1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,160
Welcome to Milestone Moments, the show where we explore the journeys that lead to success.

2
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:13,920
I'm Sheila Slick, your host and founder of Five Milestones. In every episode, we will bring you

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:21,520
insights from the minds of entrepreneurs, leaders, and experts who will share not just their expertise,

4
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:27,440
but the milestone moments that have reshaped their journeys and led to significant achievements.

5
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,040
So if you're looking for motivation, you're in the right place. Subscribe now and discover the

6
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,080
milestones that mark the path to success.

7
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:45,760
Welcome to another episode of Milestone Moments in Business and Leadership. And today, my special

8
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:52,400
guest is James Burnham. James is an MBA and a decade of experience developing leaders in oil and

9
00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,840
gas, private equity, and small businesses. Welcome to the show, James.

10
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,360
Well, thank you for having me on, Sheila. I really appreciate the time.

11
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:08,240
So your background spans across various industries. Can you share that milestone moment

12
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:14,000
that led you to transition towards empowering leaders and helping business owners reclaim control?

13
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,920
Yeah, I really have done way more industries than I list with my coaching because those are just the

14
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,200
industries I've coached in. But I was a kid that had a job. I got my first daily newspaper route

15
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:31,600
when I was seven. And I had a paper route until I was 14. I was working in people's yards at 11 to

16
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:38,080
make money. I've always worked and I've done a lot of things from real basic manual labor to high end

17
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:46,320
jobs. And I think that it's really helped me to understand the deep importance of emotional

18
00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:52,800
stability and capacity in leadership over the KPIs, the hard skills that we pursue,

19
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:58,080
which are absolutely essential. You have to have skills. But somebody that does not have

20
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,480
an emotional capability to engage and work with others, they're going to be a detriment to your

21
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,680
team. And that's something that I've noticed in every industry I've worked in. And yeah,

22
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:14,640
so I think the thing that changed for me the moment was I had my own company. I'd started

23
00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:22,400
my own company and it was 2012 and I was living in Canada at the time. I am again, it was 2012

24
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:30,080
and I was living in Canada, Obama won the election and the whole economy went on hold in construction

25
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,880
and I was selling construction equipment, I was brokering it. And it got hard. I was making really

26
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,120
good money and just taking my family to Hawaii and we had a really great Christmas and all this stuff

27
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:45,120
and then all of a sudden, it got hard. And I realized I hate my job. I like the money,

28
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,560
I hate my job. And I began to delve into what I really, really loved. And what I loved was

29
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,360
developing teams and people around me. And I thought in order to do that, I have to be a

30
00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,240
consultant or something, but everybody wanted an MBA. So, I went back to school and got an MBA.

31
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:11,360
You highlight that in today's economy, leaders need more than just analytical skills and direction to succeed. They need emotional intelligence.

32
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,640
So, let's talk about that. Can you explain how emotional intelligence contributes to success?

33
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,240
I've had the opportunity to work with C-suite executives to mid-level managers

34
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:28,240
and business owners. And what I see, the difference in impact between a leader who

35
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:34,560
understands what it is to lead and those that are still doing the same hustle that they did to get

36
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,160
to that point of leadership have a vastly different impact and a vastly different experience with their

37
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:47,200
teams. And typically, somebody that becomes, rises through the ranks in our corporate society

38
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:52,960
has produced great things. They've been noticed because you're getting stuff done, right? The

39
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:59,280
company likes that. And so, we're going to promote you. What unfortunately has done very little of in

40
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:06,000
our society is proper training of a leader. And what does that mean? And so, these leaders don't

41
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,040
make an imprint on their team like they should. They should be creating a culture of performance

42
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:17,120
success based on their preferences. Because now you're a team leader, it's about you and how you

43
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,200
do that. And you have to fit within the culture of a larger corporation if you're there. But

44
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,800
understanding how to fit and how to navigate that and how to get the best out of your talent.

45
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:32,080
Because if you look at your people around you as your talent, you're no longer the purveyor or the

46
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:39,520
rainmaker of everything that must happen. You are now a part of a cohesive performing group of people

47
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,800
within this company that can change things dramatically if you understand that. But it

48
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:51,520
requires the ability to let go of your ego, let go of your fears, let go of thinking that you must

49
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:57,280
know everything and relying on a group of people around you. And the way to do that is really

50
00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:01,840
understanding where you're weak and where you're strong and having the capacity to rely on others.

51
00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:07,440
And that takes an authentic self and an authentic self is not found without emotional intelligence,

52
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:13,280
just simply not. Now, there are exams to measure emotional intelligence, right? Just like,

53
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:20,000
yeah, what's a good number? You know, I actually have an app that measures emotional intelligence

54
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,040
and it measures it through your vocal cords. It's not my app, it's an app that I use because I

55
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,320
found it to be very successful. Well, this woman in Utah got really interested in emotional

56
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,520
intelligence and researching it and she created this app that through the vibrations of your vocal

57
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,400
cords, you count for 15 seconds and in 15 seconds, you get a whole breakdown of your emotional

58
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:46,880
intelligence. And it's fascinating and their average score, just based on, it's a score of

59
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:52,320
one out of a hundred for emotional intelligence on this app. An average score is somewhere between 40

60
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:59,680
and 69. So, that's considered average. And then if you go above 69 to 100, you're above average.

61
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,160
And if you're below, you're needing work, right? Well, you're always needing work.

62
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,160
This is the interesting thing though, is our emotional intelligence is not a stagnant score.

63
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,400
Today, you might be very emotional intelligent. You might be grounded in yourself. You might really

64
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,120
understand who you are. You might be feeling good and in the flow and your emotional intelligence is

65
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,160
high because you're very aware. It's easy to be aware when things are good. It's when things get

66
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:28,240
hard that our emotional intelligence gets challenged and you will see your score fluctuate daily.

67
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:34,560
And we don't like that. We're used to IQ, which is one tiny measurement of our intelligence. It is

68
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,120
not a comprehensive measurement of intelligence and it stays regardless of how hard you study,

69
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,080
what you do, it relatively stays unchanged. So, people don't like emotional intelligence

70
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:51,520
because they expect it to be like IQ, which is a stagnant score and really a very microscopic

71
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,800
measurement of the grand scheme of intelligence. Emotional intelligence is this trying to measure

72
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:05,360
the flow of water in a raging river is what it is. Or it's calm today or it changes. So,

73
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,040
that's the difficulty. The goal is to become aware and there's some components really. Awareness,

74
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,840
expression, the ability to believe you have control over your emotions and empathy and

75
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:21,920
those are the pillars of emotional intelligence. What's the name of this app? It's called Vibonics.

76
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:29,600
You can check it out at the Apple Store or Google Play. I have a link that I can give you for your

77
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,680
viewers and they can get a seven-day free trial to check it out. So, walking around and saying,

78
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:40,640
so, situation here, your emotional intelligence is a bit off for the podcast. When I saw emotional

79
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:48,080
intelligence, I was so excited because I truly believe this is one of the most important skills

80
00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,360
that we need. It allows us to communicate better with each other, right? Yes. No matter,

81
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,200
you know, you can do it at your personal, professional life. It's just a necessity.

82
00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:04,080
Yeah. So, your expertise lies in forging high-performing teams. Can you share a

83
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:10,400
strategy that you've implemented that has helped a team overcome specific challenges to unlock

84
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:16,240
their full potential? Yeah, that's a really good question because, yeah, everybody faces real

85
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:22,400
specific things but honestly, the very first strategy that I use when really trying to uncover

86
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,640
emotional intelligence within a company is I go to the leader. It's the leader that's going to set

87
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,440
the tone and if I can't work with you as a leader because we're not on the same page, I want to know

88
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:38,240
that front because part of my job as a consultant working in oil and gas was I was sent in to work

89
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,680
at these places. Often, I'd connect, you'd get hired by the C-suite and the C-suite sends you to

90
00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:50,240
the mid-level to make them better and what I discovered in the process was, yes, those people

91
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:57,120
needed to be better and so did the people at the top and when you're coaching somebody below but

92
00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:03,520
you're not coaching the person at the top, I begin to coach them to my concepts, not theirs. So, I

93
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,640
have to be tied to the person that is leading and that was what I thought was the most important

94
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,560
thing because what I love to do is a 360. Do you know what a 360 is? It's a assessment.

95
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,920
Yeah, it's an assessment of the team. So, then I get into all these questions with the team,

96
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,360
I ask them about their leader and amongst all the noise because everyone has complaints about a

97
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,200
leader, everyone, no matter how good they are but amongst all the noise as I finish my thing,

98
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:38,400
I will begin to see repetitive themes of areas that we can work on. I call them opportunities.

99
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,520
So, we look at these opportunities and we say, here's the chance for growth and it's painful

100
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:51,520
for a leader to confront that you're going to get your exposed, you're going to expose yourself

101
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,960
to the things, the deepest, darkest secrets that your staff are thinking about you and that can be

102
00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:05,120
hard to view. It can be really hard to view but I have done it now so many times and it becomes so

103
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:11,840
powerful but you have to have the courage to face it and there's many people that don't. They don't

104
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,600
yet have the courage to face that. They just want to keep their head in the sand and keep going.

105
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:22,080
So, that's one of the techniques that I employ first is to really uncover what is the opportunity

106
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,960
that we have here. Where are the communication breakdowns? Because that's where those

107
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,520
communication, repetitive communication breakdowns that appear, those become really the nexus of where

108
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,560
emotional intelligence is most needed because we're not communicating. Why are we not communicating?

109
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,120
We both speak the same language. We both work on the same team. We're not understanding. It's about

110
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:48,880
emotions and then when we break, we get to that space, this is it, then we can get into it and

111
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,440
that really changes the dynamics of a team. So, what is your next milestone?

112
00:10:53,440 --> 00:11:03,440
Ah, well, it's interesting, right? I moved to Canada in 2010 to 2013. I was self-employed and

113
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:09,200
had reasons to do it and moved back because I got a job as a consultant and I traveled all over the

114
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,480
place, lived with this consulting firm, got transferred all over and I actually, my father

115
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,480
is he had a massive stroke a year and a half ago and so, I came home to take care of him because

116
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:28,720
I don't want him in a, our whole family doesn't want him in a healthcare facility 24-7. We want

117
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:35,520
him to feel at home and at ease and my dad's a great guy and so, we want to take care of him and

118
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:42,960
I'm in a place where I can work anywhere so, I've moved up here but my goal is to be able to

119
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:49,120
work in a place where I can work anywhere. My goal is I want, I'm giving this a year so, I'm here for

120
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:56,080
a year and then when that's up, I want to go live in South America somewhere for the winters and I'll

121
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,280
live back here in Canada in the summer. So, that's my milestone.

122
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:05,120
Well, we'll see where you end up. We'll follow your journey. So, before we wrap this up, what one

123
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:12,880
actionable tip or advice can you share with my listeners based on your experience so that we

124
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:13,880
can help you?

125
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:20,560
Yeah, I would say if you're a leader and you're wondering, you know, there's two types of leaders.

126
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:24,480
There's leaders that are deeply worried about their team and they're always worried, am I

127
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,320
doing my best and am I getting the most out of them? Am I helping them the most? And those are

128
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,960
very easy leaders to work with but they use the same tool that I'm going to give you. There's the

129
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,760
other leader that says, no, everything's great. We're a great team. My team loves me. They're just,

130
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:43,520
they're working hard but they are oblivious or ignoring intentionally the pain and struggle that

131
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:49,040
they see around them because they think there's more important things to do. And so, what I found

132
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:56,080
is without question, there are emotional struggles on even the best teams. When you take a look at

133
00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:03,680
the high performing teams in the world, right? In sports, in anything performance related, music,

134
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:08,000
whatever, where you see it on a stage at a high level, they have good nights and they have bad

135
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,640
nights, right? And that's the nature of it. But if they're really, really good, even their worst

136
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:20,080
night might be better than most of our best nights. And the way they get there is by galvanizing with

137
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:25,040
each other and really, really understanding how you work and you have each other's back.

138
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:34,160
And the key to doing that, the real key is having a common tool of communication, tools that you use

139
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,800
to say, hey, this is how we're going to, when I have a problem with you, this is how we're going

140
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:45,680
to engage because each of us comes from a different background. And what might trigger me might not

141
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:51,680
trigger you and vice versa. Me saying somebody's an idiot might be a trigger for you and maybe I

142
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:57,280
don't care. So, you get as a leader to establish those rules of communication. You get to make an

143
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,800
imprint on the culture of that team and you should. But in order to really make an imprint,

144
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,280
you've got to give people the tools that they will use regardless of their background, regardless of

145
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:14,080
their history so that they can vent in a productive manner what's going on within them and address it.

146
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:19,120
If they don't know how, they may be thinking that they're trying and they're saying, well, I've

147
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,080
tried and they don't hear me. And that's too bad. So, you have to have a set of tools, you have to

148
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:32,000
address the fact we need to debrief with problems and have a place for this to come out and have a

149
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,040
standard practice of how to communicate. And once everybody agrees on that, you've really, really

150
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,240
gone a long ways towards improving your team dynamics.

151
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,480
So, when you mentioned tools, what would be like a tool?

152
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:51,120
So, one of the first things that I would do is setting up a meeting where you once a week

153
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:59,040
have an opportunity to express frustrations with each other. And so, I use Brene Brown's concept

154
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:06,640
of the anatomy of trust, which is an acronym called Braving. And you go through and she has

155
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,440
identified because if I say to you at work, I don't trust you, right? Which is really the

156
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,240
foundation of how we got to work together. If I can't trust you, I can't work with you.

157
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,000
And so, building trust with each other is essential. And so, I give them the tools that

158
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,960
Brene Brown provides, which are how to build trust. So, I don't have to come to you now and

159
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,600
say I don't trust you. I can say, you know what? I'm struggling with your reliability.

160
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:37,520
You haven't been reliable in these areas and I ask you to do it and you just don't get it done.

161
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,240
And so, what's going on? Because maybe I need to help you because it keeps missing here. Maybe

162
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,680
there's something you're missing. I'd love to help you with that but we got to figure out a way to

163
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,520
get that done. That's a different conversation than I don't trust you. I can't give you this job.

164
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,960
Changes the dynamic and she has these things. And when you look at that, it gives you a tool

165
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:03,280
and then I also help them with words like I feel or whatever. We do that, we get great formats but

166
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,520
that's really kind of one of the tools, one of the essential tools that I use that I think is

167
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,560
profoundly impactful on a team. The power of communication.

168
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,440
Yeah. Thank you so much. How can my followers find you?

169
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:24,720
I have a podcast that I'm going to be putting out with this when you release it that they can come

170
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,640
and they can go through and I'm going to show people how to identify if there's drama in the

171
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,640
workplace in my podcast. So, you can listen to it and you can take some tools and be like, oh my

172
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,440
gosh, yeah, I do have drama. Or maybe you'll finish it and think you're scot-free which

173
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,200
if that's the case, I would suggest that you work on your emotional intelligence.

174
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,000
But you may not need me. You may be in a good enough place that you're like, you know what,

175
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,720
we're doing really well and that's great. But I'll have a podcast and then I'll give you a link

176
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,800
for the Vibonix app so that your viewers are, it's not for my app, it's an app that I use as

177
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:02,640
one of the tools for developing emotional intelligence. And so, I would say if you want to

178
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,720
check that out, it gives you seven days to play with it. If you want it for your company, I can

179
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:12,480
give you a link as well that's a business link. That's all Vibonix but it's a fascinating,

180
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,760
fascinating app that I think is very valuable. So, I'll leave all of these URLs including your

181
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:24,720
website at the bottom in the summary. Thank you so much for your insights and joining me today.

182
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,800
Now, thank you for your time. That was really great. I enjoyed your questions. You were very

183
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:35,440
thought provoking. Thank you. And thank you all for joining us on another episode. If you liked it,

184
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:55,280
follow us for future episodes. Cheers.