students i've worked with bankers 00:12:15.549 --> 00:12:17.470 i've worked i mean like honestly anybody you 00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:19.330 can think of i've probably had them come across 00:12:19.330 --> 00:12:21.590 my my desk i worked with a woman just the other 00:12:21.590 --> 00:12:23.570 day who who works on assembly line at harley 00:12:23.570 --> 00:12:26.789 davidson you know but what i did is she had a 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:28.590 side side thing that she was trying to get off 00:12:28.590 --> 00:12:30.289 the ground that was kind of similar to what the 00:12:30.289 --> 00:12:32.289 work she was doing and i was able to help her 00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:34.289 by planning out what it is that she was doing 00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:38.149 So would it be fair to say that someone who's 00:12:38.149 --> 00:12:41.529 looking to transition into entrepreneurship and 00:12:41.529 --> 00:12:44.970 they're looking for a creative or their artistic 00:12:44.970 --> 00:12:48.070 talents, they would reach out to you and you 00:12:48.070 --> 00:12:52.279 help them from idea to launch? Ideation through 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.580 creation. That's what we say. And that's exactly 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:56.919 what it is. The whole, the book that I have here, 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:58.860 the creative players handbook to business is 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:01.039 it's a self -led book, or I can coach you through 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:02.539 it, which is actually, I think is better because 00:13:02.539 --> 00:13:04.639 I play the game master. So I ask all the right 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.659 questions to help lead you through the quest, 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:09.759 which is the adventure of your life. And, uh, 00:13:09.940 --> 00:13:12.440 this book here, it starts off from the very beginning 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:14.159 of just asking you those simple questions. What 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:15.600 are you passionate about? Let's build a business 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:17.000 around that. And then we actually create like 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.299 a character sheet for you, which allows you, 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.600 it's a, it's. which is basically introspection. 00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:23.759 Because I don't know if you've noticed this with 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:25.899 entrepreneurs, is that they're flawless. They 00:13:25.899 --> 00:13:28.000 don't make any mistakes. Everything is perfect. 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:30.860 And that's what they project. And we all know 00:13:30.860 --> 00:13:33.779 that that's false, but that's what they have 00:13:33.779 --> 00:13:35.279 to put out there. Because if they show a kink 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.200 in the armor, a chink in the armor, sorry, they 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.879 show a chink in the armor, what happens is that 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.019 they feel like they're going to fail because 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:43.299 it's that putting on appearances. So we create 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:45.360 a character sheet, which just separates you just 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.659 far enough away from who you are. It's still 00:13:47.659 --> 00:13:51.370 you. It's just not. me, it's my character. And 00:13:51.370 --> 00:13:53.210 so you can say, what are the things that I'm 00:13:53.210 --> 00:13:55.330 strong at and good at? What are the things that 00:13:55.330 --> 00:13:57.269 I'm not so good at? What are my deficiencies? 00:13:57.529 --> 00:13:59.629 And it's not a negative to have things that you're 00:13:59.629 --> 00:14:02.169 not good at. I know as entrepreneurs and as people 00:14:02.169 --> 00:14:04.210 who want to run everything that we have to feel 00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:07.039 like we can do everything. The reality is, is 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.120 we sure could, but we'll be bad at a lot of it. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.379 So find people who are better at it. But the 00:14:12.379 --> 00:14:13.340 only way that you're going to know who's good 00:14:13.340 --> 00:14:14.840 at it is if we fill out this character sheet 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.320 so we know who they are. It's like a personality 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.600 test, but it's a one of through introspection. 00:14:19.940 --> 00:14:21.480 So I want you to really think about who you are. 00:14:21.539 --> 00:14:23.139 And then from there, you have your employees 00:14:23.139 --> 00:14:24.500 or people that you want to work with do the same 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:26.480 sheet. Then we do something called looking for 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.279 group. That's my favorite part. And that's why 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:29.700 we're actually in a tavern. This is why this 00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:31.580 looks like a bar here, because in role playing 00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:33.480 games, which is what this is kind of based around, 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.220 when you go looking for a group, you do that 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.299 at the tavern because the tavern is where everybody 00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:40.299 gets together. And I play the tavern keeper. 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.720 I'm just the guy who has the knowledge. I'm not 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.600 the star of the show. You are. You're the adventure. 00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:46.620 And so what we do is we go looking for group 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.600 and we look for people who are not similar to 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.139 you, but are actually. have the opposite skill 00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:55.480 set as you to help round you out. Because there's 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.840 nothing worse than going into battle with five 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.779 warriors because you're automatically going to 00:14:59.779 --> 00:15:02.120 wipe. What you need is you need a warrior, you 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:03.960 need a wizard, you need a healer, you need all 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:05.580 these different people to help round out your 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:07.639 party to be successful. It's the exact same thing 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.179 in business. You need people who are more well 00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:11.759 -rounded. And so that's really what this book 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.059 does. And so if you are unsure how you want to 00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:15.759 get into this, you sit down, you do your character 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:17.220 sheet, really give you that introspection, then 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.210 you know who you are and what you're after. Then 00:15:19.210 --> 00:15:20.850 you go find the people to help support that. 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:22.809 Then you got the adventure of business ahead 00:15:22.809 --> 00:15:27.929 of you. I like that. I feel like I'm in a Disney 00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:30.389 kind of setting. And then you said it's a tavern. 00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:34.690 I hadn't put two and two together. You just have 00:15:34.690 --> 00:15:37.690 a Disney feel all about you from the well, thank 00:15:37.690 --> 00:15:42.409 you. That's why I'm Santa. Let's talk about that. 00:15:42.509 --> 00:15:45.909 What does that mean? I'm Santa for nerds is the 00:15:45.909 --> 00:15:47.570 title. I did not give myself a nickname. You 00:15:47.570 --> 00:15:49.590 do not do that in life. People give you nicknames. 00:15:49.690 --> 00:15:52.129 And like I said, for years, I didn't know what 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.549 to call my business because it's really hard 00:15:54.549 --> 00:15:56.870 to put on a business card that you can make anything 00:15:56.870 --> 00:15:59.169 that you can think of. And that was one of my 00:15:59.169 --> 00:16:02.509 business cards. I also tried a want fulfillment 00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:05.269 specialist. It would be wishes, but I'm not a 00:16:05.269 --> 00:16:07.990 genie. I tried all these like silly things to 00:16:07.990 --> 00:16:10.049 get people to understand that really it's just 00:16:10.049 --> 00:16:12.149 ask for what you want and I can make it happen. 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:15.620 And what happened is. probably about 13, 14 years 00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:17.899 into my business, I had a woman who was a client 00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:19.419 and we were talking one day and she's like, you 00:16:19.419 --> 00:16:22.019 really are just like Santa for nerds. She'd make 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:23.899 all this nerdy stuff and like anybody wishes 00:16:23.899 --> 00:16:25.379 for something and you're just like, poof, I can 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.759 make it happen. And I was like, that is the perfect 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.019 way to describe what it is that I do. Because 00:16:30.019 --> 00:16:32.659 as a person, you know who Santa is and you know 00:16:32.659 --> 00:16:34.840 what a nerd is. And even if you don't understand 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.700 what Santa for nerds is, it's enough of information 00:16:37.700 --> 00:16:41.419 that people go, I need to know more. And really 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:43.759 that's what, what came about. So now when I introduce 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:45.580 myself and my TEDx talk is actually called Santa 00:16:45.580 --> 00:16:48.080 for nerds. And it really goes through the history 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.779 of like how I became who I am. And the thing 00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:53.840 is, is I don't just make items. What I do is 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.500 I make memories tangible. And that is such a 00:16:56.500 --> 00:17:00.779 weird thing to, to be able to do and to demonstrate, 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.879 but everything that I make, I don't keep. And 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.420 so people are like, well, show me all the things 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:05.579 that you've made. I'm like, I can't, I don't 00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:07.240 own any of it. It's gone to the thousands of 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:09.339 people and companies around the world. And so. 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:11.900 When we say Santa for nerds, it's a lot easier 00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:14.119 for people to be like, oh, OK, so you like you 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:16.099 grant wishes, you make things happen that is 00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:18.200 magical. Like, absolutely. That's what I do. 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.099 So your TEDx talk, Santa for nerds, goes over 00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:25.920 your life history and then a framework. Do you 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:29.579 discuss a particular framework? Yeah, I actually 00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:31.319 brought a bunch of props up with me. I had some 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:32.980 I asked for people to bring them back to me so 00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:34.980 that I could go up on stage and demonstrate what 00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:36.599 some of these are. And what I did is I told the 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.480 story. Behind objects that are there because 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.019 everything that I create has a story behind it. 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.319 There's a life that it's go. It's not just a, 00:17:46.339 --> 00:17:48.500 I like that thing because it's cool. So I buy 00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:50.859 that tchotchke off the shelf. When people come 00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:53.099 to commission me, there's a reason behind it. 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.400 Even if it's a company, there's usually a. a 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.519 reason that is from the heart behind it. And 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:01.319 so what I did is I went on stage and I explained 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:02.940 a little bit about who I was, explained that 00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:05.240 I am Santa for nerds, and then went through the 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.240 stories of the people that are these objects 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:12.220 and how the, what I captured was a moment in 00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:15.119 time so that when they look upon it, they're 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.400 taken back. It's like a magic portal that allows 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.740 them to see it. do a lot of custom engagement 00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:24.480 ring boxes so like nerdy people like harry potter 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.240 star wars uh you name it i've probably worked 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.180 in marvel stuff but they take that thing or gaming 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.059 is another huge one and if they have a shared 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:35.779 interest in it then i create an object from that 00:18:35.779 --> 00:18:39.460 franchise and make it a hidden ring box so the 00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:41.200 person who receives it is excited because they 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.019 get that thing from that franchise that they 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:45.460 really love but then the magic is hidden inside 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.579 and it's always hidden and so then they open 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:50.230 it up and then That moment, especially with an 00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:52.349 engagement, that's a fleeting moment in people's 00:18:52.349 --> 00:18:54.690 lives. When you're proposed to, typically it's 00:18:54.690 --> 00:18:56.930 they get down on the knee, pop open the box, 00:18:57.009 --> 00:18:58.390 put the ring on the finger, and that's it. And 00:18:58.390 --> 00:19:01.170 there's no record of it unless somebody videoed 00:19:01.170 --> 00:19:04.930 it from afar or whatever. But what I do is I 00:19:04.930 --> 00:19:07.990 take everything that led up to that moment, the 00:19:07.990 --> 00:19:10.630 things that made that relationship as solid as 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:12.769 it, that made you want to take that leap to marriage. 00:19:13.089 --> 00:19:16.670 And I consolidate it into a package so that when 00:19:16.670 --> 00:19:18.430 they look at it, they go, that was our history. 00:19:18.650 --> 00:19:21.690 And then it culminated in this moment. And it 00:19:21.690 --> 00:19:24.309 is, like I said, it's a tangible memory that 00:19:24.309 --> 00:19:26.789 they can keep forever. Well, I'll make sure to 00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:28.970 leave the link in the comments so that we all 00:19:28.970 --> 00:19:32.329 watch that TEDx speech. It sounds fascinating. 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:36.529 Thank you. So for someone listening who's been 00:19:36.529 --> 00:19:40.009 avoiding the business side of their creativity 00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:43.730 because perhaps it feels overwhelming, what would 00:19:43.730 --> 00:19:46.990 be one gaming principle that they could apply 00:19:46.990 --> 00:19:52.230 today to make it feel less intimidating? We are, 00:19:52.269 --> 00:19:57.339 as a species, Like driven by reward. The carrot 00:19:57.339 --> 00:19:59.420 and the stick, we've all heard that analogy before. 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:01.500 And nobody wants the stick, but everybody wants 00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.900 the carrot. The stick is the work, and that's 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:06.000 unfortunately business. The carrot is the thing 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.799 that we go towards. When we're on our phones, 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.140 our devices, and we're doom scrolling, we get 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:14.019 a dopamine hit. And ironically, we don't get 00:20:14.019 --> 00:20:16.599 it from the things that we're watching. We actually 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.059 get it from the motion of swiping. And that dopamine 00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:21.680 hit is the thing that keeps bringing us back. 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:24.619 What we do with gaming is it's the same thing. 00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:26.819 When we're playing a video game, we get a dopamine 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:28.819 hit from getting an achievement. We have completed 00:20:28.819 --> 00:20:31.359 a task. I get a dopamine hit. I get a reward. 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.680 And we're reward driven. And so what we do with 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:36.759 gaming, especially with Gamify Business here, 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:39.619 is we take all the aspects of business and we 00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:42.500 turn them into challenges. And then when you 00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:44.799 accomplish the challenge, you get a reward. The 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.200 rewards are based on you. You get to choose what 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.299 it is. I have found that gold star stickers work. 00:20:51.050 --> 00:20:52.710 wonderfully. It doesn't cost you hardly anything, 00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:56.250 but people love them. I did an event and we were 00:20:56.250 --> 00:20:59.109 doing this type of thing and people were collecting 00:20:59.109 --> 00:21:00.250 and they were putting them. And then we went 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:01.710 and did a tour of Target because I love to go 00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:03.369 to Target to show creatives how things work. 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:05.430 And they were wearing them with pride. They were 00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:07.509 like majors in the army. They were walking around. 00:21:07.569 --> 00:21:09.730 It's like, I got eight stars, you know, and it's 00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:11.450 that reward because then they know that they've 00:21:11.450 --> 00:21:13.420 accomplished something. And that's really the 00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:17.079 best way to motivate you as a creative to do 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:18.740 the things that you necessarily don't want to 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:21.440 do, just like you would in a video game. I don't 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.059 know how many hours I spend in World of Warcraft 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:25.160 running around picking up mushrooms or killing 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.359 boars, you know, where you have to do 30 of them 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:28.819 and run back to the guy and go, I did it. And 00:21:28.819 --> 00:21:30.859 he's like, OK, here's the next level thing. Here's 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:32.940 a sword and go off and do it again. And it's 00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:34.579 boring, repetitive work. It's called grinding. 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:37.460 We use that exact same term in business. We got 00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:39.980 to do the daily grind. That's what it is. But 00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:42.359 we don't ever in business give ourselves a reward 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.660 except for the paycheck. But that's usually so 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.000 far off in the future. It becomes negligent. 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.240 We don't think about it. It like leaves our mind. 00:21:49.339 --> 00:21:51.259 And so instead, what we do is we give ourselves 00:21:51.259 --> 00:21:54.640 short term goals with rewards. And that's what 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.420 helps propel us forward. And the reward could 00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:00.039 even be a sticker that serves as a reminder that 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.920 you accomplished the task. I'm going to go get 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:07.400 some gold stickers. Exactly. You should. So where 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.960 can we find you? Where can we buy your book? 00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:13.599 Listen to your TEDx. I'll leave that on the link. 00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:17.200 Find you online. I am PaulPaperDesigns pretty 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.579 much everywhere on social media because I've 00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:20.799 been doing this for 20 years. But the business, 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.059 Gamify Business, is GamifyBusiness .com. If you 00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:25.599 would like to sample the book, get the first 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.759 two chapters for free, you can go to GamifyBusiness 00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:31.250 .com forward slash podcast. just the word podcast, 00:22:31.529 --> 00:22:33.710 and it'll pop up a form, just fill it out, and 00:22:33.710 --> 00:22:35.430 you'll get sent the first two chapters of the 00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:37.650 book for free so you can get an idea of what 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:39.549 gamifying your life and your business would be 00:22:39.549 --> 00:22:41.809 like. And then palpatedesigns .com for all the 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:44.470 rest of it. Well, thank you so much for joining 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:47.049 me today, Paul. You're very welcome. Thanks for 00:22:47.049 --> 00:22:49.569 having me, Sheila. And thank you all for tuning 00:22:49.569 --> 00:22:52.809 in to another episode of Milestone Moments in 00:22:52.809 --> 00:22:55.329 Business and Leadership. Until next time.