Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everybody.
Welcome to today's episode of the NeverPeak Project Podcast.
I'm your host, Coach Ranger.
And in this podcast, my mission goal purpose vision for it is, is to be a archive
of different tips, tricks, and lessons for change makers throughout the entire
world to take and utilize in their own business, nonprofit or organization.
I really want this to be a way for people that want to make a difference to be able
to feel empowered and in action towards making that difference.
So as you guys typically know, on Mondays, I release solo episodes where I talk about
various mindset shifts or tips or tricks for my walk across the country, lessons
that I learned working for the Reptile nonprofit, or things that I've learned in
this new journey of entrepreneurship.
And every other Wednesday, I release episodes with guests from throughout the
United States or that are doing great things in the world.
One of the biggest things that I learned from my walk across the country is there
are good people out there doing amazing things.
But the other thing I learned during that trip is that we can't always do it alone.
While the journey of solopreneurship or running a small nonprofit on your own may
seem worrying, there's always things that we can learn from others throughout the
world, across different industries, backgrounds, demographics, et cetera.
And that is why today I'm so excited to be talking with someone from not
necessarily the other side of the country, but we're about halfway across from me.
And I met him through an organization that I'm a part of called BNI, which is
Business Networking International.
And that again, is just what I so love about these various networking groups and
the power of social media and the internet is there's no way that him and I
would have crossed paths in general, just in our day-to-day lives, I don't think.
But because of these organizations, we were able to make that connection.
And now he is here to share his magic with the listeners.
So in this episode, we're joined by Mike Emholtz.
And this episode is really going to explore critical mindset shifts that
nonprofit leaders should make in order to treat their organization more like a business.
Now that might seem a little bit confusing or counterintuitive, but in today's episode,
Mike is going to talk much more in depth about the importance of having more of an
open abundance mindset around nonprofit management and organization so that we can
help more people, critters, or the environment all over the world.
Mike, thank you so much for joining us and I appreciate your time today.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I look forward to our conversation and this has always been, you know, kind of
how can we help nonprofits achieve their goals and achieve their potential has
always been something I've been very passionate about and that's why I got
into the whole industry.
Perfect.
No, I'm super excited.
As most listeners may know, while I am more so of a businessy kind of coach, I
really do have a soft spot for people that are on our nonprofit leaders, people in
that world.
So I'm super excited to see how you are able to help out your clients and the
people that are out there making a difference.
So if you, you said that it's a pretty deep and green thing.
I know we had our one to one a while back, but could you just for the listeners give
a brief, I don't know who you are biography, how you landed into this role and
what you hope to do with your company?
Well, I mean, if you look at where it all started for me, the funny fact is it
actually started when I was five years old.
I am, Oh man, I, let's see.
37 had to look at the date to figure it out.
37 years old and I have 32 years experience in the auction industry.
Since I was five years old, I've been working auctions.
My dad owns black diamond auctions.
And since I was five, I was literally working for him, running sheets, setting
up work, greeting customers, serving food, uh, you know, of clerking, eventually
auctioneering and doing all the stuff in between.
And so that's kind of how I started.
And, but I also had this kind of feeling in my heart that it's like, Hey, you
know, I missed a lot of Saturday morning cartoons.
Are they morning cartoons as a kid?
And I really don't love getting up at five 30 in the morning to move
furniture out of people's basements.
And so that was never the plan for me.
Like I was not going to become an auctioneer and do that traditional work.
Well, anyway, what happened was my brother, um, recruited me to work for
him on something called the benefit auction.
This was an auction that focuses solely on raising money for nonprofits.
So it takes all the skills I had already learned and converts them to
galas for fundraising.
And I remember specifically one time I had already graduated from college with
a sales marketing management degree.
And I, uh, we were helping the American heart foundation and they were raising
money for, um, growing hearts and pigs and, uh, upgrading the cooler that hearts
after they're removed from a donor and sent in upgrading that because
there's only so much time.
Like if someone were to die in California and they're a donor and the person who's
supposed to receive that heart is in Minnesota, there's less than like a five
minute time of like, we, we don't have enough time to get that heart from
California to Minnesota before that heart is not operable.
So we're trying to raise money for this research and I'm standing here and they
say, well, the truth is we need a hundred thousand hearts a year and we have 10,000
hearts.
And so I'm looking at this and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is research that could
change people's lives.
And I'm not a researcher.
I don't have this background where I can raise all this money.
I can, I'm not going to go out and figure out this.
However, what I'm really good at is talking to people and being a little bit
of a smart aleck and we're working this room and we're, we're selling a guided
tour through the human heart.
And what this is, is you would get to stand in the room while the surgery is
happening because you know, the surgeon, like you see on those, uh, medical TV
shows would say like, Oh, we are now moving through this area.
I need this.
This is what's going on.
And so you would really get to be like in the human heart and like watching it in a
way that's you just simply don't get.
And so I'm talking and I'm working this group and I'm working the floor.
My brother's the auctioneer at the time and I'm working the floor and the
bid's at $5,000 and I had a bidder at, uh, $4,000.
He bid someone else bid to ask for $5,000 and he shakes his head and I say,
really $500?
You're going to miss your magic school bus experience for $500.
And he laughs and he laughs and he takes a drink and he bids 5,000.
Someone bids 5,500.
He bids 6,000.
Someone bids 6,500.
And then at that moment I realized, Oh my gosh, he got out bid, but me being quick
on my feet and being, you know, slightly charming allowed a nonprofit to raise
an extra $2,000.
And then it just occurred to me.
I went home like that was actually after a day I'd worked from eight to five, put
on a different suit, drove down to the cities, worked and I worked eight to five.
I got back at 1130 and I didn't get to bed till two, cause I was so, you know,
energized by the whole thing.
And then I realized, what am I doing selling furniture?
This is what I could be doing.
And then I kind of built Black Diamond Benefits from that moment on.
And my brother helped me with some of it and we got together.
And so my focus became, how can I help nonprofits raise money?
And then how can I help them raise money in everything that leads up to that event?
And so it all started with the auction, but then it became the
fundanine, which is, you know, the moment the nonprofit does their ask.
And my question kept becoming, what do, what affects this night, this perfect night?
Like, what does that perfect night look like?
And the spiderweb kept going out and out.
And then it became things like, oh, well, you know, the, do you want to
have a buffet meal or a plated meal?
Well, I can tell you why.
I say you want to have a plated meal because a plated meal feels nicer.
It's less likely to have people talking.
People understand intuitively that you're not supposed to
talk at a plated meal event, but when everyone can just go up and
grab food and then come in and sit down, everyone's still talking.
And it has an air of more elegance to it.
Now, what's the problem with having a less elegant event?
Well, then people are more likely to talk.
They're more likely not to listen.
And what we're trying to do is make the perfect event for your event.
And so it just kept growing out and out.
And my consultation kept learning because I'm, I'm a learner myself,
and I just love to continue learning.
So to the point where in two weeks, I had mentioned to you this, to this,
to you after, before we got on.
But I'm releasing some blogs that are about board of, board of directors
development and how do we build a board of directors we love and that are
motivated to fundraise and that will help us fundraise.
And that technically doesn't have, that's not like what's the night of the event,
but I kept getting asked that question.
I said, well, then I'm going to have to research it and do some good work
to make sure I put forth an answer that can be useful to the nonprofits.
And that's kind of the long version or short version, depending on
your point of view of how I got here.
Gotcha.
No, that's awesome.
And I think what is always so special and unique about people's stories.
Cause I get, I mean, I interviewed people all over the U S and I've had
people on the never peak project after the transition from the old project to
this, and it's always just so interesting seeing how small, what is it?
The, the butterfly effects, how these like very quick or small interactions
can just change the entire trajectory.
And it's something that I kind of want to highlight and go back to is that
concept that you're talking about earlier with the heart nonprofit.
I mean, I just Googled it while we were talking.
Yeah.
It's, it's a 30 or 30 hour drive from California, depending on where you
start in California, obviously to Minnesota and you know, traffic or this or that.
Like that is, that is a, such an issue that I never would have even thought of
is these so niche things in those different industries, you know?
So it's just so insanely special, cool, inspiring to hear that there are the
people that are able to make the technology, you know, the special coolers.
I'm sure you can't just throw it in a Yeti with some ice, like it has to be special.
And it's also recognizing that you, you yourself don't have the
capability to make that technology.
You don't have the education, the skills, or maybe even necessarily the drive,
but you don't just let that stop you from making a difference.
You're able to say, I can't do that, but I have these other
skills that can make it happen.
So I'm just curious, like, how have you seen that in other areas throughout your career?
Like, how is that, how is that influential in what you do with Black
Diamond and the impact that you make on nonprofits?
So one of the things we talk about, like, where's your skillset?
Where's not your skillset?
I'm very good on stage.
I'm very good at ideation.
I'm very good at creativity.
However, what I'm not very good at is tech skills or organizing.
Which, you know, has worked out pretty rough for someone trying to build a business.
But now that I'm married and she is amazing, she helps me with the organization
to a level that I, I have, you know, not reached so far.
So what, like how I kind of, I've really learned, and I did one of those
strengths finders reports and it, it pointed me towards, you know,
like, I'm very good at communication and this and this, I was like, okay, great.
But then it told me like, you're also very good at ideation and finding
other people's strengths and making the best out of them.
And I started picking that up.
And for me, it's always been kind of like a puzzle.
I've always loved puzzle games where it's like, okay, well, we need to find if
you know, if I was working with Ranger, I'd say, okay, I need to figure out what
Rangers really good at and where he's absolutely fulfilled because if Rangers
working with me and he's absolutely fulfilled, I'm going to get 150% out of
him because it will bring him joy and he will be at his best.
Now, if I say, okay, well, I don't like doing spreadsheets and I'm your boss.
So now you do spreadsheets.
And you also hate spreadsheets that's not going, I'm not going to get the same out
of you.
I'm not going to get the same like excitement and you might be very well
qualified for all of these other things.
But if it just comes down to, well, this is the person I have, I've just found
myself looking for people and I've, I found myself in my personal life.
Where I went to college and I went to school and I was terrible at it and I
hated all of it.
And then I had a mind shift where I said, well, I want to go to school for, for
sales marketing management.
And then I went from like, oh, a C maybe be a one a every year student to like,
oh, I am on, you know, honor roll.
And it was because I realized, Hey, this is what I love.
This is what I want to do.
And I've found like when I'm working with volunteers, cause a lot of times working
with nonprofits, I'm working with volunteers.
I'm not necessarily going up to people and saying, Hey, you are board member.
I need you to do this.
You are board member.
I need you to do this.
I'll say, Hey, here are the projects I have.
I need you to do this.
I'll say, Hey, here are the projects I have.
Which of these speaks most to you?
Do you like writing handwritten notes?
Do you want to be on this?
Do you want to do this?
And I'm always trying to find out where people want to be because it's that same
thing I already said, which is you get the best out of people when you actually put
them in positions they want to be in.
Exactly.
I think that that is something that is so difficult for people to kind of see at times.
I mean, I've done the strengths finder as well.
You know, I'm more of a futuristic and idea person communication.
So it sounds like you and I are very similar on what we are good at.
And it's, it's something that I've kind of seen throughout as smaller nonprofits or
businesses grow, what I have seen is people typically gravitate towards people that they
get along with personally.
And typically it is people that have very similar strengths where they are also an
idea person and they really love talking about ideas or they're a very technical person
that can really get down on the weeds with that person.
But if that's what you're focused on, then you just kind of have two people that are
good at the same thing.
And then it turns into exactly what you just said, where somebody feels unfulfilled or
they aren't quite as good at it and they're really trying, but they're not quite getting
it.
And especially on smaller bootstrappy teams, it is very important for us to be working
at a hundred plus percent as often as we possibly can.
So I think that that is something that is so useful when you're in the nonprofit world
or the business world for people to take into consideration.
And something that kind of came up while we were talking that I also would love to go
a little bit deeper into is when it comes to enrolling people into bidding or donating
money for a nonprofit.
You mentioned earlier that there was that experience at the benefit auction for the
Heart Association that you're able to kind of be a little cheeky, kind of have that
rapport with people.
And I'm just curious, like, what made you so confident that that would work?
It seems like that's a little bit of a risky thing to do, kind of, you know, prodding and
poking at someone essentially, but it worked out in the nonprofit's favor.
And I'm just curious, like, what do you think, what skills went into being able to do
something so small but significant like that?
So the craziest thing to me is like, it almost feels natural to me.
And that's not me being like, oh, I'm so good at this.
No, but it's I worked auctions from the age of five and you get very good at reading
what people are going to do or if they're interested in bidding again, or if, like, I
can typically look at a person and be like, oh, this one's out.
Like, he bid, but he's done.
Or I can look at this person and be like, oh, you know, if I apply the right positive,
funny, like, coercion a little bit, like, because I do everything positive.
I do not do negative when I'm at an event.
I can kind of convince them.
Now, the funny thing is I know somebody who doesn't work benefit auctions, who's
much better at this.
There's an auctioneer on my dad's team named Keith, and I've been working with Keith
basically as long as I can remember.
And he'll walk up to someone and he'll be selling, like, something that is
basically has no worth at all.
And he'll just look at someone and he's like, you want it for 250.
He's like, yeah, I'll take it.
I'm like, where did that come from?
You know, and he just gets it and he can just read people.
And that's one of those things that, like, if you work with people long enough in this
field, like, you're going to find out that people have certain tells and like, you know,
they might be looking at me a lot or they'll be looking at stage or they've got a big
smile. Like, one of the best lines I always say is like when I'm taking bids, I'll be
like, 25, would you give 30?
Would you give 30? Thank you.
And now 35 and now 35.
Now 35.
You're still smiling.
35, 35 and now 40.
And then I'll go back and then they'll be frowning and they'll be frowning on purpose
because they know because like sometimes it's like people are still excited, smiling and
you can see it in their face.
And unless you really know what's going on and you've done this a lot, it's hard to kind
of pick that up.
How interesting.
That's so funny.
You know, I grew up showing sheep and goats at the county fair where I grew up and I was
always so enthralled and like interested in the auctioneer because it just seemed like
such a fun, like very fun, interesting thing to do.
Right. And, you know, you always want to be buddy buddy with the auctioneer because if
they liked you, they'd try a little bit harder.
Like you could tell. Right.
So it's so interesting that you're able to kind of like pick out because I know you're
not necessarily like in their face necessarily.
So you're I'm imagining that you're kind of looking out at them from some kind of podium
or lectern or front of the room and able to kind of see those different.
Just like the smiling thing that you just said, right?
Like what I noticed there was you were calling out something positive where it sounds like
they were the one that were in the lead.
Oh, you're smiling like there's that positive aspect.
Then they get outbid and then now they're frowning.
And now you're kind of like, you know, I imagine that you look at them again and they're
like, well, I want to get back in the race.
So and so my like I have just so many bad jokes and that like my favorite one to do is
I can only do if I have someone helping me.
And and so like this will be when we're we're up to some money.
Let's say we're at like five thousand dollars and I'm asking for fifty five hundred fifty
five hundred. Would you get fifty five hundred?
Would you get fifty five?
Sir, sir, I know this is a lot of money, but I promise you, if you say yes at fifty five
hundred, I will not ask you again.
And then they always say yes and no.
And then they always say yes at that point.
Yes. Fifty five hundred six thousand.
Yes. And then I said, no, sir, I told you I wouldn't ask you again.
And I am a man of my word.
So I am going to turn around and just auction.
And John, who's working with me on the floor, is going to, you know, make a sound if you
do. And then I turn around and I start auctioning basically wait and have someone else ask
him because I don't want to ask him because I'm not going to lie to their face.
And it's it's so much about making like the auction is part of the entertainment.
Like, ideally, your entertainment in an event should be something that doesn't distract
from the event. It should be mission focused.
It should be moving you forward.
And that's why I love the auction, because if your event is, let's say, an hour and a
half of speaking and it's just speaker, speaker, speaker, speaker, it can really drag on.
That's where having an auction can still stay mission focused because you're funding the
mission. But it's also entertainment.
That's so funny. I love the the canned jokes, you know, sir, I'm not going to ask you for
fifty five hundred again.
And I would imagine to be like, I never say anything about seven thousand.
Right. So it's funny that you're able to like, listen.
Yeah, that's so funny.
Yeah. So a term that I'm kind of working on, I'm sure it's already an established thing.
But like for my own understanding is like this phrase of like bucket words where you
have this word or this action or activity, like in your case, like like nonprofit
fundraising. Like that's the skill.
And there's this bucket. And to the outside, like it might just look like, oh, that's just
a skill you develop over time.
But inside, there's like these micro skills.
And it sounds like for in your case, there is that level of humor, rapport, communication,
understanding body language.
I'm going to throw humor in there again, because it sounds like that's a lot of it when
you're not just asking them for money.
Like you said, there's entertainment.
So I'm just curious, like if somebody were to want to start developing that bucket and
you know, there's the idea of the Pareto principle where 80 percent of the outcome
comes from 20 percent of the inputs.
Like very quickly, what would you say are the most important skills that people should
start developing to be good at asking for money or fundraisers?
So the first one, and it's one I'm always focused on because I didn't do this through
most of my life is smiling.
And people don't like that.
People like if you tell people, hey, you should smile, people get offended at that.
But like smiling is confident.
Smiling is happy.
People like people who smile.
And so when I go on stage, there might be eight things going wrong right now.
We might, I might not be able to see things because the bidding number is too small or
the lighting's coming down and I can't see anything.
But like the one thing, you know, it's kind of like control what you control.
And so the first thing I always say is smile.
Like I actually do some sales coaching at the college I graduated from.
And my first note is like either you need to smile more or this person has a good smile,
which makes me believe they know what they're doing because they look confident.
The other thing that really helped me kind of like what was the skill set was I did,
um, I did toast masters for about two years, but I really loved the table topics.
And what table topics is, is they give you a prompt and you need to talk about it for
two minutes and I went and I'm actually, I think technically speaking, I am the Minnesota
world champion in 2020 of table topics because this whole competition happened four days
after, um, after COVID hit in 2020.
And so there was supposed to be a district, then regional, then district regionals.
And they're supposed to be like six competitions, but since COVID hit, my region was
the only region that actually did it.
And so they had a table topic question and there's three people competing and it was,
the question was the world is ending, which by the way, aside very dark for like three
days after COVID and everything's locked down, but their question was the world's
ending in a month, what are you going to do with that last month?
And I was the first person to speak.
So I got to hear everyone else speak and everyone else was like, Oh, I would spend time
with my family and my loved ones and just, you know, all the canned whatever answers.
And my answer was something completely different.
And it was, I said, you know, I've given a lot of thought to this and I have to tell
you over the last 10 years, I've lost 110 pounds.
And if I were to die in a month, I would eat every single terrible thing.
I could possibly imagine I would get sick every night eating pizza that I, I kept
myself from eating all the corn dogs, all the fried chicken, all the pizza, all the
spaghetti, everything, and I would eat it all till I'm sick.
And that's the way I want to go out because I spent the last decade making sure I'd
live for five more and all this.
And I won the competition.
Because like so many people, like kind of look at things the same way and they're
like, what's the way to look at this?
But I also just get in my head and think like, what is the most ridiculous way that
I can stand behind and say, yes, this is what I'm doing.
And why is this skill so important?
Well, because things always happen on stage.
You're on, on stage in front of hundreds of people.
I've never been to an event where at least one unexpected thing doesn't happen.
And most of them happen when I'm on stage and I need to smile and just pivot, adapt,
go.
And so that ability to kind of practice being off the cuff, moving while smiling,
while still being a great representation of the nonprofit is so important.
No, that's not true.
No, that's so funny.
And I recently just released an episode about how Toastmasters is such a help.
I was in it in college for a couple of years.
I'm in it right now.
We just had our humorous speech contest and I got first place at the club level.
So I'm competing next week and I competed up to area or district and table topics
for us when I was in college.
So I'm so glad that you and I are on the same page of just how useful Toastmasters
is. And I've also heard that some people say, oh, well, I already do some public
speaking. I'm already pretty good at it.
So I don't need it.
But I think it's just one of those things where every week you get up and you just
practice, you can try things, you can experiment and you might share the sentiment
also. But one of the things that I mentioned in table topics or B&I, I would much
rather screw up a pitch or a speech or something in front of people in the group
than in front of a customer or client or on stage.
Like, I want to get those kinks out and try things there, see what lands before I
go and try to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for some nonprofit.
So that's awesome.
You know, one thing you said I have to say something to because I get it all the
time when I'm working with people is, oh, I'm a good speaker.
I'm a good public speaker.
And my response to that is always one of my mentors told me, you know, Garth Brooks
sells out stadiums.
He still practices before he plays.
And I was just like, oh, so if you want to go do something so big as like,
especially for nonprofits, if you want to just be like, oh, this person, he's so
good on stage.
No, that person should be practicing what they're saying, refining it, because this
is your timeline.
If you've only got an hour every minute counts.
And that's why it's so important to really focus into what do you want to say with
your time, especially for fundraising, much less everything else when you're in
front of people.
Definitely.
I think that's another thing, too, that I've noticed with coaching, you know,
because I do life coaching, business coaching is people say, oh, you know, I'm
everything's fine.
I don't need it.
Blah, blah, blah.
It's like Grant Cardone has a coach.
Like all these other crazy, successful people, like they have somebody in their
corner to help them out or to improve or to do whatever.
I think like what you're just saying also is like, you're never too good to not be
able to get better.
I think that is something that expands or goes beyond extends beyond any kind of
boundaries or industry.
Goodness, we have so many things that we could talk about today.
And I know that we mentioned before that we might be able to.
Have multiple episodes and go and even further in depth.
And I know that you have your blog and you talk about all these things.
We haven't even hit my notes yet.
I know.
And that's why I'm like, oh my gosh, like we're just kind of going off on it
already.
But one of the main things that I did want to talk about is the idea of a
business mindset for nonprofits.
You know, I worked in nonprofits for a couple of years at the Northern
California Herb Society.
Which is lizards, snakes, reptiles, et cetera.
And something that came up for us was the weird butting of heads between we're a
nonprofit, not a business.
Therefore, we shouldn't focus so much on the money.
Whereas in my experience, you know, I got my degree in economics from UC Davis.
Like I'm all the more, you know, a business focus in my mind is the more money we
have, the more good that we can do with it.
And talking to other nonprofits across the US or just friends that have been
involved is they kind of share that similar sentiment of I don't like asking
for money.
I don't feel like that should be something that we focus on.
Like we should, you know what I mean?
So I'm just curious, like what are your thoughts on that mindset shifts and what
should nonprofit leaders be working towards in their business?
So I could go in eight different ways.
So I could go in eight different directions, but I'm going to try and be as
concise as possible.
When I say this, like you need to keep a mindset of business because if you don't
someone else will.
There's another nonprofit out there that will, they will invest the money in
themselves and getting their words out and getting their market it marketing out to
people.
It's necessary necessity of doing your mission because you can do the best work
in the world, but if no one knows what you're doing and no one's getting to you
and you're not reaching anyone, you can save a thousand lives.
But if, if only those thousand people know it, you, you aren't going to get the
funding to magically appear.
And I'm not necessarily saying like, shout it out on, on social media or how, or
you need to put a huge plan together, but just like business nonprofits need to
take a very strategic look at where their money's going and take reasonable risks
and say, okay, you know, we have these skillsets cause you and I were just
talking about like, well, we have very similar skillsets.
Maybe we wouldn't work together well because we would overlap on what we both
love and what we're both good at.
However, if it came down to like, okay, well, this is your skill set.
This is what you do well.
Okay, now we need to hire someone to handle the fundraising.
Everyone here is very mission focused.
I got into this work and I work with a lot of nonprofits because like, I kind of
mentioned this before, but oh my gosh, I can help nonprofits with their fundraising.
I'm good at that part.
And I always look at that is that's how I can help nonprofits.
And the mission focus part of it is that like mission focus is important and it's
necessary to a great nonprofit, but you also need people looking at it from an
analytical standpoint and saying like, Hey, what's our business plan?
What's our plan to grow?
How are we going to reach our goals?
How are we going to like, because if your goal is to maintain your
shrink it because you know, everything gets more expensive all the time.
So if you raise the same $50,000 every single year, that $50,000 is worth
less and less and less.
And what happens and what happened with COVID where, you know, you and I have
talked about the scarcity mindset is a lot of nonprofits kind of tightened up
their belt in COVID because they said, Oh, we can't do big fundraisers anymore.
And they said, we're just going to tighten up.
Well, the problem with that is there's a couple of things.
One, if you can survive without donors who support you, then why
are donors supporting you?
And two, if you cut things because they're expensive, but they're very key
services, then you're telling those people that those key services aren't
as important as what else you're doing.
And I know it's very difficult and scary to say like, okay, we have to kind of
move into the unknown if we're going to continue doing what we've done.
If we're going to provide the same services that we've done, but then you
kind of have to take an inward look and say, Hey, are the people or animals or
you know, food we're serving worth the investment of our time and our talents?
And are like, is it worth taking a risk?
And I think it is simply because if you have like, if you have a nonprofit and
it does these things, and then it also does this, and then it just cuts all
of that off because it's expensive.
Was that ever important?
Of course it was important, but it was just inconvenient.
And you know, as harsh as it is, I think comfort was more important to them than
this part and finding the solution wasn't as important as doing what
they've always known in my opinion.
Yeah, no, I totally hear that that there is that.
I think what I would really love to know more is like, why do you think that
nonprofits typically seem to have that more like a scarcity mindset around their
money?
Like typically what I see is entrepreneurs or businesses are a little bit more on
that risk-taking side.
Like they'll try to spend that dollar to make two and they're more willing to
try that and you know, be more, see that failure as feedback if it doesn't work.
So I'm just curious, like, why do you think that nonprofits are trying to
do that as often?
I think it's really ingrained to the mindset of a nonprofit.
Nonprofits think there's no profit in them, but that's just silly.
Like they're, I'm pretty sure FIFA is a nonprofit, you know, like the major
soccer organization that, you know, is worth, I don't know, probably close to
trillions of dollars. I don't know. It's just huge. And it's a mindset of trying
to run as absolutely thin as possible.
And it's, it comes from a good place because they're like, okay, well, if we
only need $2 to run and we get 10, that means we can give eight out and we can
keep doing the mission and getting eight out.
So for every $2, $10 we get, we're still putting 80% of that out.
And that's a great thought.
But the problem with that is then you're really not investing in yourself to grow.
And it's very painful for some people because they don't want to spend money
because they're always looking at the today, the right now.
But sometimes investment is necessary because which is better, helping three
people a year or investing a little bit and, you know, taking very strategic,
well thought out plans and then saying, okay, well, we're not going to be helping.
We're only going to be helping one person this year because we invested this,
this, this, oh, guess what?
Next year we're helping five.
We're helping seven.
We're helping 10.
And it's a mindset thing because there is this kind of, you know,
there's this thought in the public world that it's like, oh, a nonprofit you do.
Like everyone donates to the nonprofit and the nonprofit doesn't spend money.
They give all the money away, but like nonprofits have employees.
Like people are paid by nonprofits.
They they're investing even if they think they're not investing.
And it's important to kind of, I'd say that it's important to be able to
it's kind of, it might come with the fiduciary, uh, kind of duty.
Like I know they don't have a, an official fiduciary duty, but they're
always looking at us, they have to be really good stewards of the money.
And which means you have to be able to kind of defend what you've done and said,
well, we hired Mike to help with this, which costs this much, but he made this
much, you know, it costs, he made six times what he, we paid him back.
And if I wasn't doing that and it's like, we paid this much, we took a chance on
this and it failed, now you have to explain the why, and honestly, it's
easier to not take risks.
I would say it's simply easier to not take risks, but I think there is a certain
ingrained in our very core of our principle is like, we are going to run
as slim as possible and we're going to service our people, but unfortunately
that's not, you know, that doesn't really meld well with growth in my opinion.
Yeah.
And a lot of what we're talking about right now reminds me of a part of a
book I'm reading right now.
It is by Sean Patel, self-made success.
He was able to strike a deal with one of the sharks on Shark Tank.
And in the book, he mentioned something about the idea of getting a bigger
piece of the pie and kind of like what we're talking about just a second ago.
Like if we imagine there's a pie with 10 slices and two of those slices are the
operating costs for the nonprofit.
Those other eight slices are what you could give out to, you know, help, each
one might represent a dog or a cat that got re-homed or a heart that was given
to somebody that needed it.
Now the typical idea is while there's these eight pieces of excess, get rid of
them, like give it out so that we can achieve our mission, which is great.
But like you said, now you're just left with the two pieces to get through the
year, whereas it sounds like what you're doing is, you know, hold back a couple
of those slices so that next year we have a pie that can be 12 slices and then 15
and then 20 and 30 so that it's like, you know, eventually it might cost 10 slices
to feed the nonprofit itself.
But now you're able to supply 30 animals with homes or 30 hearts.
Like it's, it's in the moment, it might feel like you could do more, but it's
just understanding that as time goes on, you're investing in the nonprofit just
like you would with a business.
And that, that output isn't necessarily with a business.
The goal is to make a profit.
But with a nonprofit, your goal is to make that profit so that you're, you're
supplying that good output, that good mission driven thing that you're trying to do.
So that, that sounds like a lot of what you're talking about now is increase the
size of that pie so that you can help more people.
Well, and one of the things that I really, you know, we're talking about like all of
this and we're missing the key element for me, which is time.
Because just because things are away right now, like time is undefeated, you know,
time will all always take all of us.
Like I use this as an example, because I have an example that's very similar to this.
I'm talking to a nonprofit.
And so I say, imagine you run a nonprofit community theater.
Your longtime theater director has been in the organization for decades.
And in the past, multiple of your actors have gone on to work on Broadway.
That's an incredible story.
You cannot, you can fundraise so much on that, but here's the problem.
Your nonprofit directors in their late, your, sorry, your director is in their late seventies.
Now they have all these connections to on Broadway actors, like relationships, they've
cultivated all of these things, but their credibility is deep.
Credibility is deeply tied to them.
All of your nonprofits fundraising is deeply tied to them.
Now you can say, well, we're doing fine.
We're doing fine.
But the question isn't whether you can reach your fundraising goals.
It's can you reach your fundraising goals?
But so are something terrible changes because guess what?
This director is going to die at some point.
All of those connections are going to disappear.
And so a lot of nonprofits don't really live with a, hey, time is finite.
Resources are finite.
We need to move well and grow while we have it.
Because guess what?
In 10 years, you know, something might happen and he might not be working anymore.
In five years, he might not be working anymore.
You know, as morbid as this sounds, he could die tomorrow.
And where are you at?
And you can keep trying to kick the ball down the road.
But time, we never really think about time that way.
When it comes to fundraising, we don't think of the cost of waiting a year.
It's like, oh, we'll do that next year.
We'll grow next year.
We'll put that off next year.
But like, there's only so many next years left, especially if you have good donor base.
Let's say you have an amazing donor base.
If you're not growing, you run the risk of like, let's say your donors are in their 60s.
Well, that's a definite time limit to grow your donor base to the 30s, 40s, 20s, and 50s.
Because if your donors are 60s, then they're 70s, then they're 80s,
your money's going to dry up and it's going to, it's going to go off a cliff.
And that's why time is so important because people don't think of time as their investment.
And time is not just two hours.
It's two years.
Yeah, it's two years, two, two decades, whatever.
Like there's, there's that such an, that's such an interesting thing to think of too.
I think a lot of it also goes to just that idea of comfort.
Earlier, you mentioned that it might be easier to cut certain areas
because it is the easy thing to do.
It might be more simple to just stick with the donors that you've had for 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years
without realizing that you've been cultivating this group for a long time.
That you've been cultivating this group for so long that you haven't started getting like the new blood in.
And there's, there's a nonprofit that I met out here in the San Mateo, California area
where they're investing in something called the NextGen board,
where it's a board of directors that sits underneath the actual board.
But it's like kind of raising them up to be leaders in their community,
kind of hoping to bleed into their board moving up.
And I thought that that was a unique and interesting thing to kind of cultivate young leadership.
But it sounds like that might be something also in terms of donors down the road.
Something that I wanted to touch on a little bit more,
and I know we're running a little bit out of time,
and I think we're not going to get to the board of directors aspect,
but I know you've mentioned that you have a blog series coming up for that as well.
And we might bring you back on later on to talk more about board directors and more so piecing together a board based off of skills and experiences, etc.
But something that I wanted to touch on a little bit more that might be more impactful for both nonprofit leaders and entrepreneurs and socialpreneurs
is the idea of storytelling and how that aspect really does tie into raising money or enrolling people to purchase your product or service.
A type of business that I super, super love and I really resonate with is called a social printer.
Have you heard of that term before?
I haven't. Tell me a little bit more about it.
So the idea of a social printer is somebody that says, I'm not sure if this idea is a business or a nonprofit.
Those are the types of businesses that I love.
So a great example of that is a chocolate company called Tony's Chocolonely.
And what they do is they're a higher quality chocolate company,
but their main focus, their mission is to diminish and eventually get rid of child and slave labor in the cacao industry.
And they're doing that by paying their cacao producers more.
They're bringing an awareness to it.
Every single chocolate bar has their mission on it and it informs people that, hey, the traditional chocolate company has a ton of slave and child labor in it.
We don't.
That is something we're trying to change.
So there's like that, like more of a nonprofit messaging behind it, but they're selling a product to do it.
Another example is Cold-Blooded Caffeine Company in South Carolina.
And what they do is they are reptile breeders and keepers by trade and hobby.
But they started this coffee company because they realized that a lot of coffee is sourced from the same companies or the same countries that reptiles and amphibians in the pet trade come from.
So they were like, oh, that's interesting.
Then they started seeing that there's all this deforestation.
There's a lot of ethical and environmental issues in the coffee industry.
So they said, we're going to donate a 10 to 15% of our proceeds to these various organizations that are changing the way that coffee is harvested.
So that is a quick two or three minute pitch for those companies too.
Not sponsored by them anymore, but I just love what they do.
And a lot of that is tied around, again, the mission, the messaging and storytelling.
So when it comes to a nonprofit or a business, it sounds like communicating their mission, vision, values, and how that mission ties in with the individual donor or buyer.
Does that kind of make sense?
I actually love, I want to point this out before I go into storytelling, because it's actually a great example of it.
The coffee company you spoke about is amazing because what I'm always talking to nonprofits about is can you tell your story through your event?
When you fundraise or when you're selling a product, is the mission directly connected and interweaved and intertwined with what you're doing?
So the coffee being like, well, we want to raise money for these reptiles.
And these are the same places that these reptiles are. Like, that's very intuitive. It's not like, hey, we are selling headphones and we care about reptiles.
Like that, that's those are like, I mean, it still works, but it's great to see that.
And why storytelling is so important is because it informs everything.
And so then when you're saying like you're nonprofit, how is your story being formed in the night?
Because for me, like the biggest portion that kind of sets me apart from other people in what I do is I'm really story focused.
And I, because I love telling stories.
I mean, you've already heard me tell like six of them.
I tried to stay concise in these stories.
And the story of your nonprofit and why it's important is so important to get through to the people, because that's what will motivate people to give.
Can you tell this story in such a way that will motivate different people?
Like, my goal is when I'm doing an event, I want to tell the story and like, I want to tell the story.
And like, even in these socialpreneur businesses, like you need to tell your story in a way.
And that's very difficult in that mindset for me, because like, for me, I'm like, okay, I have an hour to tell the story from as many angles as I can to do this, this, this, this, this.
But I also have to tell the story without people asking questions.
So not only do I have to tell the story, but I also have to answer objections that people haven't made.
And when I listen to like businesses like that, that always really, you know, sparks my interest a little bit, because you can see that the mission is direct, directly connected to the nonprofit and really put or directly.
Connected to the food or the mission and say, Hey, this is, this is our, you know, what makes us different.
This is why we have these great people working for us, because they know this is our mission and it's not just about like, well, so and so is going to make all of this money.
And if we do good, we will get part of it.
Like all the best places to work have that very mission focus. My wife works at a job she absolutely loves and the company's whole point, like one of their big goals is to give their employees a fulfilling.
Like team first atmosphere and they sell insurance and it's like, we, we put like our employees first because our main mission isn't the money. It's giving these people a good place to work where they are put first.
And if we put our people first, they will put their clients first.
I love that. So when it comes to telling that story, if you were to give like a three steps to your great, a great story, like, what would you say are the elements of that story?
So if you want to raise money, the three elements to a good story is one, you have to tell why people should care. Like, oh, what are you doing? Which is the obvious. But before that, you have to tell the story.
What are the good things you've done for the community? And then the, so you need to show people what's the good you've done and why do they care? And then you kind of have to show them the good things that you've done for the community.
Now those actually connect to a little bit different things. So one of those things, what you have done is actually stewardship. Stewardship is how you're going to get donations because you're showing that you're doing something good.
So you need to show good stewards stewardship of that. The next thing is, you need to show good stewardship of that. So if you're going to get donations, you need to show good stewardship of that.
If I were to give you a thousand dollars, you have a history of doing good work with the thousand dollars you've gotten from other people. So you need to show good stewards stewardship of that. The next thing is you have to show that you have a plan.
So like, maybe you're good with the thousand dollars you've gotten. Now you're saying, how do I show that you have a plan? So if you give me a thousand dollars now, here's where the money is going.
And then after that point, you get the money. And then guess what? A year down the road, you're showing people what you've done with that thousand dollars. So like, you have to tell your story, you know, which includes stewardship.
You have to show that you've done it before and where you're going and what's your plan. And then you kind of have to ask for it. And it's simple but complex because it's never done the same way twice.
Oh, that's perfect. I love the very clear and concise message. It looks like you know what you're talking about, obviously. When it comes to, okay, so you do have a couple of questions that I wanted to get to.
One of them, it was from a friend that is just kind of like they're in a smaller nonprofit, you know, they're still trying to figure out their donor base. And her question was essentially along the lines of what is the outline of an ask?
You know, so if they, you know, you're telling people why you're good, why they should care, what you're going to do to get funded. But she was curious, you know, she's really good at talking to people and explaining the message. But is it just, I'm going to explain what the message to you and I'm going to ask you and then I send you a thank you letter? Like, what is that lifespan of a donation? Or if there even is one?
So it's very interesting because there's completely different types of asks and they can be all over the place. Like you can have an ask that is a one on one ask, which is not what I specialize in, but I can kind of give you some idea.
Or you can have an ask that's for hundreds on one. That's what I specialize in. But like the important thing with an ask that like is universal is you need to have something. So let's say you're making an ask for $10,000 from a big donor, right?
And you're saying, listen, we need to get new cages for these reptiles because currently it like they're the cages are being pulled apart. Now, like reptiles are getting cut on them because they're like falling apart.
Okay. So what you want is you need an ask that is easily showable, like, or something that you can come bring back to them and say, Hey, I just wanted to show you your $10,000 did what we promised your $10,000 is going to do.
So the first step is having a good ask. Now, what are bad asks? Now that's not to say these asks should never be done. But if you're asking for something that's like, Hey, we need $10,000 for our general fund.
So we can continue working like I would never suggest doing that. I'm not saying never do it. I'm just saying it's hard to show where that $10,000 is going. And you can't show good stewardship if you can't show where the money's going.
And it's very easy for fraud to be a thing. And unfortunately, there's a lot of businesses and nonprofits that do fraud. And so to that's why stewardship is so much of an important thing. So like, what's the outline of your ask?
I know I just kind of went in a little bit of a different direction with that. But the ask is tell your story. So one, you have to have an outline of what you're looking for. Like, I need this for this.
Tell a story, a compelling story, ideally of what you've done with this type of money before. And then you have to also take away the fear from them that they're like, Oh, well, do they know what they're doing with this money?
You lay it out for them and you say, okay, we do this, we do this, we do this. And we've planned for all these things. All we need is the money at this point. We, if you give us this $10,000, this, this, this, this, this, and this will happen.
We've already put in all the legwork to make sure it happens. And then kind of put it out to them and ask. And then you have to also figure out how do you like to speak? How do you put it in your voice and not my voice?
Because at the end of the day, you're going to need to make these asks and you have to figure out the best way is practice is to practice that with people with friends. Get feedback on your asks.
So you so, you know, like we were talking about table topics, like we were talking about Toastmasters, like you don't want your first task to be in front of a $10,000 donor. You want to have practiced that.
No, that's, that's fantastic. I think that just, yeah, again, and I think that goes back to also even for, for businesses is what is your offer? What is the transformation? Do you have testimonials? Do you have past experience in this aspect?
Like, what are you able to do on either side? If you're a business looking at nonprofits for inspiration or vice versa, there's going to be different, similar aspects to that.
So I think that that is super valuable. And just as a reminded plug for anybody that ever wants to, you are able to watch these episodes live. It looks like that we have, do you have one person in the audience right now?
Here in the audience, you're always able to ask questions throughout the episode. And if you want to watch future episodes, watch my Instagram for posts about guests that we are going to have on the podcast.
You're able to comment the questions on the post as well as in the actual question. And to kind of round us off, we're a little bit over time already, but I want to get this one out there as well.
This is from somebody on one of my Instagram posts. If you are a small scale nonprofit, less than a hundred thousand dollars per year in donations, very low operating expenses, no employees, but we have a large board of volunteers.
What should be your number one priority for growth?
Well, for me, the number one priority for growth will be definitely like looking through your, through your whole list and saying like, do we have people? What do we do?
What, like, because for me, I will always say, and you know, spoiler alert, I am a fundraising auctioneer. So I kind of say like, my answer is going to be Gala. But like when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
However, now that I've given that, you know, that disclaimer, I always feel the need to give that disclaimer. If you look at every major fundraising event that raises millions of dollars, unless it's a concert by the Foo Fighters, it's a Gala.
It is the best way to raise money. And it's also a lot of work. It's, but one thing it will allow you to do is raise significant funds. And why you want to do that in one event is because then you get to focus on your mission the rest of the year.
If you're doing six to eight fundraisers, getting 3,000 here, 5,000 there, 2,000 over here, 10,000, ooh, that was a good one. That's all time you're asking for funds from the same people. That's all time you're asking for funds again and again.
Then people start wondering like, okay, like they're raising funds for this, but do they do the mission or do they just run a fundraising organization? You never want to get there. My suggestion is put together a team and put together a benefit.
That's what I do. I consult. And so my suggestion would be to hire me. But other than that, I would laugh that off and say, what you really need to do is put together a strategic plan to what does a successful Gala look like to you?
What is a goal? Where do you wait? Like is your goal if you have a hundred thousand dollar budget is your goal to add 30 and 40,000 let's say $40,000. Oh, that seems like a ton. Okay. But if you could get to $40,000, what would you do with it?
Now, there's going to be costs involved. So you're not going to end up with 40,000. Even if you raise 40,000, you'll probably sit be sitting at $30,000. And then you just sit down and I typically sit down with nonprofits and I say, okay, here's my math equation to how you're going to raise $40,000 at this event.
What percentage is this? What percentage is this? It's, you know, I always say it's not magical. It's mathematical. And I help you set that up in a way to say this. And then the other thing is I take a lot of the guesswork out of doing your first event.
So that's kind of what I do, but that's very self-serving because that's kind of what I do. But even if you didn't go with me, I would say the best strategy is a gallop, but it's also one of the largest time commitments you can commit to.
There are a lot of other things. I don't like this and you know, I always catch a little flack of this for this, but I don't like restaurant fundraisers. I don't like selling things for other businesses because let's say someone comes up to my door and they're selling a candy bar.
I'm just like, here's $5. I don't want your candy. Give it to the mission because if I sell it, if, you know, aging myself a little bit here, if someone sells me a candy bar for a dollar, I know that 60% of that isn't going to the nonprofit.
My goal is to figure out how can the highest percentage of the money donated go to the nonprofit. If a restaurant is doing a fundraiser for you and you say, hey, everyone come to whatever, whatever pizza ranch and we're going to have this fundraiser.
We are getting 10% of all the funds raised. That's great. You just dropped eight, like $8,000 in there and now you're at 800 and that was your donors that went to support you and you only got 10% of it.
That's why I look at galas, but you know, that's a long way to say gala. A gala is the way you want to do it. If you want to raise significant funds.
Yeah. And I think if I was going to put that into that, that bucket format, right? So the bucket is gala. Here's this thing. Like this is what you want to aim for. It also sounds like with that, it's being clear on your mission, being clear on the needs of the organization, having a support group.
Cause I know that you mentioned that you want to be able to sell at least like 50 or a hundred tickets or something. So there's like the very specific brass tax things that we could get into another time, but you need to have people that are willing to put their money where their mouth is that are willing to show up for you.
You need to have that social media reach, maybe some relationships with other organizations or I don't know, caterers, whatever, whatever we want to get into. It sounds like there's a lot that goes into being able to put on a gala in the first place.
So maybe if you're a lower nonprofit, maybe a gala isn't in the cards for this year, but by putting in the work and getting ready to have one, you're going to be leaps and bounds ahead of where you are right now.
And that's one thing about, uh, I kind of started with that. I said, like, you didn't need to look at your donors a little bit because the first question I always ask for nonprofits and it's been very small nonprofits too, is can you get a hundred people that care and will pay for tickets to your event?
And I've seen very small places say like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. But then I've also heard people at that chapter say, oh, we're going to get a hundred people in here.
I am going to make phone calls because I believe in the mission, but you're 100% right. If you can't get a hundred people to pay, I don't know, 50, a hundred dollars to support your mission, then you're not ready to have a gala.
And that's nothing wrong with that. It's just, it's, there is a certain level of we need, you need, you know, support from the community to do a gala. Otherwise, like, you can have the best event ever.
But if you have 20 people there, you're not raising $40,000 unless you're planning on everyone dropping two grand.
And, and that's, you know, it's one of the things that really is difficult for me because like, I can't actually make people come to your event. That's, that's kind of as the nonprofit part of your prerogative.
You have to get people there. I can just help you like tell your story in a way that will motivate them.
Perfect. Well, I think that's about all we have time for for today. I think that future episodes may need to be recorded, but there's so much things and so many different topics that we talked about today that I think are going to be fantastic shorts.
And if people want a longer format, I know I'm going to make a blog out of this. And when it comes to blogs about all the topics that we talked about, I happen to know a guy that writes a ton about it.
So Mike, if people want to learn more about you, hire you for your services or just really dive deeper on all the topics that we talked about today, what would be the best way for them to do so?
So, um, I am on Facebook, Black Diamond Benefits. I am on Instagram, Black Diamond Benefits. I'm on LinkedIn also, but I have a blog, Black Diamond Benefits dot bid. And that is updated every two weeks with a new blog focused on fundraising for nonprofits with the aim focused on events.
Now that might be something unconnected to events, but that's always where the direction goes from.
On that website, you'll also find my contact info, which is Mike at symbol sold it at auction.com. And that's my email. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Or if you want to know more or just have me come in and talk to your nonprofit about and learn more about where you're at and like if I can help you or, you know, even what's the next steps along the way.
Perfect. Mike, thank you so much for your time and for being willing to share your little bit of magic with listeners. I think there's so much more that I can learn from you. I'm going to be following along on socials and reading your blog and seeing where other like, you know, where the social printer can kind of tap into that wealth of information as well. So thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.
Yeah, thanks for yours. It's been fun.
Good. And thank you to the listener today. I super appreciate your time, attention and energy. I know that time is our most valuable resource and I super appreciate that you're willing to spend some of yours with us today. If you would like to get more information and learn more about the podcast and listen to more episodes, please feel free to subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you're listening or watching this right now.
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So as always, remember that the best is yet to come as long as you are willing to make the decision to never settle, never quit and never peak. I'll see you guys in the next one.