Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where
we explore the journeys that lead to success.
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five
Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders
and experts who will share not just their expertise,
but the milestone moments that have reshaped
their journeys and led to significant achievements.
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in
the right place. Subscribe now and discover the
milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome
to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business
and Leadership. I'm Sheila Slick, your host,
and today I have a very special guest, Kevin
Eikenberry. Kevin is the Chief Potential Officer
of the Kevin Eikenberry Group, a leadership and
learning company based in Indianapolis, Indiana.
with a team across the United States. He has
spent over 30 years helping organizations and
leaders in over 53 countries. Kevin believes
that his new book, Flexible Leadership, Navigate
Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence, is his
best and most important work yet. Welcome to
the show, Kevin. Sheila, thank you for having
me. I'm ready to go. I'm sitting down. Well,
I love your title Chief Potential Officer. It
is quite distinctive in the leadership development
space. I'd love to know what led you to this
career path and how does this unique title reflect
your core philosophy on leadership? Well, let's
start with the second part first and go back
to the beginning. So Chief Potential Officer,
I don't think it's just distinctive. I've never
met another one. You know, Sheila, when it's
your company, you can call yourself whatever
you want. And I thought calling myself Chief
Potential Officer was better than calling myself
janitor, even though I have been known to do
that too. So in all seriousness, from a marketing
perspective, I wanted to pick a title that would
lead people to do exactly what you did, which
was to ask about it. And if there weren't chief
learning officers in the world, that's what it
would have been. But since there are chief learning
officers and I wouldn't get that distinctiveness
piece that I will achieve potential officer because
I, and it does inform, it is informed by my belief
and what we are about in our business. And that
is helping people reach their potential. And
I believe that the potential that we have as
humans and then therefore that we have as organizations
is significantly greater than most of us ever
achieve. And so I believe I'm in, I and we are
in the business of helping leaders become the
leaders they were born to be, which means moving
closer and closer to their potential. So, so
how did I get into this business? Well, I got
into this business because, well, the reason
I'm still in this business after 30 plus years
is that I'm doing the work I was put on the planet
to do. I worked in corporate America. I grew
up on a farm. We had a farm business, a couple
of businesses related to agriculture. I went
to college. I went into the workplace. As I went
into the workplace, I had always believed that
like you would have a B in business for myself.
But I worked in a very large organization for
a number of years, had a great opportunities
there, learned a lot while I was at Chevron.
But later in my time there, after starting in
sales and marketing, I found I found my way into,
I worked to get into the training and development
part of the Chevron Corporation. And while I
was there, I figured out that doing this work
of helping people learn was something I was good
at. And that I believe that that's where I needed
to place myself in a business was to do leadership,
to do learning and development. And over time
found that what I was really put on the plan
to do was leadership development because for
two reasons. Number one, I wrote in one of my
books, Sheila, that as we become better leaders,
we become better humans and vice versa. And I
believe that that's true. And I found that what
I was best at was helping people learn skills
that applied both personally and professionally.
And that is absolutely 100 % true for us as leaders.
And so, and then from a business side, The greatest
leverage point for organizational growth is the
success and the productivity and efficiency effectiveness
of leaders. And so leaders are ripples in ponds,
right? And if we can get more leaders creating
the same ripple, we can have huge impacts in
our organizations and change the world. Better
leaders are what it takes to change the world.
So how long ago did you leave corporate more
or less? Are we talking? We're talking 32 years.
What changes do you see if you were training
and developing leaders 30 years ago? A lot has
evolved. Well for one thing we didn't we couldn't
do this thing called zoom You and I are on right
now like that certain didn't exist You know when
I when I left Chevron and started my company,
I think I had email, but I also had a fax machine
Let's just be clear. I had a fax machine and
like you sort of needed one I don't know the
last time I used a fax machine. That's obviously
just a small part of what's changed in the world.
So the way I like to think about this, Sheila,
is that there's way more about leadership that
hasn't changed than has. And yet what has changed,
which is mostly context, is important. We said
this when we started writing about leading at
a distance before COVID. And we said that rule
number one in our book, The Long Distance Leader,
rule number one is think leadership first, location
second, that there's way more about it that's
the same than different, but what's different
matters a lot. And that continues to be true,
not just about where we work and when we work,
but a whole bunch of other things as well. And
so we need to not forget what we've long known
about human. beings, about human development,
about human dynamics, about group dynamics, because
those foundational things aren't really changing.
And yet the context in which we work and lead
has changed a lot. And we have to keep those
things in mind. Yeah, they've changed a lot in
30 years, right? Well, what about the different
cultures? Because you have so many different
countries. There are a lot of people that are
more expert than I in the intricacies and the
depth around the various cultures around the
world. And yet we have had the chance to work
with leaders from all over. And one of the things
that that we've helped organizations with and
individual leaders with is I may be in India,
but my team, some are in India and some are in
Indiana and some are in London and some are in
Budapest and some are in, you know, somewhere
in Africa, right? They could be all over. And
so how do we help people, yes, recognize cultural
differences, but just work to build connections
to and relationships with their teams, regardless
of where they're located or what time zones they're
in. Yeah, that's very fascinating seeing your
diverse background. So let's talk about your
latest book, Flexible Leadership, which focuses
on navigating uncertainty. And I think this is
such an important topic right now because there's
so much uncertainty because of all of these changes
that are happening and they're happening quickly.
How should we approach uncertainty today? First
thing is you're right. There is a lot of it,
right? Whether you want to think about it from
a technology perspective, want to think about
it from a geopolitical perspective, what do you
want to think about it from just a global perspective
that things are more interconnected than ever.
Whether you want to think about it from a, from
a, where we're working, like the distance, remote,
all that stuff. Like we could take any one of
those things and say that work is more uncertain
and complex than it's ever been. We got all those
things happening at once. And so the first thing
that we need to recognize that as human beings,
as a starting point, our first reaction to uncertainty
is mostly freeze, wait, be an ostrich, put our
head in the sand, right? And while I think the
waiting part for a bit is okay, like there's
a lot to be said for a little, a little poems.
But beyond that, what we're trying to help people
do is not to eliminate uncertainty because you
can't do that. but how to navigate it, which
means I'm not trying to get rid of it. I'm trying
to say in the face of it, how do I still move
forward with some level of confidence? How can
I help myself and then me as a leader help others
to tread through it and do everything we can
to improve our odds of success through it? And
that's really what we're trying to do with this
book. And the title, as you said, Navigate uncertainties
in the subtitle. The title is flexible leadership.
And so the big idea here is that if we're leading
the way we did five years ago, chances are your
success is going down. It's not going up. It's
not staying the same because the world is not
the same. And so even if, even if you were a
pretty good leader five years ago, the trend
of your success and effectiveness is not up.
Five years later, if you haven't changed, right?
So how and in what ways do we need to flex and
adapt as we move forward? So give me one specific
example, kind of like a teaser into the book
of what you think is one of the ones that really
sticks out that you want to highlight. For we
can flex, we have to realize that flexing is
valuable. In order to realize that flexing is
valuable, we have to get past the idea that there's
right and wrong answers. We have to get past
the idea that it's either this or it's this,
but rather, so let's just take an example. Is
leadership about outcomes? And many leaders,
you would say, hey, they are results -based.
They're about the outcomes. They're about the
result. Is that what leadership is about? Or
is leadership about people? or others, those
that are doing the work. And all of you know,
and you may identify yourself as being somewhat,
I'm more of a people leader. And so most people
would say, well, I'm either a results -based
outcome -based leader, or I'm a people or others
-based leader. And I would suggest to you, that's
a false question. That the answer isn't, should
I be outcome -based or others -based, but rather,
where should I lean on that? We call that a flexor.
Which direction should I lean on that in this
moment? Right? You might have a natural tendency
that says, hey, I'm a little more people -based,
more results -based. Fine. I don't mind. Knowing
what your natural tendency is, is useful. Staying
in that or saying, I am a results -based leader
means that you will have a very hard time flexing
to anything else because you've identified yourself
and part of your identity is being that. One
of the most important starting points for being
a flexible leader is to recognize that in fact,
flexibility is valuable. And number two, that
it means that we live in a both and world, not
an either or world. So we could build a situation
or a context where we would say, in this moment,
I need to lean more toward people and less towards
results. And other times, so I'll just take an
example. We have an event that we've done ever
since COVID began. It's in the fall. It's called
Virtual LeaderCon. So during that event, every
one of my team is very much during that week,
very focused on all of the things that have to
happen in order for us to make a great experience
for all of the leaders around the world that
join us and all of the guests that join us as
a part of that. We are very results focused for
that week. The next week. Do I keep my foot on
the accelerator of the team? Do I push them in
the same sorts of ways that I did that week,
the next week and two weeks and three weeks later?
Maybe not. And if I did, the question would be,
would that be in the team and even my best interest?
I would say perhaps not. Let's say that you have
a team member who is, uh, had a catastrophic
event happen in their life. In that moment, in
that window of time, in that season. Wouldn't
you be likely more affected if you leaned more
in the direction of the people and the relationship
and their needs and being empathetic with them
and a little less on results for right now? I
would suggest yes. Regardless of which of those
was your natural tendency, what does context
tell me about where I should be leaning right
now? That's the crux of being a flexible believer.
Love that. So you have a podcast you have a YouTube
channel I do an author Tell us a little bit about
All the different spaces or how you serve your
clients. Well, if if you can Figure out remember
how to spell my name Kevin. I can bury E I K
E N B E R R Y I promise you can find me online
whether it's on our on LinkedIn Where we publish
a newsletter whether it's on our website Kevin
I can bury comm whether it's on our podcast the
remarkable leadership podcast Which you can find
wherever you get your podcasts whether it's on
our YouTube channel Whether it's on Amazon where
you can find all those books, you know We're
in the business of helping leaders get better
so the world can be a better place. And so as
you said, there's lots of ways in which we've
had the good fortune to be able to do that. If
you or your organization uses LinkedIn Learning
as a part of your learning process, I've authored
a number of courses there as well. So we're lots
of places. We work with organizations and we
work with individual leaders. in person, face
to face, as well as virtually. So we are in the
business of helping leaders be more effective
to make the world a better place. And we try
to be as many places as we can to make that happen.
So looking ahead, what emerging leadership challenges
do you believe will define the next decade? And
if you could give one piece of advice to anyone
listening to this episode today. so that they
can better prepare for it now. Well, the easy
answer is leaders need to be more flexible in
a world that's continuing to be more uncertain
and complex. And I can say that teasing a little,
but it's my honest truth that the future of work
is changing. The future of where we work, how
we work. how work is interconnected, the complexity
of the people doing the work, all of that is
coming, is here and is coming. And that means
that we as leaders must become more flexible,
not in our principles or values. Those things
need to be rock solid. They need to be rooted
like a tree. But in how we lead, the approaches
that we take on a context by context, day by
day, project by project, problem by problem basis,
we need to be able to flex, because if we can't,
the world will leave us behind as individual
leaders. And so to me, that is the future of
work is flexible, the future of leadership is
flexible. And so the one thing I would say beyond
thinking about being flexible, realizing that
it's important, perhaps buying the book, the
thing that I would say is this, that all of us
can do this. Even if you're saying, Kevin, I'm
too busy to do those things you're talking about.
You can do this thing. And this thing is to look
at your world through a leadership lens, which
simply means that as you're experiencing the
world, think about what decisions leaders are
making or not making, what they're doing or not
doing, what they're communicating or not communicating,
and say, what from that could I learn that I
might apply? Or what from that do I observe that
I would choose not to apply? But you can do that
in watching the leaders around you, in watching
your neighbors, in watching a movie, in watching
the news, in reading a book, fictional or non
-fictional. And so when we look at the world
through the lens of leadership, we give ourselves
the opportunity to see things in ways we haven't
seen them before. And once we see things in new
ways, we have the chance to act in new ways.
So what is your next milestone? In terms of having
a book that just came out at the end of March,
the path for us to continue to promote that book
and having the chance to be on the show is certainly
a piece of that. But as we're continuing to do
the work of helping leaders Take advantage of
learn from the ideas in this book and the and
the training that we're building around it I
I see that as the next milestone, but it's more
of a journey than a milestone Well, thank you
so much for joining me today Kevin. It was my
pleasure Thanks for having me Sheila and thank
you all for tuning in to another episode of milestone
moments in business and leadership until next
time