Jon Paul Driver 0:07 Welcome to the Hay Matters podcast brought to you by LocalAg and Feed Central. This is your go to source for all things hay related in Australia. I'm your host, Jon Paul Driver, in today's episode, we're joined again by Matt Eckert, this is our second go around, so welcome back. Matt Eckert 0:26 G'day, Jon, it's nice to be back. Jon Paul Driver 0:28 Take me through your support networks. What does that look like for you personally or for the farm business? Matt Eckert 0:35 I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, and yet in these tough times, Jon is family. Like family is just number one. I mean, we're a family owned and run business. We we family people. So our farms grown a lot over the last 20 odd years. And it's not just my family anymore relying on us making good decisions. It's, you know, there's families relying on us making good decisions now, my team guys that they have their own families, all of that, so you gotta rely on those people closest to you. It's number one. And then obviously, you know, good relationship with your bank. Jon Paul Driver 1:11 You better hope that your bank is playing the long game too. Matt Eckert 1:15 You better hope they're playing the long game. But also, you want to make sure you've built a relationship over the times when times have been good with your bank, because you're asking them to maybe bend the rules slightly for you now, and you just got to be careful about that reputation with your bank. And we have a beautiful reputation with our bank, and it works very well, and that that backing us 100% so your bank, your your accountants, your succession planners, all those type of people, your agronomists, you know, and your team, like, you just gotta be, just gotta, you know, watch the guys that are coming along for the ride with you too. Like, you know, it's tough that they're worried about their jobs. That's the last thing I'd ever want to do, is lay anybody off. And so we do our absolute best to keep everything running and try and keep going at it as big a capacity as we can, to keep everyone you know employed and ensure them that their jobs are safe. We'll make something work. Very fortunate Jon that we got huge network now, and our farm is known like sometimes it blows my mind. How, how far we're known, actually, and the opportunities that come from there is just phenomenal. And at times of need like this, you can call on those types of networks that you've built over the years, and they can help you threw it so a bit of off farm income and things like that, and it's certainly a big help when times get tough. Jon Paul Driver 2:46 Now you just mentioned off farm income, and I distinctly remember you talking about three trucks that you took to WA and it was a kilometre to walk around and check the tires. Matt Eckert 3:01 Probably very hard to fathom for yourself, Jon, but we don't have trucks like that. We're talking road trains out to 53 metres. So you just, you get out your door and you walk around the truck, you've just walked 100 metres. And if you walk around two of the trucks, well, yeah, you've actually walked a fair way. You know, things have... It blows my mind actually, Jon to to think about the things we do like, I mean, I don't know what it looks like from the outside, but, you know, there's so much going on at this place, it blows my mind, actually. And just I never thought we'd be doing things like, like that. And, I mean, we did that big job up there and up to we were up in Broome, in WA we did that in the hardest season we'd had, in 2022 we just had, we had shit going everywhere. You know, it was a big season, and yet we knuckled down and did that job. And I'm so glad we did, because now times are tough. You know, it's good to know that those jobs, we did them when we were struggling, and now those jobs are coming back to us. Now we're struggling. So it's a great way to sort of keep the wheels turning, keeps us viable, keeps it keeps people employed. It gives us a bit of diversity. Diversity is king. I mean, we talk about variable soils. With variable soils comes variable business, you know, variable profits and losses. So So diversity is just king, and anything that we can possibly do, we're more than happy to give a go and been a huge help to us over the last 10 years, sort of thing. So we, I never thought we'd be running trucks to Broome. I mean, we've been up in Cairns a few times up there. We just got back from Townsville, doing another job up there, hay's moving. So we, you know, got a truck on the way up to New South Wales at the moment. Up topping New South Wales there about to bring a load of hay back again. Just, you know, just keeps on giving sort of thing. It's, yeah, it's good. Jon Paul Driver 5:08 That concept of managing through variability is the secret to success, right? Matt Eckert 5:13 Variability. Definitely. People say to me like, Oh, you're so lucky. You got, you get such good opportunities, you know, he's so lucky to have that. And I always come back with a thing Jon, like old man, always said, ability must meet the opportunities. When you know a business with ability is a business that will make money, ability will bring opportunity. You don't have to go and look for it. Sometimes the opportunities, if you have the ability, the opportunities just come. And it's one of those things that me and Tim have prided ourselves in. We've always built a lot of ability into our business, ability to do whatever it might be, whether it's from trucking to building roads to fabrication the workshop, fixing things, whatever it may be, building ability into your business is just key. Ability brings ability brings opportunities. And opportunities, obviously, are what grow businesses. You gotta have opportunities, and you gotta take those opportunities when they come. And we've been very fortunate to to have a lot of them come our way. It's, it's been really good. Jon Paul Driver 6:24 So you've been working with Feed Central and LocalAg, for awhile now? Matt Eckert 6:28 They have been fantastic. Now Tim does a very good job up there. And we met Feed Central back in the millennial drought when they were struggling up there. And I remember Tim flew down to see us. And I don't even know how he come across us, so you'd have to ask Tim that. But anyway, he turned up here at our workshop, and I don't know he just things just clicked. And we had, hey, he wanted hay, that the ducks aligned. We had trucks. He needed trucks. And we got business underway. And we've just grown a business relationship over those, whatever it may be, 10 years or so, and gone from a business relationship now to a bit of a personal relationship. They took us along to the eighth year conference, and in Adelaide, spent some time with him and his team, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Learnt and learned a huge amount of stuff, and just brought what we learned, brought it home, started to implement it, implemented change within our business, and got into the hay and fodder game more professionally. I guess you could say, one thing we've focused on big out of that outcome was things like quality, bale weights, storage, the whole chain, I guess you could say, and we've just, we've done a lot of work through them and their systems, that they've built their apps, and that'sabsolutely fantastic. And I just can't recommend anyone enough to get on them. They are good. So and then the new LocalAg system, obviously, feel it's struggling a little bit in our local area, trying to get people onto it. But look, it's when it gets going, it's going to be fantastic. And I just can't wait. I'm just so disappointed. I just got nothing to sell through it. Perfectly honest with you, I he's just got it up and running. We got nothing to put on there. You will. It'll come back again, it'll change.Wheel keeps turning and yeah, they've just been fantastic people to work with. So Stephen Page, he keeps calling in here, saying, g'day on his trips. And we just love them calling in. It's great. They come down the other day, actually, and we took them up for a fly and said, Tim, will get you a look around. So we obviously got an air strip here on the farm, so he flew out of there and took him for a fly around, took the whole team around, and I think they thoroughly enjoyed it. It was good to show them, you know, the lakes and, you know, we're the end of the river, where it opens up into the ocean there, and things like that. And that's just, it's one of those relationships, Jon, that's just, it's a business relationship that's turned into a personal one. And very grateful to know them. Jon Paul Driver 9:00 Now, wonderful. As we've been talking, there's a wheat producing region not far from me, maybe two hours drive, where their annual rainfall is 150 ml, and they're growing. Oh, let's see here. I hold on. Let me do the we can do this. We can do this on the fly. It. I've got professional at the conversion here, 40 bushel to the acre, which is not going to mean a whole lot to you. Ah, that's 20. That would be somewhere close to 2100 kilos to the hectare. Matt Eckert 9:36 2.1 tonne. Yeah, that's a pretty reasonable result. I mean, in our growing season this year, Jon, if I was picking numbers off top of my head, I don't have them all in front of me, but we, I know we had about 100 and 140 ml of rain during the growing season, and our wheat was doing between 1.8 and two tonne. Yeah. To the hectare, yeah. So I guess you could say that's quite comparable. Jon Paul Driver 10:04 I should mention that almost all of this rain, oh, it's completely different production season. It's winter wheat, and we get real winter, yeah. So they're planting in September. The wheat goes dormant in November through maybe March, and then comes out of dormancy and matures and maybe July. So we have wheat in the ground almost all year round. Yes, it's a very different production system. Matt Eckert 10:35 Very different. We're sort of sowing in, I guess you can say May, May we'll be sowing in June this year, but we'll be reaping why? Sort of November? November, December. Yeah. Jon Paul Driver 10:45 I was wondering if you're using any deep furrow planting, seeding. No, have you seen that? Matt Eckert 10:53 Yeah, we just can't get into our country deep enough. Jon, okay, too many rocks, limestone, yeah, just can't rip into it. That's the problem. Jon Paul Driver 11:02 It's fairly sandy where they're doing that and they're putting that seed 8-10, inches down. Yes, it's amazing. Matt Eckert 11:11 It's yeah, it's unreal. I not gonna reap in 10 inches down from here. That's sure. You're gonna have huge amount of rock picking today, that's for sure. Jon Paul Driver 11:20 Yeah, I just didn't know. I'm just trying to think, what could I say...what words could I say to make your life better right now? And I mean, there are folks that we call it dusting in where we seed into a layer of fluff and dust and there's no moisture for two or three or four weeks, and the seed just lays there until it's until the weather, until the weather is right. Matt Eckert 11:45 Yep, yeah. And that's essentially dry seeding over here is the same. It's just and then when it does rain Jon you've got your whole farm seeded on that one day, which is, is remarkable, but yeah, I mean, there's just, like, I say normally, 100% confidence in dry seeding, especially where you've soil ameliorated anywhere you've clay spread all our heavier loams, country, 100% dry seeding is the answer get to our non wetting sands. Just got to be careful. You don't want to be seeding and then having that non wetting sand drifting in onto your furrow, that that can then your seed can be sitting under 40, ml of non wetting sand. That's not necessarily the perfect outcome. So great. That's why we've just waited a little bit on on a bit of our program. So just hedging our bets, a little bit probably more after a reliable outcome than if you know what I mean, just oh yeah, just trying to eliminate a little bit of risk. Yep, absolutely. Jon Paul Driver 12:46 Well, do you have any advice you want to share with other farmers who may be struggling? Matt Eckert 12:52 No, I mean, tough times. You know, tough times are good in a way, like tough times when you implement change. You know when, when things are going your way? And you know everything the ducks are all lining up, and like the last few years, you just couldn't go wrong. Jon, you know it's raining and things are going your way, don't necessarily stop to think. You don't implement change because you're so invested in the time, I guess you're busy. These times come along, it's what makes us change. It's what makes us implement new processes. Look at things like efficiencies and things like that, alternative ways to make money, if there's any other opportunities out there, yeah, we've just been thinking outside the box Jon for the last, you know, 18 months, really. And, you know, boys around here got into things like feedlot and bit of contracting here and there. I mean, we've been away in our trucks a fair bit, you know, doing a lot of stuff in the workshop, just looking at different avenues and things like that that you just don't necessarily look at why things are all going well, like, yeah, there's a lot of positives to come out of it, that's for sure. If you can just push through the tough times, and don't get me wrong, they are certainly challenging, a challenge to the best of us, that's for sure. And I often feel sorry for like, my mum's still very actively involved in it. And she's, she just cops it like she's just about some all for everyone. And, you know, I bounce problems off her Tim bounces problems off her dad bounces his problems. And she just keeps absorbing those. And she's pretty remarkable at doing it, to be honest with you, and you know, you just got to keep those type of people very close in times like this. And I'm just grateful to be involved in a family business where we have those, where we have those resources. And I'm very close with my brother, and most people say brothers don't work together, but I'd be lost without my brother Jon, and we do everything together. And yeah, like I say, I just cherish every day that I've got him. So we just very lucky. It's been the situation we're in. You know, my my papa's no longer with us. So I also think sometimes, you know, like, what would he be saying to me? And I don't know you'd be it was always used to say, oh, you know, you boys will see it one day. Oh, you know. I reckon we've had tough times properly, you know. No, you haven't seen tough times. You'll see 'em. And maybe we've just seen 'em, Jon, and it's made us grow and grow as people. Lot of respect for the people that have done, my dad, my pauper, all the people that have owned our country before, before we got here, like you just gonna take your hat off till they push through all these tough times, you know, picking rocks and clearing country, and have a bloody hard times, Jon. And we have a couple of years that we can't make a bit of money, and we're sort of, you know, pretty worried about it and stuff, and rightfully so. But, you know, I remember Papa saying, you know, when you come out here clearing land, Jon, like Jesus, mate, he said, I come out here, dove the bloody flight in, and things just broke, things just smashed. It just cost me money. I couldn't make anything. You couldn't drive on the country, put sheep on there, and then the sheep industry just crashed. The wool job crashed, and it just went years without making money. And then he bought his Caterpillar D8 Dozer, and he bought that big blade plough, which I think you've seen when you were here, yeah, and he bought that, and he got into it, and he said it was the best thing he ever did, because he could. It gave him ability, Jon, he could clear the land he could the trees weren't too big. He, all of a sudden, had the upper hand, and he got into it and, and I'm just so grateful he did. Because, you know, in in nothing was 1983 the ban come in, where we had to stop clearing. And he'd sort of nearly finished everything by then. And, you know, and some of them photos I sent you through there, Jon, of those rocks and that, like, Oh yeah, that paddock there of all that limestone we sowed that three days ago, and that is where our open hanging is growing. That will be our oat we're going to run mower conditioners over that country that that's what it was when he started. And you think Jesus like, that would have been tough going, really tough going so buddy, but they did it. And all the people before us, you know, like the Bagshaws and the Hills and all of that, those people that were here back in the sort of, you know, 70s and 80s, yeah, they put a lot of back breaking work into it. I often wonder whether that's why maybe they're not here today. It was that hard at work. They just got to a point where they were out, I don't know, but they certainly put a lot of work in for us to have the country that we have today. And pretty indebted to them, really. Jon Paul Driver 17:52 I understand the concept. This was where I live and grew up here. It's all timber, country, big trees. And in order to make farm ground, they cut the trees down and hauled them to the rivers, and floated the trees down the rivers to the saw mills. And then they took sticks of dynamite and blew the stumps out of the ground. And then they took rippers, and they had to get all of the roots out of the ground. And I'm talking trees that are a metre across, so big timber and lots of roots. So, you know, a lot of this country was cleared maybe 1910 to 1930 I still find I'll still find roots with my rippers. Matt Eckert 18:37 We certainly do too, that's for sure. Jon Paul Driver 18:39 Yep, I have a lot of appreciation for the same, the same efforts, although maybe not quite to the scale that you guys are at. Matt Eckert 18:49 Yeah. And you know, generational farming too, you know, like it's, you know, very lucky to be, I'm very lucky to be a fifth generation farmer. And but it doesn't come without its challenges as well. And I mean, anyone can grow a business, you know, but building legacies. Jon, that's when things get really hard, and working out all that succession, you know, and handing things down, old guys, letting go young guys, implementing new technology, all of that stuff there. Jon, it's a ... Jon Paul Driver 19:20 Universal hardships, that is agriculture the world over? Matt Eckert 19:26 Yes, yeah, yep. So, I mean, I'm very fortunate that my mum and dad are very open about things like succession planning and things like that. Get along very well with my brother. A lot of families don't, and it really is disappointing when you see family farms not work out, because they just such a big part of our rural communities and stuff. And you know, just, just advise anybody that's in a family situation, you know, it's just make sure you communicate with the people around you, talk about what you want to do, where you want to go... Have some strategies, you know, sort of, yeah, have your strategy plans sort of worked out, all that sort of stuff. Jon, you just can't talk enough about it really. It just boils down to communication. That's why everything falls apart. In the end, it's just purely communication, that's all it is. So, yeah, and I mean, what else do you want to know, Jon. Jon Paul Driver 20:21 I think we've covered a good portion of everything. Now this has been absolutely wonderful. Did you have anything else you'd like to add? Matt Eckert 20:28 I was just going to talk about, you know, one of the things I think we've struggled with over the last, you know, moving into this drought, is come out of 2022, massive here, mate, massive year, huge. Just rained. Things were going well, Jon, and you know, we had good crops. We cut and lucerne hay. We had seed everywhere. And I think that's what's made maybe the drought even a little bit harder to digest. There was no no slow, no slow movement into the drought. It was just the rain stopped on the on about the 10th of January, mate, it just didn't rain again. Went from full throttle to bang, and that, that was probably a bit hard to digest. We had probably the most animals we've ever had on the place. And you know, everything was looking good, and everything's rosy, and you're just, you're belting along, and the next thing, bang, this hits you in the face like, you know, and you think, Jesus Christ, what have I done wrong? And you know, we it's such a big year. We had some hugely unfortunate breakdowns, really costly ones, that certainly... Jon Paul Driver 21:39 This is me laughing in sympathy, thinking to my breakdowns. Yes, yeah... Matt Eckert 21:44 We had some, some major ones that sort of hurt the hip pocket and and they come across because you're going hard, you're doing a lot of work, your machines are doing huge amounts of hours, and things just break when you use and then we had a few unfortunate things happen, you know, we tipped the truck over. And then, you know, a few big breakdowns. And then we had another truck hit on the Swanport bridge. One of our B doubles was hit there by another truck. And yeah, we had, we had a fire come through, just trying to start seeding in 2024 and we had two fires come through. And you know, not that they cost us a huge amount, but it's just applied pressure, I guess, when it maybe wasn't needed, and things like that, shit, you know, like, when's it going to end? And very hard. Well, I personally found them hard to digest at the time. And I look back at it now and I go, geez, just nothing, mate. It was all it was a fire. And all it was, you know, tip the truck over. And, you know, we're very fortunate. We never had anyone injured or anything like that. Still got our drivers. And, yeah, it just as a young guy, it was, you know, just testing times, you know, putting that on top of the dry and, you know, trying to mop up from 2022 and start 2024 no and moving into a drought, not knowing where we were sort of really going, not knowing what was around the corner. It was just, you know, it's just different time to what I've been used to. But I've learned so much out of it. My brother Tim's learned so much as well. And, yeah, we'll be better for it think Jon. Jon Paul Driver 23:20 Alright, wonderful to have you back again, Matt and I think we're even going to do a third episode here, so more to come. Matt Eckert 23:29 Thank you very much, Jon, it's an absolute privilege. So no, thank you. Jon Paul Driver 23:33 Wonderful. This podcast is proudly presented by Feed Central and LocalAg, stay tuned for upcoming episodes.