Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where
we explore the journeys that lead to success.
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five
Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders
and experts who will share not just their expertise,
but the milestone moments that have reshaped
their journeys and led to significant achievements.
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in
the right place. Subscribe now and discover the
milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome
to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. I'm your host, Sheila Slick.
And today, my special guest is Sabina Hutchinson.
Sabina is a scientist turned entrepreneur and
the CEO and co -founder of Seuss Plus. She's
also the author of Beyond the Ladder and host
of Be the Ripple. Through her work, she helps
leaders and organizations find clarity, confidence,
and courage in their growth journeys, transforming
uncertainty into purpose -driven impact. Welcome
to the show, Sabina. Thank you. And thanks for
that lovely introduction, Sheila. Well, I absolutely
loved the word scientist. Yes. Turned entrepreneur.
Yeah. Words that really resonate with me. That
makes you a woman in STEM. Yeah. So tell us a
little bit about. That reinvention. How did you
go from scientist to entrepreneur? To entrepreneur.
I studied chemistry. And it's interesting. Everyone
says, oh, you had this big plan to be in the
lab and to do research. And actually, I didn't.
I studied chemistry because I was interested
in it. I loved it. I loved from high school.
I liked biology and chemistry classes. And I
just loved figuring stuff out. So I was like,
okay, well, that's what I'm going to study. But
I had no grand plan of necessarily working in
research. I didn't know what I was going to do,
but loved it. And then I decided, but I didn't,
I was an entrepreneur quite a bit later. So I
did work in the science. space for quite a few
years after I graduated, but also totally different
than being in the lab. I remember having lived
on the East Coast, and I had my first interviews.
Some of them were with NIH doing research, and
quite a few of the labs were doing research on
mice. I was like, nah. So I based decisions not
to work in the lab because I was like, OK, can't
do this. So I was like, what else am I going
to do? And then I went more in the environmental
industry. And so I worked actually with disposing
hazardous chemicals. So I still use the science
and had to use my brain around that, but just
not in a bench. So your first entrepreneurial
venture was not science related? Well. I guess
the first company, when we started Zeus, I mean,
we do work in the science industry. We support
biotech companies that are in the clinical research
stage. So that's what we do. So it's science
-based, but it's a combination of business understanding
the science behind the clients that we're working
with. But I don't do typical science work every
day. No. What does it really mean? to go beyond
the ladder in your career and leadership journey?
That is a good one. And I think for me, going
beyond the ladder is stepping away from what
we hear from society or what we've potentially
heard growing up is the proper career path. I
come from a generation, we were having a chat
before we hit record about... the generation
where we come from. And I think we're somewhat
similar, maybe a little bit older. It was, you
learned, you got a job, you did this, you took
steps, you know, you grew, you went into an organization,
and it was more like a funnel. So you stayed
straight. And for me, Beyond the Ladder and Growing
Your Career is about all the zigzag moments.
So it's being able to step away from what we,
maybe intrinsically, how we were raised and what
are these traditional paths for a career. And
welcoming all the pivots. I've had wild pivots
in my career, but I would still consider myself
successful. But I just didn't do the traditional
steps. So that's what Beyond the Ladder is about
for me, is about welcoming the pivots and embracing
those. And yeah, actually being open to them.
So how can people pivot without losing momentum?
Mm -hmm. What lesson can you share to help anyone
that is looking to pivot? Yeah. I believe it's
being very aware of your skill set and knowing
where your strengths are. One of the ladies that
I interviewed for the book, I think that this
is a perfect example of actually pivoting away.
She was in an industry. She was in the finance
industry. And she worked as she worked. No, she
wasn't finance industry. She worked in finance
and she wanted to shift into a completely different
area. And she herself thought, oh, I need to
I need to adjust my salary. I need to adjust
all my expectations because I haven't taken this.
I'm not in finance taking the next step. And
it's about valuing the skill sets that you come
in to a position with and don't don't downgrade
them. Just because you're moving potentially
into another role in another industry and of
where you're traditionally coming from. So that
is also knowing your value, knowing your skills
and what you bring to the organization that you're
stepping into, being able to advocate for yourself
and feel confident in doing that. So I believe
that that's one of the lessons that's really
important is to be able to have that available.
I call it my Spotify list of skills. You know,
you're at a party and you're like, I want to
hear your song. What do I want to dance to? And
you go to your Spotify list. Well, I encourage
women in the book, I have exercises where you
actually list your skill sets and where your
strengths are because that helps you making a
pivot because then you feel confident about what
you bring into a role. And the book, tell us
a little bit more about the book. It's a collection
of stories of different women? Yeah, I interviewed
36 women, and the book is, for me, it's about
different chapters that I feel are very valuable.
I read so many different books. I think we all
have a lot of self -development and self -growth,
and I thought, okay, this is interesting, this
is interesting, and I kind of put those together.
It's about finding your network, how to manage
your network, how to embrace it and to build
it, how to find a sponsor or a mentor or a coach,
how to brand yourself, how to... work according
to your values. So it's a mix of ideas and concepts
about what is important to help you develop in
your career. And the workbook helps you actually
do practical pieces. So I'm a very practical
person because if I read something, I don't know
about you, but it helps when I write things down.
And that helps embed and it makes things sticky
for me. So that's what the book is about, is
about giving you some theory around thinking
about your skill sets and what you're really
great at, but then actually jotting them down
and then writing them down from a different perspective,
like asking your friends, asking coworkers, asking
a manager, what am I great at? Because that is
another perspective that's important when you
reflect upon yourself. So the book is a lot of
stories from these women. that shared how they
developed their careers and what was important
for them. Some women talked about how they defined
their network, that they have buckets of people
that they use. I don't mean to say uses, that
they use them in a negative sense, but that they
tap into and they need different support. Each
woman is embedded, her story is embedded in one
of the chapters that reflects that chapter's
theme. Share the title of the book. It's called
Beyond the Ladder. I know we're not on video,
but it's Beyond the Ladder, A Woman's Career
Guide to Clarity, Impact, and Legacy. I love
the title. Yeah, I do too. And then the workbook
is the same, but it's, yeah, but again, it's
filled with space to write. and time that you
should take for yourself, I think, to reflect.
I've been writing a lot and with... Pencil feels
like a novelty right after all this typing. I
totally agree. And I think, for instance, if
I also if I'm working on a keynote or if I'm
working on speaking, I write things out because
that helps me kind of embedded in myself. So
if I find if I just am typing that it's a different
reaction in my head of what sticks and what doesn't.
Yes, I'm a big fan of writing. I love paper and
books anyway. So, yeah, I started writing more
to level out my. Tech with my thoughts. Yeah,
that is a nice thing to do to balance it out,
not do it all on the computer. So here I've got
that you're the queen of reinvention. I understand
that I need to share that crown with you. I've
been told I love reinvention. I think you can
do it at any age. I hope you can. Well, Sheila,
I just turned 60 and I just published a book.
You know, I never thought that I would do something
like that. I started the Ripple Network, this
platform for women. I wrote my first TED Talk.
I did all of these things in the last couple
of years. So I would totally believe that it's
never, we shouldn't, I don't think we should
constrain ourself with age. Definitely not. But
for me, reinvention has happened constantly.
You know, if I think about my studies, I studied
chemistry and then I was like not going to work
and research in a lab. I had a great job. was
visited from a friend in college and he was working
for the magician David Copperfield. And I left
my job and sold my house and put my stuff in
storage to go on tour with David Copperfield.
That was really fun. And it was something that
I just, like instinctually, I just needed to
do it. I felt like everyone thought I'd lost
my mind because I had a good job. I had a house.
I was like, you know. I guess, living the life.
Again, you know, what kind of society says is
a successful life? And I just did that. And thank
God that I did because that's where, when we
were on tour in Europe, that's where I met my
now husband and how I ended up living in Germany
where I am now for 28 years. So thank goodness
that I listened to myself and listened to my
instincts and did that. How interesting though.
So you were on the road, right? I was literally
on the road. Like on a tour, you know, from show
to show. On a tour. Yeah. I had a tour. I was
on a tour bus. Oh, my goodness. Two suitcases
and that's it. But it was fun. It was such, such,
such a great experience. Well, I like how you
said they thought you lost your mind. I've heard
the, is it a midlife crisis? Yeah. I'd hear it
at 30, at 40, at 50. When someone just wants
to try something completely new. Well, I've been
an entrepreneur since. pretty much what I've
been my entire life since the age of 22. And
I've gone from construction, retail jewelry to
technology. And there's been a lot of, you know,
detours along the way. A lot of products or companies
that we tried starting that perhaps weren't as
successful. You look back sometimes and you laugh.
And so you have to try. You have. I am so with
you. So you're definitely a fellow reinventionist.
Is that a word? Because that's what it's about.
It's about trying these new things. And I always
think, you know, I ask myself when I'm when when
I'm making a decision, I ask myself, what if
I don't do this? What's the impact? Will I have
a regret? I never want to have a regret. And
and that's how I try to make decisions. Obviously,
not completely. you know, wild and not thought
through. They are thought through. Sometimes
I think individuals, when we make these kind
of decisions and go in different areas that people
think, ah, you know, it's not struck, it's not
well thought through, but it is. It just, it's
just different. And I think that that's, I think
that's a good place to be personally for me.
It's not for everybody, but it's definitely for
me. When you're thinking of an idea, or I even
thought about buying a business early on this
year. She had been in business about 35 years
and was retiring, and it was, I thought, maybe
my next phase. And I went really deep for two
weeks, and my family and my friends were like,
interesting choice. I'm like, well, it's a business.
It's already been built. It's a bit different
than what I've been doing. And after Being hands
-on after those two weeks, and I spent hours
literally meeting with the suppliers and learning
a lot of things, I came to the realization that
that wasn't for me. So it wasn't a crazy idea.
It was part of the process of learning and experimenting
and doing that business plan, even though the
numbers could have worked out. It just wasn't
something that I... in the end thought, this
is what I want to do my next 10 or 15 years.
And so that's how I explain it. It's part of
the process. It's almost like elimination, right?
Right. And that's the thing is what sounds for
other people like, whoa, what is that shift?
It is actually a thought through process. And
obviously, you went into this very intense, deep
process, and then you decided not to. I think
that that's what it's about. It's about taking
the time to actually try to figure that out.
And even if it is an idea that isn't, quote,
typical or something, that, yeah, that enjoyment
with the city is normal. Exactly. But, you know,
that is. That's such an old statement, but it
is about enjoying the journey. You're right.
I think it'd be kind of fun to go on tour for
a good year now. Showing my new app? Yeah. There
you go. So what would you say? That your pivots
have taught you about resilience and growth.
Well, resilience is just about getting up again
and again every day and keeping going. And, you
know, I've had lots of, I've had, as you said,
you also have. Not everything is a big success.
Right now I'm sharing about some of the things
that have been really successful. But I also
had two ventures that didn't work out. And that
left heartache and that left financial loss and
frustration and pondering, what am I doing? I
mean, those are all things that you question
when things don't work out. But for me, this
resilience piece is just... Really trying your
best to take that and learn from it and go, okay,
if I embed this into the next time that I do
something, or how is this going to add value
or make me just a little bit wiser in the next
decisions that I make? And to not, I think some
people potentially... have a failure or take
a risk and it doesn't work out and they go oh
well there you go never again but that was one
time and that doesn't mean that the next time
is going to have the same result so it's just
really being open to that and And giving it a
try. As long as you, again, you've kind of weighed
out for yourself and you think that it's something
that works and that you have, you know, if it's
an adventure, if it's a new venture or a new
company, are you financially able to take care
of things? Obviously, we need to think about
those things. But to not be so afraid and to
live with regret, I think that those are the
things that kind of help you keep going and be
resilient. That's a beautiful message. So where
can we find you online? Where can we buy your
book? SabinaHutchison .com. The book is there.
And you can also find me in LinkedIn as well.
I'll make sure to leave the URL in the comment.
Thank you. And thank you so much for joining
me today, Sabina. Sheila, great. And you have
to let me know when you do your tour. I'll follow
you. I know, or my first stop. You know what?
It's going to be international. It's going to
be Germany. Germany, come to Hamburg. It's a
great city. Love it. Well, thank you all for
tuning in for another episode of Milestone Moments
in Business and Leadership. Until next time.