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Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everybody,

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and welcome to today's episode

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of the NeverPeak Project Podcast.

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Today we have another fantastic guest episode for all of you,

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so grab a cup of coffee, sit back, relax, and enjoy

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as we have a great discussion about overcoming trials

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and realizing that it's never really too late to start.

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In today's episode, I'm joined by a very special guest

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that was a guest on a podcast I have been a guest on

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in the past.

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What I really love about the podcasting game

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is that a lot of us kind of like, it's not sharing guests,

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but it's also very nice to kind of see who everybody else

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is working with and interviewing,

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because you already know that they're kind of primed,

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that they have a great story to tell.

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This guest that we have on today was on my friend

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Paul Breyley's podcast, Off the Comma.

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His episode will be linked in the description

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of this episode, but he reached out to me on LinkedIn

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and shared a little bit about his story.

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What I noticed is that there were quite a few parallels

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between his story and my own story.

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Just to kind of give a sneak peek,

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it's a lot to do with running and making the decision

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to be better and make shifts in your life.

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Our guest today is Mark Wiginton.

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I could read the whole bio that I read out

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or the prep sheet that I sent to him,

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but I think it is best for Mark to go ahead

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and just introduce himself and tell us a bit about

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why you're here and what you're hoping to share today.

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Awesome, thanks for having me.

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I really appreciate you sharing your audience with me today.

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And I like what you said about podcast hosts

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wanting to kind of share their guests

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because you know what you're getting.

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And this kind of the same thing is true

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on my side of the table.

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I mean, it's listening to you and Paul talk

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really helped me understand that we'll be able

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to connect really well.

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And I think our stories are really similar.

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I think you're probably at around the point in your life

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when I went through some really dramatic changes

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in my own life.

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And that's a big part of my message is that,

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you can get into your early 40s, into your mid 40s,

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even later and start again.

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So that's really the message I'm here

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to help communicate today.

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I work as a coach, I left full-time business

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where I've worked in sales and consulting and training.

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And I've worked as a counselor.

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Maybe we'll spend a little time talking about my time

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working at the jail and here in Austin, Texas.

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And some of the lessons learned there,

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but basically just have a well-rounded career.

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And now I'm in the phase where I'm bringing it all together

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through coaching and helping other people grow.

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Gotcha.

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Let's talk a little bit about that past.

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I don't think I caught the working in the jail part.

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Let's frame what you've done in the past

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through the lens of what led you to that career path

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and like what was important to you value wise

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about doing the work you were doing.

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Oh my gosh, that's our whole hour right there.

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We'll keep it tight.

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So, I mean, the reality is that since early in my career,

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I've really kind of worked at the intersection

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of psychology and business.

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And I was in the Air Force for a while

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and I went back to school and got a master's degree

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or a bachelor's degree in psychology.

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Met my wife, got married, came out, moved to Houston.

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And at night I worked in the Locks Psych Ward.

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And in the daytime, I worked as a trainer

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for one of kind of the first big Silicon Valley startups,

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helping people learn how to use these new electric

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computerized telephones where you could like press two

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buttons on the phone and put people on hold.

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I mean, this was a long time ago.

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And people really freaked out about the technology.

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And so I was using more of the skills that I had learned

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getting my bachelor's degree in that job than I did,

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you know, kind of at night, working with people

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who were really struggling with their mental health.

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Fast forward a little bit, that company after six years,

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you had a chance to take a sabbatical,

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a six week sabbatical or a 12 week sabbatical.

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And I took 12 weeks and went back to school

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and got my master's degree, came out,

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went back to work for about a month and said,

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this is not my path anymore.

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I also kind of in that window of time,

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I went to rehab and had some life changes

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that were tied into that.

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And I came out and I started working

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in community mental health here in Austin.

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I got my master's degree, I got my license as a counselor.

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I worked in community mental health

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and that included working kind of full time at the jail,

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but in a mental, in a rehab unit that was inpatient

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inside the jail.

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So think about that.

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People who are not super highly motivated

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to work and I really learned and grew and stretched through

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that.

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I also worked pretty much in every mental health setting

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that there was every mental health facility

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in kind of greater Austin, greater central Texas,

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just trying to make a living.

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And ultimately got to a point after about seven years

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where I went through a really dramatic life change

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that led me back into the business world.

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That then kind of the rest of my career

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was in the business world as I went through.

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And that life change was really kind of a critical spark

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for me that led me on the rest of my journey.

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Gotcha.

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And to clarify that life change,

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that was the sabbatical that we're kind of talking about.

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Is that the genesis of it or how does that?

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Yeah, so that was the start of it.

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So I went to, so I was a little out of order there

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and then I went to rehab.

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I came out, I went on the sabbatical

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that the company paid for and that led me to master's,

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to get my master's degree.

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And I started right then working in,

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I worked with a therapist in private practice.

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I worked in every setting you could imagine

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in community mental health.

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And a lot of my focus, Ranger, I mean, honestly,

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at that point, a lot of my focus was helping people

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learn to live kind of an abstinence over life, right?

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I was, again, working,

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like the psychologist that I worked in in the office,

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that was the emphasis of that practice

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was helping people learn how to live chemical free.

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Again, working in the jail and the rehab center,

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working in outpatient centers kind of all over town.

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And I was working pretty consistently in helping people

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learn kind of the key elements of recovery,

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the first phases of recovery,

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and most importantly, helping people learn

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how to work their way through relapse.

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And the thing that,

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I talk about the second big turning point

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and after I went back to school

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and seven years later going back to business,

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and what really happened there for me was that I relapsed.

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And as a guy who had just spent

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the last seven years of his life,

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sober, active in 12 step programs,

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teaching other people how to do it,

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when I relapsed, my world really kind of collapsed.

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While I was in a place where I was really able

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to talk to people about what it meant to relapse

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and give yourself grace and move forward,

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I wasn't able to give that self to myself,

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that give that gift to myself,

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because of my own perfectionism and whatever other issues.

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So I decided that I really needed to leave the field

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and I went back into the business world

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and spent the rest of my career in the business world.

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And I had a pretty another major milestone

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that happened in my journey that led me

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to kind of the next phase of my life through my 40s,

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my late 40s until I left full-time business

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a couple of years ago.

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I think something that I've noticed by having conversations

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with so many different people is it,

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there's so many different aspects and things

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that you've talked about so far

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that even just these small segments sound like a lifetime.

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Yeah.

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And you're like, this is just a piece of it.

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This sector, this part, and like there's so much more to do

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and so much more to live.

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And I think that that's just something that I'm kind of

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not noticing for the first time,

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but it's almost like that it's adding like an extra

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solidifier to where it's like, okay, now this thing

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that I've noticed is more solid now.

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Does that kind of make sense?

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Yeah, I think that's really true.

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I mean, I have listened to a few of your podcasts

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and about your journey and the exploration

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and understanding that you kind of came to

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in those 180 days ish that you were walking

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across the country having the time to reflect on yourself.

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I mean, I think that leaves you profoundly changed, right?

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And opens people's eyes to seeing things

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in a new and different way.

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I think the same thing is true in my life

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and in the experience of, if I continue that journey

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that I talked about before, when I relapsed

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and I went back into the business world,

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I was a very different person.

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I was very much back out, as they might say in the program.

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And I spent the next eight years really kind of living

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almost a double life.

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I found work that had me on the road.

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So I was working as a consultant, as a trainer.

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I was always gone.

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I was always away.

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I didn't have a good foundation behind me.

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And ultimately I got to a place where I needed

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to make a change in my life.

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And honestly, Ranger, ultimately what happened to me

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is that I got a DWI while I was working on the program.

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I was working on a job.

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And if I was crushed seven years earlier

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when I had a relapse and had to make a change away

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from something I'd been working on for so many years,

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I was devastated when that happened.

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It was really, it was a catalyst for major change.

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Today I kind of see and understand that.

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But back then, I mean, I was just devastated.

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Now with reflection, I can see that a lot of those things

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that happened that I thought were overwhelming

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and devastating, particularly throughout my life,

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it turns out that those were the best worst things

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that ever happened because they led me

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to this place of change and helped me learn and grow.

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Now, when I was in the big hairy middle of it, no,

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I didn't feel that way at all.

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He was like, oh no, right.

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But it led me to major, major changes.

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So going to rehab was the best worst thing

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that ever happened to me.

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I couldn't believe I was in that place.

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Having that major relapse was the best worst thing

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that could happen to me.

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I just could not, I could not comprehend

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that that happened to me.

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And I was so ashamed and so tied up in guilt.

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The DWI was the same way.

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It was like, oh my God, what have I done with my life?

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And it led me, that was about,

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so that was 20 years ago, it will be 20 years ago this year

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that that happened.

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And my life has just been totally transformed

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by that experience.

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Gotcha.

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So to kind of pull it back to something we were talking

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about near the beginning of the call,

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I think that this kind of,

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I think the theme of what I'm gonna ask

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is gonna kind of care into the next part of our conversation.

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But you said that you worked a lot with technology

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and kind of training folks on how to use new systems.

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You know, it sounds like going,

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just advancing systems over time.

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And you kind of mentioned

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that you think an apprehension to change.

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Or people were a little bit scared of it

260
00:11:27,420 --> 00:11:29,380
or not sure about it.

261
00:11:29,380 --> 00:11:32,020
It seems like a lot of people's first reaction to change

262
00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:36,220
is no, or it's scary, or there's that apprehension.

263
00:11:36,220 --> 00:11:37,460
Why do you think that is?

264
00:11:38,340 --> 00:11:39,700
Well, it's pretty normal.

265
00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:41,620
You know, I mean, we get comfortable

266
00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:43,700
in the situation that we have.

267
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:45,300
We're working through it.

268
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:49,620
You know, I work now in kind of in my coaching practice,

269
00:11:49,620 --> 00:11:51,620
I work with a lot of people who are in transition,

270
00:11:51,620 --> 00:11:54,300
people who are kind of in their 50s,

271
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:55,940
maybe a little bit older than that,

272
00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:57,580
that are really kind of in that place

273
00:11:57,580 --> 00:11:58,780
where they're making those changes.

274
00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:00,660
And there's really kind of three phases.

275
00:12:02,020 --> 00:12:03,460
I'm gonna name them,

276
00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:06,180
but they don't always fall in this order, right?

277
00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:08,300
So the first thing that happens,

278
00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:10,060
typically though this does fall first,

279
00:12:10,060 --> 00:12:11,060
the first thing that happens

280
00:12:11,060 --> 00:12:13,420
is there's some kind of dramatic ending, right?

281
00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:15,100
There has to be a dramatic ending

282
00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,540
in order for somebody to be comfortable enough

283
00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,900
to start even considering making a change in their life.

284
00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:22,140
Something happens.

285
00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:25,540
And then you kind of move into a phase of the messy middle.

286
00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:27,540
And that's where you're kind of sorting it all out.

287
00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:29,700
You're trying to figure out what does this mean?

288
00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:32,700
You know, what are my next steps?

289
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:33,900
What do I have to do?

290
00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:35,460
It was so comfortable back here,

291
00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:38,300
but at the same time, there were real challenges with this.

292
00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:40,060
And I kind of want to move forward,

293
00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:41,460
but I don't really know where to go.

294
00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:43,420
It's like, and a lot of people use the example

295
00:12:43,420 --> 00:12:44,420
of the chrysalis, right?

296
00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:48,220
Of the caterpillar turning into the butterfly.

297
00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:49,420
And if you open that chrysalis,

298
00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:52,420
it's all gooey and kind of nasty in the middle.

299
00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:54,300
But ultimately this butterfly comes out of it

300
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:55,860
and that's the new beginning.

301
00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:57,660
So you go through those three phases.

302
00:12:57,660 --> 00:13:00,300
They aren't necessarily kind of in any particular,

303
00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:03,100
I guess they're actually in an order,

304
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,100
but there's not a structure to it as you go through.

305
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,820
Like you can like be in the messy middle

306
00:13:08,820 --> 00:13:10,700
and then go, oh yeah,

307
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:12,820
I'm in the middle of this big giant change.

308
00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:14,700
And then you realize that you have to let go

309
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:16,100
of something in the past, right?

310
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:18,460
So then you wind up having the ending,

311
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:20,420
even though you're kind of already sorting through

312
00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:21,260
what you're doing.

313
00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:23,780
Or you might be reaching forward towards something.

314
00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:25,780
When people are changing careers, a lot of times,

315
00:13:25,780 --> 00:13:28,900
it's like my first comment to them or question to them

316
00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:31,700
is are you running away from something in your past job?

317
00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:34,260
Are you running towards something in the future?

318
00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:36,260
You know, and kind of understanding the difference.

319
00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:39,460
So people get really caught up in that whole process

320
00:13:39,460 --> 00:13:42,420
and it can just be really overwhelming.

321
00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:46,100
There's some of the stuff that I've studied

322
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:48,540
and read most recently on change and transition

323
00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:50,180
says it can take five years to get through

324
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:52,060
a major life change.

325
00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:53,900
That's a long time to be working through it.

326
00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:55,060
And guess what?

327
00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:56,860
Life changes are happening faster and faster

328
00:13:56,860 --> 00:13:57,940
because of technology.

329
00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:00,500
So people might be experiencing a major life change

330
00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:05,380
every 18 months and it takes five years to get through it.

331
00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:07,620
So we're kind of in this constant state of change,

332
00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:09,140
this constant state of turmoil.

333
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:11,140
Interesting, yeah.

334
00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:12,220
And something that came up for me

335
00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:14,700
as you were talking about those three phases

336
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:17,020
was kind of like the phases of grief, right?

337
00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:19,100
That there's the five phases and

338
00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:23,260
they're kind of talked about very linearly

339
00:14:23,260 --> 00:14:25,340
but they happen kind of in tandem

340
00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:27,020
or you kind of get to this phase

341
00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:30,180
and then you go back air quotes around that

342
00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:32,220
to another phase and then you jump ahead.

343
00:14:32,220 --> 00:14:34,540
And it sounds like with,

344
00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:37,060
and I think that's so interesting that major life change

345
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:40,380
because I was thinking of a job change,

346
00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:43,900
moving, a death, a marriage, a kid being born.

347
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,140
And it sounds like your definition kind of goes,

348
00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:49,780
this is a weird way to put it,

349
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:51,380
but it's like even less than that

350
00:14:51,380 --> 00:14:53,460
can be a major change with technology.

351
00:14:53,460 --> 00:14:55,380
And I hadn't really thought of that.

352
00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,780
Like what would qualify then in,

353
00:14:58,780 --> 00:15:03,380
I guess like the general terms as a major life change?

354
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:06,620
So there's a bunch of pieces to it.

355
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:09,580
Let me go back to what you just said about technology

356
00:15:09,580 --> 00:15:12,580
and add another piece to the story, okay?

357
00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:14,740
So the company that I worked for

358
00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:15,820
was a company called Roam

359
00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:17,740
and they ultimately were bought by IBM.

360
00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:22,380
And so when I went to work for that company full time,

361
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:23,580
I was a software coder.

362
00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:26,140
I had been a contractor for them as a trainer.

363
00:15:26,140 --> 00:15:27,580
I was a software coder.

364
00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:29,980
And the IBM plant here in Austin

365
00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:33,020
was the very largest facility

366
00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:35,300
that Roam had ever tried to change

367
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:36,980
from kind of a standard phone system

368
00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:39,780
to being these new giant computerized phone systems.

369
00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:41,820
So I was involved in the team.

370
00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:43,660
I helped code things and blah, blah, blah.

371
00:15:43,660 --> 00:15:48,660
Okay, so fast forward, rehab, graduate school,

372
00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:50,220
came out of graduate school.

373
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:52,660
This is in the early 1990s.

374
00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:57,660
And in the early 1990s, IBM had their first ever layoff.

375
00:15:58,260 --> 00:16:00,780
So career center that was working with them,

376
00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:01,820
I reached out to them and said,

377
00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:03,500
hey, I just worked at IBM.

378
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,540
I've got my brand new shiny master's degree.

379
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:07,420
I can come in and work in the career center

380
00:16:07,420 --> 00:16:08,500
and work with these guys

381
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,580
because I kind of know a lot of them.

382
00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:13,620
And that was really amazing

383
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:17,020
because when we changed the phone system

384
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:19,820
over everybody's telephone number had to change.

385
00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:21,700
And Ranger, people were frequent, right?

386
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:23,740
They'd been in that office for 20 years.

387
00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:26,700
They had the same telephone number for 20 years.

388
00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:29,300
And before we could even talk to them

389
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:31,420
about the technology and how to use the phones,

390
00:16:31,420 --> 00:16:34,140
we had to deal with the change and the transition

391
00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:39,140
of what was this like to experience this new,

392
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:41,540
this new fangled technology.

393
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:43,660
And these are smart people, technical people.

394
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:46,620
At this point, these people were building the PCs, right?

395
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:49,940
The first generation of the personal computers.

396
00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:52,180
So it was really an amazing thing.

397
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:53,940
So then fast forward, after the layoff,

398
00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:56,020
I go back to IBM and I'm there.

399
00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:57,980
Now I'm working with the same people

400
00:16:57,980 --> 00:16:59,620
who I was working with three years ago

401
00:16:59,620 --> 00:17:01,380
helping them change their phone number.

402
00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:04,500
Now they're sitting across from me in my counselor role

403
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:08,820
going, I sat down with this company 20 years ago

404
00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:11,140
and they told me if I did a good job,

405
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:13,500
I had a good job for the rest of my life.

406
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:17,260
And now I'm 45 and I have to go out

407
00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:19,020
and try to find something new.

408
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:22,740
So a career change and the technology change

409
00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:25,140
and just the change of habits and process

410
00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:27,740
can be really critical to helping people.

411
00:17:27,740 --> 00:17:31,140
There's a book on transitions.

412
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:33,940
Bruce Feiler is the person that wrote it recently

413
00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:36,540
and he talks about the deck of life transitions

414
00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:39,940
and has 52 transitions broken up into five categories.

415
00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:43,100
So that gives you a sense of all the different things.

416
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,740
It's not just the big five with death and divorce

417
00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:47,940
and marriage and job changing kids.

418
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:49,940
There's a whole subset underneath that

419
00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:53,140
that's a really important part of it.

420
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:57,180
And this latest phase of my life,

421
00:17:57,180 --> 00:18:00,100
the part that's led me to deep exploration now

422
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:02,420
is a result, like you said, of grief.

423
00:18:02,420 --> 00:18:06,740
I lost my parents last year in a very short period of time.

424
00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:10,580
And that's really taken me on this journey of introspection

425
00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:14,580
and also, like you just said, it's really helped me learn.

426
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:17,420
It's not this linear thing to go through grief.

427
00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:19,820
I can be walking along in my neighborhood,

428
00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:21,700
doing my walk in the morning or whatever

429
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,820
and all of a sudden a car from one of the local hospices

430
00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:27,260
drives by because I'm at an intersection

431
00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:29,020
and they're turning right and I see that.

432
00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:30,540
And the next thing I know, I'm just

433
00:18:30,540 --> 00:18:33,860
kind of a puddle on the side of the road.

434
00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:36,540
So it just cycles that way.

435
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:38,860
And that's why I say, while there are phases,

436
00:18:38,860 --> 00:18:39,980
it's not really linear.

437
00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:42,060
You go back and forth continually

438
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:43,820
through that process of change.

439
00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:47,460
Yeah, and I think it's so interesting the impact

440
00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:50,100
that environmental triggers can have on us

441
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:51,340
to remember these things.

442
00:18:51,340 --> 00:18:54,420
Like we smell something that smells like grandma's house,

443
00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:56,940
like a random candle or a perfume,

444
00:18:56,940 --> 00:19:02,660
or we see a hospice vehicle or even just a way a lawn is cut.

445
00:19:02,660 --> 00:19:04,820
I'm just thinking such small things that we just

446
00:19:04,820 --> 00:19:06,780
kind of notice and see in our world

447
00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:09,820
and how drastic of an effect that has on us mentally,

448
00:19:09,820 --> 00:19:12,820
emotionally, and can really just change.

449
00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:17,580
That split second can change the rest of the day, week, month,

450
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:18,780
whatever.

451
00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:23,180
And like you said, it triggers a memory.

452
00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:29,020
Before my mother died, as her life was coming to a close,

453
00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,500
she had Alzheimer's.

454
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:34,660
And that really drives home the point that you just made,

455
00:19:34,660 --> 00:19:38,820
because by the end, she didn't know who I was.

456
00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:41,060
I mean, she had no idea anymore.

457
00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:43,740
And the Christmas before she passed away,

458
00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:46,380
we went to a sing-a-long.

459
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:48,380
She had no idea where we were.

460
00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:50,500
She had no idea who I was.

461
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:53,620
She knew every word to root off the red-nosed reindeer.

462
00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:55,860
Yeah.

463
00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:58,820
It's the depth of those grooves of those lessons.

464
00:19:58,820 --> 00:19:59,220
Yeah.

465
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:02,420
And I don't know if you saw this,

466
00:20:02,420 --> 00:20:05,580
but my grandfather passed of Alzheimer's in 2020.

467
00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:09,460
So I heard very similar stories from my Nana, my Nana Rose,

468
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:12,300
that he wouldn't remember these things,

469
00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:15,700
but very randomly things would just click.

470
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:20,340
And there's those brief moments of, wow, this is what it was.

471
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:22,300
However long ago.

472
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:23,260
Yeah.

473
00:20:23,260 --> 00:20:24,980
So that's so interesting.

474
00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:30,140
And thank you for sharing that portion as well.

475
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:33,340
So taking that idea of change, I know

476
00:20:33,340 --> 00:20:35,700
you've mentioned a little bit about your own struggles

477
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:38,620
with perfectionism and your own.

478
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:43,580
You're able to award people that understanding or care

479
00:20:43,580 --> 00:20:46,460
when you weren't able to offer that to yourself.

480
00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:50,580
So when it comes to you making the decision to go to rehab,

481
00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:53,300
could you talk a little bit about what that decision was

482
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,220
like for you as an individual?

483
00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:57,300
Yeah.

484
00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:58,460
So I have to go.

485
00:20:58,460 --> 00:21:01,260
We're going in the way back machine, right?

486
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,060
I'm 64 now.

487
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:05,340
And I was 30 when I went to rehab.

488
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:06,300
I went a couple of times.

489
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,020
But I was 30 when I went.

490
00:21:08,020 --> 00:21:10,060
And it was just, again, obvious that things

491
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:13,660
had to change in my life experience.

492
00:21:13,660 --> 00:21:16,700
I had kind of gone.

493
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,180
I don't really even need to go through the whole story

494
00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:22,140
because everybody kind of has a sense of what that looks like.

495
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:24,180
But the bottom line is that I wound up in a place

496
00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:26,740
where I decided that I needed to make a change.

497
00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:29,900
And Ranger, I felt really, really fortunate,

498
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:31,860
particularly after working in the field

499
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:35,100
and seeing how so many of the rehab centers worked

500
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:37,380
and so many of the things that I brought.

501
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:40,420
Because I went to a place that really focused on behavior.

502
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:44,660
There was less focus on, for me, alcohol at that point

503
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:46,100
was kind of the issue.

504
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:48,340
And there was less emphasis on that.

505
00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:49,820
And there was so much more emphasis

506
00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:54,380
on the behavior and the lessons and understanding

507
00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:57,540
about perfectionism and understanding about isolation

508
00:21:57,540 --> 00:21:59,620
and understanding about imposter syndrome

509
00:21:59,620 --> 00:22:05,260
and how trying to escape those things is,

510
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:06,740
it was the coping skill that I had

511
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:09,620
learned to be able to do that.

512
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:12,420
When I was, I moved a whole bunch as a kid.

513
00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:15,180
And I was always restarting.

514
00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:18,780
And so about the time I was 15, I found alcohol.

515
00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:23,220
And that helped me really reduce my anxiety as I went through.

516
00:22:23,220 --> 00:22:25,500
So by the time I was 30, I went there.

517
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,340
But that was such an eye-opening experience for me

518
00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:30,460
that that's when I said, listen, I

519
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:33,060
want to find a way to give back.

520
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:35,420
And that's why I went back to school

521
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:37,460
and went back to be a therapist.

522
00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:41,100
It's interesting now, kind of going full circle to coaching

523
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:43,420
and how tight coaching.

524
00:22:43,420 --> 00:22:44,500
They're very different.

525
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,420
Coaching and therapy are very different.

526
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:49,860
But at the same time, a lot of the skills are very common.

527
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:51,900
And it's interesting.

528
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:55,140
We both are working through our own process

529
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:57,460
with our coaching practices.

530
00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:00,780
And one of the certificates that I have

531
00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:03,140
is one that's specifically designed for people who

532
00:23:03,140 --> 00:23:06,100
have a mental health background and have gone

533
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:07,380
through the coaching process.

534
00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:10,900
So I find a way to integrate that into my practice.

535
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:12,780
And it kind of comes through.

536
00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:14,380
But it's also, I mean, if you think

537
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:17,500
about this whole continuum of maybe therapy

538
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,700
is part of the continuum and coaching

539
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:23,900
is another part of the continuum and consulting is part

540
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,780
and mentoring all these different elements.

541
00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:30,900
I mean, it's like this big, long sliding scale.

542
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:33,980
It's not black and white.

543
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:35,620
You're not a coach or a therapist, right?

544
00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:38,020
You're not a consultant or a coach.

545
00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:41,420
There is a process that runs all along in a common thread.

546
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:45,580
And the common thread is the kind of questions

547
00:23:45,580 --> 00:23:46,780
that we ask, right?

548
00:23:46,780 --> 00:23:48,980
High-gain questions to get information.

549
00:23:48,980 --> 00:23:51,580
All those different roles have the same thing.

550
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:54,380
The part that changes and varies is kind of like,

551
00:23:54,380 --> 00:23:55,900
who's in charge, right?

552
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:57,440
I mean, if you're a therapist, you're

553
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,540
an authority position and a coach,

554
00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:02,140
we kind of come to it as peers, right?

555
00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:06,420
Pretty much we're co-creating solutions with them.

556
00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:08,980
And I think that one of the things I've really

557
00:24:08,980 --> 00:24:12,740
had to learn was as a coach is that it involves

558
00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:16,700
making this major transition from being a problem solver

559
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:18,540
to being a supporting resource.

560
00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:21,420
As a consultant in the kind of the business phase of my life,

561
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:23,220
I was a problem solver.

562
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:25,100
And now as a coach, you're kind of more

563
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:26,060
of a supporting resource.

564
00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:30,300
I feel like I'm going all over the place.

565
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:31,060
I hope we're even.

566
00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:31,580
No, no, no.

567
00:24:31,580 --> 00:24:34,140
I feel like that's another interesting thing.

568
00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:35,620
And again, it's like these things

569
00:24:35,620 --> 00:24:37,700
are becoming more solidified.

570
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:42,820
It sounds like a really big thing is when you're in the weeds,

571
00:24:42,820 --> 00:24:44,500
that's all you can see.

572
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:49,300
You just see this mess and tangle and this confusion.

573
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,420
And it isn't until you're on the other side of it

574
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:53,100
that you can kind of look back and realize

575
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:57,220
that all of those weeds, that thistle, the things that,

576
00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:59,380
when you were kind of stuck in the thick of it,

577
00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:02,020
that that makes up this whole beautiful landscape

578
00:25:02,020 --> 00:25:06,820
that you're able to then take and use to help others

579
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:09,460
or get through the rest of your own journey

580
00:25:09,460 --> 00:25:12,580
to the point that you're not really in that, oh, gosh,

581
00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:14,780
what did you say, the chrysalis of that situation.

582
00:25:14,780 --> 00:25:18,340
You're out of that messy middle part.

583
00:25:18,340 --> 00:25:20,700
You're kind of next to the peak or whatever

584
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,420
you want to call it, that final part

585
00:25:23,420 --> 00:25:25,940
of that piece of the puzzle.

586
00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:28,180
Yeah, or even just starting again.

587
00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:29,780
I mean, you're just kind of starting again.

588
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:30,620
That's the thing.

589
00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:32,980
You're getting through the phase.

590
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:35,660
And again, the reality, looking back,

591
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:40,300
the reality is that I didn't,

592
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,060
a lot of times I didn't even realize

593
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:46,460
that I was learning stuff until I had time

594
00:25:46,460 --> 00:25:48,100
to go back and look at it.

595
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:49,180
I mentioned my mother before.

596
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:50,660
That's been the real catalyst.

597
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:53,660
I lost, so my parents divorced when I was very young

598
00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:54,540
and they both remarried.

599
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:56,260
So I lost my mother, my stepmother,

600
00:25:56,260 --> 00:25:58,060
and my father in a 100-day window.

601
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:59,540
That was devastating.

602
00:26:00,980 --> 00:26:03,260
But it took me, it's the best worst thing

603
00:26:03,260 --> 00:26:04,700
that ever happened.

604
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:07,660
It took me into this great journey of exploration

605
00:26:07,660 --> 00:26:09,780
that I've been in in the last 15 months

606
00:26:09,780 --> 00:26:11,460
where I can go back and I can look

607
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:13,020
and I can see all these threads.

608
00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:16,200
I can see the threads that tie all the different elements

609
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,620
of my life together.

610
00:26:17,620 --> 00:26:21,740
And I can see the consistent part that ran through.

611
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:25,140
I can see how the benefits of going to 10 schools

612
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:28,540
before the 10th grade resulted in what I did

613
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:32,300
in my business life and what made me effective.

614
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:37,300
I can see that there were things that I learned as a,

615
00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:41,460
there were things that I learned as a trainer

616
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:43,740
and in my kind of first sales role

617
00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:47,500
that made me more effective as a therapist, as a counselor,

618
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,180
made me more effective working at the jail.

619
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:52,900
Working with businesses made me more effective

620
00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:54,100
at working at the jail.

621
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:55,820
And coming out of working at the jail

622
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:57,900
made me more effective in my next phase.

623
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,020
In fact, when I left the jail

624
00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:02,700
and was looking for like a real job,

625
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:05,080
I was gonna go work for a training company.

626
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,480
And this was back in the day

627
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,380
when there were one ads in the newspaper.

628
00:27:08,380 --> 00:27:10,540
And I went, you know, I responded to this one ads

629
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:12,940
and a guy, my resume, I responded, I came in

630
00:27:12,940 --> 00:27:15,180
and the first thing he did was sit down and say,

631
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:17,480
you know, what the heck is the fact

632
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,220
that you've been working at the jail

633
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,360
for the last three years gonna do for me and my customers?

634
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,060
And I told him, you know,

635
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:26,180
I explained to him exactly what I had learned

636
00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:28,940
and exactly how I was gonna be able to benefit,

637
00:27:28,940 --> 00:27:30,860
you know, benefit his customers moving forward.

638
00:27:30,860 --> 00:27:32,460
And he said, you know,

639
00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:34,100
I'm an organizational psychologist

640
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,780
and that's exactly the right answer.

641
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:37,740
You know, and then I went on

642
00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:39,580
and worked with them for a few years

643
00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:41,980
and learned even more there.

644
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:44,680
And then the lessons that I took in that job

645
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,020
where I went all over the country, you know,

646
00:27:47,020 --> 00:27:48,660
wound up helping me when I worked

647
00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:51,920
and moved into the next phase of my career.

648
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,340
Yeah, I think that's such an interesting like reminder

649
00:27:55,340 --> 00:27:59,260
that yeah, everything that we do is another resource

650
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:01,500
for us to use in the future.

651
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:05,380
Like nothing is wasted as long as you're willing

652
00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:08,860
to use those tools and make that conscious decision

653
00:28:08,860 --> 00:28:12,460
and effort to create something out of it.

654
00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:13,380
Right.

655
00:28:13,380 --> 00:28:15,300
And you have to squeeze the juice out of it.

656
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,140
You squeeze the juice,

657
00:28:17,140 --> 00:28:19,380
you squeeze the juice out of walking across the country.

658
00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:20,200
Yeah.

659
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,060
And squeezing that as much as I can.

660
00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:25,620
And you're gonna know more in 10 years

661
00:28:25,620 --> 00:28:28,340
about the impact that it had on your life than you do today.

662
00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:30,060
I guarantee you that, I promise you that.

663
00:28:30,060 --> 00:28:30,900
Exactly.

664
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:32,420
And I'm hoping that I learned the impact

665
00:28:32,420 --> 00:28:33,820
that it had on others as well

666
00:28:33,820 --> 00:28:35,300
or how that kind of influence

667
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:40,300
or changed like the overall living and situation

668
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:43,040
that myself or those around me are also.

669
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,840
And I think that you're in such a unique point

670
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,940
that you kind of have that,

671
00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:50,380
like I feel like I'm very much in that like planning

672
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:54,180
seeds phase, that planning seeds phase.

673
00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:55,820
And it sounds like you're kind of able to see

674
00:28:55,820 --> 00:28:59,380
how that harvest affected three harvests ago, you know?

675
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:01,820
Yeah.

676
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:03,300
But it takes work, right?

677
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:04,660
I mean, it takes work.

678
00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:07,620
If you look, one of the greatest things I've learned

679
00:29:07,620 --> 00:29:12,620
in the last year is going with all the stuff that happened,

680
00:29:12,620 --> 00:29:17,620
moving away from a life of sobriety basically,

681
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:23,860
and all the things I've gone through.

682
00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:25,740
I've come full circle back to understand

683
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:27,900
and to really integrate at a deep level

684
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:31,980
what those lessons, those lessons of recovery,

685
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,780
those lessons, if you wanna talk about 12 steps or whatever,

686
00:29:34,780 --> 00:29:39,260
but those lessons, they resonate in a very different way

687
00:29:39,260 --> 00:29:40,780
in my life now.

688
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:42,700
And when I was going through them

689
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:46,220
and I was talking to people about the fact that,

690
00:29:46,220 --> 00:29:48,020
you know what, you get back up and you move again,

691
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:49,660
you make the mistake and you move again.

692
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:52,340
Well, what really was going on was,

693
00:29:52,340 --> 00:29:56,060
but I'm better than that, right?

694
00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:58,020
You, but I'm better than that.

695
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:59,260
And it was really because I wasn't,

696
00:29:59,260 --> 00:30:01,580
it was really because I was scared to death.

697
00:30:01,580 --> 00:30:04,220
As I go back and I kind of do daily readings now,

698
00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:07,260
and Arringer, I've gotta tell you, in the last year,

699
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:12,260
I spend more time with recovery literature

700
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:14,660
than I ever did, right?

701
00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:16,900
And I was like the guy,

702
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,300
I don't know if you've ever been in a 12 step meeting or not,

703
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:20,660
but there's a lot of times,

704
00:30:20,660 --> 00:30:22,420
there's a book in the 12 step meetings

705
00:30:22,420 --> 00:30:23,940
and there can be somebody who can say,

706
00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:25,780
okay, this is what they meant.

707
00:30:25,780 --> 00:30:27,620
This is what they meant when they said Keystone

708
00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:29,540
and this is what they meant when they said Cornerstone.

709
00:30:29,540 --> 00:30:31,420
And I was that guy, I was like the expert,

710
00:30:31,420 --> 00:30:34,580
but I was also the guy that couldn't stay sober, right?

711
00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:36,660
And now what I'm really understanding is

712
00:30:36,660 --> 00:30:37,740
what that whole thing is about

713
00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:39,700
is you do the best you can today

714
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:41,620
and then you do the best you can tomorrow.

715
00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:42,900
And if you screw up, you screw up.

716
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:47,260
You do the best you can and you get on with your life.

717
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:49,220
And you just, it's all about today.

718
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:52,260
It's all about living today and not about,

719
00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:55,060
the challenge I had was that I was surrounded by people

720
00:30:55,060 --> 00:30:58,380
that had been sober for 20 years and 30 years, right?

721
00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:03,380
And they often wore that as a badge, right?

722
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:08,380
And so it affected me and how I dealt with my own situation.

723
00:31:08,380 --> 00:31:10,500
And now I understand, it's like, you know what?

724
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:15,500
Today, I'm probably not gonna have a drink, right?

725
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,740
Tomorrow I make a new decision and that's okay.

726
00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:19,900
And the field of mental health has progressed

727
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:21,180
in that way too.

728
00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:24,340
The field of mental health is acknowledging the fact that

729
00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:27,900
total abstinence, about 10% people are successful

730
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:29,500
in maintaining total abstinence

731
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:30,900
for an extended period of time.

732
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:32,900
And they consider that to be a good thing

733
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:34,580
and they consider an extended period of time

734
00:31:34,580 --> 00:31:37,460
to be a year, 18 months, right?

735
00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:41,300
And what they're learning about is the value

736
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:42,660
of harm reduction.

737
00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:44,260
And harm reduction is about learning

738
00:31:44,260 --> 00:31:45,740
that things aren't black and white,

739
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:47,860
learning that there's a shade of gray, right?

740
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:51,420
Learning that there are different levels all along the way.

741
00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:56,420
So that's true kind of, that's kind of true consistently

742
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:58,180
throughout life, right?

743
00:31:58,180 --> 00:32:00,620
Is learning, that's freedom from perfectionism.

744
00:32:00,620 --> 00:32:03,220
That's freedom from imposter syndrome.

745
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:06,860
That's all learning that it's not, I'm good and I'm bad,

746
00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:09,620
you know, or I'm full of shame or I can never give up

747
00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:12,860
or I can never get where I wanna go or I'm frustrated.

748
00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:14,020
That's all black and white.

749
00:32:14,020 --> 00:32:15,980
And freedom from perfectionism is like,

750
00:32:15,980 --> 00:32:17,780
I'm doing the best I can today.

751
00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:19,420
Tomorrow, hopefully I'll do better.

752
00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:22,020
Maybe I won't, you know, maybe I'll have to step back

753
00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:24,620
and take a breath, you know?

754
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:26,260
So again, I feel like I'm rambling, sorry.

755
00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:29,740
No, no, no, no, I feel like that is such a beautiful way

756
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:31,580
to kind of like sum that up is that it's,

757
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:33,700
it really sounds like what you were saying last

758
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:37,260
is that it's not like the walk across the country,

759
00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:39,540
that it's this huge lofty goal

760
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:40,860
where there's a lot of moving pieces

761
00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:43,460
and it's very easy to get bogged down in all the details

762
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:45,460
to the point that you're kind of paralyzed

763
00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:48,180
to even wanna start, which sounds like that would be

764
00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:51,700
a good parallel for a sobriety journey

765
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,900
or just making that decision go to rehab or changing jobs.

766
00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,660
Like you're, all these different big life changes

767
00:32:57,660 --> 00:33:01,620
kind of, I don't know, it's very parallel

768
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:03,700
to that six month journey that I had.

769
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:06,420
But it sounds like what you're really saying is that,

770
00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:08,340
and I'm curious your take on this,

771
00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:14,420
it's great to have that overall huge, great, beautiful goal,

772
00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:18,540
that West Coast that you wanna get to,

773
00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:20,620
but it's really about every day making the decision

774
00:33:20,620 --> 00:33:25,140
to take a step towards that destination.

775
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:27,940
And sometimes taking a step forward

776
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:29,780
might be staying where you are

777
00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:32,860
or having to take a few steps backwards for rest

778
00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:34,900
or for these different,

779
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,380
these pieces that may not feel like progress in the moment,

780
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:41,260
but when you step back at it when you're at the end,

781
00:33:41,260 --> 00:33:45,180
that was exactly what you needed in order to move forward.

782
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:48,260
Yeah, so it's all about acceptance, right?

783
00:33:48,260 --> 00:33:52,180
So continuing to kind of move forward in my journey

784
00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:55,820
and managing the same part of the story,

785
00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:57,460
just before I was,

786
00:33:57,460 --> 00:34:00,540
so I spent like eight years working on the road, right?

787
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:03,500
And not living a healthy lifestyle.

788
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:08,020
And I kind of got to the point where I was looking

789
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:09,340
at trying to change my life.

790
00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:12,300
And my kind of throwaway comment is that

791
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:14,980
there are two kinds of people that are in hotels long-term.

792
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:16,540
One hangs out in the hotel bar

793
00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:18,820
and the other hangs out at the hotel gym, right?

794
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:21,140
And I lived in one long enough

795
00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:24,140
that it was time for me to try to move into the other one.

796
00:34:24,140 --> 00:34:27,300
And I discovered first walking and kind of taking care of myself

797
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:28,540
and then I discovered running.

798
00:34:28,540 --> 00:34:36,540
And then after I had my DWI that was so changing for me,

799
00:34:36,540 --> 00:34:38,860
I really tried to change my life.

800
00:34:38,860 --> 00:34:41,020
And one of the ways that I did that was through running.

801
00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:43,340
And so now I'm kind of in my mid-40s

802
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:46,860
and I'm starting this journey of learning to run half marathons

803
00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:49,060
and ultimately run marathons.

804
00:34:49,060 --> 00:34:52,700
And I did triathlons and I've done a couple of hundred events

805
00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:56,500
and blah, blah, blah, okay, we can talk about all that.

806
00:34:56,500 --> 00:35:00,100
But what I've learned over time as I've gone through

807
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:03,460
is that I have to accept the reality of today, right?

808
00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:09,660
I can't look back at even 45-year-old Mark

809
00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:11,060
who starts late, right?

810
00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:13,580
And was never an athlete and never anything like that.

811
00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:15,460
And when I started the journey,

812
00:35:15,460 --> 00:35:17,780
I was like 40 pounds heavier than I am now.

813
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:19,740
And all that.

814
00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:21,500
But I can't go back and say, gosh,

815
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,460
I could still be faster then, right?

816
00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:28,700
The whole thing is, it's like I call it the ABCs of moving forward, right?

817
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:31,460
So you have to be able to accept the current reality.

818
00:35:31,460 --> 00:35:34,980
You can't go back and say, gosh, I wish it was different

819
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:37,380
or I wish it would be different moving forward.

820
00:35:37,380 --> 00:35:39,900
You have to accept the reality of where you are today.

821
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:41,740
And then you have to build a foundation,

822
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:46,380
the B is build a foundation based on basic practices.

823
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:48,860
So if you're a senior athlete,

824
00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:53,140
that means you've got to take time to do stuff like resting

825
00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:57,300
and recovering and stretching and mobility and strength training

826
00:35:57,300 --> 00:36:00,580
and all this stuff that earlier in your life,

827
00:36:00,580 --> 00:36:02,100
you go, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

828
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,420
And it takes away from the time I have on the road.

829
00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:08,100
And then the third part, the C is about consistency.

830
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,220
So consistency, getting out there, doing it every day

831
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:15,060
or consistently in whatever that means for your new training plan

832
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:18,860
beats volume, it beats just trying to do a whole bunch of stuff

833
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:21,540
and it beats intensity, trying to do it super fast.

834
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:22,860
It beats it every time.

835
00:36:22,860 --> 00:36:26,340
And so, when we broke, you were talking about your goal

836
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:29,780
of trying to run an X number of miles this year

837
00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:32,220
and saying how it could be overwhelming.

838
00:36:32,220 --> 00:36:34,100
Well, it's overwhelming if you look at all of it.

839
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,580
But if you look at accept where you are today,

840
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:39,740
if you focus on the basic practices

841
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:41,860
that you need to go from point A to point B

842
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:44,060
and you deliver, just do it consistently.

843
00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:45,980
You don't try to do it in big, giant gulps.

844
00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:47,540
You try to do it consistently.

845
00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:49,340
You're going to get where you are.

846
00:36:49,340 --> 00:36:52,260
And I'm sure the same thing happened on your walk.

847
00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:55,740
I mean, you had to be able to stay

848
00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:57,540
focused on the most important things.

849
00:36:57,540 --> 00:37:00,140
It's not like you could go do 100 miles today.

850
00:37:00,140 --> 00:37:01,980
Yeah.

851
00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:03,020
Yeah, no, definitely not.

852
00:37:03,020 --> 00:37:06,740
To make up for the, you know, yesterday I only walked 17.

853
00:37:06,740 --> 00:37:08,740
So today I have to walk 60.

854
00:37:08,740 --> 00:37:09,660
You can't work that way.

855
00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:11,060
You've got to be consistent.

856
00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:11,900
Yeah.

857
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,660
And I think that's a really important piece

858
00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:18,820
that I've seen a lot of others kind of bring up,

859
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:22,740
kind of comparing themselves to me and the walk.

860
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:25,140
Something I heard pretty consistently during that journey

861
00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:27,900
was I wish I could do something like that,

862
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,700
but insert all the different reasons.

863
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:35,340
Right, and a lot of them were around race or gender,

864
00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:38,220
socioeconomic status, and all these different things.

865
00:37:38,220 --> 00:37:41,300
And it's interesting because I had all those same thoughts

866
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:43,940
when I saw that Mike Posner had walked,

867
00:37:43,940 --> 00:37:47,140
that I compared myself to him and the different tools

868
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:49,460
that he had that made him different from me

869
00:37:49,460 --> 00:37:50,780
to be able to do it.

870
00:37:50,780 --> 00:37:52,580
And I think that's always such an interesting thing

871
00:37:52,580 --> 00:37:55,260
in that it's, and it's what you brought up too

872
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,020
with senior athletes, that there's just different

873
00:37:57,020 --> 00:38:01,140
considerations that you need to be wary of

874
00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:02,580
because it's your journey.

875
00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:03,420
Right.

876
00:38:03,420 --> 00:38:05,980
Right, like this is what you need.

877
00:38:05,980 --> 00:38:09,420
Like for running and for the walk, in my opinion,

878
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:12,540
the most important thing is your body, your feet,

879
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:15,180
your legs, how you are feeling.

880
00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:17,100
If you're pushing yourself and you're forcing yourself

881
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:22,100
to walk 30 miles on a sore leg or an injured foot

882
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:24,020
or blisters or all these different things,

883
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:25,900
it's not gonna go well.

884
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:29,220
Just like if you twist your ankle on Monday,

885
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:32,380
maybe it's not a best idea to run Tuesday

886
00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:34,540
or Wednesday or Thursday because you're just going

887
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:37,260
to exacerbate and make that injury worse.

888
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:38,100
And then you just really-

889
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:39,540
You are absolutely right.

890
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:41,020
What is it, you're cutting yourself off at your feet,

891
00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:43,180
like almost literally,

892
00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:45,620
because you're doing the most important thing.

893
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:48,340
Whereas if you forget your water bottle or your phone

894
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:50,780
or an earbud dies, like that's not as important

895
00:38:50,780 --> 00:38:55,460
as the most important thing, which is you and your body.

896
00:38:55,460 --> 00:38:56,860
Taking care of you and learning that.

897
00:38:56,860 --> 00:38:58,020
I mean, learning how to take,

898
00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:00,620
that's probably the biggest lesson out of my athletic

899
00:39:00,620 --> 00:39:03,420
journey was learning how to be present.

900
00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:05,020
Ranger, it's so funny because like,

901
00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:06,820
I've talked about this a bunch of times that,

902
00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:09,380
you know, with other people and it's like this really

903
00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:12,740
weird paradox that, you know, like I said before,

904
00:39:12,740 --> 00:39:14,300
I moved a whole bunch.

905
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:17,700
As I go back and look retrospectively in the period

906
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:22,700
from like 1992 to, or the 15 year period ending in 2007,

907
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:26,420
so back it up to, yeah, to 1992,

908
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:29,540
I had 20 different jobs.

909
00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:30,380
Wow.

910
00:39:30,380 --> 00:39:32,100
Like I had 20 different jobs, okay.

911
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,660
And part of that was I went through the career change.

912
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:37,500
Part of that is, you know, from mental health back to business.

913
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,140
Part of that is that when I worked in mental health,

914
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:42,580
I worked at five different places at the same time.

915
00:39:42,580 --> 00:39:44,700
And, you know, there was a lot of that kind of stuff

916
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:46,140
that's built into that number.

917
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:48,140
But the reality is I was constantly moving.

918
00:39:48,140 --> 00:39:49,820
I was constantly frustrated.

919
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:50,860
I was changing.

920
00:39:50,860 --> 00:39:52,980
Something would happen that I didn't like and I'd say,

921
00:39:52,980 --> 00:39:54,580
screw you, I'm gone, you know,

922
00:39:54,580 --> 00:39:56,100
and all that kind of stuff happened.

923
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:59,900
And then as I evolved, as I kind of went through,

924
00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:02,820
you know, the challenges of 2005,

925
00:40:02,820 --> 00:40:06,460
I began to discover running, I began to move forward.

926
00:40:06,460 --> 00:40:08,460
The last 15 years of my career,

927
00:40:08,460 --> 00:40:13,300
so from 2007 to 2022, I was at one job.

928
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:14,460
Oh, wow.

929
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:16,260
So that's such a major difference.

930
00:40:16,260 --> 00:40:20,300
And the difference is about tuning into who I was.

931
00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:21,940
Movement, right?

932
00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:26,380
When I was scattered, my movement was different, right?

933
00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:29,100
When I was scattered, my movement was all about

934
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:30,380
going from here to there to there

935
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:32,380
and never really having any stability.

936
00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:34,900
When I found endurance training,

937
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:37,660
then movement became purposeful.

938
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,580
And when movement became purposeful,

939
00:40:40,580 --> 00:40:42,660
it allowed me to stabilize my life.

940
00:40:44,820 --> 00:40:48,460
So, you know, I grew and then I saw the changes

941
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:50,780
that happened in my work performance,

942
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:53,220
you know, as I got more deeper involved

943
00:40:53,220 --> 00:40:54,500
in endurance training.

944
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,980
The year that I did an Ironman Triathlon,

945
00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:59,820
I was in, that 2007 to 22,

946
00:40:59,820 --> 00:41:01,860
I was in the sales role that whole time.

947
00:41:01,860 --> 00:41:04,180
And the year that I did the triathlon

948
00:41:04,180 --> 00:41:05,940
until the very last year of my career

949
00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:08,620
was the high point of my sales.

950
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:11,620
So I'm training full time for an Ironman Triathlon

951
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:12,900
on the road.

952
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:15,660
And it was also the peak year of selling.

953
00:41:15,660 --> 00:41:18,780
And it's because I was learning how to package my life

954
00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:20,700
in a really different way.

955
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:23,180
Have you ever heard of 75 Hard,

956
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:25,900
the program by Andy Frisella at First Form?

957
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:26,820
I don't know it.

958
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:28,500
I've heard of it, but I don't know it.

959
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:30,980
I, the big thing with that is that, you know,

960
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:32,260
you have to work out twice a day

961
00:41:32,260 --> 00:41:34,540
and drink a certain amount of water and no alcohol.

962
00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:38,140
And like, it's like a very, it adds a lot to your day.

963
00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:39,940
But I've noticed when I am on program

964
00:41:39,940 --> 00:41:43,460
and I have that structure, I get so much more done.

965
00:41:43,460 --> 00:41:46,220
And I think that that really, what you're saying,

966
00:41:46,220 --> 00:41:48,980
it like, it helps you package your day, your time

967
00:41:48,980 --> 00:41:52,740
and really makes you focus on what is the like highest

968
00:41:52,740 --> 00:41:55,620
leverage, most important thing to do that day.

969
00:41:55,620 --> 00:41:57,700
Like you're not really, you don't have time to screw around

970
00:41:57,700 --> 00:41:59,980
because you have to focus on what is most important.

971
00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:01,260
What I found interesting about what you're saying

972
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:03,780
is that by having movement in your life,

973
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:07,540
by training, by running, being able to move around

974
00:42:07,540 --> 00:42:10,660
is what helps you feel grounded in who you are

975
00:42:10,660 --> 00:42:13,260
and your own personal identity.

976
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:14,100
Yeah.

977
00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:17,260
Yeah, I mean, that's very true.

978
00:42:17,260 --> 00:42:18,140
That's very true.

979
00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:21,780
You know, the other part, like when I moved,

980
00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:25,300
I moved forward, you know, from just running marathons

981
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:26,980
to kind of moving into triathlon,

982
00:42:26,980 --> 00:42:28,820
into long distance triathlon.

983
00:42:28,820 --> 00:42:32,340
And there you really have to learn how to,

984
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:35,140
you really have to learn how to understand big picture

985
00:42:35,140 --> 00:42:38,180
and be 100% focused on where you are, right?

986
00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:42,140
So, you know, if you're swimming, if you're an old coot

987
00:42:42,140 --> 00:42:44,100
and you're swimming with all the other old coots

988
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:47,060
in the back of the pack and it's a giant washing machine

989
00:42:47,060 --> 00:42:51,060
and you're in a lake, there's no slides, you know,

990
00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:54,420
you have to be 100% focused on the next stroke

991
00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:56,460
and the next guy and the next piece.

992
00:42:56,460 --> 00:42:59,060
You know, we have to be 100% present there.

993
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:01,500
When you get out and then you jump on a bike

994
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:05,020
and now you're gonna go ride 112 miles on your bike,

995
00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:08,300
you have to be 100% focused on every stroke,

996
00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:10,660
you know, every pedal stroke as you go through.

997
00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:13,660
At the same time, you have to be planning ahead, right?

998
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:18,100
You have to be feeding yourself during the ride

999
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:19,540
so you have energy,

1000
00:43:19,540 --> 00:43:22,780
because now you're gonna go run a marathon, right?

1001
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:25,540
And so, and then you get on, you run your marathon

1002
00:43:25,540 --> 00:43:28,260
and you have to let go of everything that you've done

1003
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,820
in that day and be 100% focused and present.

1004
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:34,340
And I mean, I think that translated directly into work

1005
00:43:34,340 --> 00:43:35,460
because it was the same thing.

1006
00:43:35,460 --> 00:43:37,180
You've gotta let go, like as a sales guy,

1007
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:39,500
you've gotta let go of the no, right?

1008
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,460
You can't be stuck on the no.

1009
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:45,140
You've gotta be focused on, you know, right now,

1010
00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:47,420
what can I do today to move me forward, right?

1011
00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:49,460
And that even comes back to the ABCs, right?

1012
00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:52,020
It comes back to you accept the reality,

1013
00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:54,180
stuff changed after COVID.

1014
00:43:54,180 --> 00:43:56,900
You have to accept the reality that the sales world changed

1015
00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:59,340
after COVID, people didn't travel anymore, right?

1016
00:43:59,340 --> 00:44:01,500
You have to go back to the basic practices

1017
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:03,900
and be focused on how you, you know,

1018
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:07,140
making phone calls and connecting in a new way

1019
00:44:07,140 --> 00:44:09,220
and making sure you reach out to people

1020
00:44:09,220 --> 00:44:10,380
and just stay present with people

1021
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:11,820
and you have to be consistent, right?

1022
00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:14,580
You have to do whatever your goals are

1023
00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:17,740
and whatever your milestones are consistently

1024
00:44:17,740 --> 00:44:19,660
as you go on through the process.

1025
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:21,060
So it all ties together.

1026
00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:25,020
And I think that's why, you know, that's why my life

1027
00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:28,540
and I hear you say your life changed based on doing these,

1028
00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:30,900
you know, kind of crazy endurance events.

1029
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:33,700
I like how you say it and it's actually kind of one

1030
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:35,580
of my first taglines was ordinary people

1031
00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:37,740
doing extraordinary results, right?

1032
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:39,300
Achieving extraordinary results.

1033
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:41,420
I mean, that's something that I believe in

1034
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:42,460
because I'm a normal guy.

1035
00:44:42,460 --> 00:44:46,660
I mean, and I've done some kind of amazing things

1036
00:44:46,660 --> 00:44:48,260
in my world as you have.

1037
00:44:48,260 --> 00:44:51,180
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's something that I,

1038
00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:55,140
a message that I really want to kind of push or promote

1039
00:44:55,140 --> 00:45:00,140
and just kind of make people realize is that a big thing

1040
00:45:00,260 --> 00:45:03,220
that I talk about with my walk and how I got the idea

1041
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:06,580
for it was I saw, I saw that Mike Posner did it

1042
00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:08,300
and I kind of put him on this pedestal.

1043
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:10,180
I was like, man, that's an extraordinary guy.

1044
00:45:10,180 --> 00:45:11,620
Like he was able to do all these amazing things

1045
00:45:11,620 --> 00:45:13,220
with his music and career.

1046
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:14,980
And now he's walking across the country,

1047
00:45:14,980 --> 00:45:17,780
but I'm just a normal guy from California.

1048
00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:19,580
And then I saw that Andrew Kivett did it.

1049
00:45:19,580 --> 00:45:21,700
And I'm like, he kind of just looks like a normal dude

1050
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:23,020
from Kansas.

1051
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:26,820
And then Mark Dudek, like that's just a normal guy

1052
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:28,100
from Ohio.

1053
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:29,980
And then going back to Posner being like,

1054
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:32,660
he's just a normal guy from Michigan.

1055
00:45:32,660 --> 00:45:34,540
I'm just a normal guy from California.

1056
00:45:34,540 --> 00:45:38,140
Like there's a trend here that they just made the decision

1057
00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:39,820
to take that next step.

1058
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:41,420
And I think that that's something that I saw

1059
00:45:41,420 --> 00:45:43,620
across the country in all the other interviews that I did.

1060
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:47,300
Even now, just talking to people on the Never Peak projects

1061
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:49,740
is that there's so many normal people out there.

1062
00:45:49,740 --> 00:45:54,580
And I wish that people realized that they have everything

1063
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:59,140
they need in order to create those extraordinary results

1064
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:01,700
for themselves or those around them.

1065
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:04,580
And it sounds like that's what you are doing every day

1066
00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:05,940
in your life, that it's not just,

1067
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:09,020
and I guess to connect what you're doing

1068
00:46:09,020 --> 00:46:11,460
to the overall purpose of the Never Peak project,

1069
00:46:11,460 --> 00:46:15,940
which is to promote the idea that the best is yet to come.

1070
00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:18,980
What is it, and this is a question I got from my newsletter

1071
00:46:18,980 --> 00:46:21,140
and on social media for you,

1072
00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:22,780
and from a few different people,

1073
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:25,500
I'm kind of packaging it up altogether,

1074
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:30,020
is what is driving you to do more?

1075
00:46:30,020 --> 00:46:32,340
Why not just do the regular, oh, you know,

1076
00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:35,340
I'm doing X, Y, and Z, 5Ks or 10Ks.

1077
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:39,660
Like, why are you doing these crazy Ironmans and triathlons

1078
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:41,780
and all these crazy things?

1079
00:46:41,780 --> 00:46:45,500
Like, what is it that's pushing you to continue to improve

1080
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:47,140
and look for the next big thing?

1081
00:46:48,420 --> 00:46:51,220
Yeah, that's such a really good question.

1082
00:46:51,220 --> 00:46:53,620
And I don't know if I have a really good answer for it.

1083
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:02,420
I was in this constant state of growth, right?

1084
00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:04,140
I was renewed.

1085
00:47:04,140 --> 00:47:09,140
And I found, I spent a lot of time quitting.

1086
00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:15,260
I spent a lot of time in my life quitting, right?

1087
00:47:15,260 --> 00:47:17,020
And, you know, I...

1088
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:21,340
So like, when I was, like, I'll go back and like,

1089
00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:24,260
when I was 14, you know, I went to military school

1090
00:47:24,260 --> 00:47:27,620
when I was 14 and everybody had to do athletic stuff, right?

1091
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:32,620
And I was, tried swimming and I swam like two laps

1092
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:35,140
and my heart rate spiked and I threw up.

1093
00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:37,380
And I'm not gonna do that.

1094
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:40,900
And I tried to run cross country and I went out too fast

1095
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:43,460
and my heart rate went up and I had an asthma attack

1096
00:47:43,460 --> 00:47:44,660
and I threw up.

1097
00:47:44,660 --> 00:47:46,100
And that's not for me.

1098
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:51,260
I was the manager of the basketball team, right?

1099
00:47:51,260 --> 00:47:53,820
I was the scorekeeper and the manager of the basketball.

1100
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:58,100
That was what they gave me to be athletic, right?

1101
00:47:58,100 --> 00:48:00,060
And then, you know, like I was always moving.

1102
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:01,540
I was kind of stable in high school.

1103
00:48:01,540 --> 00:48:03,580
I had different things that were going on,

1104
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:06,060
but I never really had an academic,

1105
00:48:06,060 --> 00:48:08,300
I never really had an athletic background.

1106
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:15,300
So, you know, I had a cousin that ran this 12K race, right?

1107
00:48:15,620 --> 00:48:18,060
Which is a real odd race, but I ran a 12K race.

1108
00:48:18,060 --> 00:48:19,900
And I was there when she finished and I said,

1109
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:21,820
next year I'm gonna do it with you.

1110
00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:24,300
And I was still on the road and I was really heavy

1111
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:27,100
and I was still kind of dealing with all of my stuff.

1112
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,420
And we did that.

1113
00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:31,260
And then we sat down at the end of it

1114
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:33,020
and we looked at each other and went, you know,

1115
00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:37,460
it's like another 5K, a little more, 6K, whatever, eight,

1116
00:48:37,460 --> 00:48:41,220
to be able to run a half marathon.

1117
00:48:41,220 --> 00:48:43,580
And so we went out and we ran a half marathon together

1118
00:48:43,580 --> 00:48:44,700
and we did a couple of those.

1119
00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:47,580
And then I just, I got to this place where I said,

1120
00:48:47,580 --> 00:48:49,460
I think I can do this.

1121
00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:51,340
And I tried it, you know, and I tried it

1122
00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:53,700
and I wasn't happy with my results.

1123
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:55,580
So I tried it again and I tried it again.

1124
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:57,940
And before you knew it, I was there.

1125
00:48:57,940 --> 00:49:00,740
And then I got to a place where I said, you know what?

1126
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:03,380
Now I'm 49, right?

1127
00:49:03,380 --> 00:49:05,060
And I don't know how to swim.

1128
00:49:05,060 --> 00:49:07,940
Cause when I was 14, I gave up.

1129
00:49:07,940 --> 00:49:08,780
I don't know how to swim.

1130
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,020
So I'm gonna learn how to swim before I'm 50.

1131
00:49:11,020 --> 00:49:12,580
And I went in there and I started swimming

1132
00:49:12,580 --> 00:49:14,820
and I started breathing and learning how to get through it.

1133
00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:16,420
And the first time I jumped in the pool,

1134
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:19,460
I did two lengths of the pool, you know,

1135
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:21,020
and was hanging out on the side.

1136
00:49:21,020 --> 00:49:22,020
And by the end of that year,

1137
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:24,060
I swam 1.2 miles in open water.

1138
00:49:24,060 --> 00:49:26,460
I did my first half Ironman.

1139
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:28,300
So I just found this new drive

1140
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:31,020
that I had never, never found before.

1141
00:49:31,020 --> 00:49:33,460
And it expanded my confidence in myself,

1142
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:36,140
my belief in myself, like you just talked about.

1143
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:37,060
You're an ordinary guy.

1144
00:49:37,060 --> 00:49:39,260
You went out and did this extraordinary thing.

1145
00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:41,980
And it's the same, it's exactly the same thing.

1146
00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:45,220
And so then it became such an integrated part of who I,

1147
00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:47,260
it became an integrated part of who I was.

1148
00:49:47,260 --> 00:49:49,460
I mean, I wasn't the party guy anymore.

1149
00:49:49,460 --> 00:49:50,900
I was the guy that was running.

1150
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:52,260
I'd go to a customer's office

1151
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:54,100
and the first question they would ask me would be,

1152
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:56,180
so what's your latest run?

1153
00:49:56,180 --> 00:49:57,660
You know, two years later,

1154
00:49:57,660 --> 00:49:59,500
if I get calls from my former customers,

1155
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:01,260
the first question is still running?

1156
00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:03,100
Because it became part of who I was

1157
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:04,580
and I learned how to integrate it, right?

1158
00:50:04,580 --> 00:50:07,300
So I learned how, if I was gonna do a presentation

1159
00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:08,780
on business development,

1160
00:50:08,780 --> 00:50:11,620
I would use my training plan for the Boston Marathon

1161
00:50:11,620 --> 00:50:14,860
as an example of how I was gonna do it.

1162
00:50:14,860 --> 00:50:17,300
So, you know, it was, it's just this drive

1163
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:19,460
to continue to get stronger and stronger,

1164
00:50:19,460 --> 00:50:24,140
to stretch my limits to a new way.

1165
00:50:24,140 --> 00:50:25,620
And then, you know, honestly,

1166
00:50:25,620 --> 00:50:27,540
what's the far end of that story?

1167
00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:28,620
I haven't done, I've done,

1168
00:50:28,620 --> 00:50:30,340
did like two short triathlons after,

1169
00:50:30,340 --> 00:50:31,980
I completed the Ironman.

1170
00:50:31,980 --> 00:50:33,420
I did it, the first time I tried

1171
00:50:33,420 --> 00:50:35,300
to complete an Ironman, I failed.

1172
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:36,860
And, you know, I gave up in the run.

1173
00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:38,940
I had problems with my system.

1174
00:50:38,940 --> 00:50:40,340
I sat at the airport with my wife.

1175
00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:41,180
She looked at me and said,

1176
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:42,740
you're doing this again, aren't you?

1177
00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:44,380
And I'm like, yeah, because I didn't finish this.

1178
00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:45,860
And two years, it took me two years

1179
00:50:45,860 --> 00:50:47,740
of really focused training and prep.

1180
00:50:47,740 --> 00:50:49,700
I went out, I accomplished it.

1181
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:51,900
And then that part of my life, for now,

1182
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:53,580
at least that part of my life has been over

1183
00:50:53,580 --> 00:50:54,860
for, you know, a few years.

1184
00:50:54,860 --> 00:50:56,420
But I'm still running, I'm still doing, you know,

1185
00:50:56,420 --> 00:51:01,420
in the last, you know, I did a marathon last year.

1186
00:51:01,420 --> 00:51:03,980
I did six halves in like 16 months.

1187
00:51:03,980 --> 00:51:08,980
And it just, it brings me alive and brings me joy

1188
00:51:08,980 --> 00:51:12,780
and helps me stay present and grounded.

1189
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:14,620
That's a long-winded answer, sorry.

1190
00:51:14,620 --> 00:51:18,020
No, I think that's a really great way to put it.

1191
00:51:18,020 --> 00:51:20,780
It's that it's, there's always something to strive for,

1192
00:51:20,780 --> 00:51:22,820
but it's always more so about that.

1193
00:51:22,820 --> 00:51:26,740
It's not just that external thing.

1194
00:51:26,740 --> 00:51:29,620
It's about what you're creating for yourself on the inside

1195
00:51:29,620 --> 00:51:31,460
and what you're creating for yourself

1196
00:51:31,460 --> 00:51:34,460
in order to use to create more for yourself.

1197
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:37,260
100%.

1198
00:51:38,140 --> 00:51:41,380
I couldn't do an Ironman for anybody else.

1199
00:51:41,380 --> 00:51:44,780
You couldn't walk across the country for anybody else.

1200
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:46,780
You had to be internally focused.

1201
00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:48,540
I had to be internally focused.

1202
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:52,380
I had to find my own reward for it.

1203
00:51:52,380 --> 00:51:57,140
I had to be validated by myself and not by the outside world.

1204
00:51:57,140 --> 00:51:59,980
That kind of work and consistency and commitment it takes

1205
00:51:59,980 --> 00:52:04,620
to do what you did, you can't do it for other people.

1206
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:07,260
You can only do it for yourself.

1207
00:52:07,260 --> 00:52:10,860
There's not an extrinsic reward, an outside reward,

1208
00:52:10,860 --> 00:52:14,220
only an intrinsic reward that can make it work.

1209
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:15,620
That's my belief.

1210
00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:17,060
I think that's a fantastic way

1211
00:52:17,060 --> 00:52:19,580
to kind of wrap up the conversation, honestly.

1212
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:22,500
That's a sound bite if I ever heard one.

1213
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:26,140
But Mark, thank you.

1214
00:52:26,140 --> 00:52:29,380
And for this conversation, a lot of the questions

1215
00:52:29,380 --> 00:52:30,940
and the way that I was kind of trying to structure

1216
00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:34,300
the conversation came from questions I received

1217
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,580
from my newsletter, The Peak.

1218
00:52:36,580 --> 00:52:38,500
If anybody's interested in joining the newsletter

1219
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:40,980
and would like to find ways to get more involved,

1220
00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:42,340
go and hit the link in the description

1221
00:52:42,340 --> 00:52:45,060
to sign up for the newsletter.

1222
00:52:45,060 --> 00:52:46,540
That is gonna be the best way to find out

1223
00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:49,620
about when our next podcast presenters are,

1224
00:52:49,620 --> 00:52:51,660
upcoming events and everything else,

1225
00:52:51,660 --> 00:52:54,020
walk and coaching related.

1226
00:52:54,020 --> 00:52:58,420
But Mark, is there anything that you want to

1227
00:52:58,420 --> 00:53:00,340
let our listeners know about best way to follow you

1228
00:53:00,340 --> 00:53:02,540
or anything that you have coming up?

1229
00:53:02,540 --> 00:53:05,740
Sure, the best way to connect to me is through LinkedIn.

1230
00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:08,180
And you can reach out through Mark Wiginton.

1231
00:53:08,180 --> 00:53:11,100
And will that be in the notes, the show notes as well?

1232
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:12,500
All of Mark's contact information,

1233
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:14,860
everything about him will be in the show notes,

1234
00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:16,620
website, LinkedIn, everything.

1235
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:20,140
Yeah, focusing on, my website is focusing on results.

1236
00:53:20,140 --> 00:53:22,540
And as you heard in the conversation,

1237
00:53:22,540 --> 00:53:24,180
that's what we kind of do is focus on

1238
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:26,540
where we're trying to go, what we're looking for.

1239
00:53:26,540 --> 00:53:28,860
I've really enjoyed my time with you today, Ranger.

1240
00:53:28,860 --> 00:53:31,180
Thank you so much for inviting me onto the call.

1241
00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:32,100
Of course, I thank you.

1242
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:36,020
I'm glad that my call for guests on LinkedIn

1243
00:53:36,020 --> 00:53:37,660
provided you so quickly.

1244
00:53:37,660 --> 00:53:39,780
I was worried that I'd get like a lot of like

1245
00:53:39,780 --> 00:53:41,300
random bot accounts or anything,

1246
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:44,500
but the first person was you and it was very quality.

1247
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:46,900
So thank you so much for your time

1248
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:48,300
and for sharing a little bit of your magic

1249
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:49,980
with our listeners.

1250
00:53:49,980 --> 00:53:51,060
Awesome, thanks.

1251
00:53:51,060 --> 00:53:52,820
Of course, and to everybody listening today,

1252
00:53:52,820 --> 00:53:55,060
thank you so much for your time and attention

1253
00:53:55,060 --> 00:53:57,700
and for really taking the time out of your day

1254
00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:00,380
to get a little bit better yourself.

1255
00:54:00,380 --> 00:54:02,300
The biggest message here at the NeverPeak project

1256
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:04,340
is that the best is yet to come.

1257
00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:06,540
So thank you for investing a little bit of time

1258
00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:10,780
into yourself to create another peak in your life.

1259
00:54:10,780 --> 00:54:13,580
If you'd like to stay updated on all things

1260
00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:15,740
within range coaching and the NeverPeak project,

1261
00:54:15,740 --> 00:54:18,940
again, our newsletter link is in the show notes.

1262
00:54:18,940 --> 00:54:22,220
And as always, remember that the best is yet to come

1263
00:54:22,220 --> 00:54:24,500
as long as you are willing to make the decision

1264
00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:28,140
to never settle, never quit, and never peak.

1265
00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:28,980
Thank you guys.

1266
00:54:28,980 --> 00:54:43,980
I'll see you all next week.