WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.199 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.859 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:17.100 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.800 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.120 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.059 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.379 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.379 --> 00:00:33.560 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:40.479 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.880 to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.000 and Leadership. I'm your host, Sheila Slick, 00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:51.039 and today I have a special guest. Hi, I'm Brent 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.100 Lindstrom, like -minded arts. After decades... 00:00:54.409 --> 00:00:57.350 As a general contractor, Brent put together a 00:00:57.350 --> 00:01:00.630 10 -year plan that helped him reposition himself 00:01:00.630 --> 00:01:04.469 into the uncertain artistic world of becoming 00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:08.569 an independent writer and filmmaker. With a strong 00:01:08.569 --> 00:01:11.930 background in finance, he was able to use those 00:01:11.930 --> 00:01:17.170 10 years to go from earning $45 ,000 a year to 00:01:17.170 --> 00:01:20.370 learning how to become a master storyteller and 00:01:20.370 --> 00:01:23.819 become financially stable. to focus entirely 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:28.260 on his writing and filmmaking career. Tell me 00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:30.980 about that pivotal moment that led you to realize 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:36.040 that you wanted to trade blueprints for storyboards, 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.579 Brent. All right, so I don't know if this is 00:01:39.579 --> 00:01:43.439 how other people's stories go, but when I was 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:47.069 younger, I wanted to make movies. But my dreams 00:01:47.069 --> 00:01:49.810 were kind of squashed because I was told that 00:01:49.810 --> 00:01:52.810 that is not something that our family does. We 00:01:52.810 --> 00:01:55.450 don't have those kind of connections. As I got 00:01:55.450 --> 00:01:59.310 older and I was in the construction field, I 00:01:59.310 --> 00:02:01.989 felt like I wasn't making enough money for my 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:06.109 family, so I wanted a side job. My side job took 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:09.629 me to writing because I wanted to stay at home 00:02:09.629 --> 00:02:14.419 and be with the family rather than... going looking 00:02:14.419 --> 00:02:17.939 outside the home for extra work because already 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:21.520 I was working probably 60 50 to 60 hours a week 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.400 outside the home in my construction job and my 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.439 wife was starting to miss me so I wanted to do 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.379 something I could be close to her with and writing 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:34.000 felt like hey this is the place to go because 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.439 self -publishing is becoming a thing and why 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.539 not give it a try I could maybe make some extra 00:02:39.539 --> 00:02:43.580 money it didn't work out quite as I had planned. 00:02:44.659 --> 00:02:49.639 So I kept at it. But the more I did it, the more 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.199 I realized that I really still love this storytelling 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.560 gig. I got really addicted to it and I want to 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.000 do this full time in the future. And so that's 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.020 when I decided, you know what, I'm going to find 00:03:03.020 --> 00:03:06.500 a way to leave the construction field and move 00:03:06.500 --> 00:03:09.439 into storytelling. And that's kind of where it 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.879 all started. Well, I share your passion for storytelling. 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:17.020 When I began this very same podcast, it was to 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:20.599 share other people's stories because hearing 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.340 other people's stories have actually led me to 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:25.800 take action and perhaps take a new direction 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:29.699 at one point in my life. So I can't wait to hear 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:35.330 about how you build stories. What were some of 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:37.949 the lessons learned for anyone out there that's 00:03:37.949 --> 00:03:42.030 listening that perhaps is stuck in a $45 ,000 00:03:42.030 --> 00:03:45.969 a year job where they don't feel that they are 00:03:45.969 --> 00:03:49.069 at their potential or they want something more? 00:03:49.629 --> 00:03:54.310 What would you tell them? So when I was there, 00:03:54.409 --> 00:03:56.849 I had also just gotten out of college. I actually 00:03:56.849 --> 00:04:00.009 went to school, got a finance degree and my MBA. 00:04:03.849 --> 00:04:07.830 The artistic side to the side, just if you're 00:04:07.830 --> 00:04:11.969 trying to get out of a job or improve your situation 00:04:11.969 --> 00:04:14.430 from a job that maybe you don't feel like you're 00:04:14.430 --> 00:04:17.370 making enough money in, I think that learning 00:04:17.370 --> 00:04:21.170 a good financial backing is important. So for 00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:24.209 me, I had the book knowledge and things from 00:04:24.209 --> 00:04:27.769 school, but... I still needed to find a practical 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:32.410 way to elevate my income. The book publishing, 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:34.589 the self -book publishing at that time was not 00:04:34.589 --> 00:04:37.250 making me any money at all. In fact, it was costing 00:04:37.250 --> 00:04:40.230 me money because I still had to hire editors. 00:04:40.370 --> 00:04:42.930 I had to hire book cover designers. It still 00:04:42.930 --> 00:04:45.649 took time and effort to do these things. And 00:04:45.649 --> 00:04:47.370 then there was the marketing on top of that. 00:04:47.470 --> 00:04:49.829 And those first few books weren't all that good 00:04:49.829 --> 00:04:53.089 because your first few books, you're still learning 00:04:53.089 --> 00:04:58.579 the craft. I think for anybody who wants to improve 00:04:58.579 --> 00:05:01.180 their situation, it's important to understand 00:05:01.180 --> 00:05:04.720 money, to understand finance. Because I was making, 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:08.439 like I said, $45 ,000 a year, but I had this 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.519 goal. I wanted to be a millionaire by the time 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.879 I was 25. And at $45 ,000 a year, that's not 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.199 going to happen. Especially if you're married, 00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:20.850 you're starting a family. There's just too many 00:05:20.850 --> 00:05:22.949 expenses that come in there. And so learning 00:05:22.949 --> 00:05:26.269 about money, learning about how to make more 00:05:26.269 --> 00:05:30.689 of it, learning how to invest it and still on 00:05:30.689 --> 00:05:33.410 top of that, saving it so that you can invest 00:05:33.410 --> 00:05:36.790 in do that practically because and there's really 00:05:36.790 --> 00:05:39.769 no get rich quick scheme out there that if you're 00:05:39.769 --> 00:05:42.509 thinking there is, it's. probably a lie and it's 00:05:42.509 --> 00:05:44.990 probably going to rob you somehow. So just getting 00:05:44.990 --> 00:05:46.930 that financial backing, I think, is incredibly 00:05:46.930 --> 00:05:49.170 important. And that's that's one of the things 00:05:49.170 --> 00:05:52.310 that I try to help my personal audience with 00:05:52.310 --> 00:05:55.149 is because I've had people come and ask me for 00:05:55.149 --> 00:05:57.149 mentorship things. You know, they're like, hey, 00:05:57.189 --> 00:06:00.529 how did you make it work for you? Can we can 00:06:00.529 --> 00:06:02.870 we learn a little bit from you so we can do this 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:05.750 on our end also? And and so that's when I started 00:06:05.750 --> 00:06:09.129 my YouTube and podcast things just to help people 00:06:09.129 --> 00:06:12.980 along that journey also. You kind of just blew 00:06:12.980 --> 00:06:16.160 my mind when you used the words finance and MBA 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.740 to storytelling and creative, because in my mind, 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.180 right, like you're either a numbers person or 00:06:23.180 --> 00:06:27.540 a creative writer. So that's a very fascinating 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:32.560 intersection. Have any of your books been about 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:37.899 finance? No, not necessarily. I mean, most of 00:06:37.899 --> 00:06:42.060 my books, I do keep a... realistic approach as 00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:44.600 to how money works in there. So I've got one 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.160 book that I've just finished, which is going 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.639 to be coming out in the spring. It's part of 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:52.300 a new series, kind of a fantasy noir. But in 00:06:52.300 --> 00:06:54.339 that one, the whole money system is completely 00:06:54.339 --> 00:06:57.199 different. So while it doesn't follow the standard 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.839 financial things of our day, it follows kind 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.000 of a fantasy version of that. But I still like 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.959 to keep... in mind the rules of money, how money 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.819 works. So you get this realistic feel that this 00:07:09.819 --> 00:07:14.740 world is actually lived in. So yeah, the money, 00:07:14.860 --> 00:07:16.740 the financial end of it, I haven't written any 00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:19.860 books that just deal specifically with finance. 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:22.459 Because I mean, I'm a fiction writer, but money 00:07:22.459 --> 00:07:26.100 is part of our everyday lives. It's hard to completely 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:28.779 separate that out. So as long as you're not... 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.879 being too unrealistic about how money works in 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.959 your books. I think it's, you know, I guess it 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:39.480 helps to know how it works, but it's not terribly 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.300 important for the story itself. So you're a fiction 00:07:43.300 --> 00:07:46.480 writer. So that's why perhaps you're not writing 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.980 finance 101 how -to books, right, in the nonfiction 00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:53.699 world. So what are the key elements in a fiction 00:07:53.699 --> 00:07:56.399 novel? I've never written one, but if I wanted 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.209 to write one, what is that story? line or that 00:08:00.209 --> 00:08:03.470 blueprint look like? Oh, boy. So it really depends 00:08:03.470 --> 00:08:07.269 because story, especially fiction stories, fall 00:08:07.269 --> 00:08:09.870 into different categories. They call them genres. 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:14.329 And every genre has its own format. And so a 00:08:14.329 --> 00:08:16.889 mystery would have a certain format, certain 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:19.810 beats that you should really be hitting, while 00:08:19.810 --> 00:08:23.689 a sci -fi novel would have a completely different 00:08:23.689 --> 00:08:29.529 set of beats that you're trying to hit. or categorize 00:08:29.529 --> 00:08:33.190 into a type of a three -act structure. And you 00:08:33.190 --> 00:08:35.149 can learn about that. There's so many references 00:08:35.149 --> 00:08:37.029 to what a three -act structure is and how to 00:08:37.029 --> 00:08:40.149 follow that. But the actual beats that go into 00:08:40.149 --> 00:08:44.070 this are different from genre to genre. There's 00:08:44.070 --> 00:08:47.889 a book out there called The Hero's Journey. that 00:08:47.889 --> 00:08:51.129 focuses on one particular genre of fiction and 00:08:51.129 --> 00:08:54.830 you can see that kind of a story in probably 00:08:54.830 --> 00:08:58.909 75 to 80 percent of movies out there it's kind 00:08:58.909 --> 00:09:01.009 of this guy going on a journey or this girl going 00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:03.309 on a journey they don't want to do it at first 00:09:03.309 --> 00:09:06.289 but then they make a resolution to go out and 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:08.990 do it then they have kind of this middle section 00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:10.830 where it's fun and games it's kind of like and 00:09:10.830 --> 00:09:15.259 and They meet obstacle after obstacle till eventually 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:17.779 get to this dark night of the soul. And then 00:09:17.779 --> 00:09:22.080 and then they get this climax resolved. But but 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.220 that's one type of story in the fiction realm. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:29.340 Whereas if you go to maybe, say, a sci fi novel, 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:33.559 you're trying to tell a story that is explaining 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:39.000 more like a state of being like a government 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:43.210 society like this is. imagining what our world 00:09:43.210 --> 00:09:46.129 would be like. And so it's a lot more imaginative. 00:09:46.129 --> 00:09:50.090 It's a lot more of a social statement, as it 00:09:50.090 --> 00:09:53.090 were. And so, yeah, it depends on the genre, 00:09:53.149 --> 00:09:56.970 but it's helpful to study genre if you're going 00:09:56.970 --> 00:10:00.429 to be moving into that kind of a fiction, basically. 00:10:00.429 --> 00:10:02.250 I mean, romance is going to be completely different 00:10:02.250 --> 00:10:06.309 from both of those. So the first step is to define 00:10:06.309 --> 00:10:09.610 the genre and then find the structure within 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:12.389 it. So the hero's journey, I think that's what 00:10:12.389 --> 00:10:16.129 Disney builds a lot of their stories in. And 00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:19.029 I've also heard that concept in marketing, right? 00:10:19.169 --> 00:10:22.690 Where you're putting the character through a 00:10:22.690 --> 00:10:27.629 series of actual steps. So at the end. the audience 00:10:27.629 --> 00:10:30.190 right can connect with them and say I've been 00:10:30.190 --> 00:10:32.809 in that position and something has to happen 00:10:32.809 --> 00:10:34.929 or create that tension so that at the end they 00:10:34.929 --> 00:10:38.149 rise up like the hero exactly because we're all 00:10:38.149 --> 00:10:41.429 on a journey and it's really easy for people 00:10:41.429 --> 00:10:44.590 to relate to a journey styled story they can 00:10:44.590 --> 00:10:47.730 put themselves in that situation and so that 00:10:47.730 --> 00:10:51.120 that's why that is one of the most popular styles 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.200 of genre out there. So yeah, you're absolutely 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.559 right. And it's great for origin stories. If 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:00.360 you're telling a, you know, a memoir story, how 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.120 you built this business or whatever, the hero's 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:06.240 journey is a really good template for that because 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:09.620 you can start out with, yes, I was a poor guy 00:11:09.620 --> 00:11:13.360 making $45 ,000 a year living in a ghetto and 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.240 trying to raise a family. And then I fell in 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.720 love with books. So then I made my books the 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:21.059 I mean, you can kind of see this as my story, 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.139 you know, and then I and so I worked really hard 00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:27.299 for 10 years to try to get my books, my skill 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:30.159 in writing books good and try to get myself in 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.419 a financial position. And then finally I made 00:11:32.419 --> 00:11:35.480 the leap and now I have this career kind of a 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.399 thing. So, yeah, it's the hero's journey is really 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.220 great for fiction and nonfiction also. Yeah. 00:11:42.379 --> 00:11:45.960 Well. You're inspiring me right now because with 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.379 the podcast, I actually built an AI tool, which 00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:53.080 I'd love to hear your take on AI, where I'm able 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.860 to turn these conversations into a book because 00:11:56.860 --> 00:11:59.360 I think, you know, it's the same message, but 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:03.019 it's getting rewritten and preserved or shared 00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:07.419 in different formats. I think there's a lot of 00:12:07.419 --> 00:12:10.980 disruption right now with the AI. I'm okay if 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:13.799 you're like, oh, no, I'm totally against AI. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.700 But I also think, you know, at what point does 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:21.220 someone understand that technology is only going 00:12:21.220 --> 00:12:23.720 to continue evolving, right? We have all this 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.360 AI out there. I don't even know, like, if a video 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.580 was created just by AI. Like, I'm doubting myself 00:12:30.580 --> 00:12:34.529 every time I'm seeing the content. Because I'm 00:12:34.529 --> 00:12:37.690 seeing a lot of things that will shock you, right? 00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:40.110 That shock and awe to keep you watching so that 00:12:40.110 --> 00:12:42.789 they can make money on the clicks. So what's 00:12:42.789 --> 00:12:47.019 your take on AI in today's day and age? So I've 00:12:47.019 --> 00:12:49.700 been up and down on AI a lot. I think it's that 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:52.460 way for a lot of people. The thing about AI and 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:55.559 really any technology is when it first comes 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.899 out, it's a little disruptive. And this is true 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:01.399 for everything. We went from film to digital 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.700 and that got a lot of people worried and there 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:06.740 were diehards. Oh, we got to stick with film. 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.919 We can't sell out and go to digital. And then 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.019 you've got all these really amazing tools that 00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:17.350 help you create. amazing visual effects in movies 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:19.730 before the AI came around. And now we've got 00:13:19.730 --> 00:13:22.289 AI and it just opens the field so much more. 00:13:22.389 --> 00:13:25.950 So people like me, I'm pretty much a one -man 00:13:25.950 --> 00:13:30.470 show. I write my own stories. I film my own stories. 00:13:30.590 --> 00:13:35.870 And I probably have 20 different AI subscriptions. 00:13:36.090 --> 00:13:40.009 And as I go through them, I look at the places 00:13:40.009 --> 00:13:43.220 where they... add value. And I look at the places 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.360 where they don't really add value. And it takes 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:49.120 a little bit of experimentation. But the more 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:51.340 you get into this AI thing, the more you realize 00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:54.440 that AI is not the end all be all. It's another 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.559 tool that we have to help tell our own stories. 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:02.919 And the thing about AI is. If you rely completely 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:05.399 on AI to tell your story, the story is going 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:07.960 to be garbage. What you need to do is you need 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.720 to have your story. You need to have the vision, 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:15.379 the creative dream, and then use the AI to augment 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:20.500 that or to help you improve that. So for me, 00:14:20.500 --> 00:14:23.840 I might use the AI, maybe not so much to write 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.059 my book, but I'll use it to help edit it. Where 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:30.139 yours is taking like a... And now make sure I 00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:32.620 got this right. Yours is to take a series of 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:34.799 podcasts or interviews and turn those into a 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.720 book. Is that right? Correct. So it'll remove 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.779 the ums, ums and ups, you know, all these awkward 00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:43.840 moments. And then it will analyze it and rewrite 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.899 it as a narrative. So it's telling it like a 00:14:46.899 --> 00:14:50.480 story and it'll quote you on certain aspects 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.200 of it. But if you want to hear the full conversation, 00:14:54.460 --> 00:14:57.470 then you can listen to the episode. Yeah, and 00:14:57.470 --> 00:14:59.549 I've listened to a couple of your episodes and 00:14:59.549 --> 00:15:01.269 kind of gotten an idea for that. And I think 00:15:01.269 --> 00:15:04.029 that's an incredible use of AI, because if you 00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.470 look at it, who's actually telling the story? 00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:11.190 Is it the AI or is it you? It's you, right? It's 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:14.210 us right now. This is your story. It's whoever 00:15:14.210 --> 00:15:19.539 is being interviewed is. that interview is being 00:15:19.539 --> 00:15:23.559 translated into a book format. And so it's still 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.919 your story. The AI is just a tool to help you 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.159 turn it into something that, something more physical, 00:15:31.259 --> 00:15:33.240 something that's not just some interview. So 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:36.250 yeah, it's... That's the thing about AI, in my 00:15:36.250 --> 00:15:38.389 opinion. Is AI going to stay? Yes, it's going 00:15:38.389 --> 00:15:40.470 to stay. Is it going to help us? Yes, it's going 00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:42.509 to tear down barriers. It's going to create a 00:15:42.509 --> 00:15:45.750 lot of, they call it AI slop out there, which 00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:48.129 is just people thinking that they can go on, 00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:50.509 and I've created some of this myself, where you 00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:53.690 just use AI, you make a quick video, or you make 00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:55.909 a quick document or something, and you say, all 00:15:55.909 --> 00:15:58.269 right, turning it all over to AI. And it's so 00:15:58.269 --> 00:16:02.409 obvious, so transparent. But where AI helps is... 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.500 If you can tell a story and you can't tell that 00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.919 it was done by AI, this is the same thing with 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.559 any visual or special effects in the movies. 00:16:10.779 --> 00:16:13.899 If you're watching it and you can't see it in 00:16:13.899 --> 00:16:16.820 there, you know it was done right because almost 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:19.620 every movie out there has a lot of VFX in it. 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:23.440 And most of it, you can't really tell what they 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.360 did to it to make it that way. And AI is the 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.519 same way. If you can use the AI as that tool... 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.820 it will make your process a lot easier. And using 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:36.700 it in the right ways, it's just going to help 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:39.519 you tell a better story. So I don't look at AI 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.000 as terribly threatening, except in the instance 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.090 that it... It does create more content out there, 00:16:47.149 --> 00:16:50.929 which makes it harder for creatives to get noticed 00:16:50.929 --> 00:16:53.289 because there's just so much more to choose from. 00:16:53.330 --> 00:16:56.350 And it will pull eyeballs away from you. But 00:16:56.350 --> 00:16:59.389 that's something that's been happening for years 00:16:59.389 --> 00:17:02.529 and years. The advent of self -publishing did 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:08.289 that. The advent of digital media has done that. 00:17:09.109 --> 00:17:11.730 It's just one of those things that you deal with 00:17:11.730 --> 00:17:13.789 and you have to learn how to market yourself 00:17:13.789 --> 00:17:16.710 appropriately and tell the best story that you 00:17:16.710 --> 00:17:20.650 can. I love it. So I had learned a term when 00:17:20.650 --> 00:17:23.809 I was in college. It was called suspension of 00:17:23.809 --> 00:17:27.829 disbelief. And if I'm watching a movie and I 00:17:27.829 --> 00:17:31.609 lose that, then I no longer enjoy the movie. 00:17:31.730 --> 00:17:34.289 And so with AI, I feel that way. If it's used 00:17:34.289 --> 00:17:38.089 in a creative, good quality way, then it's not. 00:17:38.430 --> 00:17:42.390 making me lose that. And I'm still interested 00:17:42.390 --> 00:17:46.589 or even fascinated by the output. So speaking 00:17:46.589 --> 00:17:49.390 of fascination, your background is mesmerizing. 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:56.150 And I don't normally share video, but if I could 00:17:56.150 --> 00:18:00.480 describe it, I'm seeing an explosion of... Color 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.700 creativity, you have yellows, which is bright 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.279 and hope and you have blues and turquoise and 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.880 you've got film reels and swirls. Do you do that 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.839 kind of artwork? So what you're seeing behind 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.700 me is a backdrop that I had custom made using 00:18:18.700 --> 00:18:23.000 AI. And then I then I had it printed out on a 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.700 backdrop for me and I use this for a lot of my 00:18:25.700 --> 00:18:32.200 YouTube content. But. I just really enjoy that 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.839 fun, bubbly feeling. My focus when I'm making 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.720 stories, my company is called Light -Minded Arts, 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:44.839 and I... want to create clean, uplifting fiction. 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.680 And it's not preachy. It's not anything that, 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.220 you know, you're going to watch and be like, 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.000 oh, brother, he's telling me that I need to be 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.680 like, you know, it's not anything like that. 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.339 I just want to create fun content for people 00:18:57.339 --> 00:19:01.240 who maybe their value set is maybe. A little 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.720 bit different. You know, I personally don't like 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.400 watching a lot of rated R type content. And so 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.960 I like keeping the sexual content out of things. 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:11.579 I like keeping the profanity out of my stories. 00:19:11.859 --> 00:19:16.319 And just having a clean, happy, bubbly vibe around 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:20.700 me is something that I value. Well, you definitely 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:23.980 have that vibe. Just staring at it. I want to 00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:26.319 focus on you, but you've got this beautiful background. 00:19:26.380 --> 00:19:28.400 I'm like, gosh, if I could have artwork that 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:30.960 looks that beautiful. Maybe it's a little too 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.099 distracting. Maybe I need to tone it down a little 00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:36.160 then. No, no, no. Take it as a compliment, not 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.960 as distracting. If anything, I'm like, gosh, 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:40.740 that would make like a beautiful book cover. 00:19:40.819 --> 00:19:43.759 I wonder if he makes book covers because that's 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.180 the one part of the whole book publishing that, 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:49.200 you know, it's different to speak or to read 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.619 and write where you have your fortes to now have 00:19:51.619 --> 00:19:56.720 to switch your hat and focus on the visual aspect 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:01.029 of. that book cover, which is very, very important. 00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:05.809 So I want to hear more about your business. And 00:20:05.809 --> 00:20:08.250 it doesn't sound like you're going to answer 00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:12.049 yes, but I'm assuming that at one point in this 00:20:12.049 --> 00:20:15.369 journey, when you transition, there was a moment 00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:19.029 where you thought, I might have made a huge mistake. 00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:25.329 And if the answer is yes, which one mistake comes 00:20:25.329 --> 00:20:30.329 to the top of your head? Okay, so I will admit 00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:32.549 that there's been multiple mistakes along my 00:20:32.549 --> 00:20:37.009 journey, and I felt like it's the journey that 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:40.769 I'm going to be taking, so I'm not really saying 00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:43.569 that I feel like this was the wrong thing to 00:20:43.569 --> 00:20:46.089 do. But along the way, there has been moments 00:20:46.089 --> 00:20:51.329 where I've questioned it, and mostly if I couldn't 00:20:51.329 --> 00:20:55.420 make the kind of financial... foundation that 00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:58.779 I wanted to, to make the creative side possible, 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.940 then that would have been a clear red flag to 00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:04.180 me that I'm not ready to jump into this because 00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:07.000 those first few years while you're moving into 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.180 the creative field is not easy. When everybody's 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:13.559 stealing the attention from all sorts of areas, 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:15.900 it's really hard to get noticed and you may not 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:18.440 be profitable for those first few years. So I 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.859 needed my financial backing to be solid first. 00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:25.109 And then But yeah, there were mistakes that I 00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:28.589 made along the way. And some of them were in 00:21:28.589 --> 00:21:34.269 my investing. So I learned to invest in real 00:21:34.269 --> 00:21:38.309 estate, the stock market, futures, options, angel 00:21:38.309 --> 00:21:40.529 investing. I just learned all of that and saved 00:21:40.529 --> 00:21:42.809 every penny I could to put into that. And there 00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:47.029 were times where I would have an investment and 00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:49.509 it would completely blow up on me because I was 00:21:49.509 --> 00:21:53.380 learning how to do it and I did it wrong. And 00:21:53.380 --> 00:21:56.079 then it's like, wow, all my money's gone. What 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.940 am I going to do now? And then there were other 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:03.740 times where I started a business with family 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:07.420 and friends. And I thought at that point I had 00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:09.799 the business stuff figured out by now and the 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:14.119 business went poof. And I lost I mean, I lost 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.519 a lot of money in that venture. And so there's 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.500 been times where things have happened like that. 00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:22.539 But I'd say. Even that one, that one cost me 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:25.619 about half a million dollars at the time. And 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:29.880 that wasn't probably my worst failure. My biggest 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.740 one was probably only a $3 ,000 failure. And 00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:36.460 it was an essential thing that I needed to go 00:22:36.460 --> 00:22:39.220 through, but it's an interesting story. So I 00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:42.880 felt that I had learned as much on storytelling, 00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:45.299 especially the filmmaking aspect, as I could. 00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:48.640 Without actually putting things into practice, 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:50.400 because I've been reading lots of books, been 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:53.740 putting myself basically through my own version 00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:57.920 of film school. And so I thought, time to make 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.599 a short film and try out some of the techniques 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:04.160 I've been learning. So without telling my wife, 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:08.319 I went and bought a camera and a microphone. 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:13.099 And I spent about $3 ,000 on this. And we were 00:23:13.099 --> 00:23:15.059 living very frugally. She was doing all that 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:19.079 she could to support me. And I felt so incredibly 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:23.700 guilty. I mean, I had imposter syndrome. I had, 00:23:23.779 --> 00:23:26.220 is this really necessary? Can I make this really 00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:29.480 work? And why didn't I ask my wife for permission 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.940 to do this? And, you know, maybe for some people, 00:23:33.019 --> 00:23:35.480 $3 ,000 isn't that much. I mean, compared to 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.180 the half a million dollars I had not... that 00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:41.119 I had lost on that other venture. It's like, 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:46.140 what's the big deal? But I have such a good relationship 00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:48.980 with my wife that it almost felt like I was keeping 00:23:48.980 --> 00:23:52.980 a dirty secret from her. And I felt so guilty 00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:54.940 for weeks. And finally, I confessed to her. It 00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:58.200 was really no big deal to her. But at the time, 00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:01.240 that was probably my biggest fail, my biggest 00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:03.200 thing that weighed on my conscience about this 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.059 whole venture. So open communication is how you 00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:11.230 moved forward. Yeah, it was. And, and after that, 00:24:11.289 --> 00:24:13.269 I haven't had to look back. I mean, she's always 00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:18.569 been so supportive of me. But yeah, I mean, part 00:24:18.569 --> 00:24:21.970 of going into a creative field or anything that 00:24:21.970 --> 00:24:25.210 affects you, especially your financial footing 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:28.210 is going to affect your whole family. And when 00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:30.829 you're married, you have a partnership. And it's 00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:34.670 important to keep everything together to Yeah. 00:24:35.069 --> 00:24:37.329 have that open communication because really, 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:40.049 if it weren't for my wife, I don't think I'd 00:24:40.049 --> 00:24:44.150 be able to do what I'm doing today. That's beautiful. 00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:47.309 So let's talk about your business, what you're 00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:50.230 doing today. Tell me about your movies, your 00:24:50.230 --> 00:24:54.490 books. All right. So today, this has been the 00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:58.750 year of transition. So I stepped away from my 00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:00.970 construction job. I still go in maybe once or 00:25:00.970 --> 00:25:05.759 twice a week. But for the most part, I focus 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.599 mostly on writing my books and creating some 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.119 content to help mentor other people along the 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:13.779 way. But I spend a lot of time writing my books. 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.519 I've also had two surgeries this year, so I've 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.920 been bedridden a lot. So it's been a great time 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.880 to focus on writing. And so I spend a lot of 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.940 time doing that. And I've also picked up a property 00:25:25.940 --> 00:25:29.740 near where I live where I am building a film 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:33.789 studio. And that one's going through the permitting 00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:36.049 process right now at the cities. And when that's 00:25:36.049 --> 00:25:38.930 done, I'm going to have about a 9 ,500 square 00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:42.730 foot film studio. It's going to be there mostly 00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:44.589 for my content, but it's also going to be there 00:25:44.589 --> 00:25:47.849 for other creatives when I'm not using it. And 00:25:47.849 --> 00:25:50.009 it's going to have... state -of -the -art things. 00:25:50.109 --> 00:25:51.849 It's going to have AI integrations. It's going 00:25:51.849 --> 00:25:54.190 to have a lot of things that help filmmakers, 00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:56.549 people who want to make commercials. It's going 00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:58.950 to help people who just want to do podcasting 00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:01.529 or YouTube things. So it's going to have a lot 00:26:01.529 --> 00:26:06.690 going on in there. And I'm really looking forward 00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:08.769 to that leap because I've got a lot of stories, 00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:11.109 not just books, but screenplays that I've been 00:26:11.109 --> 00:26:14.559 writing that I can start. filming once that gets 00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.500 going. But until then, I'm writing my books and 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:19.480 I'm publishing those. And I've got one that just 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:21.480 came out this year called One for the Money, 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:24.940 Two for the Soul. And I've got another one called 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:27.500 Hard Boiled Cabbage, which is a fantasy noir 00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:29.880 mystery type thing, which is coming out in March. 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.279 And so, yeah, it's a fun, creative journey. And 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.779 it's what I've always wanted to do. And you married 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:41.829 the two right now that you. just said this studio 00:26:41.829 --> 00:26:45.289 you're putting those construction skills and 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.069 you're turning your passion and you're combining 00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:51.150 the two and it just sounds like a state of the 00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:53.890 art because you're going to integrate all of 00:26:53.890 --> 00:26:56.750 these technologies and it also sounds almost 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:01.009 like an incubator someone that wants to you know 00:27:01.009 --> 00:27:05.250 explore how to get into this creator economy 00:27:05.250 --> 00:27:08.230 or Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, we've got two 00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:11.289 colleges that are within half an hour of where 00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:13.750 I live, and both of them have a film school in 00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:17.470 them. And so I look forward to bringing in creatives 00:27:17.470 --> 00:27:20.609 from there. I really want to be able to provide 00:27:20.609 --> 00:27:23.990 some low cost, even free services to some of 00:27:23.990 --> 00:27:25.690 them for their school projects while they're 00:27:25.690 --> 00:27:30.009 working on that. And I'm even incorporating some 00:27:30.009 --> 00:27:32.269 of the real estate investing knowledge that I 00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:37.299 have to fund the thing. My property that I'm 00:27:37.299 --> 00:27:39.279 building the studio on is not just going to have 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.059 my studio. It's going to have other commercial 00:27:41.059 --> 00:27:45.759 buildings on it. And the income from those is 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.420 going to basically fund the studio so that if 00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:50.420 my studio doesn't actually make money, I can 00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:55.319 still keep the studio. So does the studio have 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.960 a name? It's going to be the Studio at Light 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:03.319 -Minded Arts. Absolutely love that. And will 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:06.819 it be? Kind of like a co -working space, which 00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:09.900 has been a pretty popular model. Just thinking 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.920 out loud, because if it's creatives, they may 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:16.359 not want a full time office. But if they can 00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.940 rent out that space on a monthly basis or, you 00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:21.680 know, certain rooms, I'm sure you're going to 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.220 have a podcast room and a film room and so forth. 00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.859 Yeah. And right now it's a little bit fluid. 00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:30.539 I'm going to probably change things as they go. 00:28:30.619 --> 00:28:34.079 But the idea right now is that. There will be 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:36.539 some co -working space in there with computers 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:41.099 set up already that have all of the film editing 00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:43.839 tools on there that somebody would need so they 00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:45.980 don't have to go out and get an Adobe subscription 00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:48.440 or anything like that. It'll have AI tools that 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.980 they can use and access there, but it'll also 00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:54.769 have... the integration so they can create a 00:28:54.769 --> 00:28:58.849 world there, cast it up onto a giant 36 -foot 00:28:58.849 --> 00:29:02.309 -long LED backdrop screen, and they can go film 00:29:02.309 --> 00:29:04.730 themselves in whatever place in the world they 00:29:04.730 --> 00:29:08.490 basically want or out of this world. And there'll 00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:11.069 be other ones with, you know, the white backdrops, 00:29:11.069 --> 00:29:13.210 the green screens, whatever we need there. But 00:29:13.210 --> 00:29:16.009 yeah, it'll be open for people like that. And 00:29:16.009 --> 00:29:19.059 I also want to have it be... almost a social 00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:23.000 hub where if a creative or maybe someone making 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.480 a commercial or film comes and they say, I want 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.279 to make this film here, do you know any gaffers? 00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:32.960 Do you know any grips? Anybody who can help me 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.160 make this? And I can pull up a list and say, 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.500 here's some of the people who come here often 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:42.660 who would love to work on your project and can... 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.359 Maybe I don't charge them to come do certain 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.099 things and they don't charge them to do things. 00:29:47.180 --> 00:29:49.359 Kind of just a big network of people who want 00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:51.259 to work together to help each other's dreams 00:29:51.259 --> 00:29:53.700 come true. And when you're first starting out, 00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:57.259 it's so hard to make a dime that your budgets 00:29:57.259 --> 00:30:00.359 get really out of control if you're not careful. 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.599 And so having a place where they can develop 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.740 some of that experience and knowledge at a low 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:10.960 -risk environment, it's a dream of mine. I mean, 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:14.509 I've used... free help before and getting other 00:30:14.509 --> 00:30:18.529 people to help with other creative projects it's 00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:22.009 just something that you you have the like in 00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:25.490 the construction field you get two concrete contractors 00:30:25.490 --> 00:30:28.190 right and one of them comes and looks at one's 00:30:28.190 --> 00:30:30.730 job and says i hate that concrete job i can't 00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:32.990 believe you hired that guy the other guy says 00:30:33.609 --> 00:30:35.690 Why did you ever hire that guy? Look how bad 00:30:35.690 --> 00:30:37.309 his concrete... They're always fighting each 00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:39.630 other and competing against each other. But in 00:30:39.630 --> 00:30:42.509 the creative world, it's so symbiotic. Everybody 00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:44.769 in the creative world seems to want to be helping 00:30:44.769 --> 00:30:47.809 each other. Yes, maybe my book is competing with 00:30:47.809 --> 00:30:51.789 your book for eyeballs, but there's this weird 00:30:51.789 --> 00:30:54.130 dichotomy where as creatives, if you mention 00:30:54.130 --> 00:30:55.650 that you're an artist or writer or anything, 00:30:55.769 --> 00:30:58.569 it seems like everybody wants to help each other. 00:30:58.769 --> 00:31:01.390 And that's a really fun aspect of the artistic 00:31:01.390 --> 00:31:07.420 community. So my last question is, imagine your 00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:10.180 life is a film, and I'm inspired by all the film 00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:13.480 behind you and the studio talk. And you can take 00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:15.619 a second if you don't have it at the top of your 00:31:15.619 --> 00:31:20.500 head. But what would be the title for this chapter 00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:25.660 of your life? I think this chapter would be titled 00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:30.579 Retelling. Maybe not retelling, retailing, if 00:31:30.579 --> 00:31:34.750 that makes sense. Play on words. So like I said, 00:31:34.769 --> 00:31:36.349 how I'm building that studio, but with other 00:31:36.349 --> 00:31:39.089 retail sites located there to help support it. 00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:42.049 I am in the middle of building retail units to 00:31:42.049 --> 00:31:45.029 support my actual film studio. So I'd call it 00:31:45.029 --> 00:31:48.710 retailing. Well, I love it. And I love your story 00:31:48.710 --> 00:31:51.750 of transformation. It's almost its own hero's 00:31:51.750 --> 00:31:57.049 journey. It's a really fun journey. And there's 00:31:57.049 --> 00:32:01.140 not a boring day right now. Well, this interview 00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.200 hasn't been boring and neither has the artwork 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.059 behind you nor all your future plans. So congratulations 00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:10.119 on all of these milestones that you're reaching. 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.359 I have really enjoyed our conversation. I will 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.359 leave all of the links in the description. It 00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:18.380 sounds like you have a lot of books and a lot 00:32:18.380 --> 00:32:21.119 of films. So I'm hoping you have a website I 00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:23.140 can send them to where they can check out all 00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:26.539 the different work. Yeah, yeah. So if you want 00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:28.779 to visit me, so there's a couple things. You 00:32:28.779 --> 00:32:31.180 can visit my YouTube channel. It's just Light 00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:33.440 -Minded Arts. You'll find it there. That's kind 00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.400 of where I'm more of helping mentor people in 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.880 the creative industry. But if you want to come 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.119 visit my website and learn more about my stories, 00:32:41.220 --> 00:32:44.079 my books, different things like that, it is www 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:48.299 .lightmindedarts .com. And if you go there, there's 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.279 a contact page where you can fill out and mention 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:55.309 your podcast here. And I will actually email 00:32:55.309 --> 00:32:58.390 you a free copy of my latest novel, One for the 00:32:58.390 --> 00:33:01.670 Money, Two for the Soul. I love that. Well, thank 00:33:01.670 --> 00:33:04.650 you so much for joining me today. Well, thanks 00:33:04.650 --> 00:33:06.490 for having me. It's been a pleasure talking with 00:33:06.490 --> 00:33:09.750 you. And thank you all for tuning in to another 00:33:09.750 --> 00:33:12.750 episode of Milestone Moments in Business and 00:33:12.750 --> 00:33:14.750 Leadership. Until next time.