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Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where before and after school educators, summer

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camp and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they are seen, heard and valued.

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I'm your host, Jamie Wakeler, and I'm so excited you're here.

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Welcome to the main event.

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Let's get ready to rumble.

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I don't know the rest of this song.

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Is that a great intro?

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That should be my intro all the time.

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Welcome to the Forgotten ECE podcast.

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On today's episode, we are going to see the quarter one, the school system, and quarter

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two, early childhood education.

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Okay.

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It's really not that extreme.

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We're actually going to be talking about shared spaces and the terrors of territory

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battles.

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I'm so dramatic.

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But in all honesty, we're going to be talking about shared spaces in the school system and

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what our before and after school and summer camp programs look like in the school system.

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Because if you're not in it, it might seem like it's all hunk of Dory and it might not

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be depending on who you are and where you are sharing a space.

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I am feeling all the feels right now because it is almost summer.

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Summer is so freaking close and summer is my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite,

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favorite time of year.

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That's not actually the whole truth.

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Fall is really my favorite.

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But okay.

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But for argument's sake, summer is my favorite because it brings on summer camp and all things

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hot and all things beautiful.

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I just love the thoughts of summer.

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But honestly, summer camp is my favorite, my hands down, my favorite program, I guess

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I would say.

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I love before and after school.

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I love really anything school age that's related to the childcare system center.

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But summer camp is what I live for because we get to see the kids that we only see on

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a short time daily if they're in our programs for longer days if they sign up.

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But we also get to meet so many new people and then they have the opportunity to have

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new people each week.

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Like technically you can meet a lot of new people, whatever 26 times eight is.

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Don't ask me to do the math.

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I could ask Siri right now, but that'd be a little embarrassing.

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Actually, I don't get embarrassed.

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That's easy.

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Siri, what's 28 times eight?

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224.

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You gave me 224 kids if you had 26 kids each week and there was eight weeks in the summer.

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Okay.

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I know unnecessary information, but this is really just how excited I am about summer camp.

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Do you know what I'm not excited for?

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I am not excited for sharing spaces.

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Okay.

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If you know me, I have a really great relationship with the school that my main center shares

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with so it's really not all bad.

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But I know people personally who have nightmare shared spaces.

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They have awful horror stories of shared spaces and what they're currently living with for

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their centers and for their programs is way less than ideal, which actually brings me

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to an interesting point.

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Did you know if you're in Ontario that the Ministry of Education has a working together

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in shared space document?

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That following five pages of the Ontario government's Ministry of Education's working together in

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shared space document.

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That's what it says on the first page just so you know.

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It also says appendix F and I'm not really sure what appendix F is or what the bigger

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document is, but for argument's sake, this is literally about shared spaces, specifically

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within the school centers.

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It's funny because before this week actually, well, I guess before last Friday, I didn't

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know this was a thing.

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I didn't know there was a document from the Ministry of Education on shared spaces and

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maybe that's my bad.

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Maybe I should have known.

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I don't know.

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Did you know?

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Did you know?

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Did you know before you listen to this episode today?

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Sorry, that was my chair.

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Did you know there was this document about child cares and schools working together in

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a shared space?

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I did not.

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But as I read it, I thought, hmm, it's interesting what the Ontario government's vision is.

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And what is actually happening.

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So I thought it would be really fun to go through the document, piece it apart a little

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and talk about my experiences or things that I've know or heard or grapevines.

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And if you had any say on the matter and wanted to share it with me, when you hear this episode,

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I would be more than willing to listen or gather that information or even have you in

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to talk because the only way we're going to break this stigma and the only way we're ever

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going to get along with each other and that they each other being schools and childcare

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centers is if we're on the same page, if we work together, if we collaborate, if we get

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along really put up with each other.

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Anyways, so to start, it says that the Ministry of Education supports an integrated early

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years and childcare system in which the school board and childcare professionals work in

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partnership to provide seamless high quality programs for children throughout the day.

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Who is seamless here?

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I'm pretty seamless here actually, but with everyone is every center that's running with

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a school within a school seamless.

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If we step out of schools right now, if we are looking at centers that run shared spaces

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that are in churches, in community centers, is it seamless?

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I don't know if I would call it seamless from what I see.

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I am beyond fortunate with my main site because we no longer share a room.

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The before and after school room is ours.

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We get to keep our stuff up, the children get to come in, we get to have it for PD days

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that the school has, we get to utilize the room however we see fit really, but it's our

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space.

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So all of my before and after school stuff gets to stay here and the children get a feel

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for a real room.

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There's only one actual center that I've met, one actual center, one or two other centers

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that I know that have a designated room for their before and after school programs.

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But like I said, I don't know everyone.

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I don't know a lot of people.

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So if you're one of those fortunate ones, I'd love to hear from you too on your take

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of it, what you think you like about it, what maybe you don't like, maybe you hate it, maybe

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you'd rather share the school.

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I don't know.

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I want to know.

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Anyways, so the government is saying that Ontario's vision is that we have these high

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quality, inclusive and affordable early years and childcare programs, whether that be in

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the center or shared with a school.

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But when it comes down to it, A, where's this money coming from that are opening all these

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high quality centers?

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Where's the money come to pay the high quality staff?

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But also where's the schools jumping up and down saying, we want care in here?

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Because I don't really see them and the schools that have childcare centers in them, some

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of them don't treat their childcare centers very good.

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There's a lot of walking on glass and eggshells and I don't think that's very inclusive or

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friendly or high quality.

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I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

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There is such a demand for before and after school care because who is working between

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the hours of nine 30 and three or, oh my gosh, if it was my kid's school, it would be nine

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o'clock to...

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I would have to work from nine to two, maybe two 30 to be able to get them to and from

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school.

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I just can't remember my fingers how many hours it is.

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That's why I was quiet.

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I think it's five hours, nine, 10, 10 to 11, 12 to one, one to two, five and a half hours.

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Who has a career in five and a half hours?

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I don't.

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I definitely don't.

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I am fortunate enough to come from a two person, well, four person, a two income household.

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So my shift can start early, my husband's shift can start later and that works out for us.

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But someone's always picking up the kids and it wasn't always like this.

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So the demand is definitely there and for affordable, affordable care, which is also

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not really being met, but that's not really the school's fault.

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That's more the government and the childcare center, but it's okay.

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Anyways, back to the real problem here.

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And that's the reason that it's important is because the Ontario government is saying

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that there is an increased emphasis on the need for school principals and childcare supervisors

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and recreation providers and staff to work together.

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Who is working together?

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That's what I want to know.

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We do a pretty good job here, but even here has its flaws.

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For example, when I started working here, our center is at one side of the school and

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obviously the other side of the school, the rest of the school is a school.

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We had our dishwasher in the teacher's staff room, which we never used the teacher's staff

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room, but we use the dishwasher always because we have to watch dishes.

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And very soon it was regulated, quote unquote, when we could use the dishwasher because it

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was hot and loud for the teachers in the staff room.

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And then it was when the teachers and the EAs had their breaks, we couldn't go down

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there and we run half day programs, so it was hard to ensure that our dishes are washed

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and ready to go for the next program when we could not run the dishwasher in between

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programs.

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Which got super messy.

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Regardless, I worked my butt off to be able to provide, to provide, I didn't do it all

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myself by all means, had some help, had a lot of support to get a brand new dishwasher

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and have it set up in one of our rooms so that we could use the dishes whenever we really

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wanted to.

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It's actually an herbivore and after school room tucked away, but it's perfect.

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And we've never had to go down and go into the staff room again, which takes a lot of

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anxiety off my educators.

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Me personally, I don't know if you can tell, but I'm kind of in your face and super friendly

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and outgoing and really not a lot of people are mean to my face because I am too friendly.

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I don't know.

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They're probably mean behind my back, but they're not mean to my face, which is great.

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And I can stand up for myself and kind of obnoxious and also super talented.

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I'm really pretty and really smart.

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So it's not all bad qualities.

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Don't think I'm selling myself short.

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I'm just saying that it's harder for me not to wiggle my way into situations and say,

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hey, how's it going?

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And get friendly with people.

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So I didn't get a lot of pushback when I went down there, but I did.

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I do know that some of my educators did.

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Some of my educators got a lot of pushback or, oh, they're there again, or, oh, you have

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to do the dishes again, or, it's so hot.

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Like really?

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We're working together and I promise you the last thing we want to be doing is going down

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there bugging you while we do dishes.

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But that's not what was seen.

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What was seen was that we were in their space.

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So we moved the dishwasher down and then I thought everything would be great.

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Had to wait for the old dishwasher to get out because it's not something that I could

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just do myself, I guess, technically, because, you know, plumbers and stuff.

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But what I wasn't expecting is a day or two after we got the new dishwasher installed

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and the old dishwasher disconnected, waiting for someone to come pick it up.

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I was getting slack from some of the school people about moving my dishwasher out of their

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staff room, which it's now been out for like a week and there's nothing in there, but that's

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in its spot.

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But I mean, what?

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No.

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Thanks for doing that.

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Really appreciate you moving the dishwasher.

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I know it was causing a lot of grief for educators.

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Thanks so much.

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Nope.

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Just why are you getting rid of that?

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It's in the way.

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It's not in the way because it's been there for at least four years and it was fine when

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we were using it.

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So what is the problem?

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But it's fine.

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Sorry for the rant.

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Anyways, so I know this is all to say, I know that it's not always the easiest to share

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spaces and that even when you have a good relationship, there's going to be parts that

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aren't so great.

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Now Ontario, in this document, Ontario also talks about the view of the children, which

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is that all children are competent and capable of complex thinking, curious and rich in potential

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and experiences, which we all know and gather.

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We agree with that and they agree with that.

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So why are they supposed to agree with that?

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So what is the issue here?

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If we are believing that children are competent and capable of anything, capable of complex

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thinking and curious and rich in potential, then how come we are not allowing children

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to share materials or share spaces with the school?

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How come in classrooms we're not allowed to touch their toys or we are asked to put our

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stuff away and we're asked to hide our stuff away and that there's places that literally

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forbid people from going into certain rooms?

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I just, if we are believing that children are competent and capable, shouldn't we believe

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that they're respectful and give them the opportunity to be respectful?

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And that actually leads me into my next point because it also talks about how we view educators

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as competent and capable and curious and rich in experience and that we're knowledgeable

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and caring.

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If these are all true, if Ontario really believes about this and that the school boards are

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really supposed to believe this, then how come we're treated differently than teachers?

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How come we are not treated as quote unquote guests in the room or shared?

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If we're really shared, are we a guest?

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Not really.

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We have every right to be there too on the times that it's our time.

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How come there's so much slack about what we use and sharing markers and oh my gosh,

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toys?

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You can't touch those blocks.

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You can't touch those toys.

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What do you mean?

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These kids were in your class 10 minutes ago and now they can't play with the toys that

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they were playing with all day?

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It doesn't make sense to me.

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Where is this line?

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Where is it?

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Where's the collaboration and the communication and the other C word that's escaping me?

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Compromise.

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I knew I'd think about it.

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It's just hard.

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It's absolutely hard.

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I know centers that have to run out of gyms, but they aren't giving any storage areas,

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so they have one little shelf and that's how they have to run their whole program off a

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little shelf.

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But at the other side of this is the government, Ontario, the Ministry of Education is saying

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that they value these programs, that they're important to society and that they're important

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to the community.

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But are they important if you don't think that they need anything?

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Are they important if you're not giving a little?

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Are they important if you are not willing to share or not willing to even talk politely

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to each other?

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It blows my mind.

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And I'm not saying that ECs are perfect.

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I'm coming from my point of view and I know there's educators that aren't as responsible

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or educators that aren't as caring for other people's materials and I can understand why

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that would get frustrating, but everyone's not like that.

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And just because there's a couple of bad apples doesn't mean the whole world is bad.

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And you can say that about shared space.

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Like I said, I know people that have great shared spaces, but I also know people that

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don't.

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The other point that I wanted to make from this document was about their view on families

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and that Ontario's view on families is that families are composed of people who are competent

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and capable and curious and rich in experience.

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They really say that over and over again and that they love their children what's best

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for them and that they're experts on their children.

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These families, we know this.

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We know that families have a huge part in the kids' lives and that relationships that

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thrive with the families and the educators are the foundation of our programs that we

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work better and are more high quality if we have good relationships with the family members

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or the guardians.

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It's absolutely true.

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Children thrive better in environments that have cohesive guardianship, that have cohesive

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educators working for them.

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Our end goal from both sides should be the children.

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Our only goal should be providing high quality care for the kids.

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And I think that with that shared goal in mind, it should not be hard to share spaces.

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There should be a cohesive relationship between educators in a childcare center or a before

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and after school program or a summer camp program and educators within the school.

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We're literally taking care of the same children.

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We are literally doing a similar job in just different ways.

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We're both teaching the children.

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We're both loving the children.

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We're both giving our all to make these children happy and learn and healthy and provide environments

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that are fostering their well-being.

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And if that's our end goal, then there's absolutely no reason that we should be arguing about

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it or not sharing spaces or acting like grown children.

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I put that lightly because children sometimes act better than adults in a lot of ways.

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What would the perfect world look like?

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I don't know.

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If kindergarten has this play-based learning, if kindergarten is supposed to be...

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Following the same curriculums.

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I don't know.

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This is just me talking.

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If they're following similar curriculums, wouldn't it be cool if the interests from

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our center, our centers or our programs moved from before school into school and then into

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after school?

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Wouldn't it be cool if there was like a cohesive...

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I keep using that word, but there's no other word for it.

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A cohesive relationship that children could carry on their interests throughout the programs

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or bring what they're learning in school into the after school or the summer camp programs.

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Wouldn't it be great if when educators run summer camps out of gyms that they have access

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to the toys that the school uses all year?

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And obviously that comes with...

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Write a contract.

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Obviously that comes with, hey, this is how many balls we have.

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If a ball gets wrecked, please do your due diligence and replace it.

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This just seems common sense to me.

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And I know common sense is not common and I'm ranting now, but I guess it's just frustrating.

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It's frustrating that people can't work together and it's frustrating that it's not a perfect

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world and that when there's so much bad in the world and every other aspect that people

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who have the same view of children and the same view as families and the same view as

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educators can't get along enough to work together.

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Anyways, that's my rant today.

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I'm sure there was more I wanted to talk about, but I got lost on my rant.

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But honestly, I think the important thing to take away from this is that while you're

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working in a shared space, while you're preparing your summer camps to be in shared spaces,

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remember that in the end, at the end of the day, everyone has the same or everyone should

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have the same philosophy or view of the child that they're competent and capable and curious

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and wonderful and that we're striving for their best high quality environment, their

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best learning environment, their best safe and healthy environment and providing the

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utmost care that they deserve.

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And hopefully that helps you get through these times, but also know that there's a whole

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whack of people out here that support you and are in the same boat or similar boats

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or worse boats or better boats and boats that float and boats that don't and boats that

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won't.

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But talking to each other and networking is how you get through the problem solve.

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So when in doubt, reach out to our before and after school community, reach out to me,

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always reach out to me.

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I love chatting and maybe we can work together to make this transition from school to a shared

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space for summer a good one.

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Maybe we can help each other with great ideas and problem solving and solutions and also

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maybe read this document to see what kind of information you have on your side.

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I don't have a question of the day to me that someone's asked me, but I do have a question

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of the day for you.

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So my question of the day is from me to you.

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And I would love to hear your response and I want to know what your summer camp looks

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like if you're running one.

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I want to know what your shared space looks like.

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I want to know your tips and tricks and I want you to share your sorrows and your oh

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woes is you and your hard days and I would love to know how you feel about your shared

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spaces.

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And as always, I want to thank you so incredibly much for tuning in, for listening to me, for

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joining me each bi-weekly, for tuning in bi-weekly to the Forgotten EC podcast.

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And if you're ever interested in being a guest or think you have something to share within

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the podcast, feel free to reach out.

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I'm always happy to chat and happy learning and have a glorious, glorious day.

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Thanks everyone.

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Ta ta for now.

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Thank you.

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Amazing listeners for your support.

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Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at miss Jamie underscore R E C E.

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Give a star rating and leave a review.

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Have something you want to hear about in relation to before and after school programs or full

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day summer camp.

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DM me or comment.

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Again, thank you so much and happy learning.