1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,880 Hello everyone and welcome to the Within Range Coaching Podcast. I'm Ranger, a certified 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:14,520 holistic success coach, and in this podcast, I break down the journey entrepreneurs face 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,480 as they start their organizations, overcome roadblocks in their way, and create an impact 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,640 that lasts. We talk with entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, and purpose-driven community members 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,960 just like you. Together, we learn how to grow our impact and develop ourselves as the people 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:36,440 behind the mission. My intention is to help more people, help more people. And remember, 7 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,520 if you're curious about expanding your impact, growing a community, or defining your mission, 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:47,080 vision, or values, we can chat off the record. You can find my info in the show notes or at my 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,800 website withinrangecoaching.com. We're also looking to build our sponsor community with 10 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,640 organizations and individuals who align with our values of fearless innovation, social responsibility, 11 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,720 and courageous candor. If you're interested in helping us highlight individuals doing great work 12 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:09,600 in the world and share these values, reach out to me directly at ranger at withinrangecoaching.com. 13 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,840 I know you're just as eager to get started as I am, so let's jump right in. 14 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:23,920 Welcome to another episode of the Within Range Coaching Podcast. In today's episode, 15 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,720 we're joined by Star Rayburn, an expert in software development and business management 16 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:34,280 who shares valuable insights into the intersection of both of those fields. We'll explore the 17 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,160 challenges of managing tech projects, the importance of long-term vision in business, 18 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:44,120 and the crucial role of respecting and valuing your employees and their time. If you've ever 19 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,840 wondered how to balance productivity and employee satisfaction, or how to plan your company for 20 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:55,680 sustainable growth, this episode is for you. Let's jump right in. I'm continuing on with my 21 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:02,160 Walk Across America series where I am highlighting the nonprofit leaders, entrepreneurs, and community 22 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,760 members that I meet along my way that in some way, shape, or form have helped me along my journey. 23 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:15,960 And today we have a guest that has been so, so helpful and impactful on my journey, especially 24 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:23,400 getting into the good old city of Amarillo here in Texas. We're recording from Texas right now 25 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,640 before I start my journey and my little jaunt through New Mexico and the hot states. So by 26 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:35,280 the time you hear this, I will be somewhere in the middle of Arizona or New Mexico. But instead of 27 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:42,720 focusing too much on that, I'm going to hang out with my new good friend and owner of Sky Labs 28 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:51,200 Technology, which is a software development firm based out of Amarillo, Texas, Star Rayburn. Star, 29 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:57,400 how are you doing today? Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thanks for taking 30 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:05,600 the time to hang out with us today. And Star, I have never had a software or tech or anything 31 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:11,440 like that business on the podcast just yet. And I know that we have a very specific topic of 32 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,120 discussion for today that's a little bit different than what people may think. But before we jump 33 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:22,160 too straight into today's topic, could you just give us a quick introduction of who you are and 34 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:29,400 what your intention for today's episode is? Sure. As you said, I'm Star Rayburn, run Skylabs 35 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:39,120 Technology that does software development and primarily focused on web and mobile applications. 36 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:50,240 We also build backends for all sorts of companies throughout the area and across all of America. 37 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:58,000 So the main things that I wanted to focus on today is why did I start a business? And where 38 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:04,960 do we see business going over the next few years? You and I are both young. A lot of the businesses 39 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:18,080 that we see are run by older individuals who have their own kind of perceptions of how employees 40 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:24,080 should act. And I think what I'm trying to do is kind of turn that on their head a little bit as 41 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:30,280 I see the younger generation coming up and what their expectations are. So we've had a lot of 42 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:37,160 success in the way that we run our company. And just kind of want to share that with everybody 43 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:46,560 else to see maybe we can shift the view of work inside of America. Yeah, which I think is such an 44 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,840 interesting topic, especially like you're saying as these generations kind of flip and was like 45 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:57,480 the baby boomers, they start to retire or they start to leave the business world. Like it's really 46 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:03,880 up to the millennials, the Gen Zers that are coming up to find what works best for us and what works 47 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:10,400 best for the industries that we go into overall. And I think that employer relations are going to 48 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,360 be one of those biggest factors that determine the success of a business moving forward. And I 49 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,840 think that's such a valuable conversation to have. I mean, I don't have any employees right now 50 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:26,320 myself, but in the next two, three, four, five years, I can definitely see within range kind of 51 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:32,720 bringing on more folks. So I'm really excited to hear what your guys take is on, what is it like 52 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:40,400 hours and compensation and how all of that really works beyond just the numbers. Yeah, definitely. 53 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:49,200 And I think from my perspective, you know, I am someone who, you know, I graduated high school in 54 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:55,400 2006. It was right before the housing market crash. So we had like a really hard time finding work. 55 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,760 I'm originally actually from Arizona. So I'm sorry that you're walking through there during the 56 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:09,760 summer, but because the industry was so difficult to get into, and actually was not doing software 57 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,640 development when I got out of school, I had to jump around jobs. And so I had a lot of experience 58 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:23,120 as a worker in a lot of different industries. When I got my first tech job, I was working for a 59 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,640 pharmaceutical company. And it was awesome. The environment was really cool. Everyone was super 60 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:37,760 helpful. It was privately owned. I could go and walk up to the CEO's office and sit down and have 61 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:43,880 a glass of whiskey with him if I wanted to, you know, and he was really open and cool. And then a 62 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:52,840 few years into doing that, you know, he sold off the company because he was getting older. And he 63 00:06:52,840 --> 00:07:00,640 had a really strong view of like employee employer relationship, he he wanted to make sure that if 64 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:06,560 you stayed there, you were getting paid, you were getting compensated. Everybody was they worked 65 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:13,720 hard, and they played hard. And the company supported that. When corporate came in, they like 66 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:20,920 destroyed all of that environment. And I think that was something that was extremely difficult 67 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:35,560 for me to see. And it's, it's a big reason that I jumped off and started my own company. I think 68 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:42,680 that talking with the younger generation, and what they expect out of work, I think there's this 69 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:50,840 expectation of, I have a life outside of work. And I will work for you, and I work hard, but your 70 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:59,280 money doesn't give you a right to own my life. And I think that especially in a corporate structure, 71 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:08,600 there is that where I'm a salaried employee. But if you have to work 60 hours, that's, that's just 72 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:16,840 what you do, because it's part of your job. And I really disagree with that viewpoint. So some of 73 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:27,360 the steps that I've taken to kind of mitigate that is to, we as a company don't offer any PTO, we 74 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:34,800 treat as everyone is adults. So I guess instead of no PTO, it's unlimited PTO. So if you feel like 75 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,200 you don't want to come into work that day, you want to do something else, that's fine. As long as 76 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:47,600 you're keeping up with your work, and you're being responsible, and communicating, we treat you like 77 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,000 a brother, you know, like, hey, I can't come over today. Oh, no worries. Let's do it next week. 78 00:08:52,280 --> 00:09:02,600 Okay, so I think that there's what that lends us. And you know, because of the industry, I do have 79 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:09,160 the ability to not have someone come in, and it's not going to kill me. We also have like the 80 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:18,400 luxury of saying things like, hey, if you want to work four hours a day, every day out of the week, 81 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:28,760 that's fine. We've also implemented things like 32 to 34 hour work weeks. What we've seen with that 82 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:36,640 is basically increase in productivity, where people feel like they have less time to get things done. 83 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:42,120 So when they come in, they're ready. And they're going to sit down, work extremely hard to get the 84 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,600 things done that they need to do so that they don't have to work late. They don't have to do the 85 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:52,640 things that they need to do. And when I lend that opportunity for people to be able to create their 86 00:09:52,640 --> 00:10:00,600 own work hours, to do things like take off at any time that they want, and to spend time with their 87 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:09,800 families, it lends us or gives us the ability to ask them, hey, we have meetings that are outside of 88 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:16,440 your schedule time, would you mind coming in? And they'll work harder and want to facilitate that 89 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:24,800 for you, because you're doing the same for them. And so I think the way that I've seen companies 90 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:33,160 view employees, and the way I try to view employees is very different. Just because we don't 91 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:42,840 really need a business who is going to see you as an item that they can use, is not going to be able 92 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:51,360 to sustain a lifestyle over a long period of time. You know, we're seeing generations switch jobs 93 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:58,560 every two to three years. In fact, when I first started software development, one of my first 94 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:08,840 mentors I had, he was a senior software developer at Google. And this guy told me, hey, go and get a 95 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:17,040 job, work there for one year, move. Okay, get that job, move again, because that's how you make more 96 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:22,000 money. You know, you're going to start at $65,000, you're going to move, you're going to make 80, 97 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,640 you're going to move, you're going to make 100, you're going to move, you're going to make 125. 98 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Because if you stay in a single location, they don't see value. And he said, you know, what's crazy 99 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:41,640 is I went, I wanted to work at Google, I got a job here. I asked for more money, they said no. So I 100 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,880 left, I went and worked for Microsoft for two years. And I came back and I got more money than 101 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:55,920 I originally asked from Google. And he said, it's ridiculous to me that a business doesn't see any 102 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:02,680 value and you stay in. And I think you can see that through the way they treat employees, the way 103 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:11,400 they like their policies that they put in place, these ideas of, you know, minimum raises, like a 104 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:23,800 1%, 3% raise that doesn't cover even inflation. I mean, that to me, is unacceptable. And I think 105 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:30,120 it's what we're trying to fight and try to stay really conscious of. Talking about raises, we try 106 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:37,360 to look at first, everybody gets a inflation raise, because you shouldn't have to pay to work 107 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,520 somewhere. Because truly, if you don't make inflation, then you're paying money to work 108 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:50,400 somewhere. So that's like our first step. And then we look at how did you do as an employee, and 109 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:57,000 we'll give you an additional percentage on top of the inflation rates. So those are some of the 110 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:05,720 things that I try to focus on as far as dealing with my employees. And again, you know, my 111 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:12,880 employees will stay with me. You know, I've had, I've owned my company now for five years, and I've 112 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:23,120 had one employee that has stayed with me for three and a half years. And he basically got hired in. 113 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:30,360 And that's where he is. We've never lost a single employee. We're just continually growing. I think 114 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:37,800 really, you know, the things that I want to stress to anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur or is 115 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:49,000 an entrepreneur is recognize that your company is yours, right? It's your baby. So you saying I'm 116 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,800 willing to come in and work all these extra hours. And that makes sense, because it's your brain 117 00:13:53,800 --> 00:14:00,760 child, right? The people that work for you, you should not expect that out of them. They're here 118 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:07,320 to do a job, and they're going to do their job well. But if, if you're trying to push your views 119 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:13,480 and feelings on them, based on like how you want your business to be successful, and you want 120 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:20,920 people to work really hard, that's not a motivation for them. They don't have the same type of view of 121 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:26,440 the company. It's a job for them. You know, because if they wanted to have that same type of view, 122 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:34,360 they would go and start their own company. But not everybody is an entrepreneur like you. So make 123 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:41,000 sure that you're being really conscious of that. Ensure that you're treating your employees with 124 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,360 respect and treating them like adults like they are. Because the more you treat them like children, 125 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,080 the more they'll act like children. Yeah, and that's, that's such an interesting thing to bring up, 126 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:57,640 too, is because I mean, my goodness, on all of these, when I was on the job hunt, it's, you know, 127 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,840 we're looking for someone with an entrepreneurial mindset. It's like no one, no, you're not. 128 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:10,840 You're looking for certain qualities that could be shared between those two. But if someone's an 129 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:17,000 entrepreneur, like true and true, they're going to want to start their own thing. They're not going 130 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:24,200 to necessarily want to work for someone. And I think that's a very valuable thing to bring up is 131 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:31,640 that with when it comes to your business, nobody's going to care about it as much as you do. And if 132 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:37,560 somebody cares about it more than you do, like there's a problem there. Right. That it's not 133 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,960 aligning with your values or what you want to do. Or I guess that's a whole other podcast, 134 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:50,680 potentially, right? Or another episode. Welcome to the mountaintop. Are you an entrepreneur or 135 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,080 nonprofit leader ready to make a bigger impact in the world, but aren't quite sure how to do it, 136 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:01,640 or even where to start? Then join the NeverPeak community on school, where bold movers, shakers, 137 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,600 and magic makers come together to achieve their dreams and support others on the way to theirs. 138 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:12,760 Our goal is to help leaders change the world by first focusing on themselves, by fostering community 139 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:19,080 rooted in support and learning. My goal is to help you be more effective in your organization, 140 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:24,760 achieve your biggest dreams, and make time for what really matters in your life. In NeverPeak, 141 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:31,320 you'll find weekly book clubs, engaging courses, weekly mastermind calls, monthly Q&As with industry 142 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:37,720 experts, and networking opportunities that span the globe. Our courses and discussions cover 143 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,840 essential topics like personal finance, work-life balance, goal setting, relationship building, 144 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,040 business topics, and so much more. Each course is designed to support you to holistically grow 145 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:55,000 yourself as the person behind the mission. Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention. At the time 146 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:01,560 of recording this, the community is completely free. That's right, you can get started for zero 147 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,880 dollars down, but that won't last for long. All you need to do is go to school.com, that's 148 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:16,040 skool.com forward slash never dash peak, or hit the link in the show notes to claim your spot on 149 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:22,520 the mountain. Again, be sure you get in now, because I cannot wait to see you there and witness the 150 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:36,280 peaks you'll reach in just a few weeks. In terms of the success that you've seen with your employee 151 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,760 with giving them these benefits, the unlimited PTO, the flexible work hours, it sounds like you're a 152 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:50,120 lot more results and product driven in terms of, hey, this is what these, from what I can kind of 153 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:56,280 hear in our previous conversations, you looked at it more so as, okay, this is what I need out of an 154 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,160 employee, this is the product that I need. I'm going to hire someone that can do those things, 155 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:08,840 rather than I need a warm body that can work 40 plus hours a week. What is that differentiation 156 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:18,760 between being, I guess, outcome driven versus time driven? Yeah, well, even in any company, you can 157 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:25,000 see employees are, there are certain employees that are going to be more proficient than other 158 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:36,680 employees. And I think recognizing that a person who is proficient shouldn't get more work as the 159 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:42,440 benefit, right? Like, hey, congratulations, you did such a great job today, here's more responsibility 160 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:50,360 with no pay, right? That's kind of an easy thing to do. And when I'm consulting with other firms 161 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:56,680 that I work with, that's one thing that I talk with management about, hey, you know, just because 162 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,920 these people are doing a really good job, don't give them more work with no benefit. Make sure 163 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:13,480 that you are giving them, either you are reducing the, or giving them more flexibility, or you're 164 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:21,080 compensating them in money. So money, time, benefits, those are the things that you can do 165 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:27,560 to say, hey, you know, if you do this extra thing, you know, we'll give you a half day on Friday. 166 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,600 I think that's like a benefit that people will say, well, cool, like I was just doing what I thought 167 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:40,920 I should be doing. And look, I get all this extra, you know, this extra benefit. And I think like, 168 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:51,240 for me, and again, this kind of goes back to my industry, it allows for the ability to have a 169 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:59,160 production driven employment line, right? So I have X amount of tasks that I need them to get done 170 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,880 in a specific amount of time. If they're done with that, sure, is there other stuff I could have them 171 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:10,920 do? Yeah. But are they doing busy work at that point? Maybe. And from my perspective, I kind of 172 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,680 look at each individual person I work with, and say, what do I think they can get done? Not 173 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:22,200 what can I get done and then give that them? Yeah, or give that to them. But like, learning 174 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,200 your employees, understanding what their capacity is, and then giving them things they can be 175 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:35,160 successful in. Because I think one thing that I struggled with at the last company I was at, is 176 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:42,920 that I didn't feel like I could be successful. And that was really disappointing. And I think 177 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:48,360 that was really discouraging. Where I got to the point where I was like, I don't even want to go 178 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:56,040 into work today, not because I don't feel good, or anything. But it's just, it's not fun anymore. 179 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:06,280 And like, I think jobs should be entertaining, fun to do. I should enjoy what I do. And if I 180 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:12,360 didn't, I could go and get a minimum wage job working somewhere and just do that. But like, for 181 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:20,920 me, it's really important to enjoy what I do 40 to 60 hours a week. So when I jumped off and started 182 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:26,760 my own company, I took a huge pay cut. That's okay, though, to me, because the quality of work is 183 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:36,040 much better. I can pick and choose what I want to do. And I think those are the things that I 184 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:43,160 those benefits outweigh just like value in dollars. Another thing like about employees in the new 185 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,800 generation coming up is, it's this gig economy structure, where everybody's working four jobs, 186 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:57,000 but they only work like 10 hours a week, doing them, or passive income. So they're all looking 187 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:05,560 for ways to not have to work. So and they will be successful in it. Like it's not this idea of, 188 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:12,840 well, that's just a fad. It's this is the future for us, how I view it. It's this gig economy. It's 189 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:23,560 the structure of how can I increase the time that I get to do what I want, while making enough money 190 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:31,160 to get by. And I think there are still people that are money driven. But I think at the end of the day, 191 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,960 a majority of people will stay somewhere where quality of life and quality of work 192 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:47,160 come together beautifully. So it's where I try to focus on, you know, I try to focus on on that 193 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:52,440 aspect when I'm dealing with employees. Yeah, and there's a few different things that I want 194 00:22:52,440 --> 00:23:00,680 to kind of highlight. There's the the gig economy aspect, and then value beyond money. And with the 195 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:07,240 gig, I guess, economy or mindset or whatever you want to call it, I feel like, you know, TikTok, 196 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:16,040 social media, one of the good things slash we can get into that in a second, I guess. But it's it's 197 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:21,880 showing people that there's more opportunity and possibility out there than just the status quo of 198 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:28,680 work 40 hours plus a week for the next 40 years. And then maybe you'll retire and then you get to 199 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:35,480 sit at home. Right. Like there's there's a whole dream. There's a whole, I guess, vision that's 200 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,240 kind of sold with that. It's not just invest your money here and make passive income. It's so that 201 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:49,240 you can blank. And there's much more to it than just surviving, which again, it's very different 202 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:56,680 than what it was 100 200 300 years ago. Sure. We're not even five years ago. Yeah, even even 203 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,520 yeah, not that many years ago. Right. It's like it's it's not just about surviving. It's really 204 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,680 about thriving. Like what does it mean to work? And I think with the rise, maybe you can speak 205 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:13,320 to this more with technology, with artificial intelligence. Like there's certain tasks that 206 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:20,280 are automated now that now we can start focusing on true actualization and what we really want out 207 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,440 of being alive than just making enough to make rent and survive. What do you think about that? 208 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:34,200 Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that there's a lot to unpack there. We have I think. 209 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,080 Kind of the way of the future as I see it is eventually we'll probably all get on 210 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,760 universal basic income because at some point. 211 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,200 AI or there's not going to be enough jobs for us, whether that's 100 years in the future, 212 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:57,880 200 years in the future, 20 years in the future, it's going to happen. And so I think instead of 213 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:04,440 pushing back, I think we need to embrace it and start to shift and mold the way we do business, 214 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:12,680 the way we view life and not to not to say there isn't like value in work, because I think at the 215 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:21,480 at the core, human humans want to be productive. They want to have something to do because nobody 216 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:28,040 wants to sit around their house all day and watch TV because even people that are doing like I'm 217 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,600 going to sit in my room and play video games all day. 218 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,440 They're sitting in their room playing video games. 219 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,840 Being social and feeling productive. That's why they play those types of games. 220 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:49,560 So I think when we're looking at the way we structure business for the future, we have to 221 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:59,880 recognize the fact that pay is like a true piece of your puzzle. But there's also like if you can 222 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:06,680 provide a way that people get to like honestly, I had one of my employees went skydiving on Thursday, 223 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,240 you know, and he said, Hey, I'm going to go skydiving today. And I was like, Okay, cool. 224 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:18,360 That sounds fun. That sounds terrifying to me. But sure, you know, and I think we 225 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:26,840 him having the opportunity in which he gets to go and do whatever he wants whenever he wants, 226 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:32,440 as long as he like, wraps up his work by the end of the week, and says like he puts a button on it 227 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:44,360 and says like, Okay, I'm done. Then that to me, provides so much value. I think the way of the 228 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:53,720 world is, you know, technology. And it's kind of interesting, you know, based around technology 229 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,360 and being a software development company, a lot of people are worried about AI, and they're 230 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:09,400 worried about AI, taking over their jobs. And if your job is literally just development all day, 231 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:16,280 then I mean, I've never had a job like that. A majority of it is sitting in meetings, 232 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,920 understanding how the business works. And I think there's always going to be an increase of, 233 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:30,280 or like a increase in necessity for other types of jobs. And like, instead of trying to push back 234 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,200 on change, or like, say, well, you need to protect this, you need to protect that, I think I try to 235 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:44,040 embrace whatever's coming and say, you know, if chat GPT is going to write code in the future, 236 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,040 then what we need to do is we need to start using chat GPT to increase our productivity, 237 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:57,160 so we don't have to work as long. Right? Because then I get to go and do something that I want to 238 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:10,680 do, that's outside of work. And I don't know, I don't see, I don't see value in busy work. If 239 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:19,560 that makes sense, you know, like, there are some things that, that have to be done. But I don't 240 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:32,280 want to try to keep someone here doing something for no reason. And I don't know if maybe it's just 241 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:43,560 the industry I'm in, or, and maybe it's just who I am as a person. But that kind of stuff frustrates 242 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:57,080 me. And I think what really drove me to become an entrepreneur is I, you know, I identified 243 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:03,960 problems, I saw things that were affecting my day to day life. You know, the last four months I was 244 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:11,800 there, I was on a phone call for three weeks straight. Like I slept on the phone. And I'm, 245 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:17,160 and when like it all was over, because I understood, hey, this stuff is happening. I'm the 246 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:23,480 person that can fix it. What are we going to do? Let's get it done. And that was fulfilling to me, 247 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:34,200 to some degree. But when it was done, there was no compensation. Like, what did I get? They offered 248 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:42,440 me a piddly raise, you know, they didn't understand that they just took, you know, over 249 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,600 400 hours of my time away from me that they're not paying me for because I'm salaried. 250 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:59,960 Like, I don't understand where they think that's okay. And when quality of life gets trumped by 251 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:09,640 the job. I think that that's where people and where the younger generation, they didn't have 252 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:18,920 the younger generation did not have the same work, even in a minimum wage job that we did, 253 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:27,400 like me, I'm 35. And a minimum wage job, it wasn't good money by any means, but it was definitely 254 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:35,080 better than it is today. You know, working at a minimum wage job now, you work 40 hours, and you 255 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:41,880 probably can't even pay rent. You know, so now you're going to work a minimum wage job with three 256 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,320 other people, and you guys are going to live in a tiny confined space that's impossible for you to 257 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:54,360 do anything, be creative, get the rest you need, be able to study and go to school. Like, I feel 258 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:00,200 like we're setting our, our younger generation up with impossible feats and tasks. And it's kind of 259 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:05,800 why they're moving into that like gig economy type structure where they're like, you know what, 260 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:14,440 I'll just go and work at Uber for 20 hours, and I make more money at an Uber in 20 hours than I did 261 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:25,320 working at Walmart, you know, or McDonald's. And it's, it's, I think we just have to be really 262 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,360 conscious of that, you know? Yeah, and I think it's just, again, that just showing that there's, 263 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:40,520 it sounds like it's, we're kind of backed into a different corner than other generations were. 264 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,600 Like right now, it's a lot of it is minimum wage just is impossible to live off of in some case, 265 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:55,720 in most cases, probably all of them, honestly. But it's like it's being able to move into and 266 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:01,640 seeing that possibility of Uber, of these other aspects that can actually move you forward in some 267 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,840 way, shape or form, which I think is so interesting, like seeing like at the last job that I had before 268 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:15,160 I started my walk, I worked as a county inspector, and certain like fast food companies were almost 269 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,720 paying as much as I was making. And it's just like so interesting seeing that that shifts in terms of 270 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:27,320 how people are how these corporations have businesses value employee time. And it sounds 271 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,280 like a lot of your motivation for starting your business beyond just I want to own my own thing, 272 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:39,320 I want to create something was creating a good space to work, much like that very first job that 273 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,080 you had with the first CEO that gave you that flexibility, that gave you that freedom that gave 274 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:49,720 you that freedom that gave you that. I'm not just a number I'm not just a resource, I'm a partner 275 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,320 in the mission of what we're trying to create here. And it sounds like a lot of people that are 276 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,560 younger that are starting businesses take that as a core value of their business, 277 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,960 of providing a great place to work beyond just basic pay and benefits. 278 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:13,880 Yeah, and I think it goes back to, again, when you treat them, when you treat your employees in a way 279 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:23,480 that they're family or they're valued, then they're going to value your time. Because how many people 280 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:30,760 are sitting in a corporate job right now, making six figures, surfing the web. That's what I want 281 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:38,440 to avoid. I want you to be honest with yourself and with me. Hey, I'm just not feeling it today. 282 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:44,200 That's cool. Go do something. Don't sit at your desk. Because what's what that's going to do is, 283 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:51,400 you do that for three days, or a week, sitting at your desk doing nothing. How does that make 284 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:58,360 you feel as an individual? How does what type of productivity or loss is the business truly having 285 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:08,680 when we think you're working and you're not? And what type of benefit do we get out of that? I don't 286 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:16,920 think there is any. And so because you're lying not only to your company, but to yourself that I'm 287 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,200 going to go in and do something or be productive. I think there's just like a almost mental 288 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:28,280 gymnastics that you have to play with yourself to go into work every day. And I think that's 289 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:35,480 if you don't want to be there. So I would rather provide something that people enjoy working at 290 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:43,640 and recognize that, you know, if they get an opportunity to do something outside of work, 291 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:50,200 then take it. I'm going to work really hard because it's my thing. I want you to work really hard 292 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:57,320 because I want you to feel like you're a part of that. And you're part of the system that we are 293 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:03,560 implementing together. I've toyed around, you know, because I'm a small company and I'm young and I'm 294 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:11,640 able to kind of try different things. The other interesting aspect when we start talking about 295 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,880 like corporate structures or like business structures is there's generally this like pyramid 296 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:25,480 that you have where you have the CEO and the CEO has, you know, a manager under them or like a 297 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:33,560 series of managers under them. And then they all manage these employees under them. Right. And they 298 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:40,600 can trickle down depending on how large your organization is. And the way I've been trying 299 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:48,040 to structure and like talk about jobs in our company is basically everybody has a job. And 300 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:56,680 but it's linear. I, as the owner operator, have the same type of responsibilities as, you know, 301 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:07,320 my junior web developer that started with us. My kind of job structure is to manage and delegate 302 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:14,600 tasks. But I encourage those people to then say, you know, that doesn't make any sense to me. Or 303 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:22,440 don't you think we should do it this other way? Because it increases if you are willing as a 304 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:30,360 manager, as a owner to listen to your employees that are actually doing a majority of the work, 305 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:41,080 you're going to see an increase of ideas that can help produce better and more efficient products 306 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,360 long term. Yeah, I really think a lot of that just goes back to like a big theme of what we've been 307 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:54,680 talking about is respect, like treating them as an adult, treating them as a member of the team, as a 308 00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:02,840 partner rather than a cog rather than just employee number seven, right? Like being willing to, and I 309 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:09,400 think that a lot of that is is humility, being able to, as the owner, talk to the junior, and like, 310 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,400 hey, what are you seeing? Your boots on the ground. You have a very different, you're in this 40 hours 311 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,600 a week, right? You're seeing what's actually going on. Like, tell me about your perspective. What can 312 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:26,120 we do better? How can we improve this? And just being able to really take that as a valued opinion 313 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:33,160 and observation. Because again, that's going to raise up everybody else, not just that individual, 314 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:38,440 but make everybody more productive, make everybody more efficient, so you guys can achieve the overall 315 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:44,600 mission of what you're trying to do and provide value to the customers, and also make sure you 316 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:52,920 guys can get to the next year and beyond. Hey, everyone, just a quick message. You know that my 317 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,000 mission with this podcast is to share stories of influence and impact so that we can help more 318 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:03,320 people help more people. But to do that, I need your support. Please rate, review, and share this 319 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:09,880 podcast. If I could ask for just one favor, it's to just leave a review. It takes about 10 seconds 320 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,200 and a few clicks, but it means the world to me and could inspire someone else to make a difference. 321 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,760 Thank you so much. And now back to the show. 322 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:28,760 When you're hearing those people talk, I think it's also important to like read between the lines 323 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:36,360 a little bit too. When I was at my last company, I was very blunt because I felt like they didn't 324 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:45,800 hear me anymore. But I think employees will tell you without telling you things sometimes. Like 325 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:54,120 one of my biggest struggles was, like I said, you know, them not valuing my time. And 326 00:38:54,120 --> 00:39:03,240 we would take an entire two sprints, which was the equivalent of two months off of doing things. And 327 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:08,920 I said, hey, in this two months, why don't we improve all of these bugs? Like we don't have 328 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:16,440 anything going on. Let's go ahead and fix all these bugs. And they literally said no to me. I was like, 329 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,240 why do you not want to improve the product? So now I'm starting to think like, 330 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:28,600 is there something, are they trying to get rid of me? Or is it to do with, they just don't want 331 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:35,000 to do anything because it's the holidays, you know, like, and there's these weird kind of ideas 332 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:42,120 around that. But like my whole goal behind fixing those bugs was because it was causing downage 333 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:48,360 issues. So not only was it a problem for me, because now I'm on down calls all the time, 334 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:59,800 and I get back into that 60 hour work week. But I also like, it was terrible for the customers. So 335 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,840 the customers were complaining about this stuff. I was complaining about this stuff. And the only 336 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:12,200 people that were fine with it were upper management for some reason. And they didn't see, 337 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:18,360 they saw it more at the risk to fix things than it was to make things maintainable long term. 338 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:26,040 And when, and I will say, you know, we're talking a lot about business 339 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:34,280 for software development. It is a, software development in business is a very, very 340 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:42,360 different style of not only management, but like understanding where value comes from. 341 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:54,440 And it's, it's a big reason why I have started, or our company has started consulting for other 342 00:40:54,440 --> 00:41:00,360 firms, basically, like a firm comes in, they maybe they have a application, 343 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,360 that they provide for other customers, or it's just an internal application. 344 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:12,120 I think businesses, CTO, or like businesses or management that's never worked in software 345 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,360 development have a hard time managing that because it's such like an abstract thing. 346 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:26,040 And it's also very hard to equate productivity. Like you can see, like, 347 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:35,160 to equate productivity. Like you can see that with Twitter or X, when Elon Musk came in, 348 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,960 he started saying, you know, it was like a big joke with my developer friends and I, 349 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:46,840 hey, because he said, we're going to manage productivity based on how many lines of code 350 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:57,640 you write. And he fired some of the top level engineers at Twitter. Now, 351 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,200 if you're a software developer, and you hear that the number of lines of code that I write 352 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:11,560 is my productivity. There's kind of two ways that that goes. It's either, oh, okay, you need me to 353 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,240 write something super inefficient. Okay, no problem. So I'll write a bunch of code. So I look really 354 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:23,880 productive because that's how you're like measuring my success. The other side of it is, 355 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:35,000 if it like things that are extremely complex, take a lot of time for you to think about it in your 356 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:43,320 head, gather business requirements, do back end research of it to make sure that you're doing 357 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:49,720 things securely, doing things efficiently. So there are entire weeks sometimes that I don't 358 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:59,560 code at all. And, you know, that to a lot of business people who have never worked inside 359 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:05,800 of the tech field, see that as, oh, you were just wasting time. You didn't do anything. You didn't 360 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:12,360 write anything. You know, and I think when you have management that understands what you do, 361 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:20,600 they understand, hey, you know, maybe today is just a sit around and think about how I'm going 362 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:27,320 to do that. Because as soon as you start executing the code, you've kind of backed yourself into this 363 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:33,960 like structure. It's almost like building a house, right? So if I'm going to build a house, I need to 364 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:40,680 plan out where my foundation is. I'm going to plan out where, you know, all of our support beams are 365 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:47,800 before we go and we start building the house. And a lot of people don't view it that way. And 366 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,640 instead they just want the house, but they don't care about the foundation. They don't 367 00:43:51,640 --> 00:44:02,280 care about support beams. And it's also the idea of like having that like long term goal 368 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,920 when you talk about like whether it's your business or your application that you're building, 369 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:17,880 you have to understand where am I going with this? And so I try to like take a lot of the 370 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:25,960 a lot of the practices that I learned in development and like building out extremely large, 371 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:35,480 complicated and complex systems. And I try to like apply that to business, right? Like, 372 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:42,840 I understand that we do need to get the sprint done. You know, we need the two weeks that needs 373 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,400 to be done. But we also have to understand where is that two weeks going? So I think if you apply 374 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:54,200 that to like the business side of it, you're kind of like, well, we have this client, but really in 375 00:44:54,200 --> 00:45:00,840 five years, I want to be away from like individual clients. And maybe we're writing our own 376 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:07,640 applications and managing and structuring those. So how do we get to that? And then working with 377 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:16,040 your team and and like allowing them to contribute to the success of your company. So when, 378 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:28,600 you know, when I think that is like a, a issue when it comes to businesses like short sightedness, 379 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:34,440 because if you don't have a plan for where you're going, you're never going to get anywhere. 380 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:40,680 You're going to chase your tail. You're going to be worried about this break fix or that break fix, 381 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:48,440 you know, and that that can be in all sorts of ways. Like how do I manage? Like I'm seeing 382 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:55,080 tons of my employees leave. So instead of trying to keep people there and improving the ability 383 00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:01,720 for them to be successful, or for them to be excited to work there, you're not going to be 384 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:08,920 excited to work there. You're just churning out people. And that's like, that's not productive 385 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:23,400 for anyone. So I think a big takeaway is kind of when you when you are, whether you've started 386 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:31,560 your company, or, and you're, you know, 20 years in, or you're just starting today, just make sure 387 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:38,760 that you have goals for this foreseeable future. And it's okay if those goals change, you know, 388 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,600 like, I could have a five year goal. In fact, when I started my company, I had a five year goal. 389 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,680 And, you know, I'm at five years now, and it is very different than what I wanted to be at. 390 00:46:51,880 --> 00:47:00,360 So I think it's good to reassess year over year. Where are you going? What have you done? And what 391 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:10,600 have you done to get to where you want to be? And taking those type of goals, they can be like goals 392 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:18,520 where they're not, we have to do this. It's just a gives your company direction a little bit. 393 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:25,800 And I would also encourage your managers, like if you have management that you were taking it, 394 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:32,840 you know, that you're in charge of, make sure that your managers also have a goal for their teams. 395 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:41,400 Because without, you know, you could have everything up in your head, and have a view 396 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:47,000 of how to get there. But you need to work with them, so that everyone's visions are aligned, 397 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:54,040 so that you guys can be successful in business. And I think that with that being said, it's 398 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,080 mission and vision and alignment are something that I'm very passionate about. And I really believe 399 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:07,160 is really what is necessary for a business to grow for an organization to last, whether a 400 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:16,760 nonprofit or an LLC or sole proprietorship, right? It's more than just, we're here to make money. 401 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,960 Sure, you need to make money to survive, to get through quarter one and quarter two, 402 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:27,480 and to get to that five-year milestone. But if you're going to make it beyond that, 403 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:32,440 like there really is a lot more that goes into it. And I feel like that is something that a lot of, 404 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:37,000 especially in the corporate world that I've seen, what I've heard, where they kind of just go, 405 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:42,120 okay, well, we're just focused on getting it to next month. And that's where those weird, 406 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:49,240 I guess, milestones of, not even milestones, I don't think that's the right word, 407 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:53,320 those weird rules that they come up with, right? Oh, well, your productivity is based off of how 408 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:59,160 many lines of code you write. It's dependent on how often I walk by your desk and you're not 409 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,960 staring at a screen doing something, right? That's been something I've been told before is 410 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:09,880 look busy. What do you mean look busy? Like that's the dumbest thing. Like I would rather get all my 411 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:17,400 stuff done by three and leave. Why can't I do that? Like I'm wasting just as much time as I could be 412 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:23,080 going home and getting running errands, doing things at home that I want to do, getting off 413 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:28,840 early. And I really feel like that's like the big takeaway from today's call, from what I'm having 414 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:36,280 is, I guess, what treat your employees with respect, listen to them, truly listen to them, 415 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:44,200 and build a relationship based in honesty and candor in having that like individual responsibility 416 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:49,800 for the employee to do what they need to do, what they were hired for, but then also for you to take 417 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:55,640 that servant leadership role and say, hey, you're a person too. These are the things I need from you. 418 00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:01,160 This is what I want to the value I want you to create. These are the tools that you need to do it. 419 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:08,680 If you got it done, you got it done. Like thanks, go skydive, go do these other things. Because 420 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,520 again, what you're saying earlier, either otherwise, they're just going to see you as a stepping 421 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,200 stone. They're going to leave after a year or two, and then you're going to start all over again. 422 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,400 Whereas now you have this loyal employee, it sounds like that's been there for three and a half years 423 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:27,160 that you see as a part of the business, not just a means to an end. 424 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:35,960 And recognize their value and ensure that you are providing the tools for them to be successful, 425 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:45,560 feel valuable, and grow at your company. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean a 426 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:52,520 management position. That could just be providing the time and saying, hey, as part of your 427 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:58,520 leftover time for this week, I know that I only gave you 30 hours of work and you have four 428 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:04,360 additional hours. I want you to take that time and teach yourself something new. 429 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:15,240 Let's like, I want you to grow as a professional. And it's almost true that you want to view your 430 00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:22,840 employees as you are growing them so that they can leave and go and be successful somewhere else. 431 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:28,280 When you treat them that way, you don't have to necessarily say that to people. But when you treat 432 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:35,320 them in that way, like a teacher, a mentor, then they are going to want to stay with you. 433 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,880 But you're also going to be providing them the tools that they become better year over year for 434 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,320 you. And they're going to provide more value long term. 435 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:52,040 Exactly. And I think that's that's a mentality that I had because I'm trying to find some kind 436 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,200 of intern to help me out with a couple things or an 437 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,000 I guess intern would be the best thing for right now what I'm looking for with my where I'm at with 438 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,960 my business. But I'm like, I want to have that conversation with them like, hey, where do you 439 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:11,480 want to go? How can I align what I need from you with the help I need with your goals so that you 440 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:17,960 can leave here way better off than when you came? How can I as a leader as a as the CEO, as the 441 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:23,720 business owner, build you up as best as I can that still aligns with both of our goals? Like it's not 442 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:29,880 mutually exclusive. Like it can be beneficial on both sides. Sure. And then that's going to be what 443 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,920 works the best in my opinion, long term. And it sounds like that's true based off of your experience. 444 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:42,200 Yeah, based off of my experience, that's very true. And be willing to change to, you know, if you see 445 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:52,920 if you see a way that you can pivot and be more successful or like move in a direction that you 446 00:52:52,920 --> 00:53:01,880 didn't expect to go. I think that that's a really positive thing. You know, I think the year 2020 447 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,600 with COVID was the word of the year was pivot, right? Like how are you going to pivot your 448 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:13,800 company? And I think that that's like a strong and and like valuable lesson that especially young 449 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:20,840 entrepreneurs can learn when they are first starting. You haven't established anything yet. 450 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:28,200 You may have an idea of where you want to go, but let let life and and the world help guide you to 451 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:37,560 where you need to go. You know, I never thought I would be, you know, a consultant at a very large 452 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:45,640 nonprofit here. That was not where I was planning on being, you know, and having my company run as 453 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:54,040 like a consulting firm. But you know, my the I'm very thankful and grateful and I love love going 454 00:53:54,040 --> 00:54:05,560 into work every day. It's it's such a nice relief after, you know, I left my last job. So and and 455 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:13,880 provide that for other people. I think we're going to if we can do one thing in this world while 456 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:19,720 we're here, it's to try and make it slightly better for other people. Right. So, 457 00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:24,280 I think that's a beautiful way to end off this episode. Make the world better, help more people, 458 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:29,240 help more people. I think that's really the the message overall that I want folks to walk away 459 00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:36,200 with from this podcast as a whole. So start if people want to work with you or learn more about 460 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,600 you and your company, where would be the best place for them to find you? 461 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:45,080 They can check us out on LinkedIn or they can look us up Sky Labs, 462 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:51,400 technology.io. Perfect start. All right. Well, all that information will be down in the show notes, 463 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:57,480 but I super appreciate you taking the time out of your day to talk to us and share your thoughts on 464 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:03,880 employee-employer relationships and how that is really just the catalyst for success and how 465 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:08,920 business is moving in the future. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate. 466 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,880 Thanks for having me. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Within Range Coaching Podcast. 467 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,440 We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and thought provoking. Today, 468 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:23,240 we cover the importance of balancing short-term productivity with your long-term vision, 469 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:29,400 the pitfalls of measuring success solely by lines of code and the critical need to value and invest 470 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:35,480 in your employees. Remember that fostering an environment of respect for your employees is 471 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,640 not only beneficial to your team, but also drives the long-term success of your business. 472 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,880 Join us next time for more stories from folks I've met along my journey across the country. 473 00:55:43,880 --> 00:56:05,240 And as always, remember to have fun, stay safe and be yourself. I'll catch you in the next one. Bye.