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Canines are our passion.

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They are our addiction.

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They are our way of life right down to the very core and without them we would be lost.

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The canines of this world really are something to behold.

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They assist us at work, they accompany us at home, and they perform for us in the field.

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No matter where we go, they are by our side.

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Canines really are a ride or die, and for that we are grateful.

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This podcast will showcase working canines of various breeds and disciplines as we search

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for those canines and their handlers who are always striving to be the best at what they

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do.

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Those who are always grinding.

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Those who are always pushing the limits.

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Those who are always dogging.

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Join us on our adventures as it is sure to be a wild ride.

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I'm your host, Bryce Matthews.

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And I'm your co-host, Stephen Basham.

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And this, this is Semper Doggen.

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Welcome welcome welcome to another episode of the Semper Doggen podcast.

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Guys, I am your host Bryce Matthews and today we are joined by Mr. Stephen Basham on the

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other end of the microphone.

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How are you today, brother?

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I'm doing good.

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How about yourself, bud?

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Well, very busy, if you want the honest opinion.

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Yeah, no, you've got a plate full today, didn't you?

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Oh boy.

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I mean, went to work.

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It's come home from work, had to deliver meat for the meat business.

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We had some online orders this week, had to deliver that.

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Come home, ate a little dinner.

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It's eight o'clock now.

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Gonna record a podcast.

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I've got a goat in labor in the barn, so we're gonna have to deal with her as soon as we

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get out of this podcast.

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Still have not packed for Grand American, which I'm leaving at three in the morning

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for or not.

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Grand American, sorry, winter classic, leaving at three in the morning for that.

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So yeah, yeah, we're here.

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Good grief.

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And you still got to which take your stuff with you.

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We've talked about this 100 times.

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You're gonna show me how to edit so that maybe I can help you out with this.

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Yeah.

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Oh yeah, I forgot.

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I still have to edit this podcast when we get done.

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Are you going?

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Are you officially going or not?

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I would say 96% chance that I'll be there.

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All right.

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Good deal.

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There's still a 4% chance I won't be.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well, hey, tonight's episode is gonna be fun.

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We had a listener send us a message and requested that we cover the topic of show dogs.

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Said they had a young girl, one of their daughters getting ready to start showing dogs, showing

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some interest in it.

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And she wanted to know how she should go about picking a puppy, training the dog, taking

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the dog to some events and working all the way up to the top level of show dog.

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So I don't think you and I are qualified to do that.

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No, we're definitely not.

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And guys, this is going to be interesting because hopefully I can be the shit stirrer

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behind all this because our guest today is none other than Bryce's wife, Nikki.

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And having both of them on the podcast should be interesting.

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Well, we got her to sit down for us for a little bit.

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So darling, how are you tonight?

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Busy.

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Not for winter classic.

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So it's a busy night.

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It is a busy night.

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It is a very, very busy night.

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Well, like you said, Bachel and I are not qualified to talk about the topic of show

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dogs.

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So we did recruit Nikki to come in here, you know, her, her father, her sister.

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We've mentioned them several times.

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They've been raising show hounds for several generations and just thought we'd pick her

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brain tonight on what it would take.

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So darling, for the listeners, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background,

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kind of your upbringing, how your dad got into it and kind of where you are right now.

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And then we'll dive into the pups, the pups and taking them to the top level.

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Okay.

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I got started as a toddler, really going to the shows with my parents, my sister, my dad

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competed with red bones primarily and the bench shows and the night hunts.

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He got started hunting with his dad.

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His dad had got a couple of red dogs and took him hunting and it just kind of stuck.

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And we, that's how I grew up was a, about every weekend was at a coonhound event.

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So we've bred primarily red bones, but we've got some, got some other colors in there over

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the years and done a pretty, done a little bit of winning with the red dogs in the woods

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and in the show ring.

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So I was really stuck with that, but that's, that's the background there.

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Well give us, give us some insight on a couple very memorable hunts or shows or wins.

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Like what sticks out at the top for Wabash River Coonhounds?

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I can remember being about five years old kindergarten and the autumn oaks was in Logan

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sport Indiana, just about 20 minutes from us.

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And I remember playing under the bleachers in the dirt.

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And the thing I remember most about those hunts was our friend Steve Fielder.

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He did all the announcing for UKC back then and he always made it sound like such an event,

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such excitement.

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And I can remember being five years old and dad won autumn oaks with a dog named shadow,

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red bone male named shadow we had for a little while.

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And I mean, I can remember it like it was yesterday hearing Steve announced the winner.

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So yeah, I mean, that's a great memory.

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You got anything else that comes to mind?

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They shouldn't be hard bash them.

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Well, I mean, you have to give credit, you have to give her a little bit of leniency

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because I remember me and you were talking about this a little bit.

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And so when you talk about all the wins that they've had, what really sticks in my head

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is you remember when you were telling me about Curtis's basement or is it his basement where

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he has all his trophies?

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Yeah.

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He's got levels upon levels upon levels upon levels of just trophies.

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And you know, that's something that I even told you that I regret is, you know, I used

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to have so tired of dusting them.

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And so I gave them away to a youth, you know, a youth thing.

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But like I said, because man, they've done some winning.

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Yeah.

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And I was really trying to tear up for the world hunt three years ago where she met yours

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truly.

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You know, that should have been a memorable event.

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I set the ball on the tee, gave her a home run and swing and a miss.

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I remember thinking, man, this guy showed up with bash him.

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I don't know if I want to go to dinner with him.

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Hey, I mean, we only had one bed in the hotel room.

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He wasn't coming home with me.

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Yeah.

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Not the first time he pulled something over on me.

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At least it wasn't in the woods that time.

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Yeah, that was.

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Yeah, that was a good one.

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But no, another another thing that sticks out to my head whenever you talk about your

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legacy, Nikki, is and this is something that me and Bryce have talked about a couple of

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times.

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And I think that I wish I'm not in great KC.

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So it definitely wouldn't be me.

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But somebody I think needs to proposition them to recognize Curtis, you, your sister

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on that.

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How many autumn oaks in a row are we sitting at with your dad and you and your sister?

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I'm at 40, but that's got me beat.

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I'm not sure exactly where he's at.

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Bryce might know better.

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No, I don't.

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I know he's over 50 something, but that's consecutive autumn oaks.

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So I do believe he holds the unofficial record for consecutive.

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That's what I'm talking about, guys.

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Yeah, it's a big deal.

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We're talking about consecutive autumn oaks, guys.

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I mean, you got to understand that at one point in time when we're talking about Nikki

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and her sister, we've got a picture of Nikki and her sister in Stroller at the autumn oaks.

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So their heritage in the coon hunt world goes way back.

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Yep, it absolutely does.

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So all right.

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Well, that's enough about it.

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Like I said, I was just trying to set her up for a tee ball home run right there.

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And since we missed it, we'll get on.

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We'll get on with it.

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But darling, why don't you go through something?

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Let's start from the very beginning.

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Like I said, we had a customer or a listener that requested this.

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They want to know all the ins and outs.

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I don't skip anything.

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Break it down for a novice.

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If you've got a litter of puppies that are showbred, their parents are confirmationally

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correct.

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What are you looking for if you've got a litter of six puppies running around and you're

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going to pick out your very first show dog or your next show dog prospect?

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Like, let's start from the very beginning.

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Well, I think at the beginning, we're going to have to choose a breeder and a breed.

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So what breed interests you first of all, and then you're going to want to look at the

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breeders that are winning consistently.

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You're going to want to talk to those people, get to know them a little bit, find out about

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their breeding program.

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You choose your breeder.

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They've got a nice litter of puppies.

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So you go, you meet the puppies and the first thing you're going to notice is just who catches

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your eye, who's got some flash, some wow factor to them.

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So that's step one.

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You're going to want to pick the pup that's drawn to you.

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You're going to want to pick the puppy that's drawn to you because the more you bond with

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that pup, the better relationship you two have, the more work you're going to put into

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it, the more fun you're going to have, the further you're going to go.

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So I would say as equally as important as confirmation is, you got to have that bond

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with your puppy and submit factor goes a long way because when you walk in the ring, that's

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the first thing the judge is going to notice and they're going to pay attention to you

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the rest of the time you're in there.

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If that dog catches their attention, the first step into the ring.

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Yeah, go ahead.

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Now my question on that though, Nikki is, I mean, we're talking about a lot of these

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puppies are nine weeks old, 10 weeks old, eight weeks old whenever you're looking at

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them.

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You know, this always baffled me, especially, you know, I was never really big into the

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show world.

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My dad mainly just showed hunting dogs.

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You know, back in the day that used to be the thing, you know, hunting dogs showed to

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now not so much.

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But when I got around Mark and Tiff, you know, and watching them try to pick out puppies

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or look at puppies, it always baffled me like, what, how do you, how do you look at a puppy

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and decide whether or because puppies, correct me if I'm wrong, puppies go through stages

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where sometimes there'll be a high up on their feet.

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Other times they're flat footed.

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Sometimes they're a little bow legged and a lot of it could just be different stages

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of the puppy's life.

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Am I correct?

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You are correct.

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They're going to change a lot.

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So if you have the litter and you're looking at them at five weeks, six weeks each week,

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you may pick a different pup each time.

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Generally around eight weeks, if you set that puppy up, you look at its silhouette, you

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look at its angles, it's, that is what the puppy is going to come back to once it's a

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full grown adult is what your eight week old puppy is.

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As they grow, they, everything's going to grow at different rates.

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They're going to get all crazy looking.

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Their feet are going to go flat when they start losing their baby teeth.

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It's going to get a little wild there, but it almost always comes right back to what

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you had at eight weeks old.

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That's one thing I didn't know.

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I didn't realize, sorry, we're talking over each other glitch and I apologize guys.

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That's one thing that I didn't realize is whenever they start losing their puppy teeth,

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their body changes at that point in time.

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Nikki showed me that a couple of times and I did not know that.

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So had I not talked to somebody who's been in the show game for a while, I never would

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have known that.

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Yeah, I definitely didn't.

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You know, hearing that makes a lot of sense because, you know, for our listeners out there,

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just know that, you know, if you're looking at a puppy at 10, 12 weeks old and you're

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like, ah, that thing looks so amazing.

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You know, based on what Nikki just said, that may not be, you know, what that dog turns

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out to be.

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So it's kind of, it sounds like to me, it's a pretty tricky trying to pick the right puppy.

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Yeah.

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So, all right, Nikki, let's say we've got it narrowed down to two pups in this litter.

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You've got two that caught your eye.

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You've got two, they're bold acting.

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They're not backwards.

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They're looking good.

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As a puppy, what are you doing to nitpick and narrow down your selection between the

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final two choices?

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Well, I think you got to think about your goals.

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So Bryce and I just picked a puppy out of a litter not long ago here a couple of weeks

239
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:17,640
ago and really we had two puppies we really liked and really narrowed it down to what

240
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:18,920
our goal was.

241
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:28,760
So if your goal for that puppy is to keep the sound confirmation in your breeding program,

242
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,180
we would have went with one puppy.

243
00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:34,860
If our goal is to win as many bent shows as we can, we would have went with the other

244
00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:38,480
puppy just because it was a little flashier and it's going to get your attention when

245
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:39,480
you walk in.

246
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:46,320
They were both nicely built, but that was really the difference was our goal.

247
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,160
I think it's important to look far into that.

248
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,000
Look down the road and that's where Nikki does a good job of keeping me grounded is

249
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,480
like, hey, what's the end goal?

250
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,320
What are we doing down the road?

251
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,200
Not just right now.

252
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,600
And I just went through that this weekend.

253
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,280
We went up and picked our wheels pups.

254
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,360
We got a male and a female and you know, the dog, the male, especially the males, there

255
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,680
was only two.

256
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,600
The male that caught my eye was not the male that I ended up picking and it was different

257
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:20,600
for me.

258
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,880
Everybody's heard me talk on here that I love a blanket back solid dog.

259
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:26,880
That's my style.

260
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,360
I love the look of that dog.

261
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,840
There was one male blanket back solid, you know, solid coat, white feet.

262
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,560
Another male that was open spotted, you know, to me looks like a Holstein cow.

263
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,360
Doesn't resemble wheels in any way, shape or form.

264
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,080
And I was like going up there.

265
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,400
I was like, yeah, I'm going to, I'll pick that blanket back dog.

266
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,120
And we got up there and we started looking around and just, just watching their actions,

267
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,080
you know, and there, there wasn't much difference in them.

268
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,680
They were both good acting pups for sure.

269
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:58,600
But the one that was a little bit bolder, seemed a little more curious, a little more

270
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,640
by himself when you had all the pups out was the open spotted dog.

271
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,160
And so that was the time where her and I had a decision to make and we talked about it.

272
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,640
And I'm like, look, like my goal is to, you know, have something better than wheels.

273
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,880
You know, I'd love to duplicate him, but I like to have something better even more.

274
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,920
So I ended up picking the open spotted male and we'll see where it goes.

275
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,120
But that was an instance where she had to keep me on track and, and make sure we were

276
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,960
looking at the end game.

277
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:30,560
So with this next question, I'm kind of going to go down a rabbit hole, just a tad bit,

278
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,680
something a trait in, you know, like I said, the only people that I have that I know in

279
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,000
the really in the show world is you.

280
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,360
And then obviously Mark, Mark and Tiff and me and Mark and Tiff had talked about this

281
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,600
quite a few times and I would like your opinion on it.

282
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,360
You got into the breeding program and talking about the breeding program.

283
00:16:52,360 --> 00:17:01,120
One thing that you see a lot, a lot in the show dogs nowadays is the quirkiness, the

284
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,700
timidness.

285
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:10,560
What do you think that attributes to and as a breeding program, is that something that

286
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,160
you're looking, looking at?

287
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,440
Because a lot of your show dogs, I mean, I think you would know that you put them in

288
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,200
a vehicle and you've a lot of, a lot of people have to give their dogs medication to be able

289
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,600
to ride down the road.

290
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,880
And you know, for me, I was around hunting dogs all my life.

291
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,040
I mean, that's all out there.

292
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,260
You just throw them things in the freaking dog box and they're fine.

293
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:40,640
And so what's the difference between your big time show dogs and the hunting dogs?

294
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:51,720
I would say the quirkiness you're seeing is genetic and it's really attributed to breeders

295
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,640
not having their priorities where they need to be.

296
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,800
You know, breeders have an obligation to the breed to keep the soundness and the health

297
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,960
and welfare of the breed.

298
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:10,760
And I think that sometimes personality has been overlooked for other traits, maybe they'll

299
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:17,360
overlook that it's shy because it's got great feet and super color.

300
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:27,120
And I think that that's really where some breeders have probably failed to breed a little

301
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:28,680
where you're seeing that.

302
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:35,920
I don't think it is, it's not really attributed to how you raise them or socialization or

303
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,920
anything like that.

304
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:44,400
I would say it's a genetic thing that breeders have overlooked and probably needs to be something

305
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:50,160
that they focus more on because you know, excessive shyness, aggression, anything like

306
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,440
that's a disqualification.

307
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,420
So it's important that we follow that standard and that's why they have those things in there.

308
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:04,320
So you say it's a DQ, like how many times have you ever seen somebody actually be DQ'd

309
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,320
for one of those?

310
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,200
Because I've never seen it in the years that you and I have been together.

311
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:18,580
I have in the bench shows, not often, a handful of times probably I have seen in a confirmation

312
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:22,400
ring that they have excused a dog for it.

313
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,420
But in the bench shows you don't see it often, but it is certainly in the breed standard

314
00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:33,880
and it is the judge's obligation to do so if they feel that it is excessive.

315
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,200
Go ahead, Basham.

316
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,540
I got one time for you.

317
00:19:39,540 --> 00:19:46,820
It wasn't last year, was it, that your sister gave up the red bone for my daughter to show

318
00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:48,400
because Buddy was showing-

319
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,400
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

320
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,480
Year before at Autumn Oaks.

321
00:19:52,480 --> 00:20:01,860
Yeah, he was showing a very kind interest to a female that was in heat and he liked

322
00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:04,640
her a little too much.

323
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,560
Interesting.

324
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:16,880
So definitely Andy came to the rescue and let Jocelyn- but I would say that's one time

325
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,560
where you've seen a disqualification.

326
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:20,560
Yeah.

327
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,440
All right, Basham, I just want you to know you're cutting out on me just a little bit.

328
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,440
So guys, we apologize.

329
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,160
We're going to keep rolling though.

330
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,760
Nikki, we've got our putt picked out.

331
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:35,600
What's the next stages here in getting this dog ready to go to a show?

332
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,680
And let's take this line of events.

333
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,840
We're going to go to a local show and then we're going to go to a major event and then

334
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,920
we're going to go to a world class event such as the Nationals or the World Show.

335
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,560
So that's the line we're going to go.

336
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,000
So we've got our putt picked out, what are we doing next?

337
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,080
Well next we're training the putt.

338
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,400
So we're going to practice on the bench, we're going to practice on the ground, we're going

339
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,520
to practice on a lead, we're going to get them out and socialize them, take them to

340
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,120
your farm store, wherever pets are allowed, get them out, let people mess with them, let

341
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,080
people approach them.

342
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,240
You're going to want to practice showing people their bite.

343
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,760
You're going to have to open their mouth on the bench.

344
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,140
And then when you start thinking about bench show training, you're going to want to do

345
00:21:17,140 --> 00:21:18,460
short sessions.

346
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:22,280
This is a puppy, so it's just like working with a toddler, we don't have a long attention

347
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,280
span.

348
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,760
You're going to put them up there for maybe a minute and you're going to start by practicing

349
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,680
holding the head still.

350
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,320
If you don't get the head mastered, everything else is going to twist.

351
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,840
So you halfway square up their feet, get them used to standing square and holding that head.

352
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,060
That's going to be step one of our bench show training.

353
00:21:41,060 --> 00:21:45,560
Keep it short, praise them at the end and we're going to do it every day, just small

354
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,920
sessions and socializing that puppy.

355
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,560
All right, so we've got them socialized now.

356
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,360
We've worked on some steps.

357
00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:00,280
At what age can you start showing dogs?

358
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,840
Let's go with UKC standards.

359
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,160
Is there an age limit for a puppy class?

360
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,680
Yeah, puppy class is going to be six months to a year.

361
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240
So they've got to be six months old to enter their first show.

362
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,360
Some of the confirmation shows will have puppy classes, fun classes that are good to just

363
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:15,360
get them out.

364
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,960
As far as earning points, you got to be six months old.

365
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:25,640
If you are planning to take this puppy to the national level and win something, you

366
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,880
probably do not want to finish it out to champion as a six month old in the puppy class.

367
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,680
It's not going to be mature enough to compete with the more seasoned dogs at these bigger

368
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:37,960
events.

369
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:46,360
But the local events are maybe a good place to go learn, get some practice, but probably

370
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,760
not going to want to put a bunch of points on a six month old puppy.

371
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,640
Okay, let's back up here because I think this is something that we need to take a little

372
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,220
bit of time to cover.

373
00:22:57,220 --> 00:23:04,480
In the hunting world, you want to finish out a dog to grand night champion in UKC as quickly

374
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,920
as possible.

375
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,040
Like that's a goal, that's something that everybody wants to do.

376
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,640
How young can you make your dog a grand night champion?

377
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,680
In the show world, it is not.

378
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,200
We have a dog in the kennel now that's what pushing five years old and is still a champion.

379
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:27,400
Why are you guys not taking these dogs and finish them out as quick as possible?

380
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,000
I know you've explained to me a couple of times, but I know there's listeners who don't

381
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,360
understand the concept just like I didn't.

382
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,600
Well, this goes back to your goals.

383
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,520
So if your goal is just to have a show champion, take it as much as you want, put those points

384
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,520
on them.

385
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:51,240
If your goal is to win out of mox or the world, that dog is not going to be just muscle development,

386
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,360
body maturity, mental maturity to be able to handle a big crowd like that.

387
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,360
It's not going to be there till at least two years old.

388
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:05,320
So you don't want to finish this dog out so quickly that it can't compete in its class

389
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,800
with a more seasoned dog.

390
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,300
When you go to autumn oaks, it's going to be divided into three categories.

391
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:13,680
Your open dogs, your champions and your grand champions.

392
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:20,560
Obviously, you're going to have younger dogs in the open or registered class.

393
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,760
Then the next class ups the champion class, usually two to three years old.

394
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:31,360
And then grand champions four and up is generally what my goal is.

395
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:38,040
And you get to compete with that same dog over and over each year in a different category,

396
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,840
which then frees up.

397
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,480
If once your dog has moved up to champion, then your next up and comer can show in the

398
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,080
open class and you have an opportunity to show more than one dog.

399
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,080
Gotcha.

400
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,080
Okay.

401
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,200
So now we've got we've got our dog there six months old.

402
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,360
We're going to some shows.

403
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,720
Are we what are we expecting out of the pup at this point?

404
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Like I know whenever we're hunting, you know, we're trying not to put super high expectations

405
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,160
on very young dogs in the show world.

406
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,000
And I'm going to play devil's advocate.

407
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000
It's not that hard.

408
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Okay.

409
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,840
It's not that hard to stand on a bench and stand still.

410
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,920
Like I said, playing devil's advocate.

411
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,200
What what are you as somebody who is a handler?

412
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,560
Like what are you going to say?

413
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,720
That's like, no, there is a lot more that goes into it.

414
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:31,920
And here's what to expect at that age.

415
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:38,600
If you've done your homework at home and you've taken this dog out and you've socialized it,

416
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,480
I would expect that after the first time or two, we've went to a show that it's going

417
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,560
to perform for you just like it would at home, that it would be able to handle the crowd

418
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,200
after just a couple trips to town.

419
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,460
But again, that comes back with that selective breeding.

420
00:25:55,460 --> 00:26:00,520
You got to choose your you got to choose your puppy well, you choose your breeder well.

421
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,440
We don't want one that's going to be backwards and shy.

422
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:12,000
And it's it'll be more of a struggle for you in the long run.

423
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,640
That's me good.

424
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:23,200
So that kind of brings me to a point that I think you're that you're well aware of,

425
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,200
Nikki.

426
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:31,760
I know Angie Cable brought it up that she wish you Casey would go to a system to where

427
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:39,760
you could go show a dog at a show, but choose not to get points.

428
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,160
What does that help at all?

429
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,840
Is that just for experience or what?

430
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,480
Well, I think it would help certainly boost their numbers at the events.

431
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,040
And I completely agree with Angie.

432
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,040
I would love that.

433
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:59,240
I had seen worse people had commented several different suggestions on how to go about it.

434
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,240
I think it's a great idea.

435
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,920
I mean, it helps the clubs that boost the numbers.

436
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,120
It gets people out and doing it and it gets you more entries.

437
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,480
It gets your dog experience without having to put those points on them and having to

438
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,200
move them up in the bigger to a bigger category for the big shows.

439
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,440
I think it's a great idea.

440
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,600
All right.

441
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,120
So you Casey, there's your suggestion.

442
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,480
Be able to enter the bent shows without obtaining points.

443
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,480
I like it.

444
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,480
I'm here for it.

445
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,480
All right, Basher.

446
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,240
You got anything else for me?

447
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,400
Go on real quick.

448
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,540
So how does that work?

449
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:36,680
How does that work?

450
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,960
So let's just for devil's advocate, how would that work?

451
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Nikki?

452
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,320
Nikki, Bryce, myself, Colton, we're all in a show and we're showing against each other

453
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,680
and Colton wins, but Colton doesn't want the points.

454
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,680
Who gets the points?

455
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,680
Nobody?

456
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,680
I don't know.

457
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,400
There were several different proposals in the post I had seen and I don't know which

458
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,480
is the best way to go about it, but I definitely think that in the show dog world that people

459
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,320
would be interested in making a change so that you don't have to finish so quickly.

460
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,320
Okay.

461
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:18,280
I mean, I can, I can see where there's a lot of different variables to in things to consider

462
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,680
and you know, that's something I think you Casey does a good job of is they don't rush

463
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:22,680
into anything.

464
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,460
Now they take their time to think things through before they make some decisions.

465
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:28,880
So you know, it's on, it's on the table.

466
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,080
So Basher, you got anything else for you?

467
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,080
Move on.

468
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,080
No, I'm good.

469
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,080
All right, Nikki.

470
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,080
So we've got our dog there.

471
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,800
Let's, let's, let's go into their three years old now and they're a champion and you think

472
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:48,240
they're ready for a major event such as winter classic grand American autumn Oaks.

473
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,000
Is there anything at those major events that you're doing differently than what you would

474
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,420
have to local hunt or what's the atmosphere change due to a dog whenever there's way more

475
00:28:59,420 --> 00:29:03,920
people at a major event, way more going on, a lot more distractions.

476
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,820
So it's not really any difference for the dog.

477
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:07,200
The dog's going to do the same thing.

478
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,200
It's a dog.

479
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,940
He's going to do what he's trained to do.

480
00:29:09,940 --> 00:29:13,920
The difference is, is the handler ready for a bigger event?

481
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,760
So your handler is going to play a huge role.

482
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,680
Your handlers nerves are going to play a huge role.

483
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,840
Is your handler ready to show a dog in that big of a crowd?

484
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,480
Because if your handler's nervous, your dog's nervous and your dog that knows what, how

485
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,120
to do this is going to fall apart when it feels the nerves of those handlers.

486
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,760
So the question here is, is your handler ready?

487
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,640
Handler confidence will go very, very far.

488
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,720
If that handler walks in there with the mindset that they've got this, they're going to win

489
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,120
it, their dog will absolutely believe that.

490
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,180
And that's how their dog will perform.

491
00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:55,760
If they go in there with the mindset that they're nervous, everybody's looking at us,

492
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,500
oh my gosh, what's going on?

493
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:00,880
That's the same mindset the dog will have.

494
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,320
And you will see that confidence come out in your dog.

495
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,840
And it will make all the difference in the world.

496
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:12,960
And that's, that's where we talk about the wow factor and getting the judge's attention

497
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,440
with the first step.

498
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:20,400
You step into that ring, the confidence that that dog has, and that is primarily getting

499
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:28,080
from the handler is going to make all the difference right there at that level.

500
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Depending on that just a little bit, that kind of goes into all dogs.

501
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,000
Even whenever I was training bomb dogs in the Marine Corps, one thing they always taught

502
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:44,160
us was is if you're in a bad mood, it goes right down the leash to the dog.

503
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,340
If you're nervous, it goes right down the leash to the dog.

504
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:52,760
If you're excited, if you're whatever mood you're in, it goes right down the leash to

505
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:53,760
that dog.

506
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,560
So basically what you're portraying to the listeners is the same way in the show dog

507
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,240
world, you know, is the confidence.

508
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,960
The dog can feel it, it can see it, and it goes a long way even in the handlers.

509
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,960
It absolutely does.

510
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,800
It will just, we like to say it just travels down the leash, whatever you're feeling.

511
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:20,800
So if you can mask those emotions and go in there and feeling confident, it's going to

512
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,320
be to your benefit every time.

513
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:30,700
All right, so there's not a whole lot more that goes into anything bigger like the World

514
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:32,160
Hunt or the Nationals.

515
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,640
You know, it's another major event and we've done all this.

516
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Is there any fine tuning that you would do?

517
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,080
And the Coon Hounds, they don't require a ton of grooming or anything.

518
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,400
And in UKC, you're not supposed to, what's the term, do any like alterations or anything

519
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,400
like that.

520
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,120
But is there any fine tuning that you're doing before a major event just to give your dog

521
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,800
the absolute best edge that they can get?

522
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,040
Or, and let's even talk this, because I know you've told me this a couple times, the outfit

523
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,200
that the handler wears and how it's supposed to contrast with the dog so that the dog stands

524
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,200
out more than the handler.

525
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,880
Absolutely.

526
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,360
So we're going to have to give a shout out to our buddy Phil who taught all of us growing

527
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,240
up about this in the Coon Dog world.

528
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,080
You want your, you basically want to wear the opposite color of your dog.

529
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,600
If you have a dark colored dog, if you're showing a plot dog, you want to wear hot pink,

530
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,600
orange, something bright where you can see their silhouette against you.

531
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,920
If you're wearing black, their silhouette's going to fade right into you.

532
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,680
You're not going to get to see that pretty silhouette of the dog.

533
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,880
So that's always a good handler tip.

534
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,720
Where try to wear the opposite color.

535
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,720
All right.

536
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,360
Is there anything that you need to do to the dog?

537
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,480
You know, just last minute preps or anything?

538
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Is it just, it is what it is.

539
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,520
Coonhounds are pretty simple.

540
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,160
A bath, a nail trim, and you're good to go.

541
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,160
I like it.

542
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,160
I like simple.

543
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:06,440
Now something that's important that I learned is nail trim isn't just because you're talking

544
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,440
about the wicks in their toenails.

545
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,560
It's not just the day of.

546
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:19,040
Keeping them groomed all the time pushes that wick further and further back to where they

547
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,960
can have smaller toenails.

548
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:22,960
Correct.

549
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:23,960
Absolutely.

550
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,960
You can train that quick.

551
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,480
Um, most people use a Dremel.

552
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,520
You'll just Dremel up until it's shiny.

553
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,200
You'll see it start to shine.

554
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,760
And then as they walk on it, it'll push back further and it'll really train us to go back

555
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:41,080
and you can have those great little tiny nails they all want, but definitely doesn't start

556
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,080
day of show.

557
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,840
You got to do, do your homework.

558
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,080
All right.

559
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,600
So, so that got us all the way up to a major event.

560
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,080
Ashland, do you have anything else for removing?

561
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,200
I got a couple more topics I want to pick her brain on.

562
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,200
Yeah, just one.

563
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,080
I want to kind of go all the way back just because like for us, coon hunting, like the

564
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,840
hunting side, you know, you have different levels, you know, when you get to, when you

565
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,720
start with a puppy, you kind of start raw.

566
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,360
You're just letting them run loose, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

567
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,880
you know, once they're 14, 15 months old and they start showing a little spark, you don't

568
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:22,200
want to hunt them too hard because you could burn them out to a novice person who's getting

569
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,600
into training a show dog.

570
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:32,000
What does a week, a month, a year look like as far as training these dogs?

571
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,960
How often and how much is over training?

572
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,360
I would say do it every day, but you're doing it for a very short period of time.

573
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:47,160
You're going to start with just a couple of minutes and I probably even with a absolutely

574
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,920
seasons finished dog, the world champion, you're not going to spend more than 10 minutes

575
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,320
a day working on it.

576
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,320
Keep it brief.

577
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,280
You know, that's something that I'm sorry about it.

578
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,280
Go ahead.

579
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,280
Now, what about the gating?

580
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,920
Cause I know there's two different aspects.

581
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,040
There's two different aspects to your showing.

582
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:12,040
There's your groundwork and then there is your bench work.

583
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,920
How much time are you spending on that groundwork?

584
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,960
So groundwork is extremely important and everything we've talked about from picking your puppy,

585
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,140
you want to see a puppy move effortlessly.

586
00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:28,000
When you're watching them in the show ring, you want effortless movement.

587
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,920
You're going to keep in mind that we are breeding dogs with a job.

588
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,520
So these dogs are bred to be able to work all night long in different terrain in the

589
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,320
mountains, in the swamps, and they have got to be able to hold up.

590
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,880
So you don't want a lot of extra movement going on.

591
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,520
You want feet moving in a line effortlessly.

592
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,700
You don't want the top line bouncing up and down because that's going to wear a dog out.

593
00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:54,720
It's not going to be able to hold up as long to do its job in the woods.

594
00:35:54,720 --> 00:36:01,080
So it's extremely important as far as training that I use a simple snake chain.

595
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,200
It's mostly the noise, you just give it a little tug when they pull away from you and

596
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,920
that redirect, it works great for a coon hound.

597
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,720
A little touch redirect, coon hounds respond great to it.

598
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,080
But again, I don't spend very much time on it.

599
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:21,880
I spend a couple minutes, 10 minutes maybe at the most.

600
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,160
They pick up quickly.

601
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,820
It's pretty simple.

602
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:30,120
If you're trying to break a habit, you may have to work a little harder.

603
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,320
If they want to look at you, so if you are using bait or treats to teach them, a lot

604
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,920
of times they'll want to look up at you and then their body kind of twists while you're

605
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,920
moving.

606
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,620
So if you're trying to break that habit, you may have to put a little more work in.

607
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:50,920
You can use, if you go alongside of a building where they don't have a whole lot of room

608
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,320
to move and twist, you can kind of break some of those habits.

609
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,840
And as far as a handler, what I always tell the kids when we're practicing gating is you

610
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,520
want to move that dog in a straight line.

611
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,120
If you're weaving all over the place, it's very hard for the judge to tell how well your

612
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,440
dog moves from front to rear.

613
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,420
So I always tell the kids to pick a point somewhere and look at it so that you move

614
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:16,880
in a straight line.

615
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,280
Pick a point on the other side of the ring, one of the posts of the fence in the ring

616
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,320
or something that you can focus on that keeps you moving in a straight line.

617
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,960
As long as you're moving in a straight line, that dog should go right with you.

618
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:40,360
So how are you preparing these dogs, say, for the bigger crowds, for noise, for someone

619
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:46,720
at Automote, getting up on a bleach or dropping a chair?

620
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,520
Well my technique was I had seven kids.

621
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,120
You know what I'm talking about, crowd noise.

622
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,120
That was my technique.

623
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,280
I went ahead and had seven kids.

624
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,520
So mine are pretty well bomb proof at this point.

625
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,720
We always joke if they can survive Lydia, they can survive anything.

626
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:05,360
But lots of people, they'll play a TV in the kennel, play a radio, obviously taking them

627
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,200
out to the stores and stuff.

628
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,640
Just try to create those distractions in home or in public before you're at the event.

629
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,080
Try to, you know, so that it's not the first time they're hearing that.

630
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,680
But you know, give them to a kid too.

631
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,520
If, let a kid drag them around, play with them, roll around with them, wrestle them.

632
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:32,360
My kids have been the best pup trainers just because they're wild.

633
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,720
And if they can handle that, then nothing fazes them.

634
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:41,880
Alright so let's go into some some tricks of the trade.

635
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,520
And I don't think we're giving away any any secrets here.

636
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,640
But this like for a novice handler, one thing that I learned is you told me that like a

637
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:54,040
lot of times a dog will do the opposite of something.

638
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,080
And the best way I can say that is like if a dog is pushing back on you, what do you

639
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,080
do?

640
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,600
If a dog is leaning to the left, what do you do?

641
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,440
Like can you give somebody a pointer on on kind of how to get that dog in the most correct

642
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,400
position once they have them on the bench?

643
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,160
Yeah, so if you're stacking a dog on the bench or on the ground, you want it to be balanced.

644
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,960
You want the dog to be square and balanced.

645
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,880
You don't want him leaning back forward to one side or the other.

646
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,840
Sometimes if they're nervous, they'll try to lay on you, lean towards you.

647
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,880
And you just want to pull them the same direction they're leaning.

648
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,880
If they're leaning towards you, pull them towards you.

649
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,440
They will bounce back like a rubber band.

650
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,260
If your dog is pushing back leaning back on you, I usually just put a little pressure

651
00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:41,480
on the tail, pull back on the tail just enough till you can feel them pull against you and

652
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,280
let go and he will bounce back into a square balanced position.

653
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,280
That's very interesting to me.

654
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:52,320
Like whenever you were kind of teaching me how this worked, I had no idea that, you know,

655
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,920
I watch these people poke and pull and prod and adjust this and adjust that.

656
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,400
And I was like, why are they doing that?

657
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,760
So once you broke that down, it made sense.

658
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,040
And now I can understand that whenever I'm watching it.

659
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,780
Yeah, so the dog wants to be balanced.

660
00:40:06,780 --> 00:40:08,660
That's where it feels most secure.

661
00:40:08,660 --> 00:40:12,440
And if you're pulling it further that direction, it's going to feel like it's falling and it'll

662
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,400
bounce itself back.

663
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,280
All right, so we've done all this.

664
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,280
We've got to the top level.

665
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,280
We're there.

666
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,680
The handler is comfortable doing all this.

667
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,320
The progression of a handler.

668
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,320
Let's talk about that.

669
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,960
So, you know, obviously you have a novice handler who starts out and has to go to their

670
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,560
local shows to get their feet wet.

671
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:37,100
Then they go to some major shows after they are have been showing for I think the rules

672
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:41,520
like two or three years, then they're qualified to be a judge.

673
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,200
What's the process of getting your show judges license look like?

674
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,320
What do you have to do for that?

675
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,100
And like what else what else accompanies, you know, taking that next step in the show

676
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:54,440
world as a handler?

677
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,720
Well, as far as a judging license with UKC, it's a written test.

678
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:04,200
And then there are some apprenticeships you'll do under a seasoned judge.

679
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:10,800
And that's basically all there is to it.

680
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:16,360
I would say that it's something that should be taken more seriously.

681
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:26,000
The judges have an obligation to these breeds to follow the breed standards and keep the

682
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,320
integrity of each breed.

683
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,960
OK, I'm going to put you on the spot here for a second.

684
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,040
Let's just let's talk about the breed standards for the redbone coon hound.

685
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,160
You're a licensed judge.

686
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,120
You've judged several shows and major events.

687
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,320
What are the breed standards for a redbone so that somebody and I say I'm asking this

688
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,960
so that somebody can you can read it all day long on the paper what it says.

689
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,060
But like you have to interpret those words, right?

690
00:41:53,060 --> 00:41:59,140
How do like because you've explained it to me that the judge is looking at their interpretation

691
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:01,680
of the breed standards.

692
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,640
They are the breed standard will break down each part of the dog from its head to its

693
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,200
front legs, its chest, its back, its feet.

694
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,080
It'll break it down and tell you exactly what you're looking for.

695
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:20,000
But the most important piece is that you have overall balance.

696
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,000
You got it.

697
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,680
You can have all of these pieces, but they have to be able to work together because what

698
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,320
the number one thing we're keeping in mind is this is a dog that has a job.

699
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,680
Its job is to get through the woods, tree raccoons, be able to last all night, be able

700
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,720
to go through different terrain.

701
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,600
That's our end goal here with these particular breeds.

702
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,760
So most important is that all of these pieces fit together, that they are balanced, that

703
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,520
they work together.

704
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,940
And you're going to pick that out on the ground first.

705
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:56,180
You're going to see a dog that everything is in motion together.

706
00:42:56,180 --> 00:42:57,180
Everything is in sync.

707
00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:58,180
Everything is working together.

708
00:42:58,180 --> 00:43:01,480
Everything looks effortless.

709
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:08,080
And then you can break down the nitpicky from there.

710
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:13,200
And the things that are in the breed standard are there for a reason.

711
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,560
You talk about ear roll with the red bones.

712
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,600
They're supposed to have a moderate to low ear set that rolls forward.

713
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,980
They roll forward to hold the scent there at their nose.

714
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:28,560
It talks about the length of their nose and the width, and that is so that they can gather

715
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,380
the scent properly.

716
00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:35,520
You talk about being cat footed, and that's so that they can get through the different

717
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,520
terrain.

718
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:45,020
They talk about the pastures being shock absorbers so that you're not wore out when you're climbing

719
00:43:45,020 --> 00:43:50,520
mountains and you're swimming and chasing raccoons all night long.

720
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,440
So these things are in place for a reason.

721
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,360
The things that are in the breed standard.

722
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:02,160
But I would say the most important thing is overall balance of a dog.

723
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:10,540
Now being the kind of crapster that I am, the difference between AKC and UKC as far

724
00:44:10,540 --> 00:44:14,600
as that goes, now AKC goes a little bit more in depth with their judges.

725
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,200
They have to actually go to classes and stuff like that, correct?

726
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,200
Not in the Coonhound department.

727
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,600
For the Coonhound bent shows it's very similar, but for the all breed events, yes, there is

728
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,880
a much more in depth process.

729
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,520
They have to have a mentor for each breed.

730
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,000
So they will get their judging license one breed at a time, and they'll have to do a

731
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,520
certain amount of mentorship under each individual breed.

732
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:39,520
Oh, gotcha.

733
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:40,520
Okay.

734
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,280
Yeah, I didn't realize that.

735
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,280
That's pretty interesting.

736
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,280
So, all right.

737
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,280
So we've covered a lot of things.

738
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:53,120
One other thing that I want to talk about though, is I get a kick out of this all the

739
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,280
time, the ethics in the show world.

740
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,680
You know, there's, and this is what I tell Nicky all the time is that this is the hardest

741
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,600
thing as me, for me as a hunter to wrap my heads around.

742
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,240
When I go to the woods in a night hunt, there is a set of rules that is black and white.

743
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:17,020
You have things that are scored and judged on, and there is a voting process if there

744
00:45:17,020 --> 00:45:24,800
is a disagreement in the show world, you are paying for somebody's opinion.

745
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,960
Can that opinion be swayed?

746
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,500
Absolutely.

747
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:34,320
There are times where, and you know, UKC even did a whole podcast on the ethics of showing

748
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:35,840
coonhounds.

749
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,300
So Nicky, let's, let's walk it through, like give me an instance where you would not enter

750
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:49,080
a show due to ethical reasons.

751
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,520
Well as we all know, I don't buy it.

752
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:54,880
I'm not buying it.

753
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,840
I just don't think there's that much going on behind the scenes.

754
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:05,560
If I'm not entering a show, it's probably because I've already showed to that judge

755
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,600
and I know that they don't like my dog.

756
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:16,000
It is not because I feel like there's something shady going on behind the scenes 95% of the

757
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,180
time, but it is a hot topic.

758
00:46:19,180 --> 00:46:20,180
It is a hot topic.

759
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:24,320
Scroll through your Facebook feed and you will see what a hot topic it is.

760
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,760
Okay, but aren't there times when like you're not supposed to show to somebody?

761
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,240
Yeah, I'm not going to show.

762
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:31,240
That's what I'm saying.

763
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:32,240
Like answer that question.

764
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:33,240
Sorry.

765
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,240
Like that's what I'm trying to get to.

766
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:37,440
So if I coon a dog with somebody, I'm not going to show to my sister.

767
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,520
I'm not going to show to my best friend.

768
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:47,320
I'm super close with, I'm not going to show to the dog's breeder.

769
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,240
That's pretty much it.

770
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:55,520
And you're doing that for ethical reasons because the, that person could have an emotional

771
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,840
attachment to you, which would cause him to pick the dog correctly.

772
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:00,840
Yes.

773
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:08,720
Because kennel blindness is real and I think more so than them doing it because they really

774
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:14,380
like you or whatever the reason.

775
00:47:14,380 --> 00:47:16,840
Everybody wants to think their dog is the best.

776
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,440
And if they're the breeder on that dog, they already think it's better than the other dogs.

777
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:32,000
So I feel like it's more of a subconscious choice that you have an advantage then, then

778
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,720
a malicious choice.

779
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:39,280
I mean, we can make a whole soap opera off the show dog world.

780
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,960
I mean, we all know that if you watch Facebook whatsoever after a show, I mean, it's like

781
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,480
a, it's like a huge soap opera.

782
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,480
You could.

783
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,280
And I've been, you know,

784
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,960
I just wish they'd put the whole info out there instead of the, I'm not going to name

785
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:01,080
any names, but name them.

786
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,360
Oh gosh.

787
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,640
Just like, you know, here's something that I don't understand.

788
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,440
And we're going to go off a little tangent here and just have a little fun because these

789
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:15,400
are mystics and mysteries of the show dog world that I don't understand is like, why

790
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,680
announce the judge before the event?

791
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:19,680
Oh man.

792
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,680
This was a hot.

793
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:30,680
So in case, in case people didn't, don't have Bryce on Facebook or don't have Nikki on Facebook,

794
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:37,640
there was a fun topic where I don't remember if Bryce brought it up or if he just commented

795
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:45,160
under somebody's post and him and Nikki went at it talking about this exact subject.

796
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:53,320
So I am, I am ecstatic to get this on podcasts and to hear these two, a difference of opinion

797
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:54,320
on this subject.

798
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,160
We do have a difference of opinion.

799
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,640
So I'll go first.

800
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:58,640
Okay.

801
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:04,480
So, you know, you talk about ethics and morals in the show dog world and how convenient is

802
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:10,260
it that, you know, a lot of times the person putting on the show at a local event gets

803
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:13,120
to pick the judge and who it's going to be.

804
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,840
And you know what, that judge just so happens to think that that person who hired them to

805
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,080
be the judge for that day, they think that the person, you know, their dog is the best

806
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,080
dog.

807
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:28,920
Man, what a coincidence, you know, man, let's listen to the tone in his voice.

808
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,600
It rubs me so wrong.

809
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,800
You know, what a coincidence that is, you know, you've got a dog who has won all over

810
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,060
the country and can't win a local show.

811
00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:43,040
I find that hard to believe, you know, what is the odds that you've got a dog?

812
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:51,560
A judge who rides with a competitor to an event because the weather is terrible.

813
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:52,560
And guess what?

814
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:53,560
Guess what dog ends up winning.

815
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,080
You can probably already guess it.

816
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,720
It's the dog who the judge rode with.

817
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:03,240
Why is the judge announced before Steve Sloat?

818
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,060
Why is the judge announced before the event?

819
00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:09,640
You don't know what dogs you're going to draw in the woods on the hunting side before you

820
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,640
go.

821
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:16,920
If I knew that I was going to draw, you know, Buddy and I was going to draw, let's who's

822
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:24,160
hot right now, Clyde and I'm going to draw Crash before I go to Mississippi.

823
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,320
I'm not driving nine hours to go draw them dogs.

824
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,320
I ain't doing it.

825
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:34,760
If I know that the cards are stacked against me, you don't know until you get there.

826
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,760
So that's my rant.

827
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,100
Nikki, you can chime in if you feel like it, but I don't, I don't like knowing the judge

828
00:50:40,100 --> 00:50:41,320
before the dag on event.

829
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,880
I think we have to know the judge.

830
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,840
It's going to make your life a whole lot easier.

831
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:51,840
If I know the judge, I can tell you that because if I don't know the judge, how do I know what

832
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:53,600
dog I want to take?

833
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,640
You're driving to Mississippi with 10 dogs because I don't know which dog I'm going to

834
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,760
show because I don't know who the judge is.

835
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:07,200
Bryce is walking 10 dogs at the rest stop because he don't want to know the judge.

836
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,460
She just put it in terms that you could solely understand, but I could, but here's the other

837
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:13,880
thing that cracks me up.

838
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:18,960
You know, they'll announce the judges for winter classic or for autumn oaks six months

839
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:24,240
in advance and by golly, you've got every person who's ever held a show lead or is going

840
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:25,240
to be at that event.

841
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:26,240
Oh, congratulations.

842
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:27,240
Congratulations.

843
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,100
Great picks, fantastic picks.

844
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:36,200
When you know two weeks ago, they was running that person's name in the mud.

845
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,200
Now Bryce Matthews.

846
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,200
Yes.

847
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,200
Is that a true statement?

848
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,200
Yes.

849
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,200
Look at Facebook.

850
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:48,960
Have I congratulated somebody that I would not have congratulated had they not been judging?

851
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,640
No, you haven't.

852
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,440
But I'm saying we're talking show dogs in general.

853
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,280
We all know that Nikki is opinionated and if she doesn't like your dog or like you, you're

854
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:59,280
going to know it.

855
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,280
We know that.

856
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,640
Oh, we all know the Indiana State hunt last year.

857
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:04,640
You know?

858
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:05,640
Yeah.

859
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,480
She shut down a whole room or the year before that.

860
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:10,480
That was at the hunt, not the show.

861
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,520
But the point that I'm getting at is it's just funny how people are so eager to suck

862
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,520
up to whoever the judge is going to be.

863
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,000
It drives me insane.

864
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,160
I mean, the judge does have to have some integrity.

865
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:28,200
There's their butt kissers in every crowd and they certainly do come out of the woodwork

866
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,160
when you're the one getting to pick the top dog.

867
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,120
But the judge has just got to have some integrity.

868
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,040
Are there judges that don't have integrity?

869
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,200
Have you seen it firsthand?

870
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,160
I would say there's a few, but not nearly as many as it's made out to be.

871
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:50,220
Are there people who will go above and beyond to give their dog the best opportunity possible

872
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:54,480
to win that event that day?

873
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:00,720
By the best opportunity, do you mean conditioning, nutrition, and a great handler?

874
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:07,080
I mean, B-U-Y, the opportunity.

875
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,680
Here's a problem that I see though.

876
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,880
You can call it what it is.

877
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,520
You can call it naive.

878
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,260
You can call it not being educated.

879
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:17,580
You can call it whatever you want.

880
00:53:17,580 --> 00:53:19,220
But I'll give you an example.

881
00:53:19,220 --> 00:53:26,440
Say Bryce Matthews goes to the Indiana State Hunt and you pick a dog to win.

882
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,760
Right?

883
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:37,680
Everybody that didn't win accuses Bryce Matthews of, oh, he picked a dog that's flat on its

884
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:46,960
feet or a dog that's high in the rear or a dog that has acne or this or that or the other.

885
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:54,280
When in Bryce's eyes, that just might be what he thought was the best dog.

886
00:53:54,280 --> 00:54:01,120
So then you get a lot of people who want to discredit and say that the dog that he picked

887
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:08,400
bought that win when in reality, it was just that's the dog you thought was the best.

888
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,840
You'll hear that when a dog's winning a lot.

889
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,000
Dog is winning consistently, winning big events.

890
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,940
The rumors are going to start.

891
00:54:16,940 --> 00:54:18,420
Why is that dog winning?

892
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:20,100
Or why is that person winning?

893
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:26,680
If a handler is winning consistently in their breed year after year after year, rumors are

894
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:27,680
going to start.

895
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,960
But I would say more often than not, that handler and breeder are winning consistently

896
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,880
because they have put in the work to develop a good line of dogs.

897
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:37,880
They've done their homework.

898
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:42,360
They've got their dog ready and they're winning consistently because they've got a good dog

899
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,360
and a good breeding program.

900
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,920
But doesn't mean the rumors aren't going to fly.

901
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,280
Okay.

902
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:49,280
So I just thought of something.

903
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,280
This is genius.

904
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,040
The rumor mills so fun though.

905
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,400
It's so fun.

906
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,680
This is genius, Basham.

907
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:55,760
Nikki, we're going to.

908
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,580
I feel like we should all just be grateful we don't have blue ticks because the blue

909
00:55:00,580 --> 00:55:03,600
tick world is crazy right now.

910
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,040
There is some drama in the blue tick world.

911
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,600
Oh, have you seen the blue tick association?

912
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,600
It's wild.

913
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:09,600
Oh no.

914
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:10,600
Oh man.

915
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:11,600
Yeah.

916
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:12,600
Okay.

917
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:13,600
So I got a genius idea.

918
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,360
You couldn't do this at local hunts, but the major events, Nationals, World, and World

919
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,680
Winter Classic.

920
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:34,120
I think that whoever the judge is should have to explain their pick based upon the breed

921
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:40,080
standards in a microphone to the crowd and the people who are there for everybody to

922
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,080
hear.

923
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,920
They need to take that dog and break down the breed standards and say, this is why this

924
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,760
dog is the best dog in this lineup.

925
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,880
That way everybody knows what the judge picked.

926
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,480
And then that statement can be compared to the breed standards.

927
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:58,480
I agree.

928
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,440
And that standard in most types of livestock judging, most of the time your judge gives

929
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,120
a brief reasoning of why they went with that dog or that livestock.

930
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,720
And we went to a bent show Saturday.

931
00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:12,720
An all breed show.

932
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:13,720
Yeah.

933
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:17,760
I went to an all breed show, but I judged the coon hound bent show and the female class

934
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:18,760
was very close.

935
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,040
One dog was far better on the ground.

936
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,440
One dog was far better on the bench.

937
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,640
And I explained to the exhibitors, I'm going with this dog because it has the best balance

938
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,600
of both.

939
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,520
I think that should be standard practice.

940
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:30,760
I think it makes a lot of sense.

941
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:31,760
Yeah, I did too.

942
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,920
Cause there's a lot of events where you show up and they pick it and everybody just starts

943
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:41,000
hooping and hollering and screaming at the top of their lungs, just making a scene.

944
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:46,000
And you don't even know why the judge picked it because I could have it.

945
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:52,360
I sitting in the crowd could have an opinion on the two dogs or the set of dogs that are

946
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,520
being judged for the very final round.

947
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,720
And I'm like, okay, I think it should go with this dog for this reason.

948
00:56:57,720 --> 00:57:02,080
But the judge doesn't give an explanation and you never know why that judge or why that

949
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,280
dog got picked.

950
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:10,520
Now this is going to sound biased just because I was in it.

951
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:17,560
But one of the best explanations, one of the best examples of what you're talking about

952
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,520
is when Andy judged the Duelz at Automobiles.

953
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:32,120
And if you go back and listen to her talking about each dog and the way she explains what

954
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:39,840
she was looking for, what each dog did and why the winner won, I think that's the best

955
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,560
explanation for me of what you're talking about.

956
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,600
Nikki, is that something that used to happen back in the day?

957
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,800
Like, you know, that's Andy's your sister for the people who don't know.

958
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,840
And you and her both, when you guys are judging shows, you both go through and you give an

959
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,840
explanation.

960
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,060
You guys do that.

961
00:57:57,060 --> 00:58:00,200
Is that because that is what Curtis taught you guys to do?

962
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,200
This is the standard?

963
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,840
This is why you need to do this?

964
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:09,120
Or is that something like why do you guys do it and others don't?

965
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:10,400
Not necessarily.

966
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,720
I think it's just some judges do.

967
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,400
I don't know that that ratio has changed over the years, the amount that do and don't.

968
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,100
But I always appreciate it when a judge does.

969
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:22,960
I like that feedback.

970
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:29,840
Oftentimes, as a judge, people will come up to you and say, after the show, why didn't

971
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,360
my dog win?

972
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:32,520
What could I do different?

973
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,840
What didn't you like about my dog?

974
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:40,860
So it's helpful just to give a little explanation what the dog that you chose, what advantages

975
00:58:40,860 --> 00:58:42,440
it really had.

976
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,000
Yeah, I like it.

977
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,900
Now, why is it?

978
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:56,400
And I've always been curious because I think that a lot of shows could follow Grand American's

979
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:00,720
setup in that they use a panel to determine their winner.

980
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,320
Why don't more shows do that?

981
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:09,240
Well, you just opened up a can of worms, buddy.

982
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:15,560
You just opened up a can of worms because the dog who is picked as a number one by multiple

983
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,120
judges might not win.

984
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:18,880
They just might not.

985
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:27,740
I'm not sure that the process with Grand American panel is not a bad idea.

986
00:59:27,740 --> 00:59:29,600
But they decided to get a little extra with it.

987
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,320
I guess the Grand American and they made it complicated.

988
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:33,880
I don't know.

989
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,040
See, I don't know the process.

990
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,960
So I guess that's me being naive.

991
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:47,280
I guess I just mean I could see where it would benefit to have a panel versus one person's

992
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:48,280
opinion.

993
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:49,280
It is.

994
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,880
And a lot of the aside from Autumn Oaks in the world, a lot of the bigger events have

995
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:55,600
gone to that.

996
00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:00,920
This weekend, when we see the top 10 overall judging, it'll be a panel.

997
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,400
There'll be three people on the panel for that this weekend.

998
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,620
And most of the Breed Days do a panel.

999
01:00:06,620 --> 01:00:10,200
So a lot of the bigger events have gone to that.

1000
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,960
I mean, there's pros and cons to it.

1001
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:20,040
I don't really feel strongly about it, but I don't love if we're going to do a panel,

1002
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,280
let's let them pick individually.

1003
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,400
I don't love when they discuss it.

1004
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:24,400
Yeah.

1005
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,020
So like, and by golly, we're here.

1006
01:00:27,020 --> 01:00:29,640
Let's just go ahead and dive into the Grand American deal.

1007
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,280
Like, why?

1008
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,960
What happened this year that you don't like?

1009
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,200
I'm just being, hey, we're here.

1010
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,720
They came up a few years ago with some complicated point system.

1011
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,960
So each judge kind of ranks the dogs one, two, three, four.

1012
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:50,280
I don't know how many dogs they had in their finals, but they rank the dogs and each position

1013
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,920
is worth so many points.

1014
01:00:52,920 --> 01:01:00,600
And if, you know, this judge gives this one a one, this one gives this one a one, but

1015
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:06,480
the same dog gets all the number twos, your number two ends up with more points and he

1016
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:11,440
was nobody's best pick in some instances.

1017
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,080
So I mean, we probably need to just keep it simple.

1018
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,420
I don't hate the panel, but let's not complicate it.

1019
01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:20,720
And like she said, don't be talking about it.

1020
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:27,680
Like the panel, stay quiet, write your number down and go put it, go hand it to the announcer.

1021
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,000
Don't be communicating.

1022
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,600
That's where I get frustrated and I don't even have a dog in the fight.

1023
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:36,080
I just had a thought.

1024
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,920
Oh boy.

1025
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,420
Oh yeah.

1026
01:01:40,420 --> 01:01:48,280
What if we did the bench shows like a night hunt and you entered, say you get three judges,

1027
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:49,280
right?

1028
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,520
You enter dogs and you put them in, say a cast.

1029
01:01:53,520 --> 01:02:05,040
So say you got 20 champion males or show against each other random for four and four and you

1030
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,920
pick out one in each one.

1031
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:08,920
Elimination style.

1032
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,840
No, who you're showing against.

1033
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:16,600
You don't know who you're showing against the first, the first four might be the best

1034
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:22,920
four in the whole group, but they might have show against each other in group number one.

1035
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:28,800
And then the judges just be random pick from the three.

1036
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,280
Could be, could be kind of how your cuts work.

1037
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:36,560
If you have a big class, it's random, but, and, and there's no, once you get to champions

1038
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,920
and grants, if you have a big class, yeah, once you get to champions and grants, you

1039
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,560
can do it that way because there's no points in it for the dog until you get to the final

1040
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:48,920
round, so it'd work out for the champions and grants.

1041
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,480
But I mean, that way you wouldn't even know who your judge, like, and I'm just talking

1042
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:58,200
about your bigger ones, you know, you wouldn't even know who your judge is.

1043
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,680
You know, it's between one of the three, but you don't know exactly who the judge would

1044
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,160
be.

1045
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,160
I like that.

1046
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:09,760
I don't know if I love it.

1047
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:10,760
Okay.

1048
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:11,760
All right.

1049
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,040
Well, Hey, this has been fun.

1050
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:19,200
I really have enjoyed this one and I hope that, you know, our listener who requested

1051
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:24,360
as get a show person on here was able to gain some valuable information.

1052
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,880
This has been fun and darling, thank you for joining us tonight.

1053
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,840
I know it's not really your cup of tea, but we appreciate you.

1054
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,320
Anytime.

1055
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,680
I think maybe even a caveat to this.

1056
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:42,600
Once life settles down for you, if it ever does, and maybe putting together a small little

1057
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:48,760
series or, you know, a video series to where, you know, you know, Nikki talks about, you

1058
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,800
know, five or 10 minutes, you know, and taking a puppy five or 10 minutes, you know, and

1059
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:59,120
showing it at the beginning and then taking a younger, you know, maybe a 14, 15 month

1060
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:05,640
old dog and showing, you know, a clip of five or 10 minutes, you know, just to kind of give

1061
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:13,000
because I think you're right in the fact of worse, so me and you are so in tuned with

1062
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:20,200
the hunting side, whether it be coyote hunting, bear hunting, hunting dog, turning dog loose,

1063
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:26,240
letting it go that the show side kind of does get pushed under the table.

1064
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:31,800
But here at Simper Dog and we are all about everything that deals with the dogs from the

1065
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:37,080
dogs in your laps to the dogs that we work with and I think that maybe that's something

1066
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,080
that we could highlight.

1067
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,080
Yeah.

1068
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:40,080
Yeah.

1069
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,720
Like you said, if life ever slows down, but that's what I was just looking at the time,

1070
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:43,720
buddy.

1071
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,160
We've been on here for over an hour and I got that goat in the barn, like getting ready

1072
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:47,160
to have baby.

1073
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,120
So I'm going to have to get off here and get out of there.

1074
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,120
Nikki and I, we both still got to pack winter classic tomorrow.

1075
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,800
So Basher, thanks for joining us, buddy.

1076
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,080
Hey, no problem.

1077
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,240
It's been a, it's, it's actually been entertaining.

1078
01:04:58,240 --> 01:04:59,240
It has.

1079
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,720
Nikki, you have anything to say before we sign off here?

1080
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,360
I think we covered it.

1081
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:10,800
Maybe like you're married to the best guy in the world or I think we covered it.

1082
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,200
Well teeter up man.

1083
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,720
She shot you down at every, I mean you giving her two home run chances.

1084
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:19,760
So we're going to miss.

1085
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,720
So wait, this is what I live with.

1086
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:23,720
All right guys.

1087
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,440
Well, thanks for joining us here on Simper Dog and we appreciate you guys sticking with

1088
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:27,440
us.

1089
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,400
I know tonight was a little choppy just because Basher and I don't know this topic super well

1090
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:36,520
and trying to break it down into layman's terms, trying to bring a profession now onto

1091
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,760
the podcast here.

1092
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:42,320
You know, Bryce, how warm is that barn?

1093
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,360
Not very.

1094
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:48,000
You better get a couple of comforters because the way she's looking at you, that's where

1095
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,000
you're sleeping.

1096
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,040
And I got plenty of straw.

1097
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:52,040
I'm good to go.

1098
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,000
I'll just curl up like one of the goats.

1099
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,000
No problem.

1100
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,960
So, all right guys, well, we appreciate you guys bashing.

1101
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,360
I'm going to sign off here and we're going to get this thing out and get out here for

1102
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,360
these listeners and thank you guys for joining us.

1103
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,360
All right.

1104
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,360
You all take care.

1105
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:29,280
I'll see you guys next time.