WEBVTT 00:00:01.700 --> 00:00:07.219 Hello. And welcome back to the forgotten ECE. 00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:10.199 Okay, that's I was going to try something new, 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:13.240 but that sounds silly. But here we are. Hi, I 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.460 missed you. I hope you miss me too. I know you 00:00:16.460 --> 00:00:21.079 did. It's okay. You can admit it. Um, wow, it 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:26.050 is all ready February. It is like Halfway through 00:00:26.050 --> 00:00:28.690 February, easily halfway through February. It 00:00:28.690 --> 00:00:32.530 is halfway through February and this is only 00:00:32.530 --> 00:00:34.689 my second episode. I'm so sorry. It's gonna get 00:00:34.689 --> 00:00:37.490 better from here on out because I keep promising 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:39.149 you that and I keep not following through, but 00:00:39.149 --> 00:00:40.689 this isn't a promise. I'm just gonna tell you 00:00:40.689 --> 00:00:42.829 the way it is. So it's gonna get better from 00:00:42.829 --> 00:00:44.649 here on out. So I'm glad you're listening and 00:00:44.649 --> 00:00:49.109 I'm glad you tuned in today because I have a 00:00:49.109 --> 00:00:52.429 new episode, second episode of season three. 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:54.960 Can you believe that we're on season three? three 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.479 at the Forgotten ECE. I cannot believe it. Thank 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:00.520 you so much for listening. Thank you so much 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.399 for, you know, hanging out with me and still 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:05.640 paying attention when I release new episodes, 00:01:05.780 --> 00:01:08.760 even though it's sporadic. I do truly appreciate 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.799 you. But today without further ado, we're going 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:16.599 to talk about the independence of schoolagers. 00:01:16.900 --> 00:01:29.459 Hang tight. Welcome to the Forgotten ECE. The 00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:31.700 show where before and after school educators, 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.739 summer camp and PD staff and CYWs have a place 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:38.620 where they are seen, heard, and valued. I'm your 00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:41.480 host, Jamie Wakeler, and I am so excited you're 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:57.109 here. Okay. Can we just say the thing out loud. 00:01:57.329 --> 00:01:59.969 I'm going to say it. Moving from preschool to 00:01:59.969 --> 00:02:04.370 school age is an identity crisis. Honestly, going 00:02:04.370 --> 00:02:08.009 from being in a college for early child education 00:02:08.009 --> 00:02:10.129 or a university program for early child education 00:02:10.129 --> 00:02:12.270 and then moving into a school age program, it 00:02:12.270 --> 00:02:14.469 is really an identity crisis because you're learning 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:18.490 so... Holistically about preschool, toddler, 00:02:18.750 --> 00:02:21.530 infant, children, maybe kindergarten, you very 00:02:21.530 --> 00:02:23.990 rarely touch on school age and what that looks 00:02:23.990 --> 00:02:28.210 like. In preschool, you are needed constantly. 00:02:28.689 --> 00:02:30.330 Trust me, that's why I didn't last in preschool 00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:33.389 very long. Someone needs help opening yogurt. 00:02:33.750 --> 00:02:36.710 Someone is crying. Someone forgot how sleeves 00:02:36.710 --> 00:02:40.349 work. Someone is emotionally unraveling because 00:02:40.349 --> 00:02:44.439 the blue cup is gone. These are big problems, 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:49.099 and you matter every 42 seconds of the day, probably 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:51.319 more than that. Then you move into school age, 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:56.000 and suddenly no one needs help with their yogurt, 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:58.620 not usually, maybe at the beginning. No one wants 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:02.180 your crafts. And when you say, hey people, when 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:05.639 you say, hey, I set up an activity, they say, 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:11.219 and no thanks. Six, seven. i don't know what 00:03:11.219 --> 00:03:15.340 else they're saying that's all i got um excuse 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:17.719 me i used to be essential that's how you'd be 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:21.419 feeling that's how i feel excuse me hi me remember 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:24.159 me your teacher your favorite person remember 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:27.099 me please don't forget about me but now they're 00:03:27.099 --> 00:03:29.000 building forts and ignoring me what happened 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.639 well i like to call it the independent shock 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:36.659 you go from central to this room to I appear 00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:38.919 to be optional. And if you don't understand development, 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:42.159 that can feel personal and almost as if you're 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.639 being attacked. It can feel like I'm not engaging 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.000 enough. It can feel like I'm not good at this. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.860 It can feel like they don't like what I plan 00:03:51.860 --> 00:03:53.979 and do they even need me here? When you start 00:03:53.979 --> 00:03:55.919 second guessing whether or not you should be 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.039 a school age educator, well, listen, just because 00:03:58.039 --> 00:03:59.780 they don't need you the same way preschoolers 00:03:59.780 --> 00:04:03.020 did. doesn't mean that they don't need you. It's 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:05.479 developmentally appropriate for them to be different 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:08.699 in that way. So what actually changes? What's 00:04:08.699 --> 00:04:11.340 grounded in science for a second? Self -determination 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:14.819 theory developed by DC and Ryan tells us that 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:19.379 humans are motivated by three core psychological 00:04:19.379 --> 00:04:23.040 needs. Do you remember what they are? Quiz time. 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:29.050 One, autonomy. Two. competence and three relatedness. 00:04:29.529 --> 00:04:31.959 So first autonomy. I get to choose what I want 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.699 to do. Competence. I feel capable to make those 00:04:34.699 --> 00:04:37.060 choices and to do what I want to do. And last 00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:39.759 relatedness is I belong. So for preschoolers, 00:04:39.819 --> 00:04:42.660 they're still building basic regulation and attachment 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:46.100 systems. Their autonomy is emerging, but it's 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:49.680 fragile. They still need adult scaffolding constantly. 00:04:50.420 --> 00:04:52.540 School age kids on the other hand. Oh, sorry. 00:04:52.699 --> 00:04:54.420 I should say children. I got yelled at the other 00:04:54.420 --> 00:04:58.160 day for posting my thing and saying kids. So 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:02.379 I apologize. Fixing that now. School age children, 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.019 their autonomy drive has ex -beloaded. They're 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:08.660 wired to choose their friends, to choose their 00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:11.220 activities, to test their independence, to test 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:14.199 your patience, and to develop personal identity 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.459 all at the same time. So when they ignore your 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:19.860 carefully planned slime station, whom I kidding, 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.139 no one would ignore slime. Slime's the greatest. 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:26.410 It's not disrespect. and it's not to hurt your 00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.149 feelings, it's autonomy. And autonomy is a sign 00:05:29.149 --> 00:05:32.589 of healthy development. I hear so many people 00:05:32.589 --> 00:05:36.089 when I consult say they just want to do their 00:05:36.089 --> 00:05:39.500 own thing. Yeah, you're correct. That's the point. 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.740 Between the ages of four and 12, children shift 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:46.139 from this adult oriented attachment to peer oriented 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:48.620 social development. Their nervous system isn't 00:05:48.620 --> 00:05:51.600 scanning for you the way it used to. It's scanning 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.040 for, okay, who's in my group? What's our idea 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.899 for the next little bit? How do I fit in here? 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:00.199 How do I not say something that's going to make 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.959 them laugh at me or I'm in a funny mood. I want 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.860 them to laugh. What can I say to make it funny 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:07.699 here? If you're still running the room like a 00:06:07.699 --> 00:06:11.040 preschool, whole group directions, everyone rotating, 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:14.560 teacher led flow. You're going to feel constant 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:16.620 friction. And honestly, it's for the best because 00:06:16.620 --> 00:06:18.680 that is not what is developmentally appropriate. 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:21.839 Development here has moved forward. It's time 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.399 for you to do the same. It's time for the programming 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:27.720 to catch up. And I mean that in the nicest way, 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:29.959 please don't take offense. So the other thing 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:33.100 that comes hand in hand with this is putting 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.879 out materials for crafts or thinking about activities 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.040 to do and They've rejected the craft rejection 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.000 trauma. We're going to talk about it for a moment. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.959 You spend time setting up the table to look nice. 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.620 You're labeled bins, your Pinterest level organization. 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.079 You announce it. Hey, y 'all, we're going to 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:55.259 do a free, full art. It's here on the table. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.589 Help yourself silence. One child walks over and 00:06:58.589 --> 00:07:01.889 looks at it and says, uh, do we have to do this? 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:05.269 Ooh, that one hit hard. Here's the reframe. Your 00:07:05.269 --> 00:07:08.870 job in school age programming is not to produce 00:07:08.870 --> 00:07:12.029 participation. It is to produce possibility. 00:07:12.329 --> 00:07:15.810 If two children engage deeply for 30 minutes, 00:07:15.970 --> 00:07:18.769 that's a success. They can take it wherever they 00:07:18.769 --> 00:07:22.449 want to go. It is their choice and you're providing 00:07:22.449 --> 00:07:25.189 them a safe place to take those risks and to 00:07:25.189 --> 00:07:29.509 work on those. choices to develop that autonomy 00:07:29.509 --> 00:07:33.490 there's depth over volume in this preschool success 00:07:33.490 --> 00:07:36.569 looks like everyone did it or everyone had fun 00:07:36.569 --> 00:07:39.310 school age success looks like some children extended 00:07:39.310 --> 00:07:41.790 it and it got to go into a project we got to 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:45.089 try something new they led this and we got to 00:07:45.089 --> 00:07:48.089 see where it goes oh the other thing offering 00:07:48.089 --> 00:07:52.149 versus directing this this will take some philosophical 00:07:52.149 --> 00:07:54.910 shifting If you're in old school preschool days, 00:07:54.970 --> 00:07:56.269 which you really shouldn't be, but if you are 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:58.189 and you're saying, everyone come to the carpet. 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:00.810 We're doing this together. And then you try that 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:02.750 with school majors. It's not going to, it's not 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:05.029 going to be interested. It's not going to go 00:08:05.029 --> 00:08:07.649 over. Well, school language is I set up a challenge 00:08:07.649 --> 00:08:10.910 at the table. If anyone's interested, I'm curious 00:08:10.910 --> 00:08:13.230 what you've built with this. Let me see what 00:08:13.230 --> 00:08:16.290 you're doing. Offering communicates respect. 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:20.970 Directing communicates control. And here's something. 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:26.120 a bit uncomfy. If we felt anxious when they don't 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:29.740 comply, that's about our need for control, not 00:08:29.740 --> 00:08:34.639 their need for growth. So sorry. That's big because 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.799 autonomy supportive environments again backed 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:40.840 by this self -determination research. I'm not 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:45.259 just yelling I have a point produces higher intrinsic 00:08:45.259 --> 00:08:48.500 motivation better problem -solving and stronger 00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:52.639 long -term engagement Compliance produces what? 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:56.120 Short -term order, we don't want that. We want 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.220 autonomy. We want children to make choices and 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:01.039 be free to pick on what they want to do, to choose 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.580 their activities, to follow their interests and 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:05.899 their leads and make a safe place for them to 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:09.259 do that. So, I know what you're thinking. What 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:12.700 am I supposed to do all day then? Ah! the existential 00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:17.059 crisis portion of the episode. If you're not 00:09:17.059 --> 00:09:18.940 directing, if you're not leading group time, 00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:21.639 if you're not planning, quote unquote, crafts, 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:23.679 if you're not helping tying shoes, what's your 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:26.500 role? Well, here's the shift and here's what 00:09:26.500 --> 00:09:30.100 my favorite part is. You now move from the performer 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:33.259 to the architect. You design the environments. 00:09:33.620 --> 00:09:36.299 You observe the group dynamics. You coach social 00:09:36.299 --> 00:09:40.120 problem solving. You scaffold executive functioning. 00:09:40.649 --> 00:09:43.029 And then you help them reflect on that. School 00:09:43.029 --> 00:09:46.250 -age educators are mentors, not cruise directors. 00:09:46.789 --> 00:09:48.730 You're building conditions where the children 00:09:48.730 --> 00:09:52.450 get to practice no negotiation. They handle boredom. 00:09:52.750 --> 00:09:54.789 They resolve conflict. They manage frustration. 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:59.350 They initiate ideas. That is the complex developmental 00:09:59.350 --> 00:10:02.750 work. It's just quieter than you're used to. 00:10:03.309 --> 00:10:05.470 Children are taking what they're learning in 00:10:05.470 --> 00:10:07.850 our programs and they're going out and being 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:10.809 incredible humans. They're being kind. They're 00:10:10.809 --> 00:10:14.190 being confident. They take risks. They get messy. 00:10:14.750 --> 00:10:17.889 They make mistakes. And they learn from them 00:10:17.889 --> 00:10:20.549 because you provide them a safe place to do that. 00:10:20.669 --> 00:10:22.850 And they think it's okay because it is okay. 00:10:23.029 --> 00:10:25.509 And that's what you want. Now let's get a little 00:10:25.509 --> 00:10:29.070 practical because autonomy does not mean chaos. 00:10:29.629 --> 00:10:32.250 It means a structured freedom. And this is how 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:35.330 that works. First, plan in layers. You don't 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:38.129 want to overwhelm yourself or the schoolagers. 00:10:38.649 --> 00:10:41.190 Always have open -ended materials available. 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:44.509 Add optional invitations. Create long -term project 00:10:44.509 --> 00:10:48.389 options. Not everything has to be an event, but 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:50.750 base these invitations off what you've noticed 00:10:50.750 --> 00:10:54.610 in the classroom. Two, soft launch ideas. You 00:10:54.610 --> 00:10:56.490 don't have to announce everything like it's an 00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:59.210 assembly. Just set it up and let curiosity do 00:10:59.210 --> 00:11:01.750 its work. Let them explore. Let them see how 00:11:01.750 --> 00:11:04.269 to use the materials you've brought for them. 00:11:04.529 --> 00:11:07.929 Next, build from their interest if they're obsessed 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:10.750 with pokemon use it are people still obsessed 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:13.350 with pokemon they must be i i feel like i've 00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:14.549 been out of practice i'm not out of practice 00:11:14.549 --> 00:11:18.149 probability games card designs character writing 00:11:18.149 --> 00:11:22.450 tournament brackets budget math for trading you're 00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:24.929 not chasing these trends you're leveraging them 00:11:24.929 --> 00:11:27.669 for motivation when i was in the school age program 00:11:27.669 --> 00:11:32.009 uh last year we we're super excited about fortnight 00:11:32.009 --> 00:11:34.149 whether or not it was developmentally appropriate 00:11:34.149 --> 00:11:36.610 for them to be playing fortnight at home not 00:11:36.610 --> 00:11:39.950 my problem their families but i knew they were 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.450 interested so we ended up making our own fortnight 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:46.690 characters and designed a battlefield for them 00:11:46.690 --> 00:11:50.210 to battle royale now it only lasted about a week 00:11:50.210 --> 00:11:52.470 well i shouldn't say only it lasted about a week 00:11:52.470 --> 00:11:54.629 which was incredible and it could have gone further 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.480 We could have made it into a 3D model. We could 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.120 have made their characters into 3D models. We 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.340 could have used a kiln or air -drying clay and 00:12:04.340 --> 00:12:07.120 then painted them and then battled. Throw on 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.220 some Beyblades and you have yourself a date. 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.539 Last and possibly most important thing that you 00:12:12.539 --> 00:12:16.620 can do to help plan without control is redefine 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:18.899 what success is to you. Instead of looking at 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.779 it as how many participated, think about who 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:24.379 went deep within. Think about what social skills 00:12:24.429 --> 00:12:26.669 were emerging. Think about what conflicts were 00:12:26.669 --> 00:12:29.549 navigated and who invited who to play. There's 00:12:29.549 --> 00:12:32.470 growth that lives here. You just have to be able 00:12:32.470 --> 00:12:35.129 to find it. Open your eyes and see it. It might 00:12:35.129 --> 00:12:37.490 not look like it did in preschool, but it's there 00:12:37.490 --> 00:12:40.629 now. The emotional truth. Let's get emotional. 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:44.500 emotional. Okay, sorry. Here's what's really 00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:47.440 happening underneath all of this. In preschool 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.320 or in college and university when you were learning, 00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:53.440 you felt needed. In school age, you have to be 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.659 intentional. An intentional impact doesn't always 00:12:56.659 --> 00:12:59.700 feel emotionally loud, but don't confuse the 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:02.259 quiet for unimportant because when a nine -year 00:13:02.259 --> 00:13:04.960 -old comes to you for advice instead of tattling, 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.080 that's growth. And when a group negotiates rules 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.230 without you stepping in, that's development. 00:13:11.669 --> 00:13:14.269 When they reject your activity, but later borrow 00:13:14.269 --> 00:13:17.070 materials to adapt it, that's autonomy. They 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:18.970 might not need you to open their yogurt anymore, 00:13:19.049 --> 00:13:20.950 but they need you to help them become people. 00:13:21.070 --> 00:13:23.549 And that is so much bigger. If you're in this 00:13:23.549 --> 00:13:26.289 transition right now and you're thinking, I miss 00:13:26.289 --> 00:13:29.309 being needed, I get it. I'm not telling you your 00:13:29.309 --> 00:13:31.210 feelings are wrong because they're not. It is 00:13:31.210 --> 00:13:33.450 a hard adjustment, but here's how you can reframe 00:13:33.450 --> 00:13:36.210 that. They don't need you the way the preschoolers 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:39.350 did. They need you in a way that prepares them 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:42.179 for the rest of their lives. Question isn't why 00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:45.000 don't they want my activity? The question is, 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.580 am I creating a space where autonomy, competence 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:50.559 and belonging and curiosity can grow? Because 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.080 when those needs are met, you won't have to chase 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.139 engagement. It'll show up on its own. Thank you 00:13:56.139 --> 00:13:59.620 so, so much for listening. If you have any questions 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:02.320 or comments about today's episode, please feel 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.399 free to reach out. And if you're feeling this 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.320 emotional tug, I would be happy to chat with 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.799 you about it. Have a wonderful day and until 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:19.139 next time, happy learning. 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