Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening everybody.
And welcome to today's episode of the NeverPeak Project Podcast.
I'm your host, Coach Ranger.
And in today's episode, we're going to kick it back a little bit to somebody that
I met while I was walking across the country.
As most of you know, I made my cross country trek from South Carolina all the
way back to California between March and August of 2024, and right around the
middle of that, I was in the middle of Arkansas and Arkansas was one of those
states that I was really worried about going into it because I had zero connections.
Basically from Mississippi all the way to Oklahoma, I kind of just felt like I was
alone, I didn't have anybody to reach out to, I figured that if I got in trouble, I
would just have to start screaming until a cow came and helped me or something.
But thankfully, due to the power of social media and begging for help on the internet,
I was able to find a ton of people that were willing to help out and support and
just be a fantastic resource while I was going through the state, which eventually
led to the Little Rock area being one of my favorite cities that I walked through
on the entire journey.
During my little adventure into Arkansas or through Little Rock, I passed through
North Little Rock.
And at the time I thought that North Little Rock was just a segment of Little
Rock and not its own separate city.
My bad.
And I made a post in one of the groups asking for help and assistance, just kind
of letting people know what I was doing, trying to get connected with local
podcasters or news people.
And this guy that just kind of reached out to me said, Hey, I have a podcast,
let them talk to you, saw that you have your own.
Do you want to meet up?
I'm kind of just paraphrasing there.
It was a lot more eloquent, but I ended up meeting with him and now several months
later, he is a guest on our podcast.
So I'd like to welcome to our show, Mr.
Ty King.
Ty, how's it going?
It's going pretty well.
How are you?
Doing well.
I super appreciate you finally getting a chance to talk to you.
I know I reached out a while ago and it was like smack dab in the middle of one
of your busy seasons.
So my apology on that end, but I'm glad that we were finally able to make it
happen.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
One of the busy seasons.
I like how you put that.
One of the busy, I mean, I mean, just seeing what you guys have going on with the
multiple different projects and everything, it's definitely admirable.
But I could sit here and talk a little bit about how you are the CEO of the only
nonprofit for podcasters in the US or all the amazing things you do to support
creators.
But I just want to kind of pass the rings off to you and kind of let you have the
chance to explain who you are, what you do and what are your intentions for
today's episode.
Yeah, for sure.
So I'm Ty King, I am the executive director and founder of the Arkansas
podcast collaborative.
And what that is, is a nonprofit organization that exists for podcasters.
So we're the only 501 C3 nonprofit organization, meaning that we give free
resources for people who either want to start a podcast or they want to grow
their podcasts.
And a lot of times that involves events that involves coaching, that involves
getting access to grant money to start a project.
And so there's lots of different things that we reach out to, you know, in order
to offer more value for people that would normally cost them thousands of dollars
is actually, you know, free or just a membership with us.
And so, yeah, we are heavily invested in not just Arkansas, but the entire country
and taking advantage of where podcasting has gone in the past few years, but also
like, especially this year, it has really blown up and it won't go anywhere next
year.
Like next year is going to be increased in the amount of, well, we can get into
it more, but the amount of ways that podcasts are being used in the future is
only going to grow.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
And I feel like just kind of jumping straight into the growth of podcasts.
What, what has led to the explosion of podcasts?
I feel like everybody now it's not, you know, what's your favorite song or
artists?
It's almost like what podcast do you listen to is one of the first questions.
So like what's, what's prompted that explosion of content?
So I can't, I can't just put my finger on one particular thing that does it, but
it's, it's kind of like, well, why are newspapers dying out and why are there
not as many people that are watching, you know, according to the Nielsen ratings,
why are not as many people watching TV as they used to?
Well, it's because we have all these different devices that are on us
completely all the time that we can actually get her get access to news and
information and opinions from anywhere around the world that we want to add
any time you want to on the platform that we choose.
And so podcasting is just a universal tool, you know, especially the more it
gets into video, like we're recording on Riverside right now through video.
And this is going to be able to, you're going to be able to use this as a short
clips on Tik TOK and you know, YouTube shorts and reels on Facebook and
Instagram, and you can put this out on all the podcast platforms and there's
the, but it has a full video on YouTube.
And so like, there's so many different ways that people can consume this.
And it reaches more people more so than it would maybe if you had a TV show on
a local broadcasting channel, right?
I mean, not as many views, but there's definitely something in the way that
people are using podcasts.
Now there has been, there have been several studies that came out recently
about how, how do people consume their news?
Of course, this has been a big year for news, right?
Especially with the presidential election going on.
So news has been extremely important.
So where people get their news has also been extremely important as well.
So all of these, uh, pollsters and people who do these studies, you know, they
ask people, where are you getting their news?
And most Americans are getting their news off of Tik TOK or from podcasts
or from videos on YouTube.
They're not, they're naming like the name, name, name, name, name, name,
like news channels, fifth, sixth, seventh down the row, right?
And if they're seeing them, they're usually from clips online.
So, um, there's a reason why both of the presidential campaigns used podcasting
as part of their plan, part of their campaign plan.
They went on Joe Rogan.
They went on, uh, call her daddy two of the biggest podcasts that
exists out there in the world.
Um, and then there were several others that got just kind of thrown in the mix
on that you, you and I have probably never heard of before in our lives, but
you know, they decided to go on those podcasts and talk about it.
So I think that a lot of people are seeing that and seeing the value in that
and the effect that it had, um, without getting into a politics or anything
like that, we'll steer away from it, but they do see the value in, you know,
going onto these shows and being able to reach out to these demographics
and, you know, uh, markets that already exist.
The people who are already listening to these shows, right?
So that's the perfect place to go.
You want to go where the people are.
If there's a crowd of people standing, you know, in a town square, and those
are the people you want to talk to, it makes sense that you would just set up
your soapbox stand on stage and you would address that crowd.
Right.
So that's how podcasting is.
They've already built that crowd for you.
It's there for you to just get on and talk on the microphone and it's super relaxed.
Like we're having a relaxed conversation here.
You know, there's nothing formal about it.
I didn't have to memorize a script and, uh, you know, we're, we're having
honest conversations and you're getting more of the personality that way.
Yeah.
And that's what I kind of noticed too about, I mean, what Trump went on,
like Theo Vaughn, Joe Rogan, Collard, like, uh, Harris went on Collard.
That's what I thought was so interesting.
It was very humanizing, um, in those, like what you're just now saying,
that those relaxed, more off the cuff conversations, as opposed to a very
stiff formalized conversation reading off a teleprompter.
So when it comes to podcasting, can you kind of just talk a little bit about like
how you got so interested in like growing podcasts and supporting podcasters?
Like, what is your story?
How did you go from, I mean, I don't even know where you started, I guess necessarily,
but like, what was that before podcasting for you?
Um, so I just got started on podcasts back before they were called podcasts.
Uh, so before it was cool.
Now, uh, back in the early 2000s, I listened to podcasts.
They were MP3 files actually originally that you had to download off of people's
websites and you just had to know that they existed to even know that they existed.
Um, so you go to those people's websites, you download the MP3 file, put it on your
MP3 player, and then you could listen to the show or just listen to it on your computer.
Um, so I was enthralled with like audio storytelling because my grandparents had
given me tapes of like old radio plays, like the original like Twilight Zone run and the
shadow, uh, and, uh, wore the worlds and I wore those out.
And so I just loved it.
How like it was so I love movies, but like audio storytelling to me, like it allowed
my imagination to like fill in so much of what they, what they weren't showing me.
They were telling me rather than showing me and my mind was doing the rest of the
work and I was like, this is awesome.
So I was hooked on it from then, but.
Uh, in 2018, I started my first podcast as a networking tool, uh, because I also owned
a marketing business.
And so there was some, you know, C-level executives that I just couldn't get in the
door of to talk or have a conversation with no matter how high up in the local chamber
of commerce I was getting.
And so I started the podcast, invited them on as guests and didn't, uh, disclose the
information that I had zero listeners, but it worked beautifully.
And they were flattered that I had asked them to be a guest and they came on the show
and now I've got one-on-one time with them and it's recorded so I can go back in the
conversation and be able to go over the things that they talked about and learn from that.
And what are some of the moves that they made that I can actually approve, you know,
apply to myself and move right now.
So it kind of connected me into their network.
And of course they share the show with their friends.
Hey, I was on this podcast and I was like, I'm going to go back to the show.
And I was like, I'm going to go back to the podcast and, uh, so it kind of introduces
you to their whole, their whole world.
And then in about four years later, I was being honored by the cystic fibrosis foundation
for what's called the finest honoree.
And that is an honor that they give to a young entrepreneur who's doing a lot of
volunteerism with nonprofit organizations.
And so in return, I wanted to do some fundraising for them.
And I did a little few, some small coffee shop events and everything were like portion
of the cells.
It goes back to the organization, but like it really wasn't making a dent in the amount
that I wanted to raise.
And so I came up with the first podcast event for Arkansas, which is called our cast.
And, um, it's the first podcast festival, but it's actually just the first podcast
event period.
I looked it up and like, apparently there had never been one and I was kind of surprised,
but there had never been a period, not a live podcast recording, nothing like that.
And that happens in states around us all the time.
So it was like, okay.
Uh, so it was just one night where I pulled in speakers from all over the state.
They were in across, you know, broad categories, everything from, you know, traveling
musicians to people that, uh, are with the game and fish commission and to, uh, you
know, different podcasts that are being produced all over the place.
Um, and sort of introducing them and go lay them, you know, talk on panels about how
do they create their content, really getting the conversation started.
Cause I saw that there was momentum.
There's, there's, you know, a lot of open opportunity, I would say for states like
Arkansas, you know, to jump on because the barrier to entry to podcasting is so low
right now.
Like you don't have to know how to use a very complicated microphone or audio
interface or cameras or any of that stuff.
Like you don't have to have any of that to get started.
Like if you've got a phone in your pocket, you've got a studio to start with.
And so I really wanted to push them ahead of the curve because historically, you
know, I'd looked it up and, uh, Arkansas always waits around a hundred years,
literally after a medium is created before it starts creating its own version
of that medium.
So that happened with newspapers and TV and radio, uh, magazines.
And so anytime one of those things is created, they always let everybody else
go first and then they're last at the party.
And by that time, you know, it's just well-worn territory.
And that's kind of how like trends and things go around this area too.
So like something where you're at in California, right?
So by the time that reaches here and becomes a trend, you guys are already
over it and onto the next thing, two steps, two steps ahead.
Right.
Um, so there's no reason for us not to be able to create, we have the creative
minds, we've got plenty of great colleges that are here that are creating,
you know, great creative minds, but they always encourage them to go somewhere
else for a job, which kind of doesn't make any sense and shoots ourselves in
the foot.
But, you know, the state is also home to three of the biggest, you know,
organizations in the world, which is, you know, JB Hunt, Tyson and Walmart,
of course, which owns so many other things.
Um, and then Walmart just did a call to everybody that was working from home,
from across the country.
And they said, if you want to continue working for Walmart, you
are going to have to move to one of the two locations of our headquarters.
And of course, the main one is being right here in Arkansas.
And so that has brought in a huge influx and a huge, uh, population increase
from people across the United States who are moving here now, which of course,
changes the whole, you know, the whole culture of the States and brings a whole
new conversation, but also brings in more expertise and so more people to learn
from.
Um, so after that first event that we had back in 2022, I believe it was, we
kept getting asked about, you know, how do I start a podcast?
And so, uh, I had the idea to start the first, you know, nonprofit organization
because that doesn't exist.
Because if people want to have those answers of how do I start a podcast,
how do I, you know, uh, start my first show or plan who my guests are, or how
often I'm going to record or figure out what equipment I need.
Like normally you would have to go to a company and pay thousands of dollars.
And then you may not even end up making your show after that.
And so now you're, you've just paid thousands of dollars for nothing.
Um, you've got that knowledge, but I mean, like, what are you going to do with
it if you don't do it?
Show.
And so making, since the technology and everything is, is low barrier to entry,
it stands to reason that there should be a service like what we're providing,
which is low barrier to entry as well, where it's at no matter what your income
level is, we're able to help you, you know, get your show started.
And so, uh, you know, the power of podcasting has so many different, there's
so many aspects to it where it's just, you know, whether it's, you're something
to add to somebody's value or add value to somebody's life, whether it is sharing
what your knowledge is or sharing a funny story, making somebody laugh, you
know, I mean, or letting people know that they're not the only ones that are
experiencing a subject or like to raise awareness of something.
But I've also seen them actually get presidential pardons for people for crimes
that were, you know, that they were wrongfully committed for.
And, uh, so yeah, it's pretty insane, uh, the, the power of what, you know, just
that one medium has.
So anyways, we wanted to make sure that that was being pushed and, you know,
respected most of all too, because like, it was not just like you got a blog on
the, on the internet, you know what I mean?
As long as people are taking it seriously and they're growing with their shows,
then the people that are like, that would be sponsors or that would benefit from
being a guest on these shows or from, you know, whatever it is, uh, pushing it or
making it their own, then that they see the value in that.
So we started the first nonprofit 501 C three, and then, uh, we are three years
and now we just had our third year of the our cast podcast festival where we
bring in people from all over the country.
Uh, we come from Dallas and Seattle and just like this year has been pretty crazy.
And this is the first year, you know, we've seen a lot of growth because where
the first year was Arkansas was like, people were still trying to figure out how
they can create the medium, right?
What their relationship is to podcasting.
Second year, uh, we had more people that had started their shows because they had
gone to that first year's event, which is great.
And then we were going across the state and doing all these speaking
engagements at workshops.
And so really just trying to, it's kind of like when you open your poll for the
first time of the year is what I think about it is.
I mean, you throw the shock out there, the chlorine to, uh, you know, sort of
get everything going.
That's how I kind of felt like we were doing last year.
And then this year there were so many people that are creating amazing shows
and even, you know, I won awards.
And so it was, it's pretty incredible to be, you know, a part of all of that.
And I keep talking and I can just keep talking forever.
You can tell me to tell me,
Oh, you're good. No, you're good.
I think that that's like such a fantastic, like the, the, the Genesis,
the impact, the why, the problem, like you're, you're really just
hitting all of the points.
It's almost like you've done a million interviews or you know how to be a good
guest. And so when it, when it comes to these different tools, it was something
that I really want to like highlight that you said is just that aspect of the
barrier to entry is pretty low as it already is you, you, that's what I told
people also, cause I've, I've had people ask me how to start a podcast and I'm
like, I have not that many downloads.
You know, I'm also comparing myself to the big guys, right?
But it's like, I'm just a few steps further than you, but like I've told
people the same thing that you said.
I'm like, take out your phone, record a video and upload it.
Now you have a podcast, right?
Like it's that's what it is.
So when it, when it comes to the services that you provide with,
with your nonprofit, is that, and just to clarify again, is that just for
Arkansas folks or kind of people all over, but with an emphasis on Arkansas?
No. So it's yeah, it's for everyone across the United States.
I, you know, we're still a fairly new and running a nonprofit organization.
So, you know, three years in, I'm still not sure if I can cross, you know,
country lines, but yeah, we're definitely, we can definitely cross the state lines.
So, you know, we help, you know, podcasters everywhere from LA to New York.
And actually one of the things that we've been able to accomplish this year is
getting grants for podcasters, you know, from across the country.
And so we've got, uh, Kate, uh, Downey from, you know, Los Angeles, we got her
a $75,000, um, grant for her podcast.
Uh, and it's from an organization in New York, but they want that
organization wants a nonprofit fiscal partner to be in between.
Well, that's where we see our role.
You know, we were already nonprofit and plus our whole thing is podcasting.
So we sit right there in the middle and we're just making sure that every dollar
that she proposed to the organization goes where it needs to go and that she's
being responsible with it.
And what we try to do is get people from the area of the flyover States hired to
be on these teams.
Once we get you the grant money, that's great, but we would love if you would
have to, you know, if you would try to hire some, some of our talent from here,
give it a shot, you know what I mean?
We're, we're a lot cheaper than you're going to find in LA for one.
Uh, but also the talent is, is, is tremendous.
It's just being overlooked.
You know what I mean?
And they're being told that they have to go to other parts of the country to
even get hired with the nonprofit, the people that are, I'm assuming it's
editors and sound designers and remixers and producers, like all these different
people, if you're working with them, they're, they're going to be solid.
They're also inclined and kind of held accountable to having high quality and
standards so that you guys look good.
Uh, and I really liked that, that whole idea of the buffer that, Hey, if I, as a
podcaster and working with Ty and his team, there's that extra layer of
accountability, which is fantastic because it's not just that
accountability for the government folks giving you the grant.
It's also like, great.
Now what do I do with that?
How do I not screw this up?
How do I actually use this to the betterment of like, I guess, of
society or the project itself?
So like what, when it comes to those kinds of grants, like, is it mostly
around like, um, like social or environmental causes, or is it really
does any category can apply for them?
Like what, what focuses have a higher chance almost, or is that even a good
question, like, what, what are the things that you guys are doing to
make it a good question?
So, no, that's a great question.
Yeah.
And it's something that a lot of people ask.
Um, so there are basically grants for everything.
I mean, you think of it, there's a grant for it.
There are hundreds of thousands of organizations that exist across the
United States and every single one of them has a mission and vision, and
they're looking for projects to help them move the needle on that
mission and vision.
Right.
So the, there are lots of different, uh, you know, criteria for, for grants
whereas like some of them are, you know, by just random organizations, um, that
are out there that have a specific purpose.
Uh, but they're only seasonal to where like you, like I'm looking at one for
with somebody earlier today where the grant, you have to send a letter of
intent between October and January, you know, and so it'll give you specific
times when you can apply for these grants or the different steps of these
grants, but some of them with the ones we've had the greatest, you know, uh,
greatest success with are called sandbox grants.
And they're just basically open 24 seven, you know, and year round where
you, they're just looking for proposals on projects that would help them move
the needle on that mission and vision.
And so it stands to reason, if you, if you are, uh, an experienced
podcaster, let's say that you've got a few episodes under your belts and you,
but you're, you have, you are an expert in a certain field, right?
Uh, I'll take, you know, the person I was meeting with earlier today as an
example, so she is an expert in helping, uh, entrepreneurs grow their reach
through email listings and different approaches of growing their team, hitting
that growth level.
And so there's absolutely podcast or grants out there for that, but they're
not asking for podcast projects.
And so these grants very rarely, where you ever find a grant out of the
hundreds of thousands out there that exists that specifically say that
they're looking for a podcast and that's why a lot of podcasters don't
apply for them.
They're constantly chasing after these sponsorships, which are great.
And sponsorships do work.
You know, that's one way to monetize your, your podcasts.
And then there's also, you know, Spotify has got new ways that you can monetize
now, um, there's absolutely, you know, YouTube and, uh, you know, your
Tik TOK clips and everything.
There's ways to make money off of your podcast.
And that's great.
And so what I see grant money as is kind of like when you're starting a
business, you need that initial, you know, injection of cash, right?
And so that's what the grant is for is to help you get a team.
It pays the bills of your team.
You know, um, if you're going to get an editor or a sound designer or a
marketer, like it pays the way for all of that to get started, which is great.
And then helps you find new ways to get monetized past that point after those,
you know, whatever nine episodes, whatever it was that you proposed, it's
not a perpetual thing.
You have to have a tight little package of saying this podcast is going to be
about this.
This is the target market that we're going after.
This is the target market that I also already have that I already have their
attention because I already have, you know, either expertise in that field or
I already have another podcast that I'm doing that specifically aims at that,
you know, that group of people.
And it's going to be, you know, nine, 10, 12, 20 episodes, whatever, whatever,
how many episodes you want to offer for that amount that it really depends on
what they're going to give you in return.
Like I said, for 75,000, that would be great for, you know, maybe eight, eight
or nine episodes.
Um, but there are grants all the way up to the ones we were looking at today,
which is, you know, 200,000 when 200,000 would, you know, get you probably 20,
maybe 22 episodes for your season.
Um, and so, uh, yeah, there's just a lot of criteria of, uh, I have to look at
and see how many are out there, which ones, you know, 50 category that I'm
trying to go after and then deciding which ones do we want to, you know,
commit time to that we're actually going to write a letter of intent and then
apply for.
I think I have no idea how much an episode is actually worth because I
would record an episode for a sponsor right now for like 50 bucks.
That is insane.
Kind of hearing the difference, like how, when you're in like the bigger leagues
or as things kind of go on and develop, like what this episode is actually
potentially worth.
That's so interesting.
Like how it, when it comes to like the, like, I don't know, like the 200 grant,
$200,000 grant for the example you gave of like 20 something episodes.
Is that just all the costs that's kind of divvied out to everybody that's
involved?
Like, how does it work with the podcaster themselves with getting part of
that?
Like, how does that work?
So you, you have to submit a budget sheet where it basically breaks down to the
dollar of how much you're going to spend of that, you know, that money and
where's it going to go.
And that's everything.
Like it, it's down to the dollar of like, okay, well, if your editor that
you're looking at told you that they charge this much per hour, how many
hours are they actually going to have to work in order to, you know, it's like
we're prepaying.
We're trying to figure out the expenses for that.
But then also if you're going to do any kind of marketing, right, if you're
going to print off a flyer and hang it in the coffee shop, well, how much did
that paper and ink cost you?
And so it's like you get down to the wire on love, like what to the penny,
you know, how much are you spending it?
Where are you going to spend it?
And really like when you're applying for a grant, you know, they'll say that
they it's available for up to this amount.
And then so there'll be a range.
There won't be a, you know, just only this dollar amount.
So it might be from, let's say 120 to 200,000, right?
Let's see if that's the grant that's available.
Then you want to figure out a mid range in there of saying, okay, well, how
much could I get out of here?
And then how much could I stretch it?
You know what I mean?
If I, if I apply for $150,000, what do my episodes break down as?
And it might be helpful just to start with, you know, your total run of
that whole season.
What does this whole season going to cost?
Okay.
Well, how much would I have to spend on editors?
Okay.
Well, how much would I have to spend on myself?
Well, how much would I have to spend on travel or gas or lodging or all these
different things?
And then you have to break those down to per episode.
Um, and that's going to vary for you because it might be like what we're
doing right now, the talking heads where we're just, you know, interview form.
Uh, you may not even have to travel anywhere.
You're in California right now and I'm in Arkansas.
We're talking.
Um, but there might be, you know, an opportunity to go and you travel to
Ohio to go meet this expert and whatever it is that you need to interview them
for.
And so you want to include those, that travel cost and also, you know, like I
said, you definitely want to unfold marketing and whatever your editors are
too.
You know, that's why it's kind of beneficial to work with us because of,
you know, we, we, we can provide, you know, editors and, and mixers and sound
designers and all that stuff.
And it's going to cost you far less, you know, going through us than it would
through going through LA, right?
Cause the cost of living down here is so much less than it is in a lot of other
states that are on the coast.
Um, but then, you know, the, like I said, the creativity and the, you know, the
creators are here.
Frost, I know you and I have discussed this before for my podcast and I, I, I
think that that is something that is so valuable because like the thing that
you're saying right now, like, oh, editors and sound design and all these
different things.
Like I have no idea how much this, those would actually cost.
And I think that's another great thing that like the value that you guys provide
is, you know, what all that is, you know, what's realistic.
I'm sure you guys can kind of like soundboard things off of each other.
Um, and kind of actually figure out what that would look like and what's realistic
budget wise.
So that's, that's, that's incredible.
That's so for sure.
Yeah.
Things that you would never think of.
And I was hoping to do this, that part after we talk a little bit more about
like, how does kind of start a podcast.
And like, if somebody is like right now wanting to start something, you know,
they've been seeing all the growth, the podcast, you know, call her daddy, um,
Theo Vaughn, the Joe Rogan's, uh, Chris Williamson, like all these, I'm just
just the listening to people that I listen to.
But like all these different podcasters, like what would you say is the most
important thing other than pull out your phone?
Like what, what, what separates people that kind of just do the one episode and
then leave versus they do the first episode and they at least stick around
for a dozen or so episodes.
Most important thing is to know who you're making the show for.
So as long as you have somebody in mind that you're making your episodes for,
you know, that's kind of a good motivator because you're like, oh, this
person needs to hear this, whether it's a real person and you have in mind or
somebody that's a fake person, you have in mind, uh, a lot of the most successful
shows, you know, the show runners that I've talked to, they said that they
create an avatar in their mind of like the perfect listener.
It's not just a demographic.
It's somebody that they specifically came up with.
It's, you know, uh, his name is Tom and he switched majors in, in, uh, college
and ended up not even using his degree for something.
He eats pizza from this place down the street on Tuesdays and he has dreams of
becoming this and that, you know, like there's a full backstory of this
person that doesn't exist, but you know, just because that is a fictional
character that they created doesn't mean there aren't Tom's out there in the
world that can really relate in one way or another.
Right.
And so as long as you're making your show for that person, um, I think that'll
keep you motivated to, to keep going.
Um, yeah, that's the past two or three different episodes because, uh, you have
this person that's invested that they depend on you to make this show.
You're their favorite show.
They love to listen to you.
Uh, and as long as you're keeping that in mind, yeah, I think it's, it's
a good movie and it helps you stay on track too, because then, you know, like,
what, what do I need to be presenting?
What information am I supposed to be giving out here?
You know, I mean, what would resonate?
Is it being jokey?
Is it being, you know, dry or is it, you know, having a cohost?
And so there's a lot of different things to just think about.
Yeah.
And that's something that I've been kind of doing with my episodes is I kind of
like create like an avatar for each episode, especially with the guests.
It's kind of like a thing that like, okay, this is the person we're making this for.
This is how I kind of want to structure my questions.
These are how I want to focus and something that I have to do to get good
at this, this creating the avatar aspect you thought of was creating almost like
a fake business.
So I have a side Instagram page called South of SF and the idea behind it is,
you know, whenever I go anywhere south of San Francisco, I take pictures or videos
like outdoorsy and post it.
And for me, I was like, okay, who would be my target demographic for that?
It would be Nala and Adam.
You know, Adam is a 25 year old outdoor enthusiast.
He was an Eagle Scout and Nala, she was getting into it until her mid 20s.
But now she goes to REI, she shops at Patagonia.
She has the fancy water bottle, right?
So like, I think that's really in line with what you're saying there is like
practice coming up with these people.
And I use AI and chat GPT a lot to do it too, because it adds you those details
and then you can go in there and say, I don't know so much about this part, but
I'll kind of edit this out.
So I think there's so many tools that we can use to kind of create those profiles
for people.
So I'm glad that you touched on that for sure.
Perfect.
And another question I want to kind of ask you was like, what separates those
major podcasts, like the big ones that we kind of think when we think of podcasts
like the Joe Rogan, etc, from other podcasts?
And I kind of want to make a jab at it that it sounds like it's being clear on
who it's being made for consistency.
Like what other like what what separates those bigger podcasts from the ones
that are just a little bit below it?
What separates it?
Well, there's a big pay gap.
So, of course, for sure, the top, so the top, the top podcast right now, Joe
Rogan's number one, of course, and so the amount that he's making is almost
almost completely done because that exclusivity deal that he signed to
Spotify that has since relapsed, but it garnered a lot of attention and it
guarded a lot of listeners, which means that advertisers want to advertise with
him and, you know, of course, it just carries on from there.
Call Her Daddy is a step down from the amount that he's earning.
But there's every bit of opportunity for her to overtake him in the next two or
three years.
Below them, number three, there's a big drop off until the number three
podcast.
And it's just there's something with the podcast itself, like the way people
measure success, right?
And so your success is kind of different the way that you measure your podcast.
And so you can't just measure it by, oh, am I making Joe Rogan money or do I
have Joe Rogan numbers?
It's like, okay, well, if you're a business that has a podcast, are you
getting more customers or clients because of this?
Are you more leads?
Or if you're a nonprofit with a podcast, are you getting more awareness out
there and more volunteers or more donations?
If you're an individual that is just trying to create awareness or create
entertainment value, are you getting more?
Are you getting invited to be speakers at events?
Are you getting more connections with better guests that are coming on?
Are you getting sponsored by better people all the time?
So there's different ways of measuring your podcast.
Dave Jackson put it to me last year that you can be a podcast about
miniature Shetland ponies, right?
And so there's probably not a whole lot of enthusiasts for that.
But if you've got those 50 people in the world that are
miniature Shetland pony enthusiasts that are listening to your podcast,
and you've only got 50 listeners and it's just them, you've got that
whole market cornered, right?
So you've got a monopoly on that.
And so that's hugely beneficial.
Now you've got their ear to sell a product or whatever it is that you
want to, or maybe just give them information about what it is that you
are trying to prove to them.
There's tons and tons and tons of ways of measuring your podcast.
And I've seen more NPR stations that are actively seeking out podcasts
to put on the air for their shows or for their broadcasts as well.
So that might be an extra opportunity is to be able to expand your
listenership or the people that are consuming your show by also making it
a radio show.
So anyways, there's just so many tons of different ways to measure success.
Yeah, and I think that's kind of, I think you said almost exactly what I
kind of wanted you to say was it's about really defining what your goal is.
And I think that's really just a big thing with this whole episode so far is
define what your goal is, define who your listener is, like define why
you're doing this in the first place.
Whether it's like you said to drive sales, get donations, kind of position
yourself as an expert.
Another piece that I kind of got was kind of use your podcast to be the
best student possible.
Like when I was walking across the country, that was a big thing that I was
doing for my podcast for was to document the stories, learn from the
people that I was meeting and just kind of provide a space that while I was
learning from those people that I could share it with those that resonate with
that message or resonate with the walk in general.
So I think that that is very, very, no, like pivotal cornerstone to success in
anything, but specifically with the podcast.
And when it comes to the resources that you guys provide, I guess from like low
touch to high touch, like if people go to your website, like what kind of
resources can they kind of find when it comes to podcasting, starting, growing,
getting going, figuring out the next steps all the way up to full on we are
working with you to get a grant or grow or et cetera.
Yeah.
So, uh, on our website, you know, there is a database of all the podcasts that
we, we know about and that have been submitted to us or that we found out in
the wild, there's a huge database of all the shows that we know of that are
being created in the state of Arkansas.
So if anybody's interested, you can divide that up by category, look at
what, what shows are here.
Um, but also there's a calendar of events where we will list all the
festival dates, but also if we're going to be speaking anywhere else, or if
there's another podcast events in the area, you know, that people need to be
aware of, they can go there and get that listed, but also, um, so we have a
membership that would be rolling out, you know, for 2025, we kind of soft,
uh, soft launched it this year, but it'll be open full, full launching next year
to where people can become members of the Arkansas podcast collaborative.
And, uh, it opens it up to where we can actually start working with them to try
to get them the grants, because this does take a lot of time and working with
them, um, and, you know, a lot of guidance.
And so like, you know, obviously we have to be sustainable in order to do that.
Um, and so, uh, you know, it's something that we love, but yeah, at the same
time we've got to, it's just the world we live in where we have to have, you
know, some funding to work with.
So they can pay for the, the vendors and the, uh, you know, uh, the, keep the
lights on, you know, the rent and all the, anyways, all the different things
that we have to pay for.
But, um, yeah, also there's, with our Patreon, we record all of our, uh,
our cast podcast festival events.
We record each speaker session and then we release it on our Patreon page where
people can get it as low as $5 and they get, you know, all those sessions where
they can go back and, you know, watch the podcast and, you know, watch the
podcast, you know, all those sessions where they can go back and watch those
videos over and over.
Um, yeah, there's just a ton of stuff.
It's, it's hard to just list the, all the different things that we do.
So there's in-person stuff.
If you want that there's online stuff, if you want that, and there are plenty
of opportunities and we're working on a system where we can actually match
guests with hosts of podcasts so that if, uh, somebody who is looking to be a
guest, they can put their expertise up there or whatever they want to be
interviewed for.
And then also the same thing for shows that are looking for, actively looking
for guests in certain areas.
That's so cool.
I feel like that's just like such a, a clear, like, you know, the database or
library of options and support that you guys offer.
I mean, I was just kind of like poking around your, your website earlier and
a little bit right now, cause I didn't, I didn't catch the directory part
earlier, but that's so, I don't know.
That's so cool that you guys are able to offer that.
Just that specificity of focus I think is something that people can even kind
of take away from going through your guys' website and see what you're doing.
But now I think it's about time that we kind of move into our Q and A section,
but I want to ask you a question about a question first.
What is the most common question you get asked about podcasts from people either
just starting or they already have their podcast?
And what is your answer to that question?
Yeah.
And the most common question we get is I think that I have a show that I want to do,
but I'm not sure how to do it.
And usually it's with us asking them several questions in return.
Okay. Well, what is your show about?
Okay. Well, why do you want to make it?
Well, what's stopping you from doing it?
And then it gets down to it's themselves, like the lowest, the barrier to entry to
them creating the show is themselves because they feel like they don't have anything to
offer or there's not going to be an audience for them.
Or that, you know, they don't have the technical expertise and I'm like, well, the barrier to
entry has never been lower as we've talked about several times.
If you've got a phone in your pocket, you've got a studio.
Okay. And so as far as like providing value, I always tell people you have a beginning,
a middle and an ending like nobody else does.
You're a unique individual that has something to share.
Everybody stands to learn something from everyone else.
And whether that's, you know, information or a shared experience, or even a
or even like you're enlightening or making somebody laugh, you know, to brighten up
their day a little bit.
Like you're, you've got something to add to value, you know?
And so the only person stopping you from creating your show is you don't let that intimidate you.
You've got to just start somewhere and you will get better.
If you go back and listen to the first episode of anybody that's made 250 episodes, go back
and listen to that first episode and see how bad it is compared to the 250 with, you know
what I mean? But they had to, they had to start somewhere.
Exactly.
I think that's, that's, that's been something that has been helpful for me.
It's scrolling all the way down in the audio feed of a couple of my favorite podcasts
and like watching or listening to them and just realizing, oh, they're human too.
They also make mistakes.
Their audio isn't as crisp.
Their video kind of sucks.
They're all over the place.
I, I can have crappy video.
I could have bad audio.
I could be all over the place, you know?
Like I can, I can also start.
So I think that's, that's perfect.
So thank you for answering that one.
And we do have a couple of questions.
So the very first question that we have comes from Holly and Holly asks,
how do you keep things and topics fresh on a podcast?
Another question, what is the best way to drive or select topics?
Okay.
So the first part of, of like how to keep it fresh, right?
You've got to present new information.
I mean, if, if you're talking about for your current subscribers, let's say they subscribe
during your podcast episode five, but they're still hanging on for your episode 20th.
I think, you know, right.
So, and if you're not talking about anything new, you're kind of just rehashing the same
information.
It's kind of hard to keep anybody's attention.
Like, I don't know if you've ever heard anybody like make a joke, but then they sell it two
times and you're like, all right.
And then they tell it three times and you're like, all right, this does, that's enough.
There's nothing wrong with going back over old information, but you've got to present
something new.
And if you've lost passion for that subject, then maybe you need to move on to talking
about something else or branch out to a different, you know, uh, arm of that, you know, that
thing.
Uh, I don't know, I have a specific example for you, but like, if you, you know, let's
say you talking about something in, in biology, then like you need to move on to something
else that kind of excites you with like, what's the link between science and this.
Um, yeah, that's, it's, it's interesting, but like, if you're, if you're not excited
about the subject matter, then like, I don't know how you expect anybody else to, to feel
like the subject matter is fresh either.
So making sure you're excited about it, making sure you're presenting new information,
but also not alienating anybody that's a new listener because they may have just started
on your 20th episode and you may have rehashed that, you know, 50 million times, but as long
as you're combining new information with a little bit of the basics for people that
have just started and don't, don't make this mistake where people go like, okay,
if you haven't listened to my show before, this is what we talk about because that gets
old hat for the old listeners.
Just, just throw it in there casually.
Um, and you said picking topics, is that what we said?
Is that the other one?
And then, yeah, what is the best way to select topics?
To select topics.
I mean, what is your show about?
You know, uh, and you know, a lot of people will.
So it's complicated.
Like there's, there's, there's the opportunity to opportunistic.
It's like kind of your mindset.
So there's the opportunistic, you know, podcast that happened because
let's say something's hot right there at the moment, like this year, a lot of political
podcasts got started because of the presidential election, right?
And so it made sense because there was like, oh, these are easy views and listens like
and get, if I just start a show where it's about this big thing that's on everybody's mind.
Okay.
But then afterwards, your listenership might not be there.
Um, but then there's the show that I would recommend that is, it's kind of like getting
a tattoo, right?
You never want to get a tattoo of a band that you're into at the time because you're stuck
with it, you know, I don't care if you get a cover up or whatever, like it's still on
your body.
Right.
And so if the topic you pick is not something that you're just, you know, into for the
season, but it's something that can be evergreen.
Um, then absolutely go for that.
Uh, and if you're, if you're passionate about it and that they can be long standing
where you can see yourself in five years, still talking about that same thing.
Yeah.
That's how you absolutely want to pick your topics because it's gotta be something that,
you know, you have knowledge in, but also that you have passion in.
You can't just read an encyclopedia article on, you know, on your podcast and expect people
to be like, oh, this is great.
You've got to kind of be, they can tell that there's an energy and there's a passion behind
it in your voice.
When you talk, um, and the way that you present it, there's a reason why they're listening
to you and not just reading a Wikipedia article.
So that's absolutely how you would pick your topic.
Yeah.
And I also kind of want to like throw in a little bit of a, um, I don't know, a tip that
I've kind of learned over time is to document, not create.
That's been super helpful.
I don't know if you've heard that from, I don't know, Gary V says it and a few other
guys, but there's a podcast I used to listen to all the time during COVID called Tom's
Big Spiders.
And it's a whole podcast about tarantulas and tarantula care.
And that's when I was super into spiders.
I may still have a few of them, but it was like every episode that keeps just talking
about spiders and care.
But it's like, as you get into a topic and you're talking about what you're learning
and what you're noticing and what you're seeing, like there's so many different intricacies
that kind of come up over time.
Just on the surface, it's about spiders, but there's so many different categories and
different types and just like any other thing, kind of like what we were saying earlier,
like for your target demographic and your topic that you're making the podcast on,
there's a ton of different content, a ton of different conversations to be had.
So that was my little, I don't know, answer to the question too.
Um, and this next one is from, yeah, this next one is from Steel.
And this last couple of questions, there's two of them.
I'm going to ask the first one, then the second one I learned from last time.
Can you quickly go over what makes a great story and what are the qualities of a great
storyteller?
What makes a great story and then what are the qualities of great storyteller?
This is a much longer conversation and it's kind of philosophical.
And, but like, if you want to talk about like what has been seen and what has been proven
as a good storyteller, there's a thing.
I'm sure you've heard of it, but, uh, the, the hero's journey, right?
And so it's a path that you follow.
It's kind of cyclical in that, you know, a lot of Hollywood movies and books and some
of the best known stories that we have in the world, um, kind of followed this model
where it starts with your hero.
Your hero leaves home to go on a journey.
They meet a mentor.
They face adversity.
They fail at first.
They face adversity again.
They prevail.
They return home changed.
Right.
So that's the cycle that you kind of want to go with.
And so that's everything from Lord of the Rings to the matrix.
Tell me, like you name a movie that follows that, that, that pattern.
Um, for your podcasts, you kind of want to start somewhere with your, because this is
a human being that you're talking to.
If you're, if you're interviewing someone, right, this is a big assumption.
If we're doing like what we're doing right now, you asked me in the beginning, how did
you get started?
That was me leaving my home.
I tell you my whole journey of like what changed me, what I faced, what I felt at, where I
found success and how it is to lead to me being here where I'm changed and I'm more
knowledgeable and more prepared to help other people, you know, to start their podcast.
Right.
So the same thing when you're interviewing people, making sure that you start from a
point, you know, which is the probably the beginning pre their, whatever the profession
is.
Um, and then what happened?
Like, what's the interesting story there?
Like what happened to them?
When have they had a failure?
When, how did that help them to create their success to where they are now?
Or, you know, how are they climbing on their way up right now?
You know, so, um, it really depends on like what type of person you're, you're interviewing,
but that typically works for any situation.
Uh, one of the shows I produce is with people who are in recovery.
And so I talked to them trying to understand their journey, you know, of substance abuse.
And so like, it's easy to see where they failed and where they came up.
And, um, you know, if they're in recovery now, it's great, but they kind of have a
different pattern to where they didn't just return home, you know, changed.
There's still a daily battle that they have to go through.
And so they've kind of always fighting that adversity.
They're kind of stuck in that, that middle part over and over and over and over and over
again.
Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, making sure that, you know, you're being ethical as well
in your storytelling is a, is a huge thing that I don't think a lot of people consider,
especially in today's world, because we have, you know, we've got X and Twitter, you know,
with, and, uh, YouTube comments and like, I don't know if you've ever looked at any,
you have the comments on any of these videos or gone on X lately, but like there's,
there's a lot of negativity in the world, especially online.
It's easy to sit behind your phone or your keyboard and criticize people.
Um, so it's also easy to make, you know, click bait headlines or to make something to be way
more shocking and, you know, way overdone.
And these are human beings that you're dealing with.
You know what I mean?
If it's your, if it's somebody that's going to be talking on your show and you're
interviewing them about something that was traumatic, you don't want to kind of make them
part of the circus, you know, you want to be sensitive about that and tell them, hey,
you can share as much or as little as about this as you'd like to.
Um, but don't make a shocking headline.
You know what I mean?
Clear everything before with them before you post your episode, I would say.
Awesome.
No, I think, I think those are all fantastic tips.
And I've, I've looked a lot into the, the whole idea of the hero's journey.
Now that I'm kind of, you know, writing my book and trying to understand the elements of a good
story and how to kind of captivate people and bring them in.
So the, the second part of that question, you kind of answered it by thing, just for like a
more specific answer, what are the steps that we can take towards becoming better storytellers?
Steps to becoming better storytellers, I think, you know, is the step to become better at anything.
Look at what's already been done.
Consume as much of it as possible.
If you're trying to be a particular kind of storyteller, you know, where it is.
I don't see a lot of, I don't see a lot of people that are just creating like the talking head type
of podcast as just storytellers. Your, your, your job is kind of like, you know, we can laugh at
this because we're both podcast hosts, right? But like your job as a podcast host is to be the
dumbest person in the world. You've got to ask questions about everything so that your guests
can get, can give the answers and have time to talk about all their things that they know.
But you feel like, oh, what's that? Well, how do you explain this? Oh, well, what do you think
about? And so we don't really have strong opinions ourselves. And so we're always like, just kind of
constantly asking questions, but there are plenty of, you know, fictional story podcasting or there
was documentary podcasts, or there was lots of recounting of history or even, you know, there
are even the talking head ones like this that do the storytelling as far as like trying to draw out
that, that whole journey. But that was a long way of just saying that I think a good storyteller
knows that there has to be highs and there has to be lows, that there has to be something that
a human being, you know, went through because we can't look away from a car crash, right? And so
that's the whole thing. But we feel inspired, like the movies that meant stories that people
most resonate and like keeping their memory and think about before whenever they need inspiration
are the ones where somebody met adversity and they overcame it and rose up. And so
making sure you're having those arcs, making sure there's dips, there's highs, there's very lows,
but then they can back up and it gives hope, gives inspiration and people are automatically,
you know, drawn to that.
So it sounds like start looking at what other people are doing, figure it out, practice yourself
and just be ready for your own hero's journey.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You can't be a good painter by not seeing anybody else's paintings.
You know what I mean? If you had never seen a painting before, somebody just handed you a
canvas and some paints, you'd be like, what am I supposed to do with this? And like you can
smear it around, but like until you've seen other people do it, you're like, oh, and then you take
inspiration of how can you do that in your own way and make it unique?
Got to get your hands dirty to figure out how to grow a tomato. Can't just look at books all day.
Yeah, right. Perfect. Awesome. Ty, thank you so much for your time. I super appreciate you
sharing your magic with the listeners. If folks want to learn more about what you do and the
Arkansas Podcast Collaborative, where is the best way for us to find you?
Yeah, for sure. You just go to our website and it's arkansapodcasters.org and you can find access
to like all the things that we've mentioned here. You know, we're on all the social media platforms,
uh, most of them anyway. And so yeah, just follow us there. We have links to everything. I try to
make the website to be the Grand Central Station to where it's got links to just absolutely anything
you want to find about it. Perfect. Yeah. And I have poked around the website a little bit and it
is extremely easy to use. I mean, it's, it's pretty clear on where to go if you need help or
what you should be looking at. So thank you again, Ty, and thank you to everybody for listening today.
Uh, the typical YouTuber plug, please like and send and share and subscribe to the podcast.
Any way to help us, uh, push out this message. If you want to start a podcast or you know somebody
else that wants to start a podcast, send them Ty's way, uh, so that we can kind of all kind of get into
the collaborative, uh, so that we can all get into the collaborative creator space. And as always,
remember that the NeverPeak community is free until we hit 50 members. So go ahead and hit the
link in the description. And as always remember to never settle, never quit and never peek.
I'll see you guys next week.