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Hello and welcome back to Illumination, the Disney Lorcanah podcast.

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My name is Max.

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And I'm Sam.

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And we are here to talk to you today about multiplayer formats.

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That's right, Core Constructeds just getting revved up coming up to the Atlanta Challenger

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event at time of recording and the brand new Ursula's Return sets just getting fired up

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for Core Constructeds so people are testing things out.

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So we're going to take a little reprieve to talk over a little bit more casual fare than

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you usually hear on the podcast because we like all things Lorcanah around these parts.

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So we're talking multiplayer formats.

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And Sam and I got to explore the Illumineers quest Deep Trouble.

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So we want to talk about that of course as a co-op format.

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We want to talk about your team versus team style formats.

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And we want to talk about chaos formats, which is a pod of people all vying for victory independently.

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So let's start off with Illumineers quest here right out of the gate since that is something

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Sam you and I have done directly recently.

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So what did you think without any spoilers, what did you think about Illumineers quest

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Deep Trouble?

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I really liked it.

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I kind of expected it to be just an easy addition, just something that beginners could pick up

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and play.

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But I think it was really elegant in the design.

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Ursula's deck plays herself.

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You and your teammates have to battle against her.

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It was actually quite difficult and it took a lot of different thought, different than

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what you would think in your constructed decks.

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You had to play with your teammate.

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So I think things like support was a lot better and different cards that you wouldn't use

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are a lot better in a multiplayer format.

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Yeah, I totally agree.

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The game operates independently, Ursula takes a turn and then the cooperative group who

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are battling Ursula take a turn, which is pretty neat.

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I think that it was more elegant than I thought.

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It definitely plays out in a very specific way.

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Once you played it, you kind of know what's coming.

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However, the game does support multiple different difficulty levels to make it more challenging

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once you feel like you're comfortable taking on one particular difficulty, like, okay,

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we've got this handled pretty good.

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And I like the fact that the product encourages you to, for the harder difficulties, build

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your own decks because it gets so difficult to win once you get to the highest levels

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of difficulty that likely you're not going to be able to win with the included decks

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that come with the product.

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Overall, I think that it was a lot of fun.

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I had a good time.

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I look forward to doing it again.

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I'm excited to try to build a deck to play specifically in the format and see what cards

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are really interesting.

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And that's part of the value of a product like this is I get to go back through the

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binder and reread cards.

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I know what they do approximately, but if they're not good in core constructed, I've

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probably looked them over so many times I'm missing out on words that would make them

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valuable in a cooperative format like this one.

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I really hope that going forward, we get to see more of this.

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I like that it's a Lumineers quest, deep trouble, which means that hopefully every set of four

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different sets or every grouping of four sets that tell an independent story will give us

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a new cooperative product that maybe you can combine together with the past products and

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kind of make a collective deck or even a stronger deck to fight against and keep the co-op game

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going.

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Cause I like the idea of not having to battle head to head all the time instead being able

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to go, Hey, let's work as a team and try to play this game.

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And if you've played cooperative games, you've seen this mechanic before where the game requires

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you to take a moment to operate the game.

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But like Sam said, it is very elegant.

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It's not too cumbersome in terms of time it takes.

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It takes probably about 30 to 45 seconds to operate Ursula's turn.

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If you're doing well, less, if you're not doing as well, perhaps a little bit more, but it's

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not super difficult to grok.

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I think at all indeed a well-designed product doesn't feel like a cash grab, which is always

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my fear with these kinds of products.

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And I hope that they continue to look at the idea of a Lumineers quest and these co-op

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formats moving forward.

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What do you think?

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Yeah, I definitely hope to see it again.

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I really like that.

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It made us play the game differently than we're used to.

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Absolutely.

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So different strategies and different, like you said, different cards that we overlooked

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could be valuable in a multiplayer format, especially one where we're trying to beat

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a deck that's kind of designed to beat us.

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As we talk about these different formats, different cards get emphasized.

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Like in this particular format, I think support really stands out as an ability that's quite

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powerful because you can support your teammates character, which is really, really fun.

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And I won't go too much into spoilers.

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There are other ways to support each other as well.

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I just want everybody to experience it like we did with fresh eyes and ears and hopefully

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take away something more fun from a Lumineers quest.

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You get to open your special card in the end.

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You get to open the special card.

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Next up is the team versus team style format.

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So this would be either a 2v2 or even a 3v3 style tournament.

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This is pretty neat because it more closely represents what core construct it is, but

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you get to sit beside your friends through the entirety of the tournament.

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It's a lot of fun magic.

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I've done this multiple times in magic.

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They call the two person team, two headed giant, and I think that we're seeing that

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start to come to fruition in Lorikana looking over the side event roster for Atlanta, the

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very first challenger event.

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There is a 3v3 team event, which is really neat.

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And one of the things that I think is very cool about Lorikana is, and they're enforcing

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it for this particular 3v3 tournament that they're holding as a side event, is that the

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ink colors cannot be duplicated on your team.

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So you have to be playing what is most likely six, each of the six factions across the team.

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I guess you could play a mono colored deck that doesn't seem like the greatest idea in

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the world, but it's pretty neat because a lot of times you'll want to play two good

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decks that overlap a color.

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I want to play blue steel.

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I want to play emerald steel.

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We both can't do that.

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So I guess I'll play blue red and I'll play green steel.

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And that leaves one player left playing amethyst amber hyper aggro deck or something.

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It's really neat to see how you can break the colors up with that restriction because

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you can't just build everybody gets the best deck.

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Sometimes we'll see, I'm sure we'll see formats supported where there's not that ink identity

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that's required across the team.

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But I do like that deck building restriction and forcing at least one player on the team

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to get a little creative because it's not just rinse, repeat the same decks over and

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over again.

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Did I sit in the right seat?

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Did I not?

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Darn.

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I think that's really cool too, because you kind of need to know your teammates and know

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their strengths and what deck that they would play the best.

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Right.

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And what's also fun is at least in magic, I can't say the same directly for Lorikana,

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but I can't imagine it changing is typically you are allowed to ask your teammate for a

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little bit of help because they are in the game.

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They're a player in the game.

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They're on the same level.

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It's not like if you have a buddy standing who's watching your game, giving you advice,

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that's a little different, right?

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Like you can't do that in core constructed or any of the other supported formats.

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But in this format, you can ask your buddy who's on your team specifically, maybe not

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your buddy who's watching from behind the team, but one of the buddies on your team

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can be consulted for play decisions, thoughts, concerns, things like that.

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So that's also very cool.

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This will be the first time we're seeing this event with Lorikana?

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Held by Ravensburger, yes.

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I've seen other local shops do it in our area, which was pretty neat to say like, oh, that's

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a fun idea.

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But this is the first time that we're seeing it supported at least on an official level,

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which is pretty neat to say.

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I think that's exciting that Ravensburger is exploring space and they've talked about

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how many different ways they've tried to make it so you can ingest Lorikana.

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It doesn't have to just be core constructed, but obviously that being the big flagship

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for any TCG, that main constructed format, they have to put the most focus on that out

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of the gate.

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And remember, we're still talking out of the gate.

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This is under one year this game's been out.

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So as we see more support, we're going to see the evolution and support of more variance

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of how to play this game, which makes every card a little bit more exciting.

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And we're not just stuck seeing the same homogenized group of probably about, I don't know, three

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quarters of a set worth of size that get played.

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So it's pretty exciting to see how things evolve.

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In addition to team versus team, there's also, I think what is the most instantly thought

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of when we talk about a multiplayer format and that is the notion of a chaos game.

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So this is some number of players above two, three, four, five.

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Oh, I get scared when we're talking about numbers higher than that.

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How long is that game going to take?

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All get together at one pod or one table or whatever.

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And they go ahead and play a game where they are each an individual player in the game

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trying to win on their own amongst the other players who are trying to do the very same

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thing.

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This was supported at a bunch of the conventions.

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It was early on referred to as the willpower league.

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We both got to play in that at PAX, which was neat.

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I liked that they in this format, they decided to emphasize not just doing well and winning

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your pod, but also trying to accomplish a wacky goal.

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So there was an award for having a character who ended the whole willpower event of like

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three hour event time, whoever had the character that was noted with the highest strength.

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Yeah.

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The most princesses in play.

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I know they did the most of a certain character.

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So it was really neat to see them do all of these things.

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Most cards in the ink well, things like that, where it was like this fun way to support

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the game and also put an emphasis on fun.

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The most lore in one turn, I think was one of them.

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Yeah.

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It was a really neat concept that through the idea of rewarding fun patterns of play

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and off the wall strategies, you get rewarded for that just as much as you get rewarded

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for winning the event.

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I think was really a smart notion on their part.

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I think that part's really fun.

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Seeing it now, we're starting to see it referred to under the name of multiplayer challenge

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event.

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So usually this is going to be more of a focus table of four players.

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It seems like their emphasis on the side of an end of things is to prize out.

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So it's probably going to be focused on just winner of the pod.

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Most likely.

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It's not always casual as, hey, the prize for this is prize wall tickets.

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So we're going to put dump in X prize wall tickets, divide them up how you so choose.

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That is typically how magic handles commander games at events is they go, hey, your entry

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buys you X number of tickets combined in a pod.

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That's this.

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You guys can go winner take all top two, take something.

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You go, everybody gets the, what they paid in and the games just for fun.

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It doesn't matter, but that's, you know, you're taking your actual currency and converting

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it essentially into prize wall tickets, which is beneficial for in this case Ravensburger.

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So I'm not a hundred percent sure how they're going to support the multiplayer challenge

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events, but it gives you a chance to actually engage with a group of people.

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And each of them are trying to do that coveted race to the 20 total lore they need.

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It's not like a team format where it's a combined lore total instead of like, Oh, our team has

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to reach 60.

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So it doesn't matter if on our team of three, Sam covered 50 of the lore and we just protected

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her resources.

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It didn't matter because it's a collective lore total in these multiplayer one of the

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one formats.

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And she just, you on your own out there trying to get to 20 lore.

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I do think if you're going to this challenger event with the intent of participating in

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one of these multiplayer multiplayer challenge, multiplayer challenge event, you probably

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want to bring a second deck because I'm sure you can construct it a lot better for multiplayer.

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There's so many cards that are each opponent and it could be better than if you're just

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playing one versus one.

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Oh, you're saying not to necessarily just take your core constructed, walk over to the

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multiplayer side of it.

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In my opinion.

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Oh no, absolutely not.

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I think you would get stomped because there are people who are very much focused on building

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good multiplayer decks and that deck looks, things that are normally throw away and core

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constructed get way better in this particular format.

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When we played it at pack, we kind of just had our constructed decks that we had at the

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time.

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Yes.

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We didn't realize the willpower league was multiplayer.

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Yeah, no, we had no idea.

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It's really neat to see.

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So we talked about earlier with the Illumineers quest and ability like support getting more

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emphasis, where in this chaos style format, the support kind of loses its luster, but

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the cards that come up with each opponent all of a sudden gain a lot of cred where in

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the Ursula's quest, the each opponent is exactly the same as it would be in one V one where

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we have one opponent, it's Ursula.

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So those don't really jump up.

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But now all of a sudden hypnotize making your opponents each discard one and you get to

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draw three is a lot different of a card for three ink than your opponent discards one

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and you draw one.

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So you start to combine that with other pieces we've seen in the past, like Prince John,

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greediest of all.

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Now all of a sudden you're drawing six cards for three ink.

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That's a huge advantage, especially if you can maybe play like a green blue discard deck

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and you're like leveraging by like offloading a bunch of the extra resources into your ink.

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Well, really good stuff you can be doing that normally would not pan out.

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People like to go to multiplayer for are the longer game strategies, things that there's

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just not enough time in one V one because you are the center.

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If I am playing you, you are my central focus.

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I'm trying to get to 20 before you are.

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I'm trying to stop you from getting to 20 at all costs in multiplayer.

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I'm going to focus on you when you become a problem.

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And then I'm going to shift my focus to the next player when they become a problem or

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I'm going to double down and focus on trying to shake all three of my opponents while I

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get to the 20 lure first.

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So this means that longer, bigger strategy and get paid off.

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This is where I think you're what we call magic tribal decks, your theme decks, your

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princess decks look a lot better.

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Like your new legendary Cinderella looks great in a multiplayer game, right?

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Because now you're buffing all your princesses.

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And guess what?

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I have like five princesses out.

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So now all of a sudden I can quest for a whole lot.

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Normally it's like the time it's going to take for you to get princesses in play.

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And a lot of them are underpowered is going to be more trouble than it ends up being worth.

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But in multiplayer, because now everything I have to do is cut into each of my opponents'

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princesses.

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Now probably about 33% of my focus.

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Now I can only give them the benefit of more time where it's like, okay, cool.

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They played a couple princesses.

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They're not that good.

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They're not questing for much.

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That's fine.

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Then all of a sudden you jam big Cinderella, sing a song and it's like, uh-oh.

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Now all of a sudden they've just kind of exploded out of nowhere and are doing something totally

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different.

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It also gives you a chance to take that step from starter deck to you built your own deck

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now.

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And I think a lot of players who are new to TCGs tend to build for fun and they want to

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play the cards that they like, especially in a Disney game.

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Everybody wants to play the cards from the movies they like.

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And a lot of times it's disappointing when you go, well, my all Lion King deck got completely

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stomped.

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I mean, it's going to happen because you're restricting yourself beyond the restriction

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of the game.

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You're putting an extra restriction on yourself.

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But in multiplayer, you perhaps can play your Lion King theme deck because you just have

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more time and you get the ability to play more of the characters you enjoy.

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So that makes it more exciting and a good step up from the starter decks where we see

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something like right now, the current starter deck is a Madrigal theme deck.

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Right.

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You might have more time to get these synergies for the cards that are supposed to work together.

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Absolutely.

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The slower, more grindy, more grandiose things tend to happen in multiplayer formats.

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So it's a good place for a casual setting for a newer player to start where things aren't

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as competitive.

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They're not as nervous.

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It's not like a tournament setting per se.

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Also you get to make new friends when you're sitting down with three people you've never

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played with before.

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That's really neat.

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It's a lot of fun.

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You have a more social experience in multiplayer than you do in a constructed format where

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some people play very reserved and quiet because they're focused on what they're doing.

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Some people are quiet and reserved because they want to maybe intimidate their opponent

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a little bit.

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Sometimes you have to do things like call a judge over because you feel like your opponent

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made a misplay or your opponent did something and tries to do the old takesies, backsies

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and you're not allowed to do that in core constructed.

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So they're breaking a rule.

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So you have to be kind of the bad guy and that can be a negative social experience.

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Also a lot of people find the tournament concept a bit overwhelming where now with these side

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events and these casual events being supported with prizes, you get something for doing it

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so you don't feel like you're just going and paying for a badge and just kind of finding

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games as they appear.

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You're actually being rewarded for playing the game with like-minded people and you get

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to have fun, have laughs, not worry about being the bad guy.

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Takesies, backsies are a little less frowned on.

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There tends to be levels of rules enforcement that happen at different size categories and

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different scale of events.

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You get to be able to go, Oh, you know what?

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I don't want to necessarily do that because I didn't realize I could do that.

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Most of the time in a casual setting, people go, Oh no, go ahead.

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Do your cool thing is a lot of really fun way to enjoy the game.

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And we've talked about it through each of these little categories, but let's you dust

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off those binder cards that you forgot were kind of languishing in the bottom of your

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bag way back there.

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And the recesses of the pages where it's not, Oh wait, this is actually really good.

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This lets me do that for each player, each opponent.

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What?

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I'll have somebody bring out a card every once in a while.

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I'll be like, what does that card do?

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Because it's just not usually played in the constructed decks that we are used to.

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Absolutely.

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In the metagame, you have to memorize so many cards, usually like between half and like

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three quarters of a set worth of cards need to be in your brain.

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And there's just too many cards now, a four full sets over 800 cards.

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We have to try to keep in our brain.

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No one can reasonably do that.

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A few gifted people certainly can, but the average player is not going to be able to

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part of the way you can catch people off guard is playing something that people aren't seeing

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very often.

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Cause you're not familiar with how the card works as consistently and mechanically as

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you are cards that are played constantly.

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So it's pretty exciting.

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I think multiplayer is a ton of fun.

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Really happy to report that a luminaire's quest was indeed a good time.

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We are not sponsored by Ravensburger though.

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We'll take a sponsorship for real.

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We enjoyed it.

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It was a good time.

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I hope that everybody gets a chance to experience it and have fun fighting against Ursula.

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I hope you take some time to look into some of these cool team side events.

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There's some neat ways to utilize abilities, cards, concepts, thoughts that you've never

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got to.

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I'm definitely interested in trying like the 3v3.

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There's different levels from that core constructed all the way back, but no matter what the format,

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no matter what you're supposed to do, there's one thing that probably ties them all together.

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You need to keep questioning.