Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where
we explore the journeys that lead to success.
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five
Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders
and experts who will share not just their expertise,
but the milestone moments that have reshaped
their journeys and led to significant achievements.
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in
the right place. Subscribe now and discover the
milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome
to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. I'm your host, Sheila Slick,
and today my special guest is Aurora Winter.
She is a successful entrepreneur, best -selling
author, TV writer, producer, and the founder
of SamePagePublishing .com. Using her expertise
in film and neuroscience, she helps people tell
memorable stories that build brands, books, and
businesses. She is the winner of the Outstanding
Nonfiction Book of the Year Award, Aurora's book,
Turn Words into Wealth, Blueprint for Your Business.
Welcome to the show, Aurora. Well, it's great
to be on the show with you, Sheila, and I look
forward to helping the listeners turn their words
into wealth. I think you're also going to help
me. Okay, I'll help you too. I'm your number
one fan right now, Aurora. Tell me a little bit
about your backstory. Why do you do what you
do? I love helping people with their books. I
know you share a similar passion. I come from
a background of film and television. I launched
a film and TV company. We rose, we made eight
films. raised $5 million. I oversaw 250 hours
of TV programming when I was a vice president
in the film business. And so I have all of this
creative storytelling expertise, but I'm also
a serial entrepreneur. I've launched several
different businesses that grew to seven figures
from startup. And so I have a real heart for
entrepreneurs being frustrated with their message.
And so what I really love to do is help people
create their own unique million -dollar message,
and I'll give you a bunch of examples of why
it's worth seven figures, and really break through
the noise. Because if you're just one of... dozens
or hundreds of possible solutions, you or your
business is a commodity. And that's bad because
that's a race to the bottom. That's a race to
Walmart or China pricing. That's no good. We
want you and your business and your brand to
be positioned as a luxury tier, like a Ferrari,
right? Like a Bugatti. And to do that, you need
a clear message that cuts through the noise,
and then you need to show up like a luxury brand
and not just like one of many. And there's a
bunch of different ways to do that, seven different
ways at least, which are detailed in my book,
Turn Words Into Wealth, which you can get for
free at turnwordsintowealth .com. But let's dive
into whatever aspect you'd like to know more
about, Shayla. So my first question was, do words
matter? How much value does a story add? Oh,
my goodness. Do words matter, girlfriend? Yes.
This is the thing. Like so many entrepreneurs
and leaders and CEOs, they spend all this time
perfecting their product, their service, their
systems, their hiring, and they just drop the
ball about their message. But studies show that
the value of a story, it can 27x. 27 times, not
2 .7 times, 27 times the revenue with the right
story. And it can take your business from struggling
to thriving. In fact, I have several examples
from my own life where I had a million dollar
idea. I had a killer idea. I had a one -off idea
that nobody else could compete with. But until
I got the right message. It struggled because
I was burying prospects with too much information.
You want to give people the minimum amount of
information, and you want really not so much
information but a story of transformation they
can connect with. People remember stories. They
repeat stories. In fact, a recent meta study
said that videos are memorable statistically
significantly at 0 .27 seconds, not even one
second. So when people may have an attention
span of eight seconds, less than a goldfish.
If you have a video, you can grab attention very
quickly. But I also, I want to dive into that
for a moment because I think most people just
stop at human beings have attention span of eight
seconds or less. That's not actually the full
picture. That's not clearly nuanced enough. people
have become faster and more efficient at filtering
the crap message that they don't want to pay
attention to to a message that is for them. But
if you get past that filter, and we can get into
the neuroscience of communication, the first
filter is that quick message. If you can get
past that filtering, people have... hours that
they'll spend. They'll binge your content. You
know, Joe Rogan proves they'll watch you for
hours. There's lots of long -form podcasts. But
you need to understand the neuroscience, which
we can get into, and there's three steps in that.
But what's your next question? All ears. Let's
dive into the three steps. Forget the questions
I had. All right. And then I want to also talk
about how a little book can really make a difference.
Because I know you help people create short books.
And you have a fairly short book that just came
out. Momentum. Great title. Momentum. I like
Momentum. Okay, so the neuroscience of communication.
I get into this in more detail in my book, Turn
Words Into Wealth, which again, you can get for
free at turnwordsintowealth .com or it's available
wherever books are sold. And I studied neuroscience
when I got my MBA in 2015. I know you've got
a master's in leadership, so we've both got that
master's degree thing going on here. And there's
really three steps and you really need to do
it in this order. So there is a blueprint. behind
effective communication. And the order matters.
Imagine you're building a house. You can't put
the roof on first. But that's what so many people
try to do with our communication. We put the
roof on first by leading with, you know, all
of the intellectual reasons why, like sort of
a verbal equivalent of an Excel spreadsheet.
I know I made this mistake myself in one of my
first businesses. People would run away. They're
like, I know she's smart. I know she's up to
something, but she's overwhelming me with data.
Stop it. You do that too, Sheila. All right.
So the first step is we need to connect with
the croc of the brain. Here, let me give you
a visual to make it easy. Imagine you're a messenger.
You're on your beautiful stallion. You're riding
up to the castle, but there's a moat filled with
crocodiles and the drawbridge is up. So in order
to get past that moat, you have to appeal to
the croc brain. And the croc brain, or the ancient
reptilian brain, is looking for, is this novel?
Is this new? Is this different? Is this interesting?
What's in it for me? And if it's the same message
that the last 14 people on their horses came
up with, the drawbridge is not going to come
down. Okay, but if you have a message that's
interesting, novel, spark something, and this
is very, very quick. It's like the title of a
book, like Marketing Fast Track or Turn Words
Into Wealth, or it's Seth Godin's Purple Cow
or Tim Ferriss's 4 -Hour Workweek. That gets
the drawbridge to come down. Okay, so you trot
in on your horse. You're ready to sell something.
But the king and queen are not going to greet
you as soon as you come across. the drawbridge.
And the brain works the same way. There's a second
filter that you need to pass, and that is the
social midbrain. And the social midbrain is like,
who are you and who sent you anyway? Who else
thinks this is a good idea? Because if you come
across the side and, well, you did get past the
crocodile, you look like a bum and nobody else
has heard of you, you know, you're going to be
quietly shunted to the... the back door. So this
would be an example would be here, as you said,
when you introduced me, award -winning book.
You can mention your clients. You can mention
some wow factor, something that's social midbrain.
So if you pass that next criteria that this person
is all right, or people that I know think they're
all right, even talking to you on a podcast,
that's social midbrain. Aurora thinks Sheila
is worth talking to and vice versa. Check. So
it takes longer to explain it than to do it.
That's like the croc brain is like the foundation
of the house. The midbrain is like the walls.
Now you can put on the roof. Now you are escorted
up to the king and queen in the royal receiving
chamber. And now you can communicate. But, and
I know this is a slight exaggeration, but it
will help you remember it. The queen likes stories
and the king likes data. Two sides of our brain,
right? So tell the queen some stories and give
the king some data. If you only talk to the king,
even though you think he's the decision maker,
you are wrong because it's always the woman who
decides. People think that they make decisions
logically, but they don't. They actually decide
emotionally and then they justify a second later,
a nanosecond later with the logic of it. And
then you want to repeat this. So people can only
listen for about 20 minutes. It's very effortful
and expensive calories -wise to listen. It causes
a lot of brain drain. So make it easy on them
and repeat this sequence every five minutes about.
So again, remind them, you know, what is the
croc brain? What is the midbrain? And what is...
a little bit longer of your message, and ideally
put your message in a story. I love how you turn
that into a story. I'm proud. I don't need to
explain it. I do it. So you are now writing fiction,
if I understood correctly, and you're known for
nonfiction books like Turn Words Into Wealth.
What made you switch? Yeah, I actually, I'm an
award -winning screenwriter. I've written about
30 screenplays, as I mentioned, of background
in film and television. But I have a trilogy
now, a young adult trilogy. This is the first
book, Magic, Mystery, and the Multiverse. And
I've always loved storytelling. I know that storytelling
can really move people. And I think like even
fiction has the power to change facts. So part
of why I wrote Magic Missed in the Multiverse
was to encourage people to read. I can't think
of a superpower that's more valuable than to
encourage young people or really anybody to read.
It changed my life because if you develop a love
of reading, before you know it, you're first
reading for entertainment. And then later, you
know, you have a problem. You're like. Maybe
there's a book about this. Or maybe I can find
an answer online. And you start getting into
the habit of leaning into reading. And that can
completely transform your life. Because every
problem you've had, probably somebody else has
had it. So, hey, one thing I want to share about
this. We're talking about video having. being
memorable statistically significantly at under
a second, well, we've launched a new YouTube
channel called Anna Zest Series, because I have
a background in film. So we're creating little
films, little mini films, like imagine a book
trailer or a movie trailer, two or three minutes.
And when we just launched it, but here's what
I want people to lean into, is we had a 12 %
click -through rate to cold traffic, which is
absolutely unheard of. So if you know how to
tell a good story and you can add a really cool
image, which is super possible now with AI using
Sora 2 and HeyGen and MidJourney and Runway and
other such AI apps, that's a good use of AI.
Take your story, make it visual, make it compelling,
and YouTube is the number two search engine.
Anyway. I also have Strategic Basics YouTube
channel, which is more a resource for people
to help them with their message. But anyway,
it's not just about books, also about videos.
But I did want to tell the story, if I may, of
a little short book that changed my life. So
you will connect because you've got a master's.
And I got my MBA in 2015. And I'm like, oh, happy.
You know, I'm officially approved, stamped, edumacated.
And I'm like, it was. A moment of being lost,
though, because I could do anything. I could
live anywhere. And so I'm in Venice, Italy, going,
OK, well, check the MBA. But my mother had just
died. And I'm like, well, what do I do next?
I didn't have her wise counsel. I'm a widow.
My husband had died. I didn't have his wise counsel.
So I'm like, OK, well, do I go get a job at Netflix?
Do I go back? work in film and television? Do
I try to reboot my coach training company? But
I'm a restless person and I was bored of it.
So I decided to see if a little short book could
prove or disprove the idea that people would
like help with their messaging and marketing
from me. So based on a one -hour interview, turned
that one -hour interview into a short book marketing
fast track. the little book that launched a new
business. And you can get this book for free
too at turnwordsintowealth .com. And I offered
it to my small email list of 12 ,000 at that
time. And the book was free. People just paid
for the shipping. And then they got a sequence
of videos because we really believe in videos
over here. And then I said, hey, if you'd like
some help with your messaging, with your marketing,
with writing your book, with creating your TED
Talk, with creating, you know, videos to put
on YouTube, you can sign up at bookcall .biz
and have a free business breakthrough call. And
this was a sprint because I needed to either
apply for a job at Netflix or get something else
going. And so within 90 days, that little free
book, well, free plus shipping, generated $250
,000. in 90 days. So that's basically a seven
-figure revenue stream over a year. And the money
was great because, as you know, getting a master's
degree is expensive. But the certainty was worth
even more. So one of the things I love... to
suggest people do is do a little 90 -day test.
Test your idea, but don't just ask your mother
and your cousin and your next -door neighbor
if they think it's a good idea. Get real money.
Even if it's only a couple of dollars, that's
a more... definite signal that you're onto something.
And then from a couple of dollars, whether it's
a free book plus shipping or something else that
actually involves some money passing hands, then
you can add more value, you can add the like
and trust, and then offer them what your main...
what your main thing is. And if nobody gets,
nobody buys, you're better off having done a
quick 90 -day test and spending a whole bunch
of money hiring staff, getting the fancy schmancy
office, and then realizing nobody wants what
you have. This is a mistake I see so many well
-funded Silicon Valley companies make. They put
so much effort into... creating something with
the engineers deciding what people want instead
of the marketplace deciding what they want. In
fact, when Gmail was first launched, it only
had three features because they decided let's
launch it quickly and let the market tell us
what else needs to be added. Anyway, so I'm passionate
about very quick, very quick tests. So I call
that validation. Exactly. Work on the business
plan. And I used to develop apps. And so I would
get everyone might have an idea. I have an idea
for an app. She might try and walk them through
the business plan. And so validation, I agree,
is key. I'm actually in that process myself with
my software that we spoke about before, because
you need to make sure that there is a need for
it. And you want to make sure there's product
market fit. Yeah. Yes. Lots of people, you know,
giving me ideas of, oh, you could do this or
you could do this or you could do this. I'm like,
right now it's focusing on one thing and one
thing only because I want to make sure that that
works, not just a click all solution. And yeah,
you can have people once they're paying for the
first tier, if they want to pay for an extra
tier, but just ideas of things you can do. These
are. A trap. Avoid at all costs because you can
spend a lot of money implementing good ideas.
But is it a good idea if it's not coming from
a market that's willing to pay for it? No. I
agree. All right. So now I have one more question.
How do you leverage your name as an author if
you want to write fiction? You might want to
have a pen name. What I did with my fantasy books
is I just put my middle initial to help Amazon,
the Amazon algorithm go, oh, these are her fiction
books and these are her nonfiction books and
not confuse it. But you could have a pen name.
Like one of the authors I like, Joanna Penn,
she writes fiction under JF Penn. And she writes
her nonfiction under Joanna Penn. Here's the
interesting thing. I'm one of the few book coaches
or... marketing messaging strategists who actually
help people with fiction because I have a deep
background in three screenplays, one of which
was produced. Development hell for the other
29. The interesting thing is the demand for fiction
is so much higher than for nonfiction. So, for
example, I have a litigation attorney. I helped
him write and publish his first book, which is
called Confessions of an Accidental Attorney.
He loved that process so much that we now sketched
out and outlined nine more legal thrillers, and
they're all like the Jake Fox series of books.
The first one's already come out. So these, his
legal thrillers, have already got over 3 million
pages read, a dozen awards, including American
Fiction Award. And people are buying the book
in thousands. Like, I think he's got, I might
be slightly wrong on the number, 200 ,000 orders.
Like, a lot more demand for fiction than nonfiction,
because most nonfiction books have a back end
that's consulting, training, speaking, whatever.
whereas most fiction books don't necessarily
have a back end. However, what he's noticed as
a litigation attorney When corporations are deciding
who do they want to represent them for their
next big case, and they look at all of the other
very qualified litigation attorneys, but they
all kind of look like interchangeable gray land
suits. And then Michael Stockham, my client,
stands out because he's like, whoa, this guy's
a best -selling award -winning author. Like,
wow, he's got legal thrillers. Wow, you know,
he's appeared on a podcast. Oh, wow, he's even
got, you know, videos about his book. He looks
interesting. So they hire him. him because he
has a brand. He has a presence. He's interesting.
So even though it's a little less obvious how
you can use a fiction book to build your business,
I've noticed with him, oh, that actually really
works. And he's secured seven figures of new
business because he's an author. Interesting,
eh? Very interesting. So it makes you stand out.
Sometimes we're afraid of being different or...
you know, not fitting in. It goes back to how
you began this conversation with that same messaging
that gets repeated over and over. So it could
even work to your advantage to think out of the
box and let your imagination go wild, whether
it's a thriller. I could just see it now, leadership
thriller. I don't know if you know the Valuetainment
podcast host, Patrick Betts. David? I think that's
right, but David, he has two nonfiction business
books. One is like five strategies to this, that,
or the other thing. But his most recent book
is a young adult thriller. So, and it's interesting
because it goes the other way too, because I
just launched actually today on the Strategic
Basics channel, I covered three nonfiction business
bestsellers that people might want to read or
get to give for Christmas gifts. And I thought
they were great, but one of them is Disrupt.
Disrupt Everything and Win by James Patterson,
who is a thriller author, but now he's writing
nonfiction. And he's a good example of disrupting
things. So yes, I think the way to lose is to
be afraid to stick out. Because I think if you
don't stick out, that's death. It's better. It's
hard. I know. I struggle with this myself. But
it's better to be controversial. And have some
people go like, forget it. What is that person
talking about? That is so not interesting. And
have other people go, Sheila's my gal or Aurora's
my gal because they're like, wow, she really
said something. She took a stand. She's like
pro -AI. She's pro -video. She's pro -everybody
writing all kinds of different books. Take a
stand. And it's much better to appeal to 20 %
of the market who are 100 % in. then try to appeal
to 100 % of the market who are only 2 % engaged.
Wow. That's the key takeaway. So in my next book,
when I do that fiction book, I am going to dedicate
inspiration, this podcast, remember, sometime
in November. Oh, Thanksgiving. It's going to
read something like, I am grateful for that conversation
because we are near Thanksgiving. Oh, well, send
me an email and I'll buy it. I'd love to read
your new fiction book that got inspired by our
conversation. That's absolutely great. Not confessions.
I'm going to make it more, I don't know, just
leadership gone wrong. I don't know. I got to
start exploring. Well, you know, the cool thing
that most people don't realize is that the process
of writing a book is transformative in and of
itself, whether or not you publish the book.
Because you get more clear about what you care
about, what moves you, what makes you angry,
what makes you happy, what makes you joyful.
And when I interview people, I interview people
and turn it into a book. We review their whole
life. Like, what were the challenges? What were
the problems? What were the devastating moments?
And they get a chance to look at that. And go,
yeah, that sucked. But on the other hand, they
learned this and that changed my life. And then
I met this person and that was really good. So
they get a chance to integrate their history
in a way that's extraordinary and really claim
who they are and let go of pieces that didn't
serve them because they have a chance with this
new perspective from the moment that I'm helping
them create their content to let go of the past
and claim it. And they've just become more. more
clear as a human being, as a leader, as an entrepreneur.
Even if the book was never published, they would
get so much value from it. I don't know, what
did you find as you were working on your own
books even before they were published? You probably
noticed you got more clear on what you care about
and what's meaningful and what works and what
doesn't, right? So yes, actually the inspiration
for that book, like you, I went back to school
and earned a master's. Mine was 2018. And people
were questioning, well, why at this stage in
your life do you want to go back to school and
get a master's? I said, because I've always wanted
to check it off. I had all of that research and
I enjoyed the writing process. It's how I...
communicated, processed information, processed
change, because it was a time of change. I thought,
I want to share those. And I'm always thinking
legacy in terms of my children. What can I leave
them with? It's a great time to reflect. And
that's what led me to start wanting to write
and write. And even now that I'm writing every
Wednesday, I'm having a great time because I
just get thoughts out of my head. Reading, writing,
and reviewing in that way can transform your
life, your clarity, and your business. That's
beautiful. Yeah, I like it. I've enjoyed speaking
with you today, Aurora. Thank you so much for
joining me. Oh, it was such a pleasure, Sheila.
And if any of your listeners want help with their
legacy books, they can go to samepagepublishing
.com. They can get some free resources, absolutely
free. They can get the book Terminates into Wealth
and Marketing Fast Track and some videos. And
if they want even more help, they can sign up
for a free business breakthrough call at bookcall
.biz. I'd love to help them. And I'd love to
help you. Maybe we can work. I can help you with
your fiction. That'd be fun. Oh, that would be
amazing. Well, I will make sure to leave all
of the links in the comments and maybe all your
other books because you've published 10. We'll
have an election down there. Maybe you'll come
back and tell us when you've published your 11th.
Okay, I'll come back. Thanks so much, Sheila.
Thank you all for joining us. Thank you for tuning
in to another episode of Milestone Moments in
Business and Leadership. Until next time.