Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where before and after school educators, summer
camp and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they are seen, heard and valued.
I'm your host, Jamie Wakeler, and I'm so excited you're here.
Welcome to the main event.
Let's get ready to rumble.
I don't know the rest of this song.
Is that a great intro?
That should be my intro all the time.
Welcome to the Forgotten ECE podcast.
On today's episode, we are going to see the quarter one, the school system, and quarter
two, early childhood education.
Okay.
It's really not that extreme.
We're actually going to be talking about shared spaces and the terrors of territory
battles.
I'm so dramatic.
But in all honesty, we're going to be talking about shared spaces in the school system and
what our before and after school and summer camp programs look like in the school system.
Because if you're not in it, it might seem like it's all hunk of Dory and it might not
be depending on who you are and where you are sharing a space.
I am feeling all the feels right now because it is almost summer.
Summer is so freaking close and summer is my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite,
favorite time of year.
That's not actually the whole truth.
Fall is really my favorite.
But okay.
But for argument's sake, summer is my favorite because it brings on summer camp and all things
hot and all things beautiful.
I just love the thoughts of summer.
But honestly, summer camp is my favorite, my hands down, my favorite program, I guess
I would say.
I love before and after school.
I love really anything school age that's related to the childcare system center.
But summer camp is what I live for because we get to see the kids that we only see on
a short time daily if they're in our programs for longer days if they sign up.
But we also get to meet so many new people and then they have the opportunity to have
new people each week.
Like technically you can meet a lot of new people, whatever 26 times eight is.
Don't ask me to do the math.
I could ask Siri right now, but that'd be a little embarrassing.
Actually, I don't get embarrassed.
That's easy.
Siri, what's 28 times eight?
224.
You gave me 224 kids if you had 26 kids each week and there was eight weeks in the summer.
Okay.
I know unnecessary information, but this is really just how excited I am about summer camp.
Do you know what I'm not excited for?
I am not excited for sharing spaces.
Okay.
If you know me, I have a really great relationship with the school that my main center shares
with so it's really not all bad.
But I know people personally who have nightmare shared spaces.
They have awful horror stories of shared spaces and what they're currently living with for
their centers and for their programs is way less than ideal, which actually brings me
to an interesting point.
Did you know if you're in Ontario that the Ministry of Education has a working together
in shared space document?
That following five pages of the Ontario government's Ministry of Education's working together in
shared space document.
That's what it says on the first page just so you know.
It also says appendix F and I'm not really sure what appendix F is or what the bigger
document is, but for argument's sake, this is literally about shared spaces, specifically
within the school centers.
It's funny because before this week actually, well, I guess before last Friday, I didn't
know this was a thing.
I didn't know there was a document from the Ministry of Education on shared spaces and
maybe that's my bad.
Maybe I should have known.
I don't know.
Did you know?
Did you know before you listen to this episode today?
Sorry, that was my chair.
Did you know there was this document about child cares and schools working together in
a shared space?
I did not.
But as I read it, I thought, hmm, it's interesting what the Ontario government's vision is.
And what is actually happening.
So I thought it would be really fun to go through the document, piece it apart a little
and talk about my experiences or things that I've know or heard or grapevines.
And if you had any say on the matter and wanted to share it with me, when you hear this episode,
I would be more than willing to listen or gather that information or even have you in
to talk because the only way we're going to break this stigma and the only way we're ever
going to get along with each other and that they each other being schools and childcare
centers is if we're on the same page, if we work together, if we collaborate, if we get
along really put up with each other.
Anyways, so to start, it says that the Ministry of Education supports an integrated early
years and childcare system in which the school board and childcare professionals work in
partnership to provide seamless high quality programs for children throughout the day.
Who is seamless here?
I'm pretty seamless here actually, but with everyone is every center that's running with
a school within a school seamless.
If we step out of schools right now, if we are looking at centers that run shared spaces
that are in churches, in community centers, is it seamless?
I don't know if I would call it seamless from what I see.
I am beyond fortunate with my main site because we no longer share a room.
The before and after school room is ours.
We get to keep our stuff up, the children get to come in, we get to have it for PD days
that the school has, we get to utilize the room however we see fit really, but it's our
space.
So all of my before and after school stuff gets to stay here and the children get a feel
for a real room.
There's only one actual center that I've met, one actual center, one or two other centers
that I know that have a designated room for their before and after school programs.
But like I said, I don't know everyone.
I don't know a lot of people.
So if you're one of those fortunate ones, I'd love to hear from you too on your take
of it, what you think you like about it, what maybe you don't like, maybe you hate it, maybe
you'd rather share the school.
I don't know.
I want to know.
Anyways, so the government is saying that Ontario's vision is that we have these high
quality, inclusive and affordable early years and childcare programs, whether that be in
the center or shared with a school.
But when it comes down to it, A, where's this money coming from that are opening all these
high quality centers?
Where's the money come to pay the high quality staff?
But also where's the schools jumping up and down saying, we want care in here?
Because I don't really see them and the schools that have childcare centers in them, some
of them don't treat their childcare centers very good.
There's a lot of walking on glass and eggshells and I don't think that's very inclusive or
friendly or high quality.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
There is such a demand for before and after school care because who is working between
the hours of nine 30 and three or, oh my gosh, if it was my kid's school, it would be nine
o'clock to...
I would have to work from nine to two, maybe two 30 to be able to get them to and from
school.
I just can't remember my fingers how many hours it is.
That's why I was quiet.
I think it's five hours, nine, 10, 10 to 11, 12 to one, one to two, five and a half hours.
Who has a career in five and a half hours?
I don't.
I definitely don't.
I am fortunate enough to come from a two person, well, four person, a two income household.
So my shift can start early, my husband's shift can start later and that works out for us.
But someone's always picking up the kids and it wasn't always like this.
So the demand is definitely there and for affordable, affordable care, which is also
not really being met, but that's not really the school's fault.
That's more the government and the childcare center, but it's okay.
Anyways, back to the real problem here.
And that's the reason that it's important is because the Ontario government is saying
that there is an increased emphasis on the need for school principals and childcare supervisors
and recreation providers and staff to work together.
Who is working together?
That's what I want to know.
We do a pretty good job here, but even here has its flaws.
For example, when I started working here, our center is at one side of the school and
obviously the other side of the school, the rest of the school is a school.
We had our dishwasher in the teacher's staff room, which we never used the teacher's staff
room, but we use the dishwasher always because we have to watch dishes.
And very soon it was regulated, quote unquote, when we could use the dishwasher because it
was hot and loud for the teachers in the staff room.
And then it was when the teachers and the EAs had their breaks, we couldn't go down
there and we run half day programs, so it was hard to ensure that our dishes are washed
and ready to go for the next program when we could not run the dishwasher in between
programs.
Which got super messy.
Regardless, I worked my butt off to be able to provide, to provide, I didn't do it all
myself by all means, had some help, had a lot of support to get a brand new dishwasher
and have it set up in one of our rooms so that we could use the dishes whenever we really
wanted to.
It's actually an herbivore and after school room tucked away, but it's perfect.
And we've never had to go down and go into the staff room again, which takes a lot of
anxiety off my educators.
Me personally, I don't know if you can tell, but I'm kind of in your face and super friendly
and outgoing and really not a lot of people are mean to my face because I am too friendly.
I don't know.
They're probably mean behind my back, but they're not mean to my face, which is great.
And I can stand up for myself and kind of obnoxious and also super talented.
I'm really pretty and really smart.
So it's not all bad qualities.
Don't think I'm selling myself short.
I'm just saying that it's harder for me not to wiggle my way into situations and say,
hey, how's it going?
And get friendly with people.
So I didn't get a lot of pushback when I went down there, but I did.
I do know that some of my educators did.
Some of my educators got a lot of pushback or, oh, they're there again, or, oh, you have
to do the dishes again, or, it's so hot.
Like really?
We're working together and I promise you the last thing we want to be doing is going down
there bugging you while we do dishes.
But that's not what was seen.
What was seen was that we were in their space.
So we moved the dishwasher down and then I thought everything would be great.
Had to wait for the old dishwasher to get out because it's not something that I could
just do myself, I guess, technically, because, you know, plumbers and stuff.
But what I wasn't expecting is a day or two after we got the new dishwasher installed
and the old dishwasher disconnected, waiting for someone to come pick it up.
I was getting slack from some of the school people about moving my dishwasher out of their
staff room, which it's now been out for like a week and there's nothing in there, but that's
in its spot.
But I mean, what?
No.
Thanks for doing that.
Really appreciate you moving the dishwasher.
I know it was causing a lot of grief for educators.
Thanks so much.
Nope.
Just why are you getting rid of that?
It's in the way.
It's not in the way because it's been there for at least four years and it was fine when
we were using it.
So what is the problem?
But it's fine.
Sorry for the rant.
Anyways, so I know this is all to say, I know that it's not always the easiest to share
spaces and that even when you have a good relationship, there's going to be parts that
aren't so great.
Now Ontario, in this document, Ontario also talks about the view of the children, which
is that all children are competent and capable of complex thinking, curious and rich in potential
and experiences, which we all know and gather.
We agree with that and they agree with that.
So why are they supposed to agree with that?
So what is the issue here?
If we are believing that children are competent and capable of anything, capable of complex
thinking and curious and rich in potential, then how come we are not allowing children
to share materials or share spaces with the school?
How come in classrooms we're not allowed to touch their toys or we are asked to put our
stuff away and we're asked to hide our stuff away and that there's places that literally
forbid people from going into certain rooms?
I just, if we are believing that children are competent and capable, shouldn't we believe
that they're respectful and give them the opportunity to be respectful?
And that actually leads me into my next point because it also talks about how we view educators
as competent and capable and curious and rich in experience and that we're knowledgeable
and caring.
If these are all true, if Ontario really believes about this and that the school boards are
really supposed to believe this, then how come we're treated differently than teachers?
How come we are not treated as quote unquote guests in the room or shared?
If we're really shared, are we a guest?
Not really.
We have every right to be there too on the times that it's our time.
How come there's so much slack about what we use and sharing markers and oh my gosh,
toys?
You can't touch those blocks.
You can't touch those toys.
What do you mean?
These kids were in your class 10 minutes ago and now they can't play with the toys that
they were playing with all day?
It doesn't make sense to me.
Where is this line?
Where is it?
Where's the collaboration and the communication and the other C word that's escaping me?
Compromise.
I knew I'd think about it.
It's just hard.
It's absolutely hard.
I know centers that have to run out of gyms, but they aren't giving any storage areas,
so they have one little shelf and that's how they have to run their whole program off a
little shelf.
But at the other side of this is the government, Ontario, the Ministry of Education is saying
that they value these programs, that they're important to society and that they're important
to the community.
But are they important if you don't think that they need anything?
Are they important if you're not giving a little?
Are they important if you are not willing to share or not willing to even talk politely
to each other?
It blows my mind.
And I'm not saying that ECs are perfect.
I'm coming from my point of view and I know there's educators that aren't as responsible
or educators that aren't as caring for other people's materials and I can understand why
that would get frustrating, but everyone's not like that.
And just because there's a couple of bad apples doesn't mean the whole world is bad.
And you can say that about shared space.
Like I said, I know people that have great shared spaces, but I also know people that
don't.
The other point that I wanted to make from this document was about their view on families
and that Ontario's view on families is that families are composed of people who are competent
and capable and curious and rich in experience.
They really say that over and over again and that they love their children what's best
for them and that they're experts on their children.
These families, we know this.
We know that families have a huge part in the kids' lives and that relationships that
thrive with the families and the educators are the foundation of our programs that we
work better and are more high quality if we have good relationships with the family members
or the guardians.
It's absolutely true.
Children thrive better in environments that have cohesive guardianship, that have cohesive
educators working for them.
Our end goal from both sides should be the children.
Our only goal should be providing high quality care for the kids.
And I think that with that shared goal in mind, it should not be hard to share spaces.
There should be a cohesive relationship between educators in a childcare center or a before
and after school program or a summer camp program and educators within the school.
We're literally taking care of the same children.
We are literally doing a similar job in just different ways.
We're both teaching the children.
We're both loving the children.
We're both giving our all to make these children happy and learn and healthy and provide environments
that are fostering their well-being.
And if that's our end goal, then there's absolutely no reason that we should be arguing about
it or not sharing spaces or acting like grown children.
I put that lightly because children sometimes act better than adults in a lot of ways.
What would the perfect world look like?
I don't know.
If kindergarten has this play-based learning, if kindergarten is supposed to be...
Following the same curriculums.
I don't know.
This is just me talking.
If they're following similar curriculums, wouldn't it be cool if the interests from
our center, our centers or our programs moved from before school into school and then into
after school?
Wouldn't it be cool if there was like a cohesive...
I keep using that word, but there's no other word for it.
A cohesive relationship that children could carry on their interests throughout the programs
or bring what they're learning in school into the after school or the summer camp programs.
Wouldn't it be great if when educators run summer camps out of gyms that they have access
to the toys that the school uses all year?
And obviously that comes with...
Write a contract.
Obviously that comes with, hey, this is how many balls we have.
If a ball gets wrecked, please do your due diligence and replace it.
This just seems common sense to me.
And I know common sense is not common and I'm ranting now, but I guess it's just frustrating.
It's frustrating that people can't work together and it's frustrating that it's not a perfect
world and that when there's so much bad in the world and every other aspect that people
who have the same view of children and the same view as families and the same view as
educators can't get along enough to work together.
Anyways, that's my rant today.
I'm sure there was more I wanted to talk about, but I got lost on my rant.
But honestly, I think the important thing to take away from this is that while you're
working in a shared space, while you're preparing your summer camps to be in shared spaces,
remember that in the end, at the end of the day, everyone has the same or everyone should
have the same philosophy or view of the child that they're competent and capable and curious
and wonderful and that we're striving for their best high quality environment, their
best learning environment, their best safe and healthy environment and providing the
utmost care that they deserve.
And hopefully that helps you get through these times, but also know that there's a whole
whack of people out here that support you and are in the same boat or similar boats
or worse boats or better boats and boats that float and boats that don't and boats that
won't.
But talking to each other and networking is how you get through the problem solve.
So when in doubt, reach out to our before and after school community, reach out to me,
always reach out to me.
I love chatting and maybe we can work together to make this transition from school to a shared
space for summer a good one.
Maybe we can help each other with great ideas and problem solving and solutions and also
maybe read this document to see what kind of information you have on your side.
I don't have a question of the day to me that someone's asked me, but I do have a question
of the day for you.
So my question of the day is from me to you.
And I would love to hear your response and I want to know what your summer camp looks
like if you're running one.
I want to know what your shared space looks like.
I want to know your tips and tricks and I want you to share your sorrows and your oh
woes is you and your hard days and I would love to know how you feel about your shared
spaces.
And as always, I want to thank you so incredibly much for tuning in, for listening to me, for
joining me each bi-weekly, for tuning in bi-weekly to the Forgotten EC podcast.
And if you're ever interested in being a guest or think you have something to share within
the podcast, feel free to reach out.
I'm always happy to chat and happy learning and have a glorious, glorious day.
Thanks everyone.
Ta ta for now.
Thank you.
Amazing listeners for your support.
Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at miss Jamie underscore R E C E.
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Again, thank you so much and happy learning.