Welcome to Beyond the Petri Dish, a podcast where we dive deep into the captivating realm
of clinical laboratory medicine and explore the impacts of our work beyond the lab bench.
Join our hosts, Aaron Odegaard, a veteran laboratory scientist and aspiring stage actor with a
heart of gold, Heather Nutting, an experienced clinical microbiologist with a wealth of knowledge
and not so subpar human, and Kyle Magee, scientist, scholar, inventor, and Skeeter's dad, as we
uncover hidden stories from the lab, discuss the latest innovations within the field, and
connect the dots between our work and the broader world of healthcare.
In this episode, we discuss an ethical dilemma in healthcare, recent CMS changes, and share
some infection control stories.
Just remember that the thoughts, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the hosts and do not represent our employers, organizations, committees, or other
entities.
Whether you're a fellow lab professional, a healthcare enthusiast, or simply curious
about the science behind the scenes, there's something here for everyone.
So join us as we journey beyond, beyond the Petri dish.
Okay, are we ready for Erin's joke?
Okay, how much room do you give a fungus?
How much?
As much room as possible.
Mushroom?
Okay.
You really hyped that one up.
I did.
The students really like that one.
I'll keep it for my students.
Yeah, it's pretty entertaining.
So topics.
Okay, I'll go.
What you got?
I'll go.
Okay, so.
Surprise!
I like to bring up controversial topics.
You guys ready for a little controversial topic?
It's not like insanely controversial, but there's controversy.
Controversy?
I don't know.
Can Kyle hear?
I don't think he can hear.
He's back.
Oh, Kyle.
I'm bringing a little bit of a controversial topic to the table.
Contravisty here.
You guys ready for it?
Okay, what's the topic?
So recently in the news or social media, let's be honest, it's not the news.
Does anybody watch the news anymore?
In social media recently, there's been a lot of conversation and keep in mind this is related
to the medical field, but not quite labs.
Bear with me.
There's been a lot of discussion about a recent flight where there was a doctor on board the
flight and as they often do, actually not that often, only twice in my life.
One time actually just like 48 hours ago, an announcement came over the PA.
Is there a medical professional on board?
We have a medical emergency on the plane.
So I guess this fella had been hanging out at the airport lounge prior to boarding and
you know, he was probably in, I guess, upgraded little situation.
So he was enjoying a couple drinks on the flight.
But I guess in doing so, he had shared with him or shared with the people next to him
that he was in fact, a doctor.
And I remember what type of doctor but the type of doctor that people would assume would
be able to assist in said medical emergency.
And when they called over the PA, he did not get up.
He did not assist.
And the people next to him that were aware of the situation were really, really upset
by his unwillingness to get up and assist.
And there has been a lot of back and forth conversations about this topic on whether
or not they feel he should have assisted or whether he was within his rights to have refused
to assist.
So I kind of want you guys to take on the situation.
Why did he refuse?
Is there a story there?
Did you not hear the beginning of the story?
No, I stepped away.
He stepped away.
So are you sure that he was a medical doctor that could have helped?
It's not like it's like a gastroenterologist surgeon or a pathologist who can diagnose
cancer but...
He self admits after the fact that he could have helped in a different circumstance.
Could have helped.
He had the skills, training and knowledge to assist in a medical emergency.
Yes.
He had been drinking?
Yes.
Oh, that's why he didn't?
Yes.
Because even if he would have saved their life, they might have sued him.
Or if something went wrong.
Somebody smelled alcohol, the people next to him saw him drinking.
It's a tough position to be in.
I do understand that, but...
Did the person make it through in the end?
I mean, I believe so.
I don't know those details.
A lot of the times a medical emergency in flight is often not a life or death situation.
More likely than not, it is usually not life threatening.
Plus, some added color to the situation.
I don't know if you guys are aware, but flight attendants have a medical emergency number
that if they can't get assistance from a passenger, they can call this number and they can be
guided through with the supplies that they have on board exactly what needs to take place
for them to administer care in the event that there isn't a medical professional on board
that can help.
Okay, so I'm going to put my quality compliance hat on.
They have procedures and protocols in place.
So I kind of understand where the doctor is coming from.
They're, I mean, they have a process they can follow.
They have a number they could call to do the necessary things that they needed.
The training the flight attendants had should have been enough to hopefully keep the person
fine.
So I don't fault him because it could have gotten messy.
He could have gotten hurt and if, and then the back and forth would be, well, you know,
you should have just sat there.
You'd been drinking.
You should have just followed the procedures we had in place.
So I can see why he just, he didn't want to do any, I mean, they take out not to do harm.
So if you know you're in a condition where you're not at your best, where you've been
drinking or something and you're not on the clock and you're not working, then your thing
is not to do harm.
So if he felt he was going to do harm to somebody, then it's in his right and it's probably good
that he didn't help.
Kyle, agree or disagree?
I don't know.
I'm torn on the subject.
I guess, you know, it sounds like this wasn't life or death.
So maybe that came into play with his assessment of the situation.
Now what would you guys say if we remove the drinking component?
He's sober.
I'm going to stick with it.
We've had cases where, like in our free San EDS where they're like demanding blood products
for a patient without the pickup slip, without the process, just wanting the blood.
Those processes are in place for a reason because those lab scientists were to give
blood and a transfusion reaction were to happen and the patient was hurt even more.
There's a process in place for a reason.
So I mean, I'll stand by it.
I wouldn't have gotten involved.
That sounds heartless, but what if I did more harm?
I think that it's interesting that you're only thinking about it from that perspective.
If somebody on a plane threw an empty bag of chips on the ground, would we just expect
that a garbage man that's on vacation would just pick it up because that's the profession
that he chose?
But I kind of feel like you have to in those situations in order to be effective, you have
to take emotion out of it.
Because it's easy.
The guy's on vacation.
He's expected to work just because the career path that he chose to take happened to present
itself in a situation while he's on vacation.
The garbage man's not going to pick up the empty bag of chips.
Why do we expect the doctor to go and tend to the patient with the medical emergency?
You're kind of helping me make my arguments so that...
I know, but I just found it really interesting that you only viewed it from that perspective,
like, from sort of a legal and risk standpoint.
But I think that there is a human element here on both sides.
Don't get me wrong, on both sides.
There is a human element, but that's the trap of the dilemma that you presented to us.
It's a no-win situation.
I mean, probably if the patient was or the person was at a point where maybe you couldn't
do anything or if you absolutely had to do something, I'm sure he would have got up and
done something, but he probably was able...
I don't know.
I mean, that's what I was trying to get at is, you know, like, more context on the situation.
Was it a very minor, you know, health crisis?
But most of the time, we don't know that.
There's just a call over the PA.
And what if you're like, well, can you give me a little more color on the scenario before
I make my decision?
That's usually not an option.
Like, attention airplane passengers, is there a medical doctor on board that has a specialty
in seizures?
Like, no, like, there's nothing specific.
You either get up and help or you stay in your seat.
You don't know that information.
That information is not usually provided to you.
And then my other question is, how many of you guys, if you were traveling with friends
or family members that are not in the laboratory or medical profession, would have actually
looked at you and expected you to get up because they know that you work in a field of medicine?
How many?
I feel like I know at least like two that would have been nudging me.
And I'd be like, I cannot help this person unless you have like an incubator, auger plates
and 24 to 48 hours.
What do you want me to do?
You want me to swab them?
Exactly.
But there's also this like widespread assumption, like everybody's like, will you look at this
cut?
Will you look at this?
Yeah, I've had pathologists, friends that they have family members that look at them.
Shouldn't you be doing something like, I'm a hemo-onc pathologist.
I'm looking at slides or I can do a gross assessment of tissue.
But yeah, no, my CPR skills are not up to par.
Yeah.
I had a friend that she was at the mall and she was in scrubs because she had just gotten
off work.
And someone ran up to her and said someone's having a medical emergency.
Can you come help?
And she's like, I'm not a nurse or a doctor.
I can't help.
Yeah.
The first so this has happened to me twice on a plane.
The first time I was wearing scrubs and I got the evil eye like you're saying nothing.
No one actually said anything to me or gave me a nudge.
But I had a lot of eyes on me, especially because I was in the exit row.
So there's a lot of space there where people were starting to gather in the midst of this
medical emergency and all eyes were on me.
And I'm like, I'm a microbiologist.
I cannot help this person.
I can put on a band-aid, but I probably won't even do that well because I'm being honest.
Yeah, I witnessed one too before.
But I was surprised how many people did get up.
Like there was a line in the aisle of people like trying to get to the person.
There was already a doctor tending to them.
He was like, guys, I've got this.
You can go sit down.
Nobody got up on this flight.
So they had to defer not the flight that is causing this like social media sort of debate,
but the most recent flight that I was on like just two days ago, nobody got up.
So they did have to revert to their established protocols where they had to call somebody.
The thing that amazed me the most is of course, when we landed, they were like, everybody,
please stay in your seat when we get to the gate because we have to wait for emergency
medical personnel to come on and get this person off, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I was actually sitting in row one.
So we pull up to the gate and the little ding thing, the seatbelt light comes on as it does
when you arrive at the gate.
And I turned around and I looked because I was like, there's no way an entire plane full
of people are going to comply with this request.
There's just no way, especially knowing that none of them were now.
Truly, it could have actually been that no one on the plane was a medical professional,
but nobody was willing to help the person if they were, which in my opinion, I feel
is fine.
But the compliance with the request was actually astonishing.
Nobody got up and normally nobody cares.
Like when they're like, hey, some people have some short connections.
Why don't you let them get up first?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
No, nobody listens.
But everybody actually listened until one person with a short connection did get up
and then the whole plane started to get up.
But initially, everybody had to comply.
Yeah.
But once one person got up, everybody was like, screw the person with the medical emergency.
They're probably fine.
Yeah.
On the same topic.
I did not hear that.
You haven't heard that?
Yep.
Is there a video that went with it or was it just a no?
No.
But on a similar topic, one of the things you guys probably did hear about was the changes
to the proposed edits that CMS was making to make it so that a nursing degree would
be sufficient to perform testing in a high complexity lab.
Now, this is something you guys probably heard about.
No?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know all about it.
How do we feel about that?
Well, so they, so from my understanding, Aaron, you probably know quite a bit about this too.
They approved a degree, but they had to take additional pathways to do that.
Is it that they can do high complexity, but not moderate complexity testing?
It's the other way around.
Yeah, it's the other way around.
But they have to do more training.
It's not as simple as just like...
Yeah, no, because it's weird that the medical laboratory technicians, the MLTs, can do high
complexity, but they can't do moderate complexity testing without supervision.
It's really kind of weird.
Oh, that is weird.
Yeah, it took me a while to wrap my brain around that.
And then to go off of that, the fact that the doctorate in clinical lab science, they're
recognizing it as a lab director.
It's a huge win.
I mean, they recognize it, but the fellowships don't have to recognize it.
Yeah, not yet.
Baby steps, Kyle, baby steps.
The people that control the reimbursement and the money, they recognize it.
This particular topic is really near and dear to me and similar to Kyle's response about
the doctor providing aid while inebriated on a flight to a potentially not severe medical
emergency.
So obviously, and I don't know, I think you guys know this, but maybe it hasn't come up
on this podcast before.
I don't have a degree in clinical laboratory science at all.
And so there is a part of me that does sit on the fence about this topic, because what
degree is required to go to nursing school?
Anybody?
So, so it's a bachelor's, so it's a bachelor's of nursing, a bachelor's in nursing.
But what if you go to nursing school, like after the fact?
Like what are the requirements to get into nursing school?
I'd probably say it's a biological science degree because they do have fast track programs
where you can do like an accelerated year on top of your your bachelor's or like 18 months
or something.
Do they even need that though?
Don't they just need pre-reqs?
The pre-reqs to do the program?
But yeah, or the associates as well.
Yeah.
So my degree is in biology.
But you probably did a program, right?
So I started out as a Spanish major, and then I went to music performance for a little bit.
On string bass.
And then went to environmental biology and then went to biology after taking a micro
class.
So then I finished my degree in biology and got into a post-bac, like a hospital program
that did like a four plus one situation where you did the year after you got your degree.
So yeah, it took me a while to get here.
But when you graduated, you were eligible to sit for an exam.
No.
So you took the education route.
Well, I had to do...
Or the experience route, I mean.
So I had to get my degree, like I got my degree in biology, and then I had to do an additional
year at a hospital-based program to sit for the test.
But it was a formal program.
It was a formal program, yeah.
That has now reopened, excitingly enough.
Yeah, I think all four of us have done three different pathways to get certification, but
we all have certification.
Yes, that is the difference that makes me put one leg onto one side of the fence.
But correct me if I'm wrong.
CMS is not saying that a nurse can just walk in and work in the lab.
They're saying that a nursing degree is sufficient prerequisite for school, or am I wrong?
For the change?
Yeah, well, they're supposed to be making a pathway for them to essentially get more
education to do this additional testing.
Kind of in the same manner how we have our pathways to certification.
Yeah, so I think I still lean much more heavily in the direction of it was a good decision.
It was a win.
But I think a lot of that stems from a conversation that I actually had over Christmas.
And I've been sort of stewing over this.
So I am going to release some of the frustration that I'm feeling by giving it to you guys
because I have a feeling that you're going to feel as frustrated as I did at the time.
So I am not going to mention who this person was, but it's someone close to me in my life
that happens to be a nurse.
And we're having a conversation at Christmas.
I think that it started on the basis of how much of a paid discrepancy there is from an
entry-level nurse to an entry-level clinical laboratory scientist.
And I asked her the simple question of, true or false, the lab has an equal contribution,
though a very different type of contribution, but an equal contribution to patient care
as that of a nurse.
Do you guys agree or disagree?
I agree that equal, yes, but very different.
A majority of what they're using for diagnosis is diagnostic testing.
So whether it's imaging or laboratory, we do play a huge part as a part of the care
team.
So it's just how you look at it.
We just impact differently with the testing we're doing.
It's leading them to what the next step is.
Nursing, they're taking care of a different aspect of the care.
So I think we're all doing different aspects of the care.
And when you're looking at it from the lens of I'm literally at the bedside versus in
the laboratory or in radiology doing the imaging or the testing that's going to lead them further
down the diagnosis, it's just kind of shifting the idea that multiple teams are part of the
care team instead of...
Yeah.
I mean, I acknowledge wholeheartedly that a nurse has to handle the shitty part of that
patient care, that they are right there doing the things that people who work in the lab
will literally never have to do.
I am not in any way downplaying that part.
All I'm asking is, or saying, I guess, is I acknowledge that if every single nurse in
a hospital did not show up on a particular day, that patient care is not going to be
stellar.
It's not going to be stellar that day at all.
It's probably not going to happen, right?
But if the lab closed for the day, do we not agree that the impact would probably be the
same?
If there was no lab, no results, no nothing, that we equally contribute to patient care,
albeit in wildly different ways, that there are pros and cons of if you ask anyone on
either side.
True?
Yeah, I would agree that if you take away any part of the team, the outcome's not good
and it falls apart.
Well, this person, very straight face, looked me in the eye and said, no, the lab does not.
The lab hardly contributes to patient care.
That's unfortunate.
I've been stewing over this since it happened.
So I would have countered that a little bit with them.
So when you're calling me for that critical or that specimen, so it doesn't matter?
Yeah.
Well, full circle back.
Are you in bad shape about the fact that your collection wasn't that great?
So now I'm telling you it's clotted.
Well, like I said, it doesn't matter then.
So why are you getting so upset?
Full circle back to the original conversation.
We'd been drinking, so I just decided to drop it there.
Yeah, I probably do that too.
I was like, yeah, this is a little sensitive, a little Sally sensitive situation happening
here.
No, your CMS thing you brought up, I kind of, I'm okay with the fact that they're saying
that it's not equivalent to be a lab director and they have to do additional work.
Because if you give anyone additional work and they're already overworked, they're not
going to do the 20 extra steps to be the lab director when they're like, wow, I've taken
four new classes and I'm already doing 12 hour shifts and I'm exhausted and we're short
staff.
So it'll weed out the people that aren't serious is what you're saying.
Yeah.
And most nurses, when you tell them that, at least I've talked to like, I don't want to
do the lab work.
I'm tired enough.
Who the hell wants me to do the lab work?
They want to give me more stuff to do.
Let's be realistic.
One nurse wants to do more laboratory work.
Apparently enough that it became like a pretty hot topic of conversation.
Well, I think they just want them to be able to do point of care testing.
Is that the general idea?
But they can.
Like literally, anybody can do point of care testing.
We're probably only just a few years out before the patient can do it at his own bedside.
I mean, I guess the idea is that if you're like in a rural area where you don't have
too many lab professionals and it's maybe all you do is have that nursing component
there that maybe they can do the testing to solve the work for a shortage, but it's detrimental.
Like there's not one in the like amongst nurses right now, like what there's just like a bunch
of them sitting around doing nothing.
Yeah, I know.
I feel like with nursing, it's kind of the, oh, just have the nurse do it.
Just have the nurse do it.
It's kind of like a dumping ground.
Okay, they can do it.
True.
Yeah.
So I guess to build off of the excitement of the plane.
Plane straights and automobiles?
Automobiles, yeah.
But we all seen like contagion and outbreak movies where it spreads rapidly and people
panic.
Have you guys ever wondered how that whole process works?
Like I ended up seeing that there was a recent outbreak of salmonella off of charcuterie
boards.
So off the like the meats and the stuff or like the little fancy charcuterie boards.
Makes sense.
So apparently, just to catch everyone up on the-
Apparently, if you leave meat and cheese to sit out at room temperature and multiple people
stick their grubby paws into it and put it in their mouth, someone might get sick.
That's a listeria moment.
Thank you.
Yeah.
There were no pregnant people harmed in this scenario.
But on these charcuterie boards, it was reported out on the 5th of January by the Minnesota
Health Department.
So this one company had recalled 11,000 pounds of ready to eat charcuterie meat products
and they were shipped throughout the country.
So Georgia and Indiana and North Carolina and Oklahoma and Texas.
He says throughout the country and you mentioned a cluster of states that are kind of close
to each other.
Yes.
The home of- Yes.
So the question is, do you guys have any memorable outbreaks?
Something that you've helped with?
Like the fact that the lab does play a role or do you think we do play a role?
COVID-19 comes to mind.
Okay.
Besides the obvious global pandemic.
Thanks, Heather.
Let me add- Let me make a quick comment on that.
So what you're telling me is next time I get upgraded to first class, I should not get
the charcuterie board for my meal.
Do not get the charcuterie.
And I actually just had wine with a bunch of friends on Monday and we were snacking on
a charcuterie board.
So that's why I was like, hmm.
I love charcuterie boards.
I don't.
I don't like that meat.
That's not the kind of meat that I like.
Don't like some fudu, some salami.
It's very fancy.
No.
Some nice assorted sticky cheeses.
The cheese, yes.
Not the meat.
It just looks like you shouldn't eat it.
Much less the texture.
It's a problem.
Yeah.
Well, so I've got a couple outbreak cases I've been a part of.
Do you have a favorite or a crazy one?
There was a- This wasn't like a major outbreak.
I loved this outbreak.
This wasn't a major outbreak.
This was a small handful of Vibrio cholera cases that we saw.
And they were able to track it back to the same restaurant amongst this small handful
of patients and they all ate the same meal.
Of course, it was raw oysters.
I was going to say- And then they tracked- I talked to the person at the Department of
Health, like what do they do?
And apparently they track the- I guess the oysters have lots.
They track the lots of oysters back to where they originated and have that originating
site remove those oysters from rotation.
Yeah.
So I went to a trade show a few months ago and there was an entire session on how CDC
investigates outbreaks.
And it happens exactly how I pictured it, which is surprising because every time I picture
something, it's always some wild exaggeration of what's actually taking place.
But exactly how I envisioned it seems to be pretty spot on and it's super interesting.
It's almost like when we get a QC failure and we have to trace back the lot, it's similar
to that, but they go- There's a human element.
They go and interview everybody and then in this particular scenario that they were talking
about, they were interviewing people and there was one commonality and everybody they interviewed
and it was meat.
And they're like, this has got to be it.
We're going to go talk to this next person.
Must be the meats.
It's got to be the meats.
And then one person was like, we don't eat meat.
That made me think of the Arby's commercial.
It's in the meat.
But this one person was like, yeah, now we're completely vegan household.
No one in this home eats meat.
And they had to reset their entire investigation all the way back to the beginning.
And it was just happenstance that all of these people had consumed the same meat and it had
nothing to do with the meat.
Could have been the tofu.
But do you feel like people realize how much work goes into it?
I don't think so.
I believe there's probably a ton of work.
They rescued an animal though.
I don't remember the type of animal, but it was something where, oh no, it had to do with
cows.
Did you guys know that there are four, I think it's four segments or quadrants in a cow's
udders?
And all four of them are completely segmented from each other.
Like they don't interchange.
So you could legitimately do an investigation tracing back contaminated milk and it would
be from like utter A, but the C and D are fine.
How crazy is that?
Utter contamination?
It is utter contamination.
No.
But it was something like there was a very pan resistant, and I wish I could remember
the organism now, but it was something that's very pan resistant.
But all of the milk from the other udders, they were able to recover this organism, but
it was completely pan susceptible that it was only problematic when it was milk from
that particular utter.
So it became of like massive interest to the CDC, I guess.
And so they went and like visited this cow and they did all of these studies on this
cow.
And after they were done, they found out the cow was going to be euthanized and the CDC
bought the cow so that it wouldn't be euthanized because they found they felt like it was like
a scientific phenomenon.
They go and they buy this cow and like bring it back to Georgia so they can continue to
study it.
So you're saying in some cases it's okay to cry over spilt milk?
Yeah, yeah.
The CDC cried when it was appropriate and I was like, this is the coolest story I've
ever heard.
See in my head, I thought that the infection control measure there would have been just
taping off the utter.
This utter is no longer in use.
A picture looking out of order.
Use these first.
For your ice cream.
No, no, no.
Slap a biohazard sticker on the utter.
I've just been kind of thinking about that.
Yeah, CDC has like a nice little outbreak website, but then they also show like an informative
video that shows about how from when we call like an organism in the lab, then it goes
to the state and they do like sequencing on it and then that's sent up to CDC to compare,
see if it's compares to any other ones.
So just the amount of time it takes before like from the point where you get sick and
you're treated to when they actually pinpoint the outbreak.
I just as a lab professional, I lose track of the fact that, you know, it's all those
extra steps just to make sure that you can pinpoint it down to the out of order utter.
And I guess this one was particularly problematic.
No, this one was particularly problematic because it came from unpasteurized milk, which
is illegal.
And so like similar to I don't know if you guys know this, but similar to like like little
drug, like situations around our country and outside of our country, you know, like the
mafia, the mob, like keep it in the culture, keep it in the culture.
So the this is like an unpasteurized milk distribution group that's like completely
underground.
And so when people started to get sick at first, they wouldn't reveal their source.
They're like, no, no, no.
Like they were like, no, like clinging to life.
And still they were like, no, I'll never reveal my source.
Like I guess the consequences of that would have been worse than what they were experiencing.
But that's why the investigation just stalled because they they admitted to consuming unpasteurized
milk, as did everyone in the investigation for this particular outbreak.
But they it just last for like a year or more because no one was willing to give up their
like underground source for unpasteurized milk.
I had like chocolate cookies and milk planned out for after this.
But I'm rethinking that a little bit.
Yeah, I guess it's a pretty hot thing like up in New York, potentially.
I believe that's the state that was referenced, that it was like this underground New York
distribution center for unpasteurized milk and nobody was willing to give up the source.
And then finally, somebody was like, it's this place with this cow and this utter.
So imagine how long that investigation took, Erin, you think just a standard one where
people are willing to say everything they ate in the last like two weeks.
And now this person's like, I know what the problem is, but I'm not going to tell you
where I got it from.
I pictured like a criminal lineup of cows is number one, two, three, four.
I think it's number four.
Number four, please step forward.
Please step forward.
That's racist right there.
It sounds like a commercial of some kind.
I love that.
I love chicken.
I'm trying to help you.
So on the same subject, I'm trying to help you.
On the same subject, do you guys know about the Vibrio cholera story?
That's like the foundation for modern epidemiology in London back in the 1800s.
You know what story I'm talking about?
It sounds familiar, but why don't you give us a rundown?
The only reason the story is even told is because we talked about it and class last
week.
Um, but Dr. John Snow, not to be confused with John Snow from Game of Thrones, was a
physician that was investigating an 1854 cholera outbreak.
And he knew that, oh, suspected that cholera was probably waterborne.
And this is still around the same time where the miasma theory was still kind of running
rampant.
Do you guys know the miasma theory?
Is this the guy that infected himself?
No, no, that's the H. Pylori.
But the miasma theory was this theory that people got sick because of just bad air, that
illness was in the air and you had to purify the air to prevent further illness.
That's why you-
We've also come full circle on that, huh?
You ever seen the doc, like those like old school doctor masks with the long nose?
They would wear that because they would stick incense in these long noses and the incense
would purify the air when they would be seeing these patients because they believe that these
ill patients, you know, could give off bad air.
I mean, they were onto something, right?
You know, you kind of look like COVID, but you know, obviously it wasn't bad air.
It was microorganisms.
Okay.
So, we'll keep leading us down that road.
So, what do we use now, Kyle?
So there's a big cholera outbreak in the Soho district.
It's ineffective, Aaron.
What we use now is ineffective.
Big outbreak in the Soho district of London.
And he like mapped out all the people that were sick in that area and found out that
they were essentially drinking from the same water well in that area.
And so of course what they did is they closed off the water or that particular well and
lo and behold, people get healthy and, you know, didn't keep getting sick.
But you want to know the one subclass of people that weren't getting sick that lived in that
district?
Were the men that worked at the brewery there making beer?
Because all they did was drink beer.
They didn't drink any of the water.
I would have been fine too.
So to be preventative, I should be drinking beer to keep myself safe from Vibrio.
You should.
Cheers.
Here, here.
But you know that well in London, it's actually, it's got like a plaque and everything.
And it's like regarded as the like, modern foundation, oh, you know, foundation of modern
epidemiology.
Wow.
I'm surprised people haven't thrown microorganisms into said well, just to make a statement.
I'm not saying that I want to or I'm going to.
Would you make a wish on that?
Would you wish on that well?
Like, wish for nowhere?
What if people put pennies in there that were infected with things and the whole thing repeated
itself as history tends to do?
So any, any tip?
Okay, so kind of like closing out the outbreak conversation.
Do you have any like good tips or anything?
Anything that you, anything you've learned from working the bench?
Like anything that might help somebody else?
Don't eat bad oysters?
I like the Karen's tip about the proteus, even though it's a very small one.
I thought it was interesting.
Oh, share it, share it.
Yeah.
Explain it to our, anyone that's listening.
So we have a colleague that has a tip for cutting back on the swarming of proteus on
the plates, on the blood auger plates.
Apparently, what you can do is take an alcohol prep pad.
I know every lab has them and you put them on the, the lid of the plate and incubate
it and apparently that cuts back on the swarming of proteus.
I haven't tested it yet, but I trust her.
Oh, I think I was given homework.
I think I was given homework to do this.
I was supposed to go full back.
Yeah, you need to do it, man.
I'm dying to know.
I was told to do this.
No!
The only thing I've used, like the PEA auger plate has helped with decreasing, like getting
to stuff that is swarming.
Do you guys think that the PEA plate smells like roses?
I don't think I've ever smelled a plate without bacteria.
It does.
Okay, smell it fresh and clean.
No proteus inoculated and it smells like a bouquet of roses.
Oh, cause it's got rose oil in it.
Yeah.
Ooh, look at that.
If you guys need any ideas for Valentine's Day that's coming up.
A bouquet of PEA plates.
I'm sure my wife would love that.
Do it, Kyle.
Remember two dozens, she's worth it.
Yeah.
That's true.
Who needs it?
Yeah.
Who needs a candle when you got those plates?
Just open a bag right there in your living room.
Yeah, and one of those candle warmer things and just put the aromas.
I got one of those for Christmas.
Yeah.
I got one of those for Christmas.
Oh, Dan, you're getting a lot of stuff for Christmas.
Get the white show.
I had to literally take it apart to get it home because I got it in Alabama.
And so I had to like unscrew it and the wires that come from the base up into the top were
like dangling out and I'm like fingers crossed that this makes it home.
Oh, and by the way, when I was going through TSA, they flagged my bag and they did all
of their little like tests on the hand warmers that you guys got me.
They're like, what is this?
And I'm like, this is Detroit.
I don't know why it's confusing to you that people would want to warm their hands.
But.
You don't have such things.
Yeah.
Do they cut them open?
No, they just took their like the wand.
What's it called?
The no, it's like looks like an alcohol prep pad.
But they like want to check it for like like explosives.
Yeah.
I know.
Yeah.
Speaking of alcohol prep pads, not every lab has them, Kyle.
Not every lab.
I'm so sorry.
Because the research lab sort of that I was in this past week.
And you know what I'm talking about?
You know which one, Kyle, that you've been in, the one you've been into that we go to
frequently.
I had to explain to them actually what an alcohol prep pad was when we were learning
to withdraw blood from a positive local.
They're like, oh, prep pad.
We use IPA.
And they're like, bathe in the IPA and put it in their mouth.
And I'm like, I sprinkle alcohol, you spray it on things.
Oh, I was thinking IPA beer.
Since we talked about that protecting me from the vibrio.
So same first time somebody said, oh, my gosh, do you know that XYZ state will let you buy
as much IPA as you want?
And I was like, do states restrict that?
And I'm thinking that they're talking about beer the whole time.
But no, they're talking about actual large quantities of isopropyl alcohol at the store
that like there are restrictions on that.
And I was like, that's weird.
Like you can buy IPA all you want where I live, as it turns out, not the beer.
Hey, so what's your outbreak tip for everybody listening?
My outbreak tip?
Yeah, we got our IPA.
My outbreak tip is, dude, I have just always felt that people who eat oysters are taking
a risk because I'm like, is that delicious enough to risk a limb or death?
Like how much do you like it?
Because the risk feels a little higher than just low.
You keep going to death here.
I thought you were going to go with the with all the coughing thing.
I thought you're going to go with wear a mask if you're sick, be considerate.
But no.
Oh, no.
Like that has been said that has been said every 17 seconds for four years now and people
don't listen.
So that's a useless tip for for the group.
I'm not saying that I don't think it's true.
I'm just saying like no one listens to that tip anyway, nor do they listen to the oyster
tip.
Just a tip.
Just for a second.
For a day.
I just see how it feels.
Ouch, ouch, you're on my hair.
OK, to culture our audience, what would you how would you culture our audience?
How would I culture our audience?
These are really in there.
How would I culture our audience?
Like providing a culture tip?
Oh, it's a play on words.
Oh, I was like, what?
Oh, so to be cultured, you should probably wear a mask when you're sick.
That's a cop out.
OK.
So carefully eat oysters and lobster.