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Hello and welcome back to Illumination, the Disney Lorcan podcast.

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My name is Max.

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And I'm Sam.

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And we are here to talk about building, deck building, building a deck in Lorcan.

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Sam, let me ask you, what do you think the most important thing for deck building is

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when you're going to start?

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Like you want to build a deck, I'm ready to build a deck.

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What is the number one mission statement?

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To put together 60 cards.

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That's a good place to start.

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That is, that would make it a legal constructed deck in Disney's Lorcan.

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Why do you build a deck?

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To win games.

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Is that your sole purpose behind building a deck?

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To win games, to like your deck, something that you're comfortable with.

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So I'd say it's fair to boil it down to one major question or one major purpose.

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And that is finding out or fulfilling a goal.

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Yes.

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Whatever it may be.

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I like the way you phrased it because there are kind of two different major goals.

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One is to build a deck that performs well on the competitive scene, a good deck that

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would find its way into the meta game.

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And we've talked about meta games before.

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If you want to give a listen to that episode, we'd appreciate the support.

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If you already have, thank you.

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Also the other goal would then be to play a more casual deck or a deck to have fun with.

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This might be a multiplayer deck.

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This might be just a cool kitchen table deck is what we used to call them back in the day

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with Magic.

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99 puppies.

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101 card deck, 99 puppies, a pongo and a perdita.

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Sure.

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Like that is absolutely a fun, cool, interesting idea.

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Like I want to run so many of each art.

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I just want to run one art, whatever makes you happy.

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The goal is playing the game to be happy.

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And that is a totally valid goal to have.

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So what the goal of the deck is, is super duper important.

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It's not always just to win the game, even though that seems to be Sam's major angle.

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It is.

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So I want to talk about the competitive part of it first.

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And we've kind of talked about this a lot.

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And there is again, a whole meta episode.

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So I don't want to be a dead horse or be too redundant.

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And then we'll jump into brewing a deck kind of from scratch and get into that.

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So obviously when it comes to a meta deck, a deck that Sam wants to play, a deck that

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is trying to win, one of the best ways to figure out what to play or to build a deck

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is to look at what is winning.

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Look at tournament results, hop on PixelBorn, look at PixelBorn results.

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That can really help you.

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Paper tournaments really help as well.

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Figure out what is performing well.

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Talk to people.

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What are you playing right now?

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What are you liking?

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What's doing well?

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Then what you want to do is you want to take that particular core concept, that deck list,

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that idea, and you want to look at as many different lists as you can.

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What are people doing with this deck?

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I think a good example of that right now is in the Amber Steel Song decks.

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There's a lot of flexibility.

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There are some people playing Pride Land, some people playing Flutes, some people are

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playing Lantern, some people playing None of the Above.

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They're just playing songs and characters to sing them, all of which are valid.

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So you're looking at different lists all in that same theme and trying to figure out what

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version of that suits you the best.

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So you want to try to look for what I consider to be the deck core or the framework that

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keeps the deck together.

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When you look at these lists, let's pretend it's four different versions like I just described

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for Amber Steel Song.

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What are the cards that are always in that deck, especially the cards that are always

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four of in that deck?

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Most likely you are not going to be able to move those cards out or if you do, you're

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likely going to be making a sub par choice.

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A lot of the purple decks, they all have the bounce package.

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They pretty much all play the bounce package, right?

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You're talking Madam Mim Snake, Madam Mim Fox, Merlin Goat, Merlin Rabbit, Merlin Crab.

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This is a pretty standard stock set of cards, a great core.

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And those cards aren't going to really change.

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Likely if they do, you're probably playing something that's not quite as strong.

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And the reason I say that is because remember, when you're looking at results like this and

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you're looking at decks and you're looking at concepts of a deck, these are things that

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have been tested by hundreds of people and have logged thousands of hours of playtime.

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The idea that you're going to be able to go, okay, you know what?

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I'm going to dedicate three or four hours for the next few nights into doing this and

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come up with results that are as data driven and as proven as what these hundreds of people

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logging all this time have done.

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That's a bit preposterous.

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You may come up with something that works really well within the context of an existing

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deck, but just to throw a deck together with no outside context from a competitive perspective

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isn't going to happen too well.

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So what you'll do is take that framework and go, okay, I have these, let's pretend out

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of a 60 card deck, there are 40 cards that are pretty much spoken for.

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They're the same in every list.

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Maybe it's 50 cards that are the same in every list.

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A lot of the Steel Song decks get as close as like 54 cards that are the same a lot of

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the time.

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So you figured out what that is.

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Now what you're going to do is take those flex slots and you're going to change those

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particular cards around to try to shore up a match that you feel like the deck struggles

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against or to suit the style of play that you prefer.

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Do you like your Mr. Smeez?

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Cause the synergy with Rapunzel gifted with healing is really strong or would you prefer

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playing something a little bit more low to the ground?

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Like I want to play the one drop Simba because he's a king and he can go into the pride lands

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and he can immediately give me the benefit of being at the pride lands.

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There's a lot of questions you can ask and a lot of work you can do even though it seems

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like it's ridiculous.

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Like you're only, well, it's the same 50 cards, but it's really on a lot of cases, the last

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10 cards, the last five cards being different, that was a hallmark.

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If you listen to a lot of interviews with people who win tournaments, they go, yeah,

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me deciding to play this really was the game changer.

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Like no one saw this coming or this match that's normally unfavorable.

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This really gave me an edge and made it a much closer matchup.

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So I got to eke out more wins than I normally would because I made these choices.

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So that's really what you're looking at when you're talking about a meta deck evaluation

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is taking the core and then shaving out what can be moved around and molding the last few

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slots, those flex slots to what you prefer, what your preference really is.

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Sam you've been doing that with red purple coming into set championships.

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What were the changes that you walked yourself through?

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What made you go in the direction you went?

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I think just by playing over and over and over again, I knew for example, Minnie Mouse

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Surfer, she came out for a while.

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She went back in, I think making the adjustments based on how many I think I need, like how

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important was she in this matchup or that matchup was really important.

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Another one that I believe the list I mirrored my deck off of only played one Pinocchio and

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I was like, that is nonsense.

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Pinocchio is way too strong.

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So I ended up on two Pinocchio.

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Just playing with your deck, seeing what's comfortable, making a mental note about what

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did I need at that moment and what could have helped, I think definitely made a difference.

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You even went as far as to make one of the more hot takes at that time with the red purple

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decks and you decided to shave a be prepared.

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Yes, I did.

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I only went in with three.

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I tried putting in a scar.

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I didn't think that worked very well for me.

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So it ended up coming out in favor of, I believe another Maleficent three drop who she's lowered

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in some of the lists that I was looking at.

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She draws you a card.

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She sings friends on the other side.

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She's just really important.

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She's good against the aggro decks because you can get rid of most of their merfolks

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or Flynn rioters with her if needed.

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So I felt she was very strong.

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And when we went into set championships, there was a lot of green steel discard decks that

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I think she definitely helped me with.

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Yeah.

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Maleficent is really good at coming down, adding a card to your hand and then giving you more

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options when it comes to the times you have to discard.

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We're just being another card in general tends to be very good against the discard decks.

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It can't be taken by two drop Ursula and that lowering of the deck, right?

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We're cutting down on six drops, cutting down on seven drops, completely cutting Maleficent

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dragon in order to interact with the early game was a concession.

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And I think in two parts, one to the Emerald steel discard decks and the other is to getting

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underneath of the popsicle decks and being able to be a little bit faster and have characters

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on board and go, okay, I have a Queens castle, do something about all of this.

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And I think that it gave you more ins into the decks that were popular in the metagame

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at the time.

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So that's the process that Sam walked through when it came to tweaking an already very established

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archetype.

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And I mean, this is cutting cards like be prepared as no joke, cutting down on your

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Medusa's in your Tremains is a hard choice to make cutting out Maleficent dragon, which

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if you go back to the beginning of the Inklans meta, people were jamming for of them going,

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this is better than it's ever been.

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And now that changed.

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And I think the Tremain Medusa deciding how many, what your split is, that was a really

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difficult decision as well.

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And everybody kind of was different.

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I decided for a two, two split.

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Some people had three of one, two of the other, some had one of one of them and none of the

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other.

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So that's definitely one of those flex spots that can vary from deck to deck.

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Absolutely.

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If you want to be successful, I'm not saying it's the only approach.

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Obviously innovation comes at various times.

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The green steel deck came at the end of the metagame.

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Somebody creates the decks.

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That's right.

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Somebody breaks through with ideas and concepts and a lot of people try and don't.

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And I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from trying, but just know that when you are testing

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this way, it's going to result in a lot of losses.

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I'll get more into that as we get through the next section, which is brewing a deck

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just in general.

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And we talked about the core concept or the goal of the deck.

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And that kind of comes in two modes, the casual deck versus the competitive deck.

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Which modality do you want the deck to exist in?

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Am I here to have fun and just like do cool stuff?

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And I think this deck is just so cool because I'm so excited about a particular card or

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a particular cluster of cards and I really want the deck's concept to just be it is this,

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right?

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We see this a lot with tribal decks is what we refer to them in magic.

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Tribe being the type of card they are.

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And we do see this transfer to Lor'Khan'a quite a bit.

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Brooms, princesses.

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Heroes.

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Heroes now becoming an archetype.

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One I'm very excited for and I tried early on is Musketeers.

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Villains is what I believe.

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Villains.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And the ladies is waiting in the shadows to actually be a real, at least a playable card.

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And even as far as I think now that more sets are coming out, people are going to want to

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do certain movies like me with my Lion King.

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Like maybe I want to make a Lion King deck.

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Absolutely.

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And a lot of people have tried to propose the format of no color restriction, but only

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cards that are related to that film, which is a cool concept.

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There's a lot of neat ways.

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What's the goal?

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Maybe it's you and seven other friends get together every week in Jamlor Khan and you

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go, you know what?

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We're making our own format.

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And your goal then becomes to make a deck that is either winning or fun to play within

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that new format.

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That's your goal.

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That's step one.

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What is your goal?

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That is kind of one A that has to almost transcend the what is the deck?

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This is for fun and I'm okay with losses because I just want to have a good time at the table.

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Or is this competitive and its goal is winning and I don't care what movies, what archetypes,

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I want the best cards in this to accomplish this very competitive and goal that will result

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in wins.

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Then either one of those totally valid ways to walk this game.

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Then after that, you need to test it.

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Okay, I'm building my musketeers deck.

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I tried it before.

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There was not enough musketeer support.

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However, in Ursula's return, we're going to see a bunch more musketeers and I'm really

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excited to go, okay, that's the concept.

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I'm jamming all the musketeers into a deck and then from there I need to test it and

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go, okay, this musketeer stinks or this musketeer is less good.

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I need to just cut down to like two copies of that one or this is the best musketeer

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in the deck.

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I need four of these.

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I really need this card to function and it's maybe it's an item and I need a way to find

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an item now.

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How do I get an item in here?

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How do I get it back when it's banished because it's super important.

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I need that tab or I lose.

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Those are things that I will start to test and I will begin to make notes.

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I'm going to find cards that help me, bodyguards to go with my tabernacle that aren't necessarily

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musketeers would help me.

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I need those cards and I need to test them and go, okay, well, I need some of these and

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I need some of these and you have to keep refining and testing.

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You have to test in labs on Pixelborn.

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If you're going to go out and you're going to get the cards, maybe it's easier to start

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in Pixelborn for free when you have access to all the cards and go, well, let me come

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up with the list and then decide to get the cards instead of getting every musketeer and

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then going, oh, well, I only need like 50% of these.

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Unless your goal is also maybe like collecting alongside of that, whatever kind of answers

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and meets the goal and then you can try again.

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Once you get it kind of at that level of like, all right, this is a functional 60 cards.

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I'm going to take it to my locals, but hopefully a more casual local to test it out first and

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then from there you're going to continue to refine and make changes until you're happy

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with the 60 and it'll always change, especially if we're talking about more competitive decks

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because the meta will change frequently.

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And new cards will come out frequently.

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New cards will come out frequently.

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I think that that kind of leads us into some things to keep in mind as you're going through

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either of these processes is no, the results are largely going to be else.

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You're not going to get a ton of W's out of the gate.

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The key is taking those defeats and figuring out why they happened.

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What was the pivotal moment of the game?

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What inflection points caused you to make decisions or what inflection points occurred

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and you were unable to make a decision that was correct.

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You knew what to do, but the deck wasn't capable of providing you with that option.

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There are a lot of things that you're going to need to do.

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Take notes, take a lot of notes.

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What's beating you?

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Is it one ink identity?

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Is it just, oh, these steel decks just wreck me because they just keep wiping my board.

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You got to figure out how to not have your board wiped.

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Your deck can be beating yourself.

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Too many uninkable.

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Right.

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Exactly.

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Functionality out of the gate is a huge thing and what we call gold fishing in magic, which

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is where you play with no opponent.

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You just are essentially putting down cards to see if it functions as a cohesive deck

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is a little bit trickier in Lurkana because this is such a heavily interactive game.

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You can't just assume that no one's going to challenge your questor.

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So all you need to do is like Sam said, you can draw test hands to make sure how often

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make a little tally mark.

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How often when I draw, how many uninkables?

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Three, four, one, one, zero, five, seven.

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Those are important notes to make.

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How many times are you ending up with too many uninkables?

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How often are you losing to a specific deck and you go, okay, I need to be able to beat

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this because I know if I take it to my locals, somebody's going to be playing it because

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it's just a good deck to be playing right now.

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So I need to be able to answer it.

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What can you answer it just simply in the way you're playing the deck or do you need

294
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to make changes within the deck?

295
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,480
Those are all really important things to make note of.

296
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Like, okay, listen, I can't run this card into this card into this card because it sets

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me up too badly for a grab your sword.

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So I need to play this.

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Then I need to play this different card now and then I can follow up because then grab

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your sword does not impact me nearly as much as it did.

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Or you may go, no, no, no, I'm just stone cold to this card.

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So I need to figure out how to answer that immediately.

303
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,840
We saw that again with pride lance being an answer to grab your swords by giving everything

304
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an increase in their willpower.

305
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:36,240
So there are definitely things you can do.

306
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It's a weird goal because it's kind of a goal you never accomplish.

307
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You always can make a deck better.

308
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That's kind of the joy of having a pet deck.

309
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Like if your goal is just to have a fun deck and we're seeing a lot of love for the brooms

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now, so we're going to see a lot more broom decks, especially at your more casual local

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events.

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You're going to see a lot of people who are just like, I just think this is so neat that

313
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,680
this is a deck and I'm just jamming brooms and having a blast.

314
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:00,680
That's okay.

315
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,200
And they're always going to be getting new brooms.

316
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,200
Sam's always going to be getting more Lion King cards.

317
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There's a pirate deck.

318
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,960
We forgot about that one, which was actually kind of popular at the beginning of into the

319
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:10,960
Inclands.

320
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,960
Absolutely was the red steel pirate deck.

321
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,420
And it's getting a little bit of love here towards the end of the format as well as we

322
00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:19,120
transition over and are getting more pirates.

323
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There's always going to be another pirate card to test.

324
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,840
So it's cool to have these pet decks that let you just monkey around and make little

325
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,720
changes and then goodness, like there might be a time where it's like, uh, this is actually

326
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,160
like quite a good deck right now.

327
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,020
Maybe it's hits into the potential to go, I'm going to take this, I'm going to turn

328
00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:39,240
it into a competitive deck from my casual build by changing 12 cards.

329
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,380
Now all of a sudden is competitive version of my Lion King matters deck.

330
00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:46,120
So it's a ton of fun.

331
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,760
I guess my big goal out of this is the same thing.

332
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,120
We've been made our kind of unofficial mission statement of try everything and don't be deterred

333
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,840
by the negative results.

334
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:55,840
Remember your goal.

335
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,120
My goal is just to have fun and I'm obviously you're going to have more fun if you win some

336
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,120
game.

337
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,800
So you'll keep making changes and tweaks.

338
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,840
It's the project never ends.

339
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,400
It's always ongoing.

340
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,200
You could always make it a little better.

341
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,920
You could always make it a little bit different.

342
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,880
It's the same reason people have a classic car and they constantly tweak it and change

343
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,600
it and fiddle with things and upgrade pieces and parts and they try to find the vintage

344
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,680
version of something.

345
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:19,680
It's fun.

346
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,720
That's part of the fun is I want to test cards or tonight I made like four changes to my

347
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,720
deck.

348
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,080
I can't wait to test them tonight when I go play.

349
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,520
Those are the fun parts of it.

350
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:29,980
So don't lose sight of that.

351
00:17:29,980 --> 00:17:35,160
If it's meta testing, obviously the fun is in the exploration of what the meta is right

352
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,280
now and how good certain decks are.

353
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,000
Maybe the deck you were testing for the meta is not the result, but you find out how good

354
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,640
another deck is because of the solid results it keeps putting up.

355
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,800
So just I would say don't be deterred.

356
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,840
It's always testing.

357
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,120
It should always yield some kind of positive result in one way or another.

358
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,400
If it's not fun, it's not worth doing.

359
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,720
So it needs to be fun and informative.

360
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,240
It needs you know, you're going to have a lot of wrong ideas.

361
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:14,760
It's not going to stop you from keep questioning.