WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.279 Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.459 we explore the journeys that lead to success. 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.640 I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.220 Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:17.420 insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders 00:00:17.420 --> 00:00:21.300 and experts who will share not just their expertise, 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:24.339 but the milestone moments that have reshaped 00:00:24.339 --> 00:00:27.559 their journeys and led to significant achievements. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.500 So if you're looking for motivation, you're in 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:33.880 the right place. Subscribe now and discover the 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:41.270 milestones that mark the path to success. Welcome 00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:44.909 to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business 00:00:44.909 --> 00:00:47.869 and Leadership. I'm Sheila Slick, your host, 00:00:48.070 --> 00:00:51.869 and today I have a very special guest, Kevin 00:00:51.869 --> 00:00:55.969 Eikenberry. Kevin is the Chief Potential Officer 00:00:55.969 --> 00:00:59.469 of the Kevin Eikenberry Group, a leadership and 00:00:59.469 --> 00:01:03.130 learning company based in Indianapolis, Indiana. 00:01:03.689 --> 00:01:07.189 with a team across the United States. He has 00:01:07.189 --> 00:01:10.530 spent over 30 years helping organizations and 00:01:10.530 --> 00:01:14.909 leaders in over 53 countries. Kevin believes 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:18.709 that his new book, Flexible Leadership, Navigate 00:01:18.709 --> 00:01:22.469 Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence, is his 00:01:22.469 --> 00:01:26.390 best and most important work yet. Welcome to 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:29.250 the show, Kevin. Sheila, thank you for having 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:33.489 me. I'm ready to go. I'm sitting down. Well, 00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:37.750 I love your title Chief Potential Officer. It 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:40.849 is quite distinctive in the leadership development 00:01:40.849 --> 00:01:44.150 space. I'd love to know what led you to this 00:01:44.150 --> 00:01:48.709 career path and how does this unique title reflect 00:01:48.709 --> 00:01:53.579 your core philosophy on leadership? Well, let's 00:01:53.579 --> 00:01:55.260 start with the second part first and go back 00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:57.400 to the beginning. So Chief Potential Officer, 00:01:57.540 --> 00:01:59.840 I don't think it's just distinctive. I've never 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.599 met another one. You know, Sheila, when it's 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:05.120 your company, you can call yourself whatever 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.200 you want. And I thought calling myself Chief 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:10.099 Potential Officer was better than calling myself 00:02:10.099 --> 00:02:12.479 janitor, even though I have been known to do 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:15.500 that too. So in all seriousness, from a marketing 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:18.280 perspective, I wanted to pick a title that would 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:20.159 lead people to do exactly what you did, which 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:24.520 was to ask about it. And if there weren't chief 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:26.199 learning officers in the world, that's what it 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:28.500 would have been. But since there are chief learning 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:31.699 officers and I wouldn't get that distinctiveness 00:02:31.699 --> 00:02:34.439 piece that I will achieve potential officer because 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.680 I, and it does inform, it is informed by my belief 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.439 and what we are about in our business. And that 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:44.819 is helping people reach their potential. And 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:47.520 I believe that the potential that we have as 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.020 humans and then therefore that we have as organizations 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:53.599 is significantly greater than most of us ever 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.479 achieve. And so I believe I'm in, I and we are 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.280 in the business of helping leaders become the 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:04.060 leaders they were born to be, which means moving 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:06.520 closer and closer to their potential. So, so 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:08.879 how did I get into this business? Well, I got 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:12.900 into this business because, well, the reason 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:14.979 I'm still in this business after 30 plus years 00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:17.180 is that I'm doing the work I was put on the planet 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:20.939 to do. I worked in corporate America. I grew 00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.460 up on a farm. We had a farm business, a couple 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:26.219 of businesses related to agriculture. I went 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:28.919 to college. I went into the workplace. As I went 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:32.360 into the workplace, I had always believed that 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.599 like you would have a B in business for myself. 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:37.780 But I worked in a very large organization for 00:03:37.780 --> 00:03:39.699 a number of years, had a great opportunities 00:03:39.699 --> 00:03:42.180 there, learned a lot while I was at Chevron. 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.060 But later in my time there, after starting in 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:50.099 sales and marketing, I found I found my way into, 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:52.479 I worked to get into the training and development 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.479 part of the Chevron Corporation. And while I 00:03:55.479 --> 00:03:58.039 was there, I figured out that doing this work 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.960 of helping people learn was something I was good 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:04.280 at. And that I believe that that's where I needed 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:09.159 to place myself in a business was to do leadership, 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.039 to do learning and development. And over time 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.180 found that what I was really put on the plan 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:17.959 to do was leadership development because for 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:22.480 two reasons. Number one, I wrote in one of my 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.139 books, Sheila, that as we become better leaders, 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.680 we become better humans and vice versa. And I 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.839 believe that that's true. And I found that what 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.720 I was best at was helping people learn skills 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:36.939 that applied both personally and professionally. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.379 And that is absolutely 100 % true for us as leaders. 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:48.000 And so, and then from a business side, The greatest 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.620 leverage point for organizational growth is the 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:54.560 success and the productivity and efficiency effectiveness 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.779 of leaders. And so leaders are ripples in ponds, 00:04:59.779 --> 00:05:02.560 right? And if we can get more leaders creating 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:04.639 the same ripple, we can have huge impacts in 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.259 our organizations and change the world. Better 00:05:07.259 --> 00:05:09.439 leaders are what it takes to change the world. 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:13.560 So how long ago did you leave corporate more 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.259 or less? Are we talking? We're talking 32 years. 00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:20.009 What changes do you see if you were training 00:05:20.009 --> 00:05:24.730 and developing leaders 30 years ago? A lot has 00:05:24.730 --> 00:05:27.089 evolved. Well for one thing we didn't we couldn't 00:05:27.089 --> 00:05:29.990 do this thing called zoom You and I are on right 00:05:29.990 --> 00:05:33.509 now like that certain didn't exist You know when 00:05:33.509 --> 00:05:37.370 I when I left Chevron and started my company, 00:05:37.370 --> 00:05:40.509 I think I had email, but I also had a fax machine 00:05:40.509 --> 00:05:44.550 Let's just be clear. I had a fax machine and 00:05:44.550 --> 00:05:47.209 like you sort of needed one I don't know the 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:50.610 last time I used a fax machine. That's obviously 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:52.470 just a small part of what's changed in the world. 00:05:52.829 --> 00:05:54.509 So the way I like to think about this, Sheila, 00:05:54.709 --> 00:05:58.129 is that there's way more about leadership that 00:05:58.129 --> 00:06:03.949 hasn't changed than has. And yet what has changed, 00:06:05.449 --> 00:06:12.019 which is mostly context, is important. We said 00:06:12.019 --> 00:06:13.920 this when we started writing about leading at 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.819 a distance before COVID. And we said that rule 00:06:16.819 --> 00:06:18.699 number one in our book, The Long Distance Leader, 00:06:18.860 --> 00:06:21.199 rule number one is think leadership first, location 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.399 second, that there's way more about it that's 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:24.899 the same than different, but what's different 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:27.879 matters a lot. And that continues to be true, 00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:30.279 not just about where we work and when we work, 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:32.319 but a whole bunch of other things as well. And 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:37.839 so we need to not forget what we've long known 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:42.629 about human. beings, about human development, 00:06:43.410 --> 00:06:47.509 about human dynamics, about group dynamics, because 00:06:47.509 --> 00:06:50.529 those foundational things aren't really changing. 00:06:51.509 --> 00:06:55.189 And yet the context in which we work and lead 00:06:55.189 --> 00:06:57.410 has changed a lot. And we have to keep those 00:06:57.410 --> 00:06:59.810 things in mind. Yeah, they've changed a lot in 00:06:59.810 --> 00:07:02.990 30 years, right? Well, what about the different 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:05.709 cultures? Because you have so many different 00:07:05.709 --> 00:07:12.350 countries. There are a lot of people that are 00:07:12.350 --> 00:07:19.089 more expert than I in the intricacies and the 00:07:19.089 --> 00:07:22.629 depth around the various cultures around the 00:07:22.629 --> 00:07:24.269 world. And yet we have had the chance to work 00:07:24.269 --> 00:07:27.449 with leaders from all over. And one of the things 00:07:27.449 --> 00:07:29.939 that that we've helped organizations with and 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:32.579 individual leaders with is I may be in India, 00:07:32.819 --> 00:07:35.480 but my team, some are in India and some are in 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:37.480 Indiana and some are in London and some are in 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:40.019 Budapest and some are in, you know, somewhere 00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:42.319 in Africa, right? They could be all over. And 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.519 so how do we help people, yes, recognize cultural 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:50.019 differences, but just work to build connections 00:07:50.019 --> 00:07:53.079 to and relationships with their teams, regardless 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.480 of where they're located or what time zones they're 00:07:55.480 --> 00:08:00.120 in. Yeah, that's very fascinating seeing your 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.439 diverse background. So let's talk about your 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.100 latest book, Flexible Leadership, which focuses 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:09.699 on navigating uncertainty. And I think this is 00:08:09.699 --> 00:08:12.660 such an important topic right now because there's 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:17.759 so much uncertainty because of all of these changes 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:20.360 that are happening and they're happening quickly. 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:25.870 How should we approach uncertainty today? First 00:08:25.870 --> 00:08:27.689 thing is you're right. There is a lot of it, 00:08:27.709 --> 00:08:28.810 right? Whether you want to think about it from 00:08:28.810 --> 00:08:30.389 a technology perspective, want to think about 00:08:30.389 --> 00:08:32.129 it from a geopolitical perspective, what do you 00:08:32.129 --> 00:08:35.090 want to think about it from just a global perspective 00:08:35.090 --> 00:08:36.950 that things are more interconnected than ever. 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:38.830 Whether you want to think about it from a, from 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:41.629 a, where we're working, like the distance, remote, 00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:44.029 all that stuff. Like we could take any one of 00:08:44.029 --> 00:08:45.990 those things and say that work is more uncertain 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:48.110 and complex than it's ever been. We got all those 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:51.269 things happening at once. And so the first thing 00:08:51.269 --> 00:08:55.340 that we need to recognize that as human beings, 00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:58.799 as a starting point, our first reaction to uncertainty 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:06.159 is mostly freeze, wait, be an ostrich, put our 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.320 head in the sand, right? And while I think the 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:11.440 waiting part for a bit is okay, like there's 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.179 a lot to be said for a little, a little poems. 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:18.700 But beyond that, what we're trying to help people 00:09:18.700 --> 00:09:21.820 do is not to eliminate uncertainty because you 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:25.039 can't do that. but how to navigate it, which 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:27.340 means I'm not trying to get rid of it. I'm trying 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:31.100 to say in the face of it, how do I still move 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:34.080 forward with some level of confidence? How can 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:39.100 I help myself and then me as a leader help others 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:44.399 to tread through it and do everything we can 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.159 to improve our odds of success through it? And 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:49.519 that's really what we're trying to do with this 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:53.509 book. And the title, as you said, Navigate uncertainties 00:09:53.509 --> 00:09:56.009 in the subtitle. The title is flexible leadership. 00:09:56.330 --> 00:10:00.850 And so the big idea here is that if we're leading 00:10:00.850 --> 00:10:06.450 the way we did five years ago, chances are your 00:10:06.450 --> 00:10:10.370 success is going down. It's not going up. It's 00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:12.070 not staying the same because the world is not 00:10:12.070 --> 00:10:15.049 the same. And so even if, even if you were a 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:18.769 pretty good leader five years ago, the trend 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:21.330 of your success and effectiveness is not up. 00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:24.259 Five years later, if you haven't changed, right? 00:10:24.419 --> 00:10:27.779 So how and in what ways do we need to flex and 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:34.419 adapt as we move forward? So give me one specific 00:10:34.419 --> 00:10:37.279 example, kind of like a teaser into the book 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.480 of what you think is one of the ones that really 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:44.059 sticks out that you want to highlight. For we 00:10:44.059 --> 00:10:46.379 can flex, we have to realize that flexing is 00:10:46.379 --> 00:10:50.610 valuable. In order to realize that flexing is 00:10:50.610 --> 00:10:53.870 valuable, we have to get past the idea that there's 00:10:53.870 --> 00:10:56.230 right and wrong answers. We have to get past 00:10:56.230 --> 00:10:59.169 the idea that it's either this or it's this, 00:10:59.450 --> 00:11:03.049 but rather, so let's just take an example. Is 00:11:03.049 --> 00:11:08.090 leadership about outcomes? And many leaders, 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:10.149 you would say, hey, they are results -based. 00:11:10.370 --> 00:11:11.970 They're about the outcomes. They're about the 00:11:11.970 --> 00:11:14.129 result. Is that what leadership is about? Or 00:11:14.129 --> 00:11:17.379 is leadership about people? or others, those 00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:20.320 that are doing the work. And all of you know, 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:22.100 and you may identify yourself as being somewhat, 00:11:22.179 --> 00:11:25.519 I'm more of a people leader. And so most people 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.940 would say, well, I'm either a results -based 00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:30.559 outcome -based leader, or I'm a people or others 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:32.940 -based leader. And I would suggest to you, that's 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:37.600 a false question. That the answer isn't, should 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.240 I be outcome -based or others -based, but rather, 00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:45.460 where should I lean on that? We call that a flexor. 00:11:45.710 --> 00:11:48.190 Which direction should I lean on that in this 00:11:48.190 --> 00:11:51.570 moment? Right? You might have a natural tendency 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:52.909 that says, hey, I'm a little more people -based, 00:11:52.970 --> 00:11:56.389 more results -based. Fine. I don't mind. Knowing 00:11:56.389 --> 00:12:00.129 what your natural tendency is, is useful. Staying 00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:04.549 in that or saying, I am a results -based leader 00:12:04.549 --> 00:12:07.929 means that you will have a very hard time flexing 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:10.610 to anything else because you've identified yourself 00:12:10.610 --> 00:12:15.169 and part of your identity is being that. One 00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:17.450 of the most important starting points for being 00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:20.129 a flexible leader is to recognize that in fact, 00:12:20.169 --> 00:12:23.529 flexibility is valuable. And number two, that 00:12:23.529 --> 00:12:27.049 it means that we live in a both and world, not 00:12:27.049 --> 00:12:30.389 an either or world. So we could build a situation 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:33.370 or a context where we would say, in this moment, 00:12:33.389 --> 00:12:37.450 I need to lean more toward people and less towards 00:12:37.450 --> 00:12:41.169 results. And other times, so I'll just take an 00:12:41.169 --> 00:12:44.320 example. We have an event that we've done ever 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.240 since COVID began. It's in the fall. It's called 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.820 Virtual LeaderCon. So during that event, every 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:52.620 one of my team is very much during that week, 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:54.700 very focused on all of the things that have to 00:12:54.700 --> 00:12:57.259 happen in order for us to make a great experience 00:12:57.259 --> 00:12:59.220 for all of the leaders around the world that 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:00.879 join us and all of the guests that join us as 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:02.980 a part of that. We are very results focused for 00:13:02.980 --> 00:13:08.590 that week. The next week. Do I keep my foot on 00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:11.110 the accelerator of the team? Do I push them in 00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:13.669 the same sorts of ways that I did that week, 00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:15.970 the next week and two weeks and three weeks later? 00:13:16.230 --> 00:13:19.070 Maybe not. And if I did, the question would be, 00:13:19.149 --> 00:13:22.350 would that be in the team and even my best interest? 00:13:22.409 --> 00:13:24.610 I would say perhaps not. Let's say that you have 00:13:24.610 --> 00:13:27.909 a team member who is, uh, had a catastrophic 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:31.450 event happen in their life. In that moment, in 00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:35.080 that window of time, in that season. Wouldn't 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.860 you be likely more affected if you leaned more 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:41.320 in the direction of the people and the relationship 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.179 and their needs and being empathetic with them 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:47.039 and a little less on results for right now? I 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:50.100 would suggest yes. Regardless of which of those 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:53.340 was your natural tendency, what does context 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:55.299 tell me about where I should be leaning right 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:57.919 now? That's the crux of being a flexible believer. 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:03.759 Love that. So you have a podcast you have a YouTube 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:08.600 channel I do an author Tell us a little bit about 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.779 All the different spaces or how you serve your 00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:16.580 clients. Well, if if you can Figure out remember 00:14:16.580 --> 00:14:19.139 how to spell my name Kevin. I can bury E I K 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.980 E N B E R R Y I promise you can find me online 00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:26.639 whether it's on our on LinkedIn Where we publish 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.039 a newsletter whether it's on our website Kevin 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.820 I can bury comm whether it's on our podcast the 00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:35.379 remarkable leadership podcast Which you can find 00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:37.820 wherever you get your podcasts whether it's on 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:40.620 our YouTube channel Whether it's on Amazon where 00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:43.870 you can find all those books, you know We're 00:14:43.870 --> 00:14:45.929 in the business of helping leaders get better 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:49.110 so the world can be a better place. And so as 00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:51.090 you said, there's lots of ways in which we've 00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:53.929 had the good fortune to be able to do that. If 00:14:53.929 --> 00:14:57.190 you or your organization uses LinkedIn Learning 00:14:57.190 --> 00:15:00.929 as a part of your learning process, I've authored 00:15:00.929 --> 00:15:04.129 a number of courses there as well. So we're lots 00:15:04.129 --> 00:15:07.850 of places. We work with organizations and we 00:15:07.850 --> 00:15:10.500 work with individual leaders. in person, face 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:14.820 to face, as well as virtually. So we are in the 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.980 business of helping leaders be more effective 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:18.779 to make the world a better place. And we try 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:20.799 to be as many places as we can to make that happen. 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:25.600 So looking ahead, what emerging leadership challenges 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:30.600 do you believe will define the next decade? And 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.200 if you could give one piece of advice to anyone 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:38.700 listening to this episode today. so that they 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:43.139 can better prepare for it now. Well, the easy 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:45.940 answer is leaders need to be more flexible in 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:48.600 a world that's continuing to be more uncertain 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:53.580 and complex. And I can say that teasing a little, 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:58.360 but it's my honest truth that the future of work 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:01.879 is changing. The future of where we work, how 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:05.179 we work. how work is interconnected, the complexity 00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:08.440 of the people doing the work, all of that is 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.799 coming, is here and is coming. And that means 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.000 that we as leaders must become more flexible, 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.179 not in our principles or values. Those things 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:20.519 need to be rock solid. They need to be rooted 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.240 like a tree. But in how we lead, the approaches 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.639 that we take on a context by context, day by 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.659 day, project by project, problem by problem basis, 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:34.320 we need to be able to flex, because if we can't, 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:36.500 the world will leave us behind as individual 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:40.519 leaders. And so to me, that is the future of 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.820 work is flexible, the future of leadership is 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:48.860 flexible. And so the one thing I would say beyond 00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:50.960 thinking about being flexible, realizing that 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:53.679 it's important, perhaps buying the book, the 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:55.519 thing that I would say is this, that all of us 00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:00.200 can do this. Even if you're saying, Kevin, I'm 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.700 too busy to do those things you're talking about. 00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:06.960 You can do this thing. And this thing is to look 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.880 at your world through a leadership lens, which 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:12.720 simply means that as you're experiencing the 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.400 world, think about what decisions leaders are 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:17.519 making or not making, what they're doing or not 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.059 doing, what they're communicating or not communicating, 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:24.500 and say, what from that could I learn that I 00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:27.359 might apply? Or what from that do I observe that 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.400 I would choose not to apply? But you can do that 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.779 in watching the leaders around you, in watching 00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:37.980 your neighbors, in watching a movie, in watching 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:41.819 the news, in reading a book, fictional or non 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.720 -fictional. And so when we look at the world 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.460 through the lens of leadership, we give ourselves 00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:51.920 the opportunity to see things in ways we haven't 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.779 seen them before. And once we see things in new 00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:57.200 ways, we have the chance to act in new ways. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:05.579 So what is your next milestone? In terms of having 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:07.460 a book that just came out at the end of March, 00:18:09.339 --> 00:18:13.059 the path for us to continue to promote that book 00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:14.799 and having the chance to be on the show is certainly 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.940 a piece of that. But as we're continuing to do 00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:22.880 the work of helping leaders Take advantage of 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.420 learn from the ideas in this book and the and 00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:27.819 the training that we're building around it I 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:29.799 I see that as the next milestone, but it's more 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.220 of a journey than a milestone Well, thank you 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.099 so much for joining me today Kevin. It was my 00:18:35.099 --> 00:18:37.279 pleasure Thanks for having me Sheila and thank 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.460 you all for tuning in to another episode of milestone 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:43.619 moments in business and leadership until next 00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:44.019 time