WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.199 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.859 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.100 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.800 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.120 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.059 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.359 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.560 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:40.179 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:40.179 --> 00:00:43.539 to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:00:43.539 --> 00:00:46.240 and Leadership. I'm Sheila Slick, your host. 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:50.700 And today, my special guest is Tom Healy. Tom 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:54.600 is co -founder of PeopleOps360, where he helps 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.719 CEOs and business owners turn people challenges 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.960 into performance breakthroughs by giving them 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:04.340 the playbook of world -class HR and leadership 00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:07.680 systems. His people performance frameworks have 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.959 been used by the U .S. Navy, Harvard Medical 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.659 School, and multiple Fortune 500 companies, reaching 00:01:15.659 --> 00:01:19.829 more than 1 million learners. A serial entrepreneur 00:01:19.829 --> 00:01:23.590 and author of five books, Tom has delivered over 00:01:23.590 --> 00:01:28.650 1 ,000 presentations that blend strategy, candor, 00:01:28.689 --> 00:01:32.469 and humor to make leadership practical, measurable, 00:01:32.769 --> 00:01:36.969 and human. Welcome to the show, Tom. Thanks for 00:01:36.969 --> 00:01:39.689 having me. Appreciate it. That's quite an impressive 00:01:39.689 --> 00:01:43.230 introduction. So as a serial entrepreneur, I'd 00:01:43.230 --> 00:01:45.549 love to learn a little bit about your journey. 00:01:45.609 --> 00:01:48.980 What led you to start? this particular company. 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:52.159 All right. So it all started when I was in the 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:54.140 first grade. No, I'm just kidding. We won't go 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:58.500 that far back, but I'll start with college. I 00:01:58.500 --> 00:02:02.060 was. the heavily involved student leader. So 00:02:02.060 --> 00:02:05.780 I got to college, didn't really know what I wanted 00:02:05.780 --> 00:02:08.759 to do, wasn't that involved in high school, but 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:10.939 for whatever reason, I got super involved as 00:02:10.939 --> 00:02:13.479 a student leader, did a million different things, 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:17.360 ran boards, got involved in associations, and 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:22.500 that really... sparked my interest in the idea 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:25.719 of human potential and what people are capable 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.060 of if they align their passions and their strengths. 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:33.139 And that experience led me to graduate from college 00:02:33.139 --> 00:02:36.659 and write a book for college students. And so 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:39.379 if this were happening now, I may have started 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:41.919 a podcast or a YouTube channel or done something 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:45.930 else. 20 years ago, you wrote a book. So I sat 00:02:45.930 --> 00:02:47.710 there and I wrote a book called The Course They 00:02:47.710 --> 00:02:50.349 Forgot to Offer. And the idea was all the things 00:02:50.349 --> 00:02:53.229 that they didn't teach us in college that I wish 00:02:53.229 --> 00:02:55.550 they would have. And I didn't approach it as 00:02:55.550 --> 00:02:57.409 a no at all. I just said, look, this is what 00:02:57.409 --> 00:03:00.930 I wish I would have known. And then I interviewed 00:03:00.930 --> 00:03:04.090 probably a thousand different people and said, 00:03:04.189 --> 00:03:05.969 what would you have done differently in your 00:03:05.969 --> 00:03:09.009 20s? What do you wish you would have known? The 00:03:09.009 --> 00:03:12.310 answers were just incredibly. vulnerable and 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:15.189 powerful. And so I used those to shape the book. 00:03:15.289 --> 00:03:18.430 I profiled what successful people did. And then 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:20.469 that book gave me the credibility to do what 00:03:20.469 --> 00:03:22.509 I really wanted to do, which was speak on college 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:25.969 campuses. So I started speaking on college campuses. 00:03:26.129 --> 00:03:28.370 I was the leadership speaker. They'd bring me 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:31.330 in for an orientation or for a leadership conference 00:03:31.330 --> 00:03:34.810 and pack the auditorium. And I would talk about 00:03:34.810 --> 00:03:38.229 how to reach your potential. And based on that 00:03:38.229 --> 00:03:41.750 work, companies started asking me, hey, Tom, 00:03:41.909 --> 00:03:44.830 we're having trouble with our younger talent. 00:03:45.689 --> 00:03:48.750 We're not getting the most out of them. And it 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:50.969 might be a recruitment problem. It might be a 00:03:50.969 --> 00:03:53.129 training problem. It might be a retention problem, 00:03:53.210 --> 00:03:56.009 but something's broken here. And so I started 00:03:56.009 --> 00:03:59.789 working with companies on their, I'd call it 00:03:59.789 --> 00:04:02.250 human capital strategies, right? How do we put 00:04:02.250 --> 00:04:04.469 the right people in the right seats and get them 00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:07.349 to succeed and set them up for success and keep 00:04:07.349 --> 00:04:09.939 them here for many, many years? And so in my 00:04:09.939 --> 00:04:13.020 20s, that was the work I was doing, college campuses 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:15.659 and with companies, and literally crisscrossing 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:18.800 the United States on flights, over 125 nights 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:22.060 of business travel. And as you can probably imagine, 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.240 and maybe I know some people love that, I didn't. 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.519 I got burnt out. I hit a wall. It was lonely. 00:04:28.699 --> 00:04:31.019 It was isolating. It was kind of depressing. 00:04:31.579 --> 00:04:33.800 And I just thought, I can't keep doing this. 00:04:34.860 --> 00:04:38.339 Over the course of about 12 months, I transitioned 00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:41.399 the work I was doing, the relationships I had 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.519 from in -person brick and mortar speaking, consulting 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.959 workshops to be online learning. And so for. 00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:53.379 12 years or so now, I've been in the online learning 00:04:53.379 --> 00:04:57.579 space of without physically being in an office 00:04:57.579 --> 00:05:00.660 or on a college campus, how do I transfer knowledge? 00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:04.220 And it's led to building a lot of coursework. 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:06.779 It's led to going into companies and nonprofits 00:05:06.779 --> 00:05:10.560 and trade associations and building out internal 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.040 knowledge centers. And then more recently, that 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:18.899 evolved into providing what we now call People 00:05:18.899 --> 00:05:21.740 Ops 360, which is essentially giving a company 00:05:21.740 --> 00:05:27.060 typically between about 15 to 100 employees with 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:30.600 access to a Fortune 1000 HR department. So how 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.459 do you get the recruiting resources and the onboarding 00:05:33.459 --> 00:05:38.079 resources and the payroll resources of a Fortune 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:40.860 1000 company when you may not even be able to 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.240 hire one full -time person to do that? So that's 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:45.259 kind of the journey. And obviously there's a 00:05:45.259 --> 00:05:48.720 lot of little... wins and losses over those 20 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:50.680 years. But that's how I got to where I am now. 00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:53.920 Well, that's very impressive. And so young, you 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:58.560 seemed right on ball. And that's very impressive 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:02.720 to think how you even published the book on what 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.620 I wish they would have taught in college or what 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:09.579 I didn't learn in college. And so. And, you know, 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:12.819 I'm proud of that book because if you open it 00:06:12.819 --> 00:06:15.990 up now. Almost 20 years later, I still think 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:19.449 it holds up. I mean, the advice still holds true. 00:06:19.649 --> 00:06:22.029 You know, do something that you're passionate 00:06:22.029 --> 00:06:24.250 about. Focus on your strengths. Pick the right 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:27.689 place to live. Leverage your network. Be a nice 00:06:27.689 --> 00:06:31.189 person. Organize your personal finances appropriately. 00:06:31.589 --> 00:06:34.550 I mean, all these things still need to be taught. 00:06:34.649 --> 00:06:37.250 And certainly there's still issues with all of 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:40.990 them, with today's younger people and younger 00:06:40.990 --> 00:06:44.709 workforce. So you can always update it if it 00:06:44.709 --> 00:06:47.110 wasn't. It just sounds evergreen after hearing 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:49.470 your description. Well, it's funny. I would have 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:52.290 never thought it was evergreen. But then every 00:06:52.290 --> 00:06:54.769 once in a while, I'll see it sitting around and 00:06:54.769 --> 00:06:57.610 I'll just open up a page and start reading. It 00:06:57.610 --> 00:07:00.269 really is. I mean, even the parts about LinkedIn 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:02.629 and leveraging your network. Well, no one else 00:07:02.629 --> 00:07:05.709 has come along to knock LinkedIn off. So it's 00:07:05.709 --> 00:07:08.420 still relevant, which is which is fun. Oh, I 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:11.379 love that. So why do you believe that most CEOs 00:07:11.379 --> 00:07:16.019 don't have a real people strategy? And how does 00:07:16.019 --> 00:07:19.079 that hold their business back? So over the last 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:21.600 few years, I've come to the realization, first 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:24.379 of all, and maybe I'm slow and it took me too 00:07:24.379 --> 00:07:27.740 long to figure this out, but the plumbing company's 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:32.420 core competency is not. HR and human capital 00:07:32.420 --> 00:07:34.740 strategies, and it's not training and it's not 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:38.360 recruiting. The software company, the bakery, 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:41.660 the pizza shop, they're really good at what they're 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:45.199 really good at, but they probably didn't start 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:50.750 a multiple location pizza chain. Because they 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:53.810 had a strong HR background and loved building 00:07:53.810 --> 00:07:56.850 training and onboarding and recruiting the right 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:59.250 people, right? They probably did it because they 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:01.189 were really good at baking pizzas and people 00:08:01.189 --> 00:08:03.829 said, you should open up your own shop, right? 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:08.189 So it's the realization that it's just not a 00:08:08.189 --> 00:08:12.470 core competency. What maybe I think is common 00:08:12.470 --> 00:08:15.649 sense around developing people and training people 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:18.670 and setting people up for success and evaluating 00:08:18.670 --> 00:08:20.769 if someone is the right fit for your organization. 00:08:20.870 --> 00:08:23.750 Those things I may think, well, it's simple, 00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:27.689 but I've been doing this for 20 years. So that's 00:08:27.689 --> 00:08:30.769 the first thing is the realization that it's 00:08:30.769 --> 00:08:34.269 not most organizations core competency. The other 00:08:34.269 --> 00:08:38.009 thing is, and I want to try to be polite in how 00:08:38.009 --> 00:08:42.429 I say this, but. In my experience, and working 00:08:42.429 --> 00:08:45.730 with hundreds and hundreds of companies and CEOs, 00:08:45.889 --> 00:08:54.669 I believe most companies do not properly value 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:59.350 their workforce and understand the importance 00:08:59.350 --> 00:09:03.549 that people play in their business. So you can 00:09:03.549 --> 00:09:07.480 go to the log cabin in December. build out the 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.960 strategy for the organization, fill the walls 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:14.919 with all the X's and O's and lofty goals and 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.340 strategy and pricing and all that fun stuff. 00:09:18.659 --> 00:09:21.840 But if you don't have really, really good people 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.639 that are motivated and well -trained and have 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.220 the resources to do their job and are financially 00:09:28.220 --> 00:09:30.799 motivated to do that job and have the skill set 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.440 to do that job, your strategy will not get executed. 00:09:34.700 --> 00:09:38.950 And I don't... believe CEOs and leaders in organizations 00:09:38.950 --> 00:09:43.350 understand how important people are. And so what 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:46.289 happens is you can do a lot of things right. 00:09:46.370 --> 00:09:49.169 You can have a great product. You can do incredible 00:09:49.169 --> 00:09:52.370 marketing. You can position it really well. But 00:09:52.370 --> 00:09:55.389 if you don't have the people to sell it. to service 00:09:55.389 --> 00:09:58.309 it, to be customer facing. They're not getting 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:00.570 along. They're not working well. You don't have 00:10:00.570 --> 00:10:03.370 managers holding people accountable. It all falls 00:10:03.370 --> 00:10:06.929 apart. And then what happens is the CEO goes, 00:10:07.129 --> 00:10:10.289 well, it must just be a downtime in our industry. 00:10:10.470 --> 00:10:13.490 It must be our competitor. Our pricing must be 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:16.149 wrong. And not that those things can't be factors, 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:19.370 but so often it's, you understand that what you're 00:10:19.370 --> 00:10:22.919 trying to build is an excellent company. And 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.440 you have very, very mediocre people executing 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.019 that. It's not going to happen. Or there are 00:10:30.019 --> 00:10:32.580 really good people that are high potential, but 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:35.600 you have not set them up for success. So that's 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:40.559 typically what I see. So how do you feel in today's 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:44.179 day and age where AI is taking on some of these 00:10:44.179 --> 00:10:46.539 human positions? Because I think it's more important 00:10:46.539 --> 00:10:48.600 than ever, the message that you just shared. 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:51.639 Because even if you have the best software out 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:55.129 there, That lack of that human connection leads 00:10:55.129 --> 00:10:58.149 to frustration and perhaps even boycott the company 00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:04.350 because of the lack of the person and that customer 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:07.850 service, right? Being able to get hold of a human 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:10.629 rather than filling out a form where it's going 00:11:10.629 --> 00:11:13.090 to revise by perhaps even a different agent, 00:11:13.309 --> 00:11:18.100 AI agent. Yeah. And I'll preface this by saying 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:21.419 I'm all in on AI. I'm one of those people that 00:11:21.419 --> 00:11:23.919 thinks it's going to disrupt every industry, 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:27.139 every sector. It's going to change the makeup 00:11:27.139 --> 00:11:29.360 of the workforce. It's going to change the work 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.399 that people do, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:37.169 That being said, it's not, I think. A lot of 00:11:37.169 --> 00:11:40.730 people oversimplify this and frankly are wrong 00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:45.289 when they say AI will do what people do now and 00:11:45.289 --> 00:11:48.370 people will not be needed. I disagree with that 00:11:48.370 --> 00:11:51.990 premise. What I do think is your organization 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:56.470 is going to need people that can leverage AI, 00:11:56.710 --> 00:12:00.470 that can use AI tools, that are willing to... 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:05.289 work themselves out of their current job by leveraging 00:12:05.289 --> 00:12:08.970 AI so that they can create a new and more impactful 00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:13.970 job for themselves. So if I were running a company 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:19.529 right now that had 50 employees, I'd be thinking, 00:12:19.570 --> 00:12:23.230 how do I get each of them using AI, leveraging 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:29.590 AI, solving problems through AI? Because if they 00:12:29.590 --> 00:12:32.860 do that, then our company functions better. What 00:12:32.860 --> 00:12:36.000 I do see is I see companies that say, we're not 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.659 using AI. Do not use it. We're putting a ban 00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:41.700 on it. If we catch you using it, you're fired. 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:46.440 I disagree with that approach. The other thing 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.639 I see is I see companies that have created so 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.860 much fear in their people that they're afraid 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.399 to use AI or they're afraid to speak up about 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.320 using AI because they fear that they're going 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:04.110 to lose their job. So as a leader in an organization, 00:13:04.409 --> 00:13:09.110 my message would be use AI, solve problems through 00:13:09.110 --> 00:13:14.690 AI. Once you do, tell us what you've done and 00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:18.110 we'll find more work for you to do. We'll find 00:13:18.110 --> 00:13:20.590 bigger problems for you to solve. The other thing, 00:13:20.690 --> 00:13:24.929 and I just posted about this, I think today on 00:13:24.929 --> 00:13:30.500 LinkedIn was if I were interviewing people. I 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:32.779 would be asking, how are you currently using 00:13:32.779 --> 00:13:35.960 AI in your personal and professional life? And 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.340 then I'd stop. I wouldn't lead the witness. I 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:40.460 wouldn't ask any follow -up questions. I wouldn't 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:45.399 give examples because I want to hire people that 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:48.220 are already using these tools and already thinking 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:52.019 about how AI can help do their job better, how 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:54.679 they can leverage AI to add more value to an 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:59.840 organization. And I'm not saying any of what 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.480 I just said is right, but that's my perspective 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:06.700 on it. And I think a lot of companies are ignoring 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:09.600 it, thinking it's a fad, telling their people 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.399 not to do it, creating fear inside the organization 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:13.980 that people are going to lose their jobs. And 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.240 I don't think any of that's healthy or productive. 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.980 Well, you've got me here nodding, so I'm all 00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:22.980 on board with your perspective. That was perfectly 00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:28.440 said. I stand by that. So what is one simple 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.200 change that a CEO could do this week to see immediate 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:36.600 improvement in their or their team's performance? 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:44.259 I am shocked continually every single week at 00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:48.059 how many companies out there do not have a mechanism 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:50.840 for measuring the performance of their people. 00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:57.820 I just can't believe it. Every person inside 00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:01.259 an organization that's collecting a paycheck 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:04.759 should have their performance measured. There 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:09.299 should be a scorecard. When that doesn't happen, 00:15:09.460 --> 00:15:13.700 what do you think happens to people? They don't 00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:16.779 try as hard. They aren't as engaged. They do 00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:20.600 the bare minimum. People are smart. They know 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.409 what they can get away with. They know. which 00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:27.090 organizations, I call it stealing a paycheck, 00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:30.190 but they can steal a paycheck in for many, many 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:33.250 years and they can hide out because nobody holds 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:35.870 them accountable. Nobody measures their performance. 00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:39.730 They convince other people in the organization 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:41.990 that it's impossible to measure what they do. 00:15:43.009 --> 00:15:46.289 Obviously, we know how to measure salespeople. 00:15:46.450 --> 00:15:49.549 And so most companies are able to do that. It's 00:15:49.549 --> 00:15:52.970 the other positions. You should be able to measure 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:58.389 in a very objective way how well the receptionist 00:15:58.389 --> 00:16:01.129 is doing, how well the customer service people 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:04.009 are doing, how well your managers are performing, 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:07.990 how well marketing is performing. Every role 00:16:07.990 --> 00:16:10.450 inside the organization, every department inside 00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:12.490 the organization should have specific metrics. 00:16:12.769 --> 00:16:16.950 So what I see so often is that does not exist. 00:16:17.250 --> 00:16:20.649 So what happens? Well, performance is mediocre 00:16:20.649 --> 00:16:24.129 instead of excellent. People hide out for years 00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:27.610 inside a company. Another big one that I talk 00:16:27.610 --> 00:16:29.990 to companies a lot about because I know it's 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:35.070 happening is conflict. And think about this. 00:16:35.230 --> 00:16:41.250 So you're managing me and my role does not have 00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:44.070 any performance metrics. But you as my manager 00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:47.809 know that I'm doing the bare minimum. I'm not. 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.080 performing at a high level. Without metrics, 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:54.740 how do you tell me that? Well, you say, Tom, 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:57.600 you're not doing a great job, or Tom, you should 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.139 be doing better, or Tom, you're slipping. You 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:03.779 came in hot a year ago, but you've faded away. 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.480 What am I going to say back to you? I'm going 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.579 to say, no, that's not true. I'm working hard. 00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:13.599 I work harder than anyone else around here. And 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.559 now we're having what I'll call a subjective 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:20.960 conversation. And you as the manager are absolutely 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.579 set up to fail because you have to tell me without 00:17:24.579 --> 00:17:30.579 any metrics or KPIs or any data that I'm not 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.579 doing a good job. And of course, I'm going to 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:35.259 get defensive and tell you that you're wrong. 00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:38.180 Now you and I don't get along. So what happens? 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:42.000 Maybe you quit. Maybe I quit. Maybe we both start 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.299 performing at a low level. Maybe I go tell someone 00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:47.660 else in the company about how lousy of a manager 00:17:47.660 --> 00:17:50.720 you are. And then guess what happens? Our culture 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.160 erodes and people don't want to come to work 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:56.359 and they leave the company or they're short with 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.779 a customer because they're in a bad mood. And 00:17:58.779 --> 00:18:02.220 the whole thing falls apart. All because we haven't 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:05.299 said every single role in our company has specific 00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:08.880 things that we measure them with. And furthermore, 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.359 I'm a firm believer that if you want to have 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.700 a great company, you need people performing at 00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:17.420 a high level. I also believe that you should 00:18:17.420 --> 00:18:19.799 incentivize people based on performance. But 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.960 if you don't have performance metrics, then all 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.920 you can do is hand out a salary and hope they 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:28.980 work hard. And I'm a proponent of pay more for 00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:32.680 high quality people. I once asked someone that 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.980 I trust that's... worked in HR for decades. And 00:18:35.980 --> 00:18:39.140 I said to her, I said, a high performing person, 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:43.279 what are they worth to a company? And as an example, 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.000 tell me that they're worth twice as much as a 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.539 low performer. And her response without hesitation 00:18:50.539 --> 00:18:53.359 is, look, Tom, I know the exact answer because 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.740 I've run this at multiple companies. A high performing 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.220 person is worth six times what a low performing 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:03.420 person is. So why wouldn't you just pay? someone 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:07.880 double and have less people. But you can't do 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.079 that experiment unless you know what a high performer 00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:12.160 is and you know how to measure it. Otherwise, 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.160 you're managing with your eyes. And this is where 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:19.059 people got in so much trouble during COVID is, 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:21.299 and you've probably heard some version of this 00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:25.859 before, but I don't know what my people are doing. 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:29.779 I can't see them. Now, the irony of it is when 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:32.680 you did see them, you thought just because they 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:35.539 had their butt sitting in a desk in a cubicle 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:37.480 that they were working. And they could have been 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.200 online shopping. They could have been texting 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.619 with their friends. They could have been clicking 00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:44.359 the mouse and pretending to be working. But because 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.500 you could see them, you thought they were a high 00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:49.559 performer. They came in early. They stayed late. 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:51.599 They have to be a high performer. And then when 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.339 COVID happened and people were working remotely, 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.549 CEOs, especially older ones, just. we're in a 00:19:57.549 --> 00:19:59.789 tizzy because now I don't know if they're working. 00:19:59.930 --> 00:20:01.910 And what do you think my response was to them? 00:20:01.990 --> 00:20:04.289 And I'm tying this all together with saying, 00:20:04.369 --> 00:20:08.069 you need performance metrics because you should 00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:10.769 know in real time, whether your people are in 00:20:10.769 --> 00:20:14.069 the office or 2000 miles away, who's performing, 00:20:14.289 --> 00:20:17.210 who's crushing it, who's stealing a paycheck. 00:20:17.289 --> 00:20:19.589 And if you don't have that data readily available 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:21.750 to you and you don't have those performance metrics, 00:20:21.869 --> 00:20:23.829 then you really don't know what's going on in 00:20:23.829 --> 00:20:27.049 your organization. So now we're going to talk 00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:30.490 about the how, right? We understand the importance 00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:33.390 of it, which I think you made a great point. 00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:38.289 So how does PeopleOps360 support that? Is it 00:20:38.289 --> 00:20:41.849 software? Is it a custom solution that you offer? 00:20:42.250 --> 00:20:46.369 Yeah, so we're white glove HR services. And what 00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:50.720 I mean by that is we give people that. potentially 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.319 are interested in our services, what we call 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.160 the sushi menu. And here's everything that we 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.059 can do from a people operations standpoint. And 00:20:59.059 --> 00:21:02.400 it's everything from payroll and recruiting all 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.619 the way through building a custom learning management 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:08.259 system for your organization. Here's everything 00:21:08.259 --> 00:21:10.779 we can do. And then we just ask, what do you 00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:13.640 want us to do? And it may be a couple things. 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.819 It may be everything. And then we just develop 00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:19.680 a... month -to -month retainer to do all those 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:23.000 services. And knock on wood, those relationships 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.440 last for years because we're good at what we 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.019 do. We're cheaper than full -time people. We're 00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:33.220 better than them. And we are able to provide 00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:36.220 expertise in a number of different areas versus 00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:39.000 hiring someone that inevitably is good at some 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.279 things and has never done other things. So that's 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.839 our approach. And then getting in the weeds as 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.509 much as we need to. What can we do to add value 00:21:48.509 --> 00:21:51.789 to what we call the employee lifecycle? Everything 00:21:51.789 --> 00:21:55.369 from posting that job to off -boarding someone 00:21:55.369 --> 00:21:58.009 and hoping that they still love your company, 00:21:58.069 --> 00:22:00.769 even though it's no longer a good fit. So we're 00:22:00.769 --> 00:22:04.549 here to help with whatever area of that we can. 00:22:05.369 --> 00:22:08.410 And as you know, every organization needs different 00:22:08.410 --> 00:22:11.849 things. And the idea of a one -size -fits -all, 00:22:12.049 --> 00:22:15.250 it wouldn't do right by the companies we work 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:17.680 with. Right, because they all have different 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.819 types of roles that you would have different 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:22.539 metrics that you would share. So does this include 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:25.059 software? Is that one of your sushi service? 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:29.819 Yeah, there's two things that happen. One is 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:32.579 an organization says, we already have our tech 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:35.059 stack and we love it. We have a great training 00:22:35.059 --> 00:22:37.519 platform, a great applicant tracking system. 00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:42.069 Our HRIS is phenomenal. We're good. Great. Then 00:22:42.069 --> 00:22:44.990 our team will jump on there. We'll operate in 00:22:44.990 --> 00:22:47.410 those systems. We're already familiar with them. 00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:51.569 It's not a big deal. The other scenario is Mary's 00:22:51.569 --> 00:22:54.490 been doing this with a pencil and a legal pad 00:22:54.490 --> 00:22:58.589 for 50 years now. And we have no technology. 00:22:58.789 --> 00:23:02.750 We don't leverage AI. We do everything by hand. 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:08.309 Please build us a tech stack. Modernize our organization. 00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:11.970 We love those because... we can put the right 00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:16.049 systems and right software in place. I've been 00:23:16.049 --> 00:23:18.309 around the software. I mean, I started building 00:23:18.309 --> 00:23:21.049 online learning about 12 years ago, and it's 00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:23.829 just phenomenal where software has gone in terms 00:23:23.829 --> 00:23:27.309 of it being cheap, it being really, really good, 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:31.750 it being easy to use. So with the right software 00:23:31.750 --> 00:23:36.880 solutions, you can gain back so much time. eliminate 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.380 so many headaches, but you have to know the right 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.359 tools. You have to make sure they talk to each 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:44.440 other. So yeah, we definitely add a lot of value 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.859 in that area. So where can they find more information 00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:52.759 or connect with you? Tom at peopleoffs360 .com. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:57.920 I don't sell. I don't. convince. I don't manipulate. 00:23:58.299 --> 00:24:02.559 I just have conversations. So I am happy to have 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.319 a conversation with anyone that thinks we may 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:08.420 be able to help. It's a very casual discovery 00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:11.299 conversation. Whether we work together or not, 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:14.319 my goal in those 30 minutes is to give you some 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.160 ideas that will be useful. So I am always happy 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.460 to talk to anyone, Tom, at peopleops360 .com. 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.900 And then I'm on LinkedIn. I'd say every day, 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.200 but it's more like every hour. I kind of live 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.119 on there and would love to connect with people 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.319 on there as well. Well, thank you so much for 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.900 joining me today, Tom. Thanks for having me. 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.980 I appreciate you inviting me on and I appreciate 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:38.619 the thoughtful questions. It's a lot of fun. 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:41.839 And thank you all for tuning in to another episode 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.440 of Milestone Moments in Business and Leadership. 00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:46.140 Until next time.