WEBVTT 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:12.240 Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:14.640 before and after school educators, summer camp 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.079 and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:21.219 are seen, heard and valued. I'm your host, Jamie 00:00:21.219 --> 00:00:32.960 Wankler, and I'm so excited you're here. and 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.560 welcome back to the Forgotten ECE. I am so excited 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.119 today because joining us is Dr. Yarden Kadar, 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.000 a developmental psychologist whose work spans 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.560 language acquisition, cognitive development, 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:49.219 socio -emotional growth, and educational innovation. 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.979 Dr. Kadar holds a PhD in developmental psychology 00:00:52.979 --> 00:00:56.340 from Cornell University and has advised government 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:59.380 agencies, educational media, and non -profits 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:02.000 on early literacy and children's development. 00:01:02.509 --> 00:01:05.150 His research explores how children learn language 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:07.329 across cultures, how they navigate gestures, 00:01:07.709 --> 00:01:10.230 facial expressions, and social cues, and how 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.739 identity and emotion shape learning. He also 00:01:13.739 --> 00:01:17.000 works in the ed tech space, helping create joyful 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.359 and curious early learning experiences using 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:23.340 AI and social robotics. How cool. In addition 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:26.120 to his research and innovation work, Dr. Kadar 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:28.879 consults with child care officials and kindergarten 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:31.819 programs in Israel and the UK, and he brings 00:01:31.819 --> 00:01:34.739 a global perspective on what children need to 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:38.140 feel safe and seen. Today, we dive into one of 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:41.319 his most personal and powerful topics, the social 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:44.579 -emotional journey of bilingual children, inspired 00:01:44.579 --> 00:01:47.420 in part by the experiences of his own daughters 00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:51.439 as Hebrew -English bilingual learners in the 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:54.760 United States. Thank you so much for being here, 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:57.180 Dr. Yardin. It's such a pleasure to have you. 00:01:57.379 --> 00:01:59.519 Thank you, Jamie. Thank you for the introduction. 00:01:59.939 --> 00:02:03.890 Happy to be here. Beautiful. So, why don't you 00:02:03.890 --> 00:02:05.950 start by telling us about your daughter's early 00:02:05.950 --> 00:02:09.409 experiences as Hebrew, English, bilingual children 00:02:09.409 --> 00:02:12.289 in the United States. Right, so this takes us 00:02:12.289 --> 00:02:15.590 back quite a while. I mean, more than 20 years 00:02:15.590 --> 00:02:21.310 ago. Okay. When my wife and I, we came from Israel 00:02:21.310 --> 00:02:24.969 to Cornell University, Ithaca, New York. Beautiful 00:02:24.969 --> 00:02:28.490 place. And we went there because I started my 00:02:28.490 --> 00:02:32.710 PhD program. or actually my MA and Master's and 00:02:32.710 --> 00:02:36.590 PhD combined. We came as a young couple, 2001, 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:41.050 and then two years later, as I was struggling 00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:44.370 with my studies and getting my research done, 00:02:44.530 --> 00:02:49.069 our first child was born, Kaya, and then three 00:02:49.069 --> 00:02:52.370 years later, second daughter, Talia, was born. 00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:57.560 So both are proud. So two of my daughters, I 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.819 have three daughters, two of them were born in 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:03.659 the States. And we, that time we stayed until 00:03:03.659 --> 00:03:08.560 2007. So when we came back, when we went back 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.639 to Israel, Gaia, my eldest, was four and more 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.840 than four years old. And Talia was one year old. 00:03:16.250 --> 00:03:19.469 And then especially Gaia was, of course, a bilingual 00:03:19.469 --> 00:03:22.849 speaker, maybe even a better English speaker 00:03:22.849 --> 00:03:25.909 than the Hebrew speaker because she went to daycare, 00:03:26.150 --> 00:03:28.710 you know, and she was immersed in English the 00:03:28.710 --> 00:03:32.050 whole day. But at least 50 -50. So she had a 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:34.969 perfect accent, perfect American accent. And 00:03:34.969 --> 00:03:39.030 she was also speaking Hebrew at home. So as I 00:03:39.030 --> 00:03:43.740 was doing my research on actually my... PhD research 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:47.539 was on monolingual children and infants. But 00:03:47.539 --> 00:03:50.500 at the same time, of course, if you're curious 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:53.479 about language and you care about your own daughter, 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.000 of course, then it's hard to miss, right? The 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.060 amazing ability of young children to acquire 00:03:59.060 --> 00:04:02.719 two languages and actually many more. Wow. And 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.280 you did all of that while not only studying your 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.620 master's and your doctorate, but then moving 00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:12.120 from Israel to U .S. and then U .S. back to Israel. 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:19.759 Exactly. Right. No big deal, though, right? That's 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.480 incredible. So that's kind of where this journey 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.639 started. And then what stood out to you in those 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.660 first few months of English exposure, whether 00:04:28.660 --> 00:04:30.720 it's socially, emotionally or linguistically? 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.439 So I was looking at Gaia, my own daughter, but 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:37.199 also, you know, we met quite a few other Israeli 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.500 families who also came to Cornell to study and 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:44.139 work. And not only Israelis, other people from 00:04:44.139 --> 00:04:47.180 all kinds of places around the world. Ithaca 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:50.180 is, of course, an international college town, 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:52.360 so you get to meet people from all around the 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:55.500 world. And, you know, there's no special place, 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.839 of course, for bilingual children. They just 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:03.019 go into a normal English -speaking daycare. And 00:05:03.019 --> 00:05:07.420 this was, you know, on one hand, it's an amazing 00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:10.420 thing to see. On the other hand... It's not an 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:13.199 easy process, you know, and this is what many 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:18.939 people kind of miss. So they say, oh, wow, language 00:05:18.939 --> 00:05:22.000 is so easy for children. They just get it like 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.360 that, you know, easy, which is true. It's true. 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:28.660 I mean, look at us. Try learning Japanese today. 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:33.399 What's going to happen? Yeah, well, I still try 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:40.019 to learn French, OK? So we all know this kind 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:42.740 of frustrating feeling when we're trying to, 00:05:42.819 --> 00:05:45.300 I don't know if you're doing Duolingo or whatever. 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:49.759 Absolutely. We just know, right? You don't have 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.360 to be a language expert in order to see the huge 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.120 difference between a child and an adult. And 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:00.019 the older you get, the harder it gets to learn 00:06:00.019 --> 00:06:03.259 another language. So on one hand, people are... 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.620 are right when they say that it's easy for children 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:09.920 to acquire a language but still it's not a matter 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:12.740 of one day or two days it's still a process of 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:16.240 a few months at least and it's not only about 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.779 language of course right because it's not only 00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:22.319 like us you're an adult trying to learn a language 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:24.500 you have your life and at the same time you're 00:06:24.500 --> 00:06:27.100 trying to learn a language but for these children 00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:30.800 you're suddenly in a new environment not only 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.250 linguistically but culturally and in every other 00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:38.290 respect. And that's a big challenge. So I have 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:42.189 a friend, a good Israeli friend. They actually 00:06:42.189 --> 00:06:45.029 stayed in Ithaca. They're still in Ithaca for 00:06:45.029 --> 00:06:48.910 many years now. But we always remember those 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:53.250 first days when his daughter went into this American, 00:06:53.470 --> 00:06:56.910 very friendly, of course, but for her, foreign 00:06:56.910 --> 00:07:00.589 and kind of Breton -y new place, English -speaking. 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.779 And this girl, who today is a very smiley person 00:07:04.779 --> 00:07:08.459 and happy person, but at that time, she just 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:13.300 cried and cried. Not one morning, not two, not 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:17.759 for a week, but for weeks. She just cried. That's 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:21.899 all she did. And I remember looking at him outside, 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:25.459 you know, not sure what to do. So hard, so hard 00:07:25.459 --> 00:07:29.199 for both the child and the parent. So this, going 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.279 back to your question, I think, This is something 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.420 that not enough people, including professionals, 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:41.759 are aware about. Okay, yeah, sure, we know that, 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:43.759 you know, there's this saying, it's all going 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.120 to be okay by Christmas, right? Because they 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:50.579 start like late August. Don't worry. And usually 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:53.500 they're right. I mean, of course, it's not like... 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:57.379 that this Israeli or, I don't know, Brazilian 00:07:57.379 --> 00:08:01.660 child who came to the US or to Canada will be, 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:05.040 you know, master of English after three months. 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.680 But what we want to see is that they are able 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.860 to understand simple sentences and then slowly 00:08:11.860 --> 00:08:15.420 kind of utter their own, you know, words and 00:08:15.420 --> 00:08:18.839 sentences. So usually, yes, this is what happens. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:22.300 But, you know, still there are four, five, six, 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:27.290 seven tough, Yeah, you know what? This speaks 00:08:27.290 --> 00:08:31.110 to my heart. As an educator in the system, we 00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:34.889 had a child start last year who moved from Japan 00:08:34.889 --> 00:08:37.850 and literally all she ever spoke was Japanese. 00:08:37.970 --> 00:08:41.789 And trying to help her not even just understand 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:43.210 the English that we're speaking, but that she's 00:08:43.210 --> 00:08:46.789 in a safe place and that it's okay was hard enough. 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:49.490 And you're right, it was. It was literally months 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:51.690 of crying. And then you feel bad for the educator, 00:08:51.830 --> 00:08:54.009 you feel bad for the parents. and trying to also 00:08:54.009 --> 00:08:56.409 there's that that language barrier with the families 00:08:56.409 --> 00:08:58.470 and you're trying to tell them that it's okay 00:08:58.470 --> 00:09:01.450 that it's safe and it's okay but like you can't 00:09:01.450 --> 00:09:03.269 you can't just say it if you don't know Japanese 00:09:03.269 --> 00:09:05.610 or if you don't know Hebrew you can't just say 00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:07.830 it and make them feel comfortable so now you're 00:09:07.830 --> 00:09:09.549 trying to break this language barrier between 00:09:09.549 --> 00:09:12.190 the children and the families and also support 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:16.450 this child on multiple emotional levels not just 00:09:17.329 --> 00:09:20.029 linguistically and it is it's hard and it's taxing 00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:22.009 and you feel bad like that child's going through 00:09:22.009 --> 00:09:24.289 it for those many months there obviously there's 00:09:24.289 --> 00:09:27.049 emotional taxes that's happening throughout the 00:09:27.049 --> 00:09:30.110 whole process oh my goodness and in your experience 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:34.769 so when you moved back to Israel and your daughter 00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:36.269 would have started your oldest daughter would 00:09:36.269 --> 00:09:38.590 have started school right yeah like you know 00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:42.649 preschool she was still four okay yeah yes okay 00:09:42.649 --> 00:09:45.269 and then how was that transition back to Israel 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:49.850 and then Hebrew speaking So, you know, we talked 00:09:49.850 --> 00:09:52.789 Hebrew at home, so it's not like she had to learn 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:55.429 the language. No, of course not. She knew the 00:09:55.429 --> 00:09:58.129 language, but still she had to struggle a little 00:09:58.129 --> 00:10:01.250 with some sounds. But we were worried about her 00:10:01.250 --> 00:10:04.009 English because we knew that the Hebrew would 00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:07.590 be fine. But English was, how do you keep that 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:11.370 alive? And we really tried. We found this American 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:14.870 student living nearby. She came, I think, once 00:10:14.870 --> 00:10:19.840 a week. to play and talk with her and it works 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.659 but you know it's not like you know living in 00:10:23.659 --> 00:10:27.399 a really English speaking environment and then 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.620 at some point I forget when exactly but maybe 00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:36.480 around the age of six we stopped and so you know 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.059 today of course she speaks English but not like 00:10:39.059 --> 00:10:42.120 she used to at least not in terms of her accent 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:47.779 yeah Yes, yes, yes. Wow. Wow. And then in your 00:10:47.779 --> 00:10:50.279 experience, how do these challenges show up in 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:52.820 less structured spaces? So like we have we've 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:54.899 talked about a little bit about child care centers, 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:57.159 but then what about in like before and after 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.480 school programs or in these out of school programs? 00:10:59.539 --> 00:11:03.759 And how do you how do you think children not 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.600 only maintain these multiple languages, but also 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.879 thrive in a sense that they are emotionally connected 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:14.929 to to them? Yeah, I think that, you know, both 00:11:14.929 --> 00:11:19.950 in the more structured environments and the after 00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:22.970 -school programs or summer camp or whatever it 00:11:22.970 --> 00:11:27.370 is, it's really always, always about us. When 00:11:27.370 --> 00:11:30.789 I say us, I mean the adults, the instructors, 00:11:31.269 --> 00:11:34.690 the managers, whoever is in charge. So, you know, 00:11:34.730 --> 00:11:38.389 children, sure. Again, as I said before, put 00:11:38.389 --> 00:11:41.840 a child in a new environment. And eventually, 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.799 even if they're really shy and even if it's not 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:48.000 their language, they will find their way, right? 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:51.960 But, you know, it can vary so much between one 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:55.600 child and another and can cost them, you know, 00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:59.379 it can put a lot of pressure unnecessarily, of 00:11:59.379 --> 00:12:03.039 course, on the child. And sometimes, as you say, 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.759 for many, many months, even more than that. So 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:11.039 it's really our responsibility. to help them 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.179 go through it as smoothly as possible and this 00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:18.240 relates to so many things so even if you're talking 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.639 about language we need to remember that this 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.559 child who is maybe we want we want them to learn 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.740 english but at the same time they have another 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:33.220 language and maybe that's as important if not 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:36.240 more for them right because and this really depends 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.879 on the scenario right i mean Are we talking about 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.779 a child who mostly now speaks and hears English, 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:47.980 like an immigrant child, for example? Or maybe 00:12:47.980 --> 00:12:51.120 in a different place or a different time, a child 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.740 who needs to learn English, but still their home 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:58.740 language and culture is the more dominant one, 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:02.539 right? So I think that the first thing that, 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:06.620 again, we, everybody who's in charge, need to... 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.860 be aware of is to know where this child is coming 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.860 from what's the family background what do they 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.759 want talk to the parents if you if you don't 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.039 speak their language find a way and today it's 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:22.519 much easier than it used to be because all you 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.679 need is two phones right and you can talk by 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.120 the way we can talk later about the future of 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:35.440 bilingualism a bit concerned about Oh, I would 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.259 love to talk about that, yes. But at least in 00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:41.919 this sense of, you know, getting to know the 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:45.240 child, not only the child that you see, but the 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.320 entire culture and heritage and language and 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:51.600 family pressures and all kinds of things that 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.279 you need to know about, right? Because, again, 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:57.899 it really depends on the family, the age, so 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:00.460 many factors here. But these are things that 00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:04.100 we need to be aware of. No, I completely agree. 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.740 And I think like in terms of this whole child, 00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:08.539 and that's how we should see them. They're a 00:14:08.539 --> 00:14:10.200 whole child. They're a whole being. And they 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.000 have all these amazing parts and pieces that 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.000 make them up that regardless of whether or not 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.340 they're learning English or immersed into an 00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:19.019 environment where they have to learn English. 00:14:19.710 --> 00:14:22.009 Their culture needs to shine through and their 00:14:22.009 --> 00:14:23.590 home language needs to shine through because 00:14:23.590 --> 00:14:25.350 that's going to be a part of them forever. And 00:14:25.350 --> 00:14:26.669 it should be a part of them and we should be 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:29.809 valuing that. So as a parent, can I ask what 00:14:29.809 --> 00:14:33.450 small or everyday practices either helped you 00:14:33.450 --> 00:14:36.809 when your children were going through the English 00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:40.110 childcare sector before you moved back or what 00:14:40.110 --> 00:14:43.450 you would have liked to see more of? I think 00:14:43.450 --> 00:14:47.799 that in our case, there wasn't. We weren't really 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:51.240 worried about her not knowing Hebrew, kind of 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.039 knew that most chances are that we're going back 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.700 to Israel. So in our case, it was kind of the 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:01.159 contrary, right? We wanted her to get as much 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:04.759 English as possible for a solid, you know, base. 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.659 I still kind of regret. I mean, there was nothing 00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:11.960 we could do. We had to decide, stay or go back. 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:15.840 She would come back to Israel when she was six 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.279 or seven. It would be different, I think. I mean, 00:15:19.299 --> 00:15:21.980 her English would be much stronger and would 00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:25.419 stay like that, I think. This is what usually 00:15:25.419 --> 00:15:28.720 happens. But still, she has a good level of English 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:32.980 today anyway. But for other parents, no. This 00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:37.200 is a real conflict. I always tell my students... 00:15:37.389 --> 00:15:39.289 when we're talking about language and language 00:15:39.289 --> 00:15:41.529 acquisition, and especially when we're talking 00:15:41.529 --> 00:15:44.450 about bilingualism and multilingualism, that 00:15:44.450 --> 00:15:47.649 there's one word that's always there, and that's 00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:50.929 conflict, right? Because when you're giving them 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:55.929 A, you're kind of taking away B, right? And it's 00:15:55.929 --> 00:15:58.730 so hard to find this balance. We see this in 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:02.090 immigrant families, I think, the most, because, 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:04.450 you know, they've already made the decision, 00:16:04.669 --> 00:16:07.090 and we're always talking about the fact that 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.429 you know, for the parents and definitely for 00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:12.809 the grandparents, kind of like we gave up so 00:16:12.809 --> 00:16:15.789 much, you know, it's your identity, it's your 00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:19.529 way of living so much in order for children to 00:16:19.529 --> 00:16:22.769 have a better future, right? So there are many 00:16:22.769 --> 00:16:25.570 times you find parents who are kind of torn because 00:16:25.570 --> 00:16:28.370 on one hand, in order for the child to have a 00:16:28.370 --> 00:16:30.690 better future, let's take again the American 00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:35.490 Canadian example. They better learn English and 00:16:35.490 --> 00:16:38.769 be as good as anyone else, right? Be totally 00:16:38.769 --> 00:16:41.289 immersed. But then what does it mean for the 00:16:41.289 --> 00:16:44.129 family? What does it mean for the relationships 00:16:44.129 --> 00:16:46.809 between the child and their parents and their 00:16:46.809 --> 00:16:50.210 grandparents? We know that as time goes and you 00:16:50.210 --> 00:16:53.710 get older, you're kind of spending more time 00:16:53.710 --> 00:16:56.789 and you're more influenced by your peers. And 00:16:56.789 --> 00:17:00.480 then you suddenly see... you know teenagers who 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.140 are kind of maybe ashamed to when their parents 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:07.420 are speaking in a different language in front 00:17:07.420 --> 00:17:11.240 of them or even not speaking just being dressed 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.720 differently or whatever right anything that is 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:17.819 different wants to get away from so this is why 00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.240 i'm talking about comfort right because it's 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.579 really hard to say what's the best route to go 00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:25.940 oh my goodness you're making me think of so much 00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:28.480 like you're absolutely right and it's it's hard 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.700 because As an English like English speaker born 00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:35.000 in Canada, I strive as an educator to maintain 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.279 those like the multilingual and when people bring 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.059 they keep their culture. But you're absolutely 00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:42.339 right because you can't you can't always stop. 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:44.460 Well, you can never stop people from feeling 00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:46.839 how they're feeling. But also in that translation, 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.200 if their grandparents are there or their parents 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.500 and you have stories and histories and learnings 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:54.539 and rituals that you do and you bring down the 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.779 generations, they get lost in translation. So 00:17:56.779 --> 00:17:58.640 keeping that part of your culture and keeping 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.740 that part of your sense of yourself, you don't 00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:03.259 want to lose that. But then I can also see from 00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:04.819 your point of view, like you're trying to do 00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:06.500 what's best for your family and you're trying 00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:08.079 to do what's best for your children and where 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:10.559 that conflict falls because now all of a sudden 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.680 you risk losing that, but you also risk your 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.559 children not. wanting to talk hebrew or your 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.920 children not wanting to talk brazilian or whatever 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.259 because they're they're surrounded by english 00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:22.980 -speaking people and that's that's got to be 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:27.079 so incredibly hard and and and wow so i think 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:31.200 that let me just say that personally or in in 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.940 my case for my family this was i think the really 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:39.400 the the most important factor uh in our decision 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.900 to go back because it was like taking an offer 00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:47.190 in the states versus going back to a not as good 00:18:47.190 --> 00:18:50.410 offer, I would say. Still, we decided to go that 00:18:50.410 --> 00:18:54.069 way because, above all, you know, we have friends, 00:18:54.410 --> 00:18:58.210 Israelis and not Israelis, who stayed. And you 00:18:58.210 --> 00:19:01.049 could just see, right? So our daughters were 00:19:01.049 --> 00:19:03.329 really young at that time, but we had friends 00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:06.130 with older children. And everything that I was 00:19:06.130 --> 00:19:08.849 talking about earlier, you could just see it, 00:19:08.869 --> 00:19:12.069 right? No one is trying to do anything bad, right? 00:19:12.109 --> 00:19:15.630 It's so natural, right? We know what happens 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.849 when you're a teenager. We know what happens 00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:22.269 in your 20s. Only much later, and this is, again, 00:19:22.410 --> 00:19:25.450 documented in the literature. There are so many 00:19:25.450 --> 00:19:29.049 studies about it. When people reach middle adults, 00:19:29.150 --> 00:19:32.170 maybe in their 40s, then they go back, think 00:19:32.170 --> 00:19:36.170 back, and regret, right? They regret if they 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:40.069 kind of lost their... heritage language and culture 00:19:40.069 --> 00:19:44.470 they're going like oh no you know i all i have 00:19:44.470 --> 00:19:49.289 now is a few like melodies maybe songs some smells 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:51.509 of the food you know things like that but i lost 00:19:51.509 --> 00:19:55.430 the core instrument which is language to my own 00:19:55.430 --> 00:19:59.049 culture again i'm i'm not judging anyone right 00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:02.269 no no of course not as i said before it's first 00:20:02.269 --> 00:20:05.230 it's a natural process happening again and again 00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:08.160 throughout history when people especially in 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.160 immigration but for any time for any reason when 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.279 people change their linguistic environment these 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.019 things happen you know and even if you do your 00:20:18.019 --> 00:20:21.359 best let's take the scenario when someone is 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:26.299 really trying and managing to keep their children 00:20:26.299 --> 00:20:29.960 even when they're young adults in the loop right 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.539 they're they're they're speaking english outside 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:35.170 they're They're doing great, but at the same 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:38.730 time, they are very loyal to their heritage culture. 00:20:39.009 --> 00:20:41.769 Okay, but what would happen in the next generation? 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:45.470 This will be much harder now, right? For the 00:20:45.470 --> 00:20:48.769 grandchildren and grand -grandchildren to keep 00:20:48.769 --> 00:20:52.569 up that language, that's very hard. Okay, so 00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:55.809 what I'm saying is, I mean, for those parents 00:20:55.809 --> 00:20:59.930 who struggle with these dilemmas, what I'm saying 00:20:59.930 --> 00:21:03.210 is don't... What you're trying to do is bring 00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:06.349 your children to the best place with the best 00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:09.410 prospects. Don't blame yourself too much. Don't 00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:11.589 be too hard on yourself. Because even if you 00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:14.990 do everything possible, if you think about it 00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:18.190 rationally, most chances are that in one, two 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:21.869 generations ahead, the next generation, what 00:21:21.869 --> 00:21:24.569 they'll know is English. Because this is where 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:27.730 they're going to live. Wow. Yeah, no, and that's 00:21:27.730 --> 00:21:30.200 a good point. Is there anything in your opinion 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.900 that educators should do to support children 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:36.079 who are adjusting to the new language or to new 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:39.220 languages? Sure. There are things that they must 00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:43.400 do, really. So I think that first, again, what 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:47.339 every caregiver or, you know, daycare manager 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:50.640 or whatever needs to understand is that what 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:54.319 we're talking about is not only that, okay? It's 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:58.609 all range. developmental issues that need to 00:21:58.609 --> 00:22:02.710 be treated emotionally, of course, socially, 00:22:02.849 --> 00:22:05.809 cognitively. Everything is affected by changing 00:22:05.809 --> 00:22:09.630 an environment, right? I mean, for example, take 00:22:09.630 --> 00:22:13.809 this child who was the smartest in their school 00:22:13.809 --> 00:22:16.910 or preschool. They're still super smart, but 00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:18.970 if they don't have language now and it's going 00:22:18.970 --> 00:22:22.869 to take them a while to catch up, what would 00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:26.950 that do to their self -image? Again, this is 00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:29.170 something that you see so many times, right? 00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:33.829 Even if the subject matter is not really focused 00:22:33.829 --> 00:22:36.809 on language, even if it's math, for example, 00:22:36.950 --> 00:22:40.589 still, I mean, you know, you need to understand 00:22:40.589 --> 00:22:43.109 what they want from you, what the question is, 00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:47.670 right? What the hell is velocity? Yes, literally. 00:22:50.910 --> 00:22:53.750 Yeah, so what I'm saying is that you need to 00:22:53.750 --> 00:22:56.690 understand, as an educator, and especially in 00:22:56.690 --> 00:23:00.029 early years, that the child is going through 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:03.309 a real challenge, okay, in many respects, not 00:23:03.309 --> 00:23:08.009 only linguistics. And what we can do is, first, 00:23:08.109 --> 00:23:10.609 of course, you know, what we do with every child, 00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:13.450 regardless of language and this, you know, the 00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:17.410 basics, right? Be there, physical contact, eye 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:20.809 contact. Just let them feel that you're there 00:23:20.809 --> 00:23:23.769 supporting and loving them. But more than that, 00:23:23.829 --> 00:23:27.529 for example, it's so crucial, again, that we 00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:30.809 learn about the child from their parents and 00:23:30.809 --> 00:23:34.009 maybe even other family members or other community 00:23:34.009 --> 00:23:37.470 members and try to bring some of that culture 00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:41.529 into our daycare or preschool, you know, show 00:23:41.529 --> 00:23:46.230 some customs or food or celebrate their holidays, 00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:50.599 anything that could. make the the child feel 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.940 at home and the family as well because it's not 00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:58.480 it's as important also we i see too many times 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.559 unfortunately i see like the scenario where teachers 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.619 kind of give up on parents who are not from the 00:24:06.619 --> 00:24:09.220 same culture either because they're not really 00:24:09.220 --> 00:24:13.180 good in the local language or even if they know 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:16.680 the language there are so many you know cultural 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:19.950 barriers And then, of course, no one is doing 00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:23.230 it, I hope, on purpose. But it's just a matter 00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:28.230 of, you know, how people act naturally. And it's 00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:32.710 really easy for us to put someone in that corner 00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:35.670 or under that label of, oh, they're not really 00:24:35.670 --> 00:24:39.529 communicative. They're not really, they don't 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:42.910 want to be part of this, of our little community 00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:46.089 or whatever. Which is, in most cases, not the 00:24:46.089 --> 00:24:49.589 case at all, right? On the contrary, you need 00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:53.650 to put some extra effort and really bring them 00:24:53.650 --> 00:24:56.170 in and make them understand what's going on. 00:24:56.349 --> 00:24:59.769 There are so many little, you know, customs or 00:24:59.769 --> 00:25:03.509 just the way things are handled, which are different 00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:06.269 from place to place, which are hard to understand 00:25:06.269 --> 00:25:09.150 for a foreigner. That's an excellent point. So 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:12.109 here in Ontario, we have this document, How Does 00:25:12.109 --> 00:25:14.109 Learning Happen? And it talks about the foundations 00:25:14.109 --> 00:25:17.410 of learning. being expression belonging well 00:25:17.410 --> 00:25:20.750 -being and oh if i was being tested i would fail 00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:24.109 expression well -being belonging and engagement 00:25:24.109 --> 00:25:28.160 anyways but as you're speaking like I hear that 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.500 so wholeheartedly. You're absolutely right. I 00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.059 think that it's so much more than just the whole 00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:35.559 child. Or it's so much more than just the child. 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.240 It's the whole child. And attached to that is 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.339 their families and their extended family and 00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:42.660 the community that they come from. Because we 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:45.160 do, we need to make them feel that they are a 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.539 part of this community as well. And the only 00:25:47.539 --> 00:25:49.660 way we can do that is getting to know them and 00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:53.180 bringing things in and learning from them, from 00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:55.990 other people. What would make the child feel, 00:25:56.109 --> 00:25:58.470 it sounds so common sense, like what would make 00:25:58.470 --> 00:26:00.369 the child feel at home and welcome and cared 00:26:00.369 --> 00:26:02.509 for and understand that that relationship with 00:26:02.509 --> 00:26:04.410 the families is being built so that they feel 00:26:04.410 --> 00:26:07.369 more safe at our centers and in our schools. 00:26:07.529 --> 00:26:09.349 But you're right, it is. It's so easy and it's 00:26:09.349 --> 00:26:11.450 almost second nature for people to try for a 00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:13.150 little bit and then just give up even when it's 00:26:13.150 --> 00:26:17.329 hard. And it's discouraging because they need 00:26:17.329 --> 00:26:19.950 so much more than that. And wow, yeah, like you're 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:21.829 making it with some, I mean. You're a professional, 00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:24.230 but you're making some really, really great points. 00:26:24.289 --> 00:26:26.869 And I hope people listening are like, okay, I 00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:29.529 can, okay, we need to try, we need to do this. 00:26:29.549 --> 00:26:32.089 And even though it's hard, it's worth it. It's 00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:33.670 worth it in the end, because not only are you 00:26:33.670 --> 00:26:35.329 making these beautiful friendships and these 00:26:35.329 --> 00:26:37.650 beautiful connections, but you're providing a 00:26:37.650 --> 00:26:39.809 place for these families and for these children 00:26:39.809 --> 00:26:43.170 to grow and learn and be comfortable, and then 00:26:43.170 --> 00:26:45.569 which will lead to capableness and confidence. 00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:47.450 And that's exactly what we want in our children, 00:26:47.569 --> 00:26:50.349 right? I would also like to add that, you know, 00:26:50.369 --> 00:26:53.329 I kind of mentioned that before. Today, there 00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:56.650 are so many ways, technologically speaking, to 00:26:56.650 --> 00:26:59.480 make things easier. Both for the child and for 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.859 the staff, you know, for teachers, caregivers, 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:06.099 everything is translatable, right? Instantly, 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:10.660 you can record the child and, you know, AI tells 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:14.819 you what they said or the old -fashioned send 00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:17.259 it to their parents. AI can do it for you, but 00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:21.279 just to show them that they're part of this, 00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:24.019 right? And you want to make them part of the 00:27:24.019 --> 00:27:27.480 process. So really things that before... There 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.900 are ways, of course, if you have another child 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:32.400 who speaks that language, they can get the role 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.259 of the translator, but, you know, to a limit 00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:38.160 because it's hard for the child. Or, of course, 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.599 if you have a teacher who speaks that language, 00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:44.039 perfect. But again, today, even if you don't, 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.160 still you have those tools which can help you 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.279 a lot. You know, sometimes it's just that one 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.319 word missing. you know, that could change the 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:55.380 whole day for the child. So I don't know, they 00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:58.740 were talking about their bunny puppet, and you 00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:01.339 had no idea, but now you know, and you get it 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:04.319 for them, and totally different thing. No, you're 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:06.460 absolutely right. And like, we have a lot of 00:28:06.460 --> 00:28:09.099 multilingual learners that come into our program. 00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:11.619 And we always ask families, like, what are some 00:28:11.619 --> 00:28:14.619 words that we should look for? And anyways, you 00:28:14.619 --> 00:28:16.279 know, September is always the hardest, because 00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:17.970 that's when they're all... learning and trying 00:28:17.970 --> 00:28:20.089 to be comfortable. But I find even when educators 00:28:20.089 --> 00:28:22.250 make an effort into learning a couple phrases 00:28:22.250 --> 00:28:25.109 in the child's home language, like, like you're 00:28:25.109 --> 00:28:27.730 okay, or you're safe, or mom is coming back. 00:28:27.750 --> 00:28:30.069 And you can break that kind of barrier a little 00:28:30.069 --> 00:28:31.809 bit. I mean, don't get me wrong, my language 00:28:31.809 --> 00:28:34.369 skills are not their subpar, to say the least. 00:28:35.009 --> 00:28:38.950 But even like, I find even like we had a child 00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:41.950 that spoke Spanish and learning that it's okay, 00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:44.289 you're okay, or you're safe in Spanish and being 00:28:44.289 --> 00:28:46.450 able to tell her that made it a little bit better. 00:28:46.569 --> 00:28:49.609 for her and made the days not go as long. But 00:28:49.609 --> 00:28:52.150 it's as simple as asking the families, right? 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:54.650 Even if you have to use the translator app to 00:28:54.650 --> 00:28:56.230 ask the families, how do I say they're okay? 00:28:56.410 --> 00:28:58.569 And then learning from them how to say that so 00:28:58.569 --> 00:29:01.470 that they're part of that process. Exactly. No, 00:29:01.569 --> 00:29:04.490 that's amazing. Let's speak a little bit about 00:29:04.490 --> 00:29:08.730 peer relationships between children and how educators 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:12.250 can maybe foster those relationships, even if 00:29:12.250 --> 00:29:14.819 they don't share a common language. Yeah, so, 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.700 you know, when we were talking about very young 00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:21.259 children, you know, preschool, usually children 00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:25.700 would be willing to accept anyone, right? They 00:29:25.700 --> 00:29:29.160 would also be willing to learn words or songs 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.440 from that other language for fun. So we should 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.700 use that, right? When you're talking about the 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:38.440 older you go, the harder it gets because then 00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:41.819 you get all the kind of not so nice social... 00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:47.029 Yeah. social reception for for anyone who's different 00:29:47.029 --> 00:29:51.130 doesn't matter in what sense right not only language 00:29:51.130 --> 00:29:54.410 we all know what it is in middle school and definitely 00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:57.369 in high school for someone to feel different 00:29:57.369 --> 00:30:00.430 very hard but again when we're talking about 00:30:00.430 --> 00:30:03.589 the little ones we can actually use that difference 00:30:03.589 --> 00:30:09.250 for curiosity right so today juan will teach 00:30:09.250 --> 00:30:13.640 everyone the spanish song right and again is 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.160 great and also you know when even in free play 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:21.240 you can you can see that in most cases children 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.380 will find a way right yeah i remember again one 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:29.859 personal anecdote is when i was eight we came 00:30:29.859 --> 00:30:33.640 also to the states for one year when i was a 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.299 child and i remember the first day you know i 00:30:37.299 --> 00:30:41.319 only knew just a few basic words not able to 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.640 say one sentence But then I came back on a bike. 00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:49.319 Somehow I managed to find a friend and even to 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.440 get a bike from them. And my parents were very 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:57.519 happy about it. This is the magic of young children, 00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:00.519 right? Beyond language. And there's so much hope 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:02.940 there because, I mean, that was, you said when 00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:04.960 you were eight, so we didn't have the tools that 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.640 we have now to even... to fathom being able to 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.640 communicate with each other so you managed to 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:12.900 do that without these tools so that I think that 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:15.259 we are in pretty good hands to figure this out 00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:17.539 with the tools that we have there's no excuses 00:31:17.539 --> 00:31:21.579 now you're absolutely right though the older 00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:23.920 the kids get the harder it is and I can I can 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:26.539 understand that to a whole level with the the 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:28.420 hormones and the conflicts and the things that 00:31:28.420 --> 00:31:30.559 come with older kids So looking at specifically 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.240 before and after school programs, the ages can 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.519 range from as young as four, four and a half 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:39.680 to 12 here. Do you have any advice for how to, 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.559 or do you think that that's still early enough 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:45.299 that children can accept each other without hesitation? 00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:47.079 Or do you think there's things that educators 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.140 should do to foster that learning environment 00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.900 to make it easier for children to come into those 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:55.410 programs? Yeah. So, I mean, again, ideally, at 00:31:55.410 --> 00:31:58.309 least, we need to train teachers. And maybe in 00:31:58.309 --> 00:32:01.230 these places or in these settings, even more 00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:04.549 so. I'm saying ideally because we know that, 00:32:04.650 --> 00:32:07.210 you know, unfortunately, it's not always the 00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:11.069 case. I'm being gentle here. I appreciate that. 00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:17.650 But you're right. Sometimes, and it's all over 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:21.269 the world, the people who get those jobs are 00:32:21.609 --> 00:32:24.309 really not qualified for any type of education 00:32:24.309 --> 00:32:27.730 of course many are i'm not saying you know but 00:32:27.730 --> 00:32:31.250 but we need to be so the bottom line is that 00:32:31.250 --> 00:32:34.190 training is crucial here here i'm talking about 00:32:34.190 --> 00:32:37.890 specifically about cross -cultural cross -linguistic 00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:42.349 acceptance you know just knowledge and then also 00:32:42.349 --> 00:32:45.630 some basic tools like the ones we discussed earlier 00:32:45.630 --> 00:32:49.029 to help those children right and again if you're 00:32:49.029 --> 00:32:52.359 talking about eight nine ten years old that's 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:55.619 where things become harder right so again the 00:32:55.619 --> 00:33:00.160 teachers must be there to mediate to even protect 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.779 sometimes a child is struggling with a new language 00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:07.960 yeah but to take the more optimistic side maybe 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.779 you know again we have so many ways now really 00:33:11.779 --> 00:33:15.440 it's not like it used to be maybe where it was 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:19.529 like this kind of like sacred or secret knowledge 00:33:19.529 --> 00:33:23.670 that only a few had. Everything is so, you know, 00:33:23.690 --> 00:33:28.490 it's online, some basic tricks that can change 00:33:28.490 --> 00:33:32.089 entirely the atmosphere for the whole class and 00:33:32.089 --> 00:33:35.849 specifically for those children who are not native 00:33:35.849 --> 00:33:38.250 speakers of a language. More really a matter 00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:41.970 of will, you know, and motivation. This is, I'm 00:33:41.970 --> 00:33:45.170 consulting you know, all kinds of preschools 00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:48.009 and daycare centers. And I think that this is 00:33:48.009 --> 00:33:50.849 above all the main issue. Sometimes you have 00:33:50.849 --> 00:33:54.109 great people who are just exhausted, you know, 00:33:54.150 --> 00:33:57.829 kind of lost their motivation. We're kind of 00:33:57.829 --> 00:34:01.930 drifting away now to talk about the unfair case 00:34:01.930 --> 00:34:05.609 of the status of early childhood education and 00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:11.070 the pay people get. I always tell teachers and 00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:14.110 managers, I'm here as a consultant, but believe 00:34:14.110 --> 00:34:18.150 me, I wouldn't survive a day in your job. It's 00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:22.409 so hard. It's so hard every day to go there and 00:34:22.409 --> 00:34:25.630 take care of the kids. Yeah, this brings the 00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:28.190 Forgotten EC title to a whole new level. It's 00:34:28.190 --> 00:34:32.969 funny how we talk about being essential in this 00:34:32.969 --> 00:34:36.309 field. how important early childhood is, which 00:34:36.309 --> 00:34:38.710 we know for a fact it is. But then when we get 00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:40.889 to the educators, it's it is it's kind of forgotten 00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:43.369 on who we're letting teach our children, who 00:34:43.369 --> 00:34:45.489 is teaching our children, and then the educators 00:34:45.489 --> 00:34:46.889 that are teaching our children that are really 00:34:46.889 --> 00:34:49.670 good, how we forget to appreciate and value them 00:34:49.670 --> 00:34:52.289 to what they really deserve. But you're right. 00:34:52.349 --> 00:34:55.650 That's just it's a great point. I'll never argue 00:34:55.650 --> 00:34:58.460 with that. Through your research, though, you 00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:01.980 talk, you have ed tech work. So how, we talked 00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:04.539 a little bit about AI and that, but how can AI 00:35:04.539 --> 00:35:07.519 and social robotics support early learning and 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.500 language development in ways that complement 00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:11.980 human educators, especially in before and after 00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:15.099 school care? Okay, great. So I'll start with 00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:19.519 the, again, with the positive aspect. How we 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.130 can use AI. to help child development in general 00:35:23.130 --> 00:35:25.769 and then also language learning. And then maybe 00:35:25.769 --> 00:35:29.869 later also about the risks or some concerns that 00:35:29.869 --> 00:35:32.710 I have and other people have. We should definitely 00:35:32.710 --> 00:35:36.550 touch on the risks too. So positively speaking, 00:35:36.829 --> 00:35:39.610 I'm going to give two examples from my own research. 00:35:40.030 --> 00:35:43.090 One is actually that's outside of academia. It's 00:35:43.090 --> 00:35:47.050 a startup where we're developing this language 00:35:47.050 --> 00:35:52.409 learning assistant, okay? The idea is that the 00:35:52.409 --> 00:35:56.909 robot is mediating between a very young child, 00:35:57.010 --> 00:36:00.750 we're talking about even toddlers, and an adult. 00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:04.710 Because that product is looking primarily at 00:36:04.710 --> 00:36:08.389 the Chinese market, we know that in China and 00:36:08.389 --> 00:36:12.369 many other Far East countries, it is the grandmas, 00:36:12.369 --> 00:36:15.949 grandparents who are taking care of the little 00:36:15.949 --> 00:36:19.110 ones. That's the model. That's just the way it 00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:22.989 is. And then if we want to teach English at a 00:36:22.989 --> 00:36:25.670 very young age, before school, and of course 00:36:25.670 --> 00:36:29.670 in a friendly way, a fun way, what our robot 00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:34.409 is doing is kind of like serving again as a bridge 00:36:34.409 --> 00:36:38.730 between little baby and grandma who doesn't speak 00:36:38.730 --> 00:36:42.170 English, right? So the robot needs to know Chinese 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:46.969 and English. But again, we're looking at a very 00:36:46.969 --> 00:36:50.630 young age in which we know, the language learning 00:36:50.630 --> 00:36:54.889 skill is optimal right so you don't want to wait 00:36:54.889 --> 00:36:58.650 until not even four five six years of age as 00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:02.329 we usually do to teach another language this 00:37:02.329 --> 00:37:05.210 is always always something that strikes me you 00:37:05.210 --> 00:37:09.869 know because parents teachers people who kind 00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:13.230 of design the curriculum it's like two worlds 00:37:13.230 --> 00:37:16.329 two different worlds the science says that the 00:37:16.329 --> 00:37:19.610 younger you go the easiest it is There is no 00:37:19.610 --> 00:37:22.309 problem for a child to acquire more than one 00:37:22.309 --> 00:37:25.510 language. They can acquire four or five languages 00:37:25.510 --> 00:37:29.489 even if you just give them exposure. But then 00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:32.929 when you look in most places around the world, 00:37:33.010 --> 00:37:35.489 people say, no, no, no, no, it's going to harm 00:37:35.489 --> 00:37:38.869 them. Wait, wait. But then when you wait, you 00:37:38.869 --> 00:37:42.590 lost that critical path, critical window in which 00:37:42.590 --> 00:37:46.230 they were perfectly suited to learn. another 00:37:46.230 --> 00:37:49.090 language so that's one thing that doing in a 00:37:49.090 --> 00:37:52.769 different research at cornell currently we're 00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:56.110 trying to develop a robot that is focused on 00:37:56.110 --> 00:37:59.030 not only language but social emotional skills 00:37:59.030 --> 00:38:04.050 in general and this robot again is a robo mediator 00:38:04.050 --> 00:38:08.010 okay it's not wow when people hear about a robot 00:38:08.010 --> 00:38:11.269 and a child they kind of reject the idea because 00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:13.210 they're sure that we're talking about you know 00:38:13.610 --> 00:38:15.630 Kind of like putting the child in front of the 00:38:15.630 --> 00:38:18.429 screen. So now you're pressing it with your arm. 00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:21.949 No, no, of course not. It's a triangle, okay? 00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:25.030 Child rolled with an adult. And in this specific 00:38:25.030 --> 00:38:29.190 case, we're trying to help children who are out 00:38:29.190 --> 00:38:32.449 of home for a reason, of course, taking out of 00:38:32.449 --> 00:38:35.889 home to residential care. And, of course, usually 00:38:35.889 --> 00:38:39.010 these children, even the younger ones, kind of 00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:43.070 lost trust, right, in people. Absolutely. This 00:38:43.070 --> 00:38:46.210 is a big, big task for us to kind of help them 00:38:46.210 --> 00:38:49.510 label emotions, understand their emotions, and 00:38:49.510 --> 00:38:52.769 express emotions, both with language and without 00:38:52.769 --> 00:38:56.369 it, through the robot. Okay, that's a big task 00:38:56.369 --> 00:39:00.050 now. I hope we're on a good path to achieve it. 00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:03.150 So far, it works fine with normally developing 00:39:03.150 --> 00:39:06.570 children. We tested it in Ithaca, and I'm really 00:39:06.570 --> 00:39:10.349 hopeful this is going to work with other children 00:39:10.349 --> 00:39:13.500 as well, for children at risk. Oh, my goodness. 00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:16.559 Both of these are incredible. And I mean, and 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:18.500 you talk about it so nonchalantly, like, oh, 00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:20.320 we're just building robots to help with language 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:24.980 and social. But these are huge needs, huge needs 00:39:24.980 --> 00:39:28.159 in child care and huge needs with children. Oh, 00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:30.780 that would be like, even your work is incredible 00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:34.199 to think about how we can better this socio -emotional 00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:36.300 system and this language system and how we can 00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:39.559 really keep culture alive in one through the 00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.340 use of a robot to maintain English and Chinese 00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:45.039 speaking, but also how you can foster this socio 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.500 -emotional learning for children. Like, wow. 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:57.199 No big deal though, right? Oh my goodness. And 00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.500 then you said that there's some concerns you 00:39:59.500 --> 00:40:01.860 have with AI and what that looks like. Do you 00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:04.699 want to share some of those? Yeah. So I think 00:40:04.699 --> 00:40:07.039 that the first concern is, you know, what we've 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:10.079 been seeing in the last decade or so, that is 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:14.019 kind of like this addiction, not only kids, we 00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:19.380 also, to all those gadgets and screens and stuff. 00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:22.900 And now with AI, even more so, it's really unbelievable. 00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.679 Look at videos that AI makes now. So that's, 00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.219 of course, the number one concern. But speaking 00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:32.280 more specifically about the future of language, 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:35.599 when I think about language, again, I don't think 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:38.719 just about a tool for communication. This is 00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:41.400 what most people, I think, are talking about 00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.860 intuitively when they think about language. But 00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:46.980 language is so much more than that. Language 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.760 is your identity. It's your culture. It's your 00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:53.030 memories. It's pretty much... everything you 00:40:53.030 --> 00:40:56.849 are as a human being i don't think i'm exaggerating 00:40:56.849 --> 00:40:59.170 here no i would have to agree with you and then 00:40:59.170 --> 00:41:04.610 with ai and other globalization related issues 00:41:04.610 --> 00:41:09.210 you know we may face a future and not so far 00:41:09.210 --> 00:41:12.510 away where first many languages are going to 00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:14.929 disappear because you know it's already happening 00:41:15.289 --> 00:41:17.610 English, you have Mandarin, you have Spanish, 00:41:17.730 --> 00:41:19.989 you have Arabic. One of the big languages, kind 00:41:19.989 --> 00:41:22.769 of like pushing away all those little ones. And 00:41:22.769 --> 00:41:24.670 then, you know, when the younger generation stops 00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:27.590 using language, that's it. At the end, you're 00:41:27.590 --> 00:41:30.829 left with a few old people. And when they die, 00:41:31.050 --> 00:41:33.650 it's gone. Maybe, you know, you can still preserve 00:41:33.650 --> 00:41:36.269 it digitally, but it's not the same language 00:41:36.269 --> 00:41:39.389 anymore. So that's one thing. Also, we talked 00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:42.420 earlier about how... Amazing it is sometimes 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:46.719 when you have those instant translation abilities 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.340 now. But that's also a big concern because now 00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:52.559 we're talking about a technology which already 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.820 exists, not fully powered, but it's already there. 00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:58.960 And most likely in a few months or maybe one 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.039 year, it's going to be functional where, you 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.300 know, let's say you go to Vietnam. How's your 00:42:05.300 --> 00:42:09.389 Vietnamese? Worse than my French, and my French 00:42:09.389 --> 00:42:14.449 is bad, so terrible. But you're on this amazing 00:42:14.449 --> 00:42:17.710 trip, you know, Vietnam, going to the market, 00:42:17.869 --> 00:42:21.130 and you get to this place where there's no English, 00:42:21.250 --> 00:42:24.889 no one speaks English. No problem. Why? Forget 00:42:24.889 --> 00:42:27.449 about Google Translate and all that old stuff. 00:42:27.610 --> 00:42:31.630 Now we're talking about you talking to a person 00:42:31.630 --> 00:42:35.199 in English, and they hear you. With your own 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.300 voice, speaking Vietnamese, they answer in Vietnamese, 00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:41.260 you hear them in their own voice in English. 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:44.800 And wow, okay, now no one needs to be bilingual 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:48.739 or multilingual because everything is translatable 00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:53.420 instantly, right? And for me, that's a big concern 00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:57.519 because, again, language is a whole world, right? 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.380 And there are things that I can think about and 00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:03.409 talk about in Hebrew and not in English. And 00:43:03.409 --> 00:43:06.610 vice versa, of course. It's much more than just 00:43:06.610 --> 00:43:10.190 a tool. And if we lose that, you know, and of 00:43:10.190 --> 00:43:12.429 course, not to mention all the other benefits 00:43:12.429 --> 00:43:15.750 that we now kind of know about for bilinguals 00:43:15.750 --> 00:43:18.570 and, you know, some cognitive advantages that 00:43:18.570 --> 00:43:21.710 we know that bilingual people have, this will 00:43:21.710 --> 00:43:27.489 be lost. So I hope that I'm wrong, you know. 00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:31.199 Talking about the future of language is a very 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.519 risky bet, I would say, because you know, a good 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.699 example is who would go back in time like a thousand 00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:41.880 years? What would be the dominant language of 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:46.500 the world at that time? What's your guess? Not 00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:48.400 English. I was going to say it's not English. 00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:53.960 Is it Hebrew? No, that was Latin. Latin. Yeah. 00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:57.260 And then if you would go back. and tell someone 00:43:57.260 --> 00:44:00.519 back at that time, if you know, in a few hundred 00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:03.260 years, no one's going to know Latin. No one's 00:44:03.260 --> 00:44:06.039 going to speak it, except for a few scholars. 00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.980 They would just laugh at it, right? So who knows? 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.699 Who knows what the future of language is? But 00:44:12.699 --> 00:44:15.719 that is scary, because we've talked a lot in 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:17.800 this conversation, but you're right. Language 00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:20.599 is so much more than just the words that we speak. 00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:23.400 And yeah, with this new idea of translation, 00:44:23.739 --> 00:44:27.690 not only are you risking, I mean, the odd of 00:44:27.690 --> 00:44:30.210 not being translated exactly how you mean, but 00:44:30.210 --> 00:44:34.130 you're missing the emotion and stuff behind it. 00:44:34.170 --> 00:44:35.769 You're just hearing the words that you're trying 00:44:35.769 --> 00:44:37.289 to speak in a different language and it takes 00:44:37.289 --> 00:44:39.650 out that whole cultural piece and that's hard. 00:44:40.010 --> 00:44:42.829 And also, there's such beauty in language and 00:44:42.829 --> 00:44:44.670 people learning how to speak different languages 00:44:44.670 --> 00:44:47.449 and you're also losing that. So that is, that's 00:44:47.449 --> 00:44:50.500 a little... scary but I also can understand like 00:44:50.500 --> 00:44:52.800 there are so many benefits of being able to immerse 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.659 yourself somewhere and have to being able to 00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:57.539 communicate right away so oh it is a double -edged 00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:01.539 sword that is for sure oh thank you so much for 00:45:01.539 --> 00:45:04.860 all of this do you have a message that you would 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:06.619 like to share with before and after school educators 00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:10.659 or educators that could help them support bilingual 00:45:10.659 --> 00:45:13.139 like a final message to help them support bilingual 00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.519 and multilingual children you're like so much 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:20.039 actually listen up Yeah, I think that a good, 00:45:20.179 --> 00:45:24.360 a really good way or kind of like an exercise 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:29.099 for us is to use our imagination and put ourselves 00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:32.860 in the place of that child, right? Just think 00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:36.320 about what it sounds like, what it smells like, 00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:40.400 what it looks like in a totally different environment. 00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:44.780 And again, even if you see friendly faces, smiley 00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:48.079 faces. We're not sure. So many things to think 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.760 about. And when we do that, I think that it will 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:54.360 be easier for us to show even more empathy and 00:45:54.360 --> 00:46:00.380 more patience and a bit longer hug, right? Every 00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:03.179 time they're distressed, just to understand what 00:46:03.179 --> 00:46:04.719 they're going through. Well, that's beautiful, 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:08.300 that personal piece. And keep personability alive. 00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:10.440 Understand that people are people and that we 00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.980 are all human. Like that, I think. that would 00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:15.300 go a long way in the world in general but i agree 00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:22.199 i agree completely let's start with our own little 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.840 kindergarten yes yes and then hopefully it's 00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.760 a domino effect if we teach them how to be human 00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:34.690 everyone else will just follow that's great Dr. 00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:37.329 Yarden, where can people find you if they want 00:46:37.329 --> 00:46:39.269 to reach out to you? Where can they find your 00:46:39.269 --> 00:46:41.510 research if they want to read up more about it? 00:46:41.590 --> 00:46:43.670 Or is it okay if people reach out to you? What 00:46:43.670 --> 00:46:47.769 are you... Give me your best beer about you. 00:46:48.050 --> 00:46:50.610 Yeah, I think that the first place to go would 00:46:50.610 --> 00:46:53.789 be LinkedIn, I guess. Yep. Generally speaking, 00:46:54.070 --> 00:46:57.230 you can find... Some of my research there. I'm 00:46:57.230 --> 00:47:00.269 also leading lectures all over the world. Areas 00:47:00.269 --> 00:47:02.929 that are related to children, of course, and 00:47:02.929 --> 00:47:06.250 development. Also, check out our Cornell robot, 00:47:06.389 --> 00:47:12.030 which is called Emobo. E -M -O -B -O. That's 00:47:12.030 --> 00:47:14.610 a very exciting project that I'm, again, very 00:47:14.610 --> 00:47:19.010 hopeful about. People can always email me. I 00:47:19.010 --> 00:47:20.829 can definitely share it in our show notes, for 00:47:20.829 --> 00:47:24.579 sure. Honestly, it has been such a pleasure talking 00:47:24.579 --> 00:47:28.840 to you and learning a little bit more about multilingual 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.559 and bilingual, but also about the compassion 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:36.159 behind it and your incredible moves with AI and 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:40.119 robotics and also how this all ties down to the 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:43.199 whole child and being human at the end of it. 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.780 Wow, thank you. I forgot to mention that I also 00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:49.440 published two books for children. Oh, yes, tell 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:54.489 us. One is about... a duck and a tiger and many 00:47:54.489 --> 00:47:57.630 adventures that they go through and the other 00:47:57.630 --> 00:48:00.449 is about the more recent one is about a house 00:48:00.449 --> 00:48:05.610 which is being built by you know a family until 00:48:05.610 --> 00:48:09.489 they kind of deserted they moved to a new house 00:48:09.489 --> 00:48:13.929 but this house is not gonna give up and it finds 00:48:13.929 --> 00:48:17.969 a way to chase them and to find so hopefully 00:48:18.750 --> 00:48:20.889 Next time we speak, I'm going to have the two 00:48:20.889 --> 00:48:24.650 English translations for you. Right now, it's 00:48:24.650 --> 00:48:27.690 only in Hebrew. That's incredible, though. And 00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:29.210 if you don't mind sharing those links with me, 00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:32.170 I'm definitely okay with advertising the Hebrew 00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:35.849 language of them. That's amazing. Oh, I'm excited. 00:48:36.170 --> 00:48:38.710 And yes, I would love to speak again in the future 00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:40.750 and see where this research is going and see 00:48:40.750 --> 00:48:42.630 how you're doing. And thank you. Thank you so 00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:46.260 much. Thank you, Jamie. Great. Thank you everyone 00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:49.039 for listening to the Forgotten ECE today. I cannot 00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:51.440 wait till our next episode and I hope you took 00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.840 a lot away from this episode. Have a beautiful 00:48:53.840 --> 00:49:03.099 day and stay empathetic and compassionate. Thank 00:49:03.099 --> 00:49:05.780 you. Amazing listeners for your support. Don't 00:49:05.780 --> 00:49:07.960 forget to follow me on Instagram at MissJamie 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.960 underscore R -E -C -E. Give a star rating and 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:13.380 leave a review. Have something you want to hear 00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:15.360 about in relation to before and after school 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:18.300 programs or full day summer camp? DM me or comment. 00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:21.000 Again, thank you so much and happy learning.