buying that building. It wasn't the easiest thing
because I really just had just enough money to
do that. Once the sale closed on the sale and
everything, I just suddenly went from Bank Street
Hostel to Apple Hostels and started letting people
in. As we took money from guests and stuff, we
used that to go buy stuff for the hostel. Hello,
friends and travelers. Thanks for listening.
You are riding along on the Hostile Road Trip
Podcast. Our mission is to spread awareness of
the true hostile experience in the Americas and
share stories from the fascinating hosts who
create those unique facilities. I'm your host,
Jimmy Black, joined alongside co -founder of
International Travelers House, Bobby Dyer. Each
session, we sit down with hostile operators or
travel influencers to hear about their road success,
discuss trending hostile topics. and close with
tips for travelers who are seeking to have the
ultimate experience when visiting each destination.
You can't afford to miss this trip. Now fasten
your seatbelts and let's hit the road. Welcome
back to the Hostile Road Trip Podcast. It's been
a little while, but it's going to be worth the
wait as we have an OG Jedi night. Mark Demare
from Apple Hostels. Thank you so much for joining
us, Mark. Thanks for having me. And I am Jimmy
Black, along with my co -host Robert Dyer, as
always. Thank you, Robert. Yeah, thanks for having
me, Jimmy. Thanks for coming on, Mark. Yeah,
so let's dive into it. And here we go. And I
want to go into a time machine, Mark, because
you've got a lot of experience. And I won't keep
making references to your age. I appreciate that.
Your time machine is going to need a lot of juice.
We're going to go way back. I want to go back
to when you started in hostels now, too. I know,
as all three of us actually on this call, we
all came from the USA hostels tree. And maybe
give us a little bit of how that started. Was
that your first hostel experience or first hostel
job? It was my first hostel job. Yeah. Well,
no, actually, no, it wasn't actually. So, yeah,
I started as a volunteer. I wound up in Hollywood
and I really didn't know anything about hostels.
And a friend of mine gave me a I think it was
let's go. And and you said, you know, you're
going to be in L .A. for a while. You should
think about, you know, look at this book. It
recommends hostels and stuff. So got to California
and just picked. I forget the name of it, but
it was on Hollywood Boulevard. I thought that
sounded cool. And so I went to this hostel first
time being in it. It was like it was. a really
bad hostel but i was like i had no idea what
hostels like i guess this is what hostels are
like you know they're just really bad they're
great like the the the shower tubs all rusted
bottoms you know kind of thing they had like
rubber mats so you wouldn't cut your feet on
the rust kind of thing and uh you know not very
clean it wasn't much of a the common area is
a tiny room you know kind of thing with a tv
in it um tiny kitchen and stuff and and uh just
you know just dirty and stuff and like okay that's
what hostels are cool you know whatever and um
And then I met another couple that were at the
hostel. And they were going to be in LA for a
bit, too. And they were from Australia. And they
wound up moving over to USA Hostels. And they
said, you should come over. And so at the first
hostel, I was doing a few overnight shifts at
one point to cover my stay. So that was my first.
volunteering experience in hostels was actually
at that first hostel. Do you remember the name
of it? No, I can't remember the name of it now.
But it was like right across, almost right across
from, you know, the Man's Chinese Theater. Okay.
But it was actually right across from this other
old movie theater, which I can't remember more
of a name of. But anyway, whatever. But it was
like that end of Hollywood Boulevard. And not
too far from La Brea. Um, anyway, so, uh, went
over to, they went over to USA hostels on Hawthorne,
just like a, you know, block away or whatever.
And so I went over there and, uh, I was like,
wow, this is a nice hostel. Like this is way
better than, it's like, oh, I guess model hostels
are crappy, you know, kind of thing. And, um,
so, uh, checked in there and then, um, and then
they needed, they're, you know, looking for people
to, you know, work reception stuff. I volunteered
there and then not too long after they needed
a manager. The manager they had there was having
some issues and stuff. So I talked to the, you
know, the owner, David, David Reuter. Yeah. We
went for a run together and I'm like, you know,
I really think you should replace this guy. This
guy should not be running your business, you
know? You know, I feel like I've got a lot of
managing experience, not in hostels, but, you
know, I can, you know, I know my way around kind
of thing. And so that's how I started managing
the place. And then we started expanding. And
then as we expanded, like we opened a newer,
bigger hostel in Hollywood. We had already had
location in San Diego. And then we're expanding
to Las Vegas. So I took over the operations of
the whole kind of chain. And then we expanded
to, we also got a little hostel in Kanab, Utah,
not too far from the North Rim, the Grand Canyon
and San Francisco, you know, kind of thing. So,
you know, it was exciting, like expanding and
opening these new places and everything. And
that was actually when Bob was saying that you
were able to do this. I was curious to hear about
that because you were there during such a cool
time period at USA Hostels. We were there at
the end when it had already been there for 20
years. we heard about these locations like the
grand Canyon one and the Las Vegas, but those
were already gone by the time we got there. So
that's really cool that you got to get in there
and then see that growth and expansion. Uh, that
must've been a really cool experience. Yeah.
I mean, like prior to getting into hostel. So
what I used to do before that was I used to oversee
the construction of movie theaters. So I was
kind of, um, I recently, I was kind of used to
the expanding construction and that sort of thing.
I'd go in when the, uh, the shell, the building
for the movie theater was up. And then I'd be
there until opening and training the staff and
that sort of thing. And for a few months afterwards
and move on to the next project kind of thing.
So I kind of liked that. That was one of the
things I liked about USA Hostels. We're expanding,
opening these new places. And it wasn't too dissimilar
to what I was doing before. So that's the part
I enjoyed. And then we kind of stagnated. We
kind of stopped growing. and uh that was one
of the reasons i kind of i think was getting
kind of bored in a sense uh there and i wanted
to do something on my own um sure and so what
happens right around that time um back in uh
so i'll back up a little bit like i forget what
year was around um 2001 or so um there's a puppy
that got abandoned at the, uh, the hostel in
Hollywood. I was just living a couple of blocks
away. And so I wound up keeping that puppy, but
I was living in a studio apartment. I was like,
I had a studio apartment, like right off of Hollywood
Highland. I was like, you know, it was just perfect
bachelor pad, you know, having time in my life
and, uh, just enjoying it. Like I knew eventually
I needed to find a, uh, you know, a bigger place
or whatever and, and, you know, grow up kind
of thing. But, uh, Uh, but it's not too much
fun. But then I got this puppy and he's growing
and like, okay, I can't, this, this, this dog
needs a yard, you know, kind of thing. So I think,
okay, now I'm going to look for a house. And
that's right when the prices were exploding kind
of thing. Yeah. Um, home prices were exploding.
And so, um, found it. So I found a house. Um,
it's actually a property in Hollywood and, um,
Echo Park. And it was two tiny houses, 550 square
feet each, and both then kind of disrepair a
little bit, one more than the other. And so I
fixed up one. That's the one that I was renting
out. And the other one I totally gutted, just
brought it to the studs and then started rebuilding.
And I moved into that. And like when I moved
in, all I had was a garden hose. Uh, so I would
go to like, uh, you know, Home Depot to, to take
a dump and I'd go to the hostel or shower thing.
And finally like day two or three, I finally
installed the toilet. So at least, you know,
that saved me having to go to Home Depot every
couple hours or whatever. Um, uh, but anyway,
so, um, because of that, I wound up like, you
know, having these two homes I've eventually
finished. And the idea was I'd just keep living
in one of them. The rent on one covered the entire
mortgage. And I figured I'd eventually move to
a bigger home. But housing prices shot up. And
I realized that if I just sold it, I'd have a
whole lot of money. I could open my own hostel
somewhere. Oh, cool. So that's what happened.
So I wound up selling the property. And with
that, and that's right when I met my future wife.
I bought a small, tiny RV. And we started traveling
around the country looking for a place to open
a hostel. Awesome. And we traveled like Canada
and the U .S. We weren't sure exactly where.
Because I'm Canadian citizenship as well. Oh,
okay. So Canada would work also. And I just wound
up in Philly, to cut the story a little short.
And it wasn't really the original plan. But I
got to Philadelphia. And a friend was showing
us around like, oh, let's see what our competition
would be like in Philadelphia if I did open one
here. And there was only one hostel in Center
City and it was called the Bank Street Hostel.
So I went to go check it out and it had a for
sale sign on it. Like, huh. Kind of for sale
by owner kind of thing. So I next day called
the number and spoke to the owner, David Herskowitz.
And he, the, the price was like 1 .6 million,
which was just in my, you know, price range kind
of thing. I just kind of had enough for a down
payment for that. And yeah, so I wound up buying
that building. It was like, it wasn't the easiest
thing because I really just had just enough money
to do that. Like, you know, once we, the sale,
you know, closed on the sale and everything,
you know, just. Suddenly became one from Bank
Street Hostel to Apple Hostels and started letting
people in. And as we took money, you know, from
guests and stuff that we use that to go buy stuff
for the hostel, you know, furniture and buy paint
and a lot of. a lot of cleaning detergent or
cleaning supplies. It was a pretty, it was a
pretty, it was a pretty dirty hostel. It was
a pretty dirty, filthy building when we got it.
But, but yeah, just as money came in, we just
spent it on, on, you know, improving the hostel
kind of thing. And, and I just went from there.
Nice. Now, in that journey, were there some other
close calls to places like, oh, I almost opened
up in Birmingham, Alabama or whatever, you know,
like were there any other spots that were a close
second or that was. Well, I really the goal was
really Boston. Oh, yeah. We because it only had
the H .I. and actually the time there's the H
.I. hostel. I forgot what street it was, but.
The old H .I. hostel. And it also had a summertime
H .I. hostel. They leased out like student housing
and second hostel. And that was it. And I knew
Boston was a big market. And I'm like, if I can
get into that, that'd be that'd be good. And
we spent like all summer, like all of August
and September and into the beginning of October
there. Like we parked the RV at. It was in a
state park with a campground right in the corner
of, like, right before the New Hampshire border
in Massachusetts. Salisbury Beach, I think it
was. Okay. And so we, you know, going to Boston
almost every day looking for, looking at properties
and stuff. But it was just, like, you needed
a lot of money to do something. Because you,
you know, didn't really have a proper kind of.
licensing for for that um you know that kind
of category for hostels and stuff and and uh
anyway yeah so it would have been a huge gamble
um and we couldn't really find anything there
so um so then it started getting cold and like
okay let's move on next stop is philadelphia
let's see what's there kind of thing and then
it worked out and what year was that in so it
was 2007 okay cool so 2007 and then and then
we actually uh june of 2008 is when we opened
uh they actually bought you know the close the
sale and the hostel and the building in philadelphia
in the building what tell us a bit about the
building what's the building like it's like an
old historic building or yeah so i mean uh it
used to be a nightclub back in the day i mean
but originally i mean the we don't know how old
the building is the city lost the records for
that it's like it's actually so um So the building
I bought was originally it was two buildings
and it was and one is like really old and one
is one is like really, really old. The other
one's really old. And at some point they're combined
to make a nightclub. But they're both like I
think one might have been a residential and one
was definitely industrial, small industrial thing.
And but it was turned into a nightclub sometime
in the late 60s or early 70s. Uh, like I saw
the historical photos of it. It was a bunch of
different nightclubs during the seventies. And
at one point it was, it was called, um, it was
a circus Maximus and their tagline on the sign
outside was dance your ass off. And, and then
at one point it was, um, it was, uh, owned and
operated by, uh, a very well -known drag queen
at the time back in the seventies. And a bunch
of I can't remember her name now. But I mean,
she you know, she hung with the likes of like
David Bowie and stuff like that, you know, and
somebody actually recently wrote a book about
her and the club and everything. And he came
around and took pictures of what it looks like
now kind of thing. And I show cool box where
it said DJ booth or whatever. And but yeah, so
at one point is a nightclub. And then in 92.
The last thing it was called was Cheetahs. And
then that's when it closed and it was for sale.
And David Herskowitz bought it and turned it
into a hostel back in 1992. His dad was a contractor.
So his dad kind of did all the work and everything
and turned it into a hostel. And then, you know,
and that's when I came around in 2007 and saw
it and put an offer on it and then closed on
it finally in June of 2008. Awesome. And where
does the H .I. affiliate like? Were you an H
.I. at some point? Tell us about that. Yeah.
So somehow, again, this was a very filthy, filthy
hostel. But somehow David Hershkowitz managed
to get a H .I. affiliate license. So he affiliated
himself with the Hostel International somehow.
I don't know how he did it. And I didn't really
I didn't have any interest really in being part
of H .I., to be honest, at the time. And because
they didn't allow alcohol back then. So, again,
this going back a few years, but back, you know,
way back when they didn't allow alcohol whatsoever
in the hostels. And I was all about, like, you
know, having free drinks and stuff like that.
I thought it was a good big part of hustling,
you know, having a good time, having a drink
kind of thing. Yeah. So. It came with the license.
So when I bought it, I already had the license.
So I talked to Aaron at HI and said, hey, I'm
going to be the new owner. And he's like, yeah,
it looks great. And he said, it already has the
license. You don't need to reapply. You just
need to keep submitting to the inspections they
do yearly kind of thing. And if you pass, you're
fine. So I said, OK, great. And I figured like
when they find out that I'm having, you know,
free drink nights and stuff like that, that they're
going to just take the license away and like,
whatever. So maybe we'll have that HI license
for a year or less or whatever, but you know,
whatever. At least I'll be listed on the HI website
and their, you know, posters and stuff and can
put my brochures. Remember when we did brochures?
So I could put my brochures at HI New York and
HIDC and stuff. So I was like, okay, great. So
at least I can do that for a year. But right
around that time, they created a test pilot program,
a pilot program to test out having alcohol themed
events or whatever. So that's how I got away
with, so I could. have these, you know, free,
free beer nights and stuff like that. And, and
still keep my, the HI license. So I wound up
staying in HI affiliate for, for many years until
they disbanded that program a couple of years
ago. And it was great. I really actually wound
up really liking being part of HI. They were
some good, you know, good support. And, and again,
it was good to, you know, be part of that kind
of chain. of what did they what did you find
was like the most benefits for being a part of
hi back then like what did they do that you felt
that there was value uh i mean a they had annual
uh annual meetings so um you just kind of like
not you know not too different the uh north american
hostel association you know um conferences that
we're doing yearly now kind of thing so it uh
better for it would be speakers and stuff like
that and so uh you learn a bit from that um And,
you know, you meet other hostel owners like,
you know, Jim from Portland and everything. And
I mean, that's how I got to know Jim. It was
kind of weird because we were kind of we live
almost identical lives. Jim and I, because we
both have German wives. We both expanded our
hostel the exact same year. Oh, we both our last
kids were both born the same year. And I was
on a conference call with Jim and a bunch of
people and stuff. And they're like, I didn't
realize Jim and I just had his kid. And like,
oh, Jim, you had your baby. Oh, what's his name?
Like, I was like, yeah, Nicholas. Like, fuck.
No way. God damn it. That's what we're naming
my son. Oh, my goodness. That's too funny. Now
that we have a kid the same year, we also named
him the same. It's great. On the opposite coast.
I love it. Everything we do, it's like the same.
Was there a big jump you noticed from working
with David at USA Hostels and kind of being,
you know, opening up the spots, but never being
your own solo owner? What was like a lesson learned
or what did you? What kind of reality check did
you find when it's like, okay, now it's all my
business and it's all up to me to make this happen?
Well, it's certainly a lot nicer when you're
playing with someone else's money. Easier, yeah.
Less stressful, for sure. Yeah, it was extremely,
extremely stressful. Like I said, just that purchase
was a couple of times I thought it was going
to go through. We were already taking bookings
and we already had the phone. Uh, like we had
a toll free number already going to my cell phone
kind of thing. Um, and, uh, uh, one point, like
I got some bad news. It looked like the loan
was not, it was going to be, you know, it was
not going to go through. And, and, uh, uh, I
got a phone call, somebody trying to make a reservation.
I'm like, uh, yeah, just, just call the hostel
number, the bank street hostel, make a reservation
there kind of thing. I was like, so, so depressed
and everything, but, uh, whatever happened, fixed
it. And it of course didn't. go through, but
so many, so many times it looked like it was,
it was not going to, not going to happen. Um,
and then, uh, and then when we expanded, uh,
um, so 2000, so we were, we were right across
from, um, another nightclub. So that, like I
said, the building I had was a hostel before
it was a nightclub before it was a hostel, but
we were still right across from another nightclub.
And it was a horrible nightclub. It was just
so noisy. And just, it was, it had, it was actually
one of the few, there were like two nightclubs
in Philadelphia, which had a lot of underage
kids in there. So it had like, on the upper floors,
it was like 21 and over. On the lower floors,
under 21. So we had all kinds of like kids going
in there and stuff. And it was just like. It
was kind of a rough crowd, and it was noisy,
especially when it emptied at 2 in the morning
kind of thing, and that's when everyone's sleeping,
and then the street's full of people and being
loud. So our reviews were a lot like, you know,
great hostel, but right across from a lousy nightclub.
Anyway, so the owner of that building approached
me and said, would you like to expand into this
hostel? I'm thinking, like, getting rid of the
nightclub. Would you be interested in this building?
I'm like, yeah, if it gets rid of the nightclub,
for sure. uh even though we're really wasn't
like we're bursting at the seams needed to you
know more space but i just wanted to get i figured
we get rid of that nightclub it might you know
help things too so um so that's we wound up expanding
to that so that it used to be a nightclub and
that we turned that into uh into the hospital
you know more hostile um and uh richard when
richard gear actually filmed a scene in one of
his movies in that uh nightclub was called club
um Not Cotton Club. Club 27. Oh, okay. Okay.
Richard Gere. Wow. All right. Yeah. So he filmed
a scene in what is now our room, room 302. So
we call that our Richard Gere room. I love it.
It wasn't a room at the time at all. It was like,
like, but it's, but basically where that scene
was filmed is what is now room 302. So we call
it our Richard Gere room. And when he was. doing
that scene he asked the owner of the club is
this like is this the old five spot because that
street bank street they're on used to be back
in the 70s and 80s used to be like like those
are the three clubs that people always went to
um and uh so including richard gear because he
was he remembered you know uh partying there
back in the day um and so the five spot was a
different nightclub that was all down the street
that burned down in 2006 or 2007 so So Richard
Gere is kind of familiar with that. But yeah,
I used to be, yeah, these three nightclubs and
now two of them are hostels. One of them is just,
is gone now, but. It's amazing how the nightclub
scene, I don't know if it's like that in Philly,
but out in California, especially in San Diego,
like the traveler, they just don't drink like
they used to. Even when we started, you know,
13 years ago, you were saying like, it was essential
to have like drinking almost every night to get
those, to entertain the crowd. And today it's
such a different world. yeah you mean in the
hostel itself or uh we feel yeah in the hostel
we feel there's less yeah yeah i remember reading
something somebody's comment on you know one
of these group chats or whatever about like you
know it's like hey you guys noticing that you
know people aren't really participating as much
anymore and and that sort of thing and yeah uh
i can say yeah you're right i think it does seem
a bit like that uh um because i remember like
we put a case of beer out and we get complaints
like uh oh they're not putting enough beer out
you know kind of thing and yeah And now I put
smaller cases out and they're not finishing them.
No, it's definitely a noticeable trend of I remember
we used to actively try to make certain nights
non -alcohol nights like we can't be doing this
every night. You know, this is too much. Let's
try to have a yoga night or something different.
And now it's completely opposite where I feel
like they're more in tune with the wellness lifestyle,
where if you have a yoga class every night, that's
going to be full. But beer pong, you might have
a hard time with where before I'd be like hiding
the beer pong table so they would stop. fucking
playing just for a night uh so it's such a such
a difference and change now you expanded across
street and that's something that for you know
listeners out there especially people that might
be thinking expanding i think a lot of times
people think you've got to go to a different
city a different spot and in our experience you
know i love the expansion within the city because
it's so much easier to maintain yourself you
know so opening we opened up a location in san
diego and pacific beach and then we opened one
up in mission beach and someone was asking me
why would you do one so close on why not take
a skateboard ride down and check out your other
spot you don't have to hop on a bloody plane
you know uh so i i'm interested to hear uh your
thoughts on this as you have a unique position
of you were there at usa hostels and you saw
this expansion happen and David at USA Hostels,
unless I think I'm correct, he was like the first
privately owned hostel that tried to expand to
that number or to that size. Well, I mean, yeah.
I mean, there was Banana Bungalow back then.
Banana Bungalow was another one. But I think
they maxed out at three. I think so. They had
San Diego and Hawaii. Yeah. And then we've seen
Selena. which was a recent one that really tried
to take all of this venture capital money and
then had all this pressure to open up a bunch
of spots. And very quickly, I feel like they
proved that hostels are a unique business, in
my opinion, where the chain doesn't work because
you have to become so cookie cutter and so corporate.
by the textbook of, like, a hotel expansion,
that you lose all of that special sauce and that,
you know, vibe that is what creates the characters,
what creates a hostel and makes it separate from
a hotel. We at ITH are, you know, often struggling
with that now of, like, you know, we've got to
slow down because it's... We're seeing that precipice
of, oh, man, we're going to have to start getting
so corporate and so cookie cutter to maintain
all these locations that we're going to lose
what makes us special. In your opinion, having
that experience at USA Hostels, running your
own shop for many years afterwards, what do you
feel like is the max size that one could expect
to be able to expand location -wise before running
into those problems? are your insights into why
places like a selena or other hotel style chains
haven't been able to successfully ramp up like
oh i've got 50 hostels and they all run in that
mom and pop fashion what are your thoughts on
that yeah well i mean it's just the the sheer
number of like employees that you have and everything
i think like they get into human resources and
stuff that was also something was happening at
at USA hostels was we had so many employees and
then there's, you know, certain laws you have
to abide by when you have certain, when you surpass
so many employees and stuff, then it's a lot
of HR and that's not fun. No. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
I, you know, that's not what I got into hostels
for. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, that's yeah. I
mean, I mean, I, I don't think it really necessarily
affects the each hostel. It's, you know, you
can still, you know, have it run a certain way
and, and, and whatever it is just really, I think
the, it does get, but it does get very corporate
and, and then it's, it's just not as fun, you
know, feel that top down, right? People up top
start not having fun. And then it flows downward
to the guest experience of like, Oh, this doesn't
feel the same. You're like, Oh, I'm on a phone
with a lawyer all day long. Now it's not the
same. Now, how about the change of the guest
demographic? This is another one that I love
to speak with people who have been in the industry
as long as Bob and I have been, and even longer
in your case, so that you've got a better vantage
point. When we first started 15 years ago, it
was, you know, 80 % of the hostel was international.
And then like there was like 20 percent Americans
that you would let in on the exception. But they
were all actual backpackers. And that's why you
let him in, because you're like, OK, you just
came from Asia after a backpack tour. You know
what's going on here. You appreciate it. You
get it. You're going to fit in fine. But that
was like a very select, exclusive crew that you
would let through the doors. And most other Americans
were just turned away. And a lot of hostels even
back then just didn't even take Americans at
all. Now, given our situation with pandemics
and political issues of, you know, we're not
too popular right now internationally, and then
the opening up to the American guest, what is
some big differences you have noticed in that
change of the guest demographic over the years?
Yeah, well, I mean, until very recently, it really
hasn't changed that much in Philadelphia. Okay.
We're still always getting, you know, kind of
80, 85 percent foreign travelers. But that has
changed the past couple of years. Just the past
couple. Pandemic, but also this year, especially,
of course, with what's going on with Trump. Yeah.
Yeah. So. Yeah. So. Yeah. So in Philadelphia,
I didn't really see it that much. There was always
the same thing. There was like certain times
a year we get more Americans and like. And for
me, it was, we always had just a boundary, you
know, kind of thing. It was 75 miles originally.
You had to prove that you live more than 75 miles
from Philadelphia, either foreign passport or
an ID with an address that's more than 75 miles
away. And that worked well, you know, kind of
thing. Like, I don't think, I mean, I always
have a saying that, like, not every American
is a problem, but every problem is an American.
You nailed it, you nailed it. And it's not because
they're American. Like if it was in Canada or
Australia, anywhere, the same thing. It'd be
like any locals, you know, kind of thing. You
know, it's nothing against Americans. It's just
locals in general, no matter where you are kind
of thing. And so I always had that, I had that
75 mile radius and that worked well. And I just
like, so we were pretty firm on that, you know,
and we're very firm on that. And cause I figured
we're not discriminating as long as we keep.
just, you know, apply that to everybody kind
of thing. So we, we had a fair amount of Americans,
especially when we had, there's, you know, big
conferences in Philadelphia, we get a lot of
conference goers and stuff. So, so, you know,
there were weeks where we'd be, you know, 40,
50 % American, you know, but, but generally in
the, you know, summer, that sort of thing would
be, you know, 80, 85 % foreign travelers. And,
but during the, but always wondered about that.
radius how important that that was you know the
75 radius um so during the pandemic at the start
of in march of 2020 uh when they shut the border
and then suddenly um everyone's canceling um
and i've never seen it before uh the printout
for the reservations we got in the past 24 24
hours empty not a single reservation And when
you see that, as a business owner, you panic.
It's like, well, how am I going to stay in business?
This is before they announced, you know, PPP
and all that stuff. And I was like, oh, my God,
you know, how are we going to stay in business?
So, you know, so I'm like brainstorming with
the staff and everything. And, like, maybe we
can get some students to, you know, who are still
in Philadelphia and, you know, and whatever and
house them. And so let's get let's get rid of
the 75 mile radius. Let's anybody let anybody
stay. We have no choice now, you know. OK, we
did that. And we still had, you know, some regular
guests, you know, like Europeans that hadn't
gone their flight home yet. You know, they're
still in the country, hadn't just made their
way home yet. So we still had, you know, women
from England and France and whatnot. And so anyway,
so within a day of. opening up to anybody can
check in we got like locals checking in and you
know they're going up to the women and saying
hey nice you know i kind of repeat the word that
they yeah a nice body part yeah you know yeah
i'm like no no no business and deal with this
no so i put up so i changed it to 40 miles so
let's narrow it down so i made it 40 miles uh
but we weren't getting anybody, still weren't
getting anybody. So then we wound up closing
anyways, you know, for, for a couple of months
and, and then reopened. And then we kept that
40 mile radius thing. And we've been at 40 miles
ever since. And that seems to be fine. For a
reason that 40 seems to work. So like one time,
you know, a woman made a reservation and I checked
to see what her distance was. And I looked at
the time instead of the miles by mistake. So
it said like 39, I thought miles was 39 minutes
away. And it was actually, she was about, you
know, 32 miles, 35 miles away kind of thing.
So since I had already told her she could stay
because I looked at it wrong, I let her check
in. Within five minutes, we had to check her
out, like kick her out because she'd insulted
half our guests and everything. But I think that
40 miles is about right. It seems like, you know,
anything within 40 is, like, bad news. Yeah.
And just not, yeah. So, but, yeah, definitely
affects the atmosphere in the hostel. You know,
it's so interesting in that, in our business,
that element. in playing with that and you know
how it can really affect the vibe of the house
and i i can recall when we were opening up a
location and someone was asking me like what
are you going to do to get the locals involved
to get the word out there and i was like wow
what a unique business we don't have any local
marketing, you know, like we actually don't allow
the locals in here, you know, and the person's
looking at me like, what the fuck? What are you
running? And I was like, yeah, I can see how
that must sound so bizarre, but like, no, there
is no local marketing. You're like, there's actually
a local defense. Right. Exactly. Yeah. No, I've
got the same thing. People approach me on advertising
and local. news magazine or whatever and i'm
like no i don't want the local you know and it's
so interesting like because i don't know if you
recall this but we were at the i think it was
called the american hostel conference in charleston
south carolina they had it for a few years vicky
would run it yeah and that was the first time
i ever heard of it you were in the room And amongst
all these hostels, they're like, has anyone thought
about this, you know, pandemic or disease in
China? Or I had a reservation canceled because
of it. Has anyone else had any issues? Does anyone
think it's going to? I remember everyone in the
room being like, I don't know what this guy's
talking about. But that has been, since I've
been in hostels, that has been like running hostels,
like for USA Hostels, it was always my biggest
fear was a pandemic. You were on it, man. You
were on it. I told Maria, the owner of San Diego.
She was with me at USA Hostels. I told her one
time. I think maybe there was a bird flu or talk
about maybe a possible bird flu. I'm like, Maria,
this might be it. I'm really worried about a
pandemic. She's like, that's ridiculous. And
I always knew like a pandemic would be like serious
trouble for it. But you know what? I just realized
how bad it was because if it really only affected
hostels, we'd all be closed. We'd be out of business.
But because it affected so many businesses, like
not just hostels, then we had like access to,
you know, PPP money and stuff like that. Yeah.
You know, so, you know, if it hadn't been as
far reaching or as impactful. It's true. We all
would have went down. Yeah. But, yeah, no, it's
always on my mind. Always. Now, I got to ask
you, but you brought up Maria. Now, Maria was
by the time we got to USA Hostel, she was in
your job. So you were like the number two for
many years for David. And then when you left,
she became your position. And that's when we
went there and worked there as young pups. But
what was Maria like when she was a young pup
when you first met her? That was I mean, this
is gold. Give us something. Yeah, no, I mean,
I like. So I interviewed Maria with, with Catherine,
who is one of our GMs at the time. And Catherine
didn't like her. And like, no, I like, I like
Maria. Like, and so, so, but yeah, no, Maria
was. I mean, you know, Maria, so she's like,
um, she hasn't changed. She's always, she's always
been the same, just, um, very strong woman, uh,
very intelligent, um, you know, um, and, uh,
you know, very, you know, uh, very tough, you
know, boxy as ever. Yeah. Um, so, uh, yeah, no,
um, uh, yeah, there's really nothing. You don't
know about Maria. It's always been the same.
She always spoke very highly of you. So it's
cool to have gotten to know you over the years.
So you've never seen Maria when she's had a few
drinks? Oh yeah, we have. Now, and then back
to the HI affiliate program, just before we wrap
up, I was curious to hear more about this from
you as we touched a little bit about it before.
Why did that go away? So their lawyers told them
they needed to make it go away. Oh, the liability
of it. Liability. Okay. And also just because
coming out of the pandemic, they had to cut a
lot of jobs, including the person whose job was
to go around and audit all the hostiles. Okay.
A lot of work. as many or more affiliate hostels
than actual hi hostels so yeah um so it's just
because they had to reduce manpower but also
the lawyer said it's too much reliability yeah
it seems like they they out of everyone it seems
like they took the hardest hit through the pandemic
maybe because of their size you know it's hard
to keep a beast like that afloat to navigate
through that just bad timing i mean i mean me
too i mean i just expanded you know if you yeah
there's going to be a pandemic in two years.
So like, uh, cause that was 2000, 2000, uh, 2017.
Yeah. Coming up. And then, you know, it was a
few years later. So I was just starting to like,
you know, um, you know, you know, break, you
know, kind of, uh, make some money. Yeah. Kind
of thing. Like I said, we were bursting at the
seams of the time. Yeah. Like, so we can really,
you know, but we're just started, you know, kind
of on a roll and then the pandemic happened and.
Now I'm carrying two buildings through a pandemic
instead of one. The bigger you are, the harder
it's going to be. Was there a moment in your
time running Apple or at USA Hostels where you
felt like the hostels are firing on all cylinders
and kind of why? Maybe some advice you could
give to other hostel owners from when? Like,
I don't know, maybe a year that it was working
the best or a strategy you felt it was working
the best or something that you, like, what do
you try to chase to get it, your hustle to perform
the best? I mean, these days it's really, you
know, it's a lot, now it's, you know, it's a
little harder just because of the, you know,
of the economic environment, you know, I've got
a thing with, and Fowler's not coming. Back in
the day, it seemed like, you know, you didn't
really have to do that. I mean, so originally
it was a lot of work because you had to send
a brochure. We were mailing brochures to, you
know, to Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Hawaii,
the Cook Islands, you know, and then all across
the United States and print advertising. And,
you know, and all these things are gone now.
The print advertising doesn't exist anymore.
You know, we don't do brochures anymore. No one
would put them up if you mailed them. to them.
Um, you know, so it's a lot easier now. You just
kind of rely on, you know, on Haas world and
book .com and, and Expedia and all those guys.
But, um, and, uh, you know, for me, it's just,
you know, making sure I got a good product and
got good reviews and, um, and, and, uh, just
hope people come. That's, you know, got to think.
So it's, um, and I, you know, it's the numbers
that, you know, keep going down. Um, at least
in Philadelphia, I don't know what it is like
everywhere else, but in Philadelphia, our numbers
keep going. Number of people keeps going down.
We were finally doing really well last year,
like in September, October, we're finally like
surpassing like 2019, you know, numbers like
as far as number of people we, you know, we kind
of raised our rates, you know? So we weren't
really going down in revenue per se, but you
know, cause we were able to raise our rates.
We kind of like stayed pretty steady. But it
was finally September and October last year in
November where we're actually number of people
was going up, you know, kind of thing. Like,
great. Finally, it's good. You know, kind of
thing. And then but then Trump happened and everything
off. Yeah. So now it's back to like, yeah, we're
down. We're down. You know, we're down 20 percent,
close to 20 percent in August. We're down almost
20 percent in September. uh you know october
probably down like 25 it's getting seems to be
getting worse you're gonna think so yeah we need
those international travelers to come back yeah
so i mean what saved us we would have been uh
you know worse off if it wasn't we had fifa we
had a bunch of fifa oh fifa club matches we had
like eight of them so uh so that saved our june
and and beginning of july um Cause we, we had
a good February Eagles one. So we had the Eagles
parade, you know, so we had February did pretty
well because the Eagles and also because, you
know, nothing much had been affected yet by Trump
yet. So February was still really, really good
for February. And March wasn't too bad, but,
but in Philadelphia, the hotels had already been
like, we're down like in March, we're down like
15, 20%. We're somehow kind of breaking even.
So we're like, below what we probably would have
been. But the hotels were already being affected
by kind of people boycotting the United States
and whatnot. And then, you know, we did okay
in April just because of just things going on
in the city. But then FIFA really helped us in
June because June started off pretty slow. And
then we had FIFA games and we picked up and we're
like had a really big June because just because
of FIFA. And then we had a July 4th game. So
it was big, you know, semifinal or whatever.
So it was big. And but then suddenly, like last
half of June, just like nobody kind of thing
was dead. And then in August, we just get lots
of camp counselors every year. So that didn't
change because they still came and worked in
the camps. We had tons of people from from England,
from UK coming to work at camps on the East Coast.
um so we get tons of camp counselors so thank
god for that because we were down you know 15
17 in august but we would have been down way
more if it wasn't for the camp counselors um
yeah good markets and yeah connecting with events
great great strategies there yeah yeah certain
things that that have helped us but because it
could have been a lot worse and um so we'll see
how it goes going forward but it's not uh not
looking great yeah well that would actually kind
of to To close things out, I was curious to see
what your thoughts are. Yeah, let's close out
on a pressing note. Yeah. I'm going out of business,
people. Bye. What do you see in your thoughts,
the industry? in the next coming years, how do
you, for the remainder of the, you know, the
Trump administration pretty much is kind of on
the, what do you, do you think it's just going
to stay in its stagnated place that it's in,
or could it conceivably continue to get worse?
What are your thoughts? Everyone has a different
opinion. I mean, it's not going to get much better.
The worst, the best I can hope for is like not
getting much worse, I think. Yeah. Yeah. You
know, it depends on, you know, they're talking
about requiring, a $5 ,000 to $15 ,000 deposit
to the country. If they implement that, I don't
know what's going on. We're already struggling
without that kind of thing. I don't know. I would
not expand right now. It's interesting times
for sure. And we all have to kind of band together
and navigate through the best we can. Will you
be attending the North American Hostel Association
Conference in Montreal, April 2026? I'm from
Montreal. Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to go.
But I mean, I had to lay off my managers in August.
So now I'm running everything myself. So we're
low staff. It's just me now as far as managing
the place. So it's hard to get away. I'm going
up to Canada Halloween weekend for my dad's 90th
birthday. Oh, cool. I can get away for a few
days. We'll see. This will be a good test. If
I can get out, you know, if I come back and the
hostel is still standing, then maybe I can do
it again in April. When is it? April or May?
April. I think it's 28th of April. Oh, it's 28th
of April. Okay. I saw James Lane from the, what
do you call it? Hawks on West Virginia, uh, Harper's
ferry. Uh, yes. And he was like talking about
it. Like, yeah, I think it's April 28th. And,
um, so anyway, uh, let's go. I remember he's
not going, uh, but I'm hoping, I'm hoping to
go, but yeah, it's just really hard for me now
to get away from, uh, from here. Uh, not just,
I'm just trying to also cut all expenses, you
know? Yeah. Um, so it's also the cost of, of
going and stuff. I have to think about it. So,
um, So we'll see. But I'm hoping to. I was like,
when they said Montreal, I was like, oh, man,
it sucks. I don't know if I can go. No, but,
you know, that's good. But in that right there,
that is good advice for other hostile owners
out there listening of how to navigate. And one
of the best ways is to tighten the belt and get
ahead of your expenses. And even though sometimes
it's sad of letting people go, but we did the
same thing of when the pandemic hit, we really
started to tighten the belt and get rid of accessory
things and whatnot. And I used to have a beachfront
apartment and a club membership to everything.
club in town and now i don't anymore and people
ask like when you get back your beachfront apartment
i you know probably under the next administration
yeah yeah if we survive until then no but good
advice you know keep it thin as we move forward
and uh yeah but thanks so much mark for for joining
us on the podcast and uh We hope to see you in
April up in Montreal so you can keep me out of
trouble when I do get into trouble up there.
But if not, keep trucking out there in Philly.
All right, will do. And yeah, thanks for having
me and great talking to you. Yeah, thanks, Mark.
Have a good day. Bye. All right.