1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,680 Hello and welcome to Illumination, the Disney Lurkana podcast. 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:14,680 My name is Max. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:15,680 I'm Sam. 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,360 And we are here to take you through episode two. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:25,040 And this one's kind of like a foundational episode, less so like specific to any moment 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,040 in time. 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,800 I really want to try to hit some of these like core foundation special episodes that 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,120 we can kind of highlight and be like, these are ones you should go visit in the beginning 9 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,760 when you're new to the podcast or if you're new to Lurkana. 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:41,480 This episode is about card evaluation and we are right on the precipice of Into the 11 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,200 Inklands coming out. 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,480 I thought it'd be a good time to talk about how the heck do you see a card and be able 13 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:51,080 to make a determination if you think it's a good card or not. 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,800 So I wanted to give a quick primer about people on the internet who say cards are good or 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:57,800 not. 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,040 I want to just remind everybody very quickly that this is one to a small group of people 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,240 speculating and testing. 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,960 There's no way they can test out an entire 204 card set immediately upon cards being 19 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:11,960 shown. 20 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:18,120 It's going to take time for cards to be seen as playable or unplayable. 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Will there certainly be a two, two for one? 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,840 I almost guarantee it, but that's the nature of also being able to serve limited in terms 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,640 of booster draft and sealed. 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,840 Just know that no one really has time to go through every single card and really give 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,040 it the time and thought it needs. 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,400 While it is a good idea to listen to people and start to hear, oh, okay, everybody's saying 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,240 this card's pretty good, so I bet you this is a good place to test. 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,080 I think it is very warranted that you proceed with caution. 29 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,740 And if you doubt something, again, like we kept repeating in the first episode, don't 30 00:01:48,740 --> 00:01:50,980 be dismissive of anything. 31 00:01:50,980 --> 00:01:51,980 Test it out. 32 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:55,360 Hey, there might be a very good reason that this exists, right? 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,640 There are cards we play that are less than great because they are very niche to the moment 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,120 in time where the meta is a great example. 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,240 This is Hercules, the six, three resist to Hercules. 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,400 No one was playing this card at the start of the set. 37 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,360 And now because the format has evolved in such a way where we need to be able to hit 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,360 different characters and take them out immediately and hopefully a repeatable basis, we've seen 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,220 a rise in how much Hercules is being played. 40 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:24,640 So I think it is worth mentioning that cards will become playable and unplayable as the 41 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:27,400 meta evolves and simply evaluating a card. 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,640 No one person or small group of people can do that very well. 43 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:35,160 Even entire design teams for games have admitted that they've messed up designs of cards and 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,320 didn't realize how powerful those cards truly were, resulting in things like emergency bans. 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,020 Don't be jaded by the fact that you listen to this person. 46 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:44,920 This includes Sam and I as well. 47 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:50,160 We may be like, this card may just say, pay zero ink, draw seven cards. 48 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:51,360 Maybe it's good. 49 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:52,800 It likely is. 50 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,840 But it may not be the best card ever. 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,400 There may be a certain deck that like somehow doesn't play that card. 52 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:03,280 So just don't put a ton of stock into any one or two people's evaluation of any particular 53 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,760 card or cluster of cards. 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,560 Does that make sense to you? 55 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,560 Does. 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:09,560 Okay. 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:15,080 So I will table that for now and we'll start talking about how you can begin to evaluate 58 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,440 a card, a single Lorikana card. 59 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,000 The first way to do it is in fact by looking at it as a single Lorikana card. 60 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,040 If I were to tell you that they made a one, one for one that quested for one. 61 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,800 Sam, do you think that would be a good card? 62 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,440 It would be outright terrible. 63 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,400 Thank you for following me and helping me. 64 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,620 Now on its own, terrible card. 65 00:03:34,620 --> 00:03:38,960 Now what if I told you there was an awesome card that shifted for zero that could be shifted 66 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,600 onto that one, one for one that only quests for one. 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,760 Now it makes it a heck of a lot different of a scenario, right? 68 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,200 So you have to start with the card on its own. 69 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,260 You compare it across the board, right? 70 00:03:51,260 --> 00:03:56,600 So in my little scenario there, my made up one, one for which can quest for one is not 71 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,120 good on its own because I can look over at Lilo. 72 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,720 I can look over at purple Maleficent and go, well, those are one ones for one that quest 73 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:03,720 for two. 74 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,640 So this card quests for half as much. 75 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,520 And then I can look over and go, well, and there's a whole bunch of two twos for a single 76 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,340 one, multiple in each color almost at this point. 77 00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:15,560 I can also look and go, there are one threes for one. 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,560 What's going on here? 79 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Why is this card so bad on its own? 80 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,720 It doesn't evaluate well. 81 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,720 That's step one. 82 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,080 Does it evaluate well on its own merit? 83 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,360 How does it evaluate a card? 84 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,760 I think that is very good example is a real card. 85 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Not one I've made up is one that I think everybody saw on me. 86 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,000 It was like, this card's crazy. 87 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,280 And that is the Maleficent Dragon card. 88 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:39,160 When we saw that the stats are enormous at quest for two and it's inkable. 89 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:45,060 And when it comes in, it just banishes any character outright, obviously ward not withstanding 90 00:04:45,060 --> 00:04:46,060 that card's absurd. 91 00:04:46,060 --> 00:04:50,440 If it continues to be absurd, it'll probably always be pretty darn absurd. 92 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:51,840 But there's a balance there, right? 93 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:52,840 It costs nine. 94 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:53,840 Yeah. 95 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:54,840 Not every deck wants that card. 96 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:56,960 Not every red deck wants that card. 97 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,600 That is a card though on its own merits reads as a crazy powerful card. 98 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,840 And I think pretty much everybody looked at it and objectively went, this is a powerful 99 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:06,840 Lurkana card. 100 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:07,840 And I think they're right. 101 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:08,840 Very powerful card. 102 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:13,480 So then after we've evaluated on its own, we know it's not maybe not a stone cold bomb, 103 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:19,920 but now we need to try to look at how does it synergize with other cards? 104 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:26,000 I think a really cool example of this card is Ariel, spectacular singer on her own. 105 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,600 Maybe she finds a song for you. 106 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:28,600 It's pretty good. 107 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,480 Some of the songs are pretty good. 108 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,640 Some of them aren't so good, but she replaces herself with another card, which is powerful, 109 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,640 right? 110 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,520 Cause this is a game where you have to play the cards from your hand, not just to the 111 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,560 table, but you also have to ink them and turn them into resources. 112 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,360 So you go through cards in your hand very fast in this game. 113 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:49,040 It's not restricted by different numerical sets like in Yu-Gi-Oh, like, oh, I can play 114 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,720 this cause it's four or less stars or this is a land. 115 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,960 So I just play it as my land for turn in magic in Lurkana. 116 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,880 You're using cards to balance both adding to the board as threats and ways to balance 117 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,800 your opponents and answer your opponent's threats. 118 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,720 You're also using them as resources to continue your game. 119 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,620 So cards that replace themselves are powerful. 120 00:06:07,620 --> 00:06:10,160 So you can look at Ariel on her own and go, she's pretty good. 121 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,960 But then you start to look at the singer five on the three costs. 122 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,320 So ahead of schedule, she starts to do very powerful things. 123 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,760 And then you see the songs that she can sing. 124 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:25,420 And now comparing it alongside of card she synergizes with, you realize Ariel is crazy 125 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:26,420 good. 126 00:06:26,420 --> 00:06:29,800 And she was an example of a card that came out and she was a couple of bucks, two bucks, 127 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:30,800 three bucks when she came out. 128 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,840 And then there was a point where in the first chapter meta, the demand for steel song cards 129 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,120 got so high, she went up to close to $15 because she's that good. 130 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,440 Again, maybe not directly on her own. 131 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,440 She looks a little anemic. 132 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,520 She's not Maleficent. 133 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,960 But when you realize, oh man, look at the synergies here. 134 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Look at the overlap. 135 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,560 Look at the crazy song she can sing on five. 136 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,200 That's when you go, okay, now we're talking about something pretty crazy. 137 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:56,200 Sets in now. 138 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,200 This is going to be the third set. 139 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,760 We're going to have to look at ink land cards, not only on their own, not only with the kind 140 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:07,260 of cards they synergize with, but also do they work with anything from the older sets? 141 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:08,640 That's really important. 142 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,960 Or are they just role players maybe that make an old deck a little bit better? 143 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,840 Is Cinderella ballroom sensation? 144 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,960 She costs one and she is a one, two, and she just has singer three. 145 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,260 Awesome card on her own. 146 00:07:22,260 --> 00:07:25,700 She looks pretty powerful because we saw what something like Ariel did. 147 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:28,360 So we go, yeah, that's a strong ability. 148 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,600 And then on top of that, we look at cards she synergizes with, which she synergizes 149 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,080 with this crazy seven drop called Cinderella stout hearted that can come down and just 150 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,600 end the game and also synergizes with songs, which that particular Cinderella happens to 151 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,500 be able to sing pretty well. 152 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:44,500 Right there. 153 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:45,500 It works really well. 154 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:46,800 Small Cinderella goes in as this role player. 155 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,920 It fits into this old deck with some of these cards that it works pretty well with. 156 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,800 She doesn't work great with a lot of the older songs because there wasn't any great songs 157 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,280 on three to be sung. 158 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,280 But then all of a sudden with the newer cards alongside of her, let the storm rage on and 159 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,820 strength of a raging fire. 160 00:08:01,820 --> 00:08:05,960 She's singing some crazy powerful songs as early as turn two for you. 161 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,200 Turning up on Cinderella, getting to take your next turn and being able to let the storm 162 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,720 rage on there two, two for one that they played feels incredible. 163 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,600 And the reason the meta in terms of a lot of the more controlling style decks have moved 164 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,800 to one, three characters to be able to survive that second turn sequence because it's just 165 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:24,800 that strong. 166 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Cause again, storm rage on replaces itself. 167 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:28,880 So on its own, it's strong. 168 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,000 And then you give a character that can sing it as early as turn two, that is alarmingly 169 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,000 powerful. 170 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,280 So there's a lot of good things that that card can do. 171 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,320 The lubrication to make an old deck a little bit better or the little cog that fits into 172 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,360 the machine a little bit more perfectly. 173 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,960 Is it a card maybe that a whole deck could be made around where maybe there was a deck 174 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,400 looming in the background that was almost there, but not quite good enough. 175 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,520 And then all of a sudden it pops into view. 176 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,280 One of your favorites, the popsicles deck kind of put Tamatoa on the map. 177 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Yeah. 178 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:00,800 Tamatoa was a fan favorite in chapter one meta. 179 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:06,480 I mean, there was a ton of people trying to like play these terrible items with like Ariel, 180 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,040 who's at collectors and Tamatoa is to try to win with. 181 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,320 And now items have just gotten so much better with the new set. 182 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,320 Yes. 183 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,320 Tons and tons better. 184 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,760 The items themselves have gotten better and the enablers have gotten better. 185 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,120 And it looks like things are just going to continue down that path for, especially in 186 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,800 the blue color, seeing some item, great items in purple, some great items in red as well. 187 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,760 But blue, especially is kind of cleaned up on a lot of items popsicle alongside Hiram 188 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,200 Plavisham ended up being a combination of cards that were so synergistic and so powerful 189 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,440 that it created a whole new archetype or a whole new way to play control, which popsicles 190 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,240 was the control deck coming out of the rise of the flood born meta. 191 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,040 It destroyed the old red purple deck. 192 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,800 It seemed unbeatable for the first several weeks of the format seemed unbeatable. 193 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,860 Like there was to the point where I knew other game designers who were just baffled with 194 00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:54,860 how powerful they're like. 195 00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:57,920 I cannot believe they let an engine this powerful into the game. 196 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,480 Here we are many weeks later and popsicles is falling off. 197 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:02,480 You know what I mean? 198 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,560 There's a tier two deck that not even a lot of sees a lot of play in tier two. 199 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:06,560 Don't say that. 200 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,700 I mean, looking at tournament reports and pixel born data, of course, but it's kind 201 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:15,280 of ebbed away because people started to realize, speaking of synergies, how powerful the Merlin 202 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,080 and madam Mim cards ended up being. 203 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,000 And I think that was one that a lot of people earmarked as very powerful out of the gate. 204 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,000 For sure. 205 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,000 And so tons of thought can go into this and there's so many ways to evaluate cards. 206 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,760 I don't want to scare you off of being able to try to use your intuition or your gut. 207 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:35,000 You should take some time and think about how many things need to be gone over and mold 208 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 over. 209 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,920 And then there may be something really cool that comes out that just doesn't fit in the 210 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,240 meta where it's like, this is a cool deck, but it just kind of doesn't work because the 211 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,720 meta answers it so easily. 212 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:50,600 I think a card that was on a lot of people's radar as a really cool card was see Sue and 213 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,320 see Sue suffers from what I'm going to call the madam Mim Fox problem in that I don't 214 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,600 know why she's a dragon and doesn't have evasive, but she doesn't. 215 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:04,560 And therefore madam Mim Fox can eat her alive and madam Mim Fox having that for power being 216 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,900 the kind of the Rafiki replacement for strength instead of the three strength that Rafiki 217 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:13,840 had means that not only do they have a character that lets me pick up another character, then 218 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:19,040 replay it for value, IE like a Maleficent, but it also gives me the reach to take down 219 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,560 these much higher end characters. 220 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:24,280 We see a lot of characters like big Gaston six drop. 221 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,120 That's a four four Fox will take that one down. 222 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,520 We see a lot of two fours that have a cool ability. 223 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,520 Fox will take them down. 224 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,340 And some of those even cost as much as six ink to be able to play. 225 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:36,340 Fox will take those down. 226 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:40,720 It's an impressive card that has held down a lot of other cards simply because it exists 227 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,560 lots of things to think about and lots of ways to evaluate. 228 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,240 Cause I wouldn't have about, I would have said see Sue will definitely be played in 229 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,240 a blue deck. 230 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,720 I was not thinking that Madam and Fox would come out and just completely wreck see Sue. 231 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:52,720 I hadn't thought about that. 232 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,600 And a four cost on inkable that immediately gets answered by a three drop inkable that 233 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,040 gives my opponent value means that I should not be playing see Sue right now, which stinks 234 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,600 because her ability only gives you something if you quest. 235 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,600 So that opens her up to be susceptible to the Fox really sucks, but that's how it goes. 236 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,100 And I know a lot of people thought see Sue was going to be awesome out of the gate. 237 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:15,100 Great card. 238 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:18,360 I'm fortunate that Madam and Fox just completely wrecks it. 239 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,720 But that's a lot of what I think people weren't thinking about because I don't think everybody's 240 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:23,960 just like, no, no, no. 241 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,520 Everybody's been playing these Madam M cards. 242 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:26,520 Everybody. 243 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:27,960 I thought a lot of people were like, no, these are good. 244 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,240 I don't think they put it as far as to this card is going to make a lot of cards unplayable 245 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,320 because of its existence, which it kind of ended up doing leads me into testing with 246 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,360 cards. 247 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,640 And that's two ways to do it. 248 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:41,640 It's pretty easy, right? 249 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Like right now there's an electronic way with pixel born or tabletop simulator or whatever 250 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,080 your preferred method is and or printing out a piece of paper, printing out a picture 251 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,680 of the card, writing it down on a little sticky note and sticking it in your sleeve and playing 252 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:54,940 with what's called a proxy. 253 00:12:54,940 --> 00:12:57,420 One of those two ways to test a card. 254 00:12:57,420 --> 00:13:01,400 So Sam, when you're testing out things, how do you like to test? 255 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:02,600 What do you like to do? 256 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,600 I think for us both, typically we do the print out the proxies or write it down on a piece 257 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,560 of paper and play it in person. 258 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:10,600 That's my preferred way. 259 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,960 Right now that's not saying I won't go on pixel born and make a deck just to see if 260 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,800 it works, but I definitely prefer the paper route. 261 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,640 I like the paper route because we can talk over, like, and stop you, like don't do that 262 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:21,640 because that's not good. 263 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,720 Undo it and do this instead and see if that works so we can talk through ways to change 264 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:26,720 things. 265 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:27,720 You can't really do that on pixel born. 266 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,960 I think for us, it's very much been a step one paper step to pixel born or test it out 267 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,120 in a league or something to see if it holds water. 268 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,400 And I think that that's a nice way to do it because you can fiddle around. 269 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,360 This game doesn't lend itself so much to what's called gold fishing and that's where you play 270 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,160 the deck out against no opponent and just see what it can do completely uninterrupted. 271 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,740 It's possible you could gold fish, like maybe just pretend your opponent's playing a Lilo 272 00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:52,840 every turn or something and just see if you can beat them. 273 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,420 But that's what you want to start to think about is if the deck doesn't function within 274 00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:59,880 itself or the thing you want to test doesn't really work that well on its own, then you 275 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,920 need to step it back a little bit or maybe it isn't such a good change. 276 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,600 But you can always test and test and test and until you get those reps under your belt, 277 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,600 you're not going to know for sure. 278 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,680 And that's why I keep saying, don't dismiss anything. 279 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:11,680 Try it. 280 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:12,680 Try everything. 281 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:14,520 It doesn't matter if it works or doesn't work. 282 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,520 You're investing time. 283 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,060 It's a step you need to take to find the right answer. 284 00:14:18,060 --> 00:14:19,360 That's okay to do it wrong. 285 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,360 No worries there. 286 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,360 Don't be afraid of it. 287 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,000 To wrap up our discussion and point us towards the end of the episode, I want to talk about 288 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,960 some of our triumphs and some of our failures. 289 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,320 Let's start with our failures first. 290 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:37,240 Sam, tell me a little bit about a card or two that ended up not doing anything and that 291 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,480 you had earmarked to be a big player in Lurkana. 292 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,160 Like, no, this card's what's up and people are going to find out. 293 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,160 And then you're like, never mind. 294 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,120 I found out I was wrong about that. 295 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,200 Specifically in chapter one was Belle. 296 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,760 I wanted her to work so bad. 297 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,040 Strange but special. 298 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,040 Yes. 299 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,080 I wanted her to work so bad and just it wasn't there. 300 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,080 It was too slow. 301 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,080 Yeah. 302 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:04,280 From a magic perspective, this is a card that ramped you and was your payoff for ramping. 303 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,280 Right. 304 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,280 I was like, well, this card's insane. 305 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,280 Yeah. 306 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,280 She was too slow. 307 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,200 She got removed by the time it was time to quest for five. 308 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:16,360 That being said, I do think that in The Rise of the Floodborn, I've kind of slipped two 309 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,240 of her into my popsicle stack and I've been really enjoying it so far. 310 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,240 Part of that testing that we were talking about. 311 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,360 I've been testing it for about a week or two now and it's working well and she's a better 312 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,440 payoff because I can kind of hold her until I get to right before she's going to quest 313 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,120 for five and it's a little harder for your opponent to remove her. 314 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:39,280 Another card that I thought would be really busted would be Beast Relentless. 315 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,280 The green beast. 316 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:41,280 Yes. 317 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,080 He seemed like he'd be crazy and we're just not even really seeing any of him. 318 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,080 Nope. 319 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,400 Saw maybe a little bit in initial people testing with like steel decks to deal incremental 320 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,360 little pieces of damage like with Robin Hood and things like that and then use the beast 321 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,240 to kind of quest a bunch of times. 322 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,240 Just hasn't come to fruition yet. 323 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,400 I totally agree with you there. 324 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,880 I think one card that I mentioned earlier that definitely didn't stand out to me was 325 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:05,880 Ariel. 326 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,240 I thought it was a cool card and I was like, there's not enough songs yet for her to be 327 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,800 good and then didn't realize in the first chapter meta that there were plenty. 328 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,680 Like I didn't even mind the probably half a dozen times total I sang Hakuna Matata. 329 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Didn't even mind it. 330 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,480 Loved finding that card and being able to know I was going to ink something without 331 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,480 having to think about it the following turn. 332 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,680 There's a lot of things to like about her and I didn't realize any of them initially. 333 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,360 So she was one that kind of flew under my radar for sure. 334 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,760 And one of the cards that I thought was going to be pretty awesome that ended up not being 335 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,860 very good at all was the steel legendary takeoff from first chapter. 336 00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:39,560 I thought it was going to be a really oppressive card. 337 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:40,560 It had great stats. 338 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,600 It had an ability that gains you lore and that just kind of didn't end up mattering 339 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:45,600 too much. 340 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:51,080 Is there any card that you think that you can now play like you didn't realize how ridiculous 341 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,600 that card was when you saw it? 342 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:54,600 Definitely flourish him. 343 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:55,600 Yeah, without a doubt. 344 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,800 I when we were looking at all the cards, I didn't peg that for being a good card or 345 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,240 I didn't think that I would ever be playing like an item deck because it just wasn't I 346 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,880 didn't think it was my style. 347 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,840 But him with popsicle is just crazy. 348 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:09,840 Yeah. 349 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,680 And then print Nick Wilde to be able to get the popsicle back after you get rid of it 350 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,760 and be able to just go ahead and quest with him and draw more cards. 351 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,040 And the card that you drew off the popsicle never loses you a card. 352 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:25,240 It's another card that I couldn't stand in the first chapter, but now I love having it 353 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,240 is one jump ahead. 354 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,680 Yeah, I love having it in the first few turns. 355 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,320 You love having it when the time is appropriate to have it correct for me. 356 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:42,200 I think a card that kind of came out of nowhere that was a bit of a sleeper or like looked 357 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600 like a bit of a sleeper was Minnie Mouse surfer. 358 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,200 She is an absolute bomb. 359 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,040 Like there are very few decks that are red that are not playing four of her. 360 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:59,440 She's just so hard to answer to the tune of decks playing pretty bad three to evasive 361 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:04,500 characters to be able to make sure that they can't let their opponent just quest with Minnie 362 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:08,960 with impunity like fidget and Peter Pan and things like that to be able to just take her 363 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:09,960 off the board. 364 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,120 If she comes down, it's crazy how impactful she is in the meta. 365 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:17,520 Now I knew she'd be like a pretty good choice, but I think every red deck under the sun would 366 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,120 be playing Minnie Mouse surfer. 367 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:23,800 It's crazy how good she is and how oppressive she can be when you're stuck underneath of 368 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,800 her surfboard. 369 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,520 She's just riding that wave to victory. 370 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:33,800 So that is a lot of information to throw in to one episode, but it is, I think, a good 371 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,800 idea to things to ponder as you're listening to set reviews, things to ponder as you're 372 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,840 getting inundated with spoilers as the new sets getting, getting ready to come out, things 373 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,240 to think about as you approach the new set coming out, what decks do you want to play, 374 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,240 things like that. 375 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,640 So you hopefully save yourself a little bit of money and don't kind of run down the wrong 376 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,880 rabbit hole. 377 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,120 So I think this will be a topic that'll come up a few more times during the life of the 378 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,760 podcast without a doubt, just because it is such a deep topic. 379 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,280 I can talk about everything we talked about in a macro sense and a very micro sense for 380 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,800 an episode without a doubt. 381 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,520 Definitely approach anything that you hear on the internet with caution as always. 382 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,840 Don't be dismissive and try everything is all very important. 383 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,840 Sam, 384 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:17,340 Are you listening?