1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Welcome to the Forgotten ECE, the show where before and after school educators, summer 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,320 camp and PD staff and CYWs have a place where they are seen, heard and valued. 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:38,680 I'm your host, Jamie Wengler, and I'm so excited you're here. 4 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,600 Hello and welcome to the Forgotten ECE. 5 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,400 I'm your host, Jamie Wengler. 6 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:46,720 Thanks for tuning in. 7 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:52,040 Last episode we talked about advocating for ourselves as professionals and for the program 8 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,160 to be seen as it should be, essential and important. 9 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,720 Well, I'm not done with the Advocation Train because today we're going to discuss another 10 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:08,840 area that needs a little help and expertise, a little guidance, I guess I would say. 11 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:09,840 Risky play. 12 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:10,840 What's that? 13 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,560 Never heard of it. 14 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,880 What an interesting new concept. 15 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,520 Okay, I know, I know. 16 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:24,080 As RECs and ECs, you are most likely extremely familiar with the topic. 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,320 How can you not be? 18 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:35,040 The concept itself gained attention in the early 2000s, which was only 24 years ago. 19 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,640 Let's just hold that thought for a minute. 20 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,840 The early 2000s was 24 years ago. 21 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:39,840 Okay, okay, okay. 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:45,120 It may come to no surprise when discussed it's often referred to in examples of preschool 23 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,000 and toddler children. 24 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,160 I'm here to tell you that it's equally important in school age programs. 25 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:58,200 It might even be a little riskier, but thrilling and exciting. 26 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:04,440 More so for the kids partaking than less so for the adults watching or standing nearby 27 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,400 making sure no one, you know, seriously injures themselves. 28 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,280 But it's essential. 29 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,360 But let's start with the basics. 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,240 What is risky play for those of you listening who might not know or who might be curious? 31 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,360 It's defined by thrilling and exciting forms of free play that involve uncertainty of outcome. 32 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:28,200 There is a possibility of physical injury usually within risky play. 33 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,920 But as mentioned, it is essential for child's development for their physical, mental, and 34 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:34,200 social health. 35 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:41,240 It's our job as educators to view children as competent, capable, and curious beings. 36 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,720 And the only way we can do that is treat them as though they're competent, capable, and 37 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,720 curious. 38 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:54,520 But how can you fully jump into that definition or fully embrace that outlook on children 39 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:02,920 if you're not willing to let them take risks, take chances, get messy. 40 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:10,000 But in all seriousness, it's not just about the child being comfortable, the child being 41 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,440 comfortable in the risk. 42 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,520 It's also about where you're comfortable and reflecting on yourself to see if your 43 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:25,120 comfortableness is imposing on how competent a child could be at the risk that they're 44 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,120 taking. 45 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:33,320 The only way to counteract your comfortable levels and giving yourself some confidence 46 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,680 in the children's capabilities is providing an area or a designated space for risky play 47 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,440 to happen. 48 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Setting aside an area specifically designed for risky play such as a national playscape 49 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:52,320 or adventure playground where children can climb, balance, jump, and explore freely will 50 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:59,360 give them the opportunities in a controlled environment to do this sort of play. 51 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:04,760 Risky play is seen in categories and one of the categories playing is at heights. 52 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Personally, in our summer camp program, we let our kids climb trees. 53 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,760 We have a rule around it that we've come up with as a collective with the students each 54 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,920 year that involves children being able to get in the tree themselves. 55 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:27,200 If they can't get in the tree themselves or find a way into the tree using their knowledge, 56 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,200 then they can't climb the tree. 57 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,480 That is not to say that if they pull up a ladder and get in the tree themselves that 58 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:35,480 they can't do it. 59 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,400 Nope, if that's what they come up with then hey, have atter. 60 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:46,640 But they also have to be able to use their brain, use that cognitive knowledge on how 61 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,480 to solve a problem. 62 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,320 Other sorts of climbing that is usually found upon is climbing fences, which I don't really 63 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:59,520 understand because I mean, what really could happen with climbing fences? 64 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:05,240 I know I'm not silly, I'm not dumb. 65 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:11,080 I understand that fences are there for a reason and that probably encouraging children to 66 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:16,760 climb over fences might give them a certain skill set that they might not want to have 67 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,080 when they're older. 68 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,120 But what a challenge. 69 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,120 I've always been a person that if someone's putting a wall up in front of me, the more 70 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,520 I want to get over that wall. 71 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,600 And climbing a fence is a perfect physical example of that. 72 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,000 You tell a child they can't climb a fence, the first thing they're going to want to do 73 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,760 is climb the fence. 74 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:42,960 But going back to setting up these natural areas for them to risk take, if you have climbing 75 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,880 materials in those areas, then maybe they'd be less likely to climb the fence. 76 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,240 Or is there a fence that you can set up that's meant for them to climb? 77 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,240 I don't know. 78 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,760 I don't know what the right answer is. 79 00:05:53,760 --> 00:06:01,080 I honestly just think that providing the safe area to do so will benefit children in the 80 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,080 long run. 81 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,840 Also, under this category of playing at height is jumping. 82 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:14,000 I have seen firsthand, educators not allow children to jump out of or off of playground 83 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,200 structures for the risk of hurting themselves when they jump down. 84 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,200 But for the life of me, when I think about me, when as a child, jumping out of those 85 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,100 play structures was the fun part. 86 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:32,040 Climbing on top of the tunnels that you climb in on the play structure, you know what I'm 87 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:39,840 talking about, those big yellow or green tunnels that you would crawl from one side of the 88 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,120 wooden platform to the other. 89 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:48,360 And to climb on top of there or climb on top of the railings was the best part. 90 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,920 And all goes back to that controlled environment. 91 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:59,720 Our playgrounds are, as early childhood education centers and childcare centers, are assessed 92 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:07,020 by third party companies in the playground safety, CSA certified. 93 00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:15,120 So if we have climbing materials that the ground has the good fall depth, why not let 94 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,680 them jump off the playground? 95 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Why not let them climb on top of these tunnels? 96 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,400 This is what play is about. 97 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,720 What about balancing on top of the railings? 98 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,720 Unpopular opinion. 99 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,840 What's the worst that's going to happen? 100 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,520 And then think about what's the chances of that worst thing happening. 101 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:39,240 If a child is confident enough to stand on top of the railing, dare I say they might 102 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,160 be capable enough to walk across the railing. 103 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,240 I know, I know, I know what you're thinking. 104 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,880 I might be losing some credibility, but children need to test these boundaries. 105 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:57,360 They need to know that they are in charge of testing these boundaries and that we are 106 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,240 going to help provide encouragement where it's needed. 107 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,880 Okay, the next category is playing at speed. 108 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,800 Biking, sledding, skating, sliding and high speeds. 109 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,040 How do we foster this in our centers? 110 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,320 Do you allow your school-agers to bike? 111 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:19,800 Do you have outdoor toys for them such as bikes? 112 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,800 The last time I... 113 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,800 Wow, I'm coming to a realization right now. 114 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:33,680 I've worked in a few centers and none of them had adequate speed materials or toys for outdoor 115 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:34,680 play. 116 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:40,160 Like, we have trikes for preschoolers and toddlers, but where's the bikes for the school-agers? 117 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:41,160 Wow. 118 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,120 Okay, what about having a bike a day? 119 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,840 What if you let kids bring their bikes to child care for a day? 120 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,040 Would you let them bike around at high speeds? 121 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,320 And what does high speeds look like? 122 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:01,120 Because for one kid, which might be high speed or fast, it's not the same for another kid. 123 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,680 And in our programs, in these before and after school programs, that varies greatly. 124 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:15,120 JK to H12 is a huge gap and not every child is going to be where each other is if that 125 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,200 is made sense at all. 126 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:23,600 But what's fast for a 12-year-old is not going to be fast for a four-year-old and vice versa. 127 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,360 So how can you be an advocate for this type of play? 128 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,480 Easy. 129 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,480 Know your stuff. 130 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:37,200 Children need to develop a significant amount of biking skill and experience before attempting 131 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,200 high speed. 132 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,560 They have to be able to sit on a bike and ride a bike. 133 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:46,360 No one who cannot ride a bike is biking fast. 134 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:47,360 Let's be honest. 135 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,280 And the kids that are, they've learned how to ride. 136 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,720 You have to trust that they have the skills that they need. 137 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,920 You have to see them as competent and capable in this skill set. 138 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,040 Obviously, you're not leaving them alone. 139 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,760 You're supervising them. 140 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,120 You're there in case anything happens, in case you have to intervene. 141 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,520 And obviously, safety gear is a huge must have. 142 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:18,040 If this is the type of play you're allowing and that you are going to try, children shouldn't 143 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,920 have to wear a helmet. 144 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,920 That goes without question. 145 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,520 Children have to wear helmets. 146 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,040 If they have knee and elbow pads, by all means, great. 147 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,640 And then providing a safe environment to do so. 148 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,800 Obviously, parking lots aren't always the safest, but if it's after hours out of school 149 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,960 and the parking lot's clear, why not? 150 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,240 Try it out. 151 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,440 And it's not going to happen overnight. 152 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,480 One day, they're going to let the kids bring their bikes. 153 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,440 They're not magically going to be able to all of them supersonic speed bike. 154 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,240 They will have a gradual progression, which will allow you and them to get comfortable 155 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,240 with those speeds. 156 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,600 But then advocating this to the families, advocating this to ministry, advocating this 157 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,040 to your supervisors. 158 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,160 This all goes back to seeing children as competent and capable. 159 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,160 You have to trust that they know themselves because no one else knows them. 160 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,160 All right. 161 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,000 Ha ha, category three, my favorite. 162 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,760 Play involving tools. 163 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,160 I love this topic. 164 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,240 I love this category. 165 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:29,840 My first year of school age at my current place of work, I reached out on the internet. 166 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,360 It started with a provocation. 167 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,360 A child came in and was talking about a small engine that they got to check out with their 168 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,360 parent over the weekend. 169 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,840 And I remember when I was in high school that I got to take apart a small engine and it 170 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,440 was a lot of fun. 171 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:52,400 So I reached out on the good old Facebook and asked for anyone that would be willing 172 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,760 to donate a small engine for children to take apart. 173 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,840 We had an old sensory table that we weren't allowed to use at the time because it was 174 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,840 COVID. 175 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:12,120 So we, a nice farmer had made sure all the liquid and oil was out of the small engine 176 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,840 and donated it to me. 177 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,640 So I went and picked it up, brought it in, had some tools that I borrowed from my dad 178 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:25,960 and I brought in like a tool briefcase if you want to call it that with all the tools 179 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:31,520 that they could need, including safety gloves and safety goggles. 180 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,720 And we talked about the importance of wearing the goggles and the gloves when you're working 181 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:35,720 on it. 182 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,280 But when they came in Monday morning, there was this motor there and they were allowed 183 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,200 to do whatever they wanted to do it. 184 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,200 Take apart the screws, take a hit it with a hammer, whatever they wanted to as long 185 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,720 as they were wearing their goggles and they're being mindful of the people around them. 186 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,520 Tools should not be scary. 187 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:57,440 We live in a society where you will need to know how to use a tool and the faster you 188 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,560 learn how to use those tools, the better for you. 189 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:08,680 So they use screwdrivers, ratchets, pliers, what else? 190 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:16,640 Oh, hammers and I can't think of all the fancy names for tools, but you know, all of the 191 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,260 fun things and they really enjoyed it. 192 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:25,200 This went on for three weeks of them trying to get this whole small engine apart, which 193 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,120 was probably a task that was a little hard because it was old. 194 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:34,040 So some of the bolts were rusted, but it was such an incredible thing to see them work 195 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,520 together and problem solve on how to get this machine apart. 196 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:45,360 And the things they thought this was for and how it ran, it was just beautiful. 197 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,320 It was absolutely beautiful. 198 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,280 And if I would have thought for a second that they weren't confident or that it was too 199 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,760 risky to bring in tools, they would have missed out on an amazing learning opportunity. 200 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:03,320 Other tools that I've seen in programs are small axes, saws, knives, ropes. 201 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,900 A lot of people like to whittle with their children, which is super cool. 202 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:10,640 Also serving your own snack. 203 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:16,960 And I don't mean just serving, I mean the preparations for snack, cutting the cucumbers, 204 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:24,080 cutting the bread, toasting the bread, obviously spreading the cream cheese or the wow butter 205 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,320 or whatever you're having on your toast. 206 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:32,320 Allowing children to use knives to cut their vegetables and fruit, it's another tool. 207 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,560 It's another way to say that they're competent and capable. 208 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,200 Wow, I feel like I'm saying that a lot this episode, but I really hope that you're taking 209 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:45,840 away that children are competent and capable because if not, I don't know how else to say 210 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:46,840 it clear. 211 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:54,240 Another great category is play involving dangerous elements such as fire and water. 212 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,840 None of us are able to because we don't have the means to get there, but playing in water, 213 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,800 building a fire, having a fire outside. 214 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,480 Obviously insurance has a lot to do with these rules, but I was lucky enough to work at a 215 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,040 center that we got to have bonfires with the children and I don't mean like I shouldn't 216 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,960 say bonfires, I should say campfires. 217 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,120 We used to have campfires with the kids and we cook meals on top of the campfires and 218 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,560 it was so amazing. 219 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,680 And children learn fire safety. 220 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,080 They learned, okay, if we're having a fire, there has to be a bucket of water here. 221 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,920 Okay, we're allowed to sit on the logs, but we're not allowed to get too close to the 222 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,120 fire because we taught them. 223 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,120 You talk it out. 224 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,880 Children are so smart. 225 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,000 They understand, oh, that's a fire. 226 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,600 I'm going to get burned if I fall in it or if I run near it, but not allowing them to 227 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,360 have these opportunities of learning. 228 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,760 You're robbing them of the graciousness of learning. 229 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,040 You're robbing them of these beautiful moments. 230 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:54,120 Another topic, another category of risky play is playing with the risk of disappearing or 231 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,600 getting lost. 232 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:02,280 Now this is tricky at childcare, I must say, because obviously it's serious currents of 233 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:09,600 a child gets lost, but exploring spaces or play spaces, sorry, or fields with children, 234 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:16,760 obviously not a cornfield, but where they're allowed to explore the area provided with 235 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:23,760 bushes and places where they can hide or play hide and seek with each other with limited 236 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:24,760 supervision. 237 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Wow. 238 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,360 What an opportunity that would be. 239 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,560 Growing up, we used to play hide and seek in the dark. 240 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:38,720 We, I didn't grow up on a farm, but I lived in the country and we had an okay sized property 241 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 and we play with the neighbors and our cousins. 242 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,960 And when it was dark outside, we'd get to play hide and seek outside in the dark. 243 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,000 And it was so much fun. 244 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,200 Those are some of the best memories I had. 245 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,440 And obviously we climbed trees to get away from each other and it was, it was so cool. 246 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,120 Those memories are memories that we will never be able to reproduce if I don't believe my 247 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,040 kids are competent and capable to handle that as they get older. 248 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,200 If I don't think the children at childcare are able to play in the dark, it's okay to 249 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,760 have a light on and when it gets dark in the evening before pickup, because we know in 250 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,720 the winter, in the late fall, it gets dark. 251 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,080 It's okay to stay outside. 252 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:23,320 We put glow sticks on and play hide and seek in the gym in the dark. 253 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,360 This kind of play is thrilling for the children. 254 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:32,040 Other types of risky play that I wanted to touch on today were climbing up the slide. 255 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,000 Why not? 256 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,400 What is wrong with climbing up a slide? 257 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:48,120 I was tutoring ECE in college here in Ontario last year and for one of their courses, they 258 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:53,240 had to assess a video and in the video, it was a child calling up a slide and they were 259 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,960 asked to mark it wrong, that that was unacceptable and too risky. 260 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,140 What? 261 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:05,000 If you work together to set out ground rules, then I would have to disagree. 262 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,540 I don't think it's too risky. 263 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:09,000 If someone's crawling up the slide, you don't go down. 264 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,480 If someone's going down the slide, you don't crawl up it. 265 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,880 It goes back to basic turn taking. 266 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,760 There's no reason it should be banned. 267 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,920 It's like laying on your belly and going head first on the slide. 268 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,360 What is the issue? 269 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,220 I don't know, maybe I'm naive. 270 00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:29,560 I know I'm optimistic, but these challenges seem almost silly to be fighting if you're 271 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,280 actually viewing the child as smart. 272 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:38,240 If you're viewing the child as someone who has a brain, as someone again, as competent 273 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:44,440 and capable because there's no reason these things can't be done to an extent. 274 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:52,280 The last area of risk taking I wanted to talk about, which does not provide a source of 275 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:58,160 physical injury or a risk of physical injury is social risks. 276 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,320 We live in a high anxiety environment and I believe that we can help. 277 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,280 I'm not saying we can solve it, but I believe we can help with these anxieties if we provide 278 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:14,400 opportunities for children to work through these anxieties with their social peers at 279 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,480 childcare. 280 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:22,720 How can we give school-agers the tools to play with one another, to work through social 281 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,320 situations that make them uncomfortable, to stand up for what they believe in? 282 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,960 How do we teach them their rights and how to advocate for themselves? 283 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,520 All of this can be seen as social risks. 284 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,880 How do we teach children to stand up against bullying? 285 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,120 How can we provide them the tools that they need to say no? 286 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:47,120 I think that's a huge part of risky play because this sort of risk happens every day. 287 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,120 Children need to learn to say no. 288 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,680 They have to be able to set their own boundaries. 289 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,640 They have to be able to give consent and they have to be able to deny consent. 290 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,920 I think that risky play is important. 291 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:05,480 To reiterate, I think that there's a lot that we could do as before and after school educators 292 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:12,000 to foster this sort of play in our programs and that it's essential, that it is a must. 293 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,520 However you take this away, you might not agree with me and that is totally okay. 294 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:22,680 But children are so much smarter and so much more competent and so much more capable than 295 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,520 we give them credit for. 296 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,000 The only way that they are going to learn to set these boundaries and test their limits 297 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,720 is by being provided opportunities to do so. 298 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:38,360 I would love to hear from you and your ideas of how to incorporate risky play into before 299 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:46,600 and after school education and your ideas on how to encourage risky play from educators 300 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,960 who might not be as open to it. 301 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,400 And also your ideas if you think of a plan. 302 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,400 That's cool too. 303 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,880 Everyone has their own opinion. 304 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:03,800 I want to thank you for listening and before I go, I thought it would be fun to do another 305 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,960 question time. 306 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,360 This is the part of the podcast that I answer your questions. 307 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:17,340 So someone asked me about rough and tumble play in school age and if I let the school 308 00:21:17,340 --> 00:21:22,800 agers partake in such an interesting play form. 309 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,760 My answer is honestly depends on the situation. 310 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:32,240 But to break it down for you, rough and tumble play refers to physical play activities characterized 311 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,720 by wrestling, chasing or any other forms of energetic but non-aggressive physical contact. 312 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:44,800 I believe wholeheartedly that it is natural and healthy for children to explore their 313 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:51,160 physical abilities and develop social skills through these establishment of boundaries. 314 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:57,680 That not only can it promote coordination and cooperation, but it also helps children 315 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,080 learn about empathy, negotiation and conflict resolution. 316 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:07,280 But it needs to be supervised and there needs to be consent from both parties. 317 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:14,160 And there needs to be a, I want to say a safe word that children say when they're done. 318 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,920 It could be stop. 319 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,360 When I say stop, I mean stop. 320 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:18,360 I'm done playing. 321 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:19,360 I don't like this anymore. 322 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:23,400 Now I don't let people, I don't let the children beat each other up. 323 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,400 Not at all. 324 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,840 I don't think that would go over very well. 325 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,480 I mean I could probably advocate for it though, but it's not about the aggression. 326 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,960 It's about play and learning boundaries. 327 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,160 And if you don't, if you take anything away from this episode, I want it to be that a, 328 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,040 children are competent and capable and the only way they can be competent and capable 329 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:49,000 is if they are learning to set their own boundaries and they have opportunities provided to them 330 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,720 to test their limits. 331 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,400 And rough and tumble play is a perfect example of that. 332 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,560 As always, thank you so much for joining me. 333 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,640 Reach out for questions, comments. 334 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:04,960 I appreciate all the shout outs and love that I'm getting and I also appreciate any constructive 335 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,960 criticism. 336 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,680 So thank you so much. 337 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:14,960 Have an amazing week, two weeks until our next episode and I look forward to seeing 338 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,960 you then. 339 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,960 Thank you. 340 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:24,400 Thank you. 341 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,040 Amazing listeners for your support. 342 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,280 Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at miss Jamie underscore R E C E. 343 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,640 Give a star rating and leave a review. 344 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,560 Have something you want to hear about in relation to before and after school programs or full 345 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,560 day summer camp. 346 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,760 DM me or comment again. 347 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:46,960 Thank you so much and happy learning.