1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,240
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody.

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,840
And welcome to today's episode

3
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,000
of the NeverPeak Project Podcast.

4
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,520
I'm your host, Coach Ranger.

5
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,640
And in today's episode,

6
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,220
we are welcoming another fantastic guest to the podcast.

7
00:00:12,220 --> 00:00:14,440
And it's really just continuing on the series

8
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,800
that Arkansas had some of the best people from my walk.

9
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,040
That's not a judgment against any other state.

10
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,400
It's just the fact that I have had more people

11
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,800
from Arkansas than really any other state on the podcast.

12
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,120
I think California would be the close second

13
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,520
only because I live here.

14
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,160
As I kind of mentioned before in my interview last time

15
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:36,220
with Ty King from the Arkansas Podcast Collaborative,

16
00:00:36,220 --> 00:00:39,280
when I was walking from the border

17
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,520
all the way into Little Rock,

18
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,520
I was very concerned about that space

19
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,200
from Mississippi and Arkansas over to around Little Rock area

20
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,400
just because there was nothing in between.

21
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,000
Then I later found out quickly

22
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,840
that there is a lot in between

23
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,480
and that a lot is fantastic people.

24
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,120
And thankfully that carried on into my time

25
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,400
actually in Little Rock, Arkansas.

26
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,020
If you have been following the podcast for a while

27
00:01:03,020 --> 00:01:05,460
or you just kind of want to scroll back in the audio feed,

28
00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:07,260
I did an interview with a woman named Ashley

29
00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:10,740
from the Venture Center about what the Venture Center does,

30
00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:13,660
their economic and entrepreneurship support

31
00:01:13,660 --> 00:01:16,320
for small businesses in the area.

32
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:17,180
While I was there,

33
00:01:17,180 --> 00:01:19,120
I got to meet a few other people of the team,

34
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,040
got to kind of know some folks,

35
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,040
shake some hands, kiss some babies.

36
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,860
And one of the people I talked to while I was there,

37
00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:28,720
I think she followed me or I followed her on socials.

38
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,880
And I kind of just kept up with her journey

39
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,520
as I was finishing up mine.

40
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:33,660
After I finished the walk,

41
00:01:33,660 --> 00:01:36,320
I was in Greece with my fiance and her family.

42
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,680
I was scrolling through Instagram,

43
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,720
just kind of checking out what everybody was doing.

44
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,980
I saw something very interesting,

45
00:01:41,980 --> 00:01:44,560
which was a workshop series,

46
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,880
which was literary or artistic analysis of Taylor Swift

47
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,040
compared to other cultural phenomena,

48
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,760
other art, music, movies, et cetera.

49
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,380
And I thought that that was insane.

50
00:01:57,380 --> 00:01:58,600
So I looked at it a little bit more

51
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,840
and I realized it was the gal that I had followed

52
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,280
from the Venture Center in Arkansas.

53
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,120
So kind of piecing everything back together,

54
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,320
looking at everything she was doing,

55
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,360
I realized that she is way more than just a Swiftie.

56
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,120
That is what we're gonna talk a little bit about today

57
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,960
is the powerhouse of community,

58
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,960
of networking, of just really building a personal brand

59
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,780
that's come with that.

60
00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:22,680
I view her.

61
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,540
So that is why today I am so excited

62
00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:28,360
to introduce our guest, Victoria Kaepke.

63
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,640
Ranger, I am so honored

64
00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,040
and I truly have no idea how to even speak

65
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,840
or like follow that introduction.

66
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,440
I'm feeling really, really good.

67
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,720
You really kind of like boasted me up

68
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,800
and I'm super excited to talk to you today.

69
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,100
Thank you so much for wanting me on.

70
00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:48,320
And yeah, I was super impressed after I met you

71
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:49,800
when you did stop at the Venture Center

72
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,280
and stoked that you reached out

73
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,200
to wanna carry on the conversation

74
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,360
and just get to know you a little more.

75
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,960
I guess you're getting to know me, but it works both ways.

76
00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:58,800
Awesome, Victoria.

77
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,780
I super appreciate you taking the time to again,

78
00:03:00,780 --> 00:03:02,400
get to know me, me to get to know you

79
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,280
and my audience get to kind of learn from you

80
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,800
and you get to kind of share your magic with our listeners.

81
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,520
But could you just kind of share a little bit

82
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,200
about your journey, who you are,

83
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,380
a little bit of what we talked about in the pre-show,

84
00:03:14,380 --> 00:03:16,960
just to kind of give our listeners an idea of who you are

85
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,460
and why they should continue to listen.

86
00:03:19,460 --> 00:03:21,720
Yeah, a loaded question.

87
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,000
Like you said, a Swifty, yes,

88
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,120
but a lot of other things on top of that.

89
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,880
So as you mentioned, I currently live in Little Rock, Arkansas.

90
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,240
I'm actually from the Atlanta, Georgia area.

91
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,100
And I moved around a bit from Georgia to Minnesota,

92
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:38,240
down to Arkansas, out to Los Angeles.

93
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,560
So I was in your neck of the woods in California

94
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,200
and back out to Arkansas, actually, believe it or not.

95
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,960
I know not many people choose to go back to Arkansas

96
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,600
once they were there, but I did.

97
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,360
Because of the community I fell in love with here,

98
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,880
we can talk about that a little bit later,

99
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,080
because it sounds like you had a similar experience.

100
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,480
But my background is in journalism.

101
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680
I used to be a news anchor and reporter,

102
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,720
and that's kind of what took me around the country

103
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,120
to a few different areas.

104
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,360
And I love that, I love storytelling.

105
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,200
I grew up in the arts and in theater,

106
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,380
and I was able to really kind of carry that passion

107
00:04:12,380 --> 00:04:15,720
over into journalism and into storytelling.

108
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,960
Through that avenue, I was able to explore

109
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,480
a couple of different things that I found out I enjoyed,

110
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:22,760
such as social media.

111
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,520
I was able to find a really big community

112
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,640
I was able to connect with on social media,

113
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,480
because I started posting about my journey as a news anchor

114
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,840
and how I was queer and how I am queer

115
00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:39,080
and what that experience of being a news anchor

116
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,600
in the South and being an openly queer person was like.

117
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,560
I was able to meet so many amazing people because of that.

118
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,880
And I sort of let that journey carry me

119
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,880
into a new chapter of my life, post-news.

120
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,440
I ended up doing a little bit of backpacking around Europe,

121
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,840
kind of finding more of my queer identity

122
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,200
and who I was in my 20s.

123
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,960
I let it carry me over to USC in Los Angeles.

124
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,120
I pursued a master in arts journalism

125
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,080
so I could do more storytelling in art analysis

126
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,700
and in culture and getting to know different cultures

127
00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:18,480
and figuring out how to raise their voices up.

128
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,920
And then I let it bring me back to Arkansas

129
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,640
where I'm actually now living with my fiance

130
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,640
and doing a bunch of really cool things,

131
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,780
such as the literary crossover analysis class

132
00:05:31,780 --> 00:05:33,520
and art analysis class that you mentioned

133
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,200
with Taylor Swift's music,

134
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,480
a super exciting community I've been able to create there

135
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,960
and other things like creating hairpins,

136
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,960
which is a pop-up for queer and lesbian women in Arkansas.

137
00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,440
The venture center, of course,

138
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,080
getting to work with entrepreneurs

139
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,280
and very passionate people is something

140
00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:55,220
that drives my passions and the things

141
00:05:55,220 --> 00:05:57,040
that I'm hoping to do with my life.

142
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,120
And now I'm just rambling at this point.

143
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,480
So there's so many avenues we could take.

144
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,120
Please pick one of them and tell me

145
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,560
which direction to go, I'm begging you.

146
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:07,400
Yeah, of course.

147
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,520
And I think that giving us that bird's eye view

148
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,560
of so many different aspects of who you are,

149
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,360
again, what I've noticed is so interesting

150
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,840
is how easy it is for people to just hook

151
00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,560
onto one or two pieces of our identity.

152
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,480
And that's how they kind of know us.

153
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,520
Like when I was in college,

154
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,680
the people in the fraternity knew me as Ranger,

155
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,640
the kind of go happy, lucky, I don't know,

156
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,040
struggles in school but has a good time, right?

157
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,360
And then in my Toastmasters group,

158
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,840
they knew me as the little ag and farm boy.

159
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,040
And all these different pieces of our identity

160
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,960
that kind of are just small pieces

161
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,440
but really add up to the overall whole.

162
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,440
And I think the one that I'm interested in

163
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,680
to kind of start us off on is the way

164
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,640
that I kind of might see like a piece of you

165
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,680
and a piece of me might be similar.

166
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,360
And it's that aspect of kind of like

167
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,280
that travel around the US aspects.

168
00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:58,120
So when you say that you were able to kind of

169
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,800
jump all over the place and see different,

170
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960
I don't know, was it specifically for reporting on the news

171
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,160
and seeing what was going on in different areas

172
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,280
or what was the drive for that travel specifically?

173
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,600
Totally, I mean, I was born and raised.

174
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,520
I did undergrad in Georgia.

175
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,600
And pretty much after I finished college,

176
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,320
I knew I wanted to go work elsewhere.

177
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,080
And so I am so lucky that I was one of the few

178
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,080
that was able to land a reporting job

179
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,240
straight out of undergrad.

180
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,960
And it took me just five weeks later from graduation

181
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,720
up to Duluth, Minnesota.

182
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,720
So right there on Lake Superior,

183
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,360
which was a total life change, a culture change,

184
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,480
a climatic change, you can imagine,

185
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,440
from the South to the almost Canadian North.

186
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,520
So that was some cold days and cold winters I had there.

187
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,320
And so I was able to kind of do work there

188
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,360
with the station I was at at the time.

189
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,240
And then coming down to Arkansas was also driven

190
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,080
by being offered a position at the station

191
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,880
I worked at here in Little Rock, KATV.

192
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,800
So I did two years here.

193
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,640
Going out to Los Angeles was driven by my master's program.

194
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,520
So kind of still journalism, right?

195
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,400
I wanted to follow the art scene in Los Angeles

196
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,320
and get that arts and culture writing experience

197
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,320
in a place that was thriving with arts and culture.

198
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,480
And then finally, I was not driven by journalism

199
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,120
when I came back to Arkansas.

200
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,120
I was driven by love, which is so different

201
00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,600
and such a cliche, but it's true.

202
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,840
And I'm here and I've had a lot of really cool experiences

203
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:34,680
because of it.

204
00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,640
So a lot of just jumping around to different stations

205
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,680
and following the opportunities is what I would say

206
00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:42,640
moved me around the United States.

207
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,960
Gotcha. How interesting.

208
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,520
I think that's really fascinating.

209
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,440
I think that being able to kind of jump around

210
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,440
to very different, like microclimates or microcultures,

211
00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:54,960
but in such different areas.

212
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,520
Because on my walk, I felt like I was,

213
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,880
I could kind of see the evolution of culture over time.

214
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,080
And I think if I really sat down and wrote it out,

215
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,640
I'd be able to see that more clearly.

216
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,120
But like being in the US South for the most part,

217
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,560
for a vast majority of my walk

218
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,640
until I got to like New Mexico, Arizona area,

219
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,480
like it was relatively the same.

220
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,600
So I'm just curious when you were kind of traveling around,

221
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,040
did you notice any differences or similarities

222
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,280
between the people and the cultures?

223
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,320
And how did that affect you?

224
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:24,160
Definitely.

225
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,000
Yeah, I guess I would have to say

226
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,560
the most experience I had with that would be

227
00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:34,080
between Arkansas and my time in Los Angeles.

228
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,280
My time in Minnesota, I think was kind of clouded

229
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,680
by first big girl job.

230
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:43,640
It was very, very based in the work I was doing there

231
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,680
because I was all in, you know, in your first job too,

232
00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,160
you kind of have to hustle, right?

233
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,720
Like, I don't know if you know this,

234
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,280
but reporters when they start out make very low money.

235
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:53,960
So I was out there, I was hustling,

236
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,320
I was working a second job.

237
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,360
And so because of that,

238
00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,400
I don't think I got to connect with that community

239
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,360
as much as I wish I could have.

240
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,960
I dream of going back to Duluth, Minnesota

241
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,280
every single day, again, a different conversation.

242
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,720
But at least the communities and the cultures

243
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,480
that I met in Arkansas and in California

244
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,520
were so vastly different.

245
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,520
Arkansas, I call home to truly my queer community

246
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,480
and the first community that made me feel confident

247
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,400
in being myself, which I feel like might shock a lot

248
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,600
of people because I feel like you think Arkansas,

249
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,480
you think the South,

250
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,560
you're not immediately going to think LGBTQ friendly.

251
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,200
And I didn't either.

252
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,320
That was until I really got to start meeting the people

253
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,760
behind the community here, behind the label.

254
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,040
And I figured out some of the queer history

255
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,320
based in Arkansas.

256
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,840
And I got involved with the drag scene

257
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,480
and then meeting a lot of the drag performers

258
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,120
around the state, going as far as being able to judge

259
00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,640
the Miss Gay America Arkansas pageant, which was so cool.

260
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,320
I was able to really kind of see the extent

261
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,600
of the community in Arkansas as more than a stereotype

262
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,000
and really got to feel what I think

263
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,240
was true Southern hospitality,

264
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,840
more than what I experienced being in Georgia.

265
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,040
Even though Georgia is technically more far South,

266
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,040
I think because I was Atlanta adjacent,

267
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,760
it sort of had that big city vibe to it at times, right?

268
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,080
Because Atlanta is always the city I hear

269
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,200
as being on the up and up.

270
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,520
So that was what stood out about the Arkansas

271
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,560
and Little Rock community.

272
00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,720
It truly embraced me with open arms.

273
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,440
And that's part of the reason that being back

274
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,920
has felt so much like really coming home.

275
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,480
Los Angeles and California, also kind of a unique

276
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:49,480
and different experience.

277
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,760
So I was out there for a 10 month master's program,

278
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,720
which is insane.

279
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,080
It basically took two years of a program

280
00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,240
smashed into 10 months.

281
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,680
So you can imagine how crazy busy I was out there.

282
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:04,640
And then going to, yeah, I know, same.

283
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,960
I look back and I'm like, I don't know how I survived,

284
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:07,800
but I did it.

285
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,000
Yeah, so that was a wild time, Ranger.

286
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160
But kind of being at USC too,

287
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:21,280
I struggled a little bit with the microcosmic community

288
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,080
that I was around at USC.

289
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:25,760
I'll throw it out there.

290
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,400
People call it the University of Spoiled Children,

291
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,960
and they don't call it that for no reason.

292
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,760
That to say, there were some really awesome people there.

293
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,880
I met one of my absolute best friends there, Grace Murray.

294
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,040
She's literally gonna be a bridesmaid in my wedding.

295
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,240
And she is truly like, yeah, anyways,

296
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,080
I could gush about Grace all day long,

297
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,080
but it's any community you're going to find

298
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:52,920
the good ones too.

299
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,120
So when I was able to break off of USC's campus,

300
00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,120
not saying that everyone there was what they,

301
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,280
not saying everyone there had their noses up,

302
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,480
but when I was able to break off of USC's campus

303
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,320
and really meet the communities of people

304
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,720
who they're not going out to the clubs every single weekend

305
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,400
and spending tons of cash,

306
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,400
but they're having variety shows in alleyways

307
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,720
and in their backyards.

308
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,120
And they're bringing together groups of people.

309
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,280
That experience to me was different in the sense

310
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,800
that I had only experienced community building

311
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,040
like that in a Southern way.

312
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,760
So getting to see that those types of people

313
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,040
existed in California and had to almost fight more for it

314
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,040
in such a hustling, bustling, down to the grind place,

315
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,640
I really appreciated it.

316
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,120
And I really appreciate those people.

317
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,120
And I still am in contact with a lot of those people as well.

318
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,360
So those were kind of the standout experiences

319
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,560
from those communities.

320
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,400
So yeah, just really being able to see that the,

321
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,000
what is it, like the culture is so different,

322
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,600
but there's so many, like, there's a lot of parallels

323
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,360
in between each section it sounds like,

324
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,040
or at least in your experience of those cultures.

325
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,440
Yeah, it was super cool to really see any place you go,

326
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,840
whether it is the North, South, it is Los Angeles,

327
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,520
it is New York and those hustling, bustling cities.

328
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,840
At the end of the day, we're all looking for community

329
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,680
and to see that those kinds of people

330
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,560
who build up those microcosms and those groups

331
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,600
exist everywhere.

332
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,640
I don't know, it's just something that really makes you

333
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,240
appreciate the people you meet in every corner

334
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,800
of the country and really every corner of the world.

335
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,800
Yeah, no, that's so interesting.

336
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,880
I know a big part of what I wanna talk to you today about

337
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,800
was specifically around community and creating those spaces

338
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,040
where people do feel welcome or as though they're part

339
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,160
of a unit of a tribe, community, club,

340
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,320
whatever you wanna call it.

341
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,920
So when it comes to building up the community

342
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,040
for those that are part of the LGBTQ community,

343
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,480
how did you take those lessons from these different parts

344
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,120
of the US and bring it into Little Rock?

345
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,160
Because it sounds like it was fairly strong already,

346
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,880
but how have you kind of added to that strength?

347
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,480
Definitely a good question.

348
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,880
So it's so funny because I mentioned in my little

349
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,120
introduction, Hairpins is this kind of pop-up bar night

350
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,080
that my fiance and I created specifically for lesbians

351
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,480
and queers, but of course that's also open to transgender

352
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,920
and non-binary individuals.

353
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,120
Really we're trying to expand a space specifically

354
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,840
for queer, non-men.

355
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,840
And as open as I found the queer community in Little Rock,

356
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,160
the trend that I've noticed around the country

357
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,760
is that queer spaces are still generally geared

358
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,320
towards gay men.

359
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,840
And that's wonderful that we have those spaces.

360
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,000
I think there's some statistic that's like

361
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,000
around the United States, there's some 800 plus gay bars

362
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,880
that although the term gay opens up a lot of the community,

363
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,360
still technically gay is centered towards gay men.

364
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,000
And there are, I think now 32 lesbian bars

365
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,680
in the entire country.

366
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,240
So when I actually went out to Los Angeles,

367
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,720
I was so excited to be around this huge

368
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,080
and what I thought was this dynamic

369
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,080
and hustling bustling queer community.

370
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,200
One of the very first, I think if not the first article

371
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,080
that I wrote and published in LA was called

372
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,560
Looking for Lesbians Me Too.

373
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,360
And it's because there were no lesbian centered bars.

374
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,960
I couldn't find queer women literally anywhere,

375
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,280
especially I tested the dating scene

376
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,680
for like one month out there, never again.

377
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,040
My God, throw me to the wolves next time.

378
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,280
The LA queer dating scene is power to you

379
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,920
if you're able to handle that one.

380
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,720
But I really struggled to find a queer women's community.

381
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,720
And so that title was actually inspired by an art exhibit

382
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,240
that I went to that was called Looking for Lesbians.

383
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,960
And my goodness, I wish I could remember the artist's name.

384
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,720
I know that she's referenced in the article

385
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,640
that I'm talking about that I wrote here,

386
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,840
but yeah, it was essentially that

387
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,400
and how specifically West Hollywood is known to be

388
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,120
one of the kind of queer meccas of the United States.

389
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:42,760
And it just doesn't extend to queer women.

390
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,040
So in the entirety of my time being out there,

391
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,000
I learned that the last lesbian bar in Los Angeles

392
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,320
actually closed in 2013.

393
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,960
So that would be 11 years ago now.

394
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,560
And in the time that I was out there,

395
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,680
they ended up opening not one, but two lesbian bars,

396
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,040
which was actually a really cool experience.

397
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,320
They opened one called the Ruby Fruit

398
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,200
and they opened one called Honey's,

399
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,800
which is actually geared towards non-men specifically as well.

400
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,640
But it really just kind of opened my eyes

401
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,360
to even in places like Los Angeles

402
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:25,560
that are meant to be these dynamic queer hubs,

403
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,480
that doesn't necessarily extend to queer women.

404
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,440
That doesn't mean that the queer women don't exist.

405
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,280
It just means that there weren't spaces for them to gather

406
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,280
and get together and find community.

407
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,360
So I come back to Arkansas in May of 2023

408
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,160
and I know that one of my priorities

409
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,440
is finding a queer community,

410
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,800
specifically a queer women's community.

411
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,680
I know that that's something

412
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,880
that's going to be really important for me out here,

413
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,440
especially moving in with my partner at the time,

414
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,240
now fiance, it's something we really wanted to find.

415
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,640
So this is kind of a, I promise,

416
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,640
there's a point to the story.

417
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:01,600
A couple of months later,

418
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,920
we ended up going up to New York City

419
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,480
and we visit Cubby Hole for the first time,

420
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,200
which is an iconic lesbian bar up there.

421
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,760
And what we find iconic about it

422
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,680
is that it's just a dive bar.

423
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,680
It's not lasers, it's not techno music, it's not clubbing.

424
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,160
Not that those things aren't wonderful.

425
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,600
Trust me, there's a time and place

426
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,160
and I love that experience,

427
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,800
but it's literally you walk in, it is crowded,

428
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,200
door to window, wall to wall.

429
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,760
And it is just a dirty little dive bar

430
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,800
that queer women get to go to and experience

431
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,120
and meet people and find community.

432
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,280
And it was when we were standing in that bar

433
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,800
that we said, this is what we need.

434
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,280
This is the thing that we're missing

435
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,120
specifically in Little Rock.

436
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:48,480
So we were up in New York City and we were like,

437
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,920
how do we make this happen?

438
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,920
Obviously we're not gonna open a lesbian bar right now.

439
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,520
So let's just start thinking through the dive bars

440
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:56,360
that we have.

441
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:58,760
And we thought of our favorite one here.

442
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,160
It's called Whitewater Tavern.

443
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,560
It opened in the 1970s.

444
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,280
It's actually like a very small kind of famous music venue

445
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,440
through Little Rock.

446
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,160
And we love the people there.

447
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,640
We love the ownership.

448
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,960
Matt White is the kind of events coordinator there.

449
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,680
He's been a great guy and we knew him socially

450
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:18,720
a little bit at that point.

451
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,320
And so we said, what if we had some sort of pop-up

452
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,920
at Whitewater Tavern that was for queer women?

453
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,120
So it's a community space for queer women.

454
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,960
It has the dive bar vibe.

455
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,000
It's not as intensive as opening a bar.

456
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,800
And we knew that that was what we wanted to do.

457
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,800
So we made shit happen and four months later,

458
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,000
Matt was like, let's do it.

459
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,040
Let's do it.

460
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,320
We had no idea what the first one was gonna be like.

461
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,880
And we have sold out every hairpins event since then.

462
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,160
That's what we ended up calling it, hairpins.

463
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,320
And every single time we leave,

464
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,600
Matt is looking at us and shakes our hand

465
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,120
and he's just like, we have never had a presence

466
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,000
like this in Whitewater Tavern,

467
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,200
nor have I seen a presence of queer women like this

468
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,400
in Little Rock for as long as he's lived here.

469
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:14,400
And it's been a really, really humbling experience.

470
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,000
To get to see that grow.

471
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,920
And we're just continuing to grow it

472
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,520
and see how it kind of morphs, I guess, as long as we're here.

473
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,240
Gotcha. That's so interesting.

474
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,320
I love the whole idea of seeing an issue,

475
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,760
seeing where somebody else has done something similar

476
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,320
and putting your own spin on it to create something

477
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,520
that is so needed and required and important.

478
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,160
And I guess my question for you on that one is,

479
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:45,160
why did you decide that it was your and your fiance's

480
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,560
responsibility or something you wanted to take on

481
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,560
to do this as opposed to waiting for someone else

482
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,360
or waiting for something else to happen that was similar?

483
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,560
That's a really good question.

484
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,560
I also ask us that,

485
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,680
why did we feel the need that we had to do this?

486
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,800
We joke all the time about it,

487
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,800
we want our cups filled, so we just fill it ourselves.

488
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,200
Selfishly, it's because we wanted it, right?

489
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,640
Like we wanted to connect with this community.

490
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,640
So we kind of, we saw occasionally things here and there

491
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,400
that we're trying to bring together

492
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,640
queer women in the community.

493
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,640
But my fiance, Whitney and I were very ambitious.

494
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,640
Sometimes we were very ambitious.

495
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,640
We're very ambitious, sometimes a little ambitious

496
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:38,480
for our own good.

497
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,920
And so I think it was just like one of those,

498
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,800
let's use our powers for good, right?

499
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,440
Like let's try and do something fun

500
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,960
with this ability we have.

501
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,320
I sometimes don't give myself enough credit

502
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,680
for being what a lot of people refer to

503
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,200
as an ultra connector.

504
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,240
Like I am the person who's like,

505
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,560
oh, you wanna make this thing happen?

506
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,160
Let me connect you to this person who can either

507
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,400
connect you to someone else

508
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,880
or who can make that thing happen.

509
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,000
And in this instance, I used that power for us

510
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,680
in talking to who I knew and wanting to make this go

511
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,520
and happen.

512
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,600
And we both have backgrounds in marketing,

513
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,520
so we figured how hard can it be to start an Instagram page

514
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,320
and go follow every person we know

515
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,080
and make graphics ourselves

516
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,720
and do the marketing for it ourselves.

517
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,840
And yeah, all these different things.

518
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,960
So that's why us, I think that we just had a lot of energy

519
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,560
and a lot of power stored up in us.

520
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,400
And we said, let's kind of use this in a selfish way.

521
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,680
That's actually not selfish

522
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,560
because it's going to be a really good thing

523
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440
for a lot of other queer individuals.

524
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,720
Yeah, that's something that,

525
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,360
the last little part that you said,

526
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,800
it reminded me of something, what is it?

527
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,560
I use a term a lot called vaguely specific

528
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,960
where you, like for a niche for coaching

529
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:02,920
or for your business,

530
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,480
like a mission statement should be vaguely specific.

531
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,760
Like just vague enough

532
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,960
that people can bring their own meaning to it,

533
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,280
but just specific enough that you get them to kind of think

534
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,000
within certain bounds.

535
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,640
And what that makes me think of when you say kind of,

536
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,360
we made this for ourselves,

537
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,800
but it's good for the community and others

538
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,000
is like selfishly altruistic.

539
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Like there's such a piece of you that's tied into it

540
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,080
that you want this for yourself,

541
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,880
others can benefit from it.

542
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,440
And I'm so glad that you defined

543
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,480
what you meant by your superpower

544
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,960
because that was, as you were saying it,

545
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,640
I was like, what do you mean by your superpowers?

546
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,840
What is your power?

547
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,600
And I think that that aspect of being a super connector,

548
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,880
it's like that's the bucket, right?

549
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,960
Like, I feel like when I think of terms

550
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,200
like super connector or like personable,

551
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,800
like there's other sub skills that go in there.

552
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,880
So like I'm here, I have my own definition

553
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,280
of what could probably go in this bucket,

554
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,280
but for you, like what skills lead to this like superpower?

555
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,440
Does that make sense?

556
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,320
I think so.

557
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,760
Oh man, I have a list I've recently done for my therapist

558
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,760
who actually asked me to write down what my strengths are.

559
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,240
So I wish I could access that list, but it's fine.

560
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,920
What are some of the things that I think go into

561
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,000
being a super connector?

562
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,280
It helps that I am a fairly extroverted person, right?

563
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,280
I don't meet a stranger.

564
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,440
Now that doesn't mean that perhaps I'm ambiverted, right?

565
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,080
I do need some recharge time sometimes, don't get me wrong,

566
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,920
but I don't go anywhere without making a friend

567
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,600
or at least striking up a conversation with someone.

568
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,320
Seriously, any room I walk in,

569
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,720
and if that one other entity in the room is a rock,

570
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,320
I'll be damned, I'll be friends with that rock

571
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,720
by the end of that visit.

572
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,920
So I think that that goes into being a super connector,

573
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,040
but I think one of the things that kind of help fill

574
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,080
that specific trait is the fact that I

575
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440
can't bear the idea of someone

576
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,640
not feeling included in a space.

577
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,120
And I think that that might come from the fact

578
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:22,760
that I was ousted a lot when I was younger.

579
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,320
I, without having to get into details, unless you want to,

580
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,880
I was kicked out of my house when I was younger.

581
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,760
So I was physically ousted when I was in high school.

582
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,520
And I was also socially ousted in a lot of situations.

583
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480
I mean, I was a theater kid, I was an AP kid.

584
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,880
So there were a lot of social reasons

585
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,120
that I was ousted growing up.

586
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,680
I was slightly overweight, so I was ousted for that

587
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,560
because in the 2000s, that's what kids did,

588
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,160
was make fun of you if you didn't fit

589
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,720
a very specific mold of appearances.

590
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,440
And so wanting to include people

591
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,560
is something that has been a passion of mine,

592
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,880
I think especially since starting in journalism.

593
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,240
They always talk about how journalists' responsibility

594
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,960
is to help the voiceless be heard

595
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,200
or raise the voice of those who don't have a voice.

596
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,320
And to me, that's kind of the same thing.

597
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,600
I want to make sure people feel heard.

598
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,280
I want to make sure people feel included.

599
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,680
And it's because a lot of times,

600
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,160
I don't think I felt that way growing up.

601
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,520
So being a super connector, I think what I'm just trying to do

602
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,920
is make sure people know that there is a place

603
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,560
where they can plug in.

604
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,200
And a specific example of this regarding hairpins,

605
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,880
this queer women's pop-up, is when I was out in Los Angeles,

606
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,160
I made a very good friend.

607
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:52,360
And she came out while I was out there, later in life.

608
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:56,200
So she was 29 at the time that she realized that she was queer.

609
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,560
And she was really struggling to find a queer community

610
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,160
outside of her friendship with me.

611
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,600
So when I moved back to Arkansas,

612
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,680
it was really difficult for the both of us.

613
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,320
Actually, this past September, when my fiance and I

614
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,720
hosted a hairpins event here in Arkansas, I told this friend,

615
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,320
I said, hey, do you want to come out to hairpins in Arkansas?

616
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,680
I will buy your plane ticket.

617
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,320
I want to fly you out here.

618
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,040
And I want you to see that a queer community exists.

619
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,720
It exists for you.

620
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:26,840
It might be in Arkansas.

621
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,720
It might be 1,000, 2,000 miles away.

622
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,040
But I want you to know that this community exists.

623
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,520
You are going to find it.

624
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,040
You do belong here.

625
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,520
And it's always waiting for you whenever

626
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,840
you want to reach out to it.

627
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,320
So that is kind of what plays into the super connector

628
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,320
sort of superpower.

629
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,840
Did that even answer your question?

630
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,880
I just went off on a tangent.

631
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:54,200
No, I think it was a vaguely on task tangent.

632
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,240
I think that was fantastic.

633
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,880
See, I love those, like, the big small, right?

634
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,880
Like, that's kind of what it is, right?

635
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,440
Almost like the dichotomy.

636
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,640
How do I say this?

637
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,680
There's something that Alex Hermosy says.

638
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,480
And it's not a decision to be made.

639
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,480
It's like a dichotomy to be managed.

640
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,840
Like, not so much as it's black or white,

641
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,080
but it's on a spectrum of whatever it is typically,

642
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,320
right?

643
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Which maybe that is a tangent in and of itself.

644
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680
But what I wanted to say was the things that came up for me

645
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,240
as you were saying that were very mission or impact driven,

646
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440
that you really want to be of service to others.

647
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,160
And that's what I super love about this podcast

648
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,400
is that that's something that is so prevalent.

649
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,920
And I think that when I was doing my walk was

650
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,600
it was prevalent everywhere.

651
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,080
And I just love seeing how that basic drive to be a support

652
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,440
or to bring in community for others,

653
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,640
whether it's through Western apparel from charity,

654
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,720
the gal I had on a New Mexico, or when I stayed with Burton

655
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,080
in South Carolina and what he was doing with Saluda Now.

656
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,560
It's just something that is so specific all

657
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,600
across the country.

658
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,120
And I guess what kind of surprises me is,

659
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,040
which maybe this can kind of start leading into the T-Swift

660
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,160
conversation almost, is that a lot of things

661
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,680
are very male centric.

662
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,240
And I guess I never realized.

663
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,560
Like, I hear gay bar and I think LGBTQ.

664
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,800
Maybe that's just because I went to UC Davis

665
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,560
and I have seen a lot more than most people have.

666
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,320
But I never really would have thought

667
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:37,400
that the gay gals needed their own space.

668
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,280
I would have thought that they would just go to the gay bar.

669
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,160
So I think that's so interesting that there's

670
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,360
so much more to it than just this.

671
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,680
It's like, I don't want to say.

672
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,680
You guys are in that same category,

673
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,360
but almost like the subcategory.

674
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,360
I feel like I'm just rambling and trying

675
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,880
to wrap my head around it.

676
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,960
How does that resonate?

677
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,960
What am I saying in your words?

678
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:02,760
No, I hear you.

679
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,680
And I love that this is kind of an epiphany that you're having

680
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,000
because I think this is a conversation now that I do

681
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,120
think we need to be having.

682
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,160
And it's the conversation of intersectionality, right?

683
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,040
Like, intersectionality and every aspect of the word

684
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:17,920
is so important.

685
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,160
And it's because not one single group is a monolith, right?

686
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,880
Like, LGBTQ is LGBTQ for a reason.

687
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,320
It doesn't just mean gay.

688
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,160
It means lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer,

689
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,480
and then, of course, our other labels

690
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,400
that we have as well within that.

691
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,320
It is something that exists when we talk about talking

692
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:42,960
about women.

693
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,000
Women are straight.

694
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Women are gay.

695
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Women are wise.

696
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:49,920
Women are mothers.

697
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,880
Women are widows.

698
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,360
Women are Black.

699
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,560
Women are Asian.

700
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,640
Women are white.

701
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,160
Women are all these different things.

702
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,480
Women are CEOs.

703
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,520
Women are stay-at-home mothers.

704
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,640
They're all these kinds of different things.

705
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,760
And they don't just fall under woman, right?

706
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,560
Like, they don't just fall under one category.

707
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,720
So I love that this is an epiphany you're having

708
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,840
because I think when it comes to the queer community

709
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,720
specifically, talking about this difference

710
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,520
between gay men's spaces and queer women's spaces

711
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,800
is a conversation we should be having more in.

712
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,880
I see it happening.

713
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,120
I do, because I am seeing kind of queer-specific pop-ups

714
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,120
happen more.

715
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,800
I'm seeing there was something that came out in,

716
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,400
I want to say, 2021 that's called the Lesbian Bar Project.

717
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,240
That's tracking the amount of lesbian bars in the country.

718
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,880
It's the super interesting media project

719
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,520
I suggest you look into.

720
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,360
And that's the only reason I even

721
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,320
know that there are so few lesbian bars in the country.

722
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,400
But yeah, yeah, I think that's kind of what I hear you saying

723
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,640
is you don't really think about those intersection.

724
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,480
And it's because we kind of just smacked one label onto it.

725
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,760
We said gay.

726
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,640
And when we said gay rights, that's

727
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,040
kind of what we gave it all to.

728
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,160
So really realizing that every group has intersections

729
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,480
and intersectionality is something

730
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,840
that we always need to be talking about.

731
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,600
And it's always a great moment when I'm speaking with someone

732
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,160
and they have kind of that epiphany.

733
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,280
So yeah, you're doing great.

734
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,640
I love it.

735
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,000
That's what I like to hear.

736
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,640
When it comes to building that community,

737
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,880
it sounds like that's a lot of the work you're

738
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,080
doing with the LGBTQ plus community in Arkansas

739
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,560
and across the country, which I'll get into in a second.

740
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,920
Because it's not just hairpins.

741
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,280
It's not just the pop up or the lesbian bars.

742
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,000
It sounds like you're also kind of bringing

743
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,120
a lot of other people together through different interests.

744
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,640
And that's another thing that I've noticed is how,

745
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,640
again, everybody has their own specific interests

746
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,640
and these small micro pieces of them.

747
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,480
And for a lot of people, and especially in culture nowadays,

748
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,280
it looks like Taylor Swift is such a huge part of culture.

749
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,080
She's kind of ingrained anywhere.

750
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,480
I mean, for the people I see on the Facebook comments,

751
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,760
what is it, Infiltrating the NFL, which I'd love to see.

752
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:14,360
Yeah.

753
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,400
I'd love to give my thoughts on that

754
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,000
and hear your thoughts on that.

755
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,920
Oh, boy.

756
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:19,720
Oh, boy.

757
00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:21,320
Trust me.

758
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,160
I want to make something very clear.

759
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,160
I've been a Swiftie since day one.

760
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,000
I had the CDs growing up.

761
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,600
I listened to everything, all that kind of fun stuff.

762
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,840
Enough about me.

763
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,360
What you're doing with the Dear Reader Lits,

764
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,880
I watched the last session that you recently had.

765
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,680
You sent me over the Zoom file.

766
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,120
I thought it was incredible.

767
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,360
It was super well put together, very thoughtful.

768
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,360
And like I said, I just thought the whole idea

769
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,400
of comparing her songs to other forms of art

770
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,560
was so interesting.

771
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,880
Because I feel like a lot of times,

772
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,880
we kind of just listen to music, and we don't really

773
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,160
think more beyond the beat, the rhythm.

774
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,720
Sometimes lyrics resonate with us.

775
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,360
Sometimes they don't.

776
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,880
But what was your driving force between putting

777
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,400
that specific project together, like the genesis of it?

778
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,160
Like how did you, again, I feel like I'm rambling

779
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,160
because I'm excited.

780
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,160
But like how did you even come up with the whole idea

781
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,040
to do something as like intricate, specific, and kind

782
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,680
of maybe silly, or interesting as Dear Reader Lit?

783
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,080
It is all of those things, Ranger.

784
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,920
Yeah, so to kind of clear up what it is,

785
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,040
Dear Reader is a cross analysis of Taylor Swift's music

786
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,880
through different art forms.

787
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,520
And it started as a literary analysis.

788
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,440
So comparing Taylor Swift's music to classic literature,

789
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,960
like The Great Gatsby, like Romeo and Juliet,

790
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,760
like To Kill a Mockingbird.

791
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,120
And then this past session that I did with it

792
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,920
was comparing her music and lyrics and visuals

793
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,800
to actually different films.

794
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,840
And my hope and dream is to continue this kind of art

795
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,120
analysis through her lyrics in many different forms

796
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,040
in many different ways.

797
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,840
But literature and film is kind of the life

798
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,520
it's taken right now.

799
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:20,280
And the way it started was truly a connection to her lyrics.

800
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,680
So I remember, so Taylor Swift is

801
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,920
on this journey of re-releasing her first six albums

802
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,720
Under the Rouge of Taylor's version.

803
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:37,560
And in 2021, Red, which is her fourth studio album,

804
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,000
Red, Taylor's version actually was released.

805
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,520
And one of the more popular songs from that album

806
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,680
is All Too Well, specifically the 10 minute version.

807
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,000
So it's this beautifully and lyrically raw song

808
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,160
that has always been a fan favorite.

809
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,440
And the 10 minute version was no exception.

810
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,480
The day that that song came out, specifically that evening

811
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,280
when the All Too Well short film or music video came out

812
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,440
to coincide with it, I remember sitting in my apartment.

813
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,600
I ordered a pizza.

814
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,200
I bought a bottle of wine.

815
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,600
I sat in the complete dark.

816
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:11,920
I watched that music video.

817
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,200
And then in a very dramatic way, I may say,

818
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,160
for three hours straight, I listened to that song on loop.

819
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,720
And I just internalized the lyrics.

820
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:21,440
I cried.

821
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,360
I definitely drank that whole bottle of wine.

822
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,240
So that wasn't helping the kind of dramatics of it all.

823
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,440
But I was listening to that song.

824
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,560
And there was one specific lyric from the song, which was,

825
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,440
I kept you like a secret.

826
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,960
Or excuse me, you kept me like a secret,

827
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,680
but I kept you like an oath.

828
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,320
And I internalized that specific lyric so intensely.

829
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,120
Because I was relating to it in a way

830
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,600
that I wish I didn't have to.

831
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,160
I was relating to it in the sense

832
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:56,840
that I remember the first woman that I ever dated was closeted.

833
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,400
And so we had a relationship that I

834
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,000
was feeling very much like that lyric.

835
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,800
I had taken an oath to her.

836
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,680
I was being the partner that I thought

837
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,160
that she wanted and needed, but I had to be kept a secret.

838
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,120
So that was a lyric that really hit home for me.

839
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:18,920
And I related to it in that way.

840
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,760
I don't know why Taylor wrote the lyric.

841
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,680
I'm not saying at all that that's why she wrote the lyric.

842
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,120
But that's what I resonated with when I listened to that song.

843
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,840
And I think the cultural phenomenon that is Taylor

844
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:38,600
Swift is that her lyrics are so incredibly specific,

845
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,320
and yet somehow so universally relatable.

846
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,120
Because we all take bits and pieces of her songs,

847
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,480
and we find ourselves in them.

848
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,760
That's what we love about her music so much,

849
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,840
is that we can see ourselves in her lyrics.

850
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,880
And so I was kind of thinking through that.

851
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,840
And during my master's program, I

852
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,560
told you I did this whole program based on art analysis.

853
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,800
I actually had this wonderful opportunity

854
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,720
to deep dive into her Midnight's album, which came out

855
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:11,400
during my fall semester of my master's program.

856
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,400
And so for one of my articles that I published,

857
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,880
I ended up diving into her lyrics on the Midnight's album.

858
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,800
And what stuck out to me was a concept

859
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,640
that I was able to pull from Oscar Wilde's 1800s farcical

860
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,760
play, The Importance of Being Earnest.

861
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:33,280
I know.

862
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,120
How did we just jump from All Too Well to Oscar Wilde?

863
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,080
It's because that's literally how my brain works.

864
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,200
I'm a crazy person, right?

865
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,600
So I grew up a theater kid, right?

866
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,440
So I absolutely love this play.

867
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,400
And the idea that I'm pulling out from Oscar Wilde's

868
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,200
The Importance of Being Earnest is basically this concept

869
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,520
of living a double life.

870
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,800
It's called bun burying.

871
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,440
I'm trying not to get too technical with you here.

872
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,520
But this idea of living a double life

873
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,840
is something that I saw and heard

874
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,160
come to fruition in one of Taylor's songs,

875
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,520
specifically Antihero.

876
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,320
So anyways, I write about that in the article.

877
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,080
And I talk about the experience.

878
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,600
I interview people who are having

879
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,560
their own internalized interpretations of her music.

880
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,000
And all of that in combination with these kind of deep dive

881
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,640
conversations that I'm able to have with my fiance, who's

882
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,480
also a huge Swiftie, who also analyzes and interprets

883
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,080
and internalizes her lyrics like I do.

884
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,680
I mean, we were able to sit down in the hallway

885
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,840
with whiteboards, literally like crazy people.

886
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,040
I'm not even going to lie.

887
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,080
And just connect different things in her songs

888
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,200
that we were like, oh my god.

889
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,920
This is something that we saw in our ninth grade literature

890
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,760
class growing up.

891
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,000
We saw this concept play out in Romeo and Juliet.

892
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,960
We saw this concept play out in To Kill a Mockingbird.

893
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,600
This is a coming of age story.

894
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,800
That's what these things are.

895
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,440
And so fast forward to probably a year later.

896
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,040
I'm now living in Arkansas.

897
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,920
And the actual, actual, actual genesis of the class

898
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,880
was a road trip to and fro New Orleans from Little Rock.

899
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,520
And there are long stretches where we don't have any cell

900
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,720
service, so we're forced to talk to each other like real people.

901
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:26,480
And my fiance and I are like, what do we

902
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,960
do with all of this information that we're just

903
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,960
talking about all the time?

904
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,640
What do we do with all these things that

905
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,880
are swimming around in our head and the weirdly long documents

906
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,560
of notes that I have in my Google Drive?

907
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:46,000
And we were like, let's do a class.

908
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,920
Let's teach people.

909
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,080
You don't have any experience teaching Victoria,

910
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,040
but you can talk to people.

911
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,520
So you can definitely teach.

912
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:59,440
And I said, as confidently as ever, yes, I totally can.

913
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,560
On the inside, she was not confident, ladies

914
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,760
and gentlemen, but I ran with it.

915
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,960
And I pitched the idea to a local bookstore.

916
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:09,760
They loved it.

917
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:15,320
And on actually December 13, which is exactly a year ago,

918
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,120
today that we're recording this, Ranger,

919
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,280
we announced the first Dear Reader class.

920
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,800
We announced on Taylor's birthday in 2023

921
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,960
that we would be holding this class.

922
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,280
And it kind of blew up very quickly.

923
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,960
And it's taken a life of its own from there.

924
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,880
I realize that I talk so much.

925
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,600
I'm so sorry.

926
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,160
No, I just realized that today is Taylor Swift's birthday.

927
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,680
Not realize, you just told me.

928
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:44,360
Yeah.

929
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,240
Which is super cute, because my little sister's birthday

930
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,920
is tomorrow, or her birthday party at least.

931
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,520
And she's having a Taylor Swift themed birthday party.

932
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,000
I made her invite.

933
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:54,800
Oh my gosh.

934
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,440
I don't want to show it on social media,

935
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,080
because I'm afraid I'll get sued.

936
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,200
But it's like the Arrows Tour poster.

937
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:01,280
I made it in Canva.

938
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,640
It's super cute.

939
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,640
I love that.

940
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,280
And I didn't realize it, but her little Amazon

941
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,240
wish list is Taylor Swift CDs and pop figures.

942
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:14,600
And it was super cute.

943
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,920
I was like, oh my god.

944
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,160
Oh my god.

945
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:17,960
That's so good.

946
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,160
I love it.

947
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,840
And something that came up when you

948
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,320
were talking about her lyrics was, again, my concepts,

949
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,240
hair behind ear, of that vaguely specific,

950
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:34,320
that they're just vague enough that people can,

951
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,240
anybody can relate, but just specific enough

952
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:41,120
that it brings up a specific emotion or memory for them.

953
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,600
And my top artist for the year was Mike Posner,

954
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,720
who he walked across the country a few years ago.

955
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,920
And that's what I thought what I loved about one of his albums

956
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,800
that he wrote about walking was, it's called Keep Going.

957
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,800
And it was just being able to see myself

958
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,880
in all of those songs was so interesting.

959
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,600
And there's so many other times and other lyrics

960
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,320
and other songs of his that I can see myself in.

961
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,720
So I think that also does translate

962
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,600
into a lot of Taylor's music.

963
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:19,400
And when it comes to her lyrics, in terms of enrolling people

964
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,320
into this course, you and your fiance

965
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,000
were able to put this together, take all of this stuff

966
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,760
swimming around in your head, and really create something

967
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,160
unique out of it.

968
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,120
When you were telling people about what

969
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,960
you were trying to do and enrolling them in that vision,

970
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,880
what was that process like?

971
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,760
Yeah, so we owe so much to, especially

972
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,120
for that first class, Paper Hearts Bookstore.

973
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,800
That is the independent bookstore

974
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,200
that we partnered with for that first literature course,

975
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,560
because they were a huge marketing help to us.

976
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,240
My fiance is a brilliant graphic designer,

977
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,120
and so she has graciously created

978
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,360
every graphic, every PowerPoint, literally any visual

979
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,480
that we have put out for this class.

980
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,200
And so we essentially gave Paper Hearts these graphics,

981
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,040
and we said, put these on your channels, please.

982
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,120
We know Swifties, but we don't know how to reach them.

983
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,160
And essentially, we were specifically

984
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,920
trying to reach a bookish community of Swifties,

985
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,480
which going through a bookstore is the perfect opportunity

986
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,240
for that.

987
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,880
So we found all these people who followed the Paper

988
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,200
Hearts page who jumped on board, because they

989
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,120
happened to be Swifties as well.

990
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,560
And so that is a big part of how we were

991
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,200
able to reach them in the beginning.

992
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,520
There are other things as well.

993
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,160
It helps that I have a journalist background,

994
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,800
because because of that, I know how

995
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,840
to make media appearances and media connections.

996
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,200
So I was able to go on a few talk shows here in Little Rock.

997
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,480
I was able to get a few coverage kind of articles

998
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,760
from different entities here in Arkansas.

999
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,120
The coolest experience, though, is

1000
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,200
that some of these opportunities started finding us.

1001
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,560
And the class kind of took on this sort of life of its own,

1002
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,080
and there would be conversation about it that would happen

1003
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,560
that we had nothing to do with.

1004
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,720
For example, this class is actually

1005
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:25,360
being turned into a book that is coming out in September of 2025.

1006
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,800
And the reason that even happened

1007
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,480
is because one of the articles got

1008
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:37,280
published in a Reader's Weekly newsletter

1009
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:43,280
that my now agent found in a random email newsletter.

1010
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,760
And so that is kind of an example of the ripple effect

1011
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,800
that happened because of all these, again,

1012
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,000
cross-sections and intersections of communities

1013
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,080
that are reached, the book community, the Swiftie

1014
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,440
community, the local communities.

1015
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,400
Then, of course, social media is a huge help as well, right?

1016
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,960
I have a little bit of this TikTok following,

1017
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,120
and so it helped that when Taylor actually

1018
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,760
announced the Tortured Poets department

1019
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,440
during the sort of onboarding session of this class,

1020
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,960
I was able to start making some analyses of what we think

1021
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,560
that this album is going to be like

1022
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,760
or what we think we're going to see in some of these songs.

1023
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,320
And that was able to uptick interest to the point

1024
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,760
that our next round of classes in the fall,

1025
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,160
we actually didn't just have national students,

1026
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,720
we had international students.

1027
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:38,480
So it was an in-person and an online class, by the way.

1028
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,720
So in our first round, I think we

1029
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,840
had 14 different states represented from students.

1030
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,800
And then in our second round, we had a handful of states.

1031
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,220
But then, like I said, we also had

1032
00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:51,080
a couple of international students as well.

1033
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,520
So that was a super cool experience.

1034
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,560
Yeah, that's so, I don't know, I'm just reeling.

1035
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,480
I just think that's such a unique, cool thing to do.

1036
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,400
Bring people in for such a, I feel a lot in coaching

1037
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,720
and in business, everybody talks about niching down

1038
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:09,720
and finding your target demographic

1039
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:11,880
and really visualizing who they are.

1040
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,680
And that is the niches of niches.

1041
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,740
Not only are they in the book or literary analysis,

1042
00:48:18,740 --> 00:48:20,840
but also Taylor Swift, also community,

1043
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,640
also these different things.

1044
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,520
And the video of yours that I watched

1045
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,320
that you sent me from your last session of Dear Reader Lit

1046
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,840
was basically comparing, oh my gosh, the Truman

1047
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,920
show to Taylor Swift and some of her performances

1048
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:42,040
and really just diving into that performance and persona

1049
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,120
that she puts on in her shows.

1050
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,120
And I want to give away, I guess,

1051
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,720
I don't want to give away all your secrets.

1052
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:50,480
I don't know if you're ever going to do the thing again.

1053
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,680
Maybe this will be good for enrollment too.

1054
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:58,880
But when it comes to that, it's not just about her.

1055
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,240
Like the thing that I got out of that

1056
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,440
was kind of reading some of the stories

1057
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,240
that you'd posted in your article

1058
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,520
and on your web page about Dear Reader Lit

1059
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:13,640
was we see ourselves in film, in art, in literature, in music.

1060
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,600
So I guess what I'm curious about

1061
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,200
is when it comes to that stage performance

1062
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,400
that she's putting on, have you noticed yourself kind

1063
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,200
of falling into that performer role

1064
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:28,440
when it comes to Dear Reader Lit or hairpins or anything else?

1065
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,480
And how does that play into making these so successful?

1066
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,160
Interesting.

1067
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,320
Are you kind of, OK, so let me say it back to you

1068
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,360
to see if I'm on the same page as you right now.

1069
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:47,000
So you're asking if I am kind of putting on the Taylor Swift

1070
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,680
TM charm in my own sort of Victoria way.

1071
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,400
Am I being Victoria TM to make these things kind of work?

1072
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:56,640
Is that what you're wondering?

1073
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:03,240
I think you said it a lot clearer than I did, yes.

1074
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:04,720
Because I feel like a lot of times,

1075
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,080
Taylor Swift came out earlier as like, we are all so like,

1076
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,280
we have so many different aspects of who we are as a person.

1077
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,360
And really diving in on these specific aspects

1078
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,160
to bring other people into the community

1079
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,960
that we want to create.

1080
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,280
I think something that I've been thinking about a lot

1081
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:26,160
from the walk is identity and who we see ourselves as.

1082
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,120
That concept of, oh, all you have to do is be yourself.

1083
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,400
But there's so many different parts of our self.

1084
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,000
So I think this is me asking you to give me

1085
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,840
clarity for my own self, but also people listening.

1086
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,520
But how does being a performer fall into or play a role

1087
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,480
in everything that you're doing?

1088
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,280
I think that's such a good question.

1089
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,440
My goodness, Ranger, you nailed it with that one.

1090
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:56,960
So I am so fascinated by this concept.

1091
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,360
And my voice cracked when I said that.

1092
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,920
I am so fascinated with this concept.

1093
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,400
And again, going back to my grad program,

1094
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,520
I actually did some studies specific to performance studies,

1095
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,320
which is a lens.

1096
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,560
It's kind of a newer sort of academic lens

1097
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,480
in which you view the world through performance, pop

1098
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,800
culture, and sort of these different kind of, I just,

1099
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,200
lenses, I guess.

1100
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:28,000
And so there is this idea with that that every version

1101
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,160
of ourselves that we present to different communities

1102
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,040
or different audiences at all points of the day

1103
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,960
are different performances, right?

1104
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,040
Like mini performances.

1105
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,400
The way that you act in a work setting.

1106
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,960
So the way that I act when I have my badge on at the venture

1107
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,240
center, my full time professional job where

1108
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,040
I'm working with entrepreneurs, although I'm still

1109
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,800
being a version of myself, I am going to be an uplifted version

1110
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,160
of myself.

1111
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,560
And it's going to be a very different version of myself

1112
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,000
than who I am when I'm at hairpins, which is a dive bar

1113
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,160
lesbian bar night.

1114
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,720
I sure as hell hope that I'm not exactly

1115
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:06,840
acting the same at the venture center

1116
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,120
that I am acting at hairpins.

1117
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,920
Because you better believe.

1118
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,920
I'm dancing the night away when I'm at hairpins.

1119
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:17,520
My god, I sound like I'm 80 when I say that.

1120
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,960
But yeah, so this idea of performance

1121
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:26,760
and how it plays into specifically all kind of these,

1122
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,520
all of these kinds of different adventures

1123
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:34,680
that I am sort of finding myself on.

1124
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:45,800
Yeah, I definitely do put on, I'm trying to think here.

1125
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,720
I definitely play into a role.

1126
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:48,800
I do.

1127
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,160
And it's so interesting that you bring attention to that too,

1128
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,320
just because when I was working in news,

1129
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,720
a part of the reason that I am not a TV reporter and anchor

1130
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,360
anymore is because I really struggled with identity.

1131
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,600
And I really had to put on a version of myself

1132
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,280
every single day that I felt like I wasn't.

1133
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,120
I had the perfect blonde bob.

1134
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,400
And I had to wear the TV news anchor dresses

1135
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,440
that you can visualize, you at home if you're listening.

1136
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,360
I know you can picture those perfect little Barbie doll news

1137
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:23,600
anchor dresses.

1138
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,240
Nothing wrong with them.

1139
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:27,320
It's just not what I wanted to wear.

1140
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:28,960
I don't know if people can see this now,

1141
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,000
but I have very short brown hair.

1142
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,040
And I mostly wear men's clothing because I

1143
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,120
think it's comfortable and usually cheaper.

1144
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,600
And that kind of news anchor look that I fell into

1145
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,600
just wasn't me.

1146
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,240
It wasn't what I was comfortable with.

1147
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,400
And so I struggled with this idea

1148
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,000
of having to put on a performance for everyone

1149
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,320
and feeling like that hindered who I was

1150
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:58,040
and how I was growing as a 20-something-year-old.

1151
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,760
And so for you to point out now that what I'm doing essentially

1152
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,280
is this version of different performances of myself

1153
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:06,400
is really interesting.

1154
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,080
And I think I might be having a slight existential crisis

1155
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,680
because of it.

1156
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,480
But it's different because I don't

1157
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,360
think it's a bad thing to put on a performance sometimes

1158
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,520
in the sense that sometimes when you're not feeling confident,

1159
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,480
acting confident makes you confident.

1160
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,880
There are studies that show that.

1161
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,760
I don't know the study, but there

1162
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:26,720
are studies that show that.

1163
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:27,600
I've heard people say it.

1164
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,840
I listened to a podcast myself this morning

1165
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,280
that talked about it.

1166
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:39,200
And so yeah, maybe ask a follow-up question to this.

1167
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,800
Because now my gears are turning.

1168
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:47,760
And so long answer long, yes, I am performing to an extent of I

1169
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:53,080
have to fill different roles to help build

1170
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,920
these different communities, if that makes sense.

1171
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,440
Yeah.

1172
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,120
And what's coming up for me as you're talking about this,

1173
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,280
I'm thinking and to be completely honest,

1174
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,520
I've never watched The Truman Show all the way

1175
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,240
through in one sitting.

1176
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:11,640
But based off of what I have seen and I haven't seen Forrest

1177
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:12,240
Gump either.

1178
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,000
Let me tell you, that one's the worst.

1179
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,520
Being compared to him for six months

1180
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,800
for the rest of my life also, oh my god.

1181
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:25,520
But what's coming up for me there is in The Truman Show,

1182
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,320
he doesn't know he's performing.

1183
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,640
He's just being himself.

1184
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,360
And I guess why, because a lot of what you said

1185
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,640
resonates with me too.

1186
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,040
The way that I act with my fiance

1187
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,960
is very different than the way I act with her parents.

1188
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,160
It's different than the way that I

1189
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,040
act when I'm at a networking event, when

1190
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,480
I'm with my best friends, when I'm with my little sister.

1191
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,920
They're all versions of me.

1192
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,560
And I think that I thought of that too,

1193
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,680
is that is it inauthentic to change

1194
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,400
who you are in these different circumstances?

1195
00:55:53,400 --> 00:56:01,040
Or is it just being who I am in different regards?

1196
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,360
Like is it performance or are you just being?

1197
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,040
You know what I mean?

1198
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,880
Yeah, I am hearing you loud and clear.

1199
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,440
And I just didn't know we were going

1200
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,520
to get this philosophical in our conversation,

1201
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:16,560
but I'm loving it.

1202
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,120
I think you're right.

1203
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,920
So it's all versions of us.

1204
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,000
I still think it's performance because it's

1205
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,840
a performance in the sense that you are doing something.

1206
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,040
You are acting a certain way in a certain community,

1207
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,280
and that doesn't mean that that's inauthentic.

1208
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:39,840
That is what we mean by performance.

1209
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,280
We don't mean performance as in putting on a fake character

1210
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,640
in a theatrical show.

1211
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,440
But it goes back to what I was talking about earlier,

1212
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:55,320
about intersectionality and how we are just not monoliths.

1213
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:01,040
And communities that we are in are not monoliths either.

1214
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,560
We as individuals, although we might

1215
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,800
have these different kinds of things that we're with,

1216
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,280
although you might talk differently with your fiance

1217
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,360
than you do with their parents, doesn't

1218
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,000
make that version of you or one version of you

1219
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,600
versus the other in inauthentic version, to your point.

1220
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,960
And it's because we are these dynamic individuals

1221
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,520
who have different interests, who are different things.

1222
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,320
I see intersections between the hairpins community

1223
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,440
that I work with and the Taylor Swift community

1224
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:38,280
that I work with.

1225
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,560
I am that intersection.

1226
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,760
I quite literally am that intersection.

1227
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:48,360
There are women who I have met in Dear Reader who

1228
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,040
have gone to all of the hairpins events.

1229
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,800
There are people who I have met at hairpins events

1230
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,720
who I've said, hey, if you're still

1231
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,640
looking for more community, come to a Taylor Swift class.

1232
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,360
And they happen to be mild Taylor Swift fans

1233
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,000
and then found an even greater community because of it.

1234
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,040
I can think of specific instances

1235
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,680
in both kind of directions.

1236
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,960
There are people from my reporting days

1237
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,240
who I am now working with in hairpins

1238
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,800
or who I'm seeing in the hairpins community.

1239
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,280
And there are people from my reporting days

1240
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,840
who I know are Taylor Swift fans.

1241
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,600
And so although you might be performing

1242
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,240
as different versions of yourself in all of them,

1243
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,240
it all goes back to intersectionality

1244
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:36,040
and how building community is at the end of the day,

1245
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,360
whether it's me or whoever is doing it

1246
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,160
or whoever is wanting to be a part of it,

1247
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:44,240
is understanding that we're all kind of connected in some way.

1248
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,680
Truly, we are all sort of connected in some way.

1249
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:54,920
So yeah, to your point, I think that that's to your point.

1250
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,360
I don't have an end to my point.

1251
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,840
I think that that kind of is the point, right?

1252
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:08,320
That we are not these single faceted, single layer

1253
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,120
creatures, if you want to say that.

1254
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:12,680
I don't know what.

1255
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,600
It's not just we are ourselves.

1256
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:23,040
It's like, to what degree are we being ourselves?

1257
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,440
Earlier when I said there's that line,

1258
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,960
the black and white thinking, and there's

1259
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760
that aspect of there's these gray areas,

1260
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,920
it's almost making me think there's the black,

1261
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:38,800
there's the white, there's the A and the B, the 1 and the 2,

1262
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,840
the asterisk and the dollar symbol.

1263
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:46,120
There's more degrees of who we are as people or as individuals

1264
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,520
than just this one specific aspect.

1265
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:50,880
And I think that we could probably

1266
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,240
talk about this for maybe another episode

1267
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,240
or maybe bring in performance and identity on another topic.

1268
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,760
But just out of respect for your time

1269
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,880
and for everything that's going on,

1270
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,040
I do have a quick question for you from someone

1271
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,280
from our school community.

1272
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,960
I got a few other questions from them,

1273
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,760
but I think we answered them throughout.

1274
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,880
So thank you to everybody that did submit questions.

1275
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,160
I appreciate it.

1276
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,760
And for those that aren't sure how to submit questions,

1277
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,200
the best way to do it are to comment or send me

1278
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,960
DMs on the Instagram and Facebook posts that I make.

1279
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:29,520
But the question that I have is around community

1280
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:35,040
and how COVID has affected the arrows tour and also

1281
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,640
people's desire to find these in-person communities.

1282
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,880
So it's from Elliot from my school community.

1283
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:47,600
And he asked, how did COVID and being in lockdown

1284
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,120
affect people's desire for community

1285
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,480
and how did that kind of play into the arrows tour slash

1286
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,120
potentially Victoria's workshop series?

1287
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,680
Lucky for you, Elliot, and everyone out there,

1288
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,360
indirectly, my master's thesis work

1289
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,040
talked about this directly.

1290
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,000
So yeah, I know.

1291
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,240
Isn't that a little bit crazy?

1292
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,120
So quite literally, I talked about the importance

1293
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:21,120
of storytelling performance and in-person, specifically

1294
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:25,840
in-person performance post-COVID and how we,

1295
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,120
as a society, are having this renaissance of a time

1296
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:29,640
right now.

1297
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,640
So when the Renaissance era happened originally,

1298
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:38,200
it happened after a plague that basically took out thousands

1299
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:39,000
of people.

1300
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:43,120
And so it happened after this dark period of time

1301
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:47,680
where people were hurting, they were sick, they lost a lot,

1302
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,800
and they were really kind of in immensely dark place.

1303
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,160
Does that sound familiar?

1304
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,880
Yeah, that's what happened during COVID.

1305
01:01:54,880 --> 01:02:01,160
And we were so deprived of not only connection

1306
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,840
with other people, but we were deprived of art.

1307
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,480
We were deprived of creativity.

1308
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,840
We were deprived of all the things that we took for granted,

1309
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:16,000
such as getting to experience shows in person.

1310
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,080
And if we want to continue connecting it back

1311
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,320
to the Taylor Swift of it all, people who had tickets

1312
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,120
to her Loverfest at the time, actually,

1313
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:26,560
those shows got canceled.

1314
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,400
And we had to stop that from happening.

1315
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,480
And so what I specifically talked about in my thesis work

1316
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:39,000
was the power of in-person performance

1317
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,200
and how that chemically changes your body.

1318
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:46,000
I spoke to, my goodness, now I can't remember anyone's names,

1319
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,840
but it was a professor from UT Austin

1320
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,200
who has done work in performance ethnography.

1321
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,840
And ethnography is essentially the study of a culture

1322
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,600
and of different people by immersion,

1323
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,760
by being with a certain culture.

1324
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,920
And this performance ethnography piece

1325
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:09,520
was talking about how she experienced a certain culture

1326
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,320
that she went and visited and how

1327
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,600
she was trying to basically recreate

1328
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,000
that culture and that experience through her performance.

1329
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,320
And the people who came to that performance,

1330
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,840
how that was going to impact the way,

1331
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,040
whether they knew it or not, that they would take the bus

1332
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,960
to work the next day, for example.

1333
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,480
We don't understand that things are happening chemically

1334
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,760
in our body when we are surrounding ourselves

1335
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,440
with other people or with performance.

1336
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,800
And so in the wake of COVID, I think that we all kind of just

1337
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:48,440
understood what was happening when we weren't experiencing it,

1338
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,200
when we had that sort of separation.

1339
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:55,920
So now I think that we are ultra aware of what's happening

1340
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:57,720
when we are experiencing it, when

1341
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:02,200
we are having a connection with another person,

1342
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,600
whether it is in a large scale community experience,

1343
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,400
like the Iris Tour and the Taylor Swift phenomena of it

1344
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,760
all, or whether we are just getting

1345
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:15,000
to sit inside of a coffee shop with a group of our friends,

1346
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,520
something that many of us were deprived of during that period

1347
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:19,840
of COVID-19.

1348
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,200
So I think that we are having such a boom and a need

1349
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,680
for community right now because we are experiencing it.

1350
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:34,000
In a Renaissance level of experience, outwardly

1351
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,800
and in our body, I guess.

1352
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,160
That was, I wasn't expecting that when I wrote down

1353
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:41,960
the question earlier.

1354
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:47,000
That was so insanely detailed and intricate and cool.

1355
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,880
And thank you for sharing all of that.

1356
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,280
I feel like once I have this recording done,

1357
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,400
I'm going to have to re-listen to that over and over

1358
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:55,720
and over again.

1359
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,640
And it just reminds me of platforms like school

1360
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:02,200
to begin, just how people gravitate

1361
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,080
towards online communities or how we're gravitating

1362
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,880
towards these clubs or groups or Dear Reader

1363
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:10,400
lid or hairpins and like that.

1364
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:15,960
That is such a great human need.

1365
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,340
And I think that is something I think

1366
01:05:18,340 --> 01:05:22,280
I need to ruminate on more myself and maybe journal on

1367
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:23,780
and talk about because now I'm thinking

1368
01:05:23,780 --> 01:05:27,280
of all these experiences from the walk

1369
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,960
and from what I saw and what I experienced there

1370
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:36,920
and how that transpires and comes together.

1371
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,520
That was amazing.

1372
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,280
I don't know if this is allowed, but is your thesis,

1373
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,120
is that available for people to read

1374
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,760
or is that property of the university or something

1375
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,560
or do we have to pay to see it?

1376
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,760
I think it's available.

1377
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:56,320
I have never personally had anyone ask me

1378
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:58,440
to read my thesis, so thank you.

1379
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,240
No, I want to say it's available.

1380
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:03,920
Let me do a little bit of digging

1381
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,080
and I will send something over to you.

1382
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:13,400
I definitely have a one single bound printed version of it

1383
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,480
that perhaps I could photocopy if I really

1384
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:16,680
wanted to get technical with it.

1385
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,080
But let me do some digging and I'll

1386
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:19,880
see if I can send that to you.

1387
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,040
It was a really cool experience.

1388
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:27,200
And I would love for more people to talk about it.

1389
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,880
Can I ask you a question?

1390
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,640
I know that that's not how this works, but I want to.

1391
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,040
You're going to flip the script on me

1392
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:34,840
and ask me questions on my own podcast?

1393
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,280
Heck yeah, dude, what's up?

1394
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,040
Yeah, it's the journalist in me.

1395
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,720
She lives on forever.

1396
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:44,400
So we're talking about this idea of creating community

1397
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:48,360
and the physical change that happens in us

1398
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,480
when we are surrounding ourselves with people.

1399
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,640
So now that you're in the gear of reflecting on your walk

1400
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,040
across America, how do you think that that connection

1401
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,920
with other people was changed with you physically

1402
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,720
walking to their spaces as opposed to getting in a car

1403
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,520
and driving to them?

1404
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,720
That's such a good question.

1405
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:16,120
I think a lot about it is just tied up in the vulnerability.

1406
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,960
I had some form of self-protection,

1407
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,000
but at the end of the day, I was just this little flesh

1408
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,040
machine walking everywhere.

1409
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,640
I didn't have a car to get away fast.

1410
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:30,080
I didn't have anything to escape quickly or camouflage

1411
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:31,440
or hide myself.

1412
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:33,560
So I think that a lot of it was just really tied up

1413
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,800
in being so open and vulnerable to everything around me.

1414
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,160
And when it comes to, I guess, seeing community,

1415
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:46,240
was just seeing how similar people are all

1416
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:50,160
across the country, whether or not they were strongly

1417
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,240
Republican or extremely Democrat,

1418
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:56,000
or they were super straight and never,

1419
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:00,200
I say super straight as if you can have beyond straight.

1420
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:00,680
I don't know.

1421
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:01,800
You know what I mean?

1422
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:06,960
Or that they were in the LGBT community.

1423
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,720
Or I think super straight also means

1424
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,800
that there's also super gay, which maybe there is.

1425
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,880
I don't know.

1426
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:13,720
Hey, it's a scale.

1427
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:14,760
It's a scale.

1428
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:15,320
It's a scale.

1429
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:16,000
OK.

1430
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,880
But I think that a lot of it was just so tied up

1431
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,360
in seeing how, generally speaking, everybody

1432
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:26,480
that I came across with, there is such an innate curiosity

1433
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:29,640
and community within every single person

1434
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,400
that people were willing to come up and talk to me.

1435
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,400
The people were willing to pull over and check on me

1436
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:39,000
or say that they saw me on the news

1437
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,720
or asked me what I was doing, invite me into their homes,

1438
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:47,040
invite me to camp out on their property or offer support

1439
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,200
or ask me to take a picture with their kid, which

1440
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,600
the first time that that happened,

1441
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,480
I was just kind of blown away that they

1442
01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:58,320
were willing to trust the joke, the homeless unemployed guy

1443
01:08:58,320 --> 01:08:59,520
next to their daughter.

1444
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,680
I think a lot of it is just so tied up in that people

1445
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,760
are innately good.

1446
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,200
And I think that if we had more time

1447
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:15,880
to focus on not just surviving in the day to day,

1448
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,880
but have time and space for curiosity,

1449
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,920
I think that that really is the key to opening up.

1450
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,840
Does that answer your question so far?

1451
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:26,440
Yeah.

1452
01:09:26,440 --> 01:09:27,400
No, I love that.

1453
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:31,440
And I think, kind of just to piggyback on that,

1454
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:37,600
it's this experience of having that time and that curiosity.

1455
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,360
And opening yourself up to that opportunity,

1456
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,120
that is how you find community.

1457
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,280
That is how you find connections with other people.

1458
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,640
And so I love that that's kind of what

1459
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,640
seems to be the experience that you had

1460
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:54,600
and that you're able to share that firsthand now with others.

1461
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,800
It's not just the story we're reading about online,

1462
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,280
but it's like you are such a personable guy

1463
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,640
to be able to actually have that experience

1464
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,120
and share that the way you do with others,

1465
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:05,160
I think is really special.

1466
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,040
So thank you for what you do.

1467
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:11,920
Because it is super inspiring to what I do as well.

1468
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:12,440
Well, good.

1469
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:15,160
I'm glad that you appreciate that.

1470
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,600
And I hope it resonates with others as well.

1471
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,360
I think the biggest thing that I've noticed too

1472
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,400
is just the importance of sharing your experience.

1473
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,400
Something that Gary V says is document, don't create.

1474
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,560
And it's just like sharing what you're going through,

1475
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:31,960
sharing what you have gone through.

1476
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,360
Because for the walk, if Mark and Andrew

1477
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,240
hadn't shared their story, I might not

1478
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:37,800
have realized that I could do it.

1479
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,520
And I'm sure there's been plenty of people

1480
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:44,280
that you've inspired by sharing your story of being in the LGBTQ

1481
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,760
community in Arkansas as a person trying

1482
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:48,840
to make a difference.

1483
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:50,640
That's inspired plenty of people.

1484
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,520
People that you don't even know about that

1485
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:53,840
have never even told you.

1486
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,000
I think there's so many different stories and aspects

1487
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,920
that we can share with others.

1488
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,920
But when it comes to your story, if people

1489
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,720
want to continue following along and hear more about what

1490
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,760
Victoria has in the future, is there

1491
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,000
a list that can be put on for your book?

1492
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,800
Or where can they get that in less than a year?

1493
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,400
Because I want to sign copy if that's possible, please.

1494
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:16,560
Thanks.

1495
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,520
I think I can make that happen for you.

1496
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,920
Unfortunately, I don't have a list yet.

1497
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,360
Because we're still a little far out for that.

1498
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,640
But if you want to follow along, I'm super active on Instagram.

1499
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,840
So that's at Victoria A. Capek.

1500
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:38,960
And that's spelled V-I-K-T-O-R-I-A-A-C-A-P-E-K.

1501
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:40,600
I do post on TikTok still.

1502
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:41,920
Same username.

1503
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,040
I have a website.

1504
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,320
Always feel free to hit me up.

1505
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,520
Seriously, do exactly what Ranger did.

1506
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:48,640
And just reach out.

1507
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,520
Because I love talking to people, clearly.

1508
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:52,760
And I can talk forever.

1509
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,760
So yeah, follow along.

1510
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,880
And if you want to learn about the book, stay tuned for that.

1511
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,640
More information will be coming out,

1512
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:04,280
hopefully, in the next three months or so.

1513
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:04,800
I love it.

1514
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,280
And I'll be sure to share on my socials as well as soon as I

1515
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,080
see what is going on.

1516
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,440
And I'll probably also put something in my email list

1517
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:13,560
to my subscribers once they come out.

1518
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:15,680
And all these different things, I

1519
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,680
can't wait to see what is on the horizon for you

1520
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,840
with your fiance, with Dear Reader Lit, hairpins,

1521
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:21,760
and everything else.

1522
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,200
So thank you so much.

1523
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:24,640
And for other podcasters listening,

1524
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,360
Victoria is such a fantastic guest.

1525
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,240
I feel like this was just such a small piece of what she

1526
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:29,160
could have talked about.

1527
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,320
So I'm going to share it with people in my podcasting groups

1528
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:33,120
too.

1529
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:34,560
But thank you, Victoria.

1530
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,120
And all of her information will be down in the show notes.

1531
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:38,800
And for everybody still listening,

1532
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,680
thank you so much for your time and your attention

1533
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,400
and for taking a part out of your life

1534
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,960
to listen to parts of our life as well.

1535
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,080
And just as my constant reminder for everybody,

1536
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:50,960
be sure that you share this with somebody else

1537
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,360
that it may resonate with.

1538
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,200
That is the best way for us to grow

1539
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,360
as a podcast, as a community.

1540
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,920
I super appreciate all of your time.

1541
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,280
And remember, when it comes to your life,

1542
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,520
the best is yet to come as long as you

1543
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,360
are willing to make the decision to never peek, never quit,

1544
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:08,600
and never settle.

1545
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:29,640
Thank you, and I'll see you guys next week.