Hello everyone and welcome to the Within Range Coaching Podcast. I'm Ranger, a certified
holistic success coach, and in this podcast, I break down the journey entrepreneurs face
as they start their organizations, overcome roadblocks in their way, and create an impact
that lasts. We talk with entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, and purpose-driven community members
just like you. Together, we learn how to grow our impact and develop ourselves as the people
behind the mission. My intention is to help more people, help more people. And remember,
if you're curious about expanding your impact, growing a community, or defining your mission,
vision, or values, we can chat off the record. You can find my info in the show notes or at my
website withinrangecoaching.com. We're also looking to build our sponsor community with
organizations and individuals who align with our values of fearless innovation, social responsibility,
and courageous candor. If you're interested in helping us highlight individuals doing great work
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I know you're just as eager to get started as I am, so let's jump right in.
Welcome to another episode of the Within Range Coaching Podcast. In today's episode,
we're joined by Star Rayburn, an expert in software development and business management
who shares valuable insights into the intersection of both of those fields. We'll explore the
challenges of managing tech projects, the importance of long-term vision in business,
and the crucial role of respecting and valuing your employees and their time. If you've ever
wondered how to balance productivity and employee satisfaction, or how to plan your company for
sustainable growth, this episode is for you. Let's jump right in. I'm continuing on with my
Walk Across America series where I am highlighting the nonprofit leaders, entrepreneurs, and community
members that I meet along my way that in some way, shape, or form have helped me along my journey.
And today we have a guest that has been so, so helpful and impactful on my journey, especially
getting into the good old city of Amarillo here in Texas. We're recording from Texas right now
before I start my journey and my little jaunt through New Mexico and the hot states. So by
the time you hear this, I will be somewhere in the middle of Arizona or New Mexico. But instead of
focusing too much on that, I'm going to hang out with my new good friend and owner of Sky Labs
Technology, which is a software development firm based out of Amarillo, Texas, Star Rayburn. Star,
how are you doing today? Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thanks for taking
the time to hang out with us today. And Star, I have never had a software or tech or anything
like that business on the podcast just yet. And I know that we have a very specific topic of
discussion for today that's a little bit different than what people may think. But before we jump
too straight into today's topic, could you just give us a quick introduction of who you are and
what your intention for today's episode is? Sure. As you said, I'm Star Rayburn, run Skylabs
Technology that does software development and primarily focused on web and mobile applications.
We also build backends for all sorts of companies throughout the area and across all of America.
So the main things that I wanted to focus on today is why did I start a business? And where
do we see business going over the next few years? You and I are both young. A lot of the businesses
that we see are run by older individuals who have their own kind of perceptions of how employees
should act. And I think what I'm trying to do is kind of turn that on their head a little bit as
I see the younger generation coming up and what their expectations are. So we've had a lot of
success in the way that we run our company. And just kind of want to share that with everybody
else to see maybe we can shift the view of work inside of America. Yeah, which I think is such an
interesting topic, especially like you're saying as these generations kind of flip and was like
the baby boomers, they start to retire or they start to leave the business world. Like it's really
up to the millennials, the Gen Zers that are coming up to find what works best for us and what works
best for the industries that we go into overall. And I think that employer relations are going to
be one of those biggest factors that determine the success of a business moving forward. And I
think that's such a valuable conversation to have. I mean, I don't have any employees right now
myself, but in the next two, three, four, five years, I can definitely see within range kind of
bringing on more folks. So I'm really excited to hear what your guys take is on, what is it like
hours and compensation and how all of that really works beyond just the numbers. Yeah, definitely.
And I think from my perspective, you know, I am someone who, you know, I graduated high school in
2006. It was right before the housing market crash. So we had like a really hard time finding work.
I'm originally actually from Arizona. So I'm sorry that you're walking through there during the
summer, but because the industry was so difficult to get into, and actually was not doing software
development when I got out of school, I had to jump around jobs. And so I had a lot of experience
as a worker in a lot of different industries. When I got my first tech job, I was working for a
pharmaceutical company. And it was awesome. The environment was really cool. Everyone was super
helpful. It was privately owned. I could go and walk up to the CEO's office and sit down and have
a glass of whiskey with him if I wanted to, you know, and he was really open and cool. And then a
few years into doing that, you know, he sold off the company because he was getting older. And he
had a really strong view of like employee employer relationship, he he wanted to make sure that if
you stayed there, you were getting paid, you were getting compensated. Everybody was they worked
hard, and they played hard. And the company supported that. When corporate came in, they like
destroyed all of that environment. And I think that was something that was extremely difficult
for me to see. And it's, it's a big reason that I jumped off and started my own company. I think
that talking with the younger generation, and what they expect out of work, I think there's this
expectation of, I have a life outside of work. And I will work for you, and I work hard, but your
money doesn't give you a right to own my life. And I think that especially in a corporate structure,
there is that where I'm a salaried employee. But if you have to work 60 hours, that's, that's just
what you do, because it's part of your job. And I really disagree with that viewpoint. So some of
the steps that I've taken to kind of mitigate that is to, we as a company don't offer any PTO, we
treat as everyone is adults. So I guess instead of no PTO, it's unlimited PTO. So if you feel like
you don't want to come into work that day, you want to do something else, that's fine. As long as
you're keeping up with your work, and you're being responsible, and communicating, we treat you like
a brother, you know, like, hey, I can't come over today. Oh, no worries. Let's do it next week.
Okay, so I think that there's what that lends us. And you know, because of the industry, I do have
the ability to not have someone come in, and it's not going to kill me. We also have like the
luxury of saying things like, hey, if you want to work four hours a day, every day out of the week,
that's fine. We've also implemented things like 32 to 34 hour work weeks. What we've seen with that
is basically increase in productivity, where people feel like they have less time to get things done.
So when they come in, they're ready. And they're going to sit down, work extremely hard to get the
things done that they need to do so that they don't have to work late. They don't have to do the
things that they need to do. And when I lend that opportunity for people to be able to create their
own work hours, to do things like take off at any time that they want, and to spend time with their
families, it lends us or gives us the ability to ask them, hey, we have meetings that are outside of
your schedule time, would you mind coming in? And they'll work harder and want to facilitate that
for you, because you're doing the same for them. And so I think the way that I've seen companies
view employees, and the way I try to view employees is very different. Just because we don't
really need a business who is going to see you as an item that they can use, is not going to be able
to sustain a lifestyle over a long period of time. You know, we're seeing generations switch jobs
every two to three years. In fact, when I first started software development, one of my first
mentors I had, he was a senior software developer at Google. And this guy told me, hey, go and get a
job, work there for one year, move. Okay, get that job, move again, because that's how you make more
money. You know, you're going to start at $65,000, you're going to move, you're going to make 80,
you're going to move, you're going to make 100, you're going to move, you're going to make 125.
Because if you stay in a single location, they don't see value. And he said, you know, what's crazy
is I went, I wanted to work at Google, I got a job here. I asked for more money, they said no. So I
left, I went and worked for Microsoft for two years. And I came back and I got more money than
I originally asked from Google. And he said, it's ridiculous to me that a business doesn't see any
value and you stay in. And I think you can see that through the way they treat employees, the way
they like their policies that they put in place, these ideas of, you know, minimum raises, like a
1%, 3% raise that doesn't cover even inflation. I mean, that to me, is unacceptable. And I think
it's what we're trying to fight and try to stay really conscious of. Talking about raises, we try
to look at first, everybody gets a inflation raise, because you shouldn't have to pay to work
somewhere. Because truly, if you don't make inflation, then you're paying money to work
somewhere. So that's like our first step. And then we look at how did you do as an employee, and
we'll give you an additional percentage on top of the inflation rates. So those are some of the
things that I try to focus on as far as dealing with my employees. And again, you know, my
employees will stay with me. You know, I've had, I've owned my company now for five years, and I've
had one employee that has stayed with me for three and a half years. And he basically got hired in.
And that's where he is. We've never lost a single employee. We're just continually growing. I think
really, you know, the things that I want to stress to anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur or is
an entrepreneur is recognize that your company is yours, right? It's your baby. So you saying I'm
willing to come in and work all these extra hours. And that makes sense, because it's your brain
child, right? The people that work for you, you should not expect that out of them. They're here
to do a job, and they're going to do their job well. But if, if you're trying to push your views
and feelings on them, based on like how you want your business to be successful, and you want
people to work really hard, that's not a motivation for them. They don't have the same type of view of
the company. It's a job for them. You know, because if they wanted to have that same type of view,
they would go and start their own company. But not everybody is an entrepreneur like you. So make
sure that you're being really conscious of that. Ensure that you're treating your employees with
respect and treating them like adults like they are. Because the more you treat them like children,
the more they'll act like children. Yeah, and that's, that's such an interesting thing to bring up,
too, is because I mean, my goodness, on all of these, when I was on the job hunt, it's, you know,
we're looking for someone with an entrepreneurial mindset. It's like no one, no, you're not.
You're looking for certain qualities that could be shared between those two. But if someone's an
entrepreneur, like true and true, they're going to want to start their own thing. They're not going
to necessarily want to work for someone. And I think that's a very valuable thing to bring up is
that with when it comes to your business, nobody's going to care about it as much as you do. And if
somebody cares about it more than you do, like there's a problem there. Right. That it's not
aligning with your values or what you want to do. Or I guess that's a whole other podcast,
potentially, right? Or another episode. Welcome to the mountaintop. Are you an entrepreneur or
nonprofit leader ready to make a bigger impact in the world, but aren't quite sure how to do it,
or even where to start? Then join the NeverPeak community on school, where bold movers, shakers,
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Our goal is to help leaders change the world by first focusing on themselves, by fostering community
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skool.com forward slash never dash peak, or hit the link in the show notes to claim your spot on
the mountain. Again, be sure you get in now, because I cannot wait to see you there and witness the
peaks you'll reach in just a few weeks. In terms of the success that you've seen with your employee
with giving them these benefits, the unlimited PTO, the flexible work hours, it sounds like you're a
lot more results and product driven in terms of, hey, this is what these, from what I can kind of
hear in our previous conversations, you looked at it more so as, okay, this is what I need out of an
employee, this is the product that I need. I'm going to hire someone that can do those things,
rather than I need a warm body that can work 40 plus hours a week. What is that differentiation
between being, I guess, outcome driven versus time driven? Yeah, well, even in any company, you can
see employees are, there are certain employees that are going to be more proficient than other
employees. And I think recognizing that a person who is proficient shouldn't get more work as the
benefit, right? Like, hey, congratulations, you did such a great job today, here's more responsibility
with no pay, right? That's kind of an easy thing to do. And when I'm consulting with other firms
that I work with, that's one thing that I talk with management about, hey, you know, just because
these people are doing a really good job, don't give them more work with no benefit. Make sure
that you are giving them, either you are reducing the, or giving them more flexibility, or you're
compensating them in money. So money, time, benefits, those are the things that you can do
to say, hey, you know, if you do this extra thing, you know, we'll give you a half day on Friday.
I think that's like a benefit that people will say, well, cool, like I was just doing what I thought
I should be doing. And look, I get all this extra, you know, this extra benefit. And I think like,
for me, and again, this kind of goes back to my industry, it allows for the ability to have a
production driven employment line, right? So I have X amount of tasks that I need them to get done
in a specific amount of time. If they're done with that, sure, is there other stuff I could have them
do? Yeah. But are they doing busy work at that point? Maybe. And from my perspective, I kind of
look at each individual person I work with, and say, what do I think they can get done? Not
what can I get done and then give that them? Yeah, or give that to them. But like, learning
your employees, understanding what their capacity is, and then giving them things they can be
successful in. Because I think one thing that I struggled with at the last company I was at, is
that I didn't feel like I could be successful. And that was really disappointing. And I think
that was really discouraging. Where I got to the point where I was like, I don't even want to go
into work today, not because I don't feel good, or anything. But it's just, it's not fun anymore.
And like, I think jobs should be entertaining, fun to do. I should enjoy what I do. And if I
didn't, I could go and get a minimum wage job working somewhere and just do that. But like, for
me, it's really important to enjoy what I do 40 to 60 hours a week. So when I jumped off and started
my own company, I took a huge pay cut. That's okay, though, to me, because the quality of work is
much better. I can pick and choose what I want to do. And I think those are the things that I
those benefits outweigh just like value in dollars. Another thing like about employees in the new
generation coming up is, it's this gig economy structure, where everybody's working four jobs,
but they only work like 10 hours a week, doing them, or passive income. So they're all looking
for ways to not have to work. So and they will be successful in it. Like it's not this idea of,
well, that's just a fad. It's this is the future for us, how I view it. It's this gig economy. It's
the structure of how can I increase the time that I get to do what I want, while making enough money
to get by. And I think there are still people that are money driven. But I think at the end of the day,
a majority of people will stay somewhere where quality of life and quality of work
come together beautifully. So it's where I try to focus on, you know, I try to focus on on that
aspect when I'm dealing with employees. Yeah, and there's a few different things that I want
to kind of highlight. There's the the gig economy aspect, and then value beyond money. And with the
gig, I guess, economy or mindset or whatever you want to call it, I feel like, you know, TikTok,
social media, one of the good things slash we can get into that in a second, I guess. But it's it's
showing people that there's more opportunity and possibility out there than just the status quo of
work 40 hours plus a week for the next 40 years. And then maybe you'll retire and then you get to
sit at home. Right. Like there's there's a whole dream. There's a whole, I guess, vision that's
kind of sold with that. It's not just invest your money here and make passive income. It's so that
you can blank. And there's much more to it than just surviving, which again, it's very different
than what it was 100 200 300 years ago. Sure. We're not even five years ago. Yeah, even even
yeah, not that many years ago. Right. It's like it's it's not just about surviving. It's really
about thriving. Like what does it mean to work? And I think with the rise, maybe you can speak
to this more with technology, with artificial intelligence. Like there's certain tasks that
are automated now that now we can start focusing on true actualization and what we really want out
of being alive than just making enough to make rent and survive. What do you think about that?
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that there's a lot to unpack there. We have I think.
Kind of the way of the future as I see it is eventually we'll probably all get on
universal basic income because at some point.
AI or there's not going to be enough jobs for us, whether that's 100 years in the future,
200 years in the future, 20 years in the future, it's going to happen. And so I think instead of
pushing back, I think we need to embrace it and start to shift and mold the way we do business,
the way we view life and not to not to say there isn't like value in work, because I think at the
at the core, human humans want to be productive. They want to have something to do because nobody
wants to sit around their house all day and watch TV because even people that are doing like I'm
going to sit in my room and play video games all day.
They're sitting in their room playing video games.
Being social and feeling productive. That's why they play those types of games.
So I think when we're looking at the way we structure business for the future, we have to
recognize the fact that pay is like a true piece of your puzzle. But there's also like if you can
provide a way that people get to like honestly, I had one of my employees went skydiving on Thursday,
you know, and he said, Hey, I'm going to go skydiving today. And I was like, Okay, cool.
That sounds fun. That sounds terrifying to me. But sure, you know, and I think we
him having the opportunity in which he gets to go and do whatever he wants whenever he wants,
as long as he like, wraps up his work by the end of the week, and says like he puts a button on it
and says like, Okay, I'm done. Then that to me, provides so much value. I think the way of the
world is, you know, technology. And it's kind of interesting, you know, based around technology
and being a software development company, a lot of people are worried about AI, and they're
worried about AI, taking over their jobs. And if your job is literally just development all day,
then I mean, I've never had a job like that. A majority of it is sitting in meetings,
understanding how the business works. And I think there's always going to be an increase of,
or like a increase in necessity for other types of jobs. And like, instead of trying to push back
on change, or like, say, well, you need to protect this, you need to protect that, I think I try to
embrace whatever's coming and say, you know, if chat GPT is going to write code in the future,
then what we need to do is we need to start using chat GPT to increase our productivity,
so we don't have to work as long. Right? Because then I get to go and do something that I want to
do, that's outside of work. And I don't know, I don't see, I don't see value in busy work. If
that makes sense, you know, like, there are some things that, that have to be done. But I don't
want to try to keep someone here doing something for no reason. And I don't know if maybe it's just
the industry I'm in, or, and maybe it's just who I am as a person. But that kind of stuff frustrates
me. And I think what really drove me to become an entrepreneur is I, you know, I identified
problems, I saw things that were affecting my day to day life. You know, the last four months I was
there, I was on a phone call for three weeks straight. Like I slept on the phone. And I'm,
and when like it all was over, because I understood, hey, this stuff is happening. I'm the
person that can fix it. What are we going to do? Let's get it done. And that was fulfilling to me,
to some degree. But when it was done, there was no compensation. Like, what did I get? They offered
me a piddly raise, you know, they didn't understand that they just took, you know, over
400 hours of my time away from me that they're not paying me for because I'm salaried.
Like, I don't understand where they think that's okay. And when quality of life gets trumped by
the job. I think that that's where people and where the younger generation, they didn't have
the younger generation did not have the same work, even in a minimum wage job that we did,
like me, I'm 35. And a minimum wage job, it wasn't good money by any means, but it was definitely
better than it is today. You know, working at a minimum wage job now, you work 40 hours, and you
probably can't even pay rent. You know, so now you're going to work a minimum wage job with three
other people, and you guys are going to live in a tiny confined space that's impossible for you to
do anything, be creative, get the rest you need, be able to study and go to school. Like, I feel
like we're setting our, our younger generation up with impossible feats and tasks. And it's kind of
why they're moving into that like gig economy type structure where they're like, you know what,
I'll just go and work at Uber for 20 hours, and I make more money at an Uber in 20 hours than I did
working at Walmart, you know, or McDonald's. And it's, it's, I think we just have to be really
conscious of that, you know? Yeah, and I think it's just, again, that just showing that there's,
it sounds like it's, we're kind of backed into a different corner than other generations were.
Like right now, it's a lot of it is minimum wage just is impossible to live off of in some case,
in most cases, probably all of them, honestly. But it's like it's being able to move into and
seeing that possibility of Uber, of these other aspects that can actually move you forward in some
way, shape or form, which I think is so interesting, like seeing like at the last job that I had before
I started my walk, I worked as a county inspector, and certain like fast food companies were almost
paying as much as I was making. And it's just like so interesting seeing that that shifts in terms of
how people are how these corporations have businesses value employee time. And it sounds
like a lot of your motivation for starting your business beyond just I want to own my own thing,
I want to create something was creating a good space to work, much like that very first job that
you had with the first CEO that gave you that flexibility, that gave you that freedom that gave
you that freedom that gave you that. I'm not just a number I'm not just a resource, I'm a partner
in the mission of what we're trying to create here. And it sounds like a lot of people that are
younger that are starting businesses take that as a core value of their business,
of providing a great place to work beyond just basic pay and benefits.
Yeah, and I think it goes back to, again, when you treat them, when you treat your employees in a way
that they're family or they're valued, then they're going to value your time. Because how many people
are sitting in a corporate job right now, making six figures, surfing the web. That's what I want
to avoid. I want you to be honest with yourself and with me. Hey, I'm just not feeling it today.
That's cool. Go do something. Don't sit at your desk. Because what's what that's going to do is,
you do that for three days, or a week, sitting at your desk doing nothing. How does that make
you feel as an individual? How does what type of productivity or loss is the business truly having
when we think you're working and you're not? And what type of benefit do we get out of that? I don't
think there is any. And so because you're lying not only to your company, but to yourself that I'm
going to go in and do something or be productive. I think there's just like a almost mental
gymnastics that you have to play with yourself to go into work every day. And I think that's
if you don't want to be there. So I would rather provide something that people enjoy working at
and recognize that, you know, if they get an opportunity to do something outside of work,
then take it. I'm going to work really hard because it's my thing. I want you to work really hard
because I want you to feel like you're a part of that. And you're part of the system that we are
implementing together. I've toyed around, you know, because I'm a small company and I'm young and I'm
able to kind of try different things. The other interesting aspect when we start talking about
like corporate structures or like business structures is there's generally this like pyramid
that you have where you have the CEO and the CEO has, you know, a manager under them or like a
series of managers under them. And then they all manage these employees under them. Right. And they
can trickle down depending on how large your organization is. And the way I've been trying
to structure and like talk about jobs in our company is basically everybody has a job. And
but it's linear. I, as the owner operator, have the same type of responsibilities as, you know,
my junior web developer that started with us. My kind of job structure is to manage and delegate
tasks. But I encourage those people to then say, you know, that doesn't make any sense to me. Or
don't you think we should do it this other way? Because it increases if you are willing as a
manager, as a owner to listen to your employees that are actually doing a majority of the work,
you're going to see an increase of ideas that can help produce better and more efficient products
long term. Yeah, I really think a lot of that just goes back to like a big theme of what we've been
talking about is respect, like treating them as an adult, treating them as a member of the team, as a
partner rather than a cog rather than just employee number seven, right? Like being willing to, and I
think that a lot of that is is humility, being able to, as the owner, talk to the junior, and like,
hey, what are you seeing? Your boots on the ground. You have a very different, you're in this 40 hours
a week, right? You're seeing what's actually going on. Like, tell me about your perspective. What can
we do better? How can we improve this? And just being able to really take that as a valued opinion
and observation. Because again, that's going to raise up everybody else, not just that individual,
but make everybody more productive, make everybody more efficient, so you guys can achieve the overall
mission of what you're trying to do and provide value to the customers, and also make sure you
guys can get to the next year and beyond. Hey, everyone, just a quick message. You know that my
mission with this podcast is to share stories of influence and impact so that we can help more
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Thank you so much. And now back to the show.
When you're hearing those people talk, I think it's also important to like read between the lines
a little bit too. When I was at my last company, I was very blunt because I felt like they didn't
hear me anymore. But I think employees will tell you without telling you things sometimes. Like
one of my biggest struggles was, like I said, you know, them not valuing my time. And
we would take an entire two sprints, which was the equivalent of two months off of doing things. And
I said, hey, in this two months, why don't we improve all of these bugs? Like we don't have
anything going on. Let's go ahead and fix all these bugs. And they literally said no to me. I was like,
why do you not want to improve the product? So now I'm starting to think like,
is there something, are they trying to get rid of me? Or is it to do with, they just don't want
to do anything because it's the holidays, you know, like, and there's these weird kind of ideas
around that. But like my whole goal behind fixing those bugs was because it was causing downage
issues. So not only was it a problem for me, because now I'm on down calls all the time,
and I get back into that 60 hour work week. But I also like, it was terrible for the customers. So
the customers were complaining about this stuff. I was complaining about this stuff. And the only
people that were fine with it were upper management for some reason. And they didn't see,
they saw it more at the risk to fix things than it was to make things maintainable long term.
And when, and I will say, you know, we're talking a lot about business
for software development. It is a, software development in business is a very, very
different style of not only management, but like understanding where value comes from.
And it's, it's a big reason why I have started, or our company has started consulting for other
firms, basically, like a firm comes in, they maybe they have a application,
that they provide for other customers, or it's just an internal application.
I think businesses, CTO, or like businesses or management that's never worked in software
development have a hard time managing that because it's such like an abstract thing.
And it's also very hard to equate productivity. Like you can see, like,
to equate productivity. Like you can see that with Twitter or X, when Elon Musk came in,
he started saying, you know, it was like a big joke with my developer friends and I,
hey, because he said, we're going to manage productivity based on how many lines of code
you write. And he fired some of the top level engineers at Twitter. Now,
if you're a software developer, and you hear that the number of lines of code that I write
is my productivity. There's kind of two ways that that goes. It's either, oh, okay, you need me to
write something super inefficient. Okay, no problem. So I'll write a bunch of code. So I look really
productive because that's how you're like measuring my success. The other side of it is,
if it like things that are extremely complex, take a lot of time for you to think about it in your
head, gather business requirements, do back end research of it to make sure that you're doing
things securely, doing things efficiently. So there are entire weeks sometimes that I don't
code at all. And, you know, that to a lot of business people who have never worked inside
of the tech field, see that as, oh, you were just wasting time. You didn't do anything. You didn't
write anything. You know, and I think when you have management that understands what you do,
they understand, hey, you know, maybe today is just a sit around and think about how I'm going
to do that. Because as soon as you start executing the code, you've kind of backed yourself into this
like structure. It's almost like building a house, right? So if I'm going to build a house, I need to
plan out where my foundation is. I'm going to plan out where, you know, all of our support beams are
before we go and we start building the house. And a lot of people don't view it that way. And
instead they just want the house, but they don't care about the foundation. They don't
care about support beams. And it's also the idea of like having that like long term goal
when you talk about like whether it's your business or your application that you're building,
you have to understand where am I going with this? And so I try to like take a lot of the
a lot of the practices that I learned in development and like building out extremely large,
complicated and complex systems. And I try to like apply that to business, right? Like,
I understand that we do need to get the sprint done. You know, we need the two weeks that needs
to be done. But we also have to understand where is that two weeks going? So I think if you apply
that to like the business side of it, you're kind of like, well, we have this client, but really in
five years, I want to be away from like individual clients. And maybe we're writing our own
applications and managing and structuring those. So how do we get to that? And then working with
your team and and like allowing them to contribute to the success of your company. So when,
you know, when I think that is like a, a issue when it comes to businesses like short sightedness,
because if you don't have a plan for where you're going, you're never going to get anywhere.
You're going to chase your tail. You're going to be worried about this break fix or that break fix,
you know, and that that can be in all sorts of ways. Like how do I manage? Like I'm seeing
tons of my employees leave. So instead of trying to keep people there and improving the ability
for them to be successful, or for them to be excited to work there, you're not going to be
excited to work there. You're just churning out people. And that's like, that's not productive
for anyone. So I think a big takeaway is kind of when you when you are, whether you've started
your company, or, and you're, you know, 20 years in, or you're just starting today, just make sure
that you have goals for this foreseeable future. And it's okay if those goals change, you know,
like, I could have a five year goal. In fact, when I started my company, I had a five year goal.
And, you know, I'm at five years now, and it is very different than what I wanted to be at.
So I think it's good to reassess year over year. Where are you going? What have you done? And what
have you done to get to where you want to be? And taking those type of goals, they can be like goals
where they're not, we have to do this. It's just a gives your company direction a little bit.
And I would also encourage your managers, like if you have management that you were taking it,
you know, that you're in charge of, make sure that your managers also have a goal for their teams.
Because without, you know, you could have everything up in your head, and have a view
of how to get there. But you need to work with them, so that everyone's visions are aligned,
so that you guys can be successful in business. And I think that with that being said, it's
mission and vision and alignment are something that I'm very passionate about. And I really believe
is really what is necessary for a business to grow for an organization to last, whether a
nonprofit or an LLC or sole proprietorship, right? It's more than just, we're here to make money.
Sure, you need to make money to survive, to get through quarter one and quarter two,
and to get to that five-year milestone. But if you're going to make it beyond that,
like there really is a lot more that goes into it. And I feel like that is something that a lot of,
especially in the corporate world that I've seen, what I've heard, where they kind of just go,
okay, well, we're just focused on getting it to next month. And that's where those weird,
I guess, milestones of, not even milestones, I don't think that's the right word,
those weird rules that they come up with, right? Oh, well, your productivity is based off of how
many lines of code you write. It's dependent on how often I walk by your desk and you're not
staring at a screen doing something, right? That's been something I've been told before is
look busy. What do you mean look busy? Like that's the dumbest thing. Like I would rather get all my
stuff done by three and leave. Why can't I do that? Like I'm wasting just as much time as I could be
going home and getting running errands, doing things at home that I want to do, getting off
early. And I really feel like that's like the big takeaway from today's call, from what I'm having
is, I guess, what treat your employees with respect, listen to them, truly listen to them,
and build a relationship based in honesty and candor in having that like individual responsibility
for the employee to do what they need to do, what they were hired for, but then also for you to take
that servant leadership role and say, hey, you're a person too. These are the things I need from you.
This is what I want to the value I want you to create. These are the tools that you need to do it.
If you got it done, you got it done. Like thanks, go skydive, go do these other things. Because
again, what you're saying earlier, either otherwise, they're just going to see you as a stepping
stone. They're going to leave after a year or two, and then you're going to start all over again.
Whereas now you have this loyal employee, it sounds like that's been there for three and a half years
that you see as a part of the business, not just a means to an end.
And recognize their value and ensure that you are providing the tools for them to be successful,
feel valuable, and grow at your company. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean a
management position. That could just be providing the time and saying, hey, as part of your
leftover time for this week, I know that I only gave you 30 hours of work and you have four
additional hours. I want you to take that time and teach yourself something new.
Let's like, I want you to grow as a professional. And it's almost true that you want to view your
employees as you are growing them so that they can leave and go and be successful somewhere else.
When you treat them that way, you don't have to necessarily say that to people. But when you treat
them in that way, like a teacher, a mentor, then they are going to want to stay with you.
But you're also going to be providing them the tools that they become better year over year for
you. And they're going to provide more value long term.
Exactly. And I think that's that's a mentality that I had because I'm trying to find some kind
of intern to help me out with a couple things or an
I guess intern would be the best thing for right now what I'm looking for with my where I'm at with
my business. But I'm like, I want to have that conversation with them like, hey, where do you
want to go? How can I align what I need from you with the help I need with your goals so that you
can leave here way better off than when you came? How can I as a leader as a as the CEO, as the
business owner, build you up as best as I can that still aligns with both of our goals? Like it's not
mutually exclusive. Like it can be beneficial on both sides. Sure. And then that's going to be what
works the best in my opinion, long term. And it sounds like that's true based off of your experience.
Yeah, based off of my experience, that's very true. And be willing to change to, you know, if you see
if you see a way that you can pivot and be more successful or like move in a direction that you
didn't expect to go. I think that that's a really positive thing. You know, I think the year 2020
with COVID was the word of the year was pivot, right? Like how are you going to pivot your
company? And I think that that's like a strong and and like valuable lesson that especially young
entrepreneurs can learn when they are first starting. You haven't established anything yet.
You may have an idea of where you want to go, but let let life and and the world help guide you to
where you need to go. You know, I never thought I would be, you know, a consultant at a very large
nonprofit here. That was not where I was planning on being, you know, and having my company run as
like a consulting firm. But you know, my the I'm very thankful and grateful and I love love going
into work every day. It's it's such a nice relief after, you know, I left my last job. So and and
provide that for other people. I think we're going to if we can do one thing in this world while
we're here, it's to try and make it slightly better for other people. Right. So,
I think that's a beautiful way to end off this episode. Make the world better, help more people,
help more people. I think that's really the the message overall that I want folks to walk away
with from this podcast as a whole. So start if people want to work with you or learn more about
you and your company, where would be the best place for them to find you?
They can check us out on LinkedIn or they can look us up Sky Labs,
technology.io. Perfect start. All right. Well, all that information will be down in the show notes,
but I super appreciate you taking the time out of your day to talk to us and share your thoughts on
employee-employer relationships and how that is really just the catalyst for success and how
business is moving in the future. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Within Range Coaching Podcast.
We really hope that you found our discussion insightful and thought provoking. Today,
we cover the importance of balancing short-term productivity with your long-term vision,
the pitfalls of measuring success solely by lines of code and the critical need to value and invest
in your employees. Remember that fostering an environment of respect for your employees is
not only beneficial to your team, but also drives the long-term success of your business.
Join us next time for more stories from folks I've met along my journey across the country.
And as always, remember to have fun, stay safe and be yourself. I'll catch you in the next one. Bye.