WEBVTT

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in classrooms and care centers across the nation.

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A quiet revolution is unfolding. They build the

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foundations of tomorrow, yet their names are

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rarely known. The forgotten ECs across Canada

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takes you into the heart of their world, powerful,

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unseen, unforgettable. It's time to honor the

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educators who've always been there, even when

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no one's watching. Join me on today's episode.

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Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where

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before and after school educators, summer camp

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and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they

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are seen, heard, and valued. I'm your host, Jamie

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Wakeler, and I am so excited you're here. Hello

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and welcome back to the Forgotten ECE. I'm so

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excited about today's episode. This has been

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a project I've been working on for a while. My

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goal is to talk to the wonderful early child

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educators that are in before and after school

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programs all across Canada. And my first, I'm

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so excited, my first guest is all the way from

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British Columbia, Kayleigh. Thank you so much

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for being here. Oh, thanks so much for having

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me, Jamie. Oh, you're so welcome. Why don't you

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start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

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Absolutely. So as Jamie said, my name is Kaylee

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Burton. I use the pronouns she and they. I have

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a master's of early childhood education from

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UBC. I graduated in 2023. That's so great. I

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know. Thank you. It was such a long time coming,

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especially during the pandemic. I had to. Changed

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my research a lot to try to suit, you know, not

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being in person with kids and trying to do research

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with children when you're not in person is even

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more difficult. So nowadays I'm working actually

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in two before and after school programs. One

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is in Vancouver and one is in Richmond. One of

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the programs is licensed and one is unlicensed.

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So I kind of have a bit of, you know, experience

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with both. both types of programming. Both these

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programs are situated on the traditional territory

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of the Coast Salish peoples, including the Musqueam,

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the Squamish, and the Tsleil -Waututh nations.

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And I mention that because I am a settler and,

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you know, I try to bring as many indigenous teachings

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that have been shared with me into my work. And

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I also have been doing regular substitute teaching

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at a daycare in Vancouver as well. So I kind

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of wear a lot of hats right now. I've been doing

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a research project with the Coalition of Child

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Care Advocates of BC as well about flexible childcare

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and one of the actual types of flexible childcare

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that we're thinking about more is before and

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after school programming. So I like to keep busy,

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but I'm very passionate about the field. And

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yeah, I've been working with before and after

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school age groups for about four years now. So

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yeah, it's been very rewarding and it's been

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great to, you know, learn a bit about you as

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well and see the work that you're doing with

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those age groups too. So. Aw, thank you. Wow.

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You are busy. That's incredible though. The work

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you're doing, it matters so much. So good for

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you for dipping your toes in all of it. Like

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I just, I think that's one of the benefits of

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being in before and after school that is you

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have time to. to see what else is out there and

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see where you can make a difference while also

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making a difference in the before and after school

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program. So that's awesome. Yeah, I agree. Actually,

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like the hours are really good for having other

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work. So yeah, it allows me to be able to do

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like my research or to do like other projects

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that are important to me related to early childhood

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education. So that is one benefit. Absolutely.

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Before and after school care. So being in a licensed

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and unlicensed, that's incredible because we

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get a taste of all of it now. What is the structures

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different? Like is it, what's the flexibility

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like? What do the hours look like? Yeah. So it's

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been, it's been interesting because I mean, I

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think there is a perception that if it's unlicensed,

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it's somehow lower quality, but I don't think

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that's necessarily true. I think there's a lot

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of ways that you could still meet licensing standards,

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but be unlicensed. And especially in BC, a lot

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of before and after school programming is unlicensed

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because they're trying to meet a need in the

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community. So part of that has to do with funding

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and part of it has to do with just there's not

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that many spots available. And if there is license

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before and after school care, it's typically

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run out of a school itself, like an elementary

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school. So then whatever childcare program is.

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creating that space for the children also is

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in collaboration with the school and is able

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to use the school space as the location. So those

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partnerships typically can only exist if there's

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been a relationship for a long time, right? But

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some parents are so desperate for care that they

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are looking at unlicensed childcare because they

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do need their kids to have somewhere to go in

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the hours that they're in school. And like in

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Richmond, elementary school ends at 2 .45. So

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that's really hard for a lot of families to meet

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the pickup time. So yeah, it's really interesting.

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I feel like unlicensed and after school is trying

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to meet a need in the community here, at least

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in the lower mainland, but it's also very expensive.

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for that reason, right? It's for profit. So yeah,

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so there's like a few different things to think

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about. The license program that I work at though

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in Vancouver is in a very old elementary school

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and we have 67 children enrolled. So it's K to

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seven here. 67. Yeah, it's a huge program. Like

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there's so many children and there's a long wait

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list. So these are, you know, kids who have typically

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started in kindergarten and will stay in the

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program until they're old enough to either not

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want to be in the program or can walk home by

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themselves. Yeah, so basically what we do is

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we are in the school setting and then we have

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a lot of modular furniture and materials that

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we pack up and put away during the regular school

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day. Luckily, we can leave it set up overnight

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for the before care part of the day. And I would

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say way less kids use that care. It's not 67

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in the morning. I would say me half. And then

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we pack it all up. The kids help us. We do the

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big clean before they go to regular class. And

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then around two o 'clock, all the staff come

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back and we set everything up again. But we have

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three books that we use in the school for that.

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So like that is incredible that we have that

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space. And so it's only kids who go to that school.

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That program is very play based. So we do a lot

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of arts and sports activities, plus the kids

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love to be outside. So we don't take them into

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the courtyard or there's two playgrounds at that

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school. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. This,

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this program is like, it's truly remarkable.

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And it's like been a really wonderful place to

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work as well. One thing that's really cool too,

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is like to teach responsibility and independence.

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The grades four to sevens get something called

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intermittent. and that means they get half an

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hour right when this when the bell rings they

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have to come check in with us but then they can

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go on intermittent for 30 minutes they tell us

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where they're going and then they can spend time

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by themselves with a friend or in group of other

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kids who have intermittent and yeah it's really

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awesome because they're typically very responsible

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about being back at the time like half an hour

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later and if they're not then they get a warning

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but usually like it's it's a privilege they don't

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want to like lose so they're actually quite good

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about it and it's good it teaches leadership

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right and and helps them get ready for like you

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know being an older grade setting a good example

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yeah so the other thing with this one is we do

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have pro d day like full day care spring break

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and summer camp there's no winter camp at this

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one and Yeah, that's the like this program. I

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think it's like incredible. It's incredible what

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we offer. And it's been subsidized in BC. So

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there's like a, it's called CCFRI, or Stammers

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for Child Care Fee Reduction Initiative. And

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that means like parents pay way less fees for

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this program, although it is still, you know,

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a couple hundred dollars a month. Wow. I think

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it's fantastic in a lot of ways for these kids

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and like. They get to spend time with their friends

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who maybe they don't play with during a regular

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school day too. So it's like a different sense

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of community almost. Oh my gosh. There's so much

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to unpack there. That's incredible. Both places

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that you work sound amazing. So for the unlicensed

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place. So our unlicensed places are generally

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out of houses. Is that the same for you? Like,

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is it out of someone's house? No, actually the

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unlicensed program I work is at like a... a separate

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location, but it does not have an outdoor space.

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Like we're walking distance of a few playgrounds,

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but there's no immediately connected outdoor

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space. That's so interesting that it's out of

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like homes in Ontario. Yeah. So, uh, our unlicensed

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child care is actually run out of people's houses.

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As far as, as far as I know, if someone would

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come on and be like, Oh, you're wrong. Please

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listen to them. But for as far as, for as long

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as I am aware, And for as far as I know that

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they're all out of houses and we're on licensed

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child care can only have five children in it.

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And if people have their own children, so like

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I have two of my own kids, they have to count

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in that ratio. So that cuts back how many kids

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I can have. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. This

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is part of why I was so excited to be on this

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podcast because every province has such different

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regulations and things about this. So like, it's

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just so interesting to hear about because the

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unlicensed place where I work, like we have four

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classrooms. Yeah, and there's 32 children enrolled

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in that program. What? Yeah, there's no before

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school, it's just after school and we go and

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we pick them up, like the teachers walk and pick

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up the kids from the schools that are close by.

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And that ratio, like that amount of students

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meets like the business license. criteria and

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like the casting regulation of the space. So.

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Wow. It's a bit different. There are in -home

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childcare programs that are licensed and they

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have like smaller groups, like what you're describing

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in BC. But this, this program is like, I think

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there are a few different after -school programs

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like this one. And it, yeah, it's from like 3

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PM to about 6 PM. Yes, we're supposed to be picked

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up by 6 and. This program is much more academic

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than the license program that I work at. This

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one has like lots of language classes that we

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do, English, Chinese, and we do arts and STEM

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classes. Yeah. So for me personally, as an educator,

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it's actually really nice to work at two different

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programs, one that's more play -based and open

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-ended and then this other one that's more academic.

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Wow. Yeah, and this program too, like we do Pro

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-D days for the children. We do winter, spring,

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and summer camp. But in terms of like parallel

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to licensing, it's like a multi -age occasional

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childcare parameters, I would say. But like we

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still do have one educator for every eight children

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because there are no children like under 36 months.

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Got it. Okay. Yeah, but it's very much based

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on like the city of Richmond and not like BC

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child care licensing. Okay. For the unlicensed,

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you said your ratio is one to eight. And then

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what about for your licensed? For licensed, we

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have one like educator and in BC, it can be a

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responsible adult. You don't need to have your

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early childhood educator. You can just be a responsible

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adult. So for that one, it's for every 12 kids.

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One adult for every 12 kids who are kindergarten

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and grade one, or if they're older children,

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like grade two and up, it can be one educator

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for 15 kids. Okay. So similar. We have for our

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license, we have for JK, SK, because I don't

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know if it's the same for you. Is your kindergarten

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split up between JK and SK? No. Oh my gosh. Okay.

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So our kindergarten is split up into two years.

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So the first year they're in junior kindergarten,

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the second year they're in senior kindergarten.

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We are one to 13 for those kids. And then for

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school ages, so grade one up, it's one to 15.

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It's the same. Oh, okay. Yeah. Junior kindergarten.

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I would not say that's a thing out here as much.

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Like some places will brand themselves as a junior

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kindergarten, but I wouldn't say that like people

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really know what that is. It's more like you

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would go to daycare or preschool. Oh, yeah. Okay.

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So yeah, we would go you would go to preschool

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here and then you would go to school, but you

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would go to school for two years of kindergarten.

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I didn't know that. Yeah, it's relevantly new.

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I guess I'm old. So it's actually not that new.

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Like when I was a kid, we only had half day kindergartens

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and then they went into every other full day.

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And now they're doing full days, but half for

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one year is JK and then one year. It's I think

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it's I think overall and I could be wrong also.

00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.220
It's just to get children into the school system

00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:47.210
a little bit earlier for families. Right. Yeah.

00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:49.730
Well, families do need that childcare if they're

00:13:49.730 --> 00:13:53.450
going to work, right? So. Yes. Yes. There are

00:13:53.450 --> 00:13:56.210
half -day kindergarten programs here, but I think

00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:59.049
it's more common to have full day, but it's just

00:13:59.049 --> 00:14:00.970
for the one year and then you go to grade one.

00:14:01.330 --> 00:14:05.269
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting. So

00:14:05.269 --> 00:14:08.389
what made you choose childcare and what made

00:14:08.389 --> 00:14:10.269
you choose like getting your master's in early

00:14:10.269 --> 00:14:14.309
child education and has landed you in these awesome

00:14:14.309 --> 00:14:17.759
centers that you're working at? Okay, well I

00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.039
wanted to do a master's degree. I don't know.

00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.000
I really wanted to do research with children

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.860
and I wanted to basically just keep learning

00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:29.500
more about like child development and my focus

00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:33.500
when I did my bachelor's was social justice studies

00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:36.539
like gender and race and sexuality and social

00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:38.679
justice studies and when I finished that program

00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.759
I felt like I needed to do more like applying

00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:45.299
that to early learning spaces, like trying to

00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:48.419
figure out how to teach kids about these complicated

00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:51.759
topics in a way that they'll understand and that

00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.659
is relevant to their lives. It's easy to think

00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:57.639
about these things in university, but actually

00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.419
teaching it to a three -year -old is different.

00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:03.159
So I wanted to do a masters for that reason.

00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:05.940
And then one of the things was when I started

00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:09.529
my program, I took an additional course. to make

00:15:09.529 --> 00:15:12.230
sure I could apply for my early childhood educator

00:15:12.230 --> 00:15:14.750
assistant license so that I could start working

00:15:14.750 --> 00:15:18.269
in child care. So that helped me to get into

00:15:18.269 --> 00:15:20.960
the field, I would say, on the floor. I started

00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.179
working at the unlicensed center because the

00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:27.519
hours worked with my university schedule and

00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.759
it gave me a lot of really good classroom experience,

00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:33.919
which was great. Like I was able to try out pretty

00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.320
much anything that I wanted to try with the kids.

00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:39.440
I learned good classroom management skills. The

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.100
hours were really flexible to do before and after

00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:44.740
school care, which was something that I needed

00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:48.289
with my studies. And then I think because school

00:15:48.289 --> 00:15:51.610
age, like it includes early childhood education,

00:15:51.889 --> 00:15:54.389
right? Like it's technically ECE is up to grade

00:15:54.389 --> 00:15:57.309
three, like age nine. So I felt like I was still

00:15:57.309 --> 00:15:59.929
getting that experience. But then like as an

00:15:59.929 --> 00:16:02.970
educator, it's really nice to be versatile and

00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:05.950
teaching older age groups too. So that's something

00:16:05.950 --> 00:16:07.889
I really like because sometimes I'm with the

00:16:07.889 --> 00:16:10.230
kindergartners and that's a very different style

00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:13.029
of teaching and dealing with grade five and six

00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:15.750
kids, right? And I like being able to jump back

00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:18.009
and forth between those age groups. Like, it

00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:20.610
makes me feel like I'm actually, like, a strong

00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:24.049
educator, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, and you are,

00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:25.830
like, there's no one off the street that can

00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:28.009
come and do what we do. Because, and that's to

00:16:28.009 --> 00:16:29.830
say, like, even when you have a room full of

00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:32.509
children that are from kindergarten to grade

00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:35.850
five, you're able to create activities that are

00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:37.990
good for the kindergarten child and the grade

00:16:37.990 --> 00:16:40.730
five child. how you expand and how you explain

00:16:40.730 --> 00:16:42.990
it and how you let them do the activities. Like

00:16:42.990 --> 00:16:44.590
there's different ways and there's so much more

00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:46.330
to it. And that's, that's one of the other things

00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:48.090
I want to bring through with the Forgotten ACE

00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:50.450
is that there is so much more to these programs

00:16:50.450 --> 00:16:53.570
and people understand. So no, you say that. Absolutely.

00:16:54.129 --> 00:16:56.330
Absolutely. You are the indicator if you can

00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:59.509
do that. Yeah. Cause you have to plan an activity,

00:16:59.789 --> 00:17:02.090
but then gear it up for the older kids, gear

00:17:02.090 --> 00:17:05.329
it down, somehow get those kids to interact with

00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:08.150
each other and like. like learn from each other

00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:10.329
while you're doing these activities too like

00:17:10.329 --> 00:17:12.990
it is a very different skill teaching them all

00:17:12.990 --> 00:17:15.750
the age and I like it I like that it keeps me

00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.630
on my toes in that way and like it's very clear

00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.450
if the activity is not like if the older kids

00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:24.210
are just not into it it's no obvious right and

00:17:24.210 --> 00:17:27.089
they let you know yeah it's like oh okay cool

00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:29.549
that's a good learning moment for me to improve

00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:32.099
these these things I'm trying to plan And then

00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:35.099
the other thing is like, I love working with

00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:37.900
children. Like I just, I find it very rewarding

00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:40.599
and very challenging. So I also, even though

00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:43.099
I have my masters, I had to go and take other

00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:46.079
courses to become licensed as an early childhood

00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.079
educator. There's a lot of bureaucracy in BC

00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.680
around that. So I have my ECE now. And part of

00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.140
why I wanted to get that was because we have

00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:58.460
a wage enhancement program in BC. So the government

00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:02.019
tops up our hourly rate. If you work in a licensed

00:18:02.019 --> 00:18:05.339
center, so that's only for licensed. But that

00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:07.900
was another reason that I wanted to work at both

00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:11.920
programs was the unlicensed center. Nothing like

00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.500
government funded applies to that. So it's very

00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:17.779
much what the employer will pay the educator.

00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:22.140
Whereas licensed, they can have their wage and

00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:24.759
this, you know, this place is unionized. So that's,

00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.559
I'm very lucky that way. But then. There's the

00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:31.059
government top up, which in BC is $6 an hour

00:18:31.059 --> 00:18:34.859
right now. Six dollars an hour. Okay. My Ontario

00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:36.619
friends, if you're listening, did you hear that?

00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.119
Six dollars an hour. So our wage enhancement

00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.140
right now, where I work, we're in Ontario, is

00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:46.279
$2 .20. Right? Like it's... And yeah, so it's

00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:49.619
like, it's great if the center is already offering

00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:52.920
a decent wage. There has been some complications

00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.400
and other childcare centers where they've lowered

00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:58.779
the hourly rate because of the top up, but the

00:18:58.779 --> 00:19:02.599
top up is not a permanent solution for educator

00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.359
wages. And it's only because the NDP government

00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.420
is in charge right now. So we had a provincial

00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:12.119
election a few months ago, and that was very

00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.579
much an issue for a lot of educators. bit worried,

00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.759
right? That it would be reduced or removed. So

00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.700
yeah, so it's precarious. That's one of the downsides

00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:27.000
of this field is the wages. But that's not why

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.740
I went into it, I guess. Like it is and it isn't.

00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:33.180
So I keep advocating for more awareness and,

00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:36.000
you know, better pay around that. But it is very

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.099
much like the hours are great. The people who

00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:42.059
are in afterschool programs bring great energy

00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:45.890
to the work. Yeah, it's a lot of new experiences.

00:19:46.009 --> 00:19:47.930
You get to try out different activities. You

00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:51.990
get to go on field trips during camp. There's

00:19:51.990 --> 00:19:54.230
a lot of things I really enjoy about it. Oh,

00:19:54.269 --> 00:19:56.509
no, that's awesome. Thinking about the funding,

00:19:56.630 --> 00:19:57.990
I'm going to go back there for a second because

00:19:57.990 --> 00:20:01.579
you talked about... the acronym that involves

00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:04.480
cheaper childcare for families? Yeah, so there's

00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.740
a few different sort of government initiatives

00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:10.700
right now. The big one in BC is the $10 a day

00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:13.339
program. Yes. So in my work with the Coalition

00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:15.859
of Child Care Advocates, that's the main funding

00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:19.559
model that we're trying to expand in BC. What's

00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:23.339
interesting is most day, like a lot of the $10

00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:26.200
day programs that exist are daycares for three

00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.160
to five. There are a few before and after school

00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.519
programs that have that funding, but it's quite

00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.000
rare. It's something that like we're looking

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:40.279
to expand in BC, but right now it's kind of unfortunate

00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.759
because the $10 a day program was gaining a lot

00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.960
of momentum the last few years, but right now

00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.809
it's stalled if not moving backwards. So a lot

00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:52.849
of daycares are like not making the criteria,

00:20:53.089 --> 00:20:55.369
the amount of paperwork you need to apply for

00:20:55.369 --> 00:20:58.190
these programs. Like programming is a huge barrier

00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:01.150
for a lot of places. So yeah. And the government

00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:03.190
has made a lot of promises that right now they're

00:21:03.190 --> 00:21:05.849
just like non -keeping. So, so there's, there's

00:21:05.849 --> 00:21:08.029
that. It is amazing because then families pay

00:21:08.029 --> 00:21:11.410
like $200 a month, like, which would be incredible,

00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:15.460
right? For childcare. There's. One $10 a day

00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:18.259
school age program in Squamish and another in

00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:21.019
Pemberton. And that one's called See the Sky,

00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:23.740
doing really great work. And then there's another

00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:26.920
one in Vancouver called Britannica, and they

00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.880
also have a $10 a day childcare. Wow. But it's

00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.980
very rare. And then for programs that don't have

00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.019
that, there's the childcare fee reduction initiative.

00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:40.799
And so that - Oh, well, that's what - Yeah, that

00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.059
one will supplement a lot of the childcare fees

00:21:44.059 --> 00:21:46.839
for families. But like in the license program

00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:50.000
where I work, it's about 300 a month that families

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.160
pay, but it's more expensive for kindergarten

00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.940
for some reason. And I'm not totally sure why,

00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:58.500
but if your child is enrolled in a kindergarten

00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.799
before an afterschool program, the fees are still

00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.779
higher. So it's kind of like an interesting,

00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:07.400
interesting thing. And then the wage enhancement

00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.759
is the other like big. funding right now, but

00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.799
that's for educator wages specifically. So there's

00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.519
like a few in BC that are good, but yeah, CCFRI

00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:20.579
is like definitely something a lot of families

00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.819
rely on and a lot of programs rely on too. Okay,

00:22:24.019 --> 00:22:27.319
yeah. So we have CWELT also because it's national,

00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:30.640
which is the $10 day childcare. Same thing though,

00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.480
especially with the federal election coming up,

00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:35.740
we already got emails saying... that we have

00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:37.859
to message, basically email our families and

00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.140
say, we don't know if we're going to be able

00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:42.460
to keep doing low fees. But yeah, we don't have

00:22:42.460 --> 00:22:45.460
anything else. So our $10 a day does not touch

00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:47.440
any before and after school program. It stops

00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.920
when, well, I shouldn't say that. It stops when

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:54.059
the child turns six. So if they're enrolled in

00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:55.559
before and after school program because they're

00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.079
in kindergarten, they still get a lower fee.

00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:03.200
But the day they turn six, it cuts off. So if

00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:04.700
they turn six in the middle of the week, literally

00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:06.539
half the week they're paying one fee and the

00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:07.819
next half of the week they're paying the other

00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:12.180
fee. We're not allowed to cover it. So our kindergartens

00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:15.019
are paying, we're not at $10 yet. I think we're

00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:19.180
at $12. And then my school -ages are paying more

00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:22.019
than that. I think in BC, it's like for families,

00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:25.279
it can be up to 900 a month per child, which

00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.369
is pretty amazing. I'm moving to Alberta in a

00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:30.309
few months, and I've been doing some research

00:23:30.309 --> 00:23:35.130
into the $15 a day program there. Yep. But what's

00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:38.970
interesting is that sounds really good, but the

00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:41.369
subsidies that families are receiving currently

00:23:41.369 --> 00:23:45.029
for their child care is actually like saves them

00:23:45.029 --> 00:23:48.009
way more money than $15 a day will. And there's

00:23:48.009 --> 00:23:50.509
not been a very clear transition or timeline

00:23:50.509 --> 00:23:53.250
for families on that. So their fees are going

00:23:53.250 --> 00:23:56.720
to actually go way up with $15 a day. Kind of

00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.720
interesting because I do think the government

00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:02.440
needs to invest in childcare, but there's just

00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.900
so many contradictory messages and it's very

00:24:05.900 --> 00:24:09.740
convoluted where the funding comes from. Like

00:24:09.740 --> 00:24:12.680
a lot of ECEs, we just don't know this information

00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:15.200
and it's so complicated. And I think for a lot

00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.299
of programs too, like taking on just a lot of

00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:21.839
time and energy for overworked educators, owners

00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.099
and operators already to apply for these funding

00:24:25.099 --> 00:24:28.940
programs. But then the permanency of the funding

00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:32.099
is uncertain, right? Like we don't know if it

00:24:32.099 --> 00:24:35.109
keeps changing with provincial governments. It's

00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:37.710
very obvious that we need to invest in childcare

00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:41.009
for families and educators and children, but

00:24:41.009 --> 00:24:43.769
it still seems to be up for so much debate in

00:24:43.769 --> 00:24:46.710
Canada. So that part can be a little bit discouraging

00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:51.220
at times, I think. incredible how needed it was

00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:54.319
during COVID and during when they closed it for

00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:55.740
a little while and then opened everything back

00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:58.519
up and we had to run these programs and all of

00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:00.920
a sudden we were important and life was grand.

00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:03.839
We weren't paid it, but life was grand and then

00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:05.519
everything goes away and we're like, oh yeah,

00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:07.240
it's just them again. They don't really need

00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:10.579
it. How are families supposed to work? Like are

00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:13.940
the fees for groceries and the price of gas and

00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:17.339
the price of everything is going up so tremendously

00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:20.039
and then All of a sudden now you have to pay

00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.079
what you would have been paying years ago for

00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.839
an infant program in before and after school,

00:25:24.099 --> 00:25:26.940
because there's nothing to make up the cost for

00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.000
these centers. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.779
the same sort of situation out here too. But

00:25:32.779 --> 00:25:35.160
these before and after school care, like I do

00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:39.299
see just how like grateful families are and how,

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:41.950
how much. relief they seem to have, like they

00:25:41.950 --> 00:25:44.089
know their kids are in these programs, they're

00:25:44.089 --> 00:25:46.549
learning, they're making new connections, they

00:25:46.549 --> 00:25:49.789
get access to really cool experiences. Yeah,

00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:52.089
and you can see like, because most parents come

00:25:52.089 --> 00:25:54.170
in to drop their kids off in the morning and

00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:56.250
they're like, work clothes, right? And then they

00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:58.890
come and pick them up. And it's just, it's so

00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:01.049
great that they can work their whole shift and

00:26:01.049 --> 00:26:03.410
their kids are somewhere safe, you know, like,

00:26:03.609 --> 00:26:06.230
I wish more people had access to that. Well,

00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:10.259
again, like The more we talk, the more like I'm

00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:12.279
getting all these like, oh my gosh, yeah, let's

00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:14.480
talk about that. Oh my gosh, yeah. There's so

00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.680
much, there's so many differences, but yet we're

00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.140
so intertwined as a nation in this, the need

00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:23.940
of childcare and the struggle we're facing. Speaking

00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:26.480
of struggles, what is your attention like for

00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:28.859
before and after school educators or like hiring

00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:33.259
and recruiting staff? Oh, that's a good question.

00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:37.150
I think the main problem. In BC is we just don't

00:26:37.150 --> 00:26:39.869
have enough spaces or programs for families.

00:26:40.329 --> 00:26:42.670
Like, you know, I live in the city, like the

00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:45.390
big city, the lower mainland, where there's the

00:26:45.390 --> 00:26:48.190
most programming and the most options for families

00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.750
because there is a lot of for -profit unlicensed

00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:54.549
models that have cropped up too. But from the

00:26:54.549 --> 00:26:57.450
research I've done with the coalition, more rural

00:26:57.450 --> 00:27:00.579
areas, there's like... child care is even more

00:27:00.579 --> 00:27:03.000
scarce and more in demand. Like there's just

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.160
not enough spaces, especially for before and

00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:08.079
after school care and like school aged care.

00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:10.839
In the last few years, we've seen tons of three

00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.599
to five daycare spots, like in home or, you know,

00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:18.799
other, other models for preschoolers, but infant

00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.619
toddler is super in demand and then school aged

00:27:21.619 --> 00:27:24.900
care. So I don't know, like families are relying

00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:28.240
on extended family to do pick up and drop off

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.319
or like I guess like nanny shares or like you

00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.279
know getting friends to pick up kids and take

00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.720
them home so it's just it seems very stressful

00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.400
right for families who don't have these these

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.039
spots and then the families who do are just like

00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.339
seem very relieved is the perception that I get

00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.619
we also don't have enough educators we're so

00:27:47.619 --> 00:27:50.680
short staffed you know I started at the licensed

00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.750
program where I work as a substitute but I got

00:27:53.750 --> 00:27:55.970
every shift that I ever said I was available

00:27:55.970 --> 00:27:59.930
for and I was called in constantly because like

00:27:59.930 --> 00:28:02.349
we're just so short staffed and that's even like

00:28:02.349 --> 00:28:06.089
with very low certification requirements which

00:28:06.089 --> 00:28:08.569
is interesting so and I would say that's in both

00:28:08.569 --> 00:28:11.250
licensed and unlicensed are really struggling

00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:14.569
to recruit educators but the wage is not very

00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:17.789
good so I mean that's kind of like an obvious

00:28:17.789 --> 00:28:20.910
sort of fix that we could have obviously for

00:28:20.910 --> 00:28:23.819
licensed If you're receiving government funding,

00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:26.700
that's one way you could incentivize becoming

00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:30.180
a teacher. But for for -profit models, they have

00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:33.400
to charge more to families to pay educators more,

00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.140
right? So it's a little bit of a different situation

00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:39.079
there. And then another issue I see a lot in

00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:42.279
BC is folks just like don't stay in the field.

00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.819
Like they will get their ECE license or their

00:28:45.819 --> 00:28:48.500
ECEA and they'll do the work for a little bit,

00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.059
but then they don't. see a future in childcare

00:28:52.059 --> 00:28:55.759
or education unless they're in like the public

00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.900
school system and have access to a pension and

00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:03.599
things like that. So, I mean, another barrier

00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.720
is our licenses expire and we have to keep them

00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:10.940
updated every year unless you meet a certain

00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:13.400
criteria and then you can apply for a five -year

00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.390
license. But a lot of educators I know just let

00:29:17.390 --> 00:29:21.230
their license expire. And then the way to get

00:29:21.230 --> 00:29:24.509
your license back is also quite convoluted. So

00:29:24.509 --> 00:29:26.950
it makes me think a lot about just like these

00:29:26.950 --> 00:29:29.509
bureaucratic processes that are preventing people

00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:33.009
from staying in the field as engaged teachers.

00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:35.450
We also have a problem, I'm sure this is the

00:29:35.450 --> 00:29:39.450
case in Ontario too, that if you work in alternative

00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:42.670
education or childcare, you're just not seen.

00:29:43.299 --> 00:29:46.460
as somehow as legitimate of a teacher as if you

00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:50.319
work in a school board or a school system. So

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:53.819
I think that's a sort of a bigger perception

00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:57.119
of the work that we do, but it definitely influences

00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:59.500
all these other factors for why people don't

00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:02.920
want to stay in the field. Oh, yeah. Yes, to

00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.960
all of that, like literally everything you said,

00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:10.009
we're feeling here too. It's so hard to to preach

00:30:10.009 --> 00:30:12.890
and tell people, like, this is what we need when,

00:30:12.910 --> 00:30:16.450
oh, there's no spaces for families and then there's

00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:19.150
no staff to run those spaces and no government

00:30:19.150 --> 00:30:21.970
support. And then you turn around and then the

00:30:21.970 --> 00:30:24.170
families that need us so much is not, my families

00:30:24.170 --> 00:30:25.650
are great. I'm sure your families are great.

00:30:25.789 --> 00:30:28.089
It's not, it's not them, but the wider community

00:30:28.089 --> 00:30:30.549
is looking at us like we're babysitters and what

00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:33.509
do we need them for? Yeah, it's a lot, but I

00:30:33.509 --> 00:30:36.309
mean, the teachers who do stay in are in because

00:30:36.309 --> 00:30:38.910
they care about the work and they care about

00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:41.630
the relationships and they know it's important.

00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:44.130
And there's a lot of self -advocacy that goes

00:30:44.130 --> 00:30:46.769
along with being any kind of early childhood

00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:49.390
educator. So I think you get a lot of really

00:30:49.390 --> 00:30:52.109
passionate people who are doing this incredible

00:30:52.109 --> 00:30:55.650
work, but it's hard because the value of the

00:30:55.650 --> 00:30:59.250
work is not reflected in a lot of really important

00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:02.049
ways right now, especially with just how expensive

00:31:02.049 --> 00:31:05.069
everything is, right? So I used to teach at Native

00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:08.210
Education College in Vancouver. I used to teach

00:31:08.210 --> 00:31:11.369
pre -service educators who wanted to become ECEs.

00:31:11.549 --> 00:31:14.509
And it's hard because a lot of them would do

00:31:14.509 --> 00:31:16.710
their practicum and, you know, they'd be offered

00:31:16.710 --> 00:31:18.869
a position. But yeah, it was hard to see them

00:31:18.869 --> 00:31:21.569
like their license would expire and they wouldn't

00:31:21.569 --> 00:31:24.009
renew it because sometimes it's not clear how

00:31:24.009 --> 00:31:26.470
you're supposed to go about that. Or they would

00:31:26.470 --> 00:31:28.950
just say, the wage is just too low. Like I need

00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:31.490
a higher paying position. I think there's a lot

00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:34.170
of things we could do structurally to make this

00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.990
job more valuable, but that's going to like,

00:31:37.089 --> 00:31:39.430
that's going to take time. And yeah, I agree.

00:31:39.549 --> 00:31:41.809
It's not the families, the families recognize

00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:44.170
the work and they're typically very grateful,

00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:46.170
right? Cause otherwise they wouldn't be able

00:31:46.170 --> 00:31:48.789
to have their jobs if their kids weren't. Yeah.

00:31:49.029 --> 00:31:51.150
It's kind of nice to hear that you can relate

00:31:51.150 --> 00:31:53.490
to a lot of this in Ontario, but it's also kind

00:31:53.490 --> 00:31:55.670
of like, oh man, this problem is really big.

00:31:55.970 --> 00:31:57.670
Yeah. It's, it's, it's a little disheartening

00:31:57.670 --> 00:32:00.190
because it's not like one province gets it. I

00:32:00.190 --> 00:32:02.250
mean, you're the first province I'm talking to

00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:04.430
obviously about you, but BC is the first province

00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:06.910
I'm talking to you. But I, from what I hear,

00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:08.990
we're everywhere in Canada is feeling the same.

00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:11.680
Your licensing process. So we have, we're similar.

00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.519
We have a year license and we pay for, they just

00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.119
up the fees to $175 a year. Do you have to pay

00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.660
a fee to be licensed? No, no, I'll share that

00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:21.259
too. Don't say that out here. I'm just kidding.

00:32:21.460 --> 00:32:24.420
People are gonna be so angry. Five a year? Yeah,

00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.400
and they went up. It used to, when I started,

00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:28.940
it was, I want to say it was 150. It might've

00:32:28.940 --> 00:32:31.799
been even 130 when I started, and now it's up

00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:36.240
to 135, and it's a huge deterrent for people.

00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.460
And we did nothing. Like, it's not, it's not

00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:40.660
like it's advertised for us. Really what it is,

00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.039
it's... It's like a governing board. It's called

00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.359
the College of ECEs. It's a governing board so

00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.700
that families know that the educators that are

00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:50.099
working in these centers that are licensed are

00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:53.960
good people, that they're improving their development

00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.920
or early child's education. But also if there

00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:58.779
was any problems, if anyone got in trouble for

00:32:58.779 --> 00:33:00.599
doing something they shouldn't be, they would

00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:03.220
be reprimanded through the College of ECEs. So

00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:05.779
it's really just this way of guaranteeing families

00:33:05.779 --> 00:33:07.680
that educators are good, that they're doing what

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.140
they should be doing. But it's not like we get

00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:12.839
discounted. like our College of Teachers provides

00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.759
discounts if you are a teacher. And not that

00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.779
they're great, but at least they provide something.

00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.500
But we got nothing for the College of ECEs. And

00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:22.400
we have to, yeah, we renew every year. And then

00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.240
we also have... It's called CPL, which I actually

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:27.640
really like because I'm obsessed with learning.

00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.059
I mean, it sounds similar to you, but we're mandated

00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:33.660
that we have to do so much learning each year

00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:36.700
and fill out this reflective practice and they

00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:38.640
can audit us. And if they audit us and we don't

00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.839
get that in, we lose our license. So there's

00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.279
a lot that go into it. Very, very systematic.

00:33:43.299 --> 00:33:45.079
And that's really what it is. It's all about

00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.019
politics and people having control, but whether

00:33:48.019 --> 00:33:50.940
or not it's beneficial is up for grabs. And it

00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:55.640
is causing a lot. of chaos, especially on the

00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:58.039
internet where people can yell all day and night.

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.339
Yeah. I agree that fee sounds actually quite

00:34:01.339 --> 00:34:04.880
high. That would be a deterrent, especially when

00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.579
you're getting your ECE. You guys have to do

00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:10.239
practicums as well, right? Oh, yeah. Unpaid?

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.480
Yes. So we don't have to pay the fine, the fee.

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.800
We don't have to pay the fee until you graduate

00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.059
and then you join the college. But yeah, we have

00:34:18.059 --> 00:34:21.320
unpaid practicums. It cannot be paid. Like, I

00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:23.039
mean, if you're through the apprenticeship, you

00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:26.320
can, but like as a regular college program, it

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.300
can't be paid. Yeah. And that's, that was really

00:34:29.300 --> 00:34:33.139
hard even to get. Students to continue like it's

00:34:33.139 --> 00:34:35.519
unpaid for three months out here. You have to

00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.219
do two or three, but it has to be 425 hours of

00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:43.699
unpaid work. Oh, wow. So then you finally finish

00:34:43.699 --> 00:34:46.519
and you graduate, but that's hard for people,

00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.000
especially like. You know, if you're a single

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.179
parent and you're trying to get the certificate

00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:55.079
at a job, like it's hard. And maybe Ontario has

00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.519
some, like you mentioned that one program that

00:34:57.519 --> 00:34:59.599
offers a little bit, like it doesn't cover the

00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.000
whole cost, but it offers a little bit. And out

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:04.440
here we have the early childhood educators at

00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.940
BC, which I know you've heard of. And they, they

00:35:06.940 --> 00:35:09.619
are amazing because they give students a lot

00:35:09.619 --> 00:35:13.260
of bursary funding if you're pursuing your ECE

00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:16.840
education. Yeah. Like they paid for half of my

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.219
tuition. So like when I'm getting my one year

00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.300
ECE license and that's amazing. Like that makes

00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:26.179
it easier to get into the program and fund your

00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:29.420
education, but it's hard. It's like a lot for

00:35:29.420 --> 00:35:32.039
educators. And then there's other jobs out there,

00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.400
other industries where there's no way you would

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.340
be unpaid. for your work practicum, right? Like.

00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:41.179
Yeah, absolutely. And I think about what you're

00:35:41.179 --> 00:35:42.920
saying, like, yes, the unpaid work, like all

00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.300
of our, like, welding or anything you go into

00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:47.480
as a trade, which they talk about early childhood

00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:49.159
education here as a trade, but it's not like

00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.659
it's treated the same. It's all paid, unless

00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:55.059
I'm wrong, but it's all paid co -ops. Yeah. Or

00:35:55.059 --> 00:35:56.739
apprenticeships where like you're not making

00:35:56.739 --> 00:35:59.780
a full wage, but you are making something and

00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:02.230
that would be really nice. a little incentive.

00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.949
Now we do have, I just wanted to throw this out

00:36:04.949 --> 00:36:07.969
there. We do have ECE Grants of Ontario, which

00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:12.269
is literally just ECEgrants .ca .com. I'll put

00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:14.630
it in the show notes. But they offer a grant

00:36:14.630 --> 00:36:16.949
program. It's not, they get funding, but a lot

00:36:16.949 --> 00:36:19.070
of people apply, so not everyone gets the funding,

00:36:19.429 --> 00:36:22.610
but for... getting your ECE, they will pay if

00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:26.170
you get, if you use them to get your ECE, I believe

00:36:26.170 --> 00:36:29.269
they also, you can apply to get your first college

00:36:29.269 --> 00:36:32.530
of ECE year paid for. And then I've used them

00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:35.469
to like further my education. So I took a leadership

00:36:35.469 --> 00:36:38.150
in ECE course and I got all of my fees paid for

00:36:38.150 --> 00:36:41.010
through them. And then also bookkeeping. So that

00:36:41.010 --> 00:36:43.469
I could further my, as a supervisor, I could

00:36:43.469 --> 00:36:45.469
further my knowledge in that. And they also were

00:36:45.469 --> 00:36:47.789
able to pay for my ruling for that. So it's been

00:36:47.789 --> 00:36:50.010
incredible that way. We do have, yeah. So we

00:36:50.010 --> 00:36:52.329
do have some, it's just, it's about finding them,

00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:55.869
right? Yeah. And it seems to be like grassroots

00:36:55.869 --> 00:36:59.130
community organized, like organizations that

00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:02.079
do that. And I think the thing is we need more

00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:04.559
government support and funding as well. Like

00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.000
that's the piece that seems to be missing across

00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.460
Canada. Yeah. So I don't know. This is great.

00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:11.400
It's good to hear what's out there for Ontario.

00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:14.980
Oh, right. Yeah. So let's take a little turn

00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:17.059
into, not that we weren't talking positive because

00:37:17.059 --> 00:37:19.320
some of it's positive, but I want to hear if

00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.719
you could share a success story or a moment you're

00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.079
particularly proud of within your programs. Yeah,

00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.420
so one of the things that's really important

00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:30.760
to me as an educator is like I try to teach from

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.599
a place of relationship So relationship building

00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.780
takes time And especially with some students

00:37:37.780 --> 00:37:40.440
or children, it takes longer, right? For whatever

00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.059
reason, there's kids who present different challenges

00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:47.159
or they have their own traumas that they're bringing.

00:37:47.739 --> 00:37:50.460
So relationship building means a lot to me. And

00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:52.619
I think that's one of the really cool parts of

00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:55.820
being in before and after school care is... You

00:37:55.820 --> 00:37:58.780
get to know the families that use this service.

00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.360
You get to see the kids grow up. So, you know,

00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:03.880
some of these kids I've known since they were

00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.380
three in the, so the licensed program where I

00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:10.099
work, it's actually under an umbrella organization

00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:12.599
out here. We have neighborhood houses and they're

00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.679
kind of like community hubs and they just offer

00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.860
lots of different programming for communities.

00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:20.900
But the daycare where I substitute is like the

00:38:20.900 --> 00:38:23.320
under the same umbrella as before and after school

00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:26.269
program. So I've got to see some of the children

00:38:26.269 --> 00:38:29.150
that I've worked with at the daycare grow up,

00:38:29.530 --> 00:38:31.789
graduate from daycare and go into kindergarten

00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:34.210
at the before and after school program. And,

00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:36.989
you know, there was a moment in early September

00:38:36.989 --> 00:38:40.050
where I had sort of forgotten that that was going

00:38:40.050 --> 00:38:43.449
to happen. And then I saw these two kids in particular

00:38:43.449 --> 00:38:46.309
who had just started elementary school and, you

00:38:46.309 --> 00:38:48.559
know, the moment where they like came into the

00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:50.920
space and like I saw them and they saw me and

00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.539
we already had this relationship built. It was

00:38:53.539 --> 00:38:56.940
just so beautiful and it meant a lot to me because

00:38:56.940 --> 00:38:59.940
I was a substitute at that point, right? And

00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:02.360
yeah, we already had this really great trusting

00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:04.579
relationship and I think it just kind of created

00:39:04.579 --> 00:39:07.539
a lot of comfort for them too, right? Because

00:39:07.539 --> 00:39:10.900
that's a big transition from daycare into a big

00:39:10.900 --> 00:39:14.099
elementary school. So there's that as sort of

00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:17.159
a success story, just like seeing the kids grow

00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:19.480
and transition into these different parts of

00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.920
their lives is really special for me. And then

00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:24.820
the parents too, they're like, oh, you work here

00:39:24.820 --> 00:39:27.239
too. I'm like, yeah, I work in both. So that's,

00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:30.360
that's kind of lovely as well. Another story

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.360
I have for the unlicensed. So there was one day

00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:37.159
I'd been working, teaching like a preschool class.

00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:39.619
It's sort of like an on English and math class,

00:39:39.619 --> 00:39:43.099
I would say. And there was one child who I've

00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:45.440
worked with, with him for maybe two and a half

00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.940
years now. And there was one day he just like

00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:51.579
would not come into the center. Like he just

00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:54.119
refused, but he doesn't at this time, he was

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:56.820
so very nonverbal. So it was hard to kind of

00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:58.920
understand like why he didn't want to come in

00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.260
because nothing had happened that was out of

00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:04.739
the ordinary, like, you know, previously. the

00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:07.139
parents were also like we don't really understand

00:40:07.139 --> 00:40:09.460
like but he just like doesn't want to come in

00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:12.579
and I would never force a kid to like kind of

00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:14.739
like you don't need to come if you don't want

00:40:14.739 --> 00:40:18.159
to like situation this was on like a saturday

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.780
class and anyways we figured out like we did

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:24.780
he eventually came in it took some like you know

00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:27.059
encouragement we had a fine class but the next

00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:29.769
The next week it happened again. So eventually

00:40:29.769 --> 00:40:32.269
we figured out he wanted his little brother to

00:40:32.269 --> 00:40:34.969
also come into the class and that that was the

00:40:34.969 --> 00:40:37.429
issue was he just he didn't want to do it by

00:40:37.429 --> 00:40:39.570
himself anymore. He was like, no, my brother's

00:40:39.570 --> 00:40:42.090
ready to join this class. And yeah, I've been

00:40:42.090 --> 00:40:44.750
teaching both of them in that class now. And

00:40:44.750 --> 00:40:47.630
sometimes teaching siblings together is very

00:40:47.630 --> 00:40:50.849
difficult in a group situation. And these two

00:40:50.849 --> 00:40:53.809
are so lovely. And the learning that is happening

00:40:53.809 --> 00:40:56.949
with both of them there is just like exponential,

00:40:57.289 --> 00:40:59.929
like it's just the communication between them.

00:41:00.090 --> 00:41:02.389
Yeah, so I don't know, like, I don't think that

00:41:02.389 --> 00:41:05.010
any of those moments would have happened without,

00:41:05.010 --> 00:41:08.050
like, relationship as the foundation. And I think

00:41:08.050 --> 00:41:10.110
that that's one of the most rewarding parts about

00:41:10.110 --> 00:41:12.989
being an educator is these kids, like, I don't

00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:14.690
know, it's just like they, it means so much to

00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:17.170
me, right, that they trust me that much and that

00:41:17.170 --> 00:41:20.210
it's reciprocal in that way and we can do this

00:41:20.210 --> 00:41:22.909
work together. It's really special. I love that

00:41:22.909 --> 00:41:28.070
so much. I often talk about how hard it is for

00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:32.630
us as educators at ECEs all around to build these

00:41:32.630 --> 00:41:34.210
incredible relationships with these children

00:41:34.210 --> 00:41:36.429
and then they go off and they graduate or they

00:41:36.429 --> 00:41:39.050
move or they leave us and they go somewhere else.

00:41:39.469 --> 00:41:41.809
wherever the world takes them, and then they

00:41:41.809 --> 00:41:44.389
forget about you. Maybe they don't forget about

00:41:44.389 --> 00:41:47.530
you. We leave lasting impressions, that's so

00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:49.949
true, but sometimes families don't think about

00:41:49.949 --> 00:41:53.289
the impact their child has on us also. And then

00:41:53.289 --> 00:41:55.969
you spend the night sitting, when you're thinking

00:41:55.969 --> 00:41:58.230
in bed at night, when your brain is working,

00:41:58.329 --> 00:41:59.699
it's not supposed to be, and you're like... I

00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.320
wonder what ever happened to so and so or I think

00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:04.920
about this person. And sometimes you don't find

00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:06.420
out. Sometimes they just go on and graduate.

00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:08.440
Like I know for our before and after school programs,

00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:10.780
we're attached to childcare center, which is

00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:12.800
also attached to school. So we're lucky if the

00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:14.960
kids from childcare go to that school, because

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.340
then they get to come to our before and after

00:42:16.340 --> 00:42:18.739
school program. Yeah. So very similar. But if

00:42:18.739 --> 00:42:20.960
they don't, sometimes you never see them again.

00:42:20.980 --> 00:42:24.659
And it's so sad because you do, you spend all

00:42:24.659 --> 00:42:27.159
this time making these relationships. And I wholeheartedly

00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:29.260
agree with you. I think that relationship is

00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:32.420
the foundation of our care of, of caring and

00:42:32.420 --> 00:42:34.460
building these, to helping build these children

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:37.480
who are, are incredible human beings. And you

00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:39.340
just, all of a sudden they're just gone. And

00:42:39.340 --> 00:42:41.059
like, that was a whole, maybe it was a year,

00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:43.059
maybe it was three years and they just disappear.

00:42:43.179 --> 00:42:46.579
I just had a, a child who's been in before and

00:42:46.579 --> 00:42:49.480
after school since I started. So about five years

00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.820
and they aged out. So they're, they're done.

00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.400
And that's just it. They're, they're gone. And

00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.000
I'm like, that can't be good. I just had them

00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.449
for five years of my life. true and like It's

00:43:00.449 --> 00:43:03.849
hard to trust that we made a lasting impact.

00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:06.690
Like they might not consciously remember us later

00:43:06.690 --> 00:43:09.269
on, but maybe there's something we did that will

00:43:09.269 --> 00:43:11.550
stick with them. I always try to remind myself

00:43:11.550 --> 00:43:13.829
of that. Like maybe there was an activity that

00:43:13.829 --> 00:43:15.989
just, you know, they'll always think about. I

00:43:15.989 --> 00:43:18.150
don't know. Like as it is, it's really hard to

00:43:18.150 --> 00:43:20.730
say goodbye. I think that is a tough part of

00:43:20.730 --> 00:43:23.849
the job because we do take the time to get to

00:43:23.849 --> 00:43:25.670
know these kids, right? Like for who they are

00:43:25.670 --> 00:43:28.929
as individual learners and they can make you

00:43:28.929 --> 00:43:33.429
laugh. Oh, yeah. So that is, that is tricky,

00:43:33.630 --> 00:43:36.869
but it's very cool that you had five years with

00:43:36.869 --> 00:43:39.409
that family and that child. Like I think that

00:43:39.409 --> 00:43:42.829
kid will definitely remember you. You know, I

00:43:42.829 --> 00:43:45.449
hope so. And like, I think like I've been doing

00:43:45.449 --> 00:43:47.909
this for a long time. So even like, if I have

00:43:47.909 --> 00:43:51.190
families on Facebook, I don't, there's so much

00:43:51.190 --> 00:43:52.989
around that. So I'll just precursor that with,

00:43:53.250 --> 00:43:54.730
I definitely don't add families to Facebook,

00:43:54.730 --> 00:43:57.369
but if they add me, I do add them. because I

00:43:57.369 --> 00:43:59.550
don't share anything on Facebook anyways. But

00:43:59.550 --> 00:44:01.730
it's cool to watch their kids grow up. And I

00:44:01.730 --> 00:44:04.869
just I've been doing this like working as an

00:44:04.869 --> 00:44:08.070
REC is what we call it here. Yeah. For going

00:44:08.070 --> 00:44:11.929
on. Oh, my gosh. It has to be 14 years now. And

00:44:11.929 --> 00:44:13.809
some of the kids that I started with when I was

00:44:13.809 --> 00:44:16.989
in placement have graduated college. And I get

00:44:16.989 --> 00:44:19.050
to see them on Facebook, graduating college.

00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:20.769
And if I saw them on the street, they probably

00:44:20.769 --> 00:44:22.269
would never say anything. And that's totally

00:44:22.269 --> 00:44:25.050
okay. But watching them through their family's

00:44:25.050 --> 00:44:27.210
lives, like graduating, being successful, and

00:44:27.210 --> 00:44:28.849
all of the sudden, it's like, it's so empowering.

00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:30.690
Like, wow, I remember you when you were like

00:44:30.690 --> 00:44:33.550
10. I remember you when you were nine. Yeah,

00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:37.429
it's beautiful. Like, honestly, it's hard to

00:44:37.429 --> 00:44:41.000
let them go. But yeah, trusting that that connection

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.820
was there and that it was, you know, really important

00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:46.059
in their life. Like, I don't know. It's, it's

00:44:46.059 --> 00:44:50.440
really cool to see that. Yeah. It solidifies

00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.760
the work that we do is important and it's, it's,

00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.960
it's lasting and on both sides. How does your

00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:59.179
program address inclusivity and support diverse

00:44:59.179 --> 00:45:02.139
needs in both the licensed and unlicensed? Yeah.

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:05.179
So this is something I really care a lot about

00:45:05.179 --> 00:45:08.099
is making sure it's actually inclusive. So at

00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:10.940
the license program, we actually make sure that

00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:14.000
we always have enough staff for one -on -one

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.179
support for children with high support needs.

00:45:16.420 --> 00:45:19.260
Wow. Yeah. So there's two children in particular

00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:24.199
who, one is in a wheelchair and she has cerebral

00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:26.980
palsy and the other, and I think she's in like

00:45:26.980 --> 00:45:30.820
grade five now and the other student has Down

00:45:30.820 --> 00:45:34.539
syndrome and is nonverbal. So there's always

00:45:34.539 --> 00:45:37.900
one staff with both of them when they're at the

00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:40.639
program so that their needs are being met. And

00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.159
we switch off and take rotations every day so

00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.920
that they get to work with all the staff. That's

00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:50.760
great. Honestly, I'm so proud of that. I think

00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.119
it's really fantastic. But something else we

00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:59.000
do, that program is 67 kids. That's a lot. Yeah,

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:02.239
so we do a lot of small group activities, actually.

00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:05.500
There's some larger group activities like marathon

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:07.889
club. You don't have to run, but you do have

00:46:07.889 --> 00:46:10.989
to do at least one loop, right? Take however

00:46:10.989 --> 00:46:14.070
long you need. But like, we do a lot of smaller

00:46:14.070 --> 00:46:16.889
group activities so that the kids can explore

00:46:16.889 --> 00:46:19.309
their own interests. And we offer them a lot

00:46:19.309 --> 00:46:23.050
of choices in like within that. So like, you

00:46:23.050 --> 00:46:25.409
know, maybe the leaders, the older kids, we call

00:46:25.409 --> 00:46:28.409
them the leaders, they are doing like, we'll

00:46:28.409 --> 00:46:30.929
say like, okay, you can do like beading or there's

00:46:30.929 --> 00:46:33.809
always Lego, Lego super popular, like, so they

00:46:33.809 --> 00:46:36.380
can choose their own activities. Or if we're

00:46:36.380 --> 00:46:38.219
offering something more structured, there's still

00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:40.780
often choice within that. And we don't force

00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:43.119
kids, if they really don't want to do something

00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:47.420
sensory, that's okay. So I think that that allows

00:46:47.420 --> 00:46:50.300
for kids to really figure out, try new things

00:46:50.300 --> 00:46:52.719
if they're open to it, but then also know that

00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.599
their preferences and their experience is still

00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:58.079
being honored. And then they get to spend a lot

00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.239
of time with their peers. So I think that that's

00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.659
another way. we will provide opportunities for

00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:07.800
engagement. Like we do baking with them. Sometimes

00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:09.880
we do a lot of art. There's a lot of sports.

00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:12.699
So I feel like their interests are like reflected

00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:15.659
in activities we offer, but they also get to

00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:17.860
hang out with their friends. If that's what they

00:47:17.860 --> 00:47:20.619
want to do and just like chill, they can do that

00:47:20.619 --> 00:47:23.559
too. And then at the unlicensed program, because

00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:27.039
it's more academic, one of the focuses there

00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:29.820
that I feel proud of is it's very individualized

00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:34.119
for the child. If the parents want them to focus

00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:37.079
more on the language side of things, we'll do

00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.360
an assessment of their language skills and then

00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:44.340
we will focus on teaching them that part of English

00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:47.340
or Chinese or French or whatever language it

00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:50.820
is that they are being supported in. That's really

00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:53.719
great because I think it helps the kids. They're

00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:57.519
still learning in a group setting. being exposed

00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.860
to like kids at different levels but they also

00:47:59.860 --> 00:48:02.219
have work that they're doing that's empowering

00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.739
to them because they can do it it's like at their

00:48:04.739 --> 00:48:07.559
level so it's like a positive feedback loop and

00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.900
a positive experience for learning but i think

00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:12.460
like within the larger group having small group

00:48:12.460 --> 00:48:15.460
opportunities is one of the best ways to support

00:48:15.460 --> 00:48:18.599
kids wherever they're at and then just like really

00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:22.269
taking time for social emotional stuff like people

00:48:22.269 --> 00:48:24.269
want to rush through that a lot as educators

00:48:24.269 --> 00:48:26.989
and in a large program it's easy to overlook

00:48:26.989 --> 00:48:29.909
these sort of like micro -interactions but yeah

00:48:29.909 --> 00:48:32.210
we spend a lot of time talking about how best

00:48:32.210 --> 00:48:34.750
to respond to certain things to prevent bullying

00:48:34.750 --> 00:48:38.070
and to make sure that kids are feeling safe with

00:48:38.070 --> 00:48:41.050
their friends and that they know the staff and

00:48:41.050 --> 00:48:43.489
the educators are like aware of the dynamics

00:48:43.489 --> 00:48:46.489
that are going on socially yeah and we don't

00:48:46.489 --> 00:48:49.920
really have like screen time unless we're watching

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.039
like a short video or something. But okay, it's

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:57.460
all very like hands on, like personalized learning.

00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.059
Yeah, we don't we don't have screen time either.

00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:03.400
But I love what you said, like, individualized

00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:06.480
learning is is huge. And I think like, like you

00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:08.559
said, meeting children where they're at is the

00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.980
way that they're going to be successful and a

00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:13.900
great way to make sure they're included. Like

00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:16.909
we've we chatted earlier about how When you have

00:49:16.909 --> 00:49:18.849
children that are four and five years old and

00:49:18.849 --> 00:49:21.190
you have children that are eight, nine, 10, 11,

00:49:21.510 --> 00:49:24.550
it's hard to teach them all the same thing or

00:49:24.550 --> 00:49:27.010
similar things. But when you individualize it,

00:49:27.190 --> 00:49:28.909
you're teaching to the level they're at instead

00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:32.530
of just to the broader sense of the group. Yeah.

00:49:32.630 --> 00:49:35.130
And it is more work. It's more consideration

00:49:35.130 --> 00:49:37.409
on the part of the teacher. But I don't know.

00:49:37.750 --> 00:49:40.489
You can see that it's like playing out properly

00:49:40.489 --> 00:49:43.110
and that they're engaged. And that's the thing

00:49:43.110 --> 00:49:45.900
that like... is like, okay, that bit of extra

00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:48.519
work was worth it because every kid is feeling

00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:51.900
engaged and like they're comfortable right now

00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.380
with what they're learning. And like, yeah, it's

00:49:54.380 --> 00:49:56.820
great to see that kind of dynamic happening.

00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:59.619
Yeah, that's something like really rewarding.

00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.480
But I think about school aged care in particular.

00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:07.699
No, I agree with you 100%. Looking ahead, why

00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:10.920
would you like to see change in school aged care

00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:15.019
within British Columbia or in Canada as a whole.

00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:17.480
Okay. Well, I feel like I kind of said a lot

00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:20.960
of that already, but more programming in general.

00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:23.960
Like I just think we need more programming. If

00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:27.199
there's a way that we can make this work, like

00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:30.500
happening more in the schools themselves so that

00:50:30.500 --> 00:50:33.429
like, you know, like I get like the the teacher,

00:50:33.809 --> 00:50:36.190
the teacher in the regular school day, like they've

00:50:36.190 --> 00:50:39.010
finished their job. But then like the ECEs or

00:50:39.010 --> 00:50:41.710
the RECEs, like if there's a way to make it so

00:50:41.710 --> 00:50:44.030
that they can go to that school and there's a

00:50:44.030 --> 00:50:46.409
space for the before and after school care, like

00:50:46.409 --> 00:50:49.050
I just think there's ways to make that happen

00:50:49.050 --> 00:50:51.829
in collaboration with the school and other programs.

00:50:51.889 --> 00:50:54.630
Like it would just increase accessibility for

00:50:54.630 --> 00:50:58.190
a lot of people, I think. Better payment for

00:50:58.190 --> 00:51:00.730
educators would be great, especially because

00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:03.619
If you work before and after school care, you're

00:51:03.619 --> 00:51:05.820
probably doing a split shift a lot of times,

00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:08.000
right? I think that's one of the things that

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:10.900
makes the job unique. There's great things about

00:51:10.900 --> 00:51:13.039
having a split shift, but it's also difficult

00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:15.639
for some folks, right? So I think we just need

00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:18.980
better payment to make that like incentivized.

00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.639
Like, yeah, that would be great. Or if we had

00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:24.920
more staff and there was just always morning

00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.440
folks and then afternoon folks, but there's just

00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:29.920
not enough staff. So like that's not possible

00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:33.130
yet. I would love to see a greater acknowledgement,

00:51:34.070 --> 00:51:37.010
just socioculturally, that this work is important

00:51:37.010 --> 00:51:40.489
and that this service is important to so many

00:51:40.489 --> 00:51:44.690
families. It's a very fast -paced world that

00:51:44.690 --> 00:51:48.110
we live in now and it's expensive and people

00:51:48.110 --> 00:51:51.030
need to know their kids are safe and they need

00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:55.050
to be able to work. Before and after school care...

00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:58.340
literally facilitates a lot of that for families

00:51:58.340 --> 00:52:00.940
and it helps people you know if you move somewhere

00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:03.900
in Canada and you are newly migrated and the

00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:06.519
rest like your extended family isn't here but

00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.880
you have this service where you can make sure

00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.480
your kids are like looked after so you can go

00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:15.260
to work like that will help people so much. I

00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:17.579
just, I don't know, I wish more people had access

00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:19.980
to it in general, because then they would understand

00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:22.800
the benefits a bit better, whereas it feels very

00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.300
niche and only certain people have access to

00:52:25.300 --> 00:52:27.880
it, right? Yeah, better payment and more programming.

00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.039
I love it. I wholeheartedly agree. And I hope,

00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:34.019
I hope that maybe we see that with the new election

00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:36.539
and with the new and the new, the next couple

00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:39.679
of years as, as things change and as we get more

00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:42.940
into this, hopefully more into this funding for

00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:46.440
childcare. I hope so. I have one more question

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.179
for you. Thanks so much for sticking around and

00:52:50.179 --> 00:52:52.820
answering everything. What advice would you give

00:52:52.820 --> 00:52:55.460
to new educators stepping into a before and aftercare

00:52:55.460 --> 00:52:59.199
role? Yeah. So one thing I love is you can bring

00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.679
new ideas. Kids have already been in school all

00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.900
day. So bring, even if they seem like weird ideas,

00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:06.860
there's so much we can do, right? And there's

00:53:06.860 --> 00:53:08.900
so many different types of learning that we can

00:53:08.900 --> 00:53:11.599
do. Like we can get messy. We can do science

00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:15.010
experiments. We can go outside. We can do field

00:53:15.010 --> 00:53:17.730
trips during summer camp and things like that

00:53:17.730 --> 00:53:20.809
like it's bring new ideas to the field because

00:53:20.809 --> 00:53:24.590
sometimes teachers are tired and if you're if

00:53:24.590 --> 00:53:27.929
you're new like fresh ideas are always appreciated

00:53:27.929 --> 00:53:30.789
so that's good it's also like very fast paced

00:53:30.789 --> 00:53:33.230
like the hours are really cool if you don't like

00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:35.289
to get up too early all the time you could do

00:53:35.289 --> 00:53:38.389
the afternoon shift right so but the shifts are

00:53:38.389 --> 00:53:41.690
short and it's really fast paced so that works

00:53:41.690 --> 00:53:44.079
well i think if you know if that's what you're

00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:45.940
looking for and you don't want to do eight -hour

00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:48.780
shifts or if you you know I don't know it's just

00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:51.019
like nice to have like that kind of flexibility

00:53:51.019 --> 00:53:53.400
these programs like if you work in a program

00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:56.039
like this it also works well if you have multiple

00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:59.480
jobs so like I've always had a lot of different

00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.119
jobs at once and I actually really like that

00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.739
I really thrive on that so like if you're someone

00:54:05.739 --> 00:54:09.489
who enjoys trying different things that maybe

00:54:09.489 --> 00:54:12.210
like relies on the gig economy a bit more. I

00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:14.250
think before and after school programming like

00:54:14.250 --> 00:54:17.130
can be a good fit. So the other thing is even

00:54:17.130 --> 00:54:19.789
if you get started in a before and after school

00:54:19.789 --> 00:54:22.389
care program in BC, you only have your responsible

00:54:22.389 --> 00:54:25.309
adult or you only have your ECE assistant, you

00:54:25.309 --> 00:54:27.630
can keep going and then you'll have access to

00:54:27.630 --> 00:54:30.070
the wage enhancement and you'll get a raise,

00:54:30.389 --> 00:54:34.289
$6 right now, which is amazing. So that part,

00:54:34.469 --> 00:54:37.730
I think like that's good incentive as well. And

00:54:37.730 --> 00:54:41.889
then I like teaching this age group because they

00:54:41.889 --> 00:54:46.130
ask so many juicy questions and they will challenge

00:54:46.130 --> 00:54:49.449
you as an educator in so many different ways.

00:54:49.949 --> 00:54:51.989
Like, yes, they were in school all day, but by

00:54:51.989 --> 00:54:53.949
the time you get them, like they've been thinking

00:54:53.949 --> 00:54:56.730
about what they're learning in school and it's

00:54:56.730 --> 00:54:59.570
like a different vibe. So they sometimes are

00:54:59.570 --> 00:55:02.489
more relaxed. They feel more comfortable asking

00:55:02.489 --> 00:55:04.690
their before and after school teachers these

00:55:04.690 --> 00:55:07.469
questions. You get to play with them. You get

00:55:07.469 --> 00:55:10.210
to go outside and do cool field trips. I don't

00:55:10.210 --> 00:55:13.070
know. There's just so many benefits, I think,

00:55:13.130 --> 00:55:16.369
to doing this work. And the relationship is really

00:55:16.369 --> 00:55:18.650
different. It's lovely. But it's different than

00:55:18.650 --> 00:55:21.849
being their regular school teacher. And I think

00:55:21.849 --> 00:55:25.630
the kids are aware of that, right? I recommend

00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:28.969
it. I think it's good because it keeps you flexible

00:55:28.969 --> 00:55:32.320
as a teacher. So yeah, I don't know. There's

00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:34.079
a lot of reasons to go into this field. You'll

00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.219
meet passionate folks like Jamie, but there's

00:55:37.219 --> 00:55:41.639
just so many great benefits to it. I think it

00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:44.860
could lead to other possibilities. Maybe you

00:55:44.860 --> 00:55:47.179
do find you really love working with grade three

00:55:47.179 --> 00:55:50.239
students and then you could go into being a grade

00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:52.400
three teacher or something like that. But I like

00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.420
the diversity of before and after school care.

00:55:55.619 --> 00:55:58.320
I like how much different types of activities

00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.420
we get to do. That's so fun. There's a lot. No

00:56:01.420 --> 00:56:03.159
one can see your face, but you're shining when

00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:06.059
you talk about all the amazing things that come

00:56:06.059 --> 00:56:09.099
with before and after school. This is why I do

00:56:09.099 --> 00:56:11.300
what I do. This is why I'm here is because of

00:56:11.300 --> 00:56:13.380
that passion that you're talking about and that

00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:15.199
you're alluding to. That's exactly what I feel

00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.260
when I talk about before and after school education

00:56:17.260 --> 00:56:20.760
and the children that we get to work with. Thank

00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:23.579
you so, so, so much for being here and sharing.

00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:27.219
Is there anything else you want to say? Is there

00:56:27.219 --> 00:56:29.920
a place that the listeners can reach out and

00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:33.280
ask questions about childcare, about BC, about,

00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:35.340
I mean, maybe Alberta, because you're moving

00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:38.059
there? I actually have a question for you. So

00:56:38.059 --> 00:56:40.840
there's some folks who have been advocating for

00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:43.320
like a universal childcare system in Canada.

00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:45.599
Like what are your thoughts on that? Do you think

00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.059
we should keep it provincial or do you think

00:56:48.059 --> 00:56:51.420
it's possible to have like an across Canada like

00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:54.690
structure? Oh, what a great question. Honestly,

00:56:54.690 --> 00:56:57.489
I think we're better in numbers. So if we could

00:56:57.489 --> 00:57:02.010
do universal, as long as it was built properly

00:57:02.010 --> 00:57:04.690
and they took into consideration early child

00:57:04.690 --> 00:57:06.789
educators who are in the field and working towards

00:57:06.789 --> 00:57:10.829
that and the individuals that actually do the

00:57:10.829 --> 00:57:13.329
research that are getting their masters in early

00:57:13.329 --> 00:57:15.670
childhood education that are on the floor working

00:57:15.670 --> 00:57:17.230
every day with these children, as long as they

00:57:17.230 --> 00:57:19.929
took that into account, I think a national sort

00:57:19.929 --> 00:57:25.769
of plan would be incredible. I think that we

00:57:25.769 --> 00:57:28.730
need this community. And I think that the older

00:57:28.730 --> 00:57:31.929
I get, the more the early child education community

00:57:31.929 --> 00:57:35.750
means to me, where when I first started, it was

00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:37.409
like, yeah, I'm an educator. I like the people

00:57:37.409 --> 00:57:39.670
I work with. This is great. But like on a national

00:57:39.670 --> 00:57:42.349
level, everyone is doing this incredible work.

00:57:42.650 --> 00:57:44.550
And I think that we could really help each other

00:57:44.550 --> 00:57:46.849
out and be a part of something great if it was

00:57:46.849 --> 00:57:50.139
if it was looked at that way. I think Wow. That

00:57:50.139 --> 00:57:52.719
would be a dream come true. What do you think?

00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:54.760
Why are your thoughts similar? Do you think that

00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:56.179
it's better if we do a province to province?

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:58.739
I don't know yet. That's why I kind of wanted

00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:00.719
to ask you. Like it's something I think about.

00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:03.300
I like everything you just said. So yeah, if

00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:06.539
it was built on that foundation of like, but

00:58:06.539 --> 00:58:09.420
it would, it would take a lot of dedication to

00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:12.400
making sure that educators' voices and experiences

00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:16.139
are actually centered in whatever structure we

00:58:16.139 --> 00:58:18.739
make. Cause so often it feels like policy is

00:58:18.739 --> 00:58:21.329
made. but it doesn't actually like, it's not

00:58:21.329 --> 00:58:23.989
coming from the people doing that, that work,

00:58:24.170 --> 00:58:26.969
like the work with families directly. So, but

00:58:26.969 --> 00:58:29.909
it would be really amazing because it would also

00:58:29.909 --> 00:58:33.389
mean we could streamline some of the certification

00:58:33.389 --> 00:58:36.389
processes and like professionalize the career,

00:58:36.510 --> 00:58:38.710
like you were saying. Yeah. And it would be nice

00:58:38.710 --> 00:58:41.289
because then maybe you could like go and work

00:58:41.289 --> 00:58:44.260
in different provinces for a little bit. Right.

00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:47.340
So the community could become maybe more tight

00:58:47.340 --> 00:58:49.699
knit, even though it's bigger. Yeah. Where if

00:58:49.699 --> 00:58:52.840
I was leaving Ontario to go work in BC, I wouldn't

00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.000
have to change my credentials to do that. I could,

00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:57.360
I would already be okay to work there. I think

00:58:57.360 --> 00:58:58.800
that would be important, but you're absolutely

00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:01.199
right. Right now. And I will call it out the

00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:03.719
way it is. The people that are making the rules

00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:06.239
for early child educators are sitting in offices

00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:09.039
that have no children around them. If they do,

00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:11.719
it's the kids that are being watched by educators

00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:14.139
while they're at work all day. And they don't,

00:59:14.139 --> 00:59:16.320
they're not in it. They don't know what we deal

00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:18.480
with, what we go through, the good, the bad,

00:59:18.579 --> 00:59:20.079
the ugly. They don't know any of that. And they

00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:21.880
shouldn't be the ones that are making rules for

00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:24.400
us. Absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know.

00:59:24.460 --> 00:59:27.130
It would be, I think it's a cool. dream. And

00:59:27.130 --> 00:59:29.150
that's why I wanted to ask you your perspective,

00:59:29.170 --> 00:59:31.730
because I think it's worth thinking about and

00:59:31.730 --> 00:59:34.389
like imagining, but I don't totally know like

00:59:34.389 --> 00:59:36.789
how to go about it yet. So it's just something

00:59:36.789 --> 00:59:40.190
I wanted to see. No, I'm glad you asked because

00:59:40.190 --> 00:59:42.670
yeah, it's definitely not something I had really

00:59:42.670 --> 00:59:45.269
thought about before, but it's... And as far

00:59:45.269 --> 00:59:48.250
as like reaching out to me, I have Facebook,

00:59:48.829 --> 00:59:52.809
I have LinkedIn, I have Blue Sky now. What is

00:59:52.809 --> 00:59:58.130
Blue Sky? Like the alternative Twitter or X.

00:59:58.329 --> 01:00:01.130
Yeah. So those are the social media that I have,

01:00:01.369 --> 01:00:03.789
but I can also give you my email address if you

01:00:03.789 --> 01:00:07.710
want. I don't know. I'm available for questions

01:00:07.710 --> 01:00:11.110
on social media. I don't have a website right

01:00:11.110 --> 01:00:14.050
now, but maybe later. No, that's okay. You know

01:00:14.050 --> 01:00:16.570
what? Facebook and LinkedIn. LinkedIn's huge

01:00:16.570 --> 01:00:18.610
now. LinkedIn. And now Blue Sky. I got to check

01:00:18.610 --> 01:00:20.170
out this Blue Sky because I had never heard of

01:00:20.170 --> 01:00:22.639
it. So that's really great. Aw, thank you for

01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:26.159
spending your... Wow, okay, afternoon. It's gonna

01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:28.599
be 3 .30, right? I finally... You guys have no

01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:30.440
idea how long we've been talking, and it's taking

01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:32.019
me to wrap my head around that they're three

01:00:32.019 --> 01:00:35.380
hours behind. So strange, right? But thank you

01:00:35.380 --> 01:00:37.960
so much for having me. This conversation is like,

01:00:38.019 --> 01:00:40.139
these are always things I'm thinking about, so

01:00:40.139 --> 01:00:41.920
it's just really nice to share it with somebody

01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:44.260
else who... also is always thinking about these

01:00:44.260 --> 01:00:47.460
things, you know? Oh, amazing. Yeah. Well, thank

01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:50.239
you everyone. And the show nuts, I'll leave.

01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:53.599
I'll leave where to find Kaylee. And I hope everyone

01:00:53.599 --> 01:01:04.829
has a fantastic day. Bye. Thank you. Amazing

01:01:04.829 --> 01:01:07.070
listeners for your support. Don't forget to follow

01:01:07.070 --> 01:01:09.909
me on Instagram at miss Jamie underscore REC.

01:01:10.489 --> 01:01:13.369
Give a star rating and leave a review. Have something

01:01:13.369 --> 01:01:15.610
you want to hear about in relation to before

01:01:15.610 --> 01:01:17.530
and after school programs or full day summer

01:01:17.530 --> 01:01:20.849
camp. DM me or comment. Again, thank you so much

01:01:20.849 --> 01:01:21.909
and happy learning.