Welcome back to the forgotten ECE with Miss Jamie.
I'm so excited that you're in and tuning in and listening.
And I'm super excited to tell you about today's episode in this episode titled Beyond the
Bell the hidden impact of afterschool professionals.
We're turning the spotlight on the crucial yet often overlooked role of before and afterschool
programs.
If you're not new here today, you definitely understand that we talk a lot about the forgotten
ECE in the sense of before and afterschool educators and school age educators.
And today is no different.
Our guest star today is Erica Sikoccio from the childcare director's chair podcast.
Welcome Erica.
Hi guys.
Hi, I'm so happy to be here for so many reasons.
One, which one of my favorite podcast is Miss Jamie and two talking about one of my favorite
topics.
Oh, I'm so great.
You're here when we first met and you said that you started before and afterschool programming.
I was so excited.
Together we're going to explore the significant impact these programs and their dedicated
professionals have on children despite frequently being overshadowed in discussions about quality
education and care.
We'll dive into the challenges they face, including issues with funding, recognition
and quality rating systems and discuss how we can advocate for more equitable support
and opportunities for this vital sector.
Erica, again, I'm so happy to have you here.
Could you start by describing the typical structure and objectives of the before and
afterschool programs?
I would say, well, all programs are a little bit different, but for us, the structure really
focuses on academic supports.
And in addition to that, social and emotional supports, I think that it's a nice balance
of the two, right, because it's great to have academic supports and being a good student
is important, but being a good person who's well adjusted is equally important.
And I would say, not to sound cliche, but more now than ever, because, you know, we're
still dealing with impacts of just the changing world that has happened in the last five or
six years.
I have to say, too, I think that some of us who have been in the field a long time have
noticed a difference in the children, have noticed a difference in the parents.
And so we have to kind of adapt to that too and decide on what is best for our programs
and how do we navigate that?
You know, and sometimes it's new additional trainings that you might have to take.
Maybe it's, you know, re-looking at your program to see is the program you're working on meeting
the needs of families.
Absolutely.
I love how you said that.
And you're so right.
There has to be that balance between academic help and also emotional support.
And there's so much asked of them nowadays in school, like looking at the kids' homework
and stuff from even grade three, from when I was in grade three, I know times have changed,
but they're learning so much more and more intense things in those grades and that they
need that downtime and they need that time to be themselves for sure.
Yeah, I think too, children are, and I'm always very positive, but I think there are things
that we need to consider when we're looking at the students that we're serving now as
opposed to 10 years ago, right?
So children are dealing with social media.
They're worried about what people are saying about them and all of those influences that
come in.
Before when you had a bully at school, it was usually just that small network of people
who knew about that.
Now it's like everyone knows, right?
So children are dealing with that.
You're also worried about going to school and having harm done to you from either somebody
who breaks into your school or a classmate.
So they have these additional stressors that we didn't have 10 years ago.
And even if the kids aren't articulating it, it's a real stressor that they are surrounded
with every day.
They see it every day on media, on the TV, on the radio, you know, what the parents are
talking about.
There's just a lot of changes for them that create this additional support center needed.
You're so right.
There's things that happened now that I would have never even imagined happening when I
was in school.
And kind of going off of that, like how do you think, what do you think is the best way
to address these concerns within your program?
I think a team approach is always good.
Sitting down, kind of talk about what you're seeing.
I would say meeting with parents as well and getting some of their ideas and feedback and
then coming up with a plan.
And because when you work with school leads kids, the nice thing is they are so vocal.
And so, you know, involve them in the conversation.
I think, you know, if everybody talks about it and then says, okay, here's going to be
our plan.
And then also not even just having a safety plan, but also what are the rules in your
center?
You know, maybe it's no technology, maybe it's no bullying, you know, maybe it's a combination,
but you have to have the conversation.
You can't just ignore it as though it doesn't exist.
Right.
And then also building off the positives too, right?
Not just focusing on those negatives, but what are the positive things?
What are the positive things that we can learn and how can we use social media in a positive
way?
Right.
So like you're a podcaster, right?
Maybe it looks like you guys create a show, a podcast show run by kids talking about great
things that are going on in the community.
Right.
So focusing on the positive, I think also gives kids a chance to connect, feel good
about themselves because it's really easy to get sucked into this world of fake social
and not feeling good enough, pretty enough, smart enough, or all the comparisons that
we make.
Right.
And we do it as adults, nevermind a 10 year old child who's just starting puberty, right?
And they're comparing themselves to all these folks that that idolize.
Right.
So I think that we could use these things in a positive way and have the conversations
about it.
You're absolutely right.
I agree 100% especially because the technology is not going anywhere.
The media is not going anywhere.
So being able to sew into arm, quote unquote arm, or teach children the benefits of it
and how they can use it in a positive way, that's a great idea.
Kind of on the same line of challenges, what are some of the key challenges that after
school professionals face in terms of funding and resources when compared to the traditional
educators?
Oh, okay.
So let me start with an example.
So in our state we had, and I'm from, for those of you who don't know me, I'm from Rhode
Island, which is the smallest state in the US.
So when they opened up the quality rating systems in our, in our suits, before it even
was implemented, they had all these focus groups.
And I can remember being in a room with, I don't know, probably 200 educators at all
different levels and we were putting together the framework.
And of the 200 professionals, I think there was three of us that represented school age,
three.
And I'm not even sure that we were invited to the table.
We might've been, we might've strong-holded ourselves in the table.
We might've said, hey, where's our invite?
To be honest.
And the other two that went to the table were really big organizations.
It was like a YMCA and a Boys and Girls Club, and then me, like this little small private
program.
But a lot of times we don't get invited to the conversation.
So that's number one.
You have to advocate for yourself.
You can't just always wait for that invitation.
The other thing is if you look at here in the US, like NAZI, like what is early childhood
education?
What are the ages?
Right?
It doesn't stop at five.
And my biggest like screening from the rooftop is quality education doesn't stop at five.
Kids don't now not need a good teacher and not need good environments.
Of course they do.
Right?
I feel like some of the struggles would be not being invited to the table.
When the quality rating system was put in place and money was tied to it, we were not
allowed to get that money.
So if you ran a sole school-age program, you were not able to access those funds because
the funds came from the federal government and it was earmarked for early childhood education,
which they said ended when children went to kindergarten.
So obviously that's not true.
Right?
Because I feel like early childhood education goes up to at least the age of eight.
So why are we not supporting educators all the way around?
So you and I and all of those listening know that this is already a problem.
What I'm going to say to you though, I want to ask you to be reflective for a minute.
And I don't know if in Canada you probably don't have NAZI there, but you may have some
type of agency like that.
Who is your leading body in your country for early childhood education?
And are you a member of that group?
And are you an active member of that group?
Because it's one thing to buy the t-shirt, get the card and do nothing.
Right?
So you have to be part of that conversation because as they say, the squeaky wheel gets
the grease.
You got to write the letters.
You got to talk to your community.
You know what?
You don't even have to wait for anybody.
Just exactly what you're doing right now, Jamie.
You created a podcast to say, these are the issues that we're facing.
You're very much an advocate.
Right?
But we need everybody to do that.
And the more of us that stand up, the more that we'll get some action to take place.
And that's what happens with these larger groups.
Whether it's public school teachers, because they have a union that fights for them really
hard or early childhood education in the sense of infant to five-year-olds, they have here
in the US NAZI, which and many other organizations, but really fight for early childhood education.
We fall through the cracks.
So we have to fill those cracks and you got to get involved.
I joined the group of NAZI and my Rhode Island affiliate, and I am an active board member.
I'm on the board because I needed to make sure that we had a voice in my state, but
I'm just one girl.
So if we all just said, hey, I'm going to take this state or this section or sector.
I know you guys break up your places a little bit differently.
Yeah.
I think if everybody says, I'm going to do it because if not you, who's going to do it?
Stop complaining.
I'm going to take action.
You are speaking my language.
You just got me so excited, but absolutely.
There's so many people, especially right now.
So we actually have the College of ECEs, which we have to pay into in Ontario.
It's like a regulating body.
So really they're not really for educators.
They're for people to see early childhood education as professionals, but everyone complains
about how much they cost and how much we have to pay into that and what they're actually
doing for educators, even though the whole part of it is to show our profession as professional.
And I'm not saying this is not, I'm not saying whether I agree with it or not.
What I'm saying is that people complain and everyone goes on social media and they talk
about how awful it is.
But when it comes down to reaching out to this college or comes down to reaching out
to the government, no one wants to do anything about it.
And that's what's frustrating.
And it goes right down to before and after school programs.
For years, I was an educator in before and after school programs and I'd go to these
professional developments and they talk about infants and preschool and kinder or infants
and preschool or toddlers and never ever, ever touch on before and after school.
And I would ask, I'd be like, okay, how does this relevant to before and after school?
And oh, well, and I'm like, this is pathetic.
Like we need people that are experts in this field for professional development.
And overall, we need people advocating for it, but people have to do that.
They have to get up and advocate for it.
So let's get real specific, Jamie, for those of you listening, you're the people we're
talking about.
Yes.
We need you.
So maybe Jamie, maybe it isn't they don't want to because obviously they're just up
with the writing about social media.
Maybe you'll do an episode on how to advocate.
Where are the places that we can go?
And I will too.
I will too.
Yes, that's a great idea.
You can cover Canada.
Let's talk about it.
Let's see how we can help people understand because it can seem overwhelming.
You and I, we're very extrovert.
We have big personalities and voices and we just don't care.
We're going to say what we want to say.
But not everybody has that personality.
So that's okay.
You can craft a letter and you don't even have to worry about it being perfect because
now there's this thing called chat.
There's granola.
There's all these things that can help you.
You put your ideas in, you put your concerns in, you put your suggestions in and not only
just complain.
That's the other thing.
People like to complain.
Come to the table with some solutions.
That is the worst when you're like, oh, this isn't right.
Come to the table with some solutions.
Now they may not take everybody's solutions, but I promise they're going to take some,
right?
Because we're not going to move forward if we don't take some action.
So sorry, we're off on a tangent here.
I know.
We'll wrap it back.
Yeah, we'll wrap it back up.
I'm sorry, but I just really love school aides and I would love to see them, the programs
continue to thrive.
That's all.
But it's people like you that this passion that is igniting in you as we talk, like this
is exactly why I do what I do.
It's like this, there are people like this that like us in before and after school education,
they just don't know how to make it work because of some of the pushbacks.
But that's why I asked you here today so that we can talk about some of the pushbacks and
but also just just advocate for before and after school education.
Oh, I love you.
All right.
Bringing it back a little bit.
How are after school professionals currently represented in national discussions about
education and childcare?
And could you provide some examples where they have been overlooked and undervalued?
Well, I just think they're just not part of the conversation.
There we have in the US, we have the national, we have like three, but we have the National
After School Association.
Oh, yeah.
So if you don't know who they are, go on their website because they have lots of resources
that can go across, you know, countries.
So they do represent us in a great way at other places that matter.
And they do have a pretty good membership.
So I think, you know, many of the other age groups that are service, they have lots of
groups that represent them.
We may have one or two.
So again, it just kind of goes back to, you know, not being part of the conversation or,
you know, it's funny because I feel like because I've had the opportunity to work in two of
the three.
But if you're a teacher in a public school, you're considered a real teacher.
If you work in early childhood education, some people are starting to get, oh, you're
an early educator, you're an early childhood educator.
After school, we're still like, oh, you're the people who watch the kids after school,
you know, when they run around in the play yard.
Oh, or you know, you're the homework helper, right?
And we do so much more than that.
So I hate to keep saying, but it really, it really takes us to showcase what we do.
So maybe it's, you know, maybe it's just that we all have social media.
Social media is very powerful.
Show what you're doing in your programs.
Show what, you know, I don't know what qualifications you all have to have there to work in after
school program.
But if you do have folks that are completing degrees or have degrees, showcase that, you
know, on your platforms and say, you know, congratulations, like this teacher who runs
our program has our master's degree in youth development, you know.
So I think it takes us to shine a spotlight on it.
I agree completely.
One of the things we do here at the childcare center that I run is for all our programs,
when you walk into our front hall, we have this like a bookshelf type thing, and it has
a picture of the educator and it has their diploma from whatever diploma they have to
show because I want the families coming into our center to know that these are professionals.
Everyone that works here at my center is a professional.
They're an educator.
Yeah.
So Jamie, and that's awesome.
But how do people outside of your program?
Well, exactly.
Yeah.
I think that's one step for sure when you're doing the tours and say, like, this is what
we do, like this is serious business for us.
But you know, how about a picture in the local paper of all of your staff, right?
So that's what I mean, like just making that bigger impact.
Jamie, you're such a great leader.
I think everybody, everybody just thought about their leadership style, because there's
lots of different leadership styles, right?
Ours is similar, but there's other leadership styles.
Think about what your leadership style.
When I say leadership style, again, I'm not talking about a title.
I'm not, yeah, I can be talking to the school van bus driver, right?
Because you're the face of my program when you go to the schools and pick up the children,
right?
You're the face of my school, my company, my brand, right?
So you're probably more impactful than the person who's in the building because nobody
sees them, except for the people who come to that school, right?
But everybody sees you in the community.
So you know, what can you do?
Think about what can you do at every level in your program and how can we work together
to help amplify the message?
Yes, that's a great point.
And I agree, like it doesn't matter what your role is within the center or within the school.
You are a leader.
You have the ability to be a leader.
You had talked a little about earlier the rating qualities in the states.
Do you want to touch on like afterschool programs and how they differ or how they're used to
for traditional educational settings?
Sure.
So here in our state, in every state is different.
Here in our state, it's the same agency that gives you your Bright Stars rating, but we
just use a different book.
It's called the CACERS.
I don't know if you guys use it because that is a global tool, the CACERS rating scale.
So we use that, which is a little bit different than ECHRs and ITERs.
Oh, yes.
Yes, okay.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
We use that in our state and we use that to assess quality.
Also I think too, and I don't think NAA is doing it anymore, but they used to do afterschool
accreditation.
And again, that was such a great process.
I loved it.
We did it with our team probably about, I'm dating myself, 17 years ago, 18 years ago.
We were the first in our state to earn that credential for our program.
But the process of it was amazing.
It wasn't really about getting that certificate to hang on the wall at the end of the day.
It was the work that we had put in as a group that just said, look, we really not only reached
the standards, but in some cases, you set the standard.
And for us, we were setting the standard saying, hey, in our state, afterschool matters.
And this is what a high quality program looks like.
And not for ego, it was to set the example and say to everyone else who ran an afterschool
program, let's do this.
Let's showcase and show people that this is what we do.
This is our passion, our livelihood.
I worked in afterschool all day long.
I did beforeschool, mid-J kindergarten, afterschool.
It wasn't like I worked there for two hours because that's the other misconception.
Oh, it's three to five, it's beyond the bell.
Yes, beyond the bell, but it takes a whole lot of preparation before that bell rings.
So yeah, there's that.
Yes.
And that preparation goes into how amazing the programs end up being for the children.
Can you talk about the impact on children and how before and afterschool programs contribute
to children's development and well-being?
I can.
So let's start first with the friendships.
The friendships that children make in before and afterschool programs last a lifetime in
my experience.
I have also seen kids who, yesterday, here's a perfect example.
Yesterday, my daughter wasn't feeling well.
We went to the emergency room.
She was okay.
But we saw a former student there.
And I said to the mom, I said, how's Jeff?
She said, he's great.
I said, is he still doing music?
He loved music.
She said, yeah, he moved to Atlanta.
He is with his friend that he met and they're producing music in a real sense.
To a point where he moved from one state to Atlanta because that's where music happened.
But that interest and that love for music really was cultivated at our afterschool program.
He is now a producer 10 years later.
So those are the impacts.
We really went into music and art in our program.
Every program has their special ooh la la, if you will, what they bring to the table.
And a lot of that comes from the staff and the things that they like and they're excited
about and that they have the skill set to teach.
So everybody's looks a little bit different.
Also your philosophy looks a little different.
Who you serve looks a little different.
So at our school just happened to be that.
I also had these seven girls who liked to dance after school.
And so we had this little gym and they started to dance there.
And then they would tell their friends and they were kind of older.
They were like middle school.
And some kids were like at their school, like, why do you go to a daycare?
Like that's weird.
You're old.
And they're like, no, you're weird.
So they started dancing at the afterschool program.
We gave them the space.
After their friends learned that they were dancing and that they really loved it.
And then they started doing competitions.
We ended up with 90, I'm going to say again, 90 students who enrolled in our dance program.
We had to get an entirely different building.
Oh my gosh.
Four years, four years we ran a dance studio.
That is the impact that you can have as an afterschool person.
That gave me goosebumps.
Like it's just, you foster this love of, of things that they might not, that children
might not have the opportunity to do in school or at home or that you foster this and it
grows so big and that's, that's such a great story.
Yeah, that's true.
Wow.
So it's those things.
It's things that you really can help a child determine what they want to do.
You know, that age old question, what do you want to be when you grow up?
Like afterschool programs is really where a lot of that comes from.
And if you haven't listened to some of the great speakers that speak, they talk about
the impact of the Boys and Girls Club on their life or, you know, the YMCA or, you know,
whatever afterschool program they went to.
A lot of sports people will talk about, athletes talk about how they started playing basketball
at the Boys and Girls Club or, you know, so we foster, we foster where these kids like
that, that sport happens and we cultivate it.
We cultivate it.
Oh, I guess you're so right.
And it's so, it's heartwarming hearing the success stories.
Children in our before and afterschool programs or they should really be able to try new things
and attempt new skills that they might not have the opportunity to do elsewhere.
I remember one of my first times at this in the school I run now, I was doing a supervisor
role and a before and afterschool role and I was able to get a small engine from a farmer
and I brought it in for the one day and the kids got to take it apart and they could do
whatever they wanted to.
Obviously we had like the safety goggles and stuff.
There was rules around it that they made, but it's just that they would never have the
opportunity to take apart an engine before.
And I was like, why not?
Like they love getting messy.
They love working with their hands.
They should be able to try these things.
We talked a little bit about advocacy, but what steps can be taken to better recognize
and support afterschool professionals in your opinion?
And are there any current initiatives and or movements aimed in addressing these disparities?
Okay, any steps, any one step, pick any one step that you feel comfortable with and do
it, right?
And if there's nothing you feel comfortable with, get outside of your comfort zone and
try the least restrictive, easiest thing to do.
I can't really say that there's any initiatives per se here.
I don't know if there is where you are.
There's not really a lot.
I will say though, I find it interesting that the not real teachers during the pandemic
turned their entire afterschool programs into makeshift schools.
Yes.
Right.
So I want to say that to all of you out there who worked during the pandemic and did distance
learning at your programs and stepped up when traditional schools were not able to open.
Thank you.
I want to say that.
I have to echo that.
There are so many people, thank you.
There's so many people really flipped on a dime on how they executed their programs
and just became the be all and end all for educators and for those families support.
And they definitely don't have the recognition that they deserve.
I mean, you never saw that story anywhere in the pandemic.
All you heard was schools were closed, schools are closed, kids had to DDL.
There was no conversation.
There was no big news press release about the impact that that had and the role that
afterschool programs played in stepping up for families so they could continue to work.
So I guess I would say back to your question, that could have been a place to start.
Pay attention to what's going on in the industry right now and then see what you can do about
blog about it.
Write a letter to your local newspaper about it.
Whatever it is that you can do to like showcase because they're not really coming and saying,
hey, you know, they're not knocking on your door and say, Jamie, tell me the great things
that are going on in your program.
But I promise you if one of your teachers gave a kid melatonin, you would be on the
news.
Oh, yes.
Of course.
So the only thing that they show on the news is these horror stories.
And of course, obviously, those are important.
We all need to be transparent in our industry.
But at the same time, should we also be sharing the successes of what's going on here?
Absolutely.
Looking ahead, what changes would you like to see in the future regarding the support
and recognition of afterschool programs?
I would like it to happen.
So, you know, maybe maybe it comes to we all talk about it.
You know, that's the great thing about podcasters and bloggers and bloggers and social media
influences.
If you have a following of, you know, I don't even care.
It doesn't matter.
Micro influencer, mega influencer.
If you're in this space and education, because we do need to stick together, you should be
talking about all of the different types of educators.
Right.
So I know that goes against everything they tell us because they love to divide and conquer
people.
So, you know, they'll tell you even even with you, they tell you to niche it down, only
talk about one thing.
And this is, you know, like really fine tune it.
OK, that's great.
You can be a specialist in an area.
But at the same time, I have as much respect for a family child care provider, a center
owner, school teacher, an afterschool person, teacher.
I have the same respect for all of them.
I have respect for the janitor.
I respect for the landscape.
They can't run our schools without them.
They're an integral part of health and safety of our schools.
Right.
So I think we all should be on our platform supporting each other.
I think that's some important thing.
And we all have a circle of influence, some of us bigger than others.
And if you have a big platform, shame on you.
If you're not supporting all shame on you.
I'm going to say that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And how can our listeners become involved in advocating for these changes?
So number one is using your platforms to advocate for education, obviously.
What else do you think?
Become part of a membership group that works on advocacy because that'll make it easier
for you.
They will let you know what initiatives are coming out, when you can go, what the dates
are.
We have we're lucky here in Rhode Island, we have our state affiliate for NAACP.
And so they let us know.
They say they'll I mean, they'll write the letter for you and say, here, here's the legislator
in your area, put your name on it and send it right.
So just start I think just start somewhere.
That's my best advice.
Go online because obviously, we could be having listeners anywhere in the world.
So find who makes the decisions, who is leading the charge and connect with them.
That would be the best advice because my answer is going to be different than yours because
we're in different countries.
But yeah, I would say find out in your country who makes the decisions and how you can get
involved.
So start small or if you're like me and Jamie, rip the bandaid off and absolutely.
Where's the tree to tie us to?
I will be there.
I'm just kidding.
For those of you listening Ontario, it's the AECO is the big one for us.
And they they do the exact same thing.
Erica, they they write the letters, they tell you who's who you're sending these letters
to.
All you have to do is sign your name.
Jamie, have they been on your show?
They have not yet.
No.
Get them on your show.
Tell them what you're trying to do.
And you know, trying to say, hey, you know, I want to really help get the after school
folks energized.
Great idea.
Motivated to help.
And a lot of people don't know where to start.
So if that's their specialty and that's what they do and that's what they have for should
be very, very easy for them to get on the show and give step by step by step directions
for your listeners.
Great idea.
Thanks, Erica.
Is there any resources that you want our listeners to know that in Rhode Island or the USA that
we haven't talked about for educators?
No, because there's so many I couldn't list them all.
What I would say is go on to Google, type in the things that matter to you.
Maybe because it could be not every after school.
See, we even lumped in our after school folks.
Some of our after school folks might be really into STEM.
Others, they're really into something else.
So what matters the most to you and connect with those agencies?
Right.
And the same thing going back to your questions like way at the beginning about funding and
stuff like that.
So if you're in STEM, there's lots of money available for STEM, not only through the public
sectors but also the private sectors.
Like I know Lego does a whole lot around Lego clubs and STEM initiatives, right?
See what they have available for after school programs, for grants.
It might not be money.
It might be materials.
Maybe they ship you, you know, 18 boxes of Legos, whatever it is.
Find the things that matter the most to you, your kids, your staff, and then go from there.
That's my best advice.
Amazing.
Thank you, Erica.
Erica, again, thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate all the work you do for childcare sector and the professional development.
How can the listeners find you?
We are on all the major listening platforms, Apple, Spotify, all the places.
It's the childcare director's chair podcast.
We also have a YouTube channel, same name.
And on Instagram, please give me some Instagram love because I'm not really that great with
the social media things.
I'm too busy, you know, advocating in real life.
But it is CCDC podcast, which is just abbreviated for childcare director chair podcast.
So yeah, come find me.
Come find me.
And I was thinking about doing some lives pretty soon too.
So yeah, that might be fun.
So I'll be posting that up on my IG channel pretty soon.
But I think we'll be doing some lives.
I love talking to people.
Obviously, Jamie.
And your energy is so contagious.
So people you need to go listen.
If you have not listened, do yourself a favor.
Leave here all excited and then go listen.
Thank you so much, Erica.
Thank you.
Have a great day, guys.
Bye, everyone.