WEBVTT 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:11.919 Canines are our passion. They are our addiction. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:15.779 They are our way of life right down to the very 00:00:15.779 --> 00:00:19.160 core. And without them, we would be lost. The 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:21.519 canines of this world really are something to 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.780 behold. They assist us at work. They accompany 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:27.620 us at home. And they perform for us in the field. 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:30.739 No matter where we go, they are by our side. 00:00:31.539 --> 00:00:34.600 Canines really are a ride or die, and for that, 00:00:34.659 --> 00:00:38.299 we are grateful. This podcast will showcase working 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:40.820 canines of various breeds and disciplines as 00:00:40.820 --> 00:00:43.359 we search for those canines and their handlers 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:45.820 who are always striving to be the best at what 00:00:45.820 --> 00:00:49.579 they do. Those who are always grinding. Those 00:00:49.579 --> 00:00:52.719 who are always pushing the limits. Those who 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:56.520 are always dogging. Join us on our adventures 00:00:56.520 --> 00:01:00.219 as it is sure to be a wild ride. I'm your host, 00:01:00.340 --> 00:01:03.140 Bryce Matthews. And I'm your co -host, Stephen 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:16.299 Basham. And this, this is Semper Doggo. Welcome, 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.040 welcome, welcome to another episode of the Simper 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.200 Doggin Podcast, guys. I am your host, Bryce Matthews, 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.819 and today we are joined by Mr. Stephen Basham 00:01:24.819 --> 00:01:27.680 and Mr. Jeremy Cox. How's it going, gentlemen? 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:31.299 What's going on, guys? Good, good. Man, that 00:01:31.299 --> 00:01:33.319 is awesome. You staying awake over there? I'm 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.000 trying, dude. I'm freaking snoozing. You know, 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.799 Nikki's been working me like a dog. And then 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.500 starting a new job. I know, man. Yeah, we're 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:43.939 slinging campers now. RV sales is getting wild. 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:46.920 We had to go chase some money here. It's about 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.140 that time of year. I'm telling you, it's nonstop. 00:01:50.340 --> 00:01:52.459 I mean, from 7 .30 in the morning to 5 o 'clock 00:01:52.459 --> 00:01:55.340 at night. I forgot to eat lunch today. It's crazy. 00:01:56.980 --> 00:02:00.239 I need to eat lunch every now and then. Oh, man. 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:03.319 Something I didn't realize until we were talking 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:07.989 before we went on air was... I guess in my head, 00:02:08.030 --> 00:02:10.830 I'm thinking of just like a normal car salesman. 00:02:11.409 --> 00:02:14.930 It's whoever comes in. And Bryce is sitting here 00:02:14.930 --> 00:02:17.969 telling me that he sold one to a lady in Washington 00:02:17.969 --> 00:02:20.949 and then one to a lady in Texas. So I guess I 00:02:20.949 --> 00:02:25.150 just didn't understand the concept of why would 00:02:25.150 --> 00:02:29.650 someone from Washington buy a camper in Indiana? 00:02:30.050 --> 00:02:32.270 Like if I was looking for a camper, I would just 00:02:32.270 --> 00:02:37.509 go down the road to the local camper. and I would 00:02:37.509 --> 00:02:40.389 buy one from there. So I guess I just don't understand 00:02:40.389 --> 00:02:43.169 that concept. Well, do you like to save money? 00:02:44.889 --> 00:02:47.150 Yeah, but is it really saving you money if you've 00:02:47.150 --> 00:02:48.930 got to pay for transport too? Let me tell you 00:02:48.930 --> 00:02:51.009 something here. That lady in Washington and the 00:02:51.009 --> 00:02:53.430 guy in Texas, both of them, I got them the unit 00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:56.259 that they wanted. with all the aftermarkets oh 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:59.259 god here we go this is not a sales pitch this 00:02:59.259 --> 00:03:02.120 is the this is the facts we are at rv dynasty 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:05.099 we are the number one rv camp or forest river 00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:07.639 dealer in the country okay by the end of 2025 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:10.240 we are on track to be in the top five of independent 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:14.139 rv dealerships in the nation here's why because 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:16.479 we operate like amazon right we're wholesalers 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:19.669 so forest river We're Forest River exclusive, 00:03:19.849 --> 00:03:21.870 and I know this is not dog related, but I got 00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:24.770 to just tell you this. This is crazy, okay? Hey, 00:03:24.909 --> 00:03:27.849 guys, he is excited about his new job. Here we 00:03:27.849 --> 00:03:29.409 go. I'm telling you, it's so much fun. I get 00:03:29.409 --> 00:03:30.830 to deal with people all over the country all 00:03:30.830 --> 00:03:33.509 day long, right? So we're Forest River exclusive. 00:03:34.229 --> 00:03:36.330 Those two people in Washington and in Texas, 00:03:36.409 --> 00:03:38.710 I got them the unit they wanted with the aftermarkets 00:03:38.710 --> 00:03:43.069 they wanted, plus shipped at $2 .85 a mile, cheaper 00:03:43.069 --> 00:03:45.069 than they could go 20 minutes down the road and 00:03:45.069 --> 00:03:48.099 buy it from their local dealer. Do you sell them 00:03:48.099 --> 00:03:52.360 John Strickland campers? No, we're not into the 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.400 drive -around vans. We do have a couple of Class 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.719 C motorhomes. We don't have any vans. I thought 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.300 you meant the mini pop -up campers for midgets. 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:07.460 No, I was talking about one of those that you 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:11.780 drive to a hunt and it brings all the good luck 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:15.259 with it. If we had those, I'd buy one for myself. 00:04:16.350 --> 00:04:18.430 Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey, we didn't come here 00:04:18.430 --> 00:04:20.250 and talk about campers and RV sales, but just 00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:22.149 so you know, RV dynasty, Bryce Matthews, you 00:04:22.149 --> 00:04:23.870 guys need a camper anywhere in the country, East 00:04:23.870 --> 00:04:26.810 coast, West coast. I am your guy. Okay. Over 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:30.370 off my soapbox. So, guys, today we did bring 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:32.629 Jeremy Cox on here. This is somebody that Basham 00:04:32.629 --> 00:04:34.949 and I have both known for quite a while. You 00:04:34.949 --> 00:04:36.689 know, Basham gets to hang out with him more than 00:04:36.689 --> 00:04:39.089 I do. They are kind of more local to each other 00:04:39.089 --> 00:04:41.250 geography -wise. But Jeremy's going to bring 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:43.370 a really interesting side to this podcast today, 00:04:43.449 --> 00:04:45.569 guys. We can talk a little bit of Coonhound stuff 00:04:45.569 --> 00:04:47.509 here, but really what... what he's going to bring 00:04:47.509 --> 00:04:50.170 into into this podcast and simper dog and is 00:04:50.170 --> 00:04:53.329 is more of like a police canine military canine 00:04:53.329 --> 00:04:55.790 side of things um you know jeremy and basham 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:59.490 both have experience serving overseas um as canine 00:04:59.490 --> 00:05:02.370 handlers um and in that world so tonight we're 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:04.810 just gonna we're kind of focused more on that 00:05:04.810 --> 00:05:06.670 um obviously we got to tie some coon hounds in 00:05:06.670 --> 00:05:08.209 here because we're coon hunters at heart but 00:05:08.209 --> 00:05:10.050 but we're gonna just roll into that a little 00:05:10.050 --> 00:05:12.149 bit deeper so basham why don't you give us started 00:05:12.149 --> 00:05:14.709 buddy um you and jeremy kind of set this thing 00:05:14.709 --> 00:05:18.079 up at a hunt a couple weeks ago Yeah, so what 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:20.699 really interests me about Jeremy was the fact 00:05:20.699 --> 00:05:24.819 of there's not too many people out there. You 00:05:24.819 --> 00:05:27.879 know, Heath Hyatt, you know, there's a few, but 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:30.079 there's not too many people out there that know 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:35.620 the different realms of working dogs. And so, 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.600 Jeremy, it's kind of funny, real quick. uh before 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.500 jeremy gets on here and gives his spiel it's 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:44.040 kind of funny how it all worked out i was selling 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.639 a coon dog and jeremy called me up and we got 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.180 to talking about this coon dog and he wanted 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:52.480 to come down and try it out so he come down to 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.420 try it out and come to find out as we're sitting 00:05:55.420 --> 00:05:58.319 there talking in the woods he was in baghdad 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.000 iraq at the same time i was he was a canine handler 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.310 and so that just kind of uh sparked the interest 00:06:05.310 --> 00:06:07.430 between me and him you know having that common 00:06:07.430 --> 00:06:11.029 ground and so uh jeremy i appreciate you joining 00:06:11.029 --> 00:06:13.689 us here on the simper dogging podcast and uh 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:16.769 for the listeners just kind of go over your background 00:06:16.769 --> 00:06:19.550 who you are where you're from where you got into 00:06:19.550 --> 00:06:23.290 dogs and uh where that has taken you to this 00:06:23.290 --> 00:06:28.709 point yeah so uh jeremy cox i'm from central 00:06:28.709 --> 00:06:31.709 illinois a little town i live in a little town 00:06:31.709 --> 00:06:35.500 called tower hill And, man, we got a Casey's 00:06:35.500 --> 00:06:38.360 gas station and a post office. And that's about 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.620 it. That's all you need. Hold up. That's it. 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.279 Have you ever had the breakfast burritos at Casey's? 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:49.220 Well, yes, I have. I'm not a big, big breakfast 00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:55.160 person. But, you know, at Casey's, they got some 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.240 pretty decent coffee when you live out in the 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.339 middle of nowhere. And it's, you know, it's the 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:06.149 only option. A little rabbit story. I used to 00:07:06.149 --> 00:07:09.790 eat a burrito every morning, and then a guy looked 00:07:09.790 --> 00:07:11.810 at me and said, man, he said, do you know how 00:07:11.810 --> 00:07:13.949 many calories are in them damn things? And I'm 00:07:13.949 --> 00:07:16.209 like, no. Do I look like a guy that looks at 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:20.610 calories? I flipped that darn thing over. I've 00:07:20.610 --> 00:07:23.350 seen 1 ,400 calories, and I don't know that I've 00:07:23.350 --> 00:07:29.769 eaten one since. It's like an MRE. I love me 00:07:29.769 --> 00:07:34.680 some Casey's. Me too. Go ahead, Jeremy. So the 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.279 funny part of me and Bastion's story that he 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.360 left out in the beginning is not only were we 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:47.079 in Iraq together, but we were actually on the 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.220 exact same compound. We probably walked past 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:56.779 each other three or four times a week and never 00:07:56.779 --> 00:07:59.139 come in contact with each other somehow, some 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:03.680 way. We were literally at the same place at the 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.300 exact same time. He probably looked at me and 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:08.639 snubbed his nose because I was in suit and tie. 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:13.600 Yeah, right, right. That would have been a scary 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.740 sight to see. Oh, hey, I can clean up pretty 00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:20.060 good, but I was on APD, which is the Ambassador 00:08:20.060 --> 00:08:22.800 Private Detail, and so I had to be in suit and 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.360 tie all the time. Yeah. But no, my background 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:34.500 with the dogs, you know, the coon hunting side, 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:39.460 my dad and uncle was coon hunting probably before 00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:42.200 I was born. I mean, certainly before I can really 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:46.679 remember. So I grew up coon hunting and we was 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.440 just, my entire life, we was just never without 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:53.419 a dog. Whether it was a coon dog or, you know, 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:56.799 we had... german shepherds and you know we always 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.919 just had dogs and i got into law enforcement 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:06.000 and my first uh the department i first started 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:12.659 my career with uh started a canine unit small 00:09:12.659 --> 00:09:20.000 town i was up in maine and uh we we just had 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.360 one handler and one dog and so that was really 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:27.740 my my first taste of, of a working dog. And I 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:32.059 wasn't the handler, but dad gum, I, uh, I volunteered 00:09:32.059 --> 00:09:36.279 to, to wear a, you know, a bite sleeve and, and 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:40.179 a, uh, a bite suit. And, you know, somebody that's 00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:42.580 never done that before your, your first, you 00:09:42.580 --> 00:09:45.460 know, time putting that bite suit on it's man, 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:49.120 there's an adrenaline. Oh, definitely. You got 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:52.919 a, you got a Mally coming at you. what looks 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.960 like 90 miles an hour i mean it's just fur and 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.419 teeth and you're wondering if that bite suit's 00:09:58.419 --> 00:10:02.179 gonna hold up well and and you know i guess the 00:10:02.179 --> 00:10:04.940 first bite i ever took was on a sleeve and not 00:10:04.940 --> 00:10:08.279 a i didn't have a suit on and so i hadn't really 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.820 given it much thought until that dog was coming 00:10:10.820 --> 00:10:14.799 down range and then i got thinking well what 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:19.029 if he goes for my leg Or what if he misses this 00:10:19.029 --> 00:10:23.509 leaf? You know, there was a lot of what ifs going 00:10:23.509 --> 00:10:27.870 through my mind in that split, you know, second 00:10:27.870 --> 00:10:32.370 and a half. But that was really my first taste 00:10:32.370 --> 00:10:35.129 of a working dog. And then I, you know, I worked 00:10:35.129 --> 00:10:37.909 in that department for several years and we did 00:10:37.909 --> 00:10:41.990 a lot of, you know, search warrants and, you 00:10:41.990 --> 00:10:45.210 know, traffic stops, narcotic searches and that 00:10:45.210 --> 00:10:52.120 type of stuff. I later had moved back home to 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.659 Illinois, and I started with a department here 00:10:55.659 --> 00:11:00.399 in Illinois, and they did not have a canine unit. 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:07.679 And so after a little research and that, we made 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:13.740 a stab at it and started our own. you know, canine 00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:16.399 unit. And I was, I was able to, to get a dog. 00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:21.720 I actually went to, uh, Von Lick, uh, to pick 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.700 out my dog, which is in, uh, Peru, Indiana. Yeah. 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.259 I mean that Von Lick and, uh, Kenny Licklider, 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:29.399 they're about five minutes up the road from me. 00:11:29.419 --> 00:11:32.000 Yep. Yes. Yep. That's where Heath Hyatt gets 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.179 his dogs from too sometimes. Well, get some train 00:11:34.179 --> 00:11:37.840 down and stuff. Yeah. We went, uh, so we went 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.100 there, me and another, uh, canine handler here 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:44.519 in Illinois. Uh, We took a weekend and went over 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:49.200 there to Licklider's and we tested a few dogs. 00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:53.580 And, you know, I was making my list of, you know, 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.419 pros and cons. And, you know, he was a pretty 00:11:57.419 --> 00:12:00.740 experienced handler. He had done, you know, I 00:12:00.740 --> 00:12:05.440 think he was on maybe his third dog. And so I 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.379 asked him before we ever went over there, I said, 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:10.820 man, I said, I want you to take this list of 00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:14.600 dogs we're going to look at. And as we're looking 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:16.539 at them, I want you to write your own notes down. 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.539 I said, because I really want to, you know, try 00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:22.519 to first day, try to narrow this down to, you 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:24.519 know, three or four dogs. Cause I mean, we're 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.019 going over there to look at 30 dogs, you know, 00:12:27.019 --> 00:12:28.720 it's going to take a while. I mean, we're, we're 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.539 going to look at them, uh, you know, doing a 00:12:31.539 --> 00:12:35.639 little bite work, uh, maybe a little, uh, tracking, 00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:39.440 uh, definitely some, some, uh, you know, odor 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.610 detection and that type of thing. I said, I just 00:12:42.610 --> 00:12:46.309 want you to make your own notes and stuff and 00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:51.789 not tell me what your top three or five or whatever 00:12:51.789 --> 00:12:55.490 is, but I want to have that to fall back on. 00:12:56.549 --> 00:13:00.669 So by the end of the day, we had looked at most 00:13:00.669 --> 00:13:03.090 all of them, but we had narrowed it down to three, 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:09.919 and I had two of his three. the dog that we ended 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:12.840 up going with, we both had on our list and, and 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.519 we had both kind of narrowed him down to the 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:16.779 very last one. There was just a few different 00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:19.580 things that, you know, we really liked about 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:24.120 him. Uh, and he turned out, his name was Brom, 00:13:24.139 --> 00:13:28.059 uh, Belgian Malinois. And he was only about, 00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:31.200 I don't know, I think he was like maybe 18 months 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.840 old when we got him. Um, but we went through. 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.519 I can't remember now. It was a long time ago. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:42.840 I think it was in 2012 or 13. The school then, 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.799 I believe, was eight weeks for a dual -purpose 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:51.440 dog. But we stayed over there. So Licklider at 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:53.000 the time, I don't know if they still do or not, 00:13:53.139 --> 00:13:56.659 but they had half of the old Air Force base. 00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.179 What's that name of the Air Force base over there? 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:04.059 Grissom? Yes, yes. So it shut down, or part of 00:14:04.059 --> 00:14:07.100 it did. And so they had, you know, part of the 00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:09.740 housing from that old Air Force base. And that's 00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:11.980 where we all stayed. And we did a lot of the 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:13.580 training in some of those buildings and stuff 00:14:13.580 --> 00:14:15.240 over there. So I was over there for about eight 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.139 weeks working with this dog. And when we test 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:21.480 them out over there, I mean, they're pretty green. 00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:24.980 You know, they got the basics and stuff. But 00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:27.100 they're not finished dogs by any stretch of the 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:31.340 imagination. And the good thing about it, you 00:14:31.340 --> 00:14:34.799 know, getting them that way is... finishing them 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:38.200 on out or or the next eight weeks worth of training 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.559 is done by the handler that's going to be handling 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.200 them yeah so and so you really spend that next 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.100 eight weeks you know bonding training you're 00:14:51.100 --> 00:14:53.259 the one giving them the commands the new things 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:56.480 that they learn they learn from you they learn 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.659 from your voice um yeah and so you guys kind 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:04.389 of And there's a lot of times that, you know, 00:15:04.389 --> 00:15:07.210 dogs are like people. They have personalities. 00:15:08.789 --> 00:15:11.549 There's certain dogs that just are not going 00:15:11.549 --> 00:15:17.049 to click with a handle. And you see that, you 00:15:17.049 --> 00:15:19.029 know, you see guys in the coon hunting world 00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:24.850 that can take a dog and just win everywhere they 00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:27.509 take it. And then you can see another handler 00:15:27.509 --> 00:15:29.649 jump on that same dog. He can't win a cast, save 00:15:29.649 --> 00:15:31.929 his life. You know, you, you've seen it time 00:15:31.929 --> 00:15:34.929 and time again, but I think it's more noticeable 00:15:34.929 --> 00:15:39.070 in the working dogs. The personalities are, you 00:15:39.070 --> 00:15:43.769 know, really come to light. So we, you know, 00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:46.129 we spent about, like I said, eight weeks over 00:15:46.129 --> 00:15:53.750 there and we come home. I think it was maybe, 00:15:53.870 --> 00:15:57.129 and we, we're a small town, but you know, a rural 00:15:57.129 --> 00:15:59.899 town with a large. farm community all around 00:15:59.899 --> 00:16:04.700 us and i i think it was the first three months 00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:10.519 maybe on the road just in traffic stops and narcotic 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:15.200 searches i mean we ended up uh it was six or 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.320 six or seven guns um wow that's pretty impressive 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:23.500 from vehicles that were were drug related yeah 00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:28.779 um so it's you know it was a blast uh I had a 00:16:28.779 --> 00:16:33.480 lot of fun doing it. I got out of law enforcement. 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.059 Yeah, I was going to say, how did you transfer 00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.379 from law enforcement to overseas? How did that 00:16:38.379 --> 00:16:43.759 happen? I had enough years in to secure my retirement 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.379 between the two departments that I worked for. 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:56.440 In 2017, I was really just getting an itch. to 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:00.460 go overseas and I had known guys that had got 00:17:00.460 --> 00:17:06.700 into contracting security contracting basically 00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:12.660 it's do you remember the company called Blackwater 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:17.960 it was several years ago they were a security 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:22.769 contractor they contract for Some of the contracts 00:17:22.769 --> 00:17:26.230 are with DOD. Some of them are with the Department 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:29.289 of State. So I worked for the Department of State. 00:17:29.369 --> 00:17:31.829 I contracted for them as a bomb dog handler. 00:17:32.250 --> 00:17:36.150 And that's pretty much – so for the listeners 00:17:36.150 --> 00:17:38.190 that don't know, what happened was Blackwater, 00:17:38.309 --> 00:17:41.670 everybody, any of your old military guys, they 00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:48.900 know the – that Blackwater ran into, and they 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:52.339 were made to sell out, which they sold out to 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:55.819 Triple Canopy. Triple Canopy was then bought 00:17:55.819 --> 00:18:01.200 by a big umbrella group called the Olive Group, 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:06.039 which is actually Constellus. Constellus bought 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.720 up Blackwater, the Academy, the whole nine yards. 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.039 If I'm not mistaken, you worked for SOC, didn't 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:16.039 you? I did. Yeah, you worked for SOC. So you 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:18.720 basically kind of had three contractors over 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.460 there at the time that we were over there. You 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:27.720 had SOC, AMK9, and then Triple Canopy. And AMK9 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.279 was – so I think Triple Canopy mostly had the 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:37.339 contract that you guys were on, correct? Yes. 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:43.079 When you were with Triple Canopy. And AMK9 was 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:47.359 kind of – phasing out. They didn't have too, 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.400 too many guys left over there. I think they had 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:58.559 maybe some, some mobile guys, but they over on 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:03.140 Condor where we were was all that was left was, 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.920 was SOC. But that's anyway, that's how I ended 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.259 up over there is I had enough years in between 00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:12.759 the two departments to secure my law enforcement 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:16.549 retirement. And I had just known guys that had 00:19:16.549 --> 00:19:23.549 went, done that, the experiences they had. And 00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:27.309 I just, man, I really had an itch to do it. You 00:19:27.309 --> 00:19:30.529 know, I did not join the military when I was 00:19:30.529 --> 00:19:33.789 young enough. And that was kind of always a regret 00:19:33.789 --> 00:19:36.309 that I had because my grandpa was a veteran. 00:19:38.049 --> 00:19:43.289 My dad was Air Force. And, you know, I never... 00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:46.410 ended up in the military somehow and here i'm 00:19:46.410 --> 00:19:50.670 you know in my early 40s and i'm i'm going to 00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:55.089 iraq so i kind of did it backwards you know for 00:19:55.089 --> 00:19:59.630 for the listeners i i would suggest uh starting 00:19:59.630 --> 00:20:02.549 that career when when you're young it's a whole 00:20:02.549 --> 00:20:06.109 lot easier i mean just just the plane flight 00:20:06.109 --> 00:20:11.329 alone bryce you couldn't imagine 14 hours straight 00:20:11.329 --> 00:20:17.750 on one plane oh so my okay a little bit off topic 00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:20.650 but we knew we was going off topic anyway so 00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:25.130 i mean i got to listen out there though uh so 00:20:25.130 --> 00:20:32.509 i'm not like a huge huge fan of uh planes and 00:20:32.509 --> 00:20:34.910 flying you know a couple hours here and there 00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:38.970 that that's fine 14 hours that that's a different 00:20:38.970 --> 00:20:42.250 story Hey, I did that one time on the way to 00:20:42.250 --> 00:20:51.349 Australia. 14 hours. Oh, you did? Yeah. I board 00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:55.630 this plane and it's like a row of three seats. 00:20:56.710 --> 00:21:01.849 No. It's got three seats up against the window 00:21:01.849 --> 00:21:04.650 and then there's an aisle and then there's like 00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:08.730 four seats in an aisle and then there's like 00:21:09.349 --> 00:21:12.269 another four seats over against that far window. 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:17.529 So it's like 11 seats across. And I mean, it 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:19.549 goes as far back as you can see. The thing's 00:21:19.549 --> 00:21:24.569 huge. Well, I get on this plane and I go to my 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:31.450 row and it's a window row. But my seat is right 00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:34.150 smack dab in the middle of the three. I'm the 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:37.809 center. Oh, you're screwed. I got this guy on 00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:43.380 the aisle. And this bigger woman on the window. 00:21:44.019 --> 00:21:48.799 Well, I'm sitting there. We're waiting for the 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.539 runway. And these two start talking back and 00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:53.680 forth. And they're like leaning forward and like 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.559 talking past me. And I realize this is a husband 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.759 and wife. So I'm like, hey, would one of y 'all 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:06.240 like to, you know, maybe switch seats with me? 00:22:06.689 --> 00:22:08.750 He's like, oh, no, we bought them this way. He 00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:10.750 says, I'm tall, so I need the aisle so I can 00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:13.170 stretch my legs out. And she likes to look out 00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:17.369 the window. And I'm thinking, well, this is going 00:22:17.369 --> 00:22:21.730 to be a long flight. Man, we ain't even taken 00:22:21.730 --> 00:22:25.369 off yet, and these jokers are passing food back 00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:26.910 and forth. They're like pulling out a daggum 00:22:26.910 --> 00:22:30.170 snack bag. And I'm like, how'd you even get that 00:22:30.170 --> 00:22:33.589 on here? And they're passing crackers back and 00:22:33.589 --> 00:22:37.950 forth and juice boxes. i'm like holy cow well 00:22:37.950 --> 00:22:43.049 we get ready to take off i kid you not this joker 00:22:43.049 --> 00:22:45.269 gets down on the floor and starts doing his prayers 00:22:45.269 --> 00:22:49.170 these guys are muslims and i'm like holy hell 00:22:49.170 --> 00:22:54.650 i am screwed this went on for 14 hours you know 00:22:54.650 --> 00:22:57.329 every time this woman had to had to go to the 00:22:57.329 --> 00:23:00.750 bathroom or something which was uh once an hour 00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:04.930 i mean she's climbing over the top of me and 00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:09.009 you know, pressing right into me. It was miserable. 00:23:09.269 --> 00:23:13.190 14 hours of that. And this is a guy that I ain't 00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:16.609 all that keen on flying, you know, long distance 00:23:16.609 --> 00:23:19.970 to begin with, but it was quite the experience. 00:23:20.390 --> 00:23:25.150 Man. So let's dive into the actual dog aspect 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.609 of it, Jeremy. You know, one thing that really 00:23:27.609 --> 00:23:30.269 interests me about... the conversation that we 00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:34.430 had was the differences and, you know, and what 00:23:34.430 --> 00:23:38.970 people, what people think about the hound versus 00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:42.569 the canine. And, you know, just like what me 00:23:42.569 --> 00:23:45.349 and you were talking about, about the, the drive 00:23:45.349 --> 00:23:48.490 in them, you know, whereas the canines are more 00:23:48.490 --> 00:23:52.650 toy oriented. So let's talk, let's talk about 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:54.789 the difference. You know, we all, we all know 00:23:54.789 --> 00:23:57.289 we've been on this podcast and talked about, 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.740 what we're looking for in a puppy, what we're 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:04.319 looking for in a young dog that's going to make 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:07.740 a good dog. What exactly, when you went up to 00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:10.839 Peru, what are some of the traits that you're 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:16.259 looking for in a canine to be able to purchase? 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:21.220 What are those traits? You know, the first thing 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:26.200 that... that we were looking for so we were going 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:31.339 with a a dual purpose hound or hound uh dog and 00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:36.859 we were looking for one uh even though we were 00:24:36.859 --> 00:24:39.160 looking for for dual purpose apprehension and 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:44.160 detection uh the detection was was the big thing 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.940 uh the drug detection yep and and you know for 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:52.240 people that are not familiar with working dogs 00:24:54.109 --> 00:25:01.029 working dog, you have to have ball drive. You 00:25:01.029 --> 00:25:05.589 give me a dog that will absolutely lose his mind 00:25:05.589 --> 00:25:09.970 over a tennis ball, I can make that dog find 00:25:09.970 --> 00:25:15.630 anything you want to find. I've been asked a 00:25:15.630 --> 00:25:20.170 thousand times, can you train a coonhound the 00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:23.210 same way that you can train a a working dog, 00:25:23.329 --> 00:25:26.630 you know, a drug dog? And the answer is no, you 00:25:26.630 --> 00:25:41.750 can't. So the working dogs, they have just an 00:25:41.750 --> 00:25:48.569 altogether different drive than hounds do. So 00:25:48.569 --> 00:25:53.490 when we start a an odor detection dog, like, 00:25:53.549 --> 00:25:56.430 like for a drug, let's just talk about drug dogs 00:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.170 for a minute. Uh, there is a couple of different 00:26:00.170 --> 00:26:05.950 methods of training a, a working dog to, uh, 00:26:06.130 --> 00:26:12.490 detect odor. And one method that we use that 00:26:12.490 --> 00:26:17.730 lick lighter is, um, some, some call it the cocktail 00:26:17.730 --> 00:26:21.460 and some call it the, the stew method. The reason 00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:26.720 they call it the stew method, you take four or 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:31.500 five odors and put them in one box together. 00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:38.839 And that dog smells all of those odors separately. 00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:43.839 So if you came home and your wife had just made 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.220 a big pot of chili on the stove or was making 00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:49.700 beef stew, you would walk in the house and you 00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:53.910 would smell. chili, or you would smell beef stew. 00:26:54.789 --> 00:27:00.410 That dog would walk in the house and that dog 00:27:00.410 --> 00:27:03.789 would smell each individual ingredient in that 00:27:03.789 --> 00:27:08.130 pot of chili or that pot of stew. He would smell 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:10.549 the parsley. He would smell the basil. He would 00:27:10.549 --> 00:27:13.210 smell the meat. He would smell the carrots, the 00:27:13.210 --> 00:27:16.109 potatoes, whatever was in there. He would smell 00:27:16.109 --> 00:27:21.480 those separately. Whereas we, We just smelled 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:29.220 a big pot of stew. And so we would take an older 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:37.160 box, about a 12 -inch square plywood box. And 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.960 it's got about a 3 -inch, maybe a 4 -inch hole 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.559 in the very top of the box. And then it's got 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.380 a hole about the same in the back of the box. 00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:55.359 And I have to come outside to talk because I 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:58.319 got a new roof put on that's got a metal roof, 00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:03.240 and so I lose reception when I go inside. So 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:08.460 what we would do with that young dog that's just 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:13.079 learning odor is we would post him up in front 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.420 of that box, and we would bounce that tennis 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:19.509 ball. right in front of that box and just jazz 00:28:19.509 --> 00:28:21.990 him up i mean he would just get wound up just 00:28:21.990 --> 00:28:25.349 lose his mind crazy watching that ball and then 00:28:25.349 --> 00:28:30.190 we would go over and drop that ball in the top 00:28:30.190 --> 00:28:37.910 of that hole in that box and so yep we lost him 00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:41.369 we're losing you bud hello going that hello in 00:28:41.369 --> 00:28:43.549 that box and then the handler would walk that 00:28:43.549 --> 00:28:48.280 dog up there as soon as it was in there Yeah. 00:28:48.280 --> 00:28:51.759 We got him back now. We got you now. You got 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:56.420 me now? Yep. All right. So we would drop that 00:28:56.420 --> 00:28:59.180 ball in that hole, and of course that dog would 00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:02.079 see that, and he'd go nuts over it. Well, the 00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:05.240 handler walks him up to that box, and of course 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:07.140 that hole is only three or four inches. He can't 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:08.720 see his whole head in there, but he drives his 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.920 muzzle right down in that hole trying to get 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.640 that ball. Well, the whole time he does that, 00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:17.470 all he's doing is... Sucking in all of that odor. 00:29:17.769 --> 00:29:20.990 Right. Sucking in all of that odor. And we'd 00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:25.930 reach around behind that box and grab that ball 00:29:25.930 --> 00:29:28.569 and lift it up to his muzzle where he can grab 00:29:28.569 --> 00:29:33.549 it. Well, what he don't realize is we just made 00:29:33.549 --> 00:29:36.250 him think that all of that odor was that tennis 00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:41.130 ball. We just tricked him into thinking that 00:29:41.130 --> 00:29:44.779 all of that odor. was that toy that he was wanting 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:49.680 so bad that's a smart way to do it now now we 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:54.759 add a box and we walk him up to two boxes and 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:57.019 he drives his nose in the first one and it's 00:29:57.019 --> 00:29:59.900 going to be blank and he's really going to be 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:02.380 looking for that odor and then we move him to 00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:04.779 the next one he drives his nose in there and 00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:11.900 he finds that odor again and uh You lift that 00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:15.720 ball up to him and he's found his ball. You're 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:21.359 teaching him to find an odor based off of the 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:28.680 desire to find that ball. As long as that dog 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:34.000 has got the ball drive, the hunt drive, you can 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.279 make him find anything you want him to find. 00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.619 So what if you tried to take a coonhound to do 00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:42.579 that? Like, could you train a coonhound to do 00:30:42.579 --> 00:30:46.980 the same thing? The problem is with that is the 00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:51.480 drives are different. You're going to find some 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:57.680 coonhounds that have a little bit of toy drive, 00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:03.859 but it's not going to be significant enough to 00:31:03.859 --> 00:31:07.769 teach them that. It's just, it's night and day 00:31:07.769 --> 00:31:12.309 difference. You know, your coon hounds, yes, 00:31:12.470 --> 00:31:17.670 they have strong nose. Lots of them are wound, 00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:24.250 you know, like a night and day clock. But their 00:31:24.250 --> 00:31:28.309 drives are just night and day difference. I got 00:31:28.309 --> 00:31:32.359 you. It just does not feel the same. Yeah, so 00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.019 when you were over there, you know, Basham and 00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:37.099 you guys were serving over there together. What 00:31:37.099 --> 00:31:41.519 was your favorite part of being over there with 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.900 the dog on an assignment? I've heard some of 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:45.220 Basham's stories. What was your favorite part 00:31:45.220 --> 00:31:50.500 of using the dog over there? I did a lot of the 00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:57.940 ECPs, the control points, coming out of the red 00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:02.660 zone into the green zone. if there was any explosives 00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:07.799 coming in, you know, to the embassy to try to 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.380 detect them and stop them before they got, you 00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:16.200 know, in. That you may run, you know, 1 ,500 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:22.119 vehicles a day. And I don't know. I guess you've 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:26.460 got to be an adrenaline rush. You know, you get 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:32.380 that alert whenever we would. uh, the Iraqi army 00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:35.720 would typically just, uh, you know, they worked 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.819 kind of side by side with an alert on a, on a 00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:42.059 vehicle or whatnot. And, you know, we, we had 00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.519 hand signals with them guys and, and they come 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.599 right down, typically just escort the vehicle 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.900 and really get to find out, you know, what there 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:53.720 was in it, uh, could have been, you know, just 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:57.539 an old residue, um, or, or there could have been 00:32:57.539 --> 00:33:00.059 something big in there. You know, it was, uh, 00:33:01.549 --> 00:33:06.849 There was a lot of those days that was, you know, 00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:09.369 on some of those ECPs that was pretty boring, 00:33:09.430 --> 00:33:11.509 that some of them didn't have a lot of traffic. 00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:16.789 Well, some of those entries, like gates actually 00:33:16.789 --> 00:33:20.289 going into the embassy itself, like where Bastion 00:33:20.289 --> 00:33:23.829 would work. Anytime the ambassador would have 00:33:23.829 --> 00:33:26.890 meetings and vehicles would, you know, come in, 00:33:26.890 --> 00:33:31.410 vehicles would come in. We'd have to. Basham, 00:33:31.430 --> 00:33:33.990 you guys usually line them all up back there 00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:37.369 on the... But now, why did you say that you would 00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:39.089 just escort them around? I don't understand why 00:33:39.089 --> 00:33:45.049 you didn't see what you were alerting on. We 00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:52.710 didn't have U .S. forces, you know, that's their... 00:33:52.710 --> 00:33:58.490 I guess you could say, you know, Iraqi army. 00:33:58.910 --> 00:34:03.549 It's their property. It's their property and 00:34:03.549 --> 00:34:07.910 their country. Gotcha. It's still their land, 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:11.269 still their laws. We're just there kind of for 00:34:11.269 --> 00:34:13.989 support. Now, what it comes to, what a lot of 00:34:13.989 --> 00:34:17.230 people don't realize is the embassy, like America 00:34:17.230 --> 00:34:21.409 owns where they own. So used to, we have green 00:34:21.409 --> 00:34:26.650 zone, amber zone, and red zone. And after we 00:34:26.650 --> 00:34:29.239 pulled most of our... our troops out of there 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:33.679 uh to green zone and that's where the ecp is 00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.199 and so we kind of you know control inside the 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.400 green zone which is no weapons or anything like 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.739 that yeah so we we don't allow them into the 00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:48.360 green checkpoint then then that's that's back 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:59.130 back out um Most likely, they probably tell them 00:34:59.130 --> 00:35:02.989 to try to go get in on some other ECP, you know, 00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:08.289 best of luck vehicle or anything. I got you. 00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:12.409 So were you able to take any of that stuff, still 00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:14.630 doing any type of contract work or anything like 00:35:14.630 --> 00:35:16.269 that? Do you still have any of your old dogs 00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:23.539 or are you mainly just coon hunting now? Now 00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:30.800 I'm pretty much just coon hunting. In 2020, 2019, 00:35:31.340 --> 00:35:36.380 2020, it was New Year's Eve. We got hit at the 00:35:36.380 --> 00:35:43.599 embassy. They bombed us. They blew up our mess 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:49.119 hall. They took a couple of our entries out. 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:54.980 blew up the gates, a couple of the gates going 00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:59.340 into it. In fact, if you Google it, one of the 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.440 pictures that shows up is one of the control 00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:05.880 points on the wall itself, on the embassy wall 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.440 itself. And I was actually stationed on that 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:16.380 checkpoint that day when they attacked us. But 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:22.050 once I... came home from there they they had 00:36:22.050 --> 00:36:25.170 to descale us down to a a certain number just 00:36:25.170 --> 00:36:28.170 because we lost all of our ecps outside the wall 00:36:28.170 --> 00:36:32.690 and so they those of us that were due to come 00:36:32.690 --> 00:36:36.429 home on r r anyway in the next you know few weeks 00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:38.710 or whatever they went ahead and shipped us home 00:36:38.710 --> 00:36:43.110 and we were supposed to sit at home for our 30 00:36:43.110 --> 00:36:45.769 days and then we were supposed to go back over 00:36:45.769 --> 00:36:51.670 and relief the Guys were still there and they 00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:56.170 shut us down. Where we were contractors, we were 00:36:56.170 --> 00:36:58.230 considered civilian contractors. We were not 00:36:58.230 --> 00:37:01.409 military. And so we did not get a fly in and 00:37:01.409 --> 00:37:04.789 out on military flights. They flew us in and 00:37:04.789 --> 00:37:08.650 out on commercial flights. We would always fly 00:37:08.650 --> 00:37:14.369 into either Amman, Jordan or Dubai. and both 00:37:14.369 --> 00:37:16.289 of those countries would not let us in. They 00:37:16.289 --> 00:37:18.829 wouldn't take any. I mean, they shut down their 00:37:18.829 --> 00:37:22.050 airports. And so we sat at home on the bench 00:37:22.050 --> 00:37:29.710 waiting to go back over. I think we lost you 00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:35.110 again. Oh, there you are. Got him back. So, yeah, 00:37:35.250 --> 00:37:38.510 so after COVID hit, you know, I mean, I'm sitting 00:37:38.510 --> 00:37:42.469 at home benched. I end up, uh, waiting around 00:37:42.469 --> 00:37:45.110 for about six months for an okay to go back over 00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:47.949 and they don't, they're still not letting us 00:37:47.949 --> 00:37:52.030 go. And so I ended up, you know, just moving 00:37:52.030 --> 00:37:54.949 on with life, but I, I messed around with a few, 00:37:55.210 --> 00:38:00.110 you know, canine projects, um, you know, just 00:38:00.110 --> 00:38:03.230 recreational more than anything. I, I spent a 00:38:03.230 --> 00:38:06.670 couple of pups up, um, getting them started for, 00:38:06.750 --> 00:38:09.980 for trainers or whatnot. Nice. Then I played 00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:15.699 around with a couple dogs, doing some deer tracking, 00:38:15.860 --> 00:38:22.860 searching for antlers. Played around with one 00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:26.119 for a little bit with morel mushrooms. Oh, wow. 00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:31.059 Searching for mushrooms. Like I said earlier, 00:38:31.219 --> 00:38:33.820 if you've got a dog that's got high, high toy 00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:37.519 drive, to where there is just nothing in the 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:39.280 world that they would not do to get their teeth 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.019 on that tennis ball. You can make them find anything 00:38:42.019 --> 00:38:46.619 you want them to find. They use canines for bed 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:50.400 bug detection. I've seen some billboards for 00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:54.800 that, like in Indy. There is companies that go 00:38:54.800 --> 00:39:02.500 around to hotels with canines, and they search 00:39:02.500 --> 00:39:07.489 the hotels for bed bugs. um cell phones in prison 00:39:07.489 --> 00:39:11.210 canines uh they they they train them on the uh 00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:14.869 the odor of the lithium batteries uh searching 00:39:14.869 --> 00:39:17.949 for cell phones so i mean there's man that the 00:39:17.949 --> 00:39:21.469 canine the the list of of odor detections that 00:39:21.469 --> 00:39:28.389 is just endless but it really does not uh flow 00:39:28.389 --> 00:39:33.659 over into the coon hunting aspect of Two totally 00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:37.340 different styles of working. Two totally different 00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:43.099 types of dogs. Different drives. There are, I 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:46.159 have seen guys that, you know, play fetch with 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.639 their coon dog. You know, throw a tennis ball 00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:52.019 to a knee. Completely different. Brings it back. 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.139 That is not the ball drive we're talking about. 00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:00.809 No, we're talking about a tack ball drive. I 00:40:00.809 --> 00:40:04.750 mean, you got that ball in your hand, that dog, 00:40:04.869 --> 00:40:07.510 I mean, he comes up the leash at you to get that 00:40:07.510 --> 00:40:11.449 ball. There is nothing, no place he won't go 00:40:11.449 --> 00:40:15.989 for that ball. That's the type of ball drive. 00:40:17.090 --> 00:40:20.190 And you just don't see it in hounds. They're 00:40:20.190 --> 00:40:23.769 built different. They're mentally built different. 00:40:26.170 --> 00:40:30.360 There are certain breeds of dogs. other than 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:35.079 what we called pointy -eared dogs. So, you know, 00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:39.519 in the military side of it, the security side 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:42.699 of it, you know, overseas, they started getting 00:40:42.699 --> 00:40:44.920 away from your pointy -eared dogs, which were 00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.659 your German Shepherds, your Belgian Malinois, 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:53.320 and your German and Belgian Crosses. We ran a 00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:59.099 lot of labs. We started getting into phasing 00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:04.380 out the pointy ear dogs, and we started doing 00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:09.179 a lot of labs and a lot of GSPs, German short 00:41:09.179 --> 00:41:15.000 hair pointers. I had a lab for a while, and she 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.800 was just, I'd come off of five different, I'd 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.719 had five different Belgian Malins, four Malinois 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:27.059 and a Dutchie. which a dutchie might as well 00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:34.320 be a malinois but i went from that to a lab completely 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.760 different and i'm like holy cow man i i'm not 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:44.360 geared for this i'm not you see it's slow and 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:48.780 methodical and you know just the way she operates 00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:52.880 is a lot slower pace than what i'm used to um 00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:56.559 If you've ever been around a Mallee, they're 00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:02.239 psychotic. They really are. An actual working 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.599 Malinois is typically not suitable for a family 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:17.320 pet. They're just geared different. But the labs, 00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:21.929 I've seen some good working labs. But there again, 00:42:22.050 --> 00:42:26.750 you're talking a dog that's a natural, free bird. 00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:33.929 That dog is, you know, toy geared. Yeah, completely 00:42:33.929 --> 00:42:39.469 different. Yeah, the GSPs are also a toy driven 00:42:39.469 --> 00:42:44.369 dog, but they are wound up much, much tighter 00:42:44.369 --> 00:42:51.139 than the labs are. So my preference was the pointy 00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:53.000 -eared dogs. That's just what I was used to. 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.599 That was the style I was used to. A lot more 00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.820 faster pace, you know, with your pointy -eared 00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:01.659 than your labs. See, whenever I had the bomb 00:43:01.659 --> 00:43:05.199 dogs, we created the IDD detector dog program 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:08.940 in the Marine Corps, and that was all labs. But, 00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:11.960 you know, kind of transferring that over to the 00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.739 coon hunting world, you know, in my opinion, 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:17.969 I think it's... Like you said, it's day and night 00:43:17.969 --> 00:43:21.010 because, you know, people can sit here and say 00:43:21.010 --> 00:43:24.130 they're dog men, you know, in, in the coon hunting 00:43:24.130 --> 00:43:28.750 world. But for the most part, there's, I mean, 00:43:28.769 --> 00:43:31.130 there's a lot of correction training that goes 00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:35.170 on in the coon hunting world, but nothing, nothing 00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:39.170 like, you know, the, the detection side of it. 00:43:40.349 --> 00:43:47.579 When, so touching on that. A lot of these guys 00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:51.360 that coon hunt and not, you know, not taken away 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:56.219 from any of these guys that have done far more 00:43:56.219 --> 00:44:00.320 winning than I have. But most of these, you know, 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:05.940 professional handlers, they're getting dogs that 00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:12.280 are pretty much already made. And they're learning, 00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:15.909 you know, they're learning that dog. A few tweaks 00:44:15.909 --> 00:44:22.809 still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I'm not 00:44:22.809 --> 00:44:25.869 going to say that those dogs are push -button, 00:44:25.929 --> 00:44:31.550 but, you know, most of them have got a pretty 00:44:31.550 --> 00:44:36.449 good idea already of what's going on. In the 00:44:36.449 --> 00:44:41.670 canine world, you don't even dream of going into 00:44:41.670 --> 00:44:44.849 service with that dog. until you've spent a few 00:44:44.849 --> 00:44:48.389 months with it um because you're you're not going 00:44:48.389 --> 00:44:51.889 to win a hunt your life depends on it your life 00:44:51.889 --> 00:44:55.530 depends on it the life of your entire unit uh 00:44:55.530 --> 00:45:00.389 depends on it you know i have to know what that 00:45:00.389 --> 00:45:03.130 dog is doing at all times when she is at the 00:45:03.130 --> 00:45:06.150 end of my leash whether i am have got her on 00:45:06.150 --> 00:45:12.380 a on a 50 footer or or a hundred footer and i'm 00:45:12.380 --> 00:45:15.699 i'm gridding a road or whether i'm walking down 00:45:15.699 --> 00:45:19.539 a line of uh 50 cars i have to watch her body 00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:25.920 language and um you know it may just be a flinch 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.960 or a head snap and if i miss that and i keep 00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:34.739 on walking you know i i may be pushing her along 00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:37.539 when she needed to back up and and recheck something 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:42.920 It may be something as small as a piece of debt 00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:51.260 cord. I make people laugh a little bit. My son's 00:45:51.260 --> 00:45:55.280 fully autistic. We were putting him in an ABA 00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.360 therapy. I told her that I train dogs. I train 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:04.719 bomb dogs. I said, to be honest, dealing with 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:09.340 my son is a lot like A lot like dealing with 00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:13.920 the bomb dogs. In the hound community, you don't 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.980 get to see the behaviors. You just hear the bark. 00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:21.039 Right. In the detector, right, a tail circling, 00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:26.300 one ear up, one ear down, or two ears all the 00:46:26.300 --> 00:46:29.340 way up, or their hair standing up. Every dog's 00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:34.010 got different tails. identify those tails before 00:46:34.010 --> 00:46:38.030 the action happens you know how to adjust and 00:46:38.030 --> 00:46:41.230 the same way with my son you know if i can identify 00:46:41.230 --> 00:46:44.630 those small little behaviors i can avoid the 00:46:44.630 --> 00:46:48.690 big behaviors yeah yeah and it's you know it's 00:46:48.690 --> 00:46:51.710 uh watching that dog you're also listening to 00:46:51.710 --> 00:46:55.110 that dog you're you're listening for a a change 00:46:55.110 --> 00:46:59.210 in breathing um you know they may be just going 00:46:59.210 --> 00:47:01.170 along and all of a sudden they really really 00:47:01.170 --> 00:47:05.449 start you know breathing heavy um they're sourcing 00:47:05.449 --> 00:47:08.969 an odor you know that tail may be maybe wagging 00:47:08.969 --> 00:47:12.949 and it may just come right to a a screeching 00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:20.889 halt um you know my bomb dog was uh well my my 00:47:20.889 --> 00:47:25.309 narcotic dogs um most everything in the last 00:47:25.309 --> 00:47:27.769 several years has been trained detection wise 00:47:27.769 --> 00:47:34.570 has been trained to to a passive alert um you 00:47:34.570 --> 00:47:37.550 know used to you had an aggressive alert and 00:47:37.550 --> 00:47:39.989 your narcotics dogs to where when they smelled 00:47:39.989 --> 00:47:42.250 odor i mean they would just go nuts they'd be 00:47:42.250 --> 00:47:45.389 clawing at the source of the odor they'd be biting 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:49.449 at the source of the odor after lawsuits from 00:47:49.449 --> 00:47:52.570 you know vehicles being damaged and stuff they 00:47:52.570 --> 00:47:56.050 they started going to a more passive alert but 00:47:56.050 --> 00:48:04.119 if i am working a narcotics dog I want him, when 00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:06.960 he finds that odor, when he hits that odor, I 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:10.159 want him to really source it out and pinpoint 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:13.019 where it's coming from, whether it's a door seam 00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:19.340 or up underneath the front nose clip of the vehicle. 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:21.940 I want him to source that odor out and show me 00:48:21.940 --> 00:48:23.739 where it's coming from because I've got to find 00:48:23.739 --> 00:48:29.179 the source of this odor. Whereas with an explosive 00:48:29.179 --> 00:48:34.929 detection dog, When she hits odor, I don't want 00:48:34.929 --> 00:48:40.130 her going past that point and start digging and 00:48:40.130 --> 00:48:45.190 really looking and finding, you know, putting 00:48:45.190 --> 00:48:48.670 her nose on the actual source. You know, if I'm 00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:51.969 doing a roadside and she's, you know, 100 foot 00:48:51.969 --> 00:48:54.449 up in front of me or 50 foot up in front of me 00:48:54.449 --> 00:48:57.289 on a long line and she's gridding that road, 00:48:57.429 --> 00:48:59.909 when she comes to a stop, when she hits that 00:48:59.909 --> 00:49:04.670 odor, She would just take, and I don't, I mean, 00:49:04.670 --> 00:49:07.429 we didn't really train her to do this, but it 00:49:07.429 --> 00:49:10.769 was just her style. When she would be walking 00:49:10.769 --> 00:49:13.010 along, when she'd hit odor, it was almost like 00:49:13.010 --> 00:49:15.929 she had set back a step, and then she would just 00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:20.010 lay down, and she was froze right there. She 00:49:20.010 --> 00:49:23.630 didn't take another step. You know, in a building, 00:49:23.750 --> 00:49:26.650 you tell where the odor was just based off of, 00:49:26.690 --> 00:49:31.019 you know, her position and her focus and that 00:49:31.019 --> 00:49:34.179 type of thing. But if you were outside, you know, 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:37.400 you weren't really wanting to find out where 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.980 that actual odor was coming from. You would end 00:49:39.980 --> 00:49:42.619 up recalling her back to you at that point. And 00:49:42.619 --> 00:49:46.199 then, you know, your, your bomb guys would, would 00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.619 go in and take care of it from there. Uh, but 00:49:48.619 --> 00:49:51.159 it's two totally different, you know, styles 00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.840 of detection between, uh, narcotics and bombs. 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:58.579 But it was all about, you know learning the dog 00:49:58.579 --> 00:50:03.440 learning the body language uh it was visual yeah 00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:05.420 and the same thing can be said in the coon hunting 00:50:05.420 --> 00:50:08.300 world you know learning the bark learning the 00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:10.760 everything and you know for all the listeners 00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:12.820 you know that's kind of why i brought jeremy 00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:16.579 on here was just a kind of a different perspective 00:50:16.579 --> 00:50:20.039 you know we get caught up in you know they're 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.519 talking about this talking about that but the 00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.079 at the end of the day whether you know we go 00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.570 from from from the what was it from the bears 00:50:28.570 --> 00:50:31.530 to the chairs? That's right. You know, you know, 00:50:31.530 --> 00:50:33.230 here it's simple dog and we go from the bears 00:50:33.230 --> 00:50:35.789 to the chairs. So whether it's, you know, in 00:50:35.789 --> 00:50:38.789 the chair at your feet, you know, whether it's 00:50:38.789 --> 00:50:41.769 out there on a bear, the biggest thing is spending 00:50:41.769 --> 00:50:44.590 time with that dog, learning that dog, learning 00:50:44.590 --> 00:50:50.369 what that dog, you know, if you listen, hold 00:50:50.369 --> 00:50:54.329 on, here's a hard take. If you listen, I'm not 00:50:54.329 --> 00:50:57.630 crazy when I say this. if you listen dogs will 00:50:57.630 --> 00:51:02.469 talk to you but you have to open the line of 00:51:02.469 --> 00:51:05.110 communication between you and that hound or you 00:51:05.110 --> 00:51:07.849 and that dog to open that line of communication 00:51:07.849 --> 00:51:14.369 and and it is you know listening it's creating 00:51:14.369 --> 00:51:18.570 that that bond to where you actually understand 00:51:18.570 --> 00:51:22.309 that animal that animal understands you um and 00:51:22.309 --> 00:51:26.800 like i said earlier on There's sometimes, you 00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:31.519 know, personality conflicts between what's on 00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.980 one end of the leash and what's on the other 00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:38.639 end of the leash. You know, we would say this 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:43.579 in the, you know, canine training. Your feelings, 00:51:43.659 --> 00:51:46.619 your frustrations are running down that leash 00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:52.159 to that dog. And it's that dog is feeling your 00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:55.480 frustration, you know, through that leash. Um, 00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:59.980 but it's, you know, listening to that dog, learning 00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:04.260 that the, what each of those, you know, barks 00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:08.559 and sounds, uh, you know, are, are, are meaning 00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:11.000 just like watching the body language of a working 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:13.860 dog. Yeah, man. I mean, that's, that's super 00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:16.199 true and it can be. said in a lot of different 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:18.199 facets. People, if you guys listen to Nikki's 00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:21.199 podcast with us a couple weeks ago, she said 00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:22.900 the same thing. The dog can tell your emotions 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:25.780 running down that lead. Whether you're in the 00:52:25.780 --> 00:52:28.219 show ring or whether you're handling a bomb dog 00:52:28.219 --> 00:52:31.300 or whether you're doing any kind of therapy dog, 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.519 them dogs, they feed off of people. Man, Jeremy, 00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:36.860 I appreciate you joining us today, man. This 00:52:36.860 --> 00:52:39.420 has been a great insight into kind of a different 00:52:39.420 --> 00:52:41.039 side of things that we don't get to talk about 00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.460 here on Simple Dogging very often. Man, you're 00:52:43.460 --> 00:52:44.869 a wealth of knowledge. You got a bunch of good 00:52:44.869 --> 00:52:47.369 old war stories. And I still can't believe that 00:52:47.369 --> 00:52:49.670 you and Basham didn't run past each other and 00:52:49.670 --> 00:52:51.670 notice each other, I guess, while you were over 00:52:51.670 --> 00:52:56.050 there in Iraq. Well, I never knew him beforehand. 00:52:56.369 --> 00:52:58.530 That's what I'm saying, yeah. I never would have 00:52:58.530 --> 00:53:01.409 noticed him. And it was just weird that he ended 00:53:01.409 --> 00:53:04.610 up buying a dog from me. And so that's when we 00:53:04.610 --> 00:53:08.150 actually met up. It's a small world. That would 00:53:08.150 --> 00:53:13.670 have been probably later on in 2020. You know, 00:53:13.690 --> 00:53:15.969 probably the fall of 2020 is when I bought him, 00:53:16.030 --> 00:53:21.670 right? Oh, crash. Yep. One Kai Roberts head. 00:53:21.849 --> 00:53:24.909 It was crush. Yep. Crush, crush, crush. Yeah, 00:53:24.949 --> 00:53:29.309 and Kai ended up with him back after we sold 00:53:29.309 --> 00:53:33.230 him. And, man, he was eight or nine years old 00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:36.789 and still did quite a bit of winning with him. 00:53:37.779 --> 00:53:40.539 yep absolutely he sure did that was a nice dog 00:53:40.539 --> 00:53:42.099 you know i got to hunt with a couple times but 00:53:42.099 --> 00:53:44.500 hey man we're pushing in on that one hour mark 00:53:44.500 --> 00:53:46.619 here so uh i'm gonna get this thing wrapped up 00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:48.239 here once again jeremy thank you for joining 00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.039 us uh we sure appreciate you having us and bash 00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:53.500 them always good to hang out with you definitely 00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:56.630 bud All right, guys. Well, hey, thanks for sticking 00:53:56.630 --> 00:53:58.510 around with us. We know this was a little bit 00:53:58.510 --> 00:54:00.070 different than what we usually do here. A lot 00:54:00.070 --> 00:54:02.010 of good old word stories and a little bit of 00:54:02.010 --> 00:54:04.110 dog talk along the way. So thanks for joining 00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:05.769 us here on Semper Doggin. We know it's been a 00:54:05.769 --> 00:54:07.769 while since we've dropped a podcast. You know, 00:54:07.809 --> 00:54:09.949 life's been getting busy for Basham and I both. 00:54:10.090 --> 00:54:11.849 But, hey, we're still having fun doing this, 00:54:11.889 --> 00:54:13.070 and we said this from day one. It's going to 00:54:13.070 --> 00:54:15.590 be something that we do to have fun and something 00:54:15.590 --> 00:54:17.630 that we enjoy doing. So we hope you guys have 00:54:17.630 --> 00:54:19.389 enjoyed it with us. And, guys, I'm good if you're 00:54:19.389 --> 00:54:23.269 good. I'm good. Hey, thank you very much. All 00:54:23.269 --> 00:54:24.949 right, man. Thank you. All right. See you guys. 00:54:25.010 --> 00:54:25.829 We'll catch you on the next one.