Hello and welcome to the Illumination Podcast.
My name is Max.
And I'm Sam.
And we are coming at you for the very first episode of this podcast.
So therefore we have to do a bunch of the first episode of podcast business.
First and foremost, thank you so much for listening to this.
Really appreciate you all being here.
We are going to quickly run through who the heck are we.
So if you're listening to us talk about this game, you probably should know who you're
listening to.
My name is Max.
As I said in the intro, I have been playing card games of various sorts for like 20 plus
years now, probably closer to 30 years.
I started off with the Pokemon creating card game as a lot of people my age did.
From there, I moved into Magic the Gathering in and about high school.
I've been playing Magic for a very long time.
I've played Lurkana since right before it came out.
We printed up some starter decks and started jamming.
Since then we've played in leagues and tournaments since the game has come out.
So that's pretty much where my viewpoint is going to come from the grizzled trading card
game veteran.
I've tried a bunch of them.
I didn't like most of them.
I will be kind of the voice of experience, hopefully, maybe just a curmudgeon.
Most likely there is you Sam, who has a bit of a different background.
I'm like the complete opposite.
I'm more of a novice to the trading card game world.
I started Magic 2021.
Yep.
Slowly learned Magic and I got all right at it.
And then when we heard that Lurkana was coming out, I was really excited about it because
I was really starting to enjoy the trading card games.
We kind of don't play much Magic anymore and we play a lot of Lurkana.
Yes.
Magic has definitely taken a backseat to Lurkana.
So we both have a different perspective.
Sam definitely the new kid on the block when it comes to trading card games, but has been
playing quite a lot of Lurkana herself.
So she is no slouch.
I will be taking you on the perspective of the longer, more seasoned player.
So that is kind of what we're trying to do here is attack the game from two different
perspectives.
Sam has not been ruined by playing a lot of different card games for a long time and being
used to, well, this is normally a good strategy.
She doesn't have any of that blindness to the game.
So Sam has a willingness to try different things and the ability to just kind of ignore
what is otherwise possibly conventional wisdom, which sometimes doesn't translate across
different games.
So we're hoping between our two perspectives on various topics that we can hopefully maybe
shed some light on some things you didn't know, or at least make you raise an eyebrow
a little bit, go, oh, I didn't think about it that way.
So that's what we're trying to do here.
Every episode of illumination.
Thanks again for joining us here for our flagship episode.
What about this game?
What have we been doing with this game?
We've been talking about playing this game.
What are we playing?
What do we like?
What don't we like?
I will start, I suppose, unless you want to try to go first on this one.
You're good.
I figured you would say that my thought on the game is I am impressed.
I thought for sure when this game was coming out, it was going to just be a cash grab.
There is going to be very little game behind it and far more collecting behind it.
I did not expect and I'm pleasantly surprised to say that this game is actually really fun
to play.
It has a lot of depth and strategy.
The rules are very easy to understand, but very hard to master, which is the hallmark
of a great game.
I feel like I can teach somebody who's played even board games loosely, a little bit more
than maybe the Monopoly.
I could teach them Lurekana probably inside of 30 minutes and I think they'd be able to
play it reasonably without making a ton of mistakes at that point.
But I think they could spend a lot of time unpacking the depth and strategy that Lurekana
offers, which I think is awesome.
I thought for sure it was just going to be we're going to grab screen caps, throw them
on a card, write the name of the card and move on from there and take your money.
This is so opposite the case.
The artwork is awesome.
The story they're building that ties Lurekana and makes it Lurekana and not just Disney
movies on a card is very thoughtful.
The game designers are experienced and have come up with a game that takes elements of
the best of different games and puts them together while leaving the shabby stuff to
the side, at least so far that's where we're at.
So I'm really impressed and really happy to report that I have been enjoying the game
immensely.
I've been drawn to the more flexible mid-range strategies so far.
I like being able to have the ability to become the beat down very quickly and then shift
gears if I need to and take a more controlling approach to the game.
I find the straight control decks to be a little slow and clunky, especially like first
chapter meta Ruby Amethyst was extraordinarily clunky, where now I think things have smoothed
out with a lot of the Merlin Mim cards introduced in Rise of the Floodborne.
So I like those decks.
I've just been liking Amber Steel style decks a little bit more when they're able to be
played in the meta.
So that's kind of a run down of my perspective on the game.
Sam, what is your take on Lurekana?
Well, I mean, as soon as you told me that there was a Disney trading card game out,
I was in because I was a Disney kid to a lesser extent a Disney adult, but I think it's still
there.
So I was excited about it.
I feel the same as you do.
It's a really fun game.
It's not just a cash grab.
The art is awesome.
I've been big on playing the control styles, especially with Rise of the Floodborne.
I love Popsicles.
I wanted to make, I really wanted to make a red blue deck during the first chapter and
it just didn't come together.
I tried many Sapphire, please.
I'm sorry.
Ruby Sapphire deck.
I tried many variations and it just didn't work.
I loved Bell.
So I really wanted to play Bell.
I got all four of them really wanted to play it.
It just didn't work out.
But with the addition of Rise of the Floodborne, I was able to make a good Ruby Sapphire deck
with the Popsicles deck.
And that's what I've been playing ever since.
Sam likes long games and she's playing Popsicles, which is the longest of the long game, sharing
lots of card advantage and very quickly ramping its ink in order to start playing very, very
strong cards to the board way ahead of schedule and reliably find them with the immense card
draw engine that is Popsicles and Hyrum Flavorship.
It's fun to play.
It is a lot of decisions to make.
It can definitely be rewarding and infuriating when you are playing a control style deck.
So that's kind of what we've been doing.
I've experimented with a ton of decks in Rise of the Floodborne.
Sam was scattered in chapter one meta and not able to find a deck she really could cling
on to until Popsicles came out.
And now I'm kind of the opposite where I think the, I loved the Amber Steel Song deck in
the chapter one meta.
I thought the deck was awesome.
I played the slightly bigger, bulkier version of it and I really did well with it.
It jived with my play style.
And since then, I feel like the Amber Steel Song decks have gotten more flute oriented
are a little bit too nickel and dimey for my take.
I don't love the lines, but I still really appreciate how deep the decision making is
in the decks and it's still an awesome deck, but I've been experimenting with that deck
with the various Mufasa builds.
I've been playing various versions of disc card.
I've been trying to attack the format in different ways.
I've of course been playing some red purple in there, just trying to find something that
I really like, whether it's hyper aggro, whatever I've tried.
We've built probably a dozen different decks between us for this format, Blue Steel, a
bunch of different things to try to find something that we really like or to diversify a little
bit in your case, because you've just been trying to play a deck and I go, man, I don't
like as much Popsicles and playing Popsicles.
I did adjust it slightly from the original bill I had just based on my likes.
Other than that, I'm sticking with Popsicles for now.
Yeah.
I think it's a good way to do it.
There's a lot of approaches to playing in a more tournament style or going to your local
league.
It could be playing a new deck every week because you think that's fun and interesting,
but it can be expensive because you have to have all these different cards to do it.
There's also something to be said about learning a deck that's already quite good and quite
established and making small micro changes and learning the very tiny granular decisions
and play patterns, things you need to do to succeed with each deck.
Because you can win with a deck.
Doesn't mean you did particularly well, right?
Sometimes we all had that game where it's like, whoo, good thing I drew that or I would
have lost or, oh man, I would have won that game if my opponent hadn't drawn that.
I think it gets deeper than that.
It's, oh, if I had sequenced this turn a little bit better, it would have put me in a position
two turns later to do a little bit more because I wouldn't have had that card still lingering
in my hand.
It would have actually been played out on the table and it could have done something
more dramatic for me.
It's recognizing those things and taking those steps you need to make yourself better and
better and better.
That will take you from a very good player to a great player.
No matter where you're coming from, how you're coming from this game, you're here.
You're listening to the podcast, which we appreciate, but it means what I would like
to kind of and what I'll constantly try to champion as my tagline through this, not for
the podcast, but for me personally, is don't dismiss anything.
Don't just dismiss something outright.
There's no reason to.
You could always try to do something, even if it fails, even if you're playing something
totally absurd and ridiculous, even if it's like, no, this in fact was bad and I can confirm
tell you that it is bad.
That's okay.
There's nothing wrong with taking that card that looks awful and playing it.
I saw a deck.
It was like a green blue Alice Pete style deck that's playing vicious betrayal, which
is a card I would have earmarked as absolutely unplayable.
Despite the fact it constantly upset me in the beginning in the starter deck tournaments,
there are decks with that card in it because they realize that there is some value in playing
that card in this deck, right?
With Pete, it pumps him for three strength.
That's valuable.
That is really, really the kind of thing that I just don't want you to dismiss something
because, oh, nobody's playing it.
That doesn't mean anything or everybody's playing it and they're just all copycats and
that decking is stupid and stupid people do it.
That's also not a good way to think about the game.
Don't be dismissive.
Don't be reductive.
Try everything.
Put your hands on it.
Give it a go.
Worst case scenario, you play it, you owe three at your league, you owe four at your
league, feel terrible on pixel born for a 15 or 20 card, 20 game run.
You play with your friend dozens and dozens of games and you realize that the decision
was stupid and you're not doing it.
That's okay.
That's not time wasted.
That's time invested.
That's what it's all about.
You're investing your money in the game.
Obviously, you're doing it because you enjoy it.
You're listening to this.
So, clearly, you enjoy Lurkana maybe a little bit more than the average bear.
You want to invest your time.
That's what it's all about.
That's really a good hallmark, I think, and why I wanted to kind of introduce you not
only to us, but also introduce you to our takes on the game.
So speaking of our takes, Sam, I'm going to let you go first because you haven't talked
in a couple of minutes.
What's the game doing really well?
When you think of Lurkana, you're like, man, this part of Lurkana has really impressed
me.
It doesn't matter what it is.
I like the way that the cards all go together.
I like that each color has its own thing, if that makes sense.
Color identity is what it's referred to in Magic.
Okay.
The color identity, I think, is really strong.
I think that's what is the coolest part about it is just the color identity and the fact
that each color does its own thing.
Another thing, it's separate from that, but I enjoy the mechanics of the game.
I enjoy the mulligan process after playing Magic and just having to completely throw
away your hands if they're not right for you.
I really like that you can just draw your seven, put back what you don't want, and draw
whatever you put back.
So I think the mechanics and the fact that each of the colors do something unique is
what I like the best.
That makes a lot of sense.
And yeah, there's no point in having six different ink types if they're not doing something
individual.
I agree with you 100%.
My favorite part, I think the really smart thing they did is they put everything, they
took everything and went and seemed to challenge every convention.
When it comes to most trading card games, most trading card games are played through
what are known as phases of the game.
So Lore kind of has it to an extent because you have ready, set, draw, then you have the
main phase of your turn.
But you can do anything you want in any order in that phase.
I think that's amazing.
I love that.
I love that I don't have to just play all of my cards, do my challenging, and then maybe
get to play some more cards post-challenging.
I can do a challenge, I can play a card, I can draw cards, I can challenge again, I can
shift and then challenge again.
Anything I want in any order I want outside of ready, set, draw, I am able to do.
And I feel like the game's done a nice job of going, how much chuff can we eliminate
to not make the game unapproachable?
So they've made the game approachable and easy to understand and have focused on the
things that really matter in a trading card game and aren't getting bogged down with phases
and timing and things like that for the sake of making a more complex game.
They seem to be making a more elegant game and they seem to be focusing more on the game
experience and less of making what little micro edges can are really competitive or
really top tier players eke out.
That seems to be the last thing on their mind is how is the game experience fun for the
highly competitive finals of a high level tournament?
How is the game fun for two people who are just cracking open a starter deck for the
first time?
And I really think they've gotten a nice harmony there.
Yeah, I agree with that too.
I really think it makes you have to think a lot too about your ordering, what you're
doing.
You can do anything in any time so you don't have to worry about the order, but you do
in a sense because the way you play your turn can really be completely different depending
on your ordering.
Definitely.
So we've identified what we think they're doing right.
Is there anything that the game has not yet approached that you would like to see them
maybe try to experiment with or maybe see something lightly introduced?
Could be anything from specific movie or Pixar or Star Wars or Kingdom Hearts added to the
game or is it something more game forward facing?
Is there anything you'd like to see?
Oh, I'd really like to see this.
There's nothing specific like mechanic wise or anything like that that stood out, but
I definitely can't wait to see more movies get introduced.
I would be for Pixar movies.
I'm not for more going into Marvel and Star Wars, things like that.
For me, it's just, I can't wait to see what other movies they introduce the new art.
It's been really exciting to see everything they did introduce in this next set.
They're going to have Saturday morning cartoons, the Saturday afternoon cartoons, Disney afternoon
cartoons.
Yeah.
Like tales and the tales.
I don't think I have anything like, man, I really wish the game will do this.
Like, I don't want to see them change things.
I'm cool with there not being a sideboard and competitive Lurkana because it makes your
deck have to do more.
I think that the answers for aggressive decks are very, very potent and strong in the game
already.
And I think them designing cards to answer specific things is a really elegant way for
them to approach the subject.
Like right now I don't feel like a hyper aggro deck is just the best deck in the format,
but there's plenty of answers, right?
Grab Your Sword is a ridiculously powerful card.
I've gotten like six and sevens for one with Grab Your Swords.
And that card I don't feel is overpowered either because in other matches it does absolutely
nothing and I can't wait to draw, use a steel card to make any draw, draw a card so I can
discard it.
I think it's very well balanced and fair and I just want to see them continue that fine
line that they are walking.
We'll close it out here with hope.
Wish Upon A Star, right?
Very thematic for a Disney based podcast and game.
What do you hope that the game does not do or a misstep that you're hoping that the game
avoids?
Because so far it's done pretty good of walking a tightrope.
I hope they don't introduce doing anything on your opponent's turn.
Instant speed effects as we refer to them in Magic or timing effects as they're referred
to in Yu-Gi-Oh!
I think it makes things a lot more difficult.
I like the simplicity of the game and I just don't really think it's needed.
I agree.
I think a sweeping change like that too would make potentially cards that already have come
out worse.
And I agree with you.
I think one thing I want to see the game be weary of is constantly introducing new things.
In Magic, every set they introduce at least one to two new mechanics, typically two and
then reintroduce older mechanics.
There's also something referred to as evergreen mechanics and Lurkana does have that.
Things like evasive and support and bodyguard are cards that have, they don't have the fancy
little text box around them with the cool little name like Fui.
They just have simply that word in bold print.
That's an evergreen mechanic, something we will see in every set.
Resist now has that and we've only seen that since Rise of the Floodborne.
They're not afraid to go, you know what?
We actually didn't introduce any new mechanics outside of the little funny keyworded name
ones for each individual card.
We introduced no old lettered cards or new card types or anything because we simply feel
like we're in a good place for the next couple of sets.
And then we will when we feel like we need to because I don't want the game design team
to get bogged down and then end up making mistakes that will result in one of my least
favorite things which is band lists and like format changes.
Like there's not a legacy format where you can play these specific cards and there's
the always rotating format where they keep an ever expanding band list because I feel
like that pushes players away.
I can't come sit down and play a game with the deck I built because you can't play with
that card.
It's on the band list.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know I was supposed to look at the band list before I came today.
Like these are the only cards I have.
So that immediately undoes so many things they tried to do which is make the game approachable
at every level.
So I really hope that they are cautious with their game design.
And so far I have to say I've been very, very impressed with everything that they've been
putting out there.
Sam, anything in closing other than what you're hoping that does not come to be?
No, I mean, I agree with you on that too.
Like I don't want to see any cards that I have not be able to be used.
No, I don't have anything else.
Okay.
I also have nothing else to contribute for this first episode.
Thank you all so much for hanging out with us in this first maiden voyage of illumination.
We will be back with you with a brand new episode when next you hear us.
We'll be there.
That's how that works.
It's a podcast.
Bye everybody.