Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where
we explore the journeys that lead to success.
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five
Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders
and experts who will share not just their expertise,
but the milestone moments that have reshaped
their journeys and led to significant achievements.
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in
the right place. Subscribe now and discover the
milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome
to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. I'm your host, Sheila Slick.
And today, my special guest is Chris Major. He's
the founder and CEO of the Human Potential Project.
He's a modern -day entrepreneur, an Amazon best
-selling author, and a social innovator. With
over three decades of experience, he has led
transformational change initiatives for global
organizations, including AT &T, Microsoft, Intel.
Cargill, and Allianz Life. A former rugby player
with a master's degree, Chris began his career
developing training systems for athletes and
then later collaborated with the U .S. Army and
Special Forces to design new methods of performance
training. His groundbreaking approach, commitment
-based management, helps organizations unlock
human potential and achieve extraordinary results.
He is also the author of The Power to Transform
Your New Future Awaits. Welcome to the show,
Chris. Thanks very much. Happy to be here. You're
a tough man. I just read that intro. Who is that
guy? Yeah, wow. Well, so you've gone from teaching
hand -to -hand combat to Marines. to leading
billion -dollar transformations at companies
like Microsoft and Intel. What's one common thread
in human performance that applies whether you're
trading special forces or Fortune 500 executives?
That's a good one. Well, if there's one thing
that continuously kind of stands out and needs
reinforcement, it's... I can summarize it as
you can't change if you don't learn and you can't
learn if you don't change. And while that sounds
simple, where we get ourselves bollocked up is
we're stuck. We as a society are stuck in a very
outdated view of what learning is. And we're
getting more and more away from the actual what
it takes. When we talk about learning, most people
think of, well, learning is the acquisition of,
you know, theories, models, information, data,
all for the sake of gaining understanding, because
understanding is the holy grail. And my retort
is, well, that might work and might be true when
you're in college. But outside of that, in the
performance world, understanding is the booby
prize. It doesn't matter what you understand.
What we know in working with athletes and soldiers
and executives is what matters is what can you
do. And our product that we put out into the
world is what we call embodied competence. Embodied
means you can take the new action without having
to stop, think about it, or look it up in some
book. And competence is simply the capacity to
consistently produce the desired result. Sounds
simple. Here's the part, though, that scrambles
everybody's eggs. So while your mind understands,
and understanding can, in fact, occur in an instant,
in the end, it's your body that learns. Your
mind understands, but it's your body that learns.
And the body only learns one way, and that's
through practice. And practice takes time. No
amount of understanding ever produced competence
in anything. Only practice does. So the theme
that's central through all of our work with athletes,
soldiers, and everything is there's no instant
solution. It's simply a matter of can we design
and put in place new practices that produce different
results for you, right? We all know the old adage,
you know, repeating the behaviors of the past
and expecting something different is the definition
of insanity. And yet we do that. Now, people
can understand what I just said real clearly
when we look at anything athletic. Well, sure.
What are most athletes, you know, high level
athletes spend all of their time, most of their
time training. They spend way more time training
and practicing than they do actually playing
the game. And everybody can go, oh yeah, yeah,
we get that. But we somehow think it's different
when it comes to developing leadership or management
or any of those other things that we need on
a continually recurring basis in the business
world. You know, we do just the opposite. So
what we work about is long -term practice development
and In our, quote, flagship program, it's not
a day or two days. It's nine months long. Now,
obviously not all at once, but in doses that
build on each other with coaching and so forth
and so on. But it's all about building practices
regardless of what domain you're working in.
I'm still processing that. That is very deep.
Mm -hmm. Thinging it through. Sorry, we'll give
you a minute here while you process that. Oh,
I need more than a minute. First words that came
to mind was practice makes perfect. How do you
repeatedly practice using the mind as well, not
just? Well, there's a problem with that adage.
So, you know, we can go down this rabbit hole
a little bit. But as I say, like I said, look,
let's take a simple analogy. A lot of executives
play golf. And I said, okay. Let's say for the
sake of this conversation, you have made a commitment
to make a dramatic improvement in your golf game.
Okay, okay. What are you going to do? I'm going
to go to the range and practice. And I say, okay.
So you want to go get better at being bad. What?
Well, you already said your game is not sufficient.
So why would you go practice that which is insufficient?
All you're going to do is more deeply embed that
which isn't working. And they're kind of like,
huh? I said, if you're serious about improving,
you're going to get a coach because the coach
can see you in ways you can't see yourself. A
coach is a better observer and can make interventions
with you that you can't do. It's just not possible
for anybody without no reflection on you personally.
So you go and you meet with the coach and what's
the coach going to say? She'll say, okay, let
me see you take some shots. And you do, you know,
five, six, whatever. And she'll say, okay, let's
change your grip a little bit. Move your feet
this way. Stand up this way. Now take some shots.
What happens to those next few shots? They're
complete crap, right? Why? Because it's new.
It's awkward. It's uncomfortable. Your mind's
going, yeah, I don't like this. And your little
whiner starts going, right? And if the coach
wasn't standing right there over you, what you
and 99 % of the people would do is go back to
doing it the way you did because that was more
comfortable. And the problem and the reason why
most adults, frankly, don't ever learn anything
is we're more committed to being comfortable
than we are to actually learning. I like everything
you're saying. Well, now you're pioneering AI
integration in your consulting after decades
of this human performance. What is one insight
about AI that you think? humans are missing right
now? Well, right now, I think we really need
to understand a little historical perspective.
And so let me give you a little history lesson,
and then we'll come to the bottom line here.
So if you go back in time to the 40s, you know,
late 40s after the war, the dominant media in
the country was radio, right? Everything we got
was over the radio, over the radio, over the
radio. And there was a radio host whose name
escapes me right now, but in like 1949, he was
making over a million dollars a year. That was
serious money, you know, in those days. By 1952,
he was off the air. What happened? TV. TV showed
up. Ah. Now, here's the pop quiz. What's the
very first thing they put on TV? Either news,
cartoons, or like a game show. Close, but no
cigar. The answer is radio shows. The very first
thing they put on TV was radio shows. Because
in the old days, radio shows, I mean, they had
actors and sound effects, you know, and they
did little skits and plays. And nobody really
understood the potential that TV held, so they
did what they already knew how to do. They put
radio shows on TV, and then it eventually morphed
into what we have today. And it was, oh, we'll
never see such a great technological revolution
like that again. And then the Internet showed
up. Now, same question. What's the very first
thing they put on the Internet? The answer is
not TV shows, so don't. Yeah, no, I'm thinking
Google. Well, way before Google. The answer is
catalogs. The very first thing that they used
the internet for was catalogs. Nobody wanted
to keep printing all day. You used to be awash
in these catalogs from everybody, right? So the
very first thing they put on the internet was
catalogs because that's what we already knew
how to do. Nobody saw the potential for linking
and building communities and all the stuff that
we now know is possible. And yes, yes, everybody
always wants to point out that, yeah, porn was
the second thing they put on the internet, but
that's not the point. And now today, you know,
We've got AI. And just like with TV, everybody
said, oh, we'll never see such a technological
evolution, you know, as the internet. Well, now
we've got AI. And everybody needs to remember
that it's early, early days with AI. We have
no idea what's really going to come down the
road, what's really possible. So we're using
AI to kind of do what we already know how to
do. And I'm not saying we're missing, we just,
we haven't explored deeply what's possible here
because the technology. is so brand new you know
you know so we'll we'll either uh you know end
up with um you know some arnold schwarzeneggerite
you know bizarre future or this really will open
doors that we can't even imagine right now and
on the other side you have to remember people
are kind of afraid of AI. And to some extent,
I'm not saying it's not merited, but think about
this. The scientists tell us that as human beings,
we're maybe utilizing 10, 20, 30 % of our capacity,
our brain capacity. Well, out of that 30%, we
built AI. And it's got less than our full capacity.
So I remember we got a little kind of a slice
of knowledge and wisdom. here. So we just need
to be mindful of all that and let AI do what
it can really do well right now, which is kind
of the mindless repetitive stuff that human beings,
it's not like we can't do it, but there's no
joy in sitting around doing, you know, putting
the stamp on this piece of paper, moving it over
to that stack, right? People are not feeling,
you know, ennobled by that. So let the AI do
that. And let people do what we're really better
at. AI is never going to be able to build relationships.
It's never going to be able to look at you and
talk about trust and all the kind of stuff that
are essential for us as human beings. You keep
getting me to think. Oh, no. No, I love it. I'm
learning a little bit about history. You even
got me with those questions. But even with the
catalog, before I move on to the next question.
You still needed to be able to search those catalogs.
So for me, it was the search engine that really
revolutionized. That was the big revolution.
When the catalogs first came out, all you got
was like a PDF of the Sears catalog or the auto
parts catalog or the electronics catalog. You
still had to do the very same thing, but now
you did it on a screen instead of in a book that
they'd sent to you. So back to AI, what is the
first question a leader should ask themselves
before implementing AI in their business? Well,
let's see. The first question, of course, is
for the sake of what? For the sake of what am
I wanting to utilize AI? If what you're wanting
to do, for example, I'm working with an AI company
that's built a platform. to streamline the operations
of medical practices. One of the biggest causes
of burnout in the medical field is all the drudgery
and repetitive paperwork. You know, doctors are
spending hours doing charts. And, you know, you
go to the doctor's office and get a clipboard
and get all these damn forms. And every single
time, you got to do it again and again and again.
Well, what we don't know is that when you get
done with your little clipboard, you hand it
in to a nurse. Somebody's got to go and enter
all that data by hand. into a computer. It's
a highly mistake -prone process and mind -numbing.
So as we say, let's let AI do what it can do
best. So they've developed a process where AI
does all that stuff, right? And so people in
the healthcare professions didn't go to school
to be data clerks. They went to school to be
able to take care of people. So let's let AI
do what it's... doing best, let the people do
what they do best. So the question is always
for the sake of what, if you're thinking that
you're going to implement AI and save a bunch
of money, you might, but you have to be mindful
of, again, at what cost, not just economic. So,
you know, you go in and you eliminate, I'm making
up numbers now, 10, 15, 20 % of your workforce.
Okay. Woo -hoo. Okay, so you saved a bunch of
money, but what did that cost you in terms of
the mood and morale of the rest of the people?
And instead of replacing people, so back to my
little AI company that I'm working with, which
we tell people, we're not job eliminators, we're
job liberators. We liberate you from the mindless
drudgery aspect and free up your time so you
can do things that are more productive, more
value generating. You know, we've developed now
a corporate mindset that's, you know, new in
the last couple of generations. It didn't used
to be this way, but we now treat people as an
expendable commodity. There's no, in the old
days, you know, if things got a little rough,
we didn't lay off thousands of people. You sucked
it up, you know, and Wall Street could. Kissed
my butt for a couple quarters while we got through
this rough stuff. Now, oh, no, we've got to make
our numbers. Well, where does it say that? Who
says that we have to make it? Well, my Wall Street
analyst. Well, screw him, right? He's not here
helping you, you know, when things go tough.
So when they say, well, you didn't make your
numbers, I made my numbers. I didn't make your
numbers. Those are two different things. You
know, I value the people. in the business. So
instead of getting rid of them, I'm going to
find things that they can do that's more productive
that generate more revenue, right? We're going
to put them into more revenue producing. Fiddling
around with drudgery paperwork does not generate
revenue. So the critical question is always,
for the sake of what am I wanting to implement
AI? Or is it just because everybody else is doing
it? Oh, all the cool kids are. Well, that's not
a good enough reason. And so? You've trekked
Africa, Alaska, and the Amazon while pushing
the boundaries of human potential in business.
How does physical adventure shape the way that
you approach risk and innovation in your consulting
work? Ooh, you're just all full of good questions
today. So here's how I see it. You know, I teach
all this stuff. So I get in front of a group
of... whatever number you want, 100, 200 executives.
And we can talk about risk -taking and they'll
all smile and nod. Oh yes, we need to be more
risk -taking and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And
then they'll walk out of that room. And the first
time something kind of risky shows up, they'll
all panic and tighten up and close down and,
oh my God, you know, clutch their pearls. And
I'm like, because once again, we've confused
understanding with competence. So risk -taking.
to some extent, is a competence. You have to
develop the capacity to deal with the emotions
that show up, because what is the risk? Well,
risk is fear, right? What are you afraid of?
Well, whatever it is. And so we do, in our work,
we do a whole lot of experiential stuff, right?
So again, I can talk about it all day, but until
you have the experience of pushing your limitations
and going through, it's just talk. So for me
personally, my philosophy is I can't teach things
that I'm not willing to do myself. So we did
a lot of ropes courses. So I'd get people and
we'd be down at the bottom of this pole and they're
looking up this 40 -foot tall pole. They're going
to climb up and stand up on this little wobbly
disc and jump out and catch a trapeze. And they're
all like, I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't
do it. Let's just take a breath. And we have
a methodology for teaching them how to what we
call center. Get in your body, right? Feel your
feet. And here's the goal of the exercise. I
couldn't care less. If you get to the top, if
you catch the trapeze, doesn't matter. What I
want is I want you to go to wherever your edge
is. What's the edge for you? It might just be
two steps up the ladder, right? But I want you
to go that and then take one more step. That's
it. Just go one step beyond what you thought
was possible. Just to be clear, before you're
taking these steps, you've got a parachute harness
on with three belay lines on it, each of which
has a 1 ,500 -pound test. So as I tell people,
you're safer here than you are walking across
the street in most cities. Even if you're suicidal,
you're not going to hurt yourself. But because
your mind can't see all that stuff and your body's
kind of going... Now, all that is you're oblivious
to it. So, you know, they'll climb up, you know,
however far they climb. And, okay, are you at
the limit? Yeah, well, yeah. Okay, good. Now,
just take one more step. Okay, okay. Okay, I
did it. Now, can I come down? Well, now that
you're there, you know, let's take one more.
And we'll go through this process and we'll get
them up on top of this thing. And they'll dive
out and, you know, they'll catch the thing or
not. Again, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
But you get them down on the ground, and this
is the joy of this work, is there's a moment,
and there's a brief window, and you can see.
You've got to know what you're looking for, but
you can see it in their eyes when their whole
reality just shifted. I said, okay, right now,
let's stop, let's look. Look up there. See that
trapeze? You told me two minutes ago. That you
could not do that. You were absolutely certain
that you could not do that. Now, we now have
irrefutable evidence that not only can you, you
did. You did. It's not me telling you you can.
It's not some motivational pablum like, oh boy,
you actually did something you thought was impossible.
Yeah. Okay. Now, here's what I want you to consider.
What if what you think is impossible is just
something you made up? There's no impossible
out there. Impossible is a limitation that you
put on yourself. Now, where else in your life
are you thinking that there's something that's
impossible? You can't possibly have this quality
of relationship or you can't possibly have, you
know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you can watch their face go, oh my God. Yeah,
you've made up a life of restriction, but that's
the key phrase. You made it up. There's no restrictions,
solid, permanent out there in the world. They're
the things that you make up and let them become
real for you. And once you understand that, your
life's never going to be the same. Once you get
that in your body, again, I can talk to you till
I'm blue in the face, never going to make a difference.
But once you've had that experience, so for me,
it's the same thing. I've got to have that experience
of pushing and pushing and pushing to be able
to, with integrity, Tell other people about it.
So you serve organizations, you do one -on -one
consulting, and where can we find you online?
So yes, yes, one -on -one coaching. We do organizational
transformations, you know, little ones all the
way up to big ones. You can find us at humanpotentialproject
.com. It's the corporate site. I do speaking
engagements at chrismajor .com. You mentioned
the book, The Power to Transform, which is basically
a condensation of the fundamentals that we teach
in every program. Amazon is the best place to
get that. I used to sell them through the website,
but to be blunt about it, Amazon gets them cheaper
and faster, so you might as well do that. And
we're just about to launch a new online leadership
program. I'd tell you where to find it, but we
haven't quite got done branding it yet. So sometime
in the next four to six weeks, we'll be turning
that loose on the world. You'll be able to see
about it. I mean, we'll announce it on the website
and so forth. And I'll make sure to leave all
the links in the comments so that people can
click and contact you or learn more. There you
go. Well, thank you so much for joining me today,
Chris. This was a fascinating episode. My pleasure.
And thank you all for tuning in to another episode
of Milestone Moments in Business and Leadership.
Until next time.