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Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody and welcome to today's episode of the Never Peak Project podcast.

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Today we are live with one of our guests as we discuss dynamic aging for life and what that means for folks as they get older.

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In this episode of the project, we will be sitting down with Joan Virginia Allen from Dynamic Aging for Life to discuss the Never Peak mentality and its connection to aging.

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We'll dive into the wisdom and life experience that comes with age and how it can inspire a fresh approach to personal wellness and business success.

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Joan shares insights on maintaining vitality and purpose through life, breaking down age-related fears and redefining success at every stage.

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Tune in for a conversation that challenges stereotypes and aging.

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Tune in for a conversation that empowers... that empowers us.

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Tune in for a conversation that challenges stereotypes about aging and empowers lifelong learners to embrace new possibilities.

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Joan, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast.

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Thank you for inviting me, Ranger. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Of course, I'm excited to chat a little bit. This is a topic that you and I had discussed a little bit.

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I've looked at your blog on your social media. I've read some of the stories, but just for our listeners, can you give us a brief rundown of who you are,

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what dynamic aging really is, and a little bit of what your intention for today's episode is?

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Well, my intention for today's episode is to share how I think my life models what the Never Peak project advocates,

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which is basically lifelong learning, continuing to learn and grow, to overcome obstacles, to take action, which is the big key thing.

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And for me, it's about making a difference in what I call dynamically aging.

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So dynamically aging for me is staying engaged with life, no matter what's going on with me.

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It's never losing my curiosity about, huh, how is that working?

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How does that work for me? What's my role? What do I want my role to be in meeting with people,

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creating relationships with people, just in everything that I do?

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Perfect. Yeah. And I know that while we were talking a little bit about what kind of a sneak peek into what we talked about earlier,

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when you walked with me for a little bit during the walk across LA portion of my walk,

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I mentioned to you the whole idea of the Never Peak mentality and that what my goals and aspirations were for this project.

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So can you just talk a little bit about why that resonates with you so much as a dynamic aging coach?

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I think what really resonates with me is you talked about,

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well, you talk about the project, people wanting to not limit themselves by saying,

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okay, here's what I want to do in life. I want to become an attorney. That's it.

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Now, once I get there, there, now everything is done, finished through, I can sit back, relax, and like that.

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What I get from the Never Peak project is that this is each one of these things that we accomplish,

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that we want to do, we accomplish, or don't accomplish and learn from it.

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Each one of those is a pinnacle in this mountain range of peaks that we're creating.

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And this has certainly been true in my life. And I think what's really key and what really resonates with me is the business of constantly keep going.

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Doesn't necessarily mean doing, but it means, again, as I say, staying engaged, staying genuinely curious about what's going on in life.

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Yeah, I think that's such an interesting differentiation, that difference between doing and going.

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Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that?

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Well, I think the distinction for me is more between doing and being.

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So doing or going, I guess, is the business of always having something to do, to keep me active.

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You know, okay, I get up this morning, I'm going to send out X number of emails, I'm going to do a podcast with Ranger, I'm going to go go to Shrew Shopping.

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This is the do, do, do. But I think the key, really, to never peaking is considering who am I, who am I being in each of these roles.

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So that it's more, to me, it lends more to the curiosity aspect of it.

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It's uncurious about, okay, how do I want to show up? Who do I want to be?

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What is a message I would like to convey? What is it I would like to share with others?

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So I think that rather than the distinction being so much between doing and going, I think it's doing and being.

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So it's more so in deciding you're going to be the type of person that doesn't just think that the best is behind them, that thinks that they can continue to move forward and do these things.

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Like they're, what is it? Is it the B do have? Is that the model that we're kind of referring to? Yeah, like you have to be the type of person.

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I feel like I just bring it up all the time, but be the type of person that could walk across the country.

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Be the type of person that could start the business, that could do the thing, right?

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So like, what is it more so of a more of a declaration for being that type of person?

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Like I declare I am this type of person that can start or how does that kind of align with the doing?

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I think that's something that I had a hard time understanding when I first went on this coaching journey.

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So can you just talk a little bit about that for a second?

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Then we'll get more into your background and how we landed here.

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But I think that might be a good thing to distinguish.

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Yeah, I think the declaration is really key and I think it's the language of the declaration I am regarding my being.

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So when I did my coach training five years ago, I actually started into a program of grounding every single morning before I even get out of bed.

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And I start every sentence with I am, it starts out I'm calm and relaxed, I'm easygoing, no drama.

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I'm full of mischief and audacity and I have a good story to tell.

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I am kind, caring, compassionate, loving, but each statement, and there's I've got about, you know, 15, 20 of those statements that I've created over time.

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Each one of those starts out with I am, so it's not, yeah, this is what I'm going to grow up to be.

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Yeah, I'm going to make these changes and then I'll be, but it's rather starting right now, I am.

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And that constant, my mind doesn't know the difference.

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Apparently it's the same neural pathways, you know, it doesn't know whether it's now or later.

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If I say I am then my mind, my body says, oh, okay, so this is how we'll show up.

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Yeah, and as you're talking, it reminds me of something.

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Mike Posner, the guy that inspired my walk across the US, he does something very similar on a lot of his videos when he's running, when he's hiking, when he's doing anything.

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He starts off with I am joy, I am love, I am faith.

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And he kind of just repeats that mantra over and over and over and over again. And while I was training, I had my own where I was, I would say I am curious, I am present, I am disciplined.

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And that was something that I kept saying over and over and over again.

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There was something I read and it kind of goes in line with this.

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It was for, oh, supervisors to employees.

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And it was like saying, if you say things to them like a declarative statement like that, like, oh, I know you're trustworthy or I know you're, you know,

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insert what character trait you want them to exhibit, like saying that over and over and over again, gets them to also believe that and act in that way.

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So is that something that you've also heard where it's, if you say it for yourself as well as saying it to others, like, how does that, it's like the power of words.

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Yeah, I think definitely as a parent, also as a coach, that it's very important to plant those seeds.

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And it makes the person on the other side feel like that's how they're being seen.

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Oh, he, she sees me as trustworthy.

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Hmm, okay.

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I think I'm going to be trustworthy.

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I think I am trustworthy because that's how they see me.

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I've also heard that in the opposite way for if you, especially with children, I think that if you say, oh, you're a bad kid or you're not that smart, like you say these things to them.

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Why would they challenge that?

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Right?

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Like they were just going to act in ways that like promote that those negative attributes.

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So I think that's also, I don't know, maybe this is a little bit off topic for what we're talking about today.

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But just like the power of declarative statements, not just for you in terms of being, but the words that you use to describe and place upon others.

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I think the hope that we have is free will.

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You know, we've seen children who people who have grown up with really negative influences and they have turned out, you know, not to get what they wanted out of life.

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But we've also seen children who had really tough upbringings and who just soar.

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They just fly on their own because they don't listen to that.

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They say, I don't, I don't agree with that.

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Nope.

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I am successful.

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I am this person.

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And so I think that's the positive part of it.

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Certainly it's more helpful if the parents are reinforcing the positive that they see in the child and the positive they would like to see in the child.

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I feel like this could be a whole other episode, but it's give people what is it giving people on a like from the art of possibility by Xander and Xander.

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Help others see the good in them.

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Help others see that they're capable that they have all these possibilities in front of them.

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And I think that does tie very nicely into what you do with folks as they age and get older.

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So can you just talk a little bit about your story, how you landed here as a dynamic agent coach and why?

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Well, it's interesting because I've had a tremendous variety in my life as to the things that I have done.

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So I started out as an attorney, which by the way, it wasn't easy because that took me 20 years to become an attorney.

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Not because I was not because it was that hard, but because life kept showing up and I kept doing life.

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Anyway, I was an attorney and then when I turned 80 and I had done many, many things.

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I'd had a blog for five years.

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I had co-authored a very successful international selling book.

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Anyway, when I turned 80, I thought, you know, I'm not ready to just say, okay, I've done a lot.

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I think I'm going to hang it up here.

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What I realized was I wanted to continue making a difference.

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I believe that I have made a difference throughout my life.

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And I thought, you know what?

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Now, maybe hopefully I'm wiser, smarter, who knows, but I would like to keep making a difference.

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And so my daughter, Cammy McLaren, McLaren Coaching, is a coach and she had been a coach for about 10 years at that time.

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And I thought when I would watch her, how she was with people and how relationships built, how people felt seen and heard and cared about when she would talk to them and when they would talk to her.

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She was such a great listener.

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And so I said to her, I think when I grow up, I'd like to be like you.

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I would like you to teach me how to be a coach like you.

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And she said, huh.

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And as it turned out, it was something that apparently an idea that had kind of been lurking in her mind.

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And so the same week, several other people said the same thing to her, people who had been clients of hers.

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And so she said, all right, I think I'm going to create a coach training school.

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And I said, okay, I'm first. I get to be your first enrollee.

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And so yeah, so in 2019, she started transformative coaching essentials for coach training program.

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And I was her, yeah, I was the student and it was a fascinating experience because it's a complete role reversal.

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You know, it's like, okay, she's the teacher. I'm the student.

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And it was, it was just, it was fascinating.

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But more than that, I learned so much more than just the skills of coaching.

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I really learned more about myself and who I wanted to be as I continued aging dynamically.

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What was that experience like for you and your guys' relationship?

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You know, what I realized was I had the opportunity to let go.

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So I could go in and I recognize this. I could go in and I could critique what she was doing.

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And I could, I could say, well, honey, you might want to do it this way.

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Or you know, I didn't care much for that or whatever.

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But I decided to let go and to just be a student.

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And I could do that very easily because I knew nothing about it.

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I just knew what I saw in her and I thought, you know, this will be just very cool.

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It'll be relaxing for me.

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I wouldn't call the whole experience relaxing because, wow, as you well know,

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the coach training is a serious investment of learning and meeting yourself where you are.

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And yeah, it was, but no, it was a great experience actually to just be able knowing that she had all this experience

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and that she knew what she was doing. Absolutely.

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So yeah, I loved it.

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Yeah, definitely. And for those that listened to our last guest episode with Paul Briley,

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Paul also went through transformative coaching essentials, TCE.

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That's the program that I'm trained through as well.

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And I think she might be enrolling for 2026. So shameless plug for a cammy in her program.

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I'll put information down in the show notes as well for her.

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But when it comes to coach training, when it comes to the type of work that you're doing now,

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what do you think was the most impactful or influential pieces of it as you have worked with others that are,

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what's a good way to put like in the senior community that are aging?

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How would you kind of describe the folks that you work with maybe as like a standpoint or a starting point?

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Well, first of all, how do I say this correctly?

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First of all, yeah, I'd like to just suggest that everyone is aging because if they're not, they're not here.

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And so the idea of aging dynamically is not limited to an age category.

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I think I have a certain amount of credibility because I did my coach training in 80 and I started my first ever successful business.

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My first ever business nevermind successful. It was very, it is very successful.

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My coaching business called coaching dynamic aging.

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So it's not limited to people of any particular age because every day you are aging.

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And the trick is learning how to do that dynamically and what that means to you.

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So I would say a couple of the most significant things that came out of my coach training was learning about the sabotaging voice.

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And let me tell you that, oh boy, my sabotaging voice, although I had not identified it, I didn't identify it until I went through coach training.

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It had been alive and well from forever since the very beginning, but it really reared its ugly head when Cami had a coaching call with me prior to my starting coach training.

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And I shared with her, I had deep considerations about whether I could actually take on a year-long program at my age.

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And also that nobody else would even be close to my age.

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I mean, this would be, and this voice just went on and on saying, yeah, you're too old, you can't do this.

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And Cami said, may I stop you for a moment? She said, it sounds like you have really got a voice going on there that's telling you all these things that sound like fears and considerations.

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And she said, do you notice those other places? Oh my gosh, you know, that's my voice of wisdom.

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That's what I had always believed is that that's my voice of wisdom.

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That's my voice of caution so that I don't embarrass myself or take on more than I can, more than I should.

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So yeah, through then, through then, through coach training, I learned about the sabotaging voice, which is always there and will always be there.

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And I named mine Sarah, and she is this adorable little, probably 22-year-old ballerina from Swan Lake.

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So she has the little tiara and she has a little tutu and a little toe shoes and all that.

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And let me tell you that she is harsh and mean and critical. And she always says to me, you're too old. What are you doing?

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You're not going to be able to do this. You won't get it. You won't, you'll embarrass yourself. You'll, all the things.

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So once I learned that, and that has been really helpful with my clients, because I can hear as a coach, I can hear when their sabotaging voice kicks in.

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They say, well, I don't feel like I can do this because I've always had trouble with this and this and I don't think I can, yeah, then I'm my age or I'm either too young or too old or too inexperienced or too this, too that.

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And what's nice is I can say to them, it sounds like you have a voice that's talking to you and not talking very nice to you.

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So yes, that has been, that has been a really, that was one of the most valuable tools that I took away from coach training and that I use with my clients.

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I was going to say, I just did my workshop on the sabotaging voice and what was, I had a call with another gal that just went through TC as well.

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And I felt so defeated after that workshop, like I felt like everything went wrong, that I wasn't doing that great. And even she was like, it's kind of interesting that your workshop on the sabotaging voice, it's coming up for you so intensely.

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And I'm like, it is, I think maybe because it's so top of mind and it's like right there.

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But what was I was going to say, well, it's something that I've kind of started saying to with the sabotaging voice, which I didn't know that yours had such a, what is like a whole backstory and very, very, I was going to say descriptive description, detailed description.

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Yes.

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But it's almost like Sarah, right Sarah.

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Yes.

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Is like, you know, she's wearing the to to. So she's trying to get you to also wear that to to it's to I'm too old, it's too late. That's too difficult for me. So I thought that that was kind of interesting to

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Yeah, yeah, that's good.

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And it's how everybody by having what's nice is by having her characterized so that I can see her when I started my blog post, the last one I did.

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I could see her dancing across the top of my computer screen when I would sit down to write a post. And she would say to me, you don't know what you're talking about, you know, nobody's really interested in all that stuff that you're talking about.

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I don't know who what what you're doing. And I could actually see her. And so I could say to her, Sarah, leave. You need to go out. We live on the side of a mountain in a forest.

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And so I would say to her, Sarah, you need to go out into the forest and dance practice. Get out of here because I don't need you right now.

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And that always work. I learned a really interesting way to discover my sabotaging voice because I think that's the hardest thing you can know that you have it. But like you were saying after your, your workshop that you did, you didn't notice.

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And here's the thing Cami said to me at one time, she said, notice check in periodically and see how you're feeling. And if you're feeling bad, chances are it's Sarah.

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And it was so cool when I was writing my memoir, there were many, many, many, many times that I was standing there, sitting there, working on it.

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And I would notice that I felt really bad. And it wasn't about the, the, the content. But I just felt like I'm not doing this right. Nobody's going to be interested. What am I doing here?

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And I would check in feeling bad. So I would walk away from the computer and I would say, Sarah, you need to leave. I see you here out right now.

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And I also would just jot down what I heard her saying. That was so helpful because as I jotted it down, I realized that's not true.

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I know. It's like once you start saying these things out loud, these fears, these worries, like they make so much sense when they're in your head. But as soon as you get on paper, you say they're not loud as someone else.

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It's almost like, man, that's, that's silly. Why would I ever think that that's the issue?

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So what, what that sabotaging voice, when you're working with others that are aging, thank you for correcting me.

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So anybody like what are those common fears or those things that that voice says to them about their capabilities, what they can or can't do? How does that come up for folks? And how do you help them address it?

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I think Nick can come up in so many ways. One of the fun things about being a coach is the wide diversity of people that we work with. People have fundamentally the same fears, but they're expressed in different ways and they're there because of different things.

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And so what I noticed is the biggest one is, is usually it's a fear of something. It's afraid that, as I said before, they could be too old, they could be too young, they could be undereducated, they could be overeducated.

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They could be too busy, they could not have enough to do, they could fear that they're not intelligent enough, that, oh, or that they have a history. Oh, this is a big one, that they have, well, I've never been able to do that.

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Okay, never, are you sure? Ever, ever? And usually never is not the case and people can come up with, oh, huh, you know, I do remember, I did this one time, ah, okay.

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And so how do you apply then? What would be a way of applying what you did then, how you felt, what you saw, what you heard? What would be a way of applying that to what you want to do now?

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What would be different if you went back and became that person?

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Yeah, I think that that's such a key thing and I've seen that in my clients as well or even myself is what is almost like transferable skills over time.

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Like, what is it? Like, I've been able to apply this to what I worked for someone else, but I have a hard time doing it with my business like deadlines or timelines, that's just an example.

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Or I can very easily communicate with people in a work setting and, you know, explaining boundaries or expressing desires or wants or needs, but I have a hard time in personal relationships.

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It's like, that's such an interesting thing like how that, it's not just what is it, not just laterally across like industry almost, but I feel like maybe that's not the right way to say it.

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Across industry or across like roles, but also through time.

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So, interesting.

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Okay, so when it comes to being able to express that with folks that are aging or they have those age related fears, like, what have you seen in terms of what helps them get past that beyond just recognizing they've done it before?

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Like, what else comes up?

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I think the probably a couple of things come to mind.

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One is recognizing purpose and the whole purpose in coaching is, well, in anything, I guess, purpose is why? Why do you want to do this?

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I had a perfect example personally. My husband went through a total hip replacement in 2020 in October of 2020, yeah, during COVID.

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And he recovered fine from it physically, but emotionally had kind of lost his excitement for things.

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We and I had promised ourselves many, many years ago that we were going to live our lives healthy, active and productive for as long as we lived and we figured we would head for 120.

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So we'd set 120 as our outcome.

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That changes everything, by the way. If you hit 60 and you think, wow, okay, maybe I've got another 20, 25 years to go, then ARP and everybody else wants you to start downsizing and backpedaling and all of that.

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But if you say it's 60, okay, so I'm going to live healthy, active and productive as if I was going to make it to 120.

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Oh, wow, I could become a doctor. I have plenty of time to go to medical school, do my internship, have a 20 year practice.

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It just changes your whole concept. So anyway, back to the purpose thing, the why thing.

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So I asked my husband, I said, what would get you excited? What would get you back involved in excited about life?

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And just almost spontaneously, he said, I would like to hike vernal and Nevada Falls in Yosemite. He and I are avid hikers. We've hiked for many years and we've hiked most of the national parks.

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We had hiked, done that particular hike. It's a strenuous hike up the side of two waterfalls. And yeah, it's tough.

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And I felt fell off my chair when he said it. But I said to him, why? Why? Rather than jumping where how most of us, my clients, myself, what we usually do naturally is go to, well, how are we going to do that?

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Well, you'll never find out unless you know why you're going to do it. So I asked him, I said, why do you want to do that?

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And he said, because I want to see what I can do post hip replacement and at my age.

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Okay. And so then the how fell into place.

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So during the year we prepared for one year to do this hike. We did it at 84. I was 84 and he was 86 at the time we actually did it.

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I started a blog post and during what I noticed was so interesting was that we were excited initially. We were going to do this. We started hiking again, all that stuff.

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It was yeah, yeah, yeah. It's highly motivated. We had a schedule and all of that. And then about four or five months into it, we got injured.

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Both of us off and on would get injured. And I'll tell you what, that's one way to lose your motivation.

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And so motivation and Kami has written a great, great blog post on motivation.

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When motivation isn't there, the thing that you want is the why that is really your permanent motivation.

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So when we thought, oh my lord at our ages, are we going to recover from these injuries? And we became unmotivated because we had to walk six weeks on flat ground.

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We couldn't hike at all and time was passing by to go back and say, okay, why are we doing this?

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So I think that's what's really helpful for clients is to understand the distinction between motivation and why.

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So that if they want to do something, it's critical that they know why and that they're very clear on the why.

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And that's something that I try to get through to the folks that I talk to, especially when I right now I'm getting a lot of folks that are reaching out to me.

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How do you walk across America? Like I want to do it, etc, etc.

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I feel like they're a little disappointed when I tell them to write out their why, get very clear on it, have multiple why's, have multiple reasons.

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Because like you're saying, when you get injured, when things don't go the right way, when you are googling how close is the nearest airport,

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those are the moments that you think you're why the most.

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And it sounds like really any project, anything bigger than yourself, that is what is most important.

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Because like you said, it sounds like you had a million reasons or excuses, whatever you want to call them,

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to not continue training to just say, and who's going to blame you, right?

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If you were to put on a blog post, hey, we got injured, we can't do it.

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You would probably get a flood of I understand that makes sense, etc, etc.

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But to be able to continue to push through it, and I think that's another big thing is,

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if I can't do blank, then what can I do?

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I think that is something else that is also so important is, if I can't, you know, if I spring to my ankle, I can't run right now.

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But what can I do right now while it recovers?

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Yeah, I think also it's commitment.

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It's the what goes along with the why is your level of commitment.

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So yeah, if it works out, I'll do it.

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But you know, if it gets hard, well, I might not do it.

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But if you're committed at a 10, and you actually say, I'm committed at a 10,

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which means I will do whatever it takes to reach this outcome.

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Or as you're saying, if it's just, you know, totally not that specific outcome,

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then you come up with one that is equal.

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Six weeks before we were scheduled to do our hike, I pulled my muscle here, the trapezius muscle in my shoulder and neck,

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which meant I couldn't wear a backpack.

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Well, are you going to do a hike up to Waterfalls without a backpack?

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I've been training all this time.

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And so I thought, okay, so here's the perfect excuse.

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You know, my doctor has said you cannot put anything, any kind of a shoulder strap over your shoulder.

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Period. That's it.

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And so I thought, huh, okay, well, if I'm committed at a 10, what is another way to get this job done?

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And so I discovered waste packs.

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And it turns out, waste packs are all I hike with now, because if that's what I used, I wondered whether it would carry enough water.

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No, it didn't. I ran out of water just about a mile and a half or two miles before we ended the hike.

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And, but I had cough drops in my pocket so I could, I could suck out a cough drop and not be totally parched as I completed.

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But it's that whole thing of knowing the commitment, because otherwise, like you were pointing out as you look for back doors.

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And he said, well, you know, I wasn't, this was, if it worked out, if I didn't get injured, I was going to do it.

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Well, yeah, no, you've got to have that commitment at a 10 that you'll do whatever it takes.

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Yeah. And I think that's another thing too, is that you and I are talking about bigger things like my walk or your hike.

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But this is also something that applies to just every day, maybe stressful situations, but just living.

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What was it? The example I was going to use, I went to a networking event a couple of weeks ago.

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And I kind of have a hard time with bigger groups like that. It's hard to start conversations.

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It's hard to insert yourself into these groups, especially when it looks like they're established and they already know each other.

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Being the new kid on the block and being able to kind of like what you're saying earlier, like ground myself in the car before I walk in,

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go over my goals for the event. I'm not trying to make 10 sales. I'm trying to have 10 conversations.

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I'm trying to do these things like I have like those little mini goals for myself.

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But at the top of the paper, at the top of whatever my mind is rewritten over and over and over again is my why my mission for the business,

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my why for the day. And it's kind of like what's more important, giving into the fear, giving into the excuses,

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or getting the results and the outcome that I want to see.

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Like that kind of fight almost, it feels like at times.

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Yeah. I think one of the things that helps my clients also is that when they make a declaration and say, I will do this.

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When I check in with them on their accountability portion is to find out is to ask them the question nicely.

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What were you more committed to when they don't do it?

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Because obviously there's something you're either more committed to proving yourself right. I said I couldn't do it.

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I declared that I would do it. But see, I was right. I couldn't do it. I didn't do it.

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So you're more committed. We take a look at what are you more committed to than what you say you really want.

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And if you're more committed to something else, that's perfectly fine. It could be something better.

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But the thing is, is to be honest with yourself and to recognize, okay, I said I wanted this, but it turns out, huh, maybe I don't.

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And I think that might actually play a part into defining a little bit. So when you say, let's let's scooch back a little bit.

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When it comes to dynamic, what exactly is dynamic and why is that important for your coaching? Can you define the word a little bit more?

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Sure. Dynamic, if you look it up in the dictionary, pretty much is movement. It's movement.

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But the thing is, when we first started using, when I first started using dynamic aging, 2017, I co-authored a book called Dynamic Aging,

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Simple Exercises for Whole Body Mobility. And I had become a fitness trainer at age 71.

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I met this amazing woman who taught an amazing form of fitness, really couched around movement, physical movement.

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And I had three other friends who were all in their 70s at the time, and we were all in this class together with this 35, 40 year old lady who was just an incredible mentor.

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Anyway, what we noticed, those of us in our 70s, what we noticed was, oh my gosh, we are getting physically better, even though we're getting older.

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And it was, it was just amazing. I mean, I could not walk barefoot. I had to use an orthotic and I ended up walking five miles barefoot on the beach without a problem.

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As a result of this, I had chronic back aches and the back aches disappeared because of something that she teaches called alignment.

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Anyway, so we, we wrote this book. Now I've lost my, what, you want to know dynamic? Okay, so she came up with, she came up with the title Dynamic Aging.

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And I looked at that and I said, oh my gosh, yes, movement is the key to aging. You've got to keep moving and you've got to move in a way that supports your body in using your parts.

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Optimally. Okay. And that's what she teaches. So I, when I, when we wrote that book, I thought, yeah, that's it.

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Physical movement is the answer to aging successfully. And then as I got older and some of my physical things that I could do were not as easy, or it took me longer, or I had to modify or whatever.

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I realized that dynamic means more than physical movement. It means mental, emotional, spiritual, it's movement in all those categories, but it's all movement.

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That's the whole thing is that if you're going to age dynamically, you have got to keep moving, not necessarily physically, but you've got to keep your mind active.

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Or you've got to keep your emotions. You've got to constantly, this genuine curiosity, constantly checking in with yourself. How am I feeling? Why am I feeling that way?

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What is it that I want to be or do or have that will help me stay engaged in what's going on in my life? And that's, that kind of brings me to the magazine.

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The whole idea of dynamic is for people to define it for themselves. What does it mean to you?

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So Willis and I, my husband and I did the hike and on the way back down, there was a gentleman, many people stopped him. He has a beard and he, you know, he has this hiking poles.

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And so it's obvious that he's, he's not a kid. And so people would ask him, people of all ages would ask him, how old are you? And he got a kick out of him, 86.

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And they were just amazed. So anyways, we were coming down, a gentleman actually stepped in front of him on the trail and said to him, how old are you?

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And he said, I'm 86. And the guy said, I'm 77. He said, I have hiked this hike many, many times that I thought today would be my last hike.

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You have inspired me to keep doing it as long as I can. So what I walked away from doing that hike was people need to be, people want to be inspired to keep going.

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And so I started the magazine called Dynamic Aging for Life Magazine and invited people to write their personal stories of how they see themselves dynamically aging.

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So I had a gentleman who had been following my blog post for a number of years and I said to him, I think you'd just be a perfect person to write a story for us.

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Well, you do that. And he said, well, I don't see myself dynamically aging. I mean, this guy was 86 at the time. He was a dragon boat rower.

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He was, he was just so involved volunteering and hiking and all kinds of things. Absolutely an inspiration.

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And in my world, dynamically aging. And I said, all right, so what is it that you see yourself doing?

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And he said, he said, I do all these things because I'm scared of the slippery slope. And if you look at the magazine, there is a story called the slippery slope.

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And this is, he says, the slippery slope is that if I stop moving, I'm going to slide down that slippery slope into age, old age, where I can't do what I want.

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And so, yeah, dynamic is really a personal thing that everybody has to decide for themselves what that means to them.

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Kind of like that. And the reason I asked what dynamic was at that moment is because when you were saying earlier about what are you more committed to, are you committed to giving up or are you committed to changing?

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I feel like a lot of people kind of see that as, oh, well, I changed what I want. I changed my why. Therefore, something, you know, the wires are cross and this isn't what I want at all.

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And they kind of freeze, right? But that's also part of that process like that. If you want to say that it's failure, if you want to say that you didn't get the outcome you wanted, therefore, you know, you can make up the stories of what that means about yourself.

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But at the end of the day, all of it is movement. It's dynamic. It's that progression. So I think that that's also so interesting that it's not just, and that's, I'm glad you brought up the physical aspect too, because it sounds like it's that very like holistic approach of if you keep moving physically, you keep moving mentally.

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It sounds like you can continue dynamically aging for however long, I don't know, however long that means, right?

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Exactly. We have two gentlemen who contributed to our magazine who are in their 90s. One is 97. And he said, when I met with him, he happens to live near where we do, and we had lunch with him.

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In fact, both of our 90-something authors are friends. And what's interesting for them, dynamic right now is not movement, although they both are able to, you know, are so ambulating, perfectly fine.

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They both are artists. And it's so fascinating just to see when people who have been physically active, where that part slows down, that then they have the option of taking a look at, oh, what else might be out there?

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And that's another one of the purposes of the magazine, is to model different ways that people see themselves dynamically aging, what they're doing with it.

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I just published a brand new story called Epiphany on My Bike by a bicyclist who has done incredible things. And she had written a story for the magazine a year ago about all the things, all the rides she does.

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And it was phenomenal. In fact, the picture in the magazine shows her holding her bicycle up over her head. It's just an amazing picture.

343
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:30,360
This story was about being grateful, recognizing she has had some serious challenges this past year, and is struggling with her bicycling to get back to where she would like to be with it.

344
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:41,360
And what she was noticing was all the other things that she can do, and that she is noticing when she bicycles slower.

345
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:50,360
She's actually seeing the world around her and appreciating the flowers blooming, the, you know, what's around her.

346
00:44:50,360 --> 00:45:16,360
So, yeah, I think the movement actually for dynamic is about you as an individual constantly moving in your thinking, in your being, in your challenging yourself, and not just settling, maybe actually choosing what it is that you want.

347
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:23,360
Yeah, kind of that progression, no matter what it looks like. That movement is what's most important.

348
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Again, that ties back to being the type of person and declaring yourself as the type of person that can do X, Y, and Z, that can do these things, that can continue to climb the mountain as we talked about earlier with the whole idea of never peak.

349
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:47,360
And then it comes like that idea of, well, I have had success already, I don't need to move forward anymore, or I don't need to strive for something.

350
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:56,360
Is that something that comes up pretty often with the folks that you work with? Not necessarily the idea of I can't do it anymore, but I've already done it. So what's the point?

351
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:16,360
I think people who come to coaching, if they are facing that, that's what they want coaching on because they're noticing that the way they're living their life right now is not the way they want to.

352
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:25,360
It's not bringing them satisfaction, it's not bringing them fulfillment.

353
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:38,360
I think people come, in my experience, people come to coaching because they want to make a change, and that in itself is movement.

354
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:47,360
Gotcha. Okay. I think I asked that because one of the questions that we did get kind of revolves around that idea. Do you mind if I kind of read it for you?

355
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:58,360
The first one that I have here is Dear Ranger. I'm in my 40s and my parents are in their 70s. They're mentally sharp and doing well, but they're getting less active and seem content staying home more often.

356
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:06,360
I want to encourage them to stay engaged without seeing pushy and I want to be there for them as a support without hovering or making them feel fragile.

357
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:18,360
How can I gently introduce new activities or future planning conversations without overstepping? And how can I tell them if they need more support that I'm here for them without them feeling as though they need?

358
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:41,360
I think the first thing to notice is that we can't change other people. It appears that this individual is struggling with how she is feeling about what she's observing with her parents.

359
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:58,360
And I can certainly relate to that because it is a concern when you have people that are dear to you and that you're concerned about how they're living their lives.

360
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:20,360
I think the first thing is to find out why. Why it bothers you and what it is you can do about how you feel about this. As far as the... And coaches don't give advice, you know.

361
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:36,360
And because it is a question, I'll respond to it this way. Ask your parents. Get genuinely curious. And by that, I mean ask the deep questions. Ask them if it's okay.

362
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:52,360
Is it okay if I ask you some questions that I have about, you know, how you're aging? And then listen and keep asking genuinely curious questions.

363
00:48:52,360 --> 00:49:03,360
So as a coach, we can't go in. We're not effective if we go in with an agenda. Oh, here. Let me tell you how to cure your problem. Here you go.

364
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:14,360
All you have to do is tell them this, this, this and this and there it's handled. Wow, that's the shortest coaching call ever. And we didn't really accomplish anything.

365
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:24,360
The thing is, is that you want to know, the person asking this question wants to know what's going on, it sounds like, with her parents.

366
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:37,360
What is it like for you, mom, dad? What is it like for you as you're getting older? What does it feel like? And what is it...

367
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:48,360
Are there something scary? I'm scared of getting older. Are something scary for you? What scares you? Because I'm scared even at my age, you know.

368
00:49:48,360 --> 00:50:01,360
These are all things I think the thing is, it's a, it's hard.

369
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:24,360
What I'm learning, me personally at my age at 86, is that when I see people who are not aging in a way that they want to, I find that the more curious questions I can ask them, genuinely curious.

370
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:34,360
The distinction is, why don't you do anything? How come you don't get out and walk once in a while? You know, not those kinds of questions, but they're genuinely curious.

371
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:48,360
What does that feel like? What is that like for you? What is it like for you when this happens or when that happens? And you can certainly share what's happening for yourself as well.

372
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:58,360
So I think, I think my response is twofold. One is, get genuinely curious with your parents. Ask them what it's like for them and just listen.

373
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,360
Don't go in with the idea that you're going to solve it for them.

374
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:09,360
Coaches sometimes, new coaches in particular, will sneak in a suggestion.

375
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:23,360
I think, well, what if, what if you suggested that they go take a walk after dinner? Well, that's an agenda. That's your idea. Let them, let them, you know, what is it that you would like to do?

376
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:38,360
Maybe they're perfectly happy with what they're doing. And then it falls back on us, me, you, the questioner, how do we let go? How do we let go so that we're not, hmm, caught on.

377
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:52,360
Hmm, causing maybe a problem for them that they're concerned that you're concerned that you're concerned about them like that. But I don't know how clear that is.

378
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:59,360
No, I think that's perfect. And that's kind of what I thought you're going to go into in lines of that is more so.

379
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:13,360
That's kind of what I got from that question was they're bothered by it. They're upset by it. So going into that conversation, I think that very much bleeds more into having an actual fulfilling effective conversation.

380
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:23,360
So it sounds like that's more so where you want to be curious, be present with them, as opposed to making up stories. And, oh, go ahead.

381
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:40,360
Well, it seems like also that, at least what my experience as a coach is, is that the more curious I can get, and the more the client talks, they begin to think, oh, oh, huh.

382
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:51,360
You know, I guess we haven't been terribly active, you know, huh, I wonder, maybe we could do this or that. In other words, it triggers the client thinking about it.

383
00:52:51,360 --> 00:53:01,360
And it's really if the client or your parents don't come up with the idea, chances are they won't do it because it was your idea.

384
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:09,360
All right. And then the sex one. Dear Ranger, my wife and I are in our mid 60s and after decades of hard work, we're finally nearing retirement.

385
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,360
I'm excited about this next chapter, but also a little concerned about how we'll transition into it.

386
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:25,360
My wife and I have talked about retirement in general terms, but we haven't really sat down and made specific plans. I want us to both feel prepared, especially regarding our health, finances and future care needs.

387
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:39,360
But I don't want her to feel like I'm pushing or worrying unnecessarily. I also don't want her to feel uncomfortable as this is something that may trigger her to feel attacked or emotional.

388
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:46,360
My wife is incredibly independent and I know that sometimes feels uncomfortable discussing anything that hints at getting older or needing assistance down the road.

389
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,360
I want to start these conversations in a way that respects her feelings and lets her know that I'm by her side every step of the way.

390
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:57,360
What's the best way to bring up topics like health and future planning so that we're both on the same page?

391
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:14,360
It sounds like he is concerned that his wife might not be up to the conversation.

392
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:20,360
It's so funny that that comes up because my husband and I have been going through this very thing.

393
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:37,360
Although coaches are not supposed to self-reference, I will just share with the idea of letting you know that it's very normal to have these kinds of thoughts.

394
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:46,360
I was making up stories about how my husband would respond or would resist or would feel.

395
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:55,360
What I realized was that's exactly what they were. They were stories in my head that I was making up.

396
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:04,360
I said to my husband one day, I've been thinking about future planning.

397
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:19,360
I'm not very comfortable with it, but I'm wondering if you'd be willing to talk about what you think and what you want going forward.

398
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:29,360
What are your thoughts? Again, it's that business of becoming genuinely curious with the other person and sharing how you feel about it.

399
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:41,360
I do have trepidation when I think about making those plans, but it was so interesting that when I said to my husband, have you thought about this at all?

400
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,360
He says, no, not really.

401
00:55:45,360 --> 00:56:00,360
I said, oh, well, would you be willing to help me out? Because it bothers me. I'm concerned about it. I have some ideas. I've heard people talking. I've heard suggestions and all that.

402
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:16,360
Really, it's you and I who want to do this planning together. I would say set aside your stories that you're making up and just ask her. Get genuinely curious with her as to whether she's thinking about it.

403
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:22,360
What's she thinking about it? Would she be willing to think about it with you?

404
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:35,360
It sounds like at the end of the day, a lot of these, I feel like we got the same kind of questions when I had Paul on last week, was kind of like not how do you change other people, but how do you approach these conversations with others?

405
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:43,360
It sounds like that. What is it? Coach style communication. We're not trying to get anything out of the conversation. I'm not trying to push anything on you.

406
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:56,360
I just want to open up this curious dialogue with you to see where we are right now, see where we want to go. And I think that also kind of plays in what we're saying earlier with the whole idea of is this what we really want?

407
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:08,360
Is this how do things shift or change over time? Like just being open to things changing. Like if you say one thing during this conversation, it might change next week.

408
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:17,360
But we're still opening up this conversation, having that dialogue so we can eventually get to where it is that we really want to be.

409
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:27,360
I think when I did my coach training, I asked my husband one day at lunch, I said, could I practice asking curious questions with you?

410
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:38,360
And he said, yeah, genuine curiosity, not the, you know, not the what do you want for lunch, but the how do you feel?

411
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:49,360
And so I said, so you and I have hiked all over the country for many, many years. What's your favorite hike? I'm curious, what is your favorite hike?

412
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:59,360
Well, we've been married now 50 years. And so I figured I know what his favorite is, you know, he's going to say whatever. Well, he didn't say whatever.

413
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:07,360
And so my first impulse was to say, no, that wasn't your favorite. Don't you remember you like this one?

414
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:16,360
And I thought, okay, so as a coach, I don't get to do that. I get to be genuinely curious. And I said, really? So that was your favorite hike.

415
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:33,360
What about that hike? You made it your favorite. And I began to learn so much. It's interesting that when we're married a long time to a person, when we have a long time relationship, we begin to think we know who they are.

416
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:43,360
But we're changing and they're changing. And so to get curious with your partner, to get genuinely curious and not assume that you know.

417
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:53,360
And that's the same thing with this end of life planning or the future planning is that don't assume that you know so that when you say, well, I thought you wanted to be cremated.

418
00:58:53,360 --> 00:59:09,360
You always said you want. No, I said, well, why is it that you want to be buried? Or why is it that you want to have long term care insurance? Or why is it with a genuine and listen and reflect back?

419
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:28,360
It sounds like this is what is important to you. So I think that's a that's a big that was a biggie for me. And I'll tell you what, it reinvigorated long term relationship to constantly say to adapt, adopt this place of being genuinely curious with my husband,

420
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:35,360
instead of saying, assuming that I know what he wants, because we've been together for so long.

421
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:46,360
Gotcha, I feel like that is just such the answer to almost everything. Be curious. Be clear. Like what is it? The Ted Lasso. Have you seen Ted Lasso before the TV show?

422
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:59,360
But be curious, not judgmental. And it's not just judgmental in that like a negative standpoint, it's just like that you're casting judgment that you're making these stories up about what other people should be experiencing.

423
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:16,360
So I think that's such a valuable takeaway for sure. So is there any so in terms of the conversation, it sounds like we went over the idea of how the never peak mentality works with dynamic aging, really explaining what dynamic aging meant.

424
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:26,360
Really explain what dynamic aging means to you and those that you work with. Is there anything else that you want to add to the conversation or anything else that you want the walk the listeners to walk away with?

425
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:42,360
If someone is really looking to make a change or is really facing a difficult future conversation, coaching is something that can definitely be helpful. And I highly recommend it.

426
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:58,360
And I would say this, that the coaching skills, the primary coaching skills can be used by being, you don't have to have coaching to have a conversation with someone. It can be made easier that way.

427
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:27,360
But not everybody is going to do coaching. So I think for me, what has really worked well is to adopt a an attitude of being genuinely curious about everything that's going on in your life about people you live with about the people you interact with about making new friendships about what's going on in the world around you.

428
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:40,360
Just that whole thing of being genuinely curious. It's not the curiosity where we say what's for lunch, but it's that curiosity about what do you feel?

429
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:52,360
Or what is that like for you? What is that like for you? Everybody, three things that everybody wants is to feel seen, heard and cared about.

430
01:01:52,360 --> 01:02:06,360
And one of the easiest ways to make people feel seen and heard and cared about is to ask them that curious question and listen without judgment and without an agenda.

431
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,360
So I think that's the takeaway for me.

432
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:22,360
Perfect. I think that sums up the conversation beautifully. So thank you so much for your time. In terms of if anybody wants to learn more about you, learn more about dynamic aging for life or wants to work with you in some capacity.

433
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:28,360
What are the best ways for people to get in touch and start that relationship with you?

434
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:43,360
Yes, so I have a coaching website which is called Coaching Dynamic Aging. The URL is www.dynamicagingforlife.com.

435
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:50,360
I also have what I'm enrolling for is the magazine that I talked about creating.

436
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:59,360
So we're celebrating our second anniversary, November 1st. We've been doing this for two years. We have some phenomenal authors on the magazine.

437
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:04,360
These are all stories about how people see themselves dynamically aging.

438
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:12,360
That is the same URL except it says dynamicagingforlifemagazine.com.

439
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:26,360
Either way, on the magazine I'm constantly inviting, I have a what would we call a perpetual invitation for people to write their story about how they see themselves dynamically aging.

440
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:35,360
And you'll see if you go to that website, it'll tell you, it says tell your story, it'll give you the guidelines, or you can reach out to me directly.

441
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:55,360
I'm at Joan at dynamicagingforlife.com. And I'm happy to talk to you. I also offer free coaching consult just to find out whether you want coaching and particularly whether you want coaching with me.

442
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:01,360
Because it's definitely you've got to find your coach, the one that works for you.

443
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:09,360
Wonderful. And all that information will be down in the show notes as well as more information about how you can develop those coaching skills.

444
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:23,360
Joan, thank you so much for your time and for all the work that you do. I know that is appreciated. And again, just going through some of these stories and seeing how you are able to encourage folks to share their story to talk about these things.

445
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:29,360
I think is so, so incredibly valuable. So thank you for what you do and keep going.

446
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,360
Thank you, Ranger. It's been a pleasure.