Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where
before and after school educators, summer camp
and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they
are seen, heard and valued. I'm your host, Jamie
Wankler, and I'm so excited you're here. and
welcome back to the Forgotten ECE. I am so excited
today because joining us is Dr. Yarden Kadar,
a developmental psychologist whose work spans
language acquisition, cognitive development,
socio -emotional growth, and educational innovation.
Dr. Kadar holds a PhD in developmental psychology
from Cornell University and has advised government
agencies, educational media, and non -profits
on early literacy and children's development.
His research explores how children learn language
across cultures, how they navigate gestures,
facial expressions, and social cues, and how
identity and emotion shape learning. He also
works in the ed tech space, helping create joyful
and curious early learning experiences using
AI and social robotics. How cool. In addition
to his research and innovation work, Dr. Kadar
consults with child care officials and kindergarten
programs in Israel and the UK, and he brings
a global perspective on what children need to
feel safe and seen. Today, we dive into one of
his most personal and powerful topics, the social
-emotional journey of bilingual children, inspired
in part by the experiences of his own daughters
as Hebrew -English bilingual learners in the
United States. Thank you so much for being here,
Dr. Yardin. It's such a pleasure to have you.
Thank you, Jamie. Thank you for the introduction.
Happy to be here. Beautiful. So, why don't you
start by telling us about your daughter's early
experiences as Hebrew, English, bilingual children
in the United States. Right, so this takes us
back quite a while. I mean, more than 20 years
ago. Okay. When my wife and I, we came from Israel
to Cornell University, Ithaca, New York. Beautiful
place. And we went there because I started my
PhD program. or actually my MA and Master's and
PhD combined. We came as a young couple, 2001,
and then two years later, as I was struggling
with my studies and getting my research done,
our first child was born, Kaya, and then three
years later, second daughter, Talia, was born.
So both are proud. So two of my daughters, I
have three daughters, two of them were born in
the States. And we, that time we stayed until
2007. So when we came back, when we went back
to Israel, Gaia, my eldest, was four and more
than four years old. And Talia was one year old.
And then especially Gaia was, of course, a bilingual
speaker, maybe even a better English speaker
than the Hebrew speaker because she went to daycare,
you know, and she was immersed in English the
whole day. But at least 50 -50. So she had a
perfect accent, perfect American accent. And
she was also speaking Hebrew at home. So as I
was doing my research on actually my... PhD research
was on monolingual children and infants. But
at the same time, of course, if you're curious
about language and you care about your own daughter,
of course, then it's hard to miss, right? The
amazing ability of young children to acquire
two languages and actually many more. Wow. And
you did all of that while not only studying your
master's and your doctorate, but then moving
from Israel to U .S. and then U .S. back to Israel.
Exactly. Right. No big deal, though, right? That's
incredible. So that's kind of where this journey
started. And then what stood out to you in those
first few months of English exposure, whether
it's socially, emotionally or linguistically?
So I was looking at Gaia, my own daughter, but
also, you know, we met quite a few other Israeli
families who also came to Cornell to study and
work. And not only Israelis, other people from
all kinds of places around the world. Ithaca
is, of course, an international college town,
so you get to meet people from all around the
world. And, you know, there's no special place,
of course, for bilingual children. They just
go into a normal English -speaking daycare. And
this was, you know, on one hand, it's an amazing
thing to see. On the other hand... It's not an
easy process, you know, and this is what many
people kind of miss. So they say, oh, wow, language
is so easy for children. They just get it like
that, you know, easy, which is true. It's true.
I mean, look at us. Try learning Japanese today.
What's going to happen? Yeah, well, I still try
to learn French, OK? So we all know this kind
of frustrating feeling when we're trying to,
I don't know if you're doing Duolingo or whatever.
Absolutely. We just know, right? You don't have
to be a language expert in order to see the huge
difference between a child and an adult. And
the older you get, the harder it gets to learn
another language. So on one hand, people are...
are right when they say that it's easy for children
to acquire a language but still it's not a matter
of one day or two days it's still a process of
a few months at least and it's not only about
language of course right because it's not only
like us you're an adult trying to learn a language
you have your life and at the same time you're
trying to learn a language but for these children
you're suddenly in a new environment not only
linguistically but culturally and in every other
respect. And that's a big challenge. So I have
a friend, a good Israeli friend. They actually
stayed in Ithaca. They're still in Ithaca for
many years now. But we always remember those
first days when his daughter went into this American,
very friendly, of course, but for her, foreign
and kind of Breton -y new place, English -speaking.
And this girl, who today is a very smiley person
and happy person, but at that time, she just
cried and cried. Not one morning, not two, not
for a week, but for weeks. She just cried. That's
all she did. And I remember looking at him outside,
you know, not sure what to do. So hard, so hard
for both the child and the parent. So this, going
back to your question, I think, This is something
that not enough people, including professionals,
are aware about. Okay, yeah, sure, we know that,
you know, there's this saying, it's all going
to be okay by Christmas, right? Because they
start like late August. Don't worry. And usually
they're right. I mean, of course, it's not like...
that this Israeli or, I don't know, Brazilian
child who came to the US or to Canada will be,
you know, master of English after three months.
But what we want to see is that they are able
to understand simple sentences and then slowly
kind of utter their own, you know, words and
sentences. So usually, yes, this is what happens.
But, you know, still there are four, five, six,
seven tough, Yeah, you know what? This speaks
to my heart. As an educator in the system, we
had a child start last year who moved from Japan
and literally all she ever spoke was Japanese.
And trying to help her not even just understand
the English that we're speaking, but that she's
in a safe place and that it's okay was hard enough.
And you're right, it was. It was literally months
of crying. And then you feel bad for the educator,
you feel bad for the parents. and trying to also
there's that that language barrier with the families
and you're trying to tell them that it's okay
that it's safe and it's okay but like you can't
you can't just say it if you don't know Japanese
or if you don't know Hebrew you can't just say
it and make them feel comfortable so now you're
trying to break this language barrier between
the children and the families and also support
this child on multiple emotional levels not just
linguistically and it is it's hard and it's taxing
and you feel bad like that child's going through
it for those many months there obviously there's
emotional taxes that's happening throughout the
whole process oh my goodness and in your experience
so when you moved back to Israel and your daughter
would have started your oldest daughter would
have started school right yeah like you know
preschool she was still four okay yeah yes okay
and then how was that transition back to Israel
and then Hebrew speaking So, you know, we talked
Hebrew at home, so it's not like she had to learn
the language. No, of course not. She knew the
language, but still she had to struggle a little
with some sounds. But we were worried about her
English because we knew that the Hebrew would
be fine. But English was, how do you keep that
alive? And we really tried. We found this American
student living nearby. She came, I think, once
a week. to play and talk with her and it works
but you know it's not like you know living in
a really English speaking environment and then
at some point I forget when exactly but maybe
around the age of six we stopped and so you know
today of course she speaks English but not like
she used to at least not in terms of her accent
yeah Yes, yes, yes. Wow. Wow. And then in your
experience, how do these challenges show up in
less structured spaces? So like we have we've
talked about a little bit about child care centers,
but then what about in like before and after
school programs or in these out of school programs?
And how do you how do you think children not
only maintain these multiple languages, but also
thrive in a sense that they are emotionally connected
to to them? Yeah, I think that, you know, both
in the more structured environments and the after
-school programs or summer camp or whatever it
is, it's really always, always about us. When
I say us, I mean the adults, the instructors,
the managers, whoever is in charge. So, you know,
children, sure. Again, as I said before, put
a child in a new environment. And eventually,
even if they're really shy and even if it's not
their language, they will find their way, right?
But, you know, it can vary so much between one
child and another and can cost them, you know,
it can put a lot of pressure unnecessarily, of
course, on the child. And sometimes, as you say,
for many, many months, even more than that. So
it's really our responsibility. to help them
go through it as smoothly as possible and this
relates to so many things so even if you're talking
about language we need to remember that this
child who is maybe we want we want them to learn
english but at the same time they have another
language and maybe that's as important if not
more for them right because and this really depends
on the scenario right i mean Are we talking about
a child who mostly now speaks and hears English,
like an immigrant child, for example? Or maybe
in a different place or a different time, a child
who needs to learn English, but still their home
language and culture is the more dominant one,
right? So I think that the first thing that,
again, we, everybody who's in charge, need to...
be aware of is to know where this child is coming
from what's the family background what do they
want talk to the parents if you if you don't
speak their language find a way and today it's
much easier than it used to be because all you
need is two phones right and you can talk by
the way we can talk later about the future of
bilingualism a bit concerned about Oh, I would
love to talk about that, yes. But at least in
this sense of, you know, getting to know the
child, not only the child that you see, but the
entire culture and heritage and language and
family pressures and all kinds of things that
you need to know about, right? Because, again,
it really depends on the family, the age, so
many factors here. But these are things that
we need to be aware of. No, I completely agree.
And I think like in terms of this whole child,
and that's how we should see them. They're a
whole child. They're a whole being. And they
have all these amazing parts and pieces that
make them up that regardless of whether or not
they're learning English or immersed into an
environment where they have to learn English.
Their culture needs to shine through and their
home language needs to shine through because
that's going to be a part of them forever. And
it should be a part of them and we should be
valuing that. So as a parent, can I ask what
small or everyday practices either helped you
when your children were going through the English
childcare sector before you moved back or what
you would have liked to see more of? I think
that in our case, there wasn't. We weren't really
worried about her not knowing Hebrew, kind of
knew that most chances are that we're going back
to Israel. So in our case, it was kind of the
contrary, right? We wanted her to get as much
English as possible for a solid, you know, base.
I still kind of regret. I mean, there was nothing
we could do. We had to decide, stay or go back.
She would come back to Israel when she was six
or seven. It would be different, I think. I mean,
her English would be much stronger and would
stay like that, I think. This is what usually
happens. But still, she has a good level of English
today anyway. But for other parents, no. This
is a real conflict. I always tell my students...
when we're talking about language and language
acquisition, and especially when we're talking
about bilingualism and multilingualism, that
there's one word that's always there, and that's
conflict, right? Because when you're giving them
A, you're kind of taking away B, right? And it's
so hard to find this balance. We see this in
immigrant families, I think, the most, because,
you know, they've already made the decision,
and we're always talking about the fact that
you know, for the parents and definitely for
the grandparents, kind of like we gave up so
much, you know, it's your identity, it's your
way of living so much in order for children to
have a better future, right? So there are many
times you find parents who are kind of torn because
on one hand, in order for the child to have a
better future, let's take again the American
Canadian example. They better learn English and
be as good as anyone else, right? Be totally
immersed. But then what does it mean for the
family? What does it mean for the relationships
between the child and their parents and their
grandparents? We know that as time goes and you
get older, you're kind of spending more time
and you're more influenced by your peers. And
then you suddenly see... you know teenagers who
are kind of maybe ashamed to when their parents
are speaking in a different language in front
of them or even not speaking just being dressed
differently or whatever right anything that is
different wants to get away from so this is why
i'm talking about comfort right because it's
really hard to say what's the best route to go
oh my goodness you're making me think of so much
like you're absolutely right and it's it's hard
because As an English like English speaker born
in Canada, I strive as an educator to maintain
those like the multilingual and when people bring
they keep their culture. But you're absolutely
right because you can't you can't always stop.
Well, you can never stop people from feeling
how they're feeling. But also in that translation,
if their grandparents are there or their parents
and you have stories and histories and learnings
and rituals that you do and you bring down the
generations, they get lost in translation. So
keeping that part of your culture and keeping
that part of your sense of yourself, you don't
want to lose that. But then I can also see from
your point of view, like you're trying to do
what's best for your family and you're trying
to do what's best for your children and where
that conflict falls because now all of a sudden
you risk losing that, but you also risk your
children not. wanting to talk hebrew or your
children not wanting to talk brazilian or whatever
because they're they're surrounded by english
-speaking people and that's that's got to be
so incredibly hard and and and wow so i think
that let me just say that personally or in in
my case for my family this was i think the really
the the most important factor uh in our decision
to go back because it was like taking an offer
in the states versus going back to a not as good
offer, I would say. Still, we decided to go that
way because, above all, you know, we have friends,
Israelis and not Israelis, who stayed. And you
could just see, right? So our daughters were
really young at that time, but we had friends
with older children. And everything that I was
talking about earlier, you could just see it,
right? No one is trying to do anything bad, right?
It's so natural, right? We know what happens
when you're a teenager. We know what happens
in your 20s. Only much later, and this is, again,
documented in the literature. There are so many
studies about it. When people reach middle adults,
maybe in their 40s, then they go back, think
back, and regret, right? They regret if they
kind of lost their... heritage language and culture
they're going like oh no you know i all i have
now is a few like melodies maybe songs some smells
of the food you know things like that but i lost
the core instrument which is language to my own
culture again i'm i'm not judging anyone right
no no of course not as i said before it's first
it's a natural process happening again and again
throughout history when people especially in
immigration but for any time for any reason when
people change their linguistic environment these
things happen you know and even if you do your
best let's take the scenario when someone is
really trying and managing to keep their children
even when they're young adults in the loop right
they're they're they're speaking english outside
they're They're doing great, but at the same
time, they are very loyal to their heritage culture.
Okay, but what would happen in the next generation?
This will be much harder now, right? For the
grandchildren and grand -grandchildren to keep
up that language, that's very hard. Okay, so
what I'm saying is, I mean, for those parents
who struggle with these dilemmas, what I'm saying
is don't... What you're trying to do is bring
your children to the best place with the best
prospects. Don't blame yourself too much. Don't
be too hard on yourself. Because even if you
do everything possible, if you think about it
rationally, most chances are that in one, two
generations ahead, the next generation, what
they'll know is English. Because this is where
they're going to live. Wow. Yeah, no, and that's
a good point. Is there anything in your opinion
that educators should do to support children
who are adjusting to the new language or to new
languages? Sure. There are things that they must
do, really. So I think that first, again, what
every caregiver or, you know, daycare manager
or whatever needs to understand is that what
we're talking about is not only that, okay? It's
all range. developmental issues that need to
be treated emotionally, of course, socially,
cognitively. Everything is affected by changing
an environment, right? I mean, for example, take
this child who was the smartest in their school
or preschool. They're still super smart, but
if they don't have language now and it's going
to take them a while to catch up, what would
that do to their self -image? Again, this is
something that you see so many times, right?
Even if the subject matter is not really focused
on language, even if it's math, for example,
still, I mean, you know, you need to understand
what they want from you, what the question is,
right? What the hell is velocity? Yes, literally.
Yeah, so what I'm saying is that you need to
understand, as an educator, and especially in
early years, that the child is going through
a real challenge, okay, in many respects, not
only linguistics. And what we can do is, first,
of course, you know, what we do with every child,
regardless of language and this, you know, the
basics, right? Be there, physical contact, eye
contact. Just let them feel that you're there
supporting and loving them. But more than that,
for example, it's so crucial, again, that we
learn about the child from their parents and
maybe even other family members or other community
members and try to bring some of that culture
into our daycare or preschool, you know, show
some customs or food or celebrate their holidays,
anything that could. make the the child feel
at home and the family as well because it's not
it's as important also we i see too many times
unfortunately i see like the scenario where teachers
kind of give up on parents who are not from the
same culture either because they're not really
good in the local language or even if they know
the language there are so many you know cultural
barriers And then, of course, no one is doing
it, I hope, on purpose. But it's just a matter
of, you know, how people act naturally. And it's
really easy for us to put someone in that corner
or under that label of, oh, they're not really
communicative. They're not really, they don't
want to be part of this, of our little community
or whatever. Which is, in most cases, not the
case at all, right? On the contrary, you need
to put some extra effort and really bring them
in and make them understand what's going on.
There are so many little, you know, customs or
just the way things are handled, which are different
from place to place, which are hard to understand
for a foreigner. That's an excellent point. So
here in Ontario, we have this document, How Does
Learning Happen? And it talks about the foundations
of learning. being expression belonging well
-being and oh if i was being tested i would fail
expression well -being belonging and engagement
anyways but as you're speaking like I hear that
so wholeheartedly. You're absolutely right. I
think that it's so much more than just the whole
child. Or it's so much more than just the child.
It's the whole child. And attached to that is
their families and their extended family and
the community that they come from. Because we
do, we need to make them feel that they are a
part of this community as well. And the only
way we can do that is getting to know them and
bringing things in and learning from them, from
other people. What would make the child feel,
it sounds so common sense, like what would make
the child feel at home and welcome and cared
for and understand that that relationship with
the families is being built so that they feel
more safe at our centers and in our schools.
But you're right, it is. It's so easy and it's
almost second nature for people to try for a
little bit and then just give up even when it's
hard. And it's discouraging because they need
so much more than that. And wow, yeah, like you're
making it with some, I mean. You're a professional,
but you're making some really, really great points.
And I hope people listening are like, okay, I
can, okay, we need to try, we need to do this.
And even though it's hard, it's worth it. It's
worth it in the end, because not only are you
making these beautiful friendships and these
beautiful connections, but you're providing a
place for these families and for these children
to grow and learn and be comfortable, and then
which will lead to capableness and confidence.
And that's exactly what we want in our children,
right? I would also like to add that, you know,
I kind of mentioned that before. Today, there
are so many ways, technologically speaking, to
make things easier. Both for the child and for
the staff, you know, for teachers, caregivers,
everything is translatable, right? Instantly,
you can record the child and, you know, AI tells
you what they said or the old -fashioned send
it to their parents. AI can do it for you, but
just to show them that they're part of this,
right? And you want to make them part of the
process. So really things that before... There
are ways, of course, if you have another child
who speaks that language, they can get the role
of the translator, but, you know, to a limit
because it's hard for the child. Or, of course,
if you have a teacher who speaks that language,
perfect. But again, today, even if you don't,
still you have those tools which can help you
a lot. You know, sometimes it's just that one
word missing. you know, that could change the
whole day for the child. So I don't know, they
were talking about their bunny puppet, and you
had no idea, but now you know, and you get it
for them, and totally different thing. No, you're
absolutely right. And like, we have a lot of
multilingual learners that come into our program.
And we always ask families, like, what are some
words that we should look for? And anyways, you
know, September is always the hardest, because
that's when they're all... learning and trying
to be comfortable. But I find even when educators
make an effort into learning a couple phrases
in the child's home language, like, like you're
okay, or you're safe, or mom is coming back.
And you can break that kind of barrier a little
bit. I mean, don't get me wrong, my language
skills are not their subpar, to say the least.
But even like, I find even like we had a child
that spoke Spanish and learning that it's okay,
you're okay, or you're safe in Spanish and being
able to tell her that made it a little bit better.
for her and made the days not go as long. But
it's as simple as asking the families, right?
Even if you have to use the translator app to
ask the families, how do I say they're okay?
And then learning from them how to say that so
that they're part of that process. Exactly. No,
that's amazing. Let's speak a little bit about
peer relationships between children and how educators
can maybe foster those relationships, even if
they don't share a common language. Yeah, so,
you know, when we were talking about very young
children, you know, preschool, usually children
would be willing to accept anyone, right? They
would also be willing to learn words or songs
from that other language for fun. So we should
use that, right? When you're talking about the
older you go, the harder it gets because then
you get all the kind of not so nice social...
Yeah. social reception for for anyone who's different
doesn't matter in what sense right not only language
we all know what it is in middle school and definitely
in high school for someone to feel different
very hard but again when we're talking about
the little ones we can actually use that difference
for curiosity right so today juan will teach
everyone the spanish song right and again is
great and also you know when even in free play
you can you can see that in most cases children
will find a way right yeah i remember again one
personal anecdote is when i was eight we came
also to the states for one year when i was a
child and i remember the first day you know i
only knew just a few basic words not able to
say one sentence But then I came back on a bike.
Somehow I managed to find a friend and even to
get a bike from them. And my parents were very
happy about it. This is the magic of young children,
right? Beyond language. And there's so much hope
there because, I mean, that was, you said when
you were eight, so we didn't have the tools that
we have now to even... to fathom being able to
communicate with each other so you managed to
do that without these tools so that I think that
we are in pretty good hands to figure this out
with the tools that we have there's no excuses
now you're absolutely right though the older
the kids get the harder it is and I can I can
understand that to a whole level with the the
hormones and the conflicts and the things that
come with older kids So looking at specifically
before and after school programs, the ages can
range from as young as four, four and a half
to 12 here. Do you have any advice for how to,
or do you think that that's still early enough
that children can accept each other without hesitation?
Or do you think there's things that educators
should do to foster that learning environment
to make it easier for children to come into those
programs? Yeah. So, I mean, again, ideally, at
least, we need to train teachers. And maybe in
these places or in these settings, even more
so. I'm saying ideally because we know that,
you know, unfortunately, it's not always the
case. I'm being gentle here. I appreciate that.
But you're right. Sometimes, and it's all over
the world, the people who get those jobs are
really not qualified for any type of education
of course many are i'm not saying you know but
but we need to be so the bottom line is that
training is crucial here here i'm talking about
specifically about cross -cultural cross -linguistic
acceptance you know just knowledge and then also
some basic tools like the ones we discussed earlier
to help those children right and again if you're
talking about eight nine ten years old that's
where things become harder right so again the
teachers must be there to mediate to even protect
sometimes a child is struggling with a new language
yeah but to take the more optimistic side maybe
you know again we have so many ways now really
it's not like it used to be maybe where it was
like this kind of like sacred or secret knowledge
that only a few had. Everything is so, you know,
it's online, some basic tricks that can change
entirely the atmosphere for the whole class and
specifically for those children who are not native
speakers of a language. More really a matter
of will, you know, and motivation. This is, I'm
consulting you know, all kinds of preschools
and daycare centers. And I think that this is
above all the main issue. Sometimes you have
great people who are just exhausted, you know,
kind of lost their motivation. We're kind of
drifting away now to talk about the unfair case
of the status of early childhood education and
the pay people get. I always tell teachers and
managers, I'm here as a consultant, but believe
me, I wouldn't survive a day in your job. It's
so hard. It's so hard every day to go there and
take care of the kids. Yeah, this brings the
Forgotten EC title to a whole new level. It's
funny how we talk about being essential in this
field. how important early childhood is, which
we know for a fact it is. But then when we get
to the educators, it's it is it's kind of forgotten
on who we're letting teach our children, who
is teaching our children, and then the educators
that are teaching our children that are really
good, how we forget to appreciate and value them
to what they really deserve. But you're right.
That's just it's a great point. I'll never argue
with that. Through your research, though, you
talk, you have ed tech work. So how, we talked
a little bit about AI and that, but how can AI
and social robotics support early learning and
language development in ways that complement
human educators, especially in before and after
school care? Okay, great. So I'll start with
the, again, with the positive aspect. How we
can use AI. to help child development in general
and then also language learning. And then maybe
later also about the risks or some concerns that
I have and other people have. We should definitely
touch on the risks too. So positively speaking,
I'm going to give two examples from my own research.
One is actually that's outside of academia. It's
a startup where we're developing this language
learning assistant, okay? The idea is that the
robot is mediating between a very young child,
we're talking about even toddlers, and an adult.
Because that product is looking primarily at
the Chinese market, we know that in China and
many other Far East countries, it is the grandmas,
grandparents who are taking care of the little
ones. That's the model. That's just the way it
is. And then if we want to teach English at a
very young age, before school, and of course
in a friendly way, a fun way, what our robot
is doing is kind of like serving again as a bridge
between little baby and grandma who doesn't speak
English, right? So the robot needs to know Chinese
and English. But again, we're looking at a very
young age in which we know, the language learning
skill is optimal right so you don't want to wait
until not even four five six years of age as
we usually do to teach another language this
is always always something that strikes me you
know because parents teachers people who kind
of design the curriculum it's like two worlds
two different worlds the science says that the
younger you go the easiest it is There is no
problem for a child to acquire more than one
language. They can acquire four or five languages
even if you just give them exposure. But then
when you look in most places around the world,
people say, no, no, no, no, it's going to harm
them. Wait, wait. But then when you wait, you
lost that critical path, critical window in which
they were perfectly suited to learn. another
language so that's one thing that doing in a
different research at cornell currently we're
trying to develop a robot that is focused on
not only language but social emotional skills
in general and this robot again is a robo mediator
okay it's not wow when people hear about a robot
and a child they kind of reject the idea because
they're sure that we're talking about you know
Kind of like putting the child in front of the
screen. So now you're pressing it with your arm.
No, no, of course not. It's a triangle, okay?
Child rolled with an adult. And in this specific
case, we're trying to help children who are out
of home for a reason, of course, taking out of
home to residential care. And, of course, usually
these children, even the younger ones, kind of
lost trust, right, in people. Absolutely. This
is a big, big task for us to kind of help them
label emotions, understand their emotions, and
express emotions, both with language and without
it, through the robot. Okay, that's a big task
now. I hope we're on a good path to achieve it.
So far, it works fine with normally developing
children. We tested it in Ithaca, and I'm really
hopeful this is going to work with other children
as well, for children at risk. Oh, my goodness.
Both of these are incredible. And I mean, and
you talk about it so nonchalantly, like, oh,
we're just building robots to help with language
and social. But these are huge needs, huge needs
in child care and huge needs with children. Oh,
that would be like, even your work is incredible
to think about how we can better this socio -emotional
system and this language system and how we can
really keep culture alive in one through the
use of a robot to maintain English and Chinese
speaking, but also how you can foster this socio
-emotional learning for children. Like, wow.
No big deal though, right? Oh my goodness. And
then you said that there's some concerns you
have with AI and what that looks like. Do you
want to share some of those? Yeah. So I think
that the first concern is, you know, what we've
been seeing in the last decade or so, that is
kind of like this addiction, not only kids, we
also, to all those gadgets and screens and stuff.
And now with AI, even more so, it's really unbelievable.
Look at videos that AI makes now. So that's,
of course, the number one concern. But speaking
more specifically about the future of language,
when I think about language, again, I don't think
just about a tool for communication. This is
what most people, I think, are talking about
intuitively when they think about language. But
language is so much more than that. Language
is your identity. It's your culture. It's your
memories. It's pretty much... everything you
are as a human being i don't think i'm exaggerating
here no i would have to agree with you and then
with ai and other globalization related issues
you know we may face a future and not so far
away where first many languages are going to
disappear because you know it's already happening
English, you have Mandarin, you have Spanish,
you have Arabic. One of the big languages, kind
of like pushing away all those little ones. And
then, you know, when the younger generation stops
using language, that's it. At the end, you're
left with a few old people. And when they die,
it's gone. Maybe, you know, you can still preserve
it digitally, but it's not the same language
anymore. So that's one thing. Also, we talked
earlier about how... Amazing it is sometimes
when you have those instant translation abilities
now. But that's also a big concern because now
we're talking about a technology which already
exists, not fully powered, but it's already there.
And most likely in a few months or maybe one
year, it's going to be functional where, you
know, let's say you go to Vietnam. How's your
Vietnamese? Worse than my French, and my French
is bad, so terrible. But you're on this amazing
trip, you know, Vietnam, going to the market,
and you get to this place where there's no English,
no one speaks English. No problem. Why? Forget
about Google Translate and all that old stuff.
Now we're talking about you talking to a person
in English, and they hear you. With your own
voice, speaking Vietnamese, they answer in Vietnamese,
you hear them in their own voice in English.
And wow, okay, now no one needs to be bilingual
or multilingual because everything is translatable
instantly, right? And for me, that's a big concern
because, again, language is a whole world, right?
And there are things that I can think about and
talk about in Hebrew and not in English. And
vice versa, of course. It's much more than just
a tool. And if we lose that, you know, and of
course, not to mention all the other benefits
that we now kind of know about for bilinguals
and, you know, some cognitive advantages that
we know that bilingual people have, this will
be lost. So I hope that I'm wrong, you know.
Talking about the future of language is a very
risky bet, I would say, because you know, a good
example is who would go back in time like a thousand
years? What would be the dominant language of
the world at that time? What's your guess? Not
English. I was going to say it's not English.
Is it Hebrew? No, that was Latin. Latin. Yeah.
And then if you would go back. and tell someone
back at that time, if you know, in a few hundred
years, no one's going to know Latin. No one's
going to speak it, except for a few scholars.
They would just laugh at it, right? So who knows?
Who knows what the future of language is? But
that is scary, because we've talked a lot in
this conversation, but you're right. Language
is so much more than just the words that we speak.
And yeah, with this new idea of translation,
not only are you risking, I mean, the odd of
not being translated exactly how you mean, but
you're missing the emotion and stuff behind it.
You're just hearing the words that you're trying
to speak in a different language and it takes
out that whole cultural piece and that's hard.
And also, there's such beauty in language and
people learning how to speak different languages
and you're also losing that. So that is, that's
a little... scary but I also can understand like
there are so many benefits of being able to immerse
yourself somewhere and have to being able to
communicate right away so oh it is a double -edged
sword that is for sure oh thank you so much for
all of this do you have a message that you would
like to share with before and after school educators
or educators that could help them support bilingual
like a final message to help them support bilingual
and multilingual children you're like so much
actually listen up Yeah, I think that a good,
a really good way or kind of like an exercise
for us is to use our imagination and put ourselves
in the place of that child, right? Just think
about what it sounds like, what it smells like,
what it looks like in a totally different environment.
And again, even if you see friendly faces, smiley
faces. We're not sure. So many things to think
about. And when we do that, I think that it will
be easier for us to show even more empathy and
more patience and a bit longer hug, right? Every
time they're distressed, just to understand what
they're going through. Well, that's beautiful,
that personal piece. And keep personability alive.
Understand that people are people and that we
are all human. Like that, I think. that would
go a long way in the world in general but i agree
i agree completely let's start with our own little
kindergarten yes yes and then hopefully it's
a domino effect if we teach them how to be human
everyone else will just follow that's great Dr.
Yarden, where can people find you if they want
to reach out to you? Where can they find your
research if they want to read up more about it?
Or is it okay if people reach out to you? What
are you... Give me your best beer about you.
Yeah, I think that the first place to go would
be LinkedIn, I guess. Yep. Generally speaking,
you can find... Some of my research there. I'm
also leading lectures all over the world. Areas
that are related to children, of course, and
development. Also, check out our Cornell robot,
which is called Emobo. E -M -O -B -O. That's
a very exciting project that I'm, again, very
hopeful about. People can always email me. I
can definitely share it in our show notes, for
sure. Honestly, it has been such a pleasure talking
to you and learning a little bit more about multilingual
and bilingual, but also about the compassion
behind it and your incredible moves with AI and
robotics and also how this all ties down to the
whole child and being human at the end of it.
Wow, thank you. I forgot to mention that I also
published two books for children. Oh, yes, tell
us. One is about... a duck and a tiger and many
adventures that they go through and the other
is about the more recent one is about a house
which is being built by you know a family until
they kind of deserted they moved to a new house
but this house is not gonna give up and it finds
a way to chase them and to find so hopefully
Next time we speak, I'm going to have the two
English translations for you. Right now, it's
only in Hebrew. That's incredible, though. And
if you don't mind sharing those links with me,
I'm definitely okay with advertising the Hebrew
language of them. That's amazing. Oh, I'm excited.
And yes, I would love to speak again in the future
and see where this research is going and see
how you're doing. And thank you. Thank you so
much. Thank you, Jamie. Great. Thank you everyone
for listening to the Forgotten ECE today. I cannot
wait till our next episode and I hope you took
a lot away from this episode. Have a beautiful
day and stay empathetic and compassionate. Thank
you. Amazing listeners for your support. Don't
forget to follow me on Instagram at MissJamie
underscore R -E -C -E. Give a star rating and
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Again, thank you so much and happy learning.